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"The government won’t say precisely how many American retirees live in Vietnam. Interviews with about a dozen such retirees suggest that some are here on one-ye

"The government won’t say precisely how many American retirees live in Vietnam. Interviews with about a dozen such retirees suggest that some are here on one-year tourist visas; others are here just for a season or two; and still others have qualified for long residence by marrying Vietnamese citizens, as Rockhold did." It's always odd to read stories like this. There's some kind of implication from the headline, or maybe even that the story was ever written, that there's a significant number of people doing this thing that's highlighted in the story. And then the story invariably will say that the actual number of people doing this thing is not really known, or is pretty low. Seems like you could write this story about so many different groups of people doing a thing. Maybe that's just the point, find a person doing something that's worth writing about and make it a more interesting story? Not really anything wrong with any of it I suppose, it's just usually obvious from the headline that the actual number of Americans retiring to Vietnam is pretty low. Maybe indication of some kind of new trend, especially after people read this it brings more people over?

causi 5y ago
I don't know about "new". I know two different people who decided on early retirement in Vietnam, one a decade ago and the other almost that long.
bmarquez 5y ago
> And then the story invariably will say that the actual number of people doing this thing is not really known, or is pretty low. I think some people are also using the wrong types of visas and not wanting to make their identities public to avoid trouble. Especially the "tourist visa" people in the article. I knew people (pre-pandemic) who would participate in "visa runs" in Thailand. I tried a visa run once, but suspect that I did it repeatedly it would arise suspicion. There are also longer educational visas in Thailand, and some educational programs advertise how little time commitment is required (since actual learning didn't seem to be the point).
- CitizenKane 5y ago
  At least in Thailand visa runs are commonplace for a whole host of different folks. Some people I knew got into a little trouble, however by and large it wasn't frequent. That being said, in Thailand there would be no need to for retirees as they have a retirement visa scheme that allow for renewal in country.
- tluyben2 5y ago
  Business startup visas as well which work pretty well. But it takes effort to get everything organised.
- tim333 5y ago
  The system is a bit odd in Vietnam due to its nominally communist status. You generally talk to a visa agent who goes to the relevant government department to sort it and you are in theory part of a tour group though it's a bit of a loophole. In practice once you have your visa they let you in without problems - I've know people staying on repeating 3 month tourist visas for years. The Thai's system is different.
dfxm12 5y ago
Seems like you could write this story about so many different groups of people doing a thing. You can, and the World, Lifestyle, etc. sections of newspapers like the LA Times often do. It's just a personal interest puff piece.
Wiseacre 5y ago
I cannot read the article because there is a paywall, but does the author imply that it is a new trend? It can be worthy of coverage even if it isn't trendy, provided the author does not cast it as such.
jbay808 5y ago
Headlines omit some grammar which readers infer themselves, meaning that most people will read "Americans retiring to Vietnam for..." as: Americans are now retiring to Vietnam for... When another valid reading is: Here are some Americans retiring to Vietnam for...
Wohlf 5y ago
Retiring to a cheaper country isn't a new trend, it's just more difficult than retiring to Florida for Americans or Southern Europe for Europeans so most people wouldn't go to the effort.
- TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
  It's really not at all difficult for Europeans to retire to Southern Europe. It's not even that difficult for Americans to retire to Southern Europe.
  - inglor_cz 5y ago
    As long as you do not need the Greek authorities to do something for you...
  - mellavora 5y ago
    Unless you want to stay longer than allowed by a Schengen visa, or if you want to open a local bank account, or access local healthcare, or
    - pmontra 5y ago
      EU banks don't want US citizens as customers however residents have a right to a basic payment account. Details at https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/financial-products-and-services/bank-accounts-eu/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/financial-pr...
      - saiya-jin 5y ago
        US did this to themselves, FATCA et al pushed very aggressively by US government through regional/EU governments. Same goes for ie Switzerland, land for US retirees on very opposite wealth spectrum compared to this article. Now there is like 1 bank in the land of banks that accepts US citizens. And first part of the OP's statement is true - its easy to retire into southern Europe from wealthier parts of Europe. Quality of life, safety, healthcare etc is usually more than fine.
caseysoftware 5y ago
> Maybe indication of some kind of new trend, especially after people read this it brings more people over? There's reporting on a trend and there's trying to create the trend. It's often hard to tell which it is, especially when you have PR consultants who work with corporate press outlets to spin, imply, shape, and create a narrative that is plausible and has a few supporting data points. It's the PR equivalent of "fake it until you make it"
- vineyardmike 5y ago
  Its more "fake it to make it"
subsubzero 5y ago
