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> The Emergencies Act is the modern-day replacement to the War Measures Act. It allows the federal government to force companies to provide services, it can req

> The Emergencies Act is the modern-day replacement to the War Measures Act. It allows the federal government to force companies to provide services, it can require public protests to end, and limit mobility rights by preventing people from moving to designating areas. > > The act also allows for the military to be used as police, but several sources said that is not under active consideration. Not a good look for Trudeau. This definitely looks like an authoritarian response to a loss of mandate. The protestors will dig in more, the response will become harsher, and the government will be in deeper trouble.

itslennysfault 5y ago
Yeeeeeah, I don't know about that. Anyone with their truck there risks forfeiting the asset that was used in commission of a crime. AKA their livelihood and likely most expensive asset. There is certainly not a bottomless pit of people wishing to do that.
- tomohawk 5y ago
  So, instead of stopping and blockading, people just start driving the minimum legal speed everywhere. Totally legal, but would totally get the point across. And you don't need a truck.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- e4e78a06 5y ago
  Confiscating peoples' assets does not exactly engender you to a lot of political support. You're risking a massive loss in the next elections if you do that, just like how Democrats in the US are also facing huge electoral pressures on crime and COVID restrictions [1]. [1]: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/08/us/politics/new-york-mask-mandate.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/08/us/politics/new-york-mask...
  - tedivm 5y ago
    This idea that there's a crime wave seems to be pushed here and on reddit by month old accounts with no real proof. The reality is that crime is down in most places. Lets look at San Francisco. I'm going to get my stats right from the San Francisco Police Department. Homocide - Down 20% Rape - Down 23.8% Robbery - Down 20.7% Assault - Down 8.8% Human Trafficking - Down 83.3% Burglary - Down 45.4% Motor Vehicle Theft - Down 6% Arson - Down 7.9% Larceny Theft - Up 12.8% Year over year the only type of crime that is up is Larceny Theft, and most of that is shoplifting. Everything else is down, and some of it by significant margins. There is no real basis for this "crime wave" people keep talking about. That pressure is really just right wing propaganda. https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/crime-dashboard https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/crim... Quick Edit: When I published this the stats were only current to February 6th, but they were updated after I posted with data up to the 13th. So my numbers above are going to be slightly off, but you can confirm them by changing the timeframe to end on the 6th.
    - slibhb 5y ago
      > There is no real basis for this "crime wave" people keep talking about. That pressure is really just right wing propaganda. Some "right wing propaganda" from the NYT: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/18/briefing/crime-surge-homicides-us.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/18/briefing/crime-surge-homi... And WaPo: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/01/21/homicide-rates-have-soared-nationwide-mayors-see-chance-turnaround-2022 https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/01/21/homicide-ra... And The Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/28/san-francisco-bay-area-gun-violence-murders-2020 https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/28/san-francisc...
      - throwaway894345 5y ago
        In the same vein as the GP comment, one of my favorites is The Guardian "Everyone needs to relax, it's just a rise in murders, not a rise in crime". Whew! https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jun/30/us-crime-rate-homcides-explained https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jun/30/us-crime-rat...
- ipaddr 5y ago
  The people who have their lives taken away have little left to live for. The increases the violence and grows a movement you want to stop. If Trudeau opened debate weeks ago I wonder where we would be today.
  - tonfreed 5y ago
    He was never going to do that. The media immediately started on the "truckers are Nazis" line and took that option off the table.
    - malermeister 5y ago
      - throwaway894345 5y ago
        It’s not like Trudeau is exactly a paragon of egalitarianism or racial sensitivity.
      - rasz 5y ago
        canadian-on-hn 5y ago
        If you haven't heard the term before, this kind of response is called called "whataboutism": > Whataboutism or whataboutery (as in "what about…?") is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy, which attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving the argument. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
