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Stay safe, brother, my thoughts and prayers are with you. I'm Russian and wholeheartedly despise this outrageous war crime act of our so-called government.
by forlorn 5y ago
Stay safe, brother, my thoughts and prayers are with you. I'm Russian and wholeheartedly despise this outrageous war crime act of our so-called government.
- innermate 5y ago
- majgr 5y ago> wholeheartedly despise this outrageous war crime act of our so-called government Then, protest it on the street.
- tetromino_ 5y agoSome people protested. Quite soon they got arrested. The punishment for illegal protests is up to 30 days in prison. There are posts I am seeing on Telegram about some probable protest organizers being arrested in advance. Harsh punishment and lack of organizers means no critical mass.
- paxys 5y agoIf you are Russian in Russia right now I'd love to hear what the majority public sentiment in the country is.
- konart 5y agoDepends on where people live, how much do they make etc. The general sentiment in this country for the past few decades is "it's not for me to decide". Many people do agree however that while this kind of solution is not really a great one and likely not in our best interest - something has to be done regarding the NATO problem.
- throwaway_4ever 5y agoYes, the "NATO problem". The "problem" that is actually defending countries from invasions instead of letting their people, in a country that is not even close to being in NATO, die at the hands of tyrants.
- p1esk 5y agoWhat would US do if Russia decided to build military bases in Mexico or Cuba?
- xyzzy_plugh 5y agoYou'll be happy to learn that you can find that answer in any number of history books.
- ethbr0 5y agoThe US tried to invade Cuba (with CIA-supported Cuban rebels). It's not a hypothetical.
- unilynx 5y agoLast time they set up a naval blockade.
- throwaway894345 5y agoFair enough. How many bases has the US built in Ukraine anyway?
- hef19898 5y agoUkraine? No idea. Poland, the Baltics, the southern former Soviet republics (most of which end at -stan) to support the invasion of Afghanistan, a lot.
- HWR_14 5y agoTo make the metaphor correct, what would the US do if Mexico or Cuba asked Russia to build a military base just after the US took some of their territory and Russia continually said no. Because Russia just took Crimea a few years ago and NATO refused to allow them to join. And Russia has agreed Crimea was part of Ukraine as recently as 1994.
- cdelsolar 5y agowhat is the NATO problem
- labster 5y agoNATO is too effective at ensuring peace in Europe, thus preventing Russia from becoming a great power again.
- chii 5y agoso the bottom line is that russia (or more correctly, putin) is unable to accept that their state cannot and would not be allowed by the west to become a superpower. I think the inevitable result is war. I think the west should've decisively defeated the soviets when they broke apart, and prevented this, but instead, the optimism that an autocratic state would not do so is the true reality. But of course, it doesn't have good optics at the time to do this. I guess the future will tell if this war escalates.
- rectang 5y ago> I think the west should've decisively defeated the soviets when they broke apart, That wouldn't have been feasible given military realities (nukes, the total impossibility of invading and occupying Russia), and even if it had been what would it have achieved? The age of imperialism is over. The west has won allies by respecting the right of their populations to self-determination. (And when it hasn't respected self-determination, it has often lost ground.)
- hef19898 5y agoThe West (I live in a Western country by the way) did not respect self determination of people when it didn't suit the Wests interests. Not before WW1 (when there was no West), not between WW1 and WW2 (Austria wanted to join Germany and wasn't allowed to, the whole former Russian Empire as engulfed in a civil war over that very question, not to mention the colonial empires) or after WW2 (Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, the Arab Spring, Syria,...). The war that is on the horizon is not about the "good" vs. the "evil". It is about one revisionist, power hungry leader going toe-to-toe with another power-hungry block over territorial dominance. And about those people just wanting to live in peace caught in the middle.
- bryanrasmussen 5y agothanks, I suppose the NATO problem is that as the sole purpose of the forming of NATO was to act as a deterrent and implicit threat to the Soviet Union having a possible NATO country next to Russia itself, as opposed to having some buffer is seen as aggressive in itself?
- catlifeonmars 5y agoPure speculation, but maybe it’s calculated aggression based on an assumption that the west doesn’t have an appetite for war [with Russia] and will avoid doing so if possible.
- leobg 5y agoThat’s what Hitler counted on when he invaded Czechoslovakia.
- dotancohen 5y agoAnd it seems that both were not incorrect.
