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Visa, Mastercard block Russian financial institutions after sanctions

Sebguer 5y ago
The actual title of this article could be "MasterCard complies with the law".
- karamanolev 5y ago
  True. That part is beyond what's required by law, right? It also promised to contribute a $2 million for humanitarian relief.
  - hericium 5y ago
    I wonder how many of those promises will actually be fulfilled before Putin gets frustrated.
    - imwillofficial 5y ago
      I don’t get comments like these. Does Putin strike you as an overly emotional guy who gets frustrated easily? My take is that he is cold and calculating. Not one I’d take lightly.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - klyrs 5y ago
        I thought he was cold and calculating until he attacked Ukraine. This looks downright ham-handed and heedless compared to the maneuvering of the decades leading up to now. He's made a damned fool of himself, if you ask me.
        lliamander 5y ago
        It looks stupid to me too. Which is precisely why I think there's information I'm missing. Like, I've seen arguments that the whole "Ukraine joining NATO" justification is just a pretext. But if that's just a pretext, what's the actual reason? I haven't seen a good answer yet. I honestly don't think we'll know the true story for decades.
        phatfish 5y ago
        The reason? Same as most other people with power, more power. It's just dictators like Putin can act on the impulses of their ego and ignore everyone else. The power gained in this case is attempting to rebuild the Russian empire by "liberating" areas that have since become independent countries and want nothing to do with the Russian rule.
        tguvot 5y ago
        Google translate this: https://web.archive.org/web/20220226224717/https://ria.ru/20220226/rossiya-1775162336.html https://web.archive.org/web/20220226224717/https://ria.ru/20... It was auto published on 26 on ria and bunch of other sites and than purged. It explains everything
        CamperBob2 5y ago
        "Can't translate this." - typically useful error message from Google.
        tguvot 5y ago
        Just copy/paste text. But overall idea .. "russia is restoring russian world by combining together russian people: greatrussian (russians), small russians (ukranians) and whiterussians... putin took upon himself historic mission of finally solving ukranian question... .. with each year it would have been harder and harder to bring ukraine back to russia... it doesn't means that ukraine as state dissappear but it recharted, restructured and returned to be part of the russian world... etc.. etc.. etc.. see the idea ?
      - hericium 5y ago
        > Does Putin strike you as an overly emotional guy who gets frustrated easily? He's a hardliner, I would not say that he could be frustrated easily but this absolutely is not an easy situation. His currency has collapsed and his country is on the brink of defaulting on foreign debt. He has no support anywhere but from his puppet dictator Lukashenko. I think Putin did not expect such coordination and global effort in sanctioning Russia over Ukraine invasion. I believe that he wanted to take over Ukraine in just a few days and was surprised by Ukraine's defence and multiple desertions in his own army. He has decisions to make and choices are poor.
        pengaru 5y ago
        > I believe that he wanted to take over Ukraine in just a few days and was surprised by Ukraine's defence and multiple desertions in his own army. Everything I have read that isn't heavily biased anti-Russia propaganda says Russia has exercised enormous restraint so far in this invasion. There's no reason I see to believe Putin's been surprised by Ukraine's defenses, it's not as if all of Russia's forces at the border have been deployed and overwhelmed. Last I read not even half had mobilized. It's more like Putin pushed forward what he hoped was enough to compel a low-casualty outcome in his favor. What happens next seems likely to be substantially more painful for the Ukrainians, but I hope I'm wrong.
        Ajef 5y ago
        While I mostly agree with your assessment you lack to point out that using less troops saves costs, bombing less cities/civilians will make installing a controllable regime to rule there easier. These are all strategic decisions. Implying Putin held back for the sake of the ukranian people is misleading.
        tomp 5y ago
        He definitely held back for the sake of civilians. Otherwise we wouldn’t have videos of civilians stopping tanks.
      - Osiris 5y ago
        I just read an article that US intelligence is getting reports that Putin is having outbursts and not acting like his usual calculating self. Given his age, it's certainly within the realm of possibility that he is suffering from cognitive decline.
        Hamuko 5y ago
        https://www.nbcnews.com/investigations/frustrated-putin-may-order-escalation-violence-ukraine-us-officials-sa-rcna18026 https://www.nbcnews.com/investigations/frustrated-putin-may-... >Western intelligence agencies have good visibility into Putin right now and are closely watching his moves for any significant behavioral changes, several current and former officials said. Four U.S. officials said there is no intelligence saying he is mentally unstable, but they said he has displayed a different pattern of behavior from in the past. >The U.S. has solid intelligence that Putin is frustrated and directing unusual bursts of anger at people in his inner circle over the state of the military campaign and the worldwide condemnation of his actions, one former and two current U.S. officials briefed on the intelligence said. >That is unusual, they say, because Putin, a former intelligence officer, usually keeps his emotions in check.
        refurb 5y ago
        I assume this is about as reliable as “Iraqi soldiers pushed over incubators with Kuwaiti babies in them” (read: not accurate at all).
      - MrDresden 5y ago
        Like so many others have mentioned here, he isn't the same persona he used to be (if he ever truly was). Dangerous ofcourse, but a mastermind he isn't.
        type0 5y ago
        I think he's got longtime COVID that muddled his brains
      - rsynnott 5y ago
        > Does Putin strike you as an overly emotional guy who gets frustrated easily? I mean... yes, clearly! Obviously, there's the Ukraine thing, but even before that, look at photos and footage of him when slighted at conferences and so on. He's not as emotionally open as a Trump or a Burlusconi, but he's no stoic as politicians go.
      - TheFattestNinja 5y ago