        rasz 5y ago
        No its not. This is pointing out hypocrisy.
- tonfreed 5y ago
  Sounds a little silly to confiscate the assets of the people bringing the food to your table. That and the towies in the area are refusing to move any of the trucks. Trudeau just looks weak at this point, and for a prime minister that got in because of his good looks and his dad's popularity it's not a good omen.
  - jsjsbdkj 5y ago
    Surprisingly, I still have food on my table even though none of these people have worked in 3 weeks. If you're going to have a strike, you need to actually have an impact. Heavy equipment tow operators have recieved threats of violence, which is why at least some of them have not helped.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - skyde 5y ago
    you know those trucker do not represent all trucker. The one protesting probably make less than 5% of all trucker.
  - spartanatreyu 5y ago
    The vast majority of truckers understand the benefits of masks and vaccines to society as a whole. The ones protesting are either uber-libertarians (and possibly also "sovereign citizens"), dis-educated, or have some sort of mental/emotional shortcoming where they will resist any sort of directive given to them even if it goes in their in their interest. Sometimes people will lash out anyone who gives a helpful order because they feel like they're losing control.
  - malermeister 5y ago
    90% of truckers are vaccinated. [0] This isn't "truckers" protesting, this is the radical fringe. [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/01/28/canada-truckers-convoy-ottawa-covid/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/01/28/canada-truck...
    - 5y ago
barbazoo 5y ago
What should be done differently? In Alberta restrictions have been lifted but the occupation of the border still hasn't ended.
- dblohm7 5y ago
  Not only that, but a cache of weapons and ammunition was seized from a trailer at that blockade.
  - etimberg 5y ago
    Source for those who are curious https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/coutts-protest-blockade-arrests-rcmp-monday-1.6351112 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/coutts-protest-blocka...
- __blockcipher__ 5y ago
  Alberta hasn’t fully lifted the restrictions, nor has Kenney taken the option of reinstating the restrictions off the table.
  - SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
    Firstly, he has a timeline for removing most restrictions, so there should be progress there, and secondly, why should he have to promise that? In case conditions change, say a much more deadly form of COVID, those restrictions may be needed. That demand seems unreasonable.
    - __blockcipher__ 5y ago
      And the truckers and everyone else on their side feels that leaving the emergency powers in the hands of the government is unreasonable. Thus why the two respective sides are at an impasse.
  - newuser94303 5y ago
    The last time he removed the restrictions, he managed to create the worst Covid in Canada and had to apologize.
2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
Yeah, not a good look. He should have cleared this economic terrorism sooner.
karpierz 5y ago
Pierre Trudeau did far worse with the War Measures Act, which gave the government sweeping powers of arrest and detention without trial. Whether this will be a bad look on the government's part (from the public's perspective) depends on whether they can resolve this without incident. Unclear if the protestors will be able to dig in further if they're arrested for the various city laws they've broken. I suspect that if Trudeau enforces Ottawa laws (which the police haven't), then stands down, this won't hurt public perception.
- BeefWellington 5y ago
  To add on to this, the Emergency Act was designed to replace the War Measures Act explicitly because of what Trudeau Senior did. It has a TON of caveats to it and requires ongoing review and is time limited. Nothing that is done under the Emergency Act is allowed to contravene the constitution. The posters here decrying this as authoritarian don't understand anything about Canadian law, experience, or mindset and are going by what they're fed by their individual media source of choice. The War Measures Act invocation by Pierre Trudeau was one of the most singularly divisive moments (some would argue it was necessary, some would argue the opposite) in Canadian history, and made parliament realize they needed to rein in the Prime Minister's powers.
MattGaiser 5y ago
> Two-thirds of Canadians support military force to end Ottawa protests: poll https://toronto.citynews.ca/2022/02/12/two-thirds-of-canadians-support-military-force-to-end-ottawa-protests-poll/ https://toronto.citynews.ca/2022/02/12/two-thirds-of-canadia... The current approach seems to be a lot more mild than what the public would accept.
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  - dang 5y ago
    Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar hell. This internet track leads nowhere interesting. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - jabthedang 5y ago
- edmcnulty101 5y ago
  A few years ago, there was an online poll to name a new scientific research boat. The boat ended up being named 'boaty mcboatface' I don't know how much I take stock in online polls especially made by partisan sources. Huffington post did an online poll about who would win the 2016 presidential election. Hillary Clinton received around 99% of the votes.
  - makoz 5y ago
    Do you have an issue with the polling methodology they used in the survey? Source on it being an online poll?
  - geenew 5y ago
    Who said anything about an online poll? “ The poll was conducted Feb. 9 and 10, 2022 among a random selection of 1,506 Canadian adults who are Maru Voice Canada panelists and is accurate within +/- 2.5 per cent, 19 times out of 20.” It’s right there in the linked article.
colechristensen 5y ago
It doesn't look like, it is authoritarian response to something which should be protected. Using government power intended for things like war to suppress a protest is ridiculous, if this is what being "liberal" is about, I'm out. I hope the response is a protest escalation. Not my country, not my protest, but I know who I'm rooting for. Contrast this to what was happening in Minneapolis a couple of summers ago... people burning down buildings, shops, and police stations and the fire and police literally afraid to go places in the city until we had armed forces marching through the streets. Those are the kind of popular uprisings that need to be dealt with, not streets being blocked by unhappy people.
- s5300 5y ago
  Damage in Minneapolis was mostly confined to a singular street. Singular. At no point were fire and police “afraid” to go places in the city either, though I can imagine you may have been watching certain “news” coverage that may have claimed that.
  - jcadam 5y ago
    I don't think they were afraid. I think they were under orders not to interfere with the rioters.
  - xienze 5y ago
    > At no point were fire and police “afraid” to go places in the city either They completely abandoned a police precinct which was promptly burned down [0]. Pretty safe to say they were afraid to stay at their own building! 0: https://www.twincities.com/2020/05/28/minneapolis-police-abandon-third-precinct-hq-as-george-floyd-protesters-pull-down-fences/amp/ https://www.twincities.com/2020/05/28/minneapolis-police-aba...
  - colechristensen 5y ago
    I've spent more than a decade living in Minneapolis, I wasn't confused by crazy news sources. >At no point were fire and police “afraid” to go places in the city either The police abandoned the 3rd precinct station which was burned down later that night. How's that for being afraid to be in a place? There were plenty of stories of fire trucks not going places for security reasons, and eventually firemen had national guard escorts. I don't know what that is besides "being afraid" to go places in the city. >>“We were faced with these fail fail fail options,” Mr. Frey (Minneapolis mayor) said. “We were literally having to choose between preventing additional looting, protecting a precinct and providing escorts to firefighters to put out fires. There was no way we could do all three.” >Damage in Minneapolis was mostly confined to a singular street. A main street which crossed the cities, miles long. And damage wasn't at all confined there. There were several hot spots around the cities. >I can imagine you may have been watching certain “news” coverage that may have claimed that. Well, here's the New York Times backing up my claims. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/03/us/minneapolis-government-george-floyd.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/03/us/minneapolis-government...
pkd 5y ago
There is no loss of mandate, if the opinion polls are anything to go by. Besides, the Canadian people chose the government in the middle of the pandemic last year. Is there a more comprehensive definition of a "mandate" than a federal election? Whether the response is authoritarian depends on how it is enforced. The police have basically failed to enforce any law on the occupiers on parliament hill (I live here). If the local enforcement had happened preemptively and as per the law, the situation wouldn't have escalated as far as it has done.
- School-Cotton 5y ago
  > Is there a more comprehensive definition of a "mandate" than a federal election? Governments chosen by a first-past-the-post system can barely be considered democratically legitimate, if at all.
  - dubcanada 5y ago
    Well that’s a silly thing to say. I don’t like governments elected on Tuesday. I’d prefer Wednesday. See that’s another silly thing said. Your opinions of FPTP voting have absolutely nothing to do with anything. The government was elected as per the defined rules.
    - School-Cotton 5y ago