These stories are strange, its like a journalistic slant that I have seen alot of recently whereby costs have gotten so high(in the US) people are now living in previously war-torn countries like kings. Some people are always moving to Mexico or Thailand or another lower cost area from the US, its not news as it has always been happening. I see no hard statistics or numbers mentioned in this article, just a few stories from individuals who have chosen this move to Vietnam. I feel like its a clickbait type story to scratch the "itch" of people struggling with the skyrocketing cost of living in CA/NY etc and also dealing with record high inflation.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  Exactly. "Retire to Mexico" has been a meme ever since "retire to Cuba" became impractical. It's basically "retire to Idaho/Colorado" but for people of more modest means.
  - parineum 5y ago
    > "retire to Idaho/Colorado" What happened to Arizona/Florida?
    - ghaff 5y ago
      I think they're still extremely common but I'm guessing maybe less so in the circles of people here who may be less into activities like golfing.
    - celdon25 5y ago
      > What happened to Arizona/Florida? Both are overpopulated now. I live in a peripheral suburb outside of Phoenix, AZ, first moving to the state in 2007. My rent has gone up by $500 just in the last 6 months. There's talk among the locals that the water supply won't sustain this growth. Florida is in much worse shape from what I hear but I can't speak on specifics. I know the cost of living there is insane though. I'd pick Idaho or maybe rural CO if I were to do it over.
Clubber 5y ago
>Seems like you could write this story about so many different groups of people doing a thing. Yes, there's a lot of questions about this type of article. Why about Vietnam when Americans go to many other countries or even US states for cheaper retirement? Why put "healthcare" before "decent standard of living" in the title? Why make it sound like a lot more people are doing it when the author really has no idea how many people are specifically going to Vietnam for healthcare and decent standard of living? Why is it in the "World & Nation" section rather than Travel? Is the author trying to plant a seed of some sort or make a statement, or is it just boring filler to fill pages in a slow news day?
rayiner 5y ago
I also find these articles odd because of the tension between what I assume are the liberal values of the authors and the nature of the moves. Cheap and luxurious expat living is bankrolled by the relative poverty of the native people. Yeah, having a bunch of servants has it’s charms. When I was a kid in Bangladesh my dad worked for a Planned Parenthood affiliate. We had a cook, a nanny, a maid, and a driver on what was maybe the equivalent of a $65,000 salary today. But that’s possible because people are poor. My dad has this story where he sent our cook’s teenage son with some money to get some cigarettes. And he couldn’t bring himself to buy them because a pack cost as much as what he was paid in a week. In my mind people who want to live that kind of lifestyle are kind of morally defective.
- tasspeed 5y ago
  Highly agree. Why would you want to just keep up the cycle of poverty? Especially the fact that this guy is 66 and had kids with a Vietnamese woman who is most definitely 40 years younger than him. I see it all too often where white men take advantage of south east Asian women and live comfortably by keeping others in poverty.
  - burner556 5y ago
    Keeping others in poverty by spending in the local economy and employing locals?
    - thatcat 5y ago
      I mean gentrification is a thing but it takes a lot of demand in the area
  - krageon 5y ago
    > take advantage You are assuming that these hypothetical "south east Asian women" are being exploited due to their contrast with "white men" i.e.: - They are not white - They are women And they are being exploited solely because of these factors. This is both racist and sexist, which is just entirely a bad starting point for a view of the world. Everyone that you speak of has agency and makes choices. Perhaps you feel one side has been coerced, but frankly I do not see it from what you've pointed out here. All I see is people using the agency they have to make life choices that they think are best. That's a good thing.
teddyh 5y ago
“Americans are being crushed by falling grand pianos”
evancordell 5y ago
There should be some variant of Betteridge's law[0] for headlines like this, where you insert some arbitrary, small number into the headline: "5 Americans are retiring to Vietnam, for cheap healthcare and a decent standard of living" doesn't have quite the same ring to it. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headline...
celdon25 5y ago
This is the LA Times we're talking about - Manage your expectations accordingly.
anm89 5y ago
I spent a lot of time thinking about this while I was traveling and would come across large numbers of people who are in really niche communities and the math didn't make sense to me. The obvious answer in reteospect is that the world is huge and a tiny percentage of people doing anything equals a large number of people. If 1 in 10,000 Americans are doing this that's still a huge group.
xtiansimon 5y ago
> “ doing this thing that's highlighted in the story. And then the story invariably will say that the actual number of people doing this thing is not really known, or is pretty low. Seems like you could write this story about so many different groups of people doing a thing.” Think of it from the perspective of the community of people who believe the ideology How do you survive in these foreign lands as an expatriate? Through a community of like minded people, with networking and mutual support. Special communities love to share their stories, or you may say they’re not just spectators but participants in their community. Once you get your head around that, then consider all the people who don’t share their stories, and instead live in the _default_ world.