        It's safe to assume this operation was in the planning at least since 2014. 8 years. It had weeks of operations at the border to sort out the logistics. And it had overwhelming military/intelligence superiority and access to the front from 3 sides. It should have taken hours to break through. The operation was a shamble, even if it might succeed over time. In 20 years of NATO operations over 5 different war theatres there have been 74 captured soldiers (src: https://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/prisoners-in-the-war-on-terror-captured-nato-personnel-since-2001 https://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/prisoners-in-the-war-o... ). Here there have been 10's in a matter of days. Either he's gone full potato, or he's still very calculating but everyone around him is feeding false information upwards to "look nice" and because they can't say no. Neither scenario bodes extremely well for his chances of success.
      - stormking 5y ago
        Yes, he and especially his fans have been working on establishing the image of a strategic mastermind. But in reality, he's just a short, puffy old man, living in ridiculous kitschy palaces, sitting on ridiculous long tables because he's afraid of even his most loyal underlings. With attacking Ukraine, he made a huge mistake. He simply counted on the west doing nothing, as usual, but this time he went too far. But because he's just a powerful man, not a great man, he's unable to admit that.
        vagrantJin 5y ago
        > He simply counted on the west doing nothing, as usual Looks like he was right. I don't think a man who has run Russia for decades will suddenly have a brain fart and attack another sovereign state on a whim. Think carefully. Think very carefully.
      - NicoJuicy 5y ago
        Sure he does. The picture he had portrayed of him doesn't match reality. Just look at how scared he is of catching COVID. Since 2 years, almost no one is allowed near to him. The amount of COVID tests his bodyguards and others need to do daily is pretty insane too. Everyone he sees/greets needs to be in isolation for 2 weeks upfront to get near. https://www.economist.com/europe/2021/10/02/thanks-to-covid-19-vladimir-putin-has-become-almost-invisible https://www.economist.com/europe/2021/10/02/thanks-to-covid-... And many other sources for many years. Here's a video from him in a hazmat suite, one of his last public appearances - https://abcnews.go.com/International/putin-dons-hazmat-suit-russia-admits-virus-numbers/story?id=69768452 https://abcnews.go.com/International/putin-dons-hazmat-suit-... Fyi, sitting at a 20 meter table is not a public appearance and Putin has met his big/important friend Xi only virtually as far as I'm aware the last years. I don't think he's calculated at all. Many things have wrong that he didn't suspect: - Their 'advanced' malware was finished off by Microsoft within 3 hours - Their 'advanced hacking culture' has been reversed within days, state tv programs and websites have gone offline within hours. - Their decade long effort of a propaganda machine has been severely reduced within days ( RT, ...) - Their portrait of having an 'advanced military' has been decimated. The world now knows that his army is mostly old, rusty, unmotivated and his troops are clueless. - He miscalculated Ukraine, who he practically trained for 8 years. He also raised serious awareness under Ukrainians what happens with inaction. - He's giving up his independence, isolating himself from the world and it seems that he's fully aware of that. - He is constantly ( for years) angering his biggest and most profitable clients ( Europe). He overstepped his carefully crafted image and failed every step on the way. Not even taken into consideration that he literally had 8 years ( or more) to plan this. His image of being a world power ( while Russia has the same GDP as 30 years ago and America has grown 14 fold) is just an illusion, but real for him. We have given him too much attention on the world stage. He has nukes, not brains... Should have been known years ago ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23679110 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23679110 ). Europe is prioritizing energy independence now, Russia still had multiple decades to profit from that to improve their situation. Now, they became 100% China dependent.
  - demadog 5y ago
    That’s the equivalent of me giving $2
    - bojangleslover 5y ago
      No it's not, it's the equivalent of you giving $2m
      - raxxorrax 5y ago
        Only equivalent if he is particularly humanitarian. Jokes aside, every bit helps of course.
      - chrismorgan 5y ago
        > Jesus sat down opposite the treasury and saw how the multitude cast money into the treasury. Many who were rich cast in much. A poor widow came and she cast in two small brass coins, which equal a quadrans coin. He called his disciples to himself and said to them, “Most certainly I tell you, this poor widow gave more than all those who are giving into the treasury, for they all gave out of their abundance, but she, out of her poverty, gave all that she had to live on.” — Mark 12:41–44 The coinage in question was about 1⁄64 of a labourer’s daily pay, in current terms in the vicinity of $2, depending on where you are.
        stickfigure 5y ago
        While you have your bible open: How many daughters do the Ukranians have to sacrifice in burnt offering to give Putin into their hands?
    - timeon 5y ago
      And number you gave is?
      - throwaway09223 5y ago
        The point is that it's not newsworthy. None of this is.
  - Sebguer 5y ago
    Sure, but it's not mentioned in the article title at all, it just says "block Russian financial institutions", which is now required by law.
- Tabular-Iceberg 5y ago
  How would that be newsworthy?
donw 5y ago
sigh Fifty years ago, the dollar had value because America was the one-stop-shop for everything. Cars, electronics, appliances, all of it. Nowadays, that's China. China makes everything, or the parts to make everything, and increasingly to a higher standard than can be produced in the US. Go watch Project Farm and think on those results. The dollar has value now because it functions as a medium of exchange. That's it. The machinery of international purchasing and banking works in dollars, but that's not a given. Kicking Russia out of SWIFT undermines that entire system. Doesn't matter if it's expedient or warranted or if you just really fucking hate Ivan. It is now very clear to every single bank on the planet that the USG is willing to use commercial entities as a weapon against your country. Not just banks, either: technology companies, medical suppliers, all the rest. That has very real long-term consequences, and I wouldn't be surprised if China and Russia jointly rolled out a competing standard within the next decade. The combination of "you're using this if you want to buy from us" and "can you really trust the Americans?" is not going to have good consequences for the USD.
- avalys 5y ago
  All valid points, but...using military force to seize control of another sovereign, democratic nation also undermines the entire economic system. I don't see this as driven by the US government and as something that will be held against the USD, it is just as much motivated by the Europeans and the Euro. The point of these sanctions is to say - a country is not allowed the benefits of integration with the global economy if they are willing to use military force against it.