- leobg 5y agoHow so? Hitler got away with it. The Allies declared war on him only nine months later when he also invaded Poland. And even then, they only did it half-heartedly, and the French pretty much threw away their weapons when the first German panzers arrived. Hitler knew that he had the stronger will to fight. Had it not been for a few other factors (Churchill, Russian winter, and the Hitler's obsession with the jews), he could have taken the whole of Europe.
- dotancohen 5y agoExactly, Hitler was not incorrect in his assumption that the West did not have an appetite for war. He got away with it.
- rectang 5y agoA number of former Soviet satellite states joined NATO, but they chose to do so of their own volition. NATO does not prevent their self-determination. In contrast, Russia is denying self-determination to Ukraine.
- konart 5y agoSure, but what Russia was constantly telling NATO is that while Russia respects other countries' desire to join NATO - Russia believes that NATO should not allow those countries to join. Russia does not care about Ukraine's self-determination as long as NATO's systems are not there.
- mopsi 5y ago> Russia does not care about Ukraine's self-determination as long as NATO's systems are not there. NATO does not have "systems". NATO is a cooperation office between militaries of member countries, despite relentless Russian propaganda that makes it sound as if tanks and missiles magically pop up after signing the membership agreement.
- throwaway894345 5y agoRussia can’t respect other countries’ desire to join NATO while holding the position that they shouldn’t be allowed to join NATO. That’s patent nonsense.
- reitanqild 5y agoIt is not about Nato I think. I think this Finnish guy writes it clearly: https://mobile.twitter.com/jmkorhonen/status/1496047631969234944 https://mobile.twitter.com/jmkorhonen/status/149604763196923...
- konart 5y agoThis is very simplistic view. People often try to shrug it off as if Putin (or Hitler) "just wanted to grab more land". I don't really want to change anyone's mind and give a lecture. It's just that world is not as simple as it may seem.
- throwaway894345 5y agoI don’t understand “the NATO problem”. Even if Ukraine became part of NATO, all it would mean for Russia is that there will be consequences if they invade. How hard is it not to invade other countries, unprovoked?
- chefkoch 5y agoIt's the same reason why the US didn't want sowjet missiles in Cuba in the 60ies.
- beachy 5y agoThe US never invaded Cuba though. Well, not officially and certainly not effectively.
- hef19898 5y agoWell, they tried. And botched it. And almost started an nuclear war over a sea blockade of Cuba back then.
- woadwarrior01 5y agoUmm… Bay of Pigs? Which is what led to the Cuban missile crisis, along with the installation of nuclear capable ballistic missiles in Turkey. The US would have invaded Cuba during the Cuban missile crisis, if Khrushchev hadn’t backed down. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monroe_Doctrine https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monroe_Doctrine
- beachy 5y agoBay of pigs was not an official invasion and it certainly was not effective, hence my comment.
- 1024core 5y agoBut the US did put a blockade around Cuba. Any ships going to/from Cuba could be searched by the US.
- forlorn 5y agoPeople really fear war and economic sanctions, everyone around me are watching live currency exchange quotes and stock markets. Noboby around me supports the invasion or even understands why it's happening. It's like an abbyss between the head of the state and the people. Can't say for everyone of course.
- bcrosby95 5y agoMost people just want to live a relatively normal life with friends and family in their own little corner of the world. Unfortunately the vast majority of us are subject to the whims of those with greater power and ambitions.
- warner_of_doom 5y agoWe live and benefit from nation-states. We didn't choose that structure, but it is "natural" and just the way it is -- until we have some major technological breakthrough that changes that.
- adastra22 5y agoNation states are an incredibly recent phenomenon, and not something we have always lived with or are in any way natural or immutable.
- warner_of_doom 5y agoI think they just developed with scale.
- adastra22 5y agoIt’s actually more something that was invented in the treaties of Westphalia and which allowed the idea of the nation-state to scale in a way that prior forms of government could not. (With a few notable exceptions! Ancient Rome was basically a nation state, as was the Islamic empire in its height. Not coincidentally these both became large, stable empires.)
- gdy 5y agoAnother Russian here. I'm horrified and cannot believe this is happening.
- int_19h 5y agoDo keep in mind that, according to the official interpretation of events in Russia - which is all you get if you stick to the TV - it was Ukraine that started shooting and shelling civilians, and Russia is "peacekeeping". From some of my own relatives, I can attest that at least some people sincerely believe this.
- enaaem 5y agoIt’s interesting how US intelligence has countered Russian misinformation campaign by exactly predicting what was going to happen. For months Russia has denied they intended to invade. After finishing military preparations and the encirclement of Ukraine they suddenly changed tone in the course of a week.
