13 ms·
Apple turns monitor height adjustment into a $400 upsell
- newaccount2021 5y ago
- ilikepi 5y agoThe new and novel thing is that there is a $400 upsell at all. I believe all of the previous Apple displays (Pro XDR excluded) have only come with a fixed stand (though some could accept VESA mount adapters).
- mcraiha 5y agoAre there other expensive VESA compatible stands for monitors?
- falcolas 5y agoPersonally, I prefer desk arms. They're easily portable to other locations, and give you a huge amount of flexibility for positioning your monitor exactly where you want it. The free desk space below the monitor is just icing on the cake.
- acdha 5y agoYes, and plenty of cheap ones, too — you have a pretty good range based on features and looks. This kind of complaint is pretty predictable: most people who want one will drop $100 on a normal VESA stand or arm, but the Apple one is definitely competing with people who either want the matching designer image or simply aren't that price sensitive. Here's an example of Herman Miller, which is definitely competing for the same kind of buyers with a $450 monitor arm: https://www.hermanmiller.com/content/dam/hermanmiller/documents/pricing/PB_THR.pdf https://www.hermanmiller.com/content/dam/hermanmiller/docume... Now, they do at least discount that a bit so a good question is whether you'll see the Apple ones showing up at less than list price: https://store.hermanmiller.com/office-furniture-desk-accessories-organization/flo-monitor-support/8982436.html?lang=en_US https://store.hermanmiller.com/office-furniture-desk-accesso...
- barkerja 5y agoAre these arms large/long enough to allow for a 27" to go portrait?
- acdha 5y agoThere are definitely arms available for almost any size or weight range you can imagine, but the heavier weight-rated ones tend to be pretty utilitarian since there's really no way around the physics of a weight on a lever arm.
- binarymax 5y agoI prefer to put my monitor on top of my $500 hardcover set of TAOCP.
- hughrr 5y agoI use the Knoll Sapper arms. They are fully articulated and rotatable. You can get them on eBay for not much if you lurk.
- numpad0 5y agoA proprietary tilt and height adjustable stand is usually included in the price…
- tlbsofware 5y agoNot sure about expensive but I do know there are a lot of cheap ones that you should be careful of, some say “height adjustable” but have a screw and hooks that you manually have to move. That could mean a monitor could get dropped or someone pinched during adjustment.
- quxpar 5y agoMy kanto dms2000 is my favorite thing on my desk.
- wellthisisgreat 5y agoI looked at it, and seems nice, but I don't quite understand - did you have to drill the desk to install it?
- layer8 5y agoI can recommend the Ergotron monitor arms.
- llampx 5y agoMaybe we can pull all the threads complaining about Apple's pricing into one thread. A complaint about the price of a TB4 cable: https://www.businessinsider.com/the-thunderbolt-4-pro-versions-pricer-at-129-or-159-2022-3 https://www.businessinsider.com/the-thunderbolt-4-pro-versio...
- JohnTHaller 5y agoI still can't figure out who would buy this given that name brand, active, 2m Thunderbolt 4 cables go for under $60. And generic brand 2m cables that are tested and well reviewed for under $40.
- edgarischatting 5y agoThis is a five-foot-long PCIe x4 cable - GPU extensions are four inches. It can feed two 4K displays at 60Hz. It can transfer data faster than an NVMe drive can store it. The fact that this is even physically possible is astounding.
- postalrat 5y agoI guarantee it's not the wire that's making it possible.
- JohnTHaller 5y agoIt is. But it's also possible with the $40 and $60 cables I mentioned. They're all active Thunderbolt 4 40Gb/s cables that measure about 2 meters long.
- kristjansson 5y agoI’ll happily pay a lot of premium for a long “just works” TB3/4 cable so I can pretend I live in a world where cables aren’t themselves computers and don’t have complicated sets of features they do or don’t support
- JohnTHaller 5y ago
- Hamuko 5y agoThe worst part of the new display is that the stand is integrated - you cannot change your mind after you buy it. So if you buy a fancy monitor arm a year after you got your Studio Display with a height-adjustable stand, you'll have to buy a new Studio Display, except this time with a VESA mount. If you insist on getting a Studio Display, the best option to future-proof your purchase is to get the one with the VESA mount, because at least that way you can have a free choice of stands/arms.