  - donw 5y ago
    > All valid points, but...using military force to seize control of another sovereign, democratic nation also undermines the entire economic system. History disagrees. > The point of these sanctions is to say - a country is not allowed the benefits of integration with the global economy if they are willing to use military force against it. What happens when that country is no longer interested in the trade-offs required to "integrate into the global economy"?
zxcvbn4038 5y ago
Not only does Russia have its own financial interchange system but they have their own credit card network as well. Visa and MasterCard were forced to integrate with them early on in order to get a toe hold in the country. This will do more to hurt MasterCard then Moscow. Hindsight being perfect, one of the worst blunders the US ever made was turning their backs when the Soviet Union collapsed. That was their one chance to jump in and shape things in their favor, instead they opened Pizza Huts.
- ido 5y ago
  I think this is a naive reading of historic events. The US didn't "open pizza huts" but collaborated vigorously and enthusiastically in the looting of Soviet state assets post-collapse.
  - vmception 5y ago
    Oligarchs are the OG dip buyers Bonus round 2 right before our eyes! assuming Putin doesn't nationalize stuff. Everyone else is literally helping you have diamond hands because you cant sell until the sanctions are lifted haha, which I mean, they will eventually. Undervalued, revenue producing assets aren't going to be ignored for long. BTFD. Just assume that you're going to the front lines soon unless you have enough money to donate enough to an Ivy League school for admission and draft deferral, like last time. The people that couldn't afford have no lineage as their bloodline ended, and the people that could afford it are current politicians and Presidents on all sides and their genes and ideas do pass on. Makes it easy to rationalize taking asymmetric financial bets during a time when people think they don't want to talk about it.
    - R0b0t1 5y ago
      They didn't buy the dip, they stole it from the state and its people.
      - vmception 5y ago
        There is no way that a state that nationalizes everything and then has to sell it all in a yet-to-be-birthed private economy has the ability of doing it amicably and for the people. There is no market depth, there is no liquidity, and there will always be people close to the decision makers or an international market of people willing to exchange, racing against the domestic people. The folly was the communism, the unbridled accumulation of revenue producing asset was just waiting for the communism to fall apart, I think it is shocking I also think I do not have sympathy for it. Time to do it again. Cheap revenue producing assets.
dukeofdoom 5y ago
Expect Russia to retaliate against MasterCard. If this is your sole credit card you might want to look for alternatives in case their computers go down.
- phantomathkg 5y ago
  What would be the alternative? Cash or Crypto?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - dukeofdoom 5y ago
    Cash is King! You need functioning internet and banks to accept crypto.
    - Osiris 5y ago
      Being pedantic but you only need banks to convert crypto to fiat and via versa. But given they context here I concede the point. Cash is also subject to hyper inflation which is likely given the rapid drop in the value of their currency, making it a poor store of value.
  - hadrien01 5y ago
    Other networks. International ones like Visa or American Express, or national ones like Carte Bleue, Bancontact, etc.
    - thinkingemote 5y ago
      Visa is blocking them too
      - hadrien01 5y ago
        I interpreted the parent comment as how to react if the Mastercard network goes down worldwide when Russia retaliates by trying to hack them. Payments networks inside Russia is another matter altogether, but I assume like most countries they also have a local card network (Edit: found it, it's called Mir[0]). In that case, the issue will arise only when trying to use russian cards outside Russia. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mir_(payment_system) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mir_(payment_system)
2Gkashmiri 5y ago
great. this is why india is furiously pushing for "rupay" card system that they ingenuously developed rather than just lapping up whatever visa/mastercard offer. they can do 30/50% less fees than incumbent visa/MC and still operate in the ecosystem because all local gateways and tech stack has been built to incorporate Rupay card system same as visa/MC. the end result is, suppose tomorrow USA orders visa to quit india, beyond a few hiccups, there is a good chance india can weather these american companies leaving the domestic ecosystem. that way, the indirect control USA has over the financial infrastructure of entire nations is reduced to a great extent. seems russia has done the same so this is moot now but think of it this way. visa/MC often cry to mommy USA about unfair advantage to rupay cards in india and the US tries to intervene. suppose india bans Visa tomorrow, why is the US government so inclined to intervene in that case? unless this is their way of maintaining a degree of control
- dddnzzz334 5y ago
  China has UnionPay and Russia has MIR. Neither comes close to competing with VISA and MasterCard. The thing is that these cards only work domestically and are literally impossible to pay for things online (unless the payment processor specifically caters to your market). Unless RuPay can be used painlessly internationally, it won't be of much use.
  - 2Gkashmiri 5y ago
    yes. my point exactly for these cards working domestically. you imagine if russia or china or india does not have their own cards what would happen "within" that country? their entire infrastructure would collapse if visa/MC decides to quit or are forced to. that is what these locals cards offer. a hedge against american rugpull.
  - qb 5y ago
    I don't know about Mir, but UnionPay works just fine internationally in many places, especially in markets that cater(ed) to Chinese tourists many if not most merchants accept it. There's even UnionPay card-issuing banks outside Mainland China, for example in Thailand.
jakub_g 5y ago
Note: article was updated saying Visa also joined the blockage. Current title: Visa, Mastercard block Russian financial institutions after sanctions
astkaasa 5y ago
some context about this: Chinese alternative for MasterCard/Visa is UnionPay Chinese alternative for SWIFT is CIPS
marius_k 5y ago
Ask HN: Is it possible to create counter-terrorist consensus on blockchain? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30510973 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30510973
