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We did this before. 46 years ago. And it went badly. https://www.mercurynews.com/2016/10/30/the-year-daylight-saving-time-went-too-far/ https://www.mercurynews

We did this before. 46 years ago. And it went badly. https://www.mercurynews.com/2016/10/30/the-year-daylight-saving-time-went-too-far/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2016/10/30/the-year-daylight-sav... Why do we have such short memories?

nemo44x 5y ago
Because our politics are in many ways a clown show. It probably polls well when you ask regular people who haven't considered why we do this. That they feel sad because the Sun goes down at 5:00AM when it's cold but don't consider that without this then the Sun won't come up until 8:30AM.
- joezydeco 5y ago
  "In a Roper poll conducted in February and March, just 30 percent remained in favor of year-round daylight saving time, while a majority favored switching times again. Louis Harris polling in March showed just 19 percent of people said it had been a good idea, while about twice as many — 43 percent — said it was a bad one." https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/03/15/no-more-changing-clocks-history-says-be-careful-what-you-wish-daylight-saving-time/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/03/15/no-more-c...
  - hannasanarion 5y ago
    A poll conducted during the first winter of the first year where the status quo was different, and where institutions hadn't yet made changes to their procedures and schedules to prepare for it is not a true poll of the issue.
- nightski 5y ago
  Or that everyone except yourself isn't an idiot and they did in fact consider it and don't view that worth the trouble.
  - nemo44x 5y ago
    Nah, it's an emotional thing for a lot of people who haven't considered it - they just hate that it gets dark early and it makes them sad. I've had this conversation with a lot of people and almost all of them agree it's a good system when they understand why we do it. Especially for people in the Northern parts of the country.
    - nightski 5y ago
      Hmm, I live in the northern part of the country and that isn't my experience at all. But I'm sure you have surveyed a statistically significant amount of the population, not just your little bubble.
      - twiddling 5y ago
        More Americans live South then 50 years ago : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mean_center_of_the_United_States_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mean_center_of_the_United_Stat...
    - falcojr 5y ago
      I've considered it. I live in the northern parts of the country (WI). I have children that walk to school. Anything other than permanent DST is absolutely asinine to me. Most people do things in the evening. Very few people do things in the morning other than get ready for and go to work/school. Why would anybody choose to have light during that time and not later in the day?
MBCook 5y ago
This is exactly what I was wondering. Why do we think it will go better this time? Also isn’t 9 months a relatively short warning given all the systems that will need updates?
- geerlingguy 5y ago
  Timezone changes are practically a weekly thing... 9 months is a lot more warning than many other changes.
  - MBCook 5y ago
    Around the world perhaps, but time zones in the US have been quite static for a long time right? I wonder how many US based systems aren’t well tested/prepared for a possible change.
- ncmncm 5y ago
  Everybody carries a phone that knows what time it is. And, looks the same sun-up or sun-down. Nobody needs to look out the window anymore.
JoeAltmaier 5y ago
Oh the children! Give me a break. Go to school in the dark, or come home in the dark. Do that one time of year, or another. It all comes out in the wash.
- nemo44x 5y ago
  It's unsafe. A child is more likely to be hit by a car when it is dark. With the current system they can leave for school and come home when there is light.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - r0m4n0 5y ago
    Shouldn't they just go to school later when it's darker? They could come up with a policy to start school later and get out later in the winter or something. Why does the entire country have to modify their clocks for a few minority use cases?
  - nullc 5y ago
    Sure, then move the start times of the school to a safe time. The time zone changes kill people.
  - moron4hire 5y ago
    Is it society's time-keeping system that is at fault, or the school system's start time? Cuz I kinda think organized school systems with rigid start times are a later development.
  - richardwhiuk 5y ago
    That's not true in the northern states anyway.
    - ghaff 5y ago
      I have a feeling quite a few people commenting don't live in northern states and thinks there's plenty of light to go around if it were just aligned right.
yupper32 5y ago
That article doesn't say why it was a bad idea. Are we really rejecting this because it'll be dark at 7:35am? Sorry, but that's not even close to a compelling reason not to do this.
- prakhar897 5y ago
  Yes, it will be. Schools should adjust time according to the season. Time shouldn't adjust itself according to the school.
  - twiddling 5y ago
    Most parents of school age children in the US are dual income. School times are tied to before and after school care to support the parents employment
    - prakhar897 5y ago
      When daylight savings time is implemented, SCHOOLS, EMPLOYERS AND ALL OTHER COMMERCE times are changed. Thus, When it is removed, all places will change time accordingly.
- nemo44x 5y ago
  It absolutely is. And the Sun won't come up until 8:30AM. No one wants their first couple hours of the day to be darkness. Secondly, it's more dangerous for kids walking to school. And lastly we use more energy since a larger part of our day is lived in the darkness for most people.
  - yupper32 5y ago
    > No one wants their first couple hours of the day to be darkness. Why? What are you using the first couple hours of your day for except to get ready for work? Complete waste to do that in the daylight. > Secondly, it's more dangerous for kids walking to school. We should be pushing back school starting times anyway. If they're old enough to walk to school, then they don't need their parents to wait for them to leave before going to work, so that typical argument goes out the window. > And lastly we use more energy since a larger part of our day is lived in the darkness for most people. A weak argument IMO. Studies are not conclusive on the actual savings, and most of the ones that are out there say they save minimal energy. Besides, I think the mental health benefits of having more useful hours in the evening are worth the extra 0.5-1% energy usage.
scotuswroteus 5y ago
Because of paywalls, like the one preventing public access to the parade of horribles that is apparently detailed in this article I can't read
mbesto 5y ago
FTA > By fall, the dark mornings were apparently wearing on the American people. This is the reason for "it went badly"? Since that article didn't address it, what exactly happened when we didn't have DST?
HWR_14 5y ago
It worked fine 46 years ago. People bitched then "about the children" while insisting that schools couldn't start later. That's just crazy. What is different this time? It wasn't bad before, that's what.
- colinmhayes 5y ago
  Schools can't really start later. Parents need to drop kids off before they start work. I guess we could have everyone start work an hour later too, but I don't see that happening.
  - WillDaSilva 5y ago
    > Parents need to drop kids off [...] This is far from universal, and is a problem we should address wherever it is the case. It's bad for plenty of reasons, with one of the largest being that it prevents us from having schools operate during times that work well for children and teens.
    - colinmhayes 5y ago
      I'm not sure how you plan to solve this. Even if a school bus came to every kids front door the parent would still need to be there to ensure the kid gets on. If both parents need to be somewhere for work the bus needs to show up early enough to give them time to commute.
      - bradlys 5y ago
        Uh - no. You don’t have to be there to ensure the kid gets on. You teach your kid how to be responsible and a good person so that they get on without you having to helicopter over them for everything. What the F is wrong with Americans. Srsly.
        colinmhayes 5y ago
        The reality is that enough Americans won't accept this to make it a viable solution.
noahtallen 5y ago
You’d have to be over 60 years old to have any memory of that, and even then you would have been a kid at the time. Plus your memory gets worse as you age. So why would anyone here have a memory of that experience? The only memories we have are of DST messing up our sleep schedules twice a year for no apparent benefit to us. But more to the point, the article doesn’t really talk about why it went badly. In fact, the only thing it mentions (kids getting up too early for school) is a very solvable problem and one which should be solved regardless of DST.
davidsawyer 5y ago
Because a lot of us are only half that old?
ibejoeb 5y ago
How did it go badly?
anotherman554 5y ago
"WE" didn't do this 46 years ago. I wasn't born then. Hopefully "we" can do a better job of handling the change this time.