- thebean11 5y agoThat's a pretty mind boggling decision. These things live on your desk, adding a minuscule amount of bulk to support both mounts wouldn't hurt, and is one less SKU to manufacture..
- kipchak 5y agoPerhaps the intention is to get you in the door for $1600, but have the SKU most people wind up buying be $2000.
- adanto6840 5y agoIndeed. I was actually about to buy one, they are within the same price realm as other good+ 5k monitors. I was reading through the stand offerings, debating between the height-adjustable or "not" (ie just the standard stand & most likely using my cheap monitor arm) -- then I realized/read the "integrated & can't be changed" and my mind was boggled. I abandoned at that point. Not having the ability to remove the stand, like virtually all other monitors, is really just anti-customer IMO. If I get the stand & later want to VESA-mount it, what, I have to sell the monitor to buy a VESA version?! Absurd & really disappointing, especially for a monitor product that otherwise seemed relatively well-positioned.
- nowherebeen 5y agoI feel like these monitors will depreciate in value much faster than their M1 chips. It feels like only yesterday, flat screen TVs were a few thousand dollars. Now, you can get a decent one for a few hundred.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- CGamesPlay 5y agoWell, those ones you are talking about are ad-supported. I would not buy an ad-supported display at any price point, so a more reasonable comparison is the “commercial display” flat screens, which are still actually pretty expensive.
- samsolomon 5y agoNot sure that is the case. Thunderbolt Displays, the previous equivalent, had extremely little depreciation over their life span—even when higher resolution monitors started to become mainstream. I suspect used versions of these monitors will retail near the new value for a long time.
- mschuster91 5y ago> Thunderbolt Displays, the previous equivalent had extremely little depreciation over their life span I recently bought one used. These things got manufactured from 2011 at a MSRP of 999$ IIRC and today still are worth 600€, excluding shipping, on ebay.
- alphabettsy 5y agoMaybe. The non-Retina Apple Cinema Display which I believe is over a decade old still sells for $200-300+ used. The Thunderbolt Display even more. The 5k iMac came out in about 2015 and still no other company sells an equivalent 5k monitor other than the LG/Apple monitor.
- saiya-jin 5y ago
- danielktdoranie 5y agoYeah, Apple's stuff is expensive. This is still alarming to someone? If you're looking for inexpensive, you don't go to Apple. That's not what they do, or have ever done.
- apetrovic 5y agoIt's not alarming, it's just an excuse for a clickbait title. Yesterday that monitor didn't even existed. Today half of internet acts like life on Earth is impossible without it.
- JaimeThompson 5y agoIsn't "half the internet acts...." the same sort of emotional appeal that click bait is?
- kobalsky 5y ago> Yeah, Apple's stuff is expensive I don't think that's the issue. If Apple just priced this monitor at $2.4k and it included the stand no one would have cared.
- fckgw 5y agoIt comes with a regular stand, it's just not the height adjustable one. Why does everyone think this thing doesn't have a stand? Does no one read the article?
- pcmoney 5y agoApple can do this because nobody else makes a high quality monitor that doesn’t look terrible. In nice offices, each chair is a couple thousand each. Full designs easily $50k+. Theyre not going to mess up a such a thoughtfully designed aesthetic with some slab of black plastic and an Amazon Basics stand (which is what I use) to save $1-2k.
- jdrc 5y agoIt isn't so much about aesthetics, but the look screams 'apple'. Apple is an aspirational lifestyle brand
- hughrr 5y agoApple also have a warranty and service which is worth more than toilet paper unlike the other brands.
- TAKEMYMONEY 5y agoRepairs outside of the standard warranty on my Apple stuff is usually shackled to expensive paid warranty upgrades and restocking fees. For example, AppleCare+ for this $2k monitor costs $149, and there's a $99 service fee for screen damage or enclosure damage, and a $299 fee for other accidental damage.
- FpUser 5y agoLooking at the picture it is just plain boring monitor (not that there is anything wrong about it). I fail to see a single bit of "thoughtfully designed aesthetic".