- marius_k 5y ago
  I see downvotes are coming. I am sorry for spamming it here. I just feel desperate to do something.
  - forgingahead 5y ago
    You seem like a kind soul and the horrible situation is undoubtedly having an effect on you. That said, the best thing to do is to write to your government representative to request they support a de-escalation of this situation, and then switch off the news and social media. Unfortunately, the war machine is in overdrive and lots of wicked parties are using media propaganda to escalate emotions amongst people. The only outcome of this high temperature is more war and suffering for all, which again benefits the wicked parties (military corporations and others), while regular people everywhere will suffer. So write to your government, turn off the media, and if you believe, pray for peace. That is the best way to help.
    - glogla 5y ago
      "Support peace" here means "make sure invasion of sovereign nation goes unpunished". The best anyone can do to make the world better place is support the world again the Russian aggressors and war criminals. People "asking for peace" and "deescalating" are just on the side of the aggressors and war criminals.
      - forgingahead 5y ago
        I'm going to assume you are genuine in your anger and not a shill for the chickenhawks and MIC. Russian people are not the aggressors here, just like all Muslims were not responsible for 9/11 nor all Americans responsible for Afghanistan/Iraq and all other similar situations. Don't behave like the real world is a Marvel movie filled with heroes and supervillains. If you truly want to help, write to your govt representative. Anything else you do as a civilian or private business is vigilantism, and will have no impact on the actual conflict at hand.
kirso 5y ago
Just talked about this today with a few of my Russian friends. This only prompts Putin ratings to grow. It frustrates the opposition (30% of Russians). But it also makes the supporters hate the west even more. So if all these sanctions are there to frustrate people to create a coup and a revolution - its currently working in the opposite direction. EDIT: I don't mean it as something that I wish, just stating an opinion from locals I have spoken with.
- scandox 5y ago
  Going by history sanctions do tend to entrench authoritarian rulers. I still think there isn't any choice. He used the "Nuclear" word and now I think Europe's policy will be containment for a very long time. Edit: added "be"
  - nnx 5y ago
    > I still think there isn't any choice I don't think we tried to push for Ukraine as neutral state, like Finland, did we? Does EU/NATO really NEED Ukraine to join them? Seems like it would be a simple peaceful discussion worth having rather than risking more suffering. Discussion might not work... but the fact it's not even on the table is absolutely insane.
    - fundatus 5y ago
      The thing is "neutral state" for Putin means a russian vassal state. So not an option.
    - tomerv 5y ago
      The "Ukraine as a neutral state" angle sounded plausible maybe 5 years ago. But the fact is that Putin started a war despite no significant recent change in Ukraine's relationship with NATO or EU.
      - dragonwriter 5y ago
        > The "Ukraine as a neutral state" angle sounded plausible maybe 5 years ago. But the fact is that Putin started a war despite no significant recent change in Ukraine's relationship with NATO or EU. Escalated an existing war that has lasted more than 5 years, and which certain NATO members have been very clear is why Ukraine wasn't being allowed to advance in its quest for membership.
EnOstac6 5y ago
And I cannot send donations from Russia to Meduza.io - Lativan based Russian speaking media targeted at Russia mostly. And other Russian people connot do this too. Since Meduza was declared a "foreign agent" by Russian authorities (there's such a heavily burdening law here), they lost most advertisement and changed their model to donations. I'm afraid they wouldn't survive this. And government-owned media will continue to receive their subsidies from a country budget. I feel like some things done these days are inflicting more collateral damage than supposed effect.
- markvdb 5y ago
  You bump into problems donating to Meduza.io from Russia. Same for others. Is there any way I can help?
  - EnOstac6 5y ago
    I don't know. Really. I just wanted to add another view on some sanctions effects from inside the country that attacked their neighbour (I still have a problem beleiving this).
    - markvdb 5y ago
      Are you aware that Meduza accepts quite a few cryptocurrencies too? I just found out when preparing to make a small donation myself...
- chris123 5y ago
  This is what the Fiat system do: war, censorship, cancellation, did, education, more destruction and collateral damage. A great book on the topic is called The Fiat Standard, highly recommended.
  - nest0r 5y ago
- dukoid 5y ago
colesantiago 5y ago
I know it might be very tempting in these times, but whatever you do please do not accept crypto! [0] It isn't the solution. please use cash or PayPal instead (try in another country) [0] https://www.stephendiehl.com/blog/against-crypto.html https://www.stephendiehl.com/blog/against-crypto.html
- asenna 5y ago
  Literally the first point of the blog you linked to: > The crypto project has had 13 years to try and find a problem to solve. It has not found one. You've posted this link under the news article to which crypto has proven to be THE solution (non-censorable, cannot be weaponized). The other points from the blog post are equally hilarious. You can't shout "It's not money!" and hope that it doesn't become one. If people value it, find use in it enough to accept it, it can be treated as money.
- Proven 5y ago
  [dead]
Kinrany 5y ago
One way this already backfired: credit cards cannot be used to pay for hosting and VPN services.
- simonh 5y ago
  Isn't that the sanction working as intended? I understand your point, those services might be used by Russians against the war, but they can also be used by Russians who support the war. There's nothing good about any of this, the harm being done to ordinary Russians by sanctions isn't good, or desirable, or even deserved. Nobody in the west wants to be doing this. It is necessary though, unfortunately.
  - meragrin_ 5y ago
    Yes, but it makes it harder for Russians who do not agree with their government to communicate.
  - EnOstac6 5y ago
    Yes, suppose you have independent media in Russia. First thing you have to do, is to place website in a zone not controlled by government aligned register (So they cannot easily undelegate it). Second, you use hosting abroad to prevent equipment seizure or adminstrative hosting provider compromise.
  - Kinrany 5y ago
    The state will have access to both anyway. Inconveniences like these are significant for individuals but trivial for organizations, especially those not bound by law.