nemo44x 5y ago

Because our politics are in many ways a clown show. It probably polls well when you ask regular people who haven't considered why we do this. That they feel sad because the Sun goes down at 5:00AM when it's cold but don't consider that without this then the Sun won't come up until 8:30AM.

joezydeco 5y ago
"In a Roper poll conducted in February and March, just 30 percent remained in favor of year-round daylight saving time, while a majority favored switching times again. Louis Harris polling in March showed just 19 percent of people said it had been a good idea, while about twice as many — 43 percent — said it was a bad one." https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/03/15/no-more-changing-clocks-history-says-be-careful-what-you-wish-daylight-saving-time/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/03/15/no-more-c...
- hannasanarion 5y ago
  A poll conducted during the first winter of the first year where the status quo was different, and where institutions hadn't yet made changes to their procedures and schedules to prepare for it is not a true poll of the issue.
nightski 5y ago
Or that everyone except yourself isn't an idiot and they did in fact consider it and don't view that worth the trouble.
- nemo44x 5y ago
  Nah, it's an emotional thing for a lot of people who haven't considered it - they just hate that it gets dark early and it makes them sad. I've had this conversation with a lot of people and almost all of them agree it's a good system when they understand why we do it. Especially for people in the Northern parts of the country.
  - nightski 5y ago
    Hmm, I live in the northern part of the country and that isn't my experience at all. But I'm sure you have surveyed a statistically significant amount of the population, not just your little bubble.
    - twiddling 5y ago
      More Americans live South then 50 years ago : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mean_center_of_the_United_States_population https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mean_center_of_the_United_Stat...
  - falcojr 5y ago
    I've considered it. I live in the northern parts of the country (WI). I have children that walk to school. Anything other than permanent DST is absolutely asinine to me. Most people do things in the evening. Very few people do things in the morning other than get ready for and go to work/school. Why would anybody choose to have light during that time and not later in the day?

MBCook 5y ago

This is exactly what I was wondering. Why do we think it will go better this time? Also isn’t 9 months a relatively short warning given all the systems that will need updates?

geerlingguy 5y ago
Timezone changes are practically a weekly thing... 9 months is a lot more warning than many other changes.
- MBCook 5y ago
  Around the world perhaps, but time zones in the US have been quite static for a long time right? I wonder how many US based systems aren’t well tested/prepared for a possible change.
ncmncm 5y ago
Everybody carries a phone that knows what time it is. And, looks the same sun-up or sun-down. Nobody needs to look out the window anymore.