- signa11 5y agoi have been using eizo for past couple of months and i have found them to be just fabulous. perhaps you can try it out and see if it works for you too ?
- ksec 5y ago
- wellthisisgreat 5y agoA premium screen with a 60hz refresh rate in 2022 is, frankly, ridiculous
- Karunamon 5y agoNot for the intended audience. Pixel density > refresh rate outside of gaming.
- ciupicri 5y agoColors too. Maybe also dark black.
- wellthisisgreat 5y agoSure it's not for gaming, otherwise there'd be questions about response time and such. However, 60hz vs 100hz does make a noticeable difference for scrolling or 3D work or slow-mo video. Even 90hz would be good enough of an improvement. Edit: Oh i didn't mean reducing the PPI in favor of the refresh rate. I meant keeping the >4K and the PPI but pushing the refresh rate above 60hz.
- postalrat 5y agoTry 20hz for a bit and you might change your mind on "Pixel density > refresh rate outside of gaming".
- layer8 5y agoIt’s a Thunderbolt limitation at 5K. https://www.datapro.net/techinfo/thunderbolt_info.html#q26 https://www.datapro.net/techinfo/thunderbolt_info.html#q26
- o_m 5y agoThe limit is ~90hz, and they already have tech for pro motion (variable refresh rate) in macOS.
- 5y ago
- pif 5y agoApple can put any price stick on their monitors, until enough idiots accept to buy them.
- somebodythere 5y agoAs someone who takes video conferences from my desk pretty often I would buy this monitor for the audio/camera (VESA mount version since I already have an ergotron for my monitor) but I don't think I can go back to non-high refresh rate monitor.
- hughrr 5y agoI'm going to buy this, once I've seen one in person. But as always I'm going to get a VESA mount version because every damn monitor vendor either ships a stand that is too short or one that is too expensive and inflexible and nothing between, Apple included. I'd rather use a third party Knoll one.
- hericium 5y agoWhy the outrage? Apple is a designer brand. You are paying mainly for a new version itself, not its features.
- lotsofpulp 5y agoOutrage leads to clicks leads to ad impressions leads to revenue. Standard operating procedure for websites that sell ad spots. Common formula is <big company> does this or that, even though it is not of consequence to anyone or noteworthy.
- narrator 5y agoThe buyer for this is a rich person who doesn't like to tinker with computers. They walk into an Apple store and say, "I want the best."
- gaze 5y agoI'd bet they completely overengineered it with something that feels smooth and has the right amount of friction and balance and has a ton of precise parts that drove the price up, and will probably wear out in a very unpleasant way within 4-6 years of purchase.
- theonemind 5y agoI think this works like the opposite of a loss-leader, a product sold at a loss to draw people into a store, and/or like minor upsells at restaurants, like guacamole on the side. I got this theory from the Apple Explained youtube channel when he talked about the $600 wheels for Mac Pros Apple needs some high end items to keep its luxury appeal, but they really want the middle market without losing some perceived luxury appeal. So you have a few items with crazy prices that won't sell well to keep up your brand image. Interesting that these land on not-necessarily-deal-breaker things, like can you roll your computer? Can you adjust your monitor height? Extras, stuff you could live without or work around (especially being able to roll your mac pro) I don't think they expect to make a serious profit on the option. It's some kind of microeconomics thing. It might make the non-adjustable option look more attractive price-wise.
- dangus 5y agoThis product is absolutely for the same kind of people who shop at Restoration Hardware, Gucci, Cartier, etc. If it was for creative pros, it would have HDR. A $1600 monitor with no HDR, can you believe it? You can buy an entire laptop with an HDR mini-LED monitor from Apple for very nearly the same price. The base model iPhone mini can shoot in HDR but you can't play it back on the brand new Apple StUdIo MoNiToR from 2022.
- apetrovic 5y ago> A $1600 monitor with no HDR, can you believe it? Is there a good alternative for reasonably calibrated 27" monitor, with 5K resolution, integrated (96W) USB-C hub that have camera, good speakers and HDR? How much that monitor costs?