The actual title of this article could be "MasterCard complies with the law".

karamanolev 5y ago
True. That part is beyond what's required by law, right? It also promised to contribute a $2 million for humanitarian relief.
- hericium 5y ago
  I wonder how many of those promises will actually be fulfilled before Putin gets frustrated.
  - imwillofficial 5y ago
    I don’t get comments like these. Does Putin strike you as an overly emotional guy who gets frustrated easily? My take is that he is cold and calculating. Not one I’d take lightly.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - klyrs 5y ago
      I thought he was cold and calculating until he attacked Ukraine. This looks downright ham-handed and heedless compared to the maneuvering of the decades leading up to now. He's made a damned fool of himself, if you ask me.
      - lliamander 5y ago
        It looks stupid to me too. Which is precisely why I think there's information I'm missing. Like, I've seen arguments that the whole "Ukraine joining NATO" justification is just a pretext. But if that's just a pretext, what's the actual reason? I haven't seen a good answer yet. I honestly don't think we'll know the true story for decades.
        phatfish 5y ago
        The reason? Same as most other people with power, more power. It's just dictators like Putin can act on the impulses of their ego and ignore everyone else. The power gained in this case is attempting to rebuild the Russian empire by "liberating" areas that have since become independent countries and want nothing to do with the Russian rule.
        tguvot 5y ago
        Google translate this: https://web.archive.org/web/20220226224717/https://ria.ru/20220226/rossiya-1775162336.html https://web.archive.org/web/20220226224717/https://ria.ru/20... It was auto published on 26 on ria and bunch of other sites and than purged. It explains everything
        CamperBob2 5y ago
        "Can't translate this." - typically useful error message from Google.
        tguvot 5y ago
        Just copy/paste text. But overall idea .. "russia is restoring russian world by combining together russian people: greatrussian (russians), small russians (ukranians) and whiterussians... putin took upon himself historic mission of finally solving ukranian question... .. with each year it would have been harder and harder to bring ukraine back to russia... it doesn't means that ukraine as state dissappear but it recharted, restructured and returned to be part of the russian world... etc.. etc.. etc.. see the idea ?
    - hericium 5y ago
      > Does Putin strike you as an overly emotional guy who gets frustrated easily? He's a hardliner, I would not say that he could be frustrated easily but this absolutely is not an easy situation. His currency has collapsed and his country is on the brink of defaulting on foreign debt. He has no support anywhere but from his puppet dictator Lukashenko. I think Putin did not expect such coordination and global effort in sanctioning Russia over Ukraine invasion. I believe that he wanted to take over Ukraine in just a few days and was surprised by Ukraine's defence and multiple desertions in his own army. He has decisions to make and choices are poor.
      - pengaru 5y ago
        > I believe that he wanted to take over Ukraine in just a few days and was surprised by Ukraine's defence and multiple desertions in his own army. Everything I have read that isn't heavily biased anti-Russia propaganda says Russia has exercised enormous restraint so far in this invasion. There's no reason I see to believe Putin's been surprised by Ukraine's defenses, it's not as if all of Russia's forces at the border have been deployed and overwhelmed. Last I read not even half had mobilized. It's more like Putin pushed forward what he hoped was enough to compel a low-casualty outcome in his favor. What happens next seems likely to be substantially more painful for the Ukrainians, but I hope I'm wrong.
        Ajef 5y ago
        While I mostly agree with your assessment you lack to point out that using less troops saves costs, bombing less cities/civilians will make installing a controllable regime to rule there easier. These are all strategic decisions. Implying Putin held back for the sake of the ukranian people is misleading.
        tomp 5y ago
        He definitely held back for the sake of civilians. Otherwise we wouldn’t have videos of civilians stopping tanks.
    - Osiris 5y ago
      I just read an article that US intelligence is getting reports that Putin is having outbursts and not acting like his usual calculating self. Given his age, it's certainly within the realm of possibility that he is suffering from cognitive decline.
      - Hamuko 5y ago
        https://www.nbcnews.com/investigations/frustrated-putin-may-order-escalation-violence-ukraine-us-officials-sa-rcna18026 https://www.nbcnews.com/investigations/frustrated-putin-may-... >Western intelligence agencies have good visibility into Putin right now and are closely watching his moves for any significant behavioral changes, several current and former officials said. Four U.S. officials said there is no intelligence saying he is mentally unstable, but they said he has displayed a different pattern of behavior from in the past. >The U.S. has solid intelligence that Putin is frustrated and directing unusual bursts of anger at people in his inner circle over the state of the military campaign and the worldwide condemnation of his actions, one former and two current U.S. officials briefed on the intelligence said. >That is unusual, they say, because Putin, a former intelligence officer, usually keeps his emotions in check.
        refurb 5y ago
        I assume this is about as reliable as “Iraqi soldiers pushed over incubators with Kuwaiti babies in them” (read: not accurate at all).
    - MrDresden 5y ago
      Like so many others have mentioned here, he isn't the same persona he used to be (if he ever truly was). Dangerous ofcourse, but a mastermind he isn't.
      - type0 5y ago
        I think he's got longtime COVID that muddled his brains
    - rsynnott 5y ago
