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China to provide 5 mln yuan worth of humanitarian assistance to Ukraine
- sgpl 5y agoWondering if any geopolitical experts on HN can take a stab at explaining this move? From my rudimentary understanding, China was (has been) allied with Russia behind the scenes in this move against Ukraine. Is this a hedge to maintain a good reputation and a good working relationship with the world by using this action as a: "Hey, look we helped Ukraine in its time of need"? > China has refused to describe Russia's activities in Ukraine as invasion.
- irl_ 5y agoChina and Chinese Red Cross are different things.
- sgpl 5y agoYeah I'd like to think that too, but the article mentions in its first paragraph that this aid was announced by the 'Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian.' So in this case it doesn't seem like they're different.
- WinstonSmith84 5y agonot a geopolitical expert, but apparently China is trying to show a neutral stance. Or at least attempt to not antagonise either party https://chinadigitaltimes.net/2022/03/minitrue-turn-down-temperature-strictly-control-content-on-ukraine-situation/ https://chinadigitaltimes.net/2022/03/minitrue-turn-down-tem...
- raxxorrax 5y agoMaybe they realized that it surprised people that they did support Russia the directly. Many had no illusions about that, but would have expected their statements towards the invasion to be more diplomatic.
- pvaldes 5y agoI assume that Chinese oligarchs had taken good lessons about the fate of Russian oligarchs properties in the western countries (and specially about their money movements being watched more closely).
- podviaznikov 5y agoNot an expert. But this is tiny amount of money. So probably a formality. I know individuals who raised more for Ukraine from their friends. Also Red Cross seems to be dead. Many people on the ground said that in the past 8 years in Ukraine it did nothing. Will need more research but it seems to be highly ineffective organization that spends a lot of money and doesn’t produce much. So sending this amount of money is basically nothing and looks like PR move.
- powerapple 5y agoIt is not money, it is products needed for refuges.
- trasz 5y agoIn which case it might be worth orders of magnitude more - basic stuff in China is way cheaper than in the West, and here they can also bypass all the usual middleman.
- powerapple 5y agoExactly. I don't understand west's point. They are not going to fight, and they will just supply weapon to make the war bloodier. And now they are pushing Poland to have direct conflict with Russia.
- trasz 5y agoThey supply weapons so that Ukraine can defend. And one of the things we now know is that Russian army is a laughing stock. They can be dangerous to civilians though, thus the need for SAMs.
- mekster 5y agoYeah, China is like, "Don't look at us as if we're on the bullying side, oh hey, I just happen to have a cookie, look."
- kstenerud 5y agoRussia surprised China with its invasion timing & planning, in particular the mismanagement that turned this from a regional thing into a major international incident, which is now causing a lot of embarrassment due to their mutual cooperation. They don't want to discard friendship with Russia over this, but at the same time it looks bad all around, right at the time when China is pushing hard to become the new moral, economic, and cultural center of the world. China isn't going to assist Ukraine directly, of course, nor is it going to push hard to back Russia. But backchannel humanitarian aid always looks good, and can't be criticised. Plus it helps to drive the point home that Putin has embarrassed them and they don't like that.
- CapricornNoble 5y agoLargely agree with your post except: My understanding is Xi knew of the invasion well-ahead, and actually told Putin to delay it, to not interfere with the Beijing Olympics. This might partly explain the logistical problems the Russians are having: when they first started massing combat power, they didn't plan to have 150,000+ guys sitting around in the winter for quite this long.
- kstenerud 5y agoYes he did know, sorry if I wasn't clear enough. The issue is that it was bungled horribly and turned into an international incident when it shouldn't have. TBH I'm still surprised Russia didn't employ salami tactics, taking the breakaway regions while holding troops on the Ukrainian border as a deterrence to interfere, and to warn them away from NATO. But then again, word on the street is that Putin really did believe that Ukrainians consider themselves Russian at heart and would welcome him. ... Or maybe he just got impatient?
- FinanceAnon 5y agoHow could it not have been turned into a major international incident? It feels weird even calling this 'an incident'. It's not like they invaded by mistake
- actuator 5y agoThis is Chinese Red cross and not China but this is very similar to what one more friend of Russia, India is doing. They have also sent in humanitarian aid. Humanitarian aid helps you support people and not help in the defense of Ukraine, so Russia won't mind. Also, compared to China's GDP, this is nothing when you compare it to other countries.
- throwaway4good 5y agoGiven that India, China and a bunch of other countries do not condemn the invasion nor participate in the sanctions against Russia, most of the world, in terms of population, is actually not on the "western side" of this conflict. China in general is concerned with trade.
- trasz 5y agoUS wouldn’t join Chinese sanctions either.
- adventured 5y ago> most of the world, in terms of population, is actually not on the "western side" of this conflict How do we know which side those people are on? Either way, fortunately the world doesn't function by 51% majority vote.
- trasz 5y agoChina is essentially pacifist. And it’s not just their politics; it’s how Chinese - the actual people - feel. Invading anyone just isn’t their thing. So, they are quite unhappy with Russia’s invasion, but they can’t join US sanctions, because US. Instead they’ll probably sanction Russia silently, and then buy out Russian industry for peanuts.