causi 5y ago

I don't know about "new". I know two different people who decided on early retirement in Vietnam, one a decade ago and the other almost that long.

bmarquez 5y ago

> And then the story invariably will say that the actual number of people doing this thing is not really known, or is pretty low. I think some people are also using the wrong types of visas and not wanting to make their identities public to avoid trouble. Especially the "tourist visa" people in the article. I knew people (pre-pandemic) who would participate in "visa runs" in Thailand. I tried a visa run once, but suspect that I did it repeatedly it would arise suspicion. There are also longer educational visas in Thailand, and some educational programs advertise how little time commitment is required (since actual learning didn't seem to be the point).

CitizenKane 5y ago
At least in Thailand visa runs are commonplace for a whole host of different folks. Some people I knew got into a little trouble, however by and large it wasn't frequent. That being said, in Thailand there would be no need to for retirees as they have a retirement visa scheme that allow for renewal in country.
tluyben2 5y ago
Business startup visas as well which work pretty well. But it takes effort to get everything organised.
tim333 5y ago
The system is a bit odd in Vietnam due to its nominally communist status. You generally talk to a visa agent who goes to the relevant government department to sort it and you are in theory part of a tour group though it's a bit of a loophole. In practice once you have your visa they let you in without problems - I've know people staying on repeating 3 month tourist visas for years. The Thai's system is different.

dfxm12 5y ago

Seems like you could write this story about so many different groups of people doing a thing. You can, and the World, Lifestyle, etc. sections of newspapers like the LA Times often do. It's just a personal interest puff piece.

Wiseacre 5y ago

I cannot read the article because there is a paywall, but does the author imply that it is a new trend? It can be worthy of coverage even if it isn't trendy, provided the author does not cast it as such.

jbay808 5y ago

Headlines omit some grammar which readers infer themselves, meaning that most people will read "Americans retiring to Vietnam for..." as: Americans are now retiring to Vietnam for... When another valid reading is: Here are some Americans retiring to Vietnam for...

Wohlf 5y ago

Retiring to a cheaper country isn't a new trend, it's just more difficult than retiring to Florida for Americans or Southern Europe for Europeans so most people wouldn't go to the effort.

TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
It's really not at all difficult for Europeans to retire to Southern Europe. It's not even that difficult for Americans to retire to Southern Europe.
- inglor_cz 5y ago
  As long as you do not need the Greek authorities to do something for you...
- mellavora 5y ago
  Unless you want to stay longer than allowed by a Schengen visa, or if you want to open a local bank account, or access local healthcare, or
  - pmontra 5y ago
    EU banks don't want US citizens as customers however residents have a right to a basic payment account. Details at https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/financial-products-and-services/bank-accounts-eu/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/financial-pr...
    - saiya-jin 5y ago
      US did this to themselves, FATCA et al pushed very aggressively by US government through regional/EU governments. Same goes for ie Switzerland, land for US retirees on very opposite wealth spectrum compared to this article. Now there is like 1 bank in the land of banks that accepts US citizens. And first part of the OP's statement is true - its easy to retire into southern Europe from wealthier parts of Europe. Quality of life, safety, healthcare etc is usually more than fine.

caseysoftware 5y ago

> Maybe indication of some kind of new trend, especially after people read this it brings more people over? There's reporting on a trend and there's trying to create the trend. It's often hard to tell which it is, especially when you have PR consultants who work with corporate press outlets to spin, imply, shape, and create a narrative that is plausible and has a few supporting data points. It's the PR equivalent of "fake it until you make it"

vineyardmike 5y ago
Its more "fake it to make it"

subsubzero 5y ago

These stories are strange, its like a journalistic slant that I have seen alot of recently whereby costs have gotten so high(in the US) people are now living in previously war-torn countries like kings. Some people are always moving to Mexico or Thailand or another lower cost area from the US, its not news as it has always been happening. I see no hard statistics or numbers mentioned in this article, just a few stories from individuals who have chosen this move to Vietnam. I feel like its a clickbait type story to scratch the "itch" of people struggling with the skyrocketing cost of living in CA/NY etc and also dealing with record high inflation.