- dangus 5y agoHere's a list: https://www.displayninja.com/mini-led-monitor-list/ https://www.displayninja.com/mini-led-monitor-list/ ASUS ProArt is a good start: https://www.asus.com/Displays-Desktops/Monitors/ProArt/ProArt-Display-PA27UCX/ https://www.asus.com/Displays-Desktops/Monitors/ProArt/ProAr... - 4K HDR, 576 zones of local dimming - 90W power - Dolby Vision, HDR-10 - Works with Mac or PC so you aren't screwed if you have a multi-platform environment, includes DisplayPort, HDMI, USB-A (4x), USB-C, headphone jack For the same price as the Studio Display with stand upgrade ($1999) it seems like a better monitor. I guess it depends on whether you'd rather have 5K over 4K compared to HDR and mini-LED. For video production something like the ProArt seems like a no-brainer. Speakers and a good camera are not selling points for displays. A solid webcam costs $50. Professionals aren't going to rely on monitor speakers, they're gonna spend <$100 and get something like the Sony MDR7506 studio monitors. The Apple Studio Display is 100% made for your VP of Sales to put in his home office and look at.
- GeekyBear 5y agoMuch more interesting from a technical standpoint: >how would you even top a single 432mm2 chip that’s already pushing the limits of manufacturability on TSMC’s N5 process? By enabling the M1 Ultra’s two dies to transparently present themselves as a single GPU It’s a problem that multiple companies have been working on for over a decade, and it would seem that Apple is charting new ground by being the first company to pull it off. https://www.anandtech.com/show/17306/apple-announces-m1-ultra-combining-two-m1-maxes-for-even-more-performance https://www.anandtech.com/show/17306/apple-announces-m1-ultr...
- oneplane 5y agoYep, even the infinity fabric isn't "as good as" the Ultra inter-die connection. AMD, Intel and others have been trying for a while, but so far I only know about Cerebras simply making a single-wafer "chip" to actually pull it off. Of course, that is completely impossible to do at scale, trashing an entire wafer is extremely expensive and not something you're going to do at a 100million+ device sales target. I am super curious what the Asahi project and others are going to pull from underneath the marketing and macOS-visible parts, the M1 adventures alone were very interesting to follow.
- GeekyBear 5y agoHector Martin is expecting only minimal changes to be needed for the M1 Ultra. >Chances are our kernel will Just work on M1 Ultra with just device tree changes, might not even need any m1n1 changes. https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1501271229763706882 https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1501271229763706882
- oneplane 5y agoI just remembered that they suspected this interconnect last year when they were probing AIC2 and found essentially a full unused half of the controller specifically designed for multi-die scenarios. Makes sense they can now enable that functionality with minimal changes.
- zackmorris 5y agoI'm not even that unusually tall and without investigating this even at all, I'm more than 50% confident that the height adjustment will still be a foot too short even on its highest setting.
- D13Fd 5y agoI have zero problem with this. They designed a nice stand, it's expensive, so what? If you don't want to pay for it, just buy a VESA arm instead. They also offer a VESA adapter instead of the stand, for the same price. That's great IMO, and a big improvement to previous Apple monitors where you had to buy the stand with the monitor and then spend an extra ~$50 for the VESA adapter. On the other hand, it would be even better if they just built the VESA mount into the monitor itself like everyone else. I guess they just can't figure out a good way to cover the screw holes.
- MrRiddle 5y ago> I guess they just can't figure out a good way to cover the screw holes. You can’t be serious?
- D13Fd 5y agoI am serious. Apple has been selling ridiculous VESA adapters for a decade now, and most other manufacturers just build them into the monitors. Literally the only reason I can think of for this is that they don't want unattractive screw holes in the monitors. Do you have a better explanation?
- MrRiddle 5y agoM O N E Y
- D13Fd 5y agoWhen they offer the adapter as a free alternative to the stand?
