34 ms·
It's an absolute shitstorm that electric vehicles are taking the phone route to near no ownership
by savant_penguin 5y ago
It's an absolute shitstorm that electric vehicles are taking the phone route to near no ownership
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- gameswithgo 5y agoall vehicles
- MBCook 5y agoHave any other OEMs pulled back paid for features that previously worked on an EV?
- dghlsakjg 5y agoToyota had to rescue themselves when they threatened to retroactively make remote start a subscription service
- bragr 5y agoAnd to be clear it was keyfob based remote start they wanted to charge for, not app/internet based.
- HWR_14 5y agoAre you sure? I heard the opposite - it was only the app/internet version and the keyfob continued to work.
- bragr 5y agohttps://www.thedrive.com/tech/43636/toyota-reviewing-key-fob-remote-start-subscription-plan-after-massive-blowback https://www.thedrive.com/tech/43636/toyota-reviewing-key-fob...
- HWR_14 5y agoWow. I thought it was sketchy that they were charging to recoup (times a huge multiple) their minor server/bandwidth costs. Not that.
- mlindner 5y agoTo be clear, there was not a "paid for feature" in this case. He did not lose anything he had paid for.
- HWR_14 5y agoYou have to have paid for FSD to be in the beta for FSD. I feel you could probably make a case that you paid to be in the beta.
- chayesfss 5y agoEmployees get it for free, no longer an employee, no more fsd. Edit: I see he was in fsd beta, maybe he can just try to get his score up high enough, everyone who’s in the beta had to have a high enough score that I imagine he bypassed as an employee.
- HWR_14 5y agoEmployees got FSD as a bonus after meeting certain work goals. They didn't (to my knowledge) get provision FSD before then. FSD has is a product, and one sold as a likely asset (robotaxis!) Its equivalent to a company trying to claw back vested RSUs
- rcMgD2BwE72F 5y agoHow do you know? We do know Tesla has offered FSD to employees for free, for quite some time. https://www.bloombergquint.com/technology/tesla-enlists-employees-to-be-full-self-driving-beta-testers https://www.bloombergquint.com/technology/tesla-enlists-empl... >Any worker who buys a Tesla and agrees to share 300 to 400 hours of driving feedback with the company’s Autopilot team by the end of next year won’t have to pay for full self-driving -- an $8,000 saving -- or for a premium interior, which normally costs $5,000, Musk wrote.
- mynameisvlad 5y agoNot in an EV (well, maybe in their i* models) but BMW got a lot of flak for their various subscription announcements. https://www.forbes.com/sites/alistaircharlton/2020/07/02/bmw-wants-to-charge-you-a-subscription-for-your-heated-seats/?sh=7708f3b13c64 https://www.forbes.com/sites/alistaircharlton/2020/07/02/bmw... https://9to5mac.com/2019/12/04/bmw-will-no-longer-require-a-subscription-to-use-carplay-in-some-cars/ https://9to5mac.com/2019/12/04/bmw-will-no-longer-require-a-... And I think there's a few others.
- cvak 5y agoyeah, recently toyota: https://www.thedrive.com/news/43329/toyota-made-its-key-fob-remote-start-into-a-subscription-service https://www.thedrive.com/news/43329/toyota-made-its-key-fob-... Merc: https://www.thedrive.com/tech/41678/full-rear-wheel-steering-on-mercedes-eqs-will-be-575-annual-subscription-in-germany-report https://www.thedrive.com/tech/41678/full-rear-wheel-steering... but yeah, almost all carmakers make remote functionality a subscription. Usually with first 3-4y free of charge.
- nunez 5y agoFord disabled the MyFordMobile app in Fusion Energi and C-Max Energi vehicles because they were using old 3G modems as late as 2021 and AT&T decommed 3G in February. They had customers go into dealers to replace the modem at their own cost. MyFordMobile was a subscription-based app, though some owners had very long trial periods.
- kwhitefoot 5y agoTesla Norway fitted a 4G modem in my 2015 Model S unasked and free when the Norwegian telecoms providers started decommissioning 3G. They just tacked it on to the work order when I took the car in for some unrelated work.
- brianwawok 5y agoRight. Tesla service has been good for a lot of people. I’ll take this while the hacker news Luddites try to find some euro car with manual windows they can “own”
- lpcvoid 5y agoWhy are you hostile to the idea of owning what you paid for, and being against the never stopping train of companies who want to extract rent from you?
- dntrkv 5y agoBecause it’s a classic HN overreaction. Most of the cars sold today don’t have anything that would be remotely disabled. This thread literally started from someone being removed from a beta due to them being fired. It has nothing to do with Tesla disabling some paid feature. It’s just classic HN FUD that pollutes literally any thread about anything car related. It’s tiring.