      North Korea's government was also elected as per the defined rules. It would be absurd to claim that that means it's democratically legitimate. > I don’t like governments elected on Tuesday. I’d prefer Wednesday. FPTP vs. good election systems is not a trivial distinction like this, so your analogy is invalid.
      - geenew 5y ago
        And yet somehow there is regular turnover of the governing party approximately every 10 years, and the dominant parties have almost to a one been centrist. Not a terrible system.
jsnodlin 5y ago
Eddy_Viscosity2 5y ago
He wouldn't have had to invoke emergency act if the Ottawa municipal police, the ones responsible for maintaining order in the city of Ottawa, did anything at all. They sat on their asses for weeks. The municipal leadership was non-existent, the ontario provincial leadership was non-existent, so what's left?
- rasz 5y ago
  Non action is an action by itself, of support for the cause.
- BeefWellington 5y ago
  Luckily Ottawa will be electing new leadership in the coming months.
jsjsbdkj 5y ago
There's no "loss of mandate". The Canadian people are overwhelmingly vaccinated and don't mind wearing masks. 90+% of truckers are fully vaccinated. Canadians re-elected Trudeau during the pandemic. The issue is that Ottawa Police were afraid of media backlash if they did any crowd control for the initial "protest" weekend. This allowed the occupiers to move in heavy machinery as barricades. When the weekend ended and the trucks didn't move, they realized they were dealing with something closer to an insurrection than a protest, and they've been impotent to stop it since. THe people of Ottawa overwhelmingly support ending the occupation. It has terrorized women, queer people and people of color on the streets. They've been violent and confrontational with front-line workers, which forced two grocery stores to close their doors, plus a large mall. There have been two documented attempts to burn down residential apartment buildings and trap the occupants inside. This weekend hundreds of Ottawa residents marched in a counter-protest, and also blocked the road and held up a convoy of trucks for more than 8 hours. The occupiers are a small group of people who are acting badly - shitting in the streets, getting drunk, blaring their horns, and using their children as human shields. Everyone will celebrate when they're gone for good.
- YarickR2 5y ago
  Everyone or hundreds of residents ?
- torstenvl 5y ago
  > There's no "loss of mandate" https://angusreid.org/trudeau-tracker/ https://angusreid.org/trudeau-tracker/ "A new Angus Reid poll showed that 54% of Canadians support an immediate halt to all pandemic restrictions, a stark contrast to the 56% who said as recently as in December they would have supported another round of lockdowns over Omicron." https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/2022/02/13/2662060/half-of-canadians-say-trudeau-not-up-to-job-poll/amp https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/2022/02/13/2662060/half-o...
  - pkd 5y ago
    You didn't actually link to an article on Angus Reid. Here's one: > As the country rolls into another week of uncertainty, nearly three-quarters of Canadians (72%) say the time has come for protesters to “go home, they have made their point.” https://angusreid.org/trudeau-convoy-trucker-protest-vaccine-mandates-covid-19/ https://angusreid.org/trudeau-convoy-trucker-protest-vaccine...
tlear 5y ago
It really reminds me of the situation in the USSR in the 1991. Trudeau will call in the army, what the army will do is not what he expects I suspect. He is digging his own grave. Hopefully it will not come down to Ceaușescu resolution
- bawolff 5y ago
  Trudeau says he is not calling in the army, and besides that would be a provincial rsponsibility i think so it would be up to the premier.
  - tlear 5y ago
    He is not calling it today. We will see next week or week after.
bawolff 5y ago
> This definitely looks like an authoritarian response to a loss of mandate. He has a minority government. A weak one at that. If he really lost his mandate there would be a snap election already.
- jsjsbdkj 5y ago
  On COVID issues the NDP, Bloc and Libs are aligned which is a significant majority. Also we just had an election and nothing changed. The Liberals with a minority is actually an indication that Canada wants to be further left than Trudeau, but we haven't gotten there yet.
  - n_plus_1 5y ago
    The entirety of the Bloc just voted yea on the motion with the conservatives for the government to propose a concrete plan to end covid mandates today, along with 1 Liberal that Joel guy who dissented from his party.
bawolff 5y ago
> The act also allows for the military to be used as police, Say what now? Which part of the act allows that? I skimmed through it and didn't see anything relevant.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
gorwell 5y ago
All tyrannies rule through fraud and force, but once the fraud is exposed they must rely exclusively on force.