- eloisius 5y agoThis is news for anyone living in Taiwan.
- trasz 5y agoOnly if you believe in propaganda instead of looking at the facts. Can you tell me what offensive actions against Taiwan China has actually made?
- eloisius 5y agoAre we limited to actions they have successfully carried out, or just those they threaten to? Are you implying that it’s Western/Taiwanese propaganda that China is willing to forcibly unify Taiwan and that in fact China would never consider it?
- trasz 5y agoPrecisely - China has been repeatedly saying they wouldn’t invade Taiwan. What you are describing is our western rhetoric built around it, which essentially assumes everything they say is a lie. We are perversely enthusiastic towards wars. Chinese - the people, not just their government - hate war. Even if sometimes it’s not a good thing, like when declining to join economic war against Russia.
- reducesuffering 5y ago> China has been repeatedly saying they wouldn’t invade Taiwan. This is the argument you're still positing after the last month? Is the irony lost on you? I guess if it's not crystal clear: https://www.npr.org/2022/01/10/1071766987/u-s-russia-dicuss-ukraine-can-diplomacy-help-avoid-a-military-confrontation https://www.npr.org/2022/01/10/1071766987/u-s-russia-dicuss-...
- muzani 5y agoI often recommend reading SCMP to see China's real stance. Western media tends to demonize China unfairly. This one is quite telling: https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3168656/ukraine-invasion-chinas-global-economic-ambitions-face https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3168656/u... Everyone knows China as a Russian trade partner but they're also a major Ukrainian trade partner as well. If you want a more neutral source there's Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Ukraine_relations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Ukraine_relation...
- jacknews 5y agoMy guess is the Red Cross decided on the donation, and the CCP jumped on it, to take the credit, and deflect from their own lack of action - the announcement does appear to be from the foreign ministry. Supporting evidence is that the amount is paltry, even insulting, as a govt donation, so either they were rushed into 'sponsoring' the existing announcement, or they are sending a message of barely even token aid.
- trasz 5y agoChina appears to be finally adjusting their course: “China steps away from Russia, finally calling the invasion of Ukraine a ‘war’”. https://fortune.com/2022/03/02/china-civilians-harm-russia-invasion-ukraine-war/amp/ https://fortune.com/2022/03/02/china-civilians-harm-russia-i...
- irl_ 5y agoI know the title is the title on the actual article, but it's the Chinese Red Cross, not China itself. National Red Cross Societies are independent of the country's government. They may receive government funding but they decide what they do with the money themselves. From https://www.ifrc.org/fundamental-principles https://www.ifrc.org/fundamental-principles "The Movement is independent. The National Societies, while auxiliaries in the humanitarian services of their governments and subject to the laws of their respective countries, must always maintain their autonomy so that they may be able at all times to act in accordance with the principles of the Movement."
- Ourgon 5y agoIs it possible for any large organisation in China to be truly independent from the CCP? I have my severe doubts.
- asimpletune 5y agoYeah it seems that CCP is doing this to add a layer of abstraction and have plausible deniability with their Russian allies perhaps
- dis-sys 5y ago> have plausible deniability with their Russian allies perhaps Russia is China's biggest permanent enemy, with its size and ambitions, together with the fact that it is the only foreign country that still occupy lands traditionally owned by China, you'd need a bullet in the brain to believe that Russia is China's ally. It is the single largest threat to China's security & future stability. Seeing the poor performance of Russia troops in the last two weeks offered huge comfort to many Chinese like myself - a weak Russia & an incapable Russian armed forces is a solid foundation of the peace of our generation.
- bawolff 5y agoAllies tend to be politically convinent, not BFFs forever.
- jacknews 5y agoEven assuming this is the Chinese government providing the funds, through the Chinese Red Cross, this donation of just $800k seems to me a case of "damned by faint praise". If it's the Chinese Red Cross independent of government, then it's a relatively generous donation for an ngo branch that is not even in the same region, perhaps thumbing their nose at the lack of Chinese govt. support.
- Shadonototra 5y ago
- dis-sys 5y agoSorry to disappoint you guys but the Chinese Red Cross is just another Chinese government department, more specifically, according to Chinese domestic laws, it is a Chinese government department with Sub-Provincial (Ministerial) level. It is current President is Chen Zhu who was China's Minister of Health, he is also a current vice-chairman of the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress, which according to the wikipedia is "the highest organ of state power and the legislature of China". Chinese Red Cross's current honorary President is Wang Qishan, the vice President of China & the right hand man of Xi.
- jl6 5y agoDonate to the UK Red Cross Ukraine appeal here: https://donate.redcross.org.uk/appeal/ukraine-crisis-appeal https://donate.redcross.org.uk/appeal/ukraine-crisis-appeal
- nuccy 5y agoYou can also donate directly to Ukrainian National Bank which has an account for supporting armed forces of Ukraine: https://bank.gov.ua/en/about/support-the-armed-forces https://bank.gov.ua/en/about/support-the-armed-forces
- nowherebeen 5y ago5 million RMB is only 800k USD. For comparison, a livestream star in China can sell $2 billion worth of goods in a day. China has over 1 billion people. The country is donating what is amount to 1 FANG employee's annual salary. This amount is like giving a penny just to appear neutral to both sides. They are donating to buy the argument that they care. Update: For those still unconvinced, a neighboring economy with equivalent to 5% of China's GDP donated 27 tons of medical supplies. Anyone with knowledge want to calculate the market value of each ton of medical supply?
