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On the other hand, this observation must be qualified as not necessarily generalizable to all teenagers and parents. Sometimes a person may grow up and realize

• warner25 5y ago
  True, and I wouldn't limit this to only be about my own parents, but more broadly about all kinds of people like teachers, coaches, aunts and uncles, older co-workers, people in the news... even slightly older siblings who had kids a few years before I did.
• notriddle 5y ago
  Older people knowing better than younger people is one of those heuristics that's almost always right [1]. It's hard to tell the difference between a stupid kid and a stupid parent, because stupid parents are rare. Yet people keep searching for stupid parents, because it's really important to find them when they exist. There's a constant rate of kids pulling false alarms on their parents, but you don't want to ignore them, because if one of them is for real, you don't want to be the asshole that ignored all the warning signs. [1]: https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/heuristics-that-almost-always-work https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/heuristics-that-almost...
  • nicoburns 5y ago
    Maybe I was just unlucky, but that isn't my retroactive judgement on my childhood at all. My experience was one of mostly adults making me do something that is really down to subjective preference because that was their preference. And now that I'm an adult and can make my own choices I'm much happier about it.
    • ghostpepper 5y ago
      If a rational and emotionally mature adult still believes that the decisions their parents made were bad then there’s a much higher chance that they’re correct (compared to when a kid believes such things)
      • mwcremer 5y ago
        Especially in like circumstances; that is, with regard to their own children.
    • plandis 5y ago
      I’ve recently become a new father and have listening to a Cat Stevens song that your post reminded me of: “If they were right, I’d agree, But it’s them they know, not me.”
    • kikimora 5y ago
      I think is how it is supposed to be - parents making decisions for their kids using their best judgement (preferences). It is ok for kids to disagree when they grow. It is less ok to make a problem out of it. Most parents really try hard to make rational decisions using information and background they have. Criticizing them for making mistakes does not make sense to me. We all humans and we make mistakes.
      • pdonis 5y ago
        > I think is how it is supposed to be - parents making decisions for their kids using their best judgement Yes. > (preferences). No. The parent is supposed to use their best judgment about what is best for the kid given the kid's reasonable long-term preferences [1]--not the parent's preferences. Or, to put it another way, what is best for the actual kid, not what would be best for the parents if they were in the kid's position. The two are often very different. [1] I say "reasonable long-term preferences" to make it clear that I am not saying parents should indulge a kid's preferences for sugary foods instead of nutritious ones, lots of TV instead of a better mix of intellectual activities, and no exercise. I'm talking about cases where the adult the kid will grow up to be will genuinely say they are different from the parents in this respect and wish their preferences as a kid had been respected.
  • fallingknife 5y ago
    > Older people knowing better than younger people is one of those heuristics that's almost always right Up to mid 20's, yes. > stupid parents are rare Not even uncommon.
    • jl6 5y ago
      > Up to mid 20's, yes. Are you by any chance over 25 but under 40? :) I think it’s inarguable that experience is valuable, and age correlates very well with experience up to that mid-20s point, but around that point people start to settle into a groove and the extra n years experience is actually just the same year’s experience repeated n times.
    • RobertMiller 5y ago
      The mid-20s transition is the most obvious, I think simply because teenagers so often incredibly hot headed. But I believe emotional development continues throughout life as people acquire more experience with age (at least until senility kicks in.)
      • fallingknife 5y ago
        I think so too, but it's much more gradual, and therefore, not uncommon that the age vs age maturity level heuristic fails for a given pair of people.
  • financetechbro 5y ago
    Stupid parents are very much everywhere
    • s1artibartfast 5y ago
      But stupidity is relative and stupid children are more common. The heuristic can be reworded as adult parents are more knowledgeable and capable than children. Put the average child in the position of the average parent and you will see the difference.
      • nicoburns 5y ago
        > The heuristic can be reworded as adult parents are more knowledgeable and capable than children. I think that's true in general, but when it comes to making decisions about the child I think that has to be weighted against another heuristic that's often but not always true: that people know what's best for themselves better than other people do. I think people often wrongly neglect that principle when it comes to children assuming that they don't know what they're talking about without taking the time to listen and understand their point.
      • TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
        "Children" aren't a homogenous group. Neither are "parents." And "stupid" is not a single metric. Pre-teens don't have practical adult skills and have poor or non-existent emotional regulation. Teens have some adult skills, are learning or experimenting with others, and have patchy self-regulation. So it makes perfect sense not to allow kids to do things that are dangerous to others, and to limit what teens can do with strong guide rails. But when it comes to world view and insight, teens can certainly be wiser than their parents. They may not know what to do with their insight, but they're not wrong - just inexperienced. Meanwhile many adults are hopelessly naive and may be actively self-harming, especially politically and culturally. And when adults have addiction and/or Cluster B issues, even fairly young kids are more likely to be reliable and responsible.
        • kajaktum 5y ago
  • laserlight 5y ago
    > stupid parents are rare How did you arrive at this conclusion?
    • wutbrodo 5y ago
      I had the same reaction, but from context, I think what he meant was "cases where the conflict is due to the stupidity of the parent instead of the stupidity of the kid". The base case is that kids are stupid, because kids are supposed to be stupid.
  • andrepd 5y ago
    You are making very sweeping claims with next to no evidence (ironically, a very un-wise thing to do!). The more I observe the more I understand good parents are exceedingly rare. The vast majority of parents fuck up one way or another. Which shouldn't necessarily be surprising, parenting is very hard!