- Buttons840 5y agoJust 5 days ago Putin was claiming that their military exercises near the border were over and the Russian military was withdrawing. Putin's withdrawal seems to be going quite poorly.
- hdjjhhvvhga 5y agoThis only shows that that any sentence they say might be a lie which eliminates any reason to have meaningful discussion with them. Now the behavior of Naryshkin is more clear. He knows they have to deal with a madman and sees no way out.
- seunosewa 5y agoWords coming out of a man like Putin are entirely meaningless. Only his actual actions matter.
- mattmaroon 5y ago“Oh guys, we got turned around and now we’re in the wrong country!”
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- MrDisposable 5y agoLong-time Russian HN user here, under a throwaway account and a VPN. The majority public sentiment hasn't formed yet. The war started in early morning, and many people are still hung-over due to yesterday holiday (the Russian Army day, BTW). My prediction is that there won't be a patriotic hysteria. People will be wary of possible consequences, which -- and I think everyone understands that -- may be severe. Medical drug prices will certainly go up, due to the fact that most drugs are imported. A high-tech / chip / electronics exports to Russia may be restricted. An oil & gas embargo may be imposed, which means that we're back to the 90's (though I think that Europe will be difficult to get on board, due to their dependency on Russia's energy). My personal current sentiment is that we may get completely isolated from the west, and that we'll have to form a closer alliance with China -- which I don't like. (A small consolation prize is that our corrupt "elites" will finally get what they deserve -- I expect heavy personal sanctions and foreign asset seizures).
- fisp78 5y agoThrowaway here. I work for a large US investment company that has a lot of Russian assets and staff. They are sticking their fingers in their ears and not even discussing this. I expect the sanctions will have minimal effect because there is such a complex web of investments. Individual staff are discussing exiting the company regularly over it rather than profiting from blood money. That’s all we can do.
- eurasiantiger 5y ago> Individual staff are discussing exiting the company regularly over it rather than profiting from blood money. That’s all we can do. You could also stop discussing and leave? Of course, the prospect of personal enrichment is more important than millions of people losing their homes, homelands, loved ones and lives.
- fisp78 5y agoIf we just leave we are replaced. If we put pressure on executives then we may be able to change something. Leaving is the last resort.
- select-all 5y agoI live in Crimea. People are sad, angry, and disappointed. And fatigued. Nobody wants war, but a lot of people feel like we're screwed either way. We avoided a war in 2014, and we can probably avoid it today, but that just means it will come tomorrow. And because people don't see a good way out of the situation, it feels like, whatever happens, just let it happen fast. "A horrible end is better than endless horror". I don't know how to explain all this to my kids. And how to keep them safe. I feel really sorry for everyone involved on all sides.
- reitanqild 5y agoHi Russian friends. Good to see you here and good to read your view. You might see me se me support Ukraine or be angry about Russia, but rest assured that I have nothing against Russians as a people, only the ones who tries to invade Ukraine etc. I'm living in the shadow of Russia too and I've just filled my spare water tanks with clean water and I'll fill my car and get some extra fuel for my cooking stove later today. I've already been training for a few months now, but I'm still hoping for a good miracle to avoid a full European war. For the rest of HN, don't forget the thing most preppers seems to ignore: as far as possible, be friendly towards everyone. If others want you to survive that should help a lot. Have a nice day everyone. Edit: when/if this ends maybe we can meet at the server again and play CS:GO or something :-) Edit 2: if anyone wonders, the official rule for prepping here in Norway includes stocking up with 9L of clean water for each person in the household, keeping some food that has long shelf life, radio, lights, batteries, some way to heat food and rooms even if the electricity disappears and to cooperate with neighbors if you cannot fix everything yourself (e.g. not all houses here have alternative heating sources except electricity).
- TestSIM1 5y ago+1 to this. Stay calm people and don't make any rush decisions. The time's been worse. We'll make it.
- 5e92cb50239222b 5y agoI am from one of the other countries bordering Russia. FWIW I have a lot of friends and relatives there, and don't know a single person who supports what's happening. The bald lunatic seems to have went completely insane. The problem is your voice doesn't mean much in that country. I nearly teared up reading the news this morning. Stay safe.
- philliphaydon 5y agoI think sometimes when talking about Russia or China it’s mistaken for the people of Russia or China when in reality it’s not criticism of the people but of the governments. We know majority of the people in those countries are good people and really just want to live their lives in happiness.
- fuy 5y ago+, Russian here. Putin will burn in hell. My thoughts are with Ukraine. Stay safe and fuck the war.