itslennysfault 5y ago

Yeeeeeah, I don't know about that. Anyone with their truck there risks forfeiting the asset that was used in commission of a crime. AKA their livelihood and likely most expensive asset. There is certainly not a bottomless pit of people wishing to do that.

tomohawk 5y ago
So, instead of stopping and blockading, people just start driving the minimum legal speed everywhere. Totally legal, but would totally get the point across. And you don't need a truck.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
e4e78a06 5y ago
Confiscating peoples' assets does not exactly engender you to a lot of political support. You're risking a massive loss in the next elections if you do that, just like how Democrats in the US are also facing huge electoral pressures on crime and COVID restrictions [1]. [1]: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/08/us/politics/new-york-mask-mandate.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/08/us/politics/new-york-mask...
- tedivm 5y ago
  This idea that there's a crime wave seems to be pushed here and on reddit by month old accounts with no real proof. The reality is that crime is down in most places. Lets look at San Francisco. I'm going to get my stats right from the San Francisco Police Department. Homocide - Down 20% Rape - Down 23.8% Robbery - Down 20.7% Assault - Down 8.8% Human Trafficking - Down 83.3% Burglary - Down 45.4% Motor Vehicle Theft - Down 6% Arson - Down 7.9% Larceny Theft - Up 12.8% Year over year the only type of crime that is up is Larceny Theft, and most of that is shoplifting. Everything else is down, and some of it by significant margins. There is no real basis for this "crime wave" people keep talking about. That pressure is really just right wing propaganda. https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/crime-dashboard https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/crim... Quick Edit: When I published this the stats were only current to February 6th, but they were updated after I posted with data up to the 13th. So my numbers above are going to be slightly off, but you can confirm them by changing the timeframe to end on the 6th.
  - slibhb 5y ago
    > There is no real basis for this "crime wave" people keep talking about. That pressure is really just right wing propaganda. Some "right wing propaganda" from the NYT: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/18/briefing/crime-surge-homicides-us.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/18/briefing/crime-surge-homi... And WaPo: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/01/21/homicide-rates-have-soared-nationwide-mayors-see-chance-turnaround-2022 https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/01/21/homicide-ra... And The Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/28/san-francisco-bay-area-gun-violence-murders-2020 https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/28/san-francisc...
    - throwaway894345 5y ago
      In the same vein as the GP comment, one of my favorites is The Guardian "Everyone needs to relax, it's just a rise in murders, not a rise in crime". Whew! https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jun/30/us-crime-rate-homcides-explained https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jun/30/us-crime-rat...
ipaddr 5y ago
The people who have their lives taken away have little left to live for. The increases the violence and grows a movement you want to stop. If Trudeau opened debate weeks ago I wonder where we would be today.
- tonfreed 5y ago
  He was never going to do that. The media immediately started on the "truckers are Nazis" line and took that option off the table.
  - malermeister 5y ago
    - throwaway894345 5y ago
      It’s not like Trudeau is exactly a paragon of egalitarianism or racial sensitivity.
    - rasz 5y ago
      - canadian-on-hn 5y ago
        If you haven't heard the term before, this kind of response is called called "whataboutism": > Whataboutism or whataboutery (as in "what about…?") is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy, which attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving the argument. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
        rasz 5y ago
        No its not. This is pointing out hypocrisy.
tonfreed 5y ago
Sounds a little silly to confiscate the assets of the people bringing the food to your table. That and the towies in the area are refusing to move any of the trucks. Trudeau just looks weak at this point, and for a prime minister that got in because of his good looks and his dad's popularity it's not a good omen.
- jsjsbdkj 5y ago
  Surprisingly, I still have food on my table even though none of these people have worked in 3 weeks. If you're going to have a strike, you need to actually have an impact. Heavy equipment tow operators have recieved threats of violence, which is why at least some of them have not helped.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- skyde 5y ago
  you know those trucker do not represent all trucker. The one protesting probably make less than 5% of all trucker.
- spartanatreyu 5y ago
  The vast majority of truckers understand the benefits of masks and vaccines to society as a whole. The ones protesting are either uber-libertarians (and possibly also "sovereign citizens"), dis-educated, or have some sort of mental/emotional shortcoming where they will resist any sort of directive given to them even if it goes in their in their interest. Sometimes people will lash out anyone who gives a helpful order because they feel like they're losing control.
- malermeister 5y ago
  90% of truckers are vaccinated. [0] This isn't "truckers" protesting, this is the radical fringe. [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/01/28/canada-truckers-convoy-ottawa-covid/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/01/28/canada-truck...
  - 5y ago