- taneq 5y agoIt's not uncommon hereabouts to be all in on the everything-as-a-service-and-customers-have-no-rights mindset. Which is fine, I guess, for a fart button app but I'm not so excited about it leaching into my critical infrastructure (software OR hardware).
- mlindner 5y agoIf you were on an internal beta program of Apple/Google and as an Apple/Google employee badmouthed the product you were testing, would you call it a "shitstorm" if they revoked your access and fired you?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- ClumsyPilot 5y agoYes, personal retaliation against criticism is about as 'proper' behaviour as is pissing in public It should be criminal when the product has safety inplocation
- mlindner 5y ago> It should be criminal when the product has safety inplocation I think you meant "implication". And no there is no "safety implications" in this case. This is just someone violating their NDA while also badmouthing their employer and being fired for it. > Yes, personal retaliation against criticism is about as 'proper' behaviour as is pissing in public There is zero evidence of any "personal retaliation" here.
- whoisburbansky 5y agoIf it was a beta that was accessible to the public and that I paid for, hell yeah.
- mlindner 5y agoYou cannot buy your way into the beta. You need to request access.
- whoisburbansky 5y agoI had it in my head somehow that the only version of the FSD out was the beta, didn’t realize the beta was a layer on top of the paid FSD package. Cutting off beta access seems reasonable here if the paid FSD package wasn’t rescinded.
- StanislavPetrov 5y agoOne of the reasons I'll never buy an EV or any car that has a computer that phones home or can be remotely controlled, no matter how expensive used cars get.
- namlem 5y agoYou could always modify it to install custom software. It exists already.
- Bancakes 5y agoShow me 1 (one) ECU running mainline Linux.
- ashwagary 5y agoCustom software for Tesla that removes phone home and all remote capabilities? If so, link please.
- dncornholio 5y agoI would not trust custom software in a thing like a car.
- marssaxman 5y agoI would not trust any software in a thing like a car. Custom software not inherently more likely to suck than manufacturer software, which is undoubtedly garbage. (I say this as a former firmware engineer.)
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- hertzrat 5y agoWe might be in the market for a car soon. What companies actually sell you cars that you own and control these days?
- CurriculuMortae 5y agoLada
- ChuckNorris89 5y agoNot sure if you're joking but the Lada Niva Taiga sells quite well in the Austrian countryside where you want a car to beat through the mud and snow. The most modern feature on it is probably electric windows.
- sofixa 5y agoDacia, a low-cost sub-brand of Renault. Note: Renault's future is a bit dubious, because they had to break up with Nissan, and the merger with FCA failed, so they're mostly going at it alone, and they're IMHO too small for that. However, they already have a few EV models, including the most popular EV in Europe for a few years ( Zoe), so maybe they're not that badly placed, and in any case the French government is unlikely to let them fail.
- lnsru 5y agoDo you have more details about Nissan-Renault split up? Because I heard, that they are just doing fine and Mitsubishi joined them too.
- wallaBBB 5y agoThey are not doing well, but neither could afford a split at this moment, although Carlos Ghosn case is a big issue in their relationship. The split is not realistic to happen in the next few years, but some type of restructuring where Nissan would get more control/independence is likely. Not sure where the data came from in the top comment, but also Renault didn't have any talks with Stellantis AFAIK, and not sure such merger would be approved atm.
- nunez 5y agoI see a car as an appliance that should be replaced and recycled rather than fixed for significant issues. change my mind.
- Bancakes 5y agoModern cars have reached their endgame for at least a decade. There is nothing to replace and recycle. There are no major upgrades. The whole point of electric vehicles is, excluding the battery, they have almost nothing to wear out relative ICE. The best way to upgrade a EV is to slap a modern battery pack in it like putting a 5000 mAh battery in a OEM-2500mAh phone.
- whatever1 5y agoHave you ever owned a car? The last car that I had to sell because I could not afford fixing had a $5,000 repair quote. Not because of the ice engine. Not because of the gasoline. Because the wire harness was corroded. Stop dreaming that electric cars do not need maintenance. Maybe not as regular maintenance as ice cars, but definitely they will be eoled in the same lifespan as ice cars.
- Bancakes 5y agoI have no idea how you rack up a $5000 bill despite regular maintenance. Was that a used sports car?
- flyinghamster 5y agoRust. In the northern US, we salt the bejeezus out of our roads in winter, and it eats our cars. Modern cars are far better in this regard, but not immune to salt cancer.
- Bancakes 5y agoI live at the sea and often just straight up spray wd-40 underneath. It's literally its designated purpose.
- benhurmarcel 5y agoThere are other EV brands than Tesla