- MrRiddle 5y agoTell me, what are your options if you want height adjustable standalone monitor with ability to Vesa mount it if you want? You know, features that every premium monitor on the market has. Oh right, you have to buy height adjustable stand and Vesa adapter as well? $600 extra
- adolph 5y agoHeight (bottom position): 18.8 inches (47.9 cm) Height (top position): 23.0 inches (58.3 cm) Top to bottom travel: 4.2 inches (10.4 cm) Travel cost: 95.24 $/inch (38.46 $/cm)
- dvnguyen 5y agoWhen something is ridiculously expensive, it’s usually because you’re not the target customer. I’m a programmer and my I’ve had hard times explaining to my wife why did I need a $300 keyboard. I guess no one here would complain about $300 mechanical keyboard.
- neogodless 5y agoI agree with your main point. I'm a programmer using a $60 non-mechanical ergonomic keyboard. I would complain about a $300 mechanical keyboard. First when I pay for it, and again when I had to hear all that racket! :) (I know in theory Cherry MX Clear/Brown are a bit quieter? But I'll stick to non-mechanical, low cost keyboards for now.)
- DennisP 5y agoI use Cherry Browns, and they are reasonably quiet. When I worked in a cubicle I had no complaints. They have the ergonomics relevant to me: my finger joints were getting sore. I got the mech and trained myself to type without bottoming out the keys much, and that fixed it.
- shikoba 5y agoI would complain. I bought the cheapest mouse and keyboard. I don't need high-tech stuff for coding. But it's your choice, not mine.
- postalrat 5y agoI think a lot of programmers prefer not to use a mechanical keyboard.
- whywhywhywhy 5y agoDon't really understand their engineering hype and price over that hinge. Seems worse than what the lamp iMac had but costs almost half the price of what the lamp iMac was.
- gumby 5y agoIf you use your own monitor arm, this is actually a decent price (just slightly high) for a high DPI monitor. There are damned few on the market. The $400 stand is very expensive, but consider it like to popcorn at the theatre: it permits differential pricing. What I do find absurd is that this appears to be the just-discontinued 27” iMac without the computer…and that was only $200 more! (And don’t forget you have to supply your own polishing cloth too!)
- throwaway73838 5y agoMaking you pay for shit that should be free is basically Apple’s entire business model. But we still do it. “Charge me harder, daddy. You know I like it when you make me pay.”
- dangus 5y agoDon't focus on the stand. Focus on the fact that this is a 60Hz, no mini-LED, no-HDR monitor for $1600. Don't forget that the predecessor Mac-specific product, the LG UltraFine 5K, was only $1300 and included an adjustable stand that disconnected without any need to buy a specific VESA version or buy any sort of adapter. They're showing clips of people producing video content on this monitor. Who is shopping in this budget range doing serious video work without wanting the ability to work with HDR video? The Mac Studio is a decent value, but this product really isn't. It seems to me that Apple designed this monitor for wealthy non-creators who want to sit on Zoom calls with a shiny metallic monitor that looks nice next to their Restoration Hardware dining room set. You can tell that's the case because that's where all the investment in features went: to the webcam, and to the speakers. What creative professional do you know that wants speakers in their monitor at all?
- w0mbat 5y agoI think the unadjustable monitor stand is actually illegal to deploy in a workplace in many countries. Health and safety standards require monitors to be height and tilt adjustable in order to be ergonomic and not cause neck strain and other workplace injuries.
- ineedasername 5y agoWhat are the markets for such high priced monitors? Are they more color accurate, when properly calibrated? (though you can find cheaper monitors in the pro-color realm too)
- sph 5y agoThis comment section is the definition of Stockholm Syndrome, unyielding brand loyalty and sunk cost fallacy. Some people are ready to defend whatever outrageous decision Apple makes, yet if it were any other company they'd complain loudly. This is why Apple can offer such a service at ridiculous prices.
- tsujp 5y agoI’m not an Apple apologist, I don’t even have an Apple monitor. My mantra for any monitor I would buy, including the ones I have now, is: if it doesn’t have a VESA mount and optionally the ability to purchase without a stand… then I don’t buy it. I suggest people start doing the same. Proper monitor arms are usually around $100 (AUD) and better than almost all stands that come with almost all monitors on the market. However egregious Apples or anyone else’s pricing for a stand becomes it literally doesn’t matter because you don’t buy it and use the VESA mount instead.