12 ms·
Internet outage affected nearly 30k people after Oakland fiber cable was shot
- raxxorrax 5y agoDo guns now count as cyber weapons?
- totalZero 5y ago> Service is shot
- tyingq 5y agoAlso mentions the "Shot Spotter" technology, which has some controversy associated with it: https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/four-problems-with-the-shotspotter-gunshot-detection-system/ https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/four-problems-w...
- coolso 5y agoI wish that article focused solely on whether or not the technology actually works, rather than leaning heavily on the “problematic” aspect that forces people to maybe face facts that run counter to their dishonest or at least misleading narratives.
- tyingq 5y agoIt's the ACLU, so their focus seems unsurprising. The company was already caught falsifying data, so it's not made up concerns. https://www.vice.com/en/article/qj8xbq/police-are-telling-shotspotter-to-alter-evidence-from-gunshot-detecting-ai https://www.vice.com/en/article/qj8xbq/police-are-telling-sh...
- boomboomsubban 5y agoThat article is mentioned in the ACLU piece, as Shot Spotter is trying a $300 million defamation suit over it. They claim they always do a secondary "detailed forensic report" and their communication with police about that is inconsequential.
- tshaddox 5y agoIt’s reasonable to define some high level goals when determining whether a technology like this “works.”
- steve76 5y ago[dead]
- z3c0 5y agoI'd really like to know how this technology differentiates a gunshot from a car backfiring.
- nanomonkey 5y agoFrom my understanding, looking into making an open source version years ago, a human will actually listen to the audio clip and verify, plus there is some triangulation going on where they can determine the speed of the bullet and direction for at least high powered bullets using multiple microphones.
- throwaway0a5e 5y agoIt's easy in a lab, in a city with potential for fairly arbitrary reverberations hitting the microphone at fairly arbitrary timings it's right up there with forensic fire analysis and other crap like that.
- sokoloff 5y agoI’d guess a backfire (or afterfire) is significantly subsonic and therefore probably has a different (less sharp) profile than gunshot report of typical ammunition.
- darksaints 5y ago.45 ACP, which is probably the second most common pistol round, is subsonic by default.
- CydeWeys 5y agoIt's definitely not the second-most common pistol round, especially in crime. It's way below .22LR and 9mm. Might even be below .380 ACP, .38 Special, and .25 ACP too. The guns used in crime are quite different than the guns preferred by the enthusiast community -- they're generally older, smaller, and cheaper.
- darksaints 5y ago
- w0mbat 5y agoA UK research company developed this kind of microphone array tech in the 90s. It first came to fame in the Bosnian war and was used by UK peacekeeper troops to enforce ceasefires. In that case it was most useful for detecting artillery fire and could instantly say what kind of weapon was fired, where it was, and when it fired. This could be used to instantly work out who broke the ceasefire, and peacekeepers could even fire back to destroy the rogue artillery piece and restore order.
- austincheney 5y agoSomebody needs to spend more time at the range. I can’t imagine how far off target they must have been to hit something that far off the ground.
- Grazester 5y agoThe article says they were shooting into the air
- matja 5y agoThey were trying to shoot the air and missed!?
- DoreenMichele 5y agoGravity. You shoot into the air and what goes up must come down. And still has velocity.
- willis936 5y agoTerminal velocity. What is that going to hurt?
- DoreenMichele 5y agoMost people are not shooting straight up vertically. In practice, they are typically shooting at a high angle such that it creates a long arc and this would not be first time something (or someone) got shot at a distance that no one intended to shoot.
- mschuster91 5y agoIn most cases, "celebratory gunfire" is harmless. In some cases though, people end up injured or dead - there's a decent sized list on Wikipedia [1]. The key issue is, you only have "terminal velocity" at play when shooting up straight at 90 degrees in the air. The more "sideways" you get from that, the more energy will be kept during the fall. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celebratory_gunfire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celebratory_gunfire
- jijji 5y agospeaks to the current crime rate in Oakland, its out of hand... No wonder why the Oakland Raiders moved to Las Vegas.