JoeAltmaier 5y ago

Oh the children! Give me a break. Go to school in the dark, or come home in the dark. Do that one time of year, or another. It all comes out in the wash.

nemo44x 5y ago
It's unsafe. A child is more likely to be hit by a car when it is dark. With the current system they can leave for school and come home when there is light.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- r0m4n0 5y ago
  Shouldn't they just go to school later when it's darker? They could come up with a policy to start school later and get out later in the winter or something. Why does the entire country have to modify their clocks for a few minority use cases?
- nullc 5y ago
  Sure, then move the start times of the school to a safe time. The time zone changes kill people.
- moron4hire 5y ago
  Is it society's time-keeping system that is at fault, or the school system's start time? Cuz I kinda think organized school systems with rigid start times are a later development.
- richardwhiuk 5y ago
  That's not true in the northern states anyway.
  - ghaff 5y ago
    I have a feeling quite a few people commenting don't live in northern states and thinks there's plenty of light to go around if it were just aligned right.

yupper32 5y ago

That article doesn't say why it was a bad idea. Are we really rejecting this because it'll be dark at 7:35am? Sorry, but that's not even close to a compelling reason not to do this.

prakhar897 5y ago
Yes, it will be. Schools should adjust time according to the season. Time shouldn't adjust itself according to the school.
- twiddling 5y ago
  Most parents of school age children in the US are dual income. School times are tied to before and after school care to support the parents employment
  - prakhar897 5y ago
    When daylight savings time is implemented, SCHOOLS, EMPLOYERS AND ALL OTHER COMMERCE times are changed. Thus, When it is removed, all places will change time accordingly.
nemo44x 5y ago
It absolutely is. And the Sun won't come up until 8:30AM. No one wants their first couple hours of the day to be darkness. Secondly, it's more dangerous for kids walking to school. And lastly we use more energy since a larger part of our day is lived in the darkness for most people.
- yupper32 5y ago
  > No one wants their first couple hours of the day to be darkness. Why? What are you using the first couple hours of your day for except to get ready for work? Complete waste to do that in the daylight. > Secondly, it's more dangerous for kids walking to school. We should be pushing back school starting times anyway. If they're old enough to walk to school, then they don't need their parents to wait for them to leave before going to work, so that typical argument goes out the window. > And lastly we use more energy since a larger part of our day is lived in the darkness for most people. A weak argument IMO. Studies are not conclusive on the actual savings, and most of the ones that are out there say they save minimal energy. Besides, I think the mental health benefits of having more useful hours in the evening are worth the extra 0.5-1% energy usage.

scotuswroteus 5y ago

Because of paywalls, like the one preventing public access to the parade of horribles that is apparently detailed in this article I can't read

mbesto 5y ago

FTA > By fall, the dark mornings were apparently wearing on the American people. This is the reason for "it went badly"? Since that article didn't address it, what exactly happened when we didn't have DST?

HWR_14 5y ago

It worked fine 46 years ago. People bitched then "about the children" while insisting that schools couldn't start later. That's just crazy. What is different this time? It wasn't bad before, that's what.

colinmhayes 5y ago
Schools can't really start later. Parents need to drop kids off before they start work. I guess we could have everyone start work an hour later too, but I don't see that happening.
- WillDaSilva 5y ago
  > Parents need to drop kids off [...] This is far from universal, and is a problem we should address wherever it is the case. It's bad for plenty of reasons, with one of the largest being that it prevents us from having schools operate during times that work well for children and teens.
  - colinmhayes 5y ago
    I'm not sure how you plan to solve this. Even if a school bus came to every kids front door the parent would still need to be there to ensure the kid gets on. If both parents need to be somewhere for work the bus needs to show up early enough to give them time to commute.
    - bradlys 5y ago
      Uh - no. You don’t have to be there to ensure the kid gets on. You teach your kid how to be responsible and a good person so that they get on without you having to helicopter over them for everything. What the F is wrong with Americans. Srsly.
      - colinmhayes 5y ago
        The reality is that enough Americans won't accept this to make it a viable solution.

noahtallen 5y ago

You’d have to be over 60 years old to have any memory of that, and even then you would have been a kid at the time. Plus your memory gets worse as you age. So why would anyone here have a memory of that experience? The only memories we have are of DST messing up our sleep schedules twice a year for no apparent benefit to us. But more to the point, the article doesn’t really talk about why it went badly. In fact, the only thing it mentions (kids getting up too early for school) is a very solvable problem and one which should be solved regardless of DST.

davidsawyer 5y ago

Because a lot of us are only half that old?

ibejoeb 5y ago

How did it go badly?

anotherman554 5y ago

"WE" didn't do this 46 years ago. I wasn't born then. Hopefully "we" can do a better job of handling the change this time.