barbazoo 5y ago

What should be done differently? In Alberta restrictions have been lifted but the occupation of the border still hasn't ended.

dblohm7 5y ago
Not only that, but a cache of weapons and ammunition was seized from a trailer at that blockade.
- etimberg 5y ago
  Source for those who are curious https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/coutts-protest-blockade-arrests-rcmp-monday-1.6351112 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/coutts-protest-blocka...
__blockcipher__ 5y ago
Alberta hasn’t fully lifted the restrictions, nor has Kenney taken the option of reinstating the restrictions off the table.
- SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
  Firstly, he has a timeline for removing most restrictions, so there should be progress there, and secondly, why should he have to promise that? In case conditions change, say a much more deadly form of COVID, those restrictions may be needed. That demand seems unreasonable.
  - __blockcipher__ 5y ago
    And the truckers and everyone else on their side feels that leaving the emergency powers in the hands of the government is unreasonable. Thus why the two respective sides are at an impasse.
- newuser94303 5y ago
  The last time he removed the restrictions, he managed to create the worst Covid in Canada and had to apologize.

2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago

Yeah, not a good look. He should have cleared this economic terrorism sooner.

karpierz 5y ago

Pierre Trudeau did far worse with the War Measures Act, which gave the government sweeping powers of arrest and detention without trial. Whether this will be a bad look on the government's part (from the public's perspective) depends on whether they can resolve this without incident. Unclear if the protestors will be able to dig in further if they're arrested for the various city laws they've broken. I suspect that if Trudeau enforces Ottawa laws (which the police haven't), then stands down, this won't hurt public perception.

BeefWellington 5y ago
To add on to this, the Emergency Act was designed to replace the War Measures Act explicitly because of what Trudeau Senior did. It has a TON of caveats to it and requires ongoing review and is time limited. Nothing that is done under the Emergency Act is allowed to contravene the constitution. The posters here decrying this as authoritarian don't understand anything about Canadian law, experience, or mindset and are going by what they're fed by their individual media source of choice. The War Measures Act invocation by Pierre Trudeau was one of the most singularly divisive moments (some would argue it was necessary, some would argue the opposite) in Canadian history, and made parliament realize they needed to rein in the Prime Minister's powers.

MattGaiser 5y ago

> Two-thirds of Canadians support military force to end Ottawa protests: poll https://toronto.citynews.ca/2022/02/12/two-thirds-of-canadians-support-military-force-to-end-ottawa-protests-poll/ https://toronto.citynews.ca/2022/02/12/two-thirds-of-canadia... The current approach seems to be a lot more mild than what the public would accept.