- gyc 5y agoThe Raiders moved mostly due to receiving hundreds of millions of dollars in public financing to build a state of the art stadium in Las Vegas as opposed to playing in the semi-decrepit Oakland coliseum.
- mikeyouse 5y ago(A decrepit Coliseum which they also received of millions of dollars in public financing to play in: https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/philmatier/article/As-Raiders-run-off-to-Las-Vegas-they-leave-14914255.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/philmatier/article/As-Ra...)
- WalterGR 5y agoNo mention of crime on https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland_Raiders_relocation_to_Las_Vegas https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland_Raiders_relocation_t...
- maerF0x0 5y agoFar too simple minded if you think they'd ever mention that. Think politically.
- Rebelgecko 5y agoIf you have any good sources, you can update the article yourself
- chomp 5y agoI have experience with this, this happened at our office in Houston. In that area, Comcast hung its fiber on the power poles, and I strongly suspect someone got drunk and decided to pop random hanging cables.
- chasd00 5y agoi bet if they just hung a $20 piece of iron with a target painted on it the problems would cease. People will shoot at the target and spare the expensive fiber (unless they're specifically targeting the fiber which i bet is rare)
- kayodelycaon 5y agoYou're seriously overestimating how accurate handguns are. Granted, I suck, but at 20 yards, I couldn't get 18 carefully aimed shoots on the same large piece of paper. None of them were anywhere near the center. At 10 yards, I managed to get everything within the outer ring. Giving people a target to shoot at would cause more problems than it would solve.
- qwertyuiop_ 5y agoremoving the potential flamewar comment. thanks @dang
- femiagbabiaka 5y agoOakland PD budget was increased last year.
- throwaway1777 5y agoYeah, it’s mostly the lack of prosecution. But also fewer officers and higher salaries with more overtime so you spend more but get less.
- femiagbabiaka 5y agoYeah I think this is getting closer to the truth. The bang for the buck isn’t there and the corruption in the department is rampant, even with oversight.
- maerF0x0 5y agoOakland actually was mentioned in this article, but I think the outcome still aligns with your point -- it's not relevant in this case or in general crime: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/mar/07/us-cities-defund-police-transferring-money-community https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/mar/07/us-cities-de...
- femiagbabiaka 5y agoI don’t see Oakland PD’s budget brought up here after a couple of (admittedly quick) reads. They do link through to a CityLab article however that does show the increase: https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2021-city-budget-police-funding/ https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2021-city-budget-police-f...
- maerF0x0 5y ago
- cplli 5y ago"Error 482: Someone shot the servers with a 12-gauge. Please contact your local administrator." - Ross, Freeman Mind
- edmcnulty101 5y agoTechnology and Crime. This is a very Bay Area story.
- klyrs 5y agoBecause folks in rural areas never get drunk and shoot random shit that isn't theirs? When I worked at Boeing, we had a recurring problem, that airplane fuselages were shipped by rail, and they were frequently pierced by multiple bullet holes. This is one of those instances where the urban/rural crime gap is partly explained by the reliability of crime reporting.
- rootsudo 5y agoWell that's just a Renton/Seattle/Everett thing.
- klyrs 5y agoWhy would would you conclude that? There's a whole lot of rail between Wichita (Kansas), where the 37 fuselages were made, and Renton, where they were delivered.
- syshum 5y ago>>we had a recurring problem, that airplane fuselages were shipped by rail, and they were frequently pierced by multiple bullet holes And you believe this was from Rural Area's? Why? I see alot of train damage, vandalism, graffiti, and gun shots occurring in urban area's
- klyrs 5y agoStop signs are another common target of vandals in rural areas; in some places, they've all been blasted with a shotgun at least once. I've spent a lot of time in rural parts, and have witnessed quite a few incidents of bored, drunk kids shooting shit up. And, more to the point, I've seen shot-up fuselages on a train in Ellensburg, heading West. Those gunshots didn't happen in the Seattle area.
