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Container loaded with discarded lithium batteries catches fire enroute to port
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- unsupp0rted 5y ago> The bill of lading listed “computer parts,” not lithium batteries, making responding to the fire more challenging. > the shipper failed to properly placard, label, mark and package the lithium batteries, and identified the cause of fire to be residual charge/full circuit, which led to a thermal increase.
- pizza 5y agoFree startup idea: through-the-wall lithium battery sensing, for safety checks throughout the supply-chain..
- newsclues 5y agoI was thinking rethinking the supply chain to avoid shipping batteries assembled in cars, or having ships designed for lithium battery fires.
- anthropodie 5y agoI just hope in decades to come I don't see this headline "Turns out Li ion batteries are worst than fossil fuels for future of Earth" Pretty sure over a century ago nobody thought that these Fossil fuels are going to screw the Earth so bad. Our civilization has come so far but we do have stupid tendency to abuse natural resources and let future generations deal with consequences.
- willis936 5y ago>Pretty sure over a century ago nobody thought that these Fossil fuels are going to screw the Earth so bad. They did. https://qz.com/817354/scientists-have-been-forecasting-that-burning-fossil-fuels-will-cause-climate-change-as-early-as-1882/amp/ https://qz.com/817354/scientists-have-been-forecasting-that-...
- anthropodie 5y agoSure scientists do. But we the collective fails to adapt
- fkarg 5y agotwo thoughts: - there's people trying to make this case currently - when we scaled fossil fuels, terraforming was pure science fiction only, not something anyone realistically expected. it only started to become visible some 50 years later. I don't think we'll make the same mistakes, but there'll always be new and more expensive mistakes to make.
- iseanstevens 5y agoLithium iron phosphate (LiFePo4) is significantly safer in this aspect.
- axiolite 5y agoAs are NiMH batteries.
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- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- BXLE_1-1-BitIs1 5y agoWatch battery fires have taken down a number of aircraft.
- kortilla 5y ago“Caused to land safely”.
- musha68k 5y agoI wonder what percentage of flights do have something like this kit onboard? https://cellblockfcs.com/libik-dry-fire-suppression-kits-cabin-flight-deck/ https://cellblockfcs.com/libik-dry-fire-suppression-kits-cab... Also what happens when the fire is only noticed after burning in eg an overhead compartment? Fire on flight really is a terrible scenario.
- Maursault 5y agoAirliners actually have crashed due to lithium battery fires. [1] [1] https://apnews.com/article/709370476f2645f299beb6c8c66d216b https://apnews.com/article/709370476f2645f299beb6c8c66d216b
- Dylan16807 5y agoI think the comments above were talking about carry-on batteries, which are a different level of concern. Five of the planes in your link had shipments of batteries and the other one was a passenger with 25+ batteries in the cargo hold.
- lnsru 5y agoThere was a story about ship full of shiny new Volkswagens sinking to the bottom of the ocean: https://m.slashdot.org/story/396813 https://m.slashdot.org/story/396813 Bad source, German newspapers had more detailed reports in German. Basically burning ship with electric cars can’t be saved. That’s probably also valid for discarded batteries.
- CoastalCoder 5y agoMaybe a stupid question, but does a Li-ion battery need to be charged in order to burn like this? I'm not talking about the batteries that start the fire. Obviously they won't cause an electrical fire if they're not charged. I'm talking about the other batteries nearby that get heated up by the initial fire.
- philipkglass 5y agoMost lithium ion batteries contain mixtures of liquid organic carbonates as electrolytes. They range from moderately to very flammable. Here's some vendor information on dimethyl carbonate, one of the more flammable electrolyte components: https://smc-global.com/dimethyl-carbonate/ https://smc-global.com/dimethyl-carbonate/ https://smc-global.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/M3574_DIMETHYL_CARBONATE_616-38-6_GHS_01262021.pdf https://smc-global.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/M3574_DIME... These liquids can burn regardless of the battery state of charge.
- userbinator 5y agoIncidentally, besides the flammability, the electrolyte is otherwise quite harmless. It's comparable to ether, alcohol, or acetone.
- snovv_crash 5y agoThere are other components in the battery which are both toxic and corrosive to electronics. Please be careful of any broken batteries and if there is a fire don't breath the fumes!
- devwastaken 5y agoLithiums are nothing to treat carelessly. Friend of mine had a good quality drone battery catch their room on fire. Could not put out the battery, had to scoop it and put it outside until it stopped. The only reason it didn't burn the house down was due to flame retardant materials things are made out of nowadays and they caught it fast enough. Manufacturing by it's nature has defects, get metal containers for your lithium charging and don't cheap out on batteries. If you have old lithium batteries from laptops, drones, etc, dispose of them at a local transfer station properly. Or at a minimum locate them in something metal that has a lid in an area where open flame would not readily catch something on fire.
- walrus01 5y agobased on your post, not sure if this was a consumer drone battery like a DJI or similar with its own enclosure, battery charging dock/station, or a DIY hobbyist/quadcopter battery such as you might see if you bought a 6s 4000mAH lipo for a 8" FPV quadcopter. for the latter, the people I know who build and use such things always charge their batteries in an attended environment in some sort of mostly-fireproof setup. one has a small corner of their tech/hobby workbench that has a few 12" ceramic floor tiles stuck to a box like enclosure open on one side. since lipos are damaged and degrade if held for long times at 4.2V full state of charge, it's recommended for the health of the battery to only charge it almost immediately before you want to use it. ideally you would do that while nearby and paying attention, not leaving it totally unattended. example would be something like this https://chinahobbyline.com/shop/detail/RcCar-22.2V(6S)/CNHLg+plus4000mah22.2v6s70clipobatterywithxt90plug https://chinahobbyline.com/shop/detail/RcCar-22.2V(6S)/CNHLg... the quality of the battery charger also matters. and be absolutely certain you're using the correct goal float voltage setting, charge rate in amps or C rating, etc. https://www.racedayquads.com/collections/isdt-products/products/isdt-air8-500w-20a-1-8s-dc-smart-charger https://www.racedayquads.com/collections/isdt-products/produ... i have also heard of people who use a surplus steel ammo can (plentiful and cheap in many parts of the USA) for battery charging and lipo storage.