      > Does Putin strike you as an overly emotional guy who gets frustrated easily? I mean... yes, clearly! Obviously, there's the Ukraine thing, but even before that, look at photos and footage of him when slighted at conferences and so on. He's not as emotionally open as a Trump or a Burlusconi, but he's no stoic as politicians go.
    - TheFattestNinja 5y ago
      It's safe to assume this operation was in the planning at least since 2014. 8 years. It had weeks of operations at the border to sort out the logistics. And it had overwhelming military/intelligence superiority and access to the front from 3 sides. It should have taken hours to break through. The operation was a shamble, even if it might succeed over time. In 20 years of NATO operations over 5 different war theatres there have been 74 captured soldiers (src: https://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/prisoners-in-the-war-on-terror-captured-nato-personnel-since-2001 https://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/prisoners-in-the-war-o... ). Here there have been 10's in a matter of days. Either he's gone full potato, or he's still very calculating but everyone around him is feeding false information upwards to "look nice" and because they can't say no. Neither scenario bodes extremely well for his chances of success.
    - stormking 5y ago
      Yes, he and especially his fans have been working on establishing the image of a strategic mastermind. But in reality, he's just a short, puffy old man, living in ridiculous kitschy palaces, sitting on ridiculous long tables because he's afraid of even his most loyal underlings. With attacking Ukraine, he made a huge mistake. He simply counted on the west doing nothing, as usual, but this time he went too far. But because he's just a powerful man, not a great man, he's unable to admit that.
      - vagrantJin 5y ago
        > He simply counted on the west doing nothing, as usual Looks like he was right. I don't think a man who has run Russia for decades will suddenly have a brain fart and attack another sovereign state on a whim. Think carefully. Think very carefully.
    - NicoJuicy 5y ago
      Sure he does. The picture he had portrayed of him doesn't match reality. Just look at how scared he is of catching COVID. Since 2 years, almost no one is allowed near to him. The amount of COVID tests his bodyguards and others need to do daily is pretty insane too. Everyone he sees/greets needs to be in isolation for 2 weeks upfront to get near. https://www.economist.com/europe/2021/10/02/thanks-to-covid-19-vladimir-putin-has-become-almost-invisible https://www.economist.com/europe/2021/10/02/thanks-to-covid-... And many other sources for many years. Here's a video from him in a hazmat suite, one of his last public appearances - https://abcnews.go.com/International/putin-dons-hazmat-suit-russia-admits-virus-numbers/story?id=69768452 https://abcnews.go.com/International/putin-dons-hazmat-suit-... Fyi, sitting at a 20 meter table is not a public appearance and Putin has met his big/important friend Xi only virtually as far as I'm aware the last years. I don't think he's calculated at all. Many things have wrong that he didn't suspect: - Their 'advanced' malware was finished off by Microsoft within 3 hours - Their 'advanced hacking culture' has been reversed within days, state tv programs and websites have gone offline within hours. - Their decade long effort of a propaganda machine has been severely reduced within days ( RT, ...) - Their portrait of having an 'advanced military' has been decimated. The world now knows that his army is mostly old, rusty, unmotivated and his troops are clueless. - He miscalculated Ukraine, who he practically trained for 8 years. He also raised serious awareness under Ukrainians what happens with inaction. - He's giving up his independence, isolating himself from the world and it seems that he's fully aware of that. - He is constantly ( for years) angering his biggest and most profitable clients ( Europe). He overstepped his carefully crafted image and failed every step on the way. Not even taken into consideration that he literally had 8 years ( or more) to plan this. His image of being a world power ( while Russia has the same GDP as 30 years ago and America has grown 14 fold) is just an illusion, but real for him. We have given him too much attention on the world stage. He has nukes, not brains... Should have been known years ago ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23679110 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23679110 ). Europe is prioritizing energy independence now, Russia still had multiple decades to profit from that to improve their situation. Now, they became 100% China dependent.
- demadog 5y ago
  That’s the equivalent of me giving $2
  - bojangleslover 5y ago
    No it's not, it's the equivalent of you giving $2m
    - raxxorrax 5y ago
      Only equivalent if he is particularly humanitarian. Jokes aside, every bit helps of course.
    - chrismorgan 5y ago
      > Jesus sat down opposite the treasury and saw how the multitude cast money into the treasury. Many who were rich cast in much. A poor widow came and she cast in two small brass coins, which equal a quadrans coin. He called his disciples to himself and said to them, “Most certainly I tell you, this poor widow gave more than all those who are giving into the treasury, for they all gave out of their abundance, but she, out of her poverty, gave all that she had to live on.” — Mark 12:41–44 The coinage in question was about 1⁄64 of a labourer’s daily pay, in current terms in the vicinity of $2, depending on where you are.
      - stickfigure 5y ago
        While you have your bible open: How many daughters do the Ukranians have to sacrifice in burnt offering to give Putin into their hands?
  - timeon 5y ago
    And number you gave is?
    - throwaway09223 5y ago
      The point is that it's not newsworthy. None of this is.
- Sebguer 5y ago
  Sure, but it's not mentioned in the article title at all, it just says "block Russian financial institutions", which is now required by law.
Tabular-Iceberg 5y ago
How would that be newsworthy?