throwaway0a5e 5y ago
Exactly. "Retire to Mexico" has been a meme ever since "retire to Cuba" became impractical. It's basically "retire to Idaho/Colorado" but for people of more modest means.
- parineum 5y ago
  > "retire to Idaho/Colorado" What happened to Arizona/Florida?
  - ghaff 5y ago
    I think they're still extremely common but I'm guessing maybe less so in the circles of people here who may be less into activities like golfing.
  - celdon25 5y ago
    > What happened to Arizona/Florida? Both are overpopulated now. I live in a peripheral suburb outside of Phoenix, AZ, first moving to the state in 2007. My rent has gone up by $500 just in the last 6 months. There's talk among the locals that the water supply won't sustain this growth. Florida is in much worse shape from what I hear but I can't speak on specifics. I know the cost of living there is insane though. I'd pick Idaho or maybe rural CO if I were to do it over.

Clubber 5y ago

>Seems like you could write this story about so many different groups of people doing a thing. Yes, there's a lot of questions about this type of article. Why about Vietnam when Americans go to many other countries or even US states for cheaper retirement? Why put "healthcare" before "decent standard of living" in the title? Why make it sound like a lot more people are doing it when the author really has no idea how many people are specifically going to Vietnam for healthcare and decent standard of living? Why is it in the "World & Nation" section rather than Travel? Is the author trying to plant a seed of some sort or make a statement, or is it just boring filler to fill pages in a slow news day?

rayiner 5y ago

I also find these articles odd because of the tension between what I assume are the liberal values of the authors and the nature of the moves. Cheap and luxurious expat living is bankrolled by the relative poverty of the native people. Yeah, having a bunch of servants has it’s charms. When I was a kid in Bangladesh my dad worked for a Planned Parenthood affiliate. We had a cook, a nanny, a maid, and a driver on what was maybe the equivalent of a $65,000 salary today. But that’s possible because people are poor. My dad has this story where he sent our cook’s teenage son with some money to get some cigarettes. And he couldn’t bring himself to buy them because a pack cost as much as what he was paid in a week. In my mind people who want to live that kind of lifestyle are kind of morally defective.

tasspeed 5y ago
Highly agree. Why would you want to just keep up the cycle of poverty? Especially the fact that this guy is 66 and had kids with a Vietnamese woman who is most definitely 40 years younger than him. I see it all too often where white men take advantage of south east Asian women and live comfortably by keeping others in poverty.
- burner556 5y ago
  Keeping others in poverty by spending in the local economy and employing locals?
  - thatcat 5y ago
    I mean gentrification is a thing but it takes a lot of demand in the area
- krageon 5y ago
  > take advantage You are assuming that these hypothetical "south east Asian women" are being exploited due to their contrast with "white men" i.e.: - They are not white - They are women And they are being exploited solely because of these factors. This is both racist and sexist, which is just entirely a bad starting point for a view of the world. Everyone that you speak of has agency and makes choices. Perhaps you feel one side has been coerced, but frankly I do not see it from what you've pointed out here. All I see is people using the agency they have to make life choices that they think are best. That's a good thing.

teddyh 5y ago

“Americans are being crushed by falling grand pianos”

evancordell 5y ago

There should be some variant of Betteridge's law[0] for headlines like this, where you insert some arbitrary, small number into the headline: "5 Americans are retiring to Vietnam, for cheap healthcare and a decent standard of living" doesn't have quite the same ring to it. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headline...

celdon25 5y ago

This is the LA Times we're talking about - Manage your expectations accordingly.

anm89 5y ago

I spent a lot of time thinking about this while I was traveling and would come across large numbers of people who are in really niche communities and the math didn't make sense to me. The obvious answer in reteospect is that the world is huge and a tiny percentage of people doing anything equals a large number of people. If 1 in 10,000 Americans are doing this that's still a huge group.

xtiansimon 5y ago

> “ doing this thing that's highlighted in the story. And then the story invariably will say that the actual number of people doing this thing is not really known, or is pretty low. Seems like you could write this story about so many different groups of people doing a thing.” Think of it from the perspective of the community of people who believe the ideology How do you survive in these foreign lands as an expatriate? Through a community of like minded people, with networking and mutual support. Special communities love to share their stories, or you may say they’re not just spectators but participants in their community. Once you get your head around that, then consider all the people who don’t share their stories, and instead live in the _default_ world.