908B64B197 5y ago
- dang 5y ago
  Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar hell. This internet track leads nowhere interesting. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - jabthedang 5y ago
edmcnulty101 5y ago
A few years ago, there was an online poll to name a new scientific research boat. The boat ended up being named 'boaty mcboatface' I don't know how much I take stock in online polls especially made by partisan sources. Huffington post did an online poll about who would win the 2016 presidential election. Hillary Clinton received around 99% of the votes.
- makoz 5y ago
  Do you have an issue with the polling methodology they used in the survey? Source on it being an online poll?
- geenew 5y ago
  Who said anything about an online poll? “ The poll was conducted Feb. 9 and 10, 2022 among a random selection of 1,506 Canadian adults who are Maru Voice Canada panelists and is accurate within +/- 2.5 per cent, 19 times out of 20.” It’s right there in the linked article.

colechristensen 5y ago

It doesn't look like, it is authoritarian response to something which should be protected. Using government power intended for things like war to suppress a protest is ridiculous, if this is what being "liberal" is about, I'm out. I hope the response is a protest escalation. Not my country, not my protest, but I know who I'm rooting for. Contrast this to what was happening in Minneapolis a couple of summers ago... people burning down buildings, shops, and police stations and the fire and police literally afraid to go places in the city until we had armed forces marching through the streets. Those are the kind of popular uprisings that need to be dealt with, not streets being blocked by unhappy people.

s5300 5y ago
Damage in Minneapolis was mostly confined to a singular street. Singular. At no point were fire and police “afraid” to go places in the city either, though I can imagine you may have been watching certain “news” coverage that may have claimed that.
- jcadam 5y ago
  I don't think they were afraid. I think they were under orders not to interfere with the rioters.
- xienze 5y ago
  > At no point were fire and police “afraid” to go places in the city either They completely abandoned a police precinct which was promptly burned down [0]. Pretty safe to say they were afraid to stay at their own building! 0: https://www.twincities.com/2020/05/28/minneapolis-police-abandon-third-precinct-hq-as-george-floyd-protesters-pull-down-fences/amp/ https://www.twincities.com/2020/05/28/minneapolis-police-aba...
- colechristensen 5y ago
  I've spent more than a decade living in Minneapolis, I wasn't confused by crazy news sources. >At no point were fire and police “afraid” to go places in the city either The police abandoned the 3rd precinct station which was burned down later that night. How's that for being afraid to be in a place? There were plenty of stories of fire trucks not going places for security reasons, and eventually firemen had national guard escorts. I don't know what that is besides "being afraid" to go places in the city. >>“We were faced with these fail fail fail options,” Mr. Frey (Minneapolis mayor) said. “We were literally having to choose between preventing additional looting, protecting a precinct and providing escorts to firefighters to put out fires. There was no way we could do all three.” >Damage in Minneapolis was mostly confined to a singular street. A main street which crossed the cities, miles long. And damage wasn't at all confined there. There were several hot spots around the cities. >I can imagine you may have been watching certain “news” coverage that may have claimed that. Well, here's the New York Times backing up my claims. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/03/us/minneapolis-government-george-floyd.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/03/us/minneapolis-government...

pkd 5y ago

There is no loss of mandate, if the opinion polls are anything to go by. Besides, the Canadian people chose the government in the middle of the pandemic last year. Is there a more comprehensive definition of a "mandate" than a federal election? Whether the response is authoritarian depends on how it is enforced. The police have basically failed to enforce any law on the occupiers on parliament hill (I live here). If the local enforcement had happened preemptively and as per the law, the situation wouldn't have escalated as far as it has done.

School-Cotton 5y ago
> Is there a more comprehensive definition of a "mandate" than a federal election? Governments chosen by a first-past-the-post system can barely be considered democratically legitimate, if at all.
- dubcanada 5y ago
  Well that’s a silly thing to say. I don’t like governments elected on Tuesday. I’d prefer Wednesday. See that’s another silly thing said. Your opinions of FPTP voting have absolutely nothing to do with anything. The government was elected as per the defined rules.
  - School-Cotton 5y ago
    North Korea's government was also elected as per the defined rules. It would be absurd to claim that that means it's democratically legitimate. > I don’t like governments elected on Tuesday. I’d prefer Wednesday. FPTP vs. good election systems is not a trivial distinction like this, so your analogy is invalid.
    - geenew 5y ago
      And yet somehow there is regular turnover of the governing party approximately every 10 years, and the dominant parties have almost to a one been centrist. Not a terrible system.