donw 5y ago

sigh Fifty years ago, the dollar had value because America was the one-stop-shop for everything. Cars, electronics, appliances, all of it. Nowadays, that's China. China makes everything, or the parts to make everything, and increasingly to a higher standard than can be produced in the US. Go watch Project Farm and think on those results. The dollar has value now because it functions as a medium of exchange. That's it. The machinery of international purchasing and banking works in dollars, but that's not a given. Kicking Russia out of SWIFT undermines that entire system. Doesn't matter if it's expedient or warranted or if you just really fucking hate Ivan. It is now very clear to every single bank on the planet that the USG is willing to use commercial entities as a weapon against your country. Not just banks, either: technology companies, medical suppliers, all the rest. That has very real long-term consequences, and I wouldn't be surprised if China and Russia jointly rolled out a competing standard within the next decade. The combination of "you're using this if you want to buy from us" and "can you really trust the Americans?" is not going to have good consequences for the USD.

avalys 5y ago
All valid points, but...using military force to seize control of another sovereign, democratic nation also undermines the entire economic system. I don't see this as driven by the US government and as something that will be held against the USD, it is just as much motivated by the Europeans and the Euro. The point of these sanctions is to say - a country is not allowed the benefits of integration with the global economy if they are willing to use military force against it.
- donw 5y ago
  > All valid points, but...using military force to seize control of another sovereign, democratic nation also undermines the entire economic system. History disagrees. > The point of these sanctions is to say - a country is not allowed the benefits of integration with the global economy if they are willing to use military force against it. What happens when that country is no longer interested in the trade-offs required to "integrate into the global economy"?

zxcvbn4038 5y ago

Not only does Russia have its own financial interchange system but they have their own credit card network as well. Visa and MasterCard were forced to integrate with them early on in order to get a toe hold in the country. This will do more to hurt MasterCard then Moscow. Hindsight being perfect, one of the worst blunders the US ever made was turning their backs when the Soviet Union collapsed. That was their one chance to jump in and shape things in their favor, instead they opened Pizza Huts.

ido 5y ago
I think this is a naive reading of historic events. The US didn't "open pizza huts" but collaborated vigorously and enthusiastically in the looting of Soviet state assets post-collapse.
- vmception 5y ago
  Oligarchs are the OG dip buyers Bonus round 2 right before our eyes! assuming Putin doesn't nationalize stuff. Everyone else is literally helping you have diamond hands because you cant sell until the sanctions are lifted haha, which I mean, they will eventually. Undervalued, revenue producing assets aren't going to be ignored for long. BTFD. Just assume that you're going to the front lines soon unless you have enough money to donate enough to an Ivy League school for admission and draft deferral, like last time. The people that couldn't afford have no lineage as their bloodline ended, and the people that could afford it are current politicians and Presidents on all sides and their genes and ideas do pass on. Makes it easy to rationalize taking asymmetric financial bets during a time when people think they don't want to talk about it.
  - R0b0t1 5y ago
    They didn't buy the dip, they stole it from the state and its people.
    - vmception 5y ago
      There is no way that a state that nationalizes everything and then has to sell it all in a yet-to-be-birthed private economy has the ability of doing it amicably and for the people. There is no market depth, there is no liquidity, and there will always be people close to the decision makers or an international market of people willing to exchange, racing against the domestic people. The folly was the communism, the unbridled accumulation of revenue producing asset was just waiting for the communism to fall apart, I think it is shocking I also think I do not have sympathy for it. Time to do it again. Cheap revenue producing assets.

dukeofdoom 5y ago

Expect Russia to retaliate against MasterCard. If this is your sole credit card you might want to look for alternatives in case their computers go down.

phantomathkg 5y ago
What would be the alternative? Cash or Crypto?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- dukeofdoom 5y ago
  Cash is King! You need functioning internet and banks to accept crypto.
  - Osiris 5y ago
    Being pedantic but you only need banks to convert crypto to fiat and via versa. But given they context here I concede the point. Cash is also subject to hyper inflation which is likely given the rapid drop in the value of their currency, making it a poor store of value.
- hadrien01 5y ago
  Other networks. International ones like Visa or American Express, or national ones like Carte Bleue, Bancontact, etc.
  - thinkingemote 5y ago
    Visa is blocking them too
    - hadrien01 5y ago
      I interpreted the parent comment as how to react if the Mastercard network goes down worldwide when Russia retaliates by trying to hack them. Payments networks inside Russia is another matter altogether, but I assume like most countries they also have a local card network (Edit: found it, it's called Mir[0]). In that case, the issue will arise only when trying to use russian cards outside Russia. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mir_(payment_system) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mir_(payment_system)

2Gkashmiri 5y ago

great. this is why india is furiously pushing for "rupay" card system that they ingenuously developed rather than just lapping up whatever visa/mastercard offer. they can do 30/50% less fees than incumbent visa/MC and still operate in the ecosystem because all local gateways and tech stack has been built to incorporate Rupay card system same as visa/MC. the end result is, suppose tomorrow USA orders visa to quit india, beyond a few hiccups, there is a good chance india can weather these american companies leaving the domestic ecosystem. that way, the indirect control USA has over the financial infrastructure of entire nations is reduced to a great extent. seems russia has done the same so this is moot now but think of it this way. visa/MC often cry to mommy USA about unfair advantage to rupay cards in india and the US tries to intervene. suppose india bans Visa tomorrow, why is the US government so inclined to intervene in that case? unless this is their way of maintaining a degree of control

dddnzzz334 5y ago
China has UnionPay and Russia has MIR. Neither comes close to competing with VISA and MasterCard. The thing is that these cards only work domestically and are literally impossible to pay for things online (unless the payment processor specifically caters to your market). Unless RuPay can be used painlessly internationally, it won't be of much use.
- 2Gkashmiri 5y ago
  yes. my point exactly for these cards working domestically. you imagine if russia or china or india does not have their own cards what would happen "within" that country? their entire infrastructure would collapse if visa/MC decides to quit or are forced to. that is what these locals cards offer. a hedge against american rugpull.
- qb 5y ago
  I don't know about Mir, but UnionPay works just fine internationally in many places, especially in markets that cater(ed) to Chinese tourists many if not most merchants accept it. There's even UnionPay card-issuing banks outside Mainland China, for example in Thailand.