- onlyrealcuzzo 5y ago> The country is donating what is amount to 1 FANG employee's annual salary. >70% of employees at FAANG make less than $800k per year.
- nowherebeen 5y agoWith this year's crazy tech stock appreciation, I would hope they would be making somewhere close to this from RSU. But okay, 2 FANG employees :)
- btheshoe 5y ago30% make more than 800k???
- powerapple 5y agoI guess they should donate weapons instead, because missiles are always expensive than blankets for refuges.
- limoce 5y agoA sample point: 5 million RMB is worth of an 80m² apartment in Shanghai, but many ordinary Chinese need to pay a 10~30 yr mortgage. Average salaries are not that high in China.
- seanmcdirmid 5y agoReal estate is crazier in China than in the USA when you compare housing costs to local salaries, or even when you compare Chinese housing costs to American salaries. I relocated from Beijing back to Seattle so I could buy a house.
- NicoJuicy 5y agoWhy is this news? The Netherlands with ~ 20 million people donated over 100 million in 1 donation this week. That's more than 100 x more in absolute numbers and china has over 1 billion people. Anyone wants to compare relative difference per capita? Since this is not even newsworthy in absolute numbers. Probably it's a record low in relative numbers.
- ChemSpider 5y agoYes, why would this "news" be upvoted. That amount is so low, it is actually insulting. China has the means to end this war on short notice but it choose not to.
- btheshoe 5y agoIt's geopolitically interesting that China, a Russian ally, is choosing to donate to a Ukrainian cause. It sends a subtle message of china's stance on the war.
- dgellow 5y ago> Why is this news? It’s something that happened and might interest some people. That makes it news and someone found it interesting enough to share on HN. News items don’t have to be more meaningful than “x happened”. In this case it’s interesting to know actions taken by China in the context of Ukraine invasion by Russia. Even if it isn’t that meaningful, it’s still a message.
- krapp 5y ago>News items don’t have to be more meaningful than “x happened”. Yes, they do. Any news story that would be covered by the mainstream media needs to present evidence of a new or interesting phenomenon that satisfies intellectual curiosity. Do most stories about Ukraine, Russia, China or the war satisfy intellectual curiosity, or emotional needs? Do they generate intellectually stimulating conversation, or just act as a medium for the same tedious political tribalism that most political subjects tend to generate? The bar has to be higher than "x happened" or else we'll get flooded with pedestrian nonsense, which we are every time a major mainstream topic takes over and the existing moderation safeguards fail.
- redwood 5y agoThis is about $1M right? A few orders of magnitude below what others are providing while feeding the boot that stomps on the humans in need of said humanitatian assistance. Hey it's a start but China the world is watching you
- ChemSpider 5y agoThat is not even a start, the amount is adding insult to injury. We are talking about a (self-proclaimed) economic superpower, and not a local bakery chain in Beijing.
- raxxorrax 5y agoChina is still considered a developing country and that is pretty much true for a vast amount of Chinese people. There are some exceptions already, but there is merit to the classification.
- mekster 5y agoIt doesn't matter how you want to call it but compare with GDP vs $1m donation and see if it's a joke or an effort.
- childintime 5y agoThe Netherlands alone collected over 100 million euros this week. 5000x as much per person.
- NicoJuicy 5y agoNetherlands donations would be closer to 9000 times Chinese donations per capita. Netherlands donated more than 100 million. China is 1,4 billion people, not 1 billion and the donated amount is 800 k. Not 1 million. Netherlands is 17,3 million people, not 20 million. Additionally, Netherlands donated euros, not dollars. -- If you take into consideration that Ukraine was a "one road one belt" partner and had a nuclear protection agreement with China. In return, Ukraine also delivered a lot of food/wheat. Then you can see that any notion of China as a strong ally is too ridiculous to even consider.
- paradite 5y agoRed Cross Society of China website (in Chinese): https://www.redcross.org.cn/ https://www.redcross.org.cn/ You can see quite a few references to the party. Red Cross Society of China information on IFRC: https://www.ifrc.org/national-societies-directory/red-cross-society-china https://www.ifrc.org/national-societies-directory/red-cross-...
- hans789 5y agoGood initiatives, helping people who are in need.
- enkid 5y agoWhy is this on the front page instead of the billions of dollars that the US and Europeans are giving?
- RyEgswuCsn 5y agoExactly because it invokes such comparisons which would make China's donation look pretty pathetic.
- synergy20 5y agoso $800K USD to help Ukraine for humanitarian while purchasing billions of dollars of gas etc from Russia where the sanction is occurring?
- ngcc_hk 5y agoAnd if devil can make some good it should help to condemn Russia. 5m is nothing. Not condemn and encouragement … sigh.