- duxup 5y agoLong ago a customer who had a data center hastily constructed would call me every Monday morning about 4am to find out if his DS3's were up. I'd check and let him know. After one day where all of them were down at the same time he said "Damn homeless people!" He later explained the local telco hastily ran lines under a bridge to get some circuits setup on time. The local homeless folks tended to gather under the bridge and when they started fires to keep warm his circuits running above them would heat up and go down.
- Wingman4l7 5y agoPart of Seattle is currently experiencing this issue because under-bridge cables were cut and stolen under a bridge, twice: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/law-justice/wiring-cables-twice-cut-and-stolen-under-magnolia-bridge-bringing-internet-phone-outages/ https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/law-justice/wiring... It's hitting affected businesses hard; they can't process credit cards or receive call-in orders.
- nieve 5y agoI somewhat doubt that homeless people are stealing fiber. The base of that bridge is pretty accessible, but it looks like the cables were stolen multiple stories in the air.
- Wingman4l7 5y agoIt's not fiber, it's copper. Copper wire theft is very common -- they often go after ground wires. Looks like some fiber was cut in the process of the copper theft since they likely couldn't tell the difference.
- rootusrootus 5y agoAbout 20 years ago I worked for a CLEC, and the physical plant manager had some stories. Mostly about squirrels, but he had a nice selection of pictures of equipment that had been shot at, as well. The squirrels I can understand. But why allegedly intelligent humans feel the need to shoot holes in things that don't belong to them, especially obvious things like infrastructure, I just don't get. I love to go plinking, but I put in a lot of effort to be responsible about it. I end up picking up a lot of trash and other people's discarded brass, too.
- wrs 5y agoWe have a rescue cat from rural Ohio who came to us with four pellets in her body. The vet said she sees this a lot. So it’s not just infrastructure. Some people are just stupid, irresponsible, cruel, or all three, and some of those people have guns.
- anonfornoreason 5y agoOr, a feral cat who has been shitting in your planter boxes and eating your birds is fair game. Easy to treat it like a raccoon that decides to live under your porch, there’s no difference.
- MisterTea 5y agoOr a human who thinks planter boxes are worth more than a living thing. Easy to treat it like subhuman that lives under a bridge, there's no difference.
- changoplatanero 5y agoIsn't the purpose of planter boxes to grow living things?
- thomquaid 5y agoPlants are living things.
- lbriner 5y ago
- syshum 5y agoIronically, In the US it is only common in places with very restrictive gun laws. Also Chances are the person(s) firing into the air are not in legal possession of the gun they are firing it is not a problem / common where I am in the US
- ashwagary 5y ago>In the US it is only common in places with very restrictive gun laws The rural areas with lax gun laws and bullet holes in most street signs disagree with your claim.
- syshum 5y agoIn my life I have seen only a handful or road signs with bullet holes in them. None of the roads signs around me, or in of the areas I grew up in or lived in had wide scale bullet holes in them (Mid-west USA)
- ashwagary 5y ago>None of the roads signs around me, or in of the areas I grew up in or lived in had wide scale bullet holes in them (Mid-west USA) I noticed the opposite on dirt roads in the midwest. It's rare to find a stop sign with no bullet holes.
- kayodelycaon 5y agoIt depends on the local culture. In Wisconsin, I haven't seen many holes in roadsigns. A lot of rural people have guns for hunting or wildlife control and for the most part are relatively responsible with them. I suspect in places where guns are tools, less of this stuff happens.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- iptrans 5y agoHasn’t Comcast heard about proper network design techniques? Redundancy is a well defined concept for a reason. Two is one and one is none.
- totalZero 5y agoNetworks that allowed multiple comparable paths between critical nodes 24 months ago may no longer be as redundant with so much WFH and all the other developments of the pandemic. Infrastructure isn't software.