jakub_g 5y ago

Note: article was updated saying Visa also joined the blockage. Current title: Visa, Mastercard block Russian financial institutions after sanctions

astkaasa 5y ago

some context about this: Chinese alternative for MasterCard/Visa is UnionPay Chinese alternative for SWIFT is CIPS

marius_k 5y ago

Ask HN: Is it possible to create counter-terrorist consensus on blockchain? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30510973 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30510973

marius_k 5y ago
I see downvotes are coming. I am sorry for spamming it here. I just feel desperate to do something.
- forgingahead 5y ago
  You seem like a kind soul and the horrible situation is undoubtedly having an effect on you. That said, the best thing to do is to write to your government representative to request they support a de-escalation of this situation, and then switch off the news and social media. Unfortunately, the war machine is in overdrive and lots of wicked parties are using media propaganda to escalate emotions amongst people. The only outcome of this high temperature is more war and suffering for all, which again benefits the wicked parties (military corporations and others), while regular people everywhere will suffer. So write to your government, turn off the media, and if you believe, pray for peace. That is the best way to help.
  - glogla 5y ago
    "Support peace" here means "make sure invasion of sovereign nation goes unpunished". The best anyone can do to make the world better place is support the world again the Russian aggressors and war criminals. People "asking for peace" and "deescalating" are just on the side of the aggressors and war criminals.
    - forgingahead 5y ago
      I'm going to assume you are genuine in your anger and not a shill for the chickenhawks and MIC. Russian people are not the aggressors here, just like all Muslims were not responsible for 9/11 nor all Americans responsible for Afghanistan/Iraq and all other similar situations. Don't behave like the real world is a Marvel movie filled with heroes and supervillains. If you truly want to help, write to your govt representative. Anything else you do as a civilian or private business is vigilantism, and will have no impact on the actual conflict at hand.

kirso 5y ago

Just talked about this today with a few of my Russian friends. This only prompts Putin ratings to grow. It frustrates the opposition (30% of Russians). But it also makes the supporters hate the west even more. So if all these sanctions are there to frustrate people to create a coup and a revolution - its currently working in the opposite direction. EDIT: I don't mean it as something that I wish, just stating an opinion from locals I have spoken with.

scandox 5y ago
Going by history sanctions do tend to entrench authoritarian rulers. I still think there isn't any choice. He used the "Nuclear" word and now I think Europe's policy will be containment for a very long time. Edit: added "be"
- nnx 5y ago
  > I still think there isn't any choice I don't think we tried to push for Ukraine as neutral state, like Finland, did we? Does EU/NATO really NEED Ukraine to join them? Seems like it would be a simple peaceful discussion worth having rather than risking more suffering. Discussion might not work... but the fact it's not even on the table is absolutely insane.
  - fundatus 5y ago
    The thing is "neutral state" for Putin means a russian vassal state. So not an option.
  - tomerv 5y ago
    The "Ukraine as a neutral state" angle sounded plausible maybe 5 years ago. But the fact is that Putin started a war despite no significant recent change in Ukraine's relationship with NATO or EU.
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > The "Ukraine as a neutral state" angle sounded plausible maybe 5 years ago. But the fact is that Putin started a war despite no significant recent change in Ukraine's relationship with NATO or EU. Escalated an existing war that has lasted more than 5 years, and which certain NATO members have been very clear is why Ukraine wasn't being allowed to advance in its quest for membership.

EnOstac6 5y ago

And I cannot send donations from Russia to Meduza.io - Lativan based Russian speaking media targeted at Russia mostly. And other Russian people connot do this too. Since Meduza was declared a "foreign agent" by Russian authorities (there's such a heavily burdening law here), they lost most advertisement and changed their model to donations. I'm afraid they wouldn't survive this. And government-owned media will continue to receive their subsidies from a country budget. I feel like some things done these days are inflicting more collateral damage than supposed effect.

markvdb 5y ago
You bump into problems donating to Meduza.io from Russia. Same for others. Is there any way I can help?
- EnOstac6 5y ago
  I don't know. Really. I just wanted to add another view on some sanctions effects from inside the country that attacked their neighbour (I still have a problem beleiving this).
  - markvdb 5y ago
    Are you aware that Meduza accepts quite a few cryptocurrencies too? I just found out when preparing to make a small donation myself...
chris123 5y ago
This is what the Fiat system do: war, censorship, cancellation, did, education, more destruction and collateral damage. A great book on the topic is called The Fiat Standard, highly recommended.
- nest0r 5y ago
dukoid 5y ago

colesantiago 5y ago

I know it might be very tempting in these times, but whatever you do please do not accept crypto! [0] It isn't the solution. please use cash or PayPal instead (try in another country) [0] https://www.stephendiehl.com/blog/against-crypto.html https://www.stephendiehl.com/blog/against-crypto.html

asenna 5y ago
Literally the first point of the blog you linked to: > The crypto project has had 13 years to try and find a problem to solve. It has not found one. You've posted this link under the news article to which crypto has proven to be THE solution (non-censorable, cannot be weaponized). The other points from the blog post are equally hilarious. You can't shout "It's not money!" and hope that it doesn't become one. If people value it, find use in it enough to accept it, it can be treated as money.
Proven 5y ago
[dead]

Kinrany 5y ago

One way this already backfired: credit cards cannot be used to pay for hosting and VPN services.

simonh 5y ago
Isn't that the sanction working as intended? I understand your point, those services might be used by Russians against the war, but they can also be used by Russians who support the war. There's nothing good about any of this, the harm being done to ordinary Russians by sanctions isn't good, or desirable, or even deserved. Nobody in the west wants to be doing this. It is necessary though, unfortunately.
- meragrin_ 5y ago
  Yes, but it makes it harder for Russians who do not agree with their government to communicate.
- EnOstac6 5y ago
  Yes, suppose you have independent media in Russia. First thing you have to do, is to place website in a zone not controlled by government aligned register (So they cannot easily undelegate it). Second, you use hosting abroad to prevent equipment seizure or adminstrative hosting provider compromise.
- Kinrany 5y ago
  The state will have access to both anyway. Inconveniences like these are significant for individuals but trivial for organizations, especially those not bound by law.