jsnodlin 5y ago

Eddy_Viscosity2 5y ago

He wouldn't have had to invoke emergency act if the Ottawa municipal police, the ones responsible for maintaining order in the city of Ottawa, did anything at all. They sat on their asses for weeks. The municipal leadership was non-existent, the ontario provincial leadership was non-existent, so what's left?

rasz 5y ago
Non action is an action by itself, of support for the cause.
BeefWellington 5y ago
Luckily Ottawa will be electing new leadership in the coming months.

jsjsbdkj 5y ago

There's no "loss of mandate". The Canadian people are overwhelmingly vaccinated and don't mind wearing masks. 90+% of truckers are fully vaccinated. Canadians re-elected Trudeau during the pandemic. The issue is that Ottawa Police were afraid of media backlash if they did any crowd control for the initial "protest" weekend. This allowed the occupiers to move in heavy machinery as barricades. When the weekend ended and the trucks didn't move, they realized they were dealing with something closer to an insurrection than a protest, and they've been impotent to stop it since. THe people of Ottawa overwhelmingly support ending the occupation. It has terrorized women, queer people and people of color on the streets. They've been violent and confrontational with front-line workers, which forced two grocery stores to close their doors, plus a large mall. There have been two documented attempts to burn down residential apartment buildings and trap the occupants inside. This weekend hundreds of Ottawa residents marched in a counter-protest, and also blocked the road and held up a convoy of trucks for more than 8 hours. The occupiers are a small group of people who are acting badly - shitting in the streets, getting drunk, blaring their horns, and using their children as human shields. Everyone will celebrate when they're gone for good.

YarickR2 5y ago
Everyone or hundreds of residents ?
torstenvl 5y ago
> There's no "loss of mandate" https://angusreid.org/trudeau-tracker/ https://angusreid.org/trudeau-tracker/ "A new Angus Reid poll showed that 54% of Canadians support an immediate halt to all pandemic restrictions, a stark contrast to the 56% who said as recently as in December they would have supported another round of lockdowns over Omicron." https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/2022/02/13/2662060/half-of-canadians-say-trudeau-not-up-to-job-poll/amp https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/2022/02/13/2662060/half-o...
- pkd 5y ago
  You didn't actually link to an article on Angus Reid. Here's one: > As the country rolls into another week of uncertainty, nearly three-quarters of Canadians (72%) say the time has come for protesters to “go home, they have made their point.” https://angusreid.org/trudeau-convoy-trucker-protest-vaccine-mandates-covid-19/ https://angusreid.org/trudeau-convoy-trucker-protest-vaccine...

tlear 5y ago

It really reminds me of the situation in the USSR in the 1991. Trudeau will call in the army, what the army will do is not what he expects I suspect. He is digging his own grave. Hopefully it will not come down to Ceaușescu resolution

bawolff 5y ago
Trudeau says he is not calling in the army, and besides that would be a provincial rsponsibility i think so it would be up to the premier.
- tlear 5y ago
  He is not calling it today. We will see next week or week after.

bawolff 5y ago

> This definitely looks like an authoritarian response to a loss of mandate. He has a minority government. A weak one at that. If he really lost his mandate there would be a snap election already.

jsjsbdkj 5y ago
On COVID issues the NDP, Bloc and Libs are aligned which is a significant majority. Also we just had an election and nothing changed. The Liberals with a minority is actually an indication that Canada wants to be further left than Trudeau, but we haven't gotten there yet.
- n_plus_1 5y ago
  The entirety of the Bloc just voted yea on the motion with the conservatives for the government to propose a concrete plan to end covid mandates today, along with 1 Liberal that Joel guy who dissented from his party.

bawolff 5y ago

> The act also allows for the military to be used as police, Say what now? Which part of the act allows that? I skimmed through it and didn't see anything relevant.

deleted 5y ago

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gorwell 5y ago

All tyrannies rule through fraud and force, but once the fraud is exposed they must rely exclusively on force.