- Hizonner 5y agoIf that were the case, then you would expect to see degraded service, not total loss of service. And anyway what should be getting overloaded by lots of subscriber use is switching equipment, not cables. Cables have ridiculous amounts of bandwidth, and fibers are so cheap compared to the fixed installation cost that you're out of your mind if you install a cable without running 10X the glass you actually expect to light up.
- guenthert 5y agoWhy should 30k people pay for redundancy just because a few loons can't keep their shooting to the range (or have guns in the first place)?
- Hizonner 5y agoBecause redundancy is a basic expectation for an infrastructure service, not an add-on extra. There are a million other things that can also take out a cable. Maybe it's OK for that to knock out 1000 subscribers, if it can be fixed quickly, No way is it OK for it to knock out 30000 subscribers.
- throwaway0a5e 5y agoBecause if it's not someone with a gun it'll be an errant semi truck on ice or something else.
- 5y ago
- reincarnate0x14 5y agoStuff like this has been a problem in the US mountain west so long that all the big substations that are remotely near roads have been getting berms and plating around key equipment because you'll drive down any given road in rural New Mexico or where-ever and every single road sign is pockmarked with bullet impacts and in some cases giant tears from the larger calibers. It's a silent impetus behind so much of the communications out there staying on microwave or powerline carrier despite fiber runs being cheap and easy.
- reaperducer 5y agoStuff like this has been a problem in the US mountain west so long I don't think it's geographically specific. I've seen plenty of this in New Jersey and upstate New York.
- aerostable_slug 5y agoSo, a shooting was reported and videotaped two hours before the outage? It would seem that either the bullets fired in the air decided to hover for a while before dropped back down, or the first shooting had nothing to do with the outage, or..? Odd writeup. Also, > Along with Internet connectivity, all Comcast Xfinity services, including [...] home security systems went down. I wonder how many consumers realize that their home security system is tied to the "cable"? Or the same with their Comcast "landline"?
- Fatnino 5y agoThere's literally a photo of a wire with a bullet hole. Of course the shooting 2 hours prior wasn't the exact time this bullet was launched. It's just putting into context that there was shooting going around the neighborhood that morning.
- aerostable_slug 5y agoThat's why I put in the part about "hovering". Why didn't the shot spotters pick up the cable shooting if it was separate from the one OPD was investigating? Why wasn't there an outage earlier? Odd.
- Hizonner 5y ago30,000 subscribers depending on a single cable. Re-dun-dan-see. Learn it, live it, love it.
- maratc 5y agoWe should invent a system to transmit packets that is resilient to nukes. Maybe Department of Defense should get involved. Maybe they should even make some advanced research project agency or something.
- justapassenger 5y agoOakland is fairly densely populated urban area. 30k subscribers is an other way of saying, that people living in an area of roughly 3 sq miles depend on a single cable. Redundancy for last mile isn't economically feasible for any infrastructure.
- iptrans 5y agoHaving redundant cable paths to service 30k subscribers is economically feasible.
- cobookman 5y agoI co-op'd at a major cable ISP. Was told that in certain areas they issued company owned firearms to their field employees due to past incidents. Outages caused by gunshots were actually fairly common in certain parts of America.
- dualboot 5y agoSeriously? No path diversity at all for that many endpoints?
- w0mbat 5y agoI live in Oakland and my XFinity internet was broken by this, and the cable TV service was not affected. I have an alternate connection through AT&T fiber, so on our mobile devices we just switched to the other WiFi and carried on. Unfortunately our TiVo Edge uses an Ethernet connection to the XFinity cable modem, and TiVo's OS responds to an internet outage by deciding your TiVo account is closed and it silently stops recording anything, even after the network comes back. It takes a reboot to fix this. It deliberately skipped recording some things on Sunday night I'd been looking forward to. If I hadn't noticed this morning and forced a reboot it would still be stuck in that state. I am really annoyed that they coded their software like that. It's like withdrawing service the second it can't be verified is TiVo's top priority and they don't even bother trying to restore service afterwards.
- segaboy81 5y ago