    • notriddle 5y ago
      Of course, if you're an adult of average intelligence, then 50% of parents will be dumber than you. Parents who are dumber than you are would not be rare at all. But I'm not comparing adults with other adults. I'm comparing adults with children. I would be surprised to find a child that was smarter than their parents; it happens, but it's rare.
• beebeepka 5y ago
  That is an excellent point. Yes, usually parents do "what is best for their children". However, good intentions do not guarantee good results. It took me 20 years to undo some of the more direct damage done to me by forcing me into a path I didn't want. Parents being completely wrong for the right reasons is very much a thing. That doesn't even count psychological damage almost guaranteed to lurk in there pretty much forever
  • Ntrails 5y ago
    I think people find it very easy to judge parenting from the outside and/or with hindsight, whether their own or other peoples. I know that my children will wish I did things differently. Whether that is location, discipline, activities, internet access etc etc. I know they will wish I made more reasoned choices in the moment. That I was never tired, distracted, frustrated. That I let them spend their time as they wished not as I feel is best for them. Parenting is a parade of tough choices using vague heuristics and life experience. Being well intentioned is a bloody good start.
    • turkishmonky 5y ago
      I fully expect to make many mistakes as a parent, and there's a lot of things I could have done better. As a child though, many decisions my parents made were with the view of demonizing outside groups and "protecting" their kids from any contrarian viewpoints. Catching up socially took years, and there are some extreme harms that I still deal with to this day. My goal is to make sure my kids have a well-rounded social life, a consideration for others, and an understanding of a gamut of ideas.
    • zamfi 5y ago
      > Being well intentioned is a bloody good start. This sadly depends a lot on the community. Being well-intentioned but misinformed in fundamental ways can cause a lot of harm.
    • beebeepka 5y ago
      I am glad you had a nice childhood. Now, would you try to be as understanding to children as to you to fellow parents. Being well intentioned and caring is the bare expected minimum. Why do we need to repeat this?
• turkishmonky 5y ago
  Those types of generalization have always been troublesome for me - While I admit I was an idiot as a kid, the respect I had for my parents has decreased even further the older I get. I understand more and more how harmful their behaviors were for me as a child, and have been intentional about not falling into the same behaviors with my kids. Some parents are just really really inadequate or abusive as parents.
  • s1artibartfast 5y ago
    The heuristic can be reworded as adult parents are more knowledgeable and capable than children. Put the average child in the position of the average parent and you will see the difference. Think of how abusive the average parent is, then imagine them trying to parent with 10-20 years less development.
    • kelnos 5y ago
      I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Are you suggesting that we should excuse parental abuse, because a child would be a worse parent than an adult?
      • pc86 5y ago
        And somehow also strangely arguing that most parents are abusive?
        • s1artibartfast 5y ago
          Not the best phrasing on my part. Better phrasing would be "consider how likely the average parent is to be abusive" That said, all parents make bad decisions to the detriment of their children. The severity and frequency is what constitutes abuse vs mistakes.
      • s1artibartfast 5y ago
        not at all. Some people are objectively bad parents. I'm just that in general, the heuristic is accurate that parents have better decision making than their children. The very real counter examples (eg abuse) don't negate the trend.
• yojo 5y ago
  My dad’s dad hit him with a belt when he misbehaved. My dad spanked me with his hand when I was a toddler. Not overly hard, and not after age 4, but still. Do I think my dad could have made better parenting choices? Yes. Am I happy that he made substantial advances from what he learned as a kid? Also yes. A small number of parents are legitimately abusive and should have their kids taken away. Some parents are amazing and talented care givers. Most are just muddling through and fall somewhere in between. As a parent I am doing my best to keep raising the bar - no corporal punishment over here! But I am sure my children will still find myriad ways in which I have failed them as a parent. Kids don’t come with a manual, and “professional advice” is astoundingly inconsistent/conflicting. I think most parents are doing their best, it is just a hard and poorly understood problem.
  • jcims 5y ago
    Totally agree. My mom might get roasted for the few times she swatted me on the ass, but nobody would say a word about her moving my brother and i to a place five hours away from our dad and huge extended family. I would take the former every day if it would have prevented the latter.
    • dorkwood 5y ago
      A similar thing happened to me. Except my parents decided, somehow, that moving one of us to live with my mom and the other to live with my dad five hours away was a good idea. I've tried to forgive them for doing this, but I'm not making much headway.
      • moviewise 5y ago
        A helpful way to deal with childhood trauma, I've found, is to take a wide perspective. The speech that Tom Hanks as Walt Disney, who was abused by his father, gives in the 2013 movie "Saving Mr. Banks" beautifully encapsulates this idea and eloquently delivers this advice: overcome your past. Here is the full speech: https://moviewise.wordpress.com/2015/05/27/saving-mr-banks/ https://moviewise.wordpress.com/2015/05/27/saving-mr-banks/
• roenxi 5y ago
  These two observations can be synthesised into recognising that most people are poor at empathy and haven't seriously thought through the question of why other people do what they do (fun fact, a skill that can actually be practised by arguing about politics). Most parents are probably bad at parenting, based on the observation that most people are bad at most things and there isn't much in the way of training available compared to the size of the task. But most youths are even worse parents and have wildly misunderstood the constraints, goals and threats involved.
• tempestn 5y ago
  And unfortunately sometimes people grow up with parents who are quite lacking, then themselves fall into the same patterns, and think, "Oh, now I get it," while taking away exactly the wrong lesson. I know people who grew up in an abusive household, then eventually went on to have kids, and different siblings from that same family ended up going in completely different directions, from carrying on many of their parents' hated behaviours on one side, to being excessively permissive on the other. (And one ended up being a great parent, having put serious thought into their childhood and what they wanted to do differently.)