- bigiain 5y ago> a DIY hobbyist/quadcopter battery such as you might see if you bought a 6s 4000mAH lipo for a 8" FPV quadcopter. 6S 4000mAhr is getting seriously into "do not fuck around with this" territory. they deserve to be treated like and equivalent weight of gasoline. My quadcopters these days are mostly small to tiny. (It's been years since I flew anything above the 250g size that changes the rules here.) In the past, I've flown medium/big hexa and octocopters with 7S 5800mAhr batteries (two of them on the big Octo) Those batteries never came in my house. They are stored and charged in a besser block and concrete tile enclosure in my garage which has a direct metal vent pipe to the outside. They get transported in the car in an ammo can half full of sand, never more than two in the one can. I've only once ever had one of those go off on me - in an ammo can while charging it at the field. Burying it with sand didn't put it out - it just happily burned away and got hot enough to distort the ammo can. I do not ever want that to happen anywhere near anything flammable that I care about. I still have 4 of those big packs, I use them on an electric bicycle. I kinda hope that if I ever get mown down in traffic while riding it, it'll set fire to the car that nailed me... I'm much less safety-nazi with my smaller lips batteries though. I store and charge 3 and 4S batteries in the 500 - 2200 mAhr range in my office - in metal tins with small-sh vent holes and watchable lids. I mistreat those batteries somewhat - my fastest quad can draw ~120A at full throttle on a fresh off charge pack (note that you do that for long, it's pretty much vanished straight up in about a second and a half when you do that. It's pretty much impossible to fly that one LOS, without the goggles I'd just lose it instantly.)
- noodlesUK 5y agoThe real crime here was lying on the bill of lading to get around shipping restrictions. Lithium batteries do sometimes cause fires, and sometimes big ones, but we have some safety mechanisms to help with that kind of thing. You can’t put any of them in place if you lie about what you’re shipping
- nimbius 5y agoP
- nightfly 5y agoIt doesn't have to be malicious to be incredibly reckless
- mabcat 5y agoI'm familiar with the industry. Everyone involved knows that you don't move so much as a mobile phone's worth of lithium without following a procedure. In my experience small violations are wilful laziness, large violations are to avoid the signficant costs involved with dangerous goods documentation, packaging, and handling. This container didn't get onto the truck without several people deciding not to do things they're trained and certified to do.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago>. Everyone involved knows that you don't move so much as a mobile phone's worth of lithium without following a procedure. In my experience small violations are wilful laziness, large violations are to avoid the signficant costs involved with dangerous goods documentation, packaging, and handling. This container didn't get onto the truck without several people deciding not to do things they're trained and certified to do. Sure, ok <rolls eyes>. Everyone who has experience in any industry knows that things get sloppier as you go down market. And it doesn't really get any lower than recycling/scrap. From my experience in industrial recycling (not consumer electronics) I'd bet those "several people not doing their jobs" are all one administrative assistant that fills out all the paperwork the same way every time unless told otherwise.
- walrus01 5y agoShould be a criminal act for whoever mis-declared the contents on the bill of lading.
- sometimeshuman 5y agoFrom personal experience, someone who orchestrates this sort of crime sets up a fall guy. The person who mis-declared the contents is probably just a pawn. It is surprisingly easy to manipulate young ambitious people, ideally from poor immigrant roots who have been preconditioned to observe a code of silence, if the senior person implies it is a routine business practice. Then they get caught, the fog lifts, and they blame themselves because the prosecutor/investigator has a rock-solid case.
- walrus01 5y agoGoogle "total reclaim Seattle" for some similar examples
- jakear 5y agoThe real question is who is underwriting the cleanup effort. If the orchestrator is paying the insurance bill, the problem may solve itself.
- throwaway0a5e 5y agoThe thing is, 99.99% of the people calling for blood are satisfied with the fall guy's blood.
- exdsq 5y agoYet more evidence that k8s is too complex
- WalterBright 5y agoIs a lithium battery that is discharged still dangerous?
- sephamorr 5y agoYes, but less so. Much of the chemical energy and ignition potential is removed by discharging the battery, but many of the remaining components (electrolyte as an example) are still flammable.
- WalterBright 5y agoWill it still self-ignite, though?
- jeroenhd 5y agoIf punctured or heated sufficiently it definitely can self-ignite, especially if the battery had some wear and tear. The resulting fire (or explosion) will be a lot less spectacular than if the battery were fully charged, but all lithium batteries can be dangerous if treated badly.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- yosito 5y agoThis made me think of my growing pile of electronics with lithium batteries collecting dust in my basement. These are things that still have some value, but low enough value that they're hard to sell online. Any tips on what to do with them?
- _nalply 5y agoDepends where you live and what stuff you have. In Switzerland I would call the local «Werkhof» and ask what to do. Probably just bring them and declare as electronic waste. Perhaps try to discharge them first by putting them into electronics and turning on, but it depends what lithium batteries you have, and this might be even dangerous. Just do a general cleanup. This might need a lot of time, and if you are really afraid, do this outside when it's dry outside. Avoid to handle batteries which are inflated or show some damage.
- RiverBucketShoe 5y agoI feel like discharging the batteries before amassing them like this would solve these kinds of problems. Yes I know it's a hard problem, but still.