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Militarized Dolphins Protect Almost a Quarter of the US Nuclear Stockpile

393 points by neatze 5y ago

suchire 5y ago
Cetacean ops https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Cetacean_Ops https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Cetacean_Ops
kklisura 5y ago
> ...the dolphins use their extraordinary biological sonar to detect hazards beneath the surface, whether tethered to the sea floor or buried beneath sediment. Isn't this, like, job for the drones?
- camillomiller 5y ago
  Well, Dolphins are cheaper unfortunately
  - unnouinceput 5y ago
    ...and wayyyy faster!
faangiq 5y ago
Today in not-the-Onion …
friendlydog 5y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_marine_mammal https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_marine_mammal For reference.
- walrus01 5y ago
  one that is theorized to have escaped from the russian training program even has his own wikipedia page: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hvaldimir https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hvaldimir https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roDkgbhvmsQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roDkgbhvmsQ
aaron695 5y ago
H I Sutton has a good article on Israel's 'Killer Dolphins' I think in reality it was not a device to kill but had an other use, like mentioned. Hamas seems to say the frogman was killed, but doesn't confirm by the dolphin in the English quotes. If the dolphins got contused and attacked a school trip swimming at the beach it wouldn't look great. All you need is the dolphin to call back it's found something then drop a conventional bomb in the water or what not. http://www.hisutton.com/Israeli-Navy-Killer-Dolphins.html http://www.hisutton.com/Israeli-Navy-Killer-Dolphins.html
ncmncm 5y ago
Brings to mind Karel Kapek's 1936 "The War with the Newts". He is better known for his 1920 play, "R.U.R.", or "Rossum's Universal Robots", which brought "robot" into English. Both explore the self-deception character of attempts at imposing servitude. The US has still not processed its varied experience.
- nine_k 5y ago
  Nit: not Kapek but Čapek, where the Č reads like "ch" in "chair". Sounds that were missing from classical Latin are still not interoperable across languages using the Latin script.
  - thaumasiotes 5y ago
    > Sounds that were missing from classical Latin are still not interoperable across languages using the Latin script. Sure, but it's hard to blame that on the phonology of classical Latin. Sounds that were present in Latin are also not interoperable across languages using Latinate scripts. The sounds in a language change over time, and they do it much, much faster than the spelling does.
- the_af 5y ago
  > "The War with the Newts" Good book. I read it at a young age, and missed most of the irony and references to the real world, and still found it engrossing.
dynamohk 5y ago
red alert 2 vibes
- vyrotek 5y ago
  Indeed. But it looks like we have rocketeers these days now to counter?
- nayuki 5y ago
  Yeah, using sonar dolphins to defend against killer squids
- startupnostal 5y ago
  Even better if Russia has giant squids: https://cnc.gamepedia.com/Giant_squid https://cnc.gamepedia.com/Giant_squid
w-ll 5y ago
All these links and no 'Johnny Mnemonic' reference. Takes place in 2021. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Mnemonic_(film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Mnemonic_(film)
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- andruby 5y ago
  It’s been a while since I’ve seen it, but I can’t remember it including anything with dolphins.
  - scandox 5y ago
    The Dolphin is the only thing I remember and I saw it last when it came out in the cinema.
    - neumann 5y ago
      Yes - the dolphin and the VR sequence
  - Geee 5y ago
    It has Dolph Lundgren.. Close enough?
    - rbanffy 5y ago
      Which is probably the most memorable character in the movie. “Do you want someone brought to Jesus?”
      - samatman 5y ago
        This is a movie with no less than Dolph Lundgren, Ice T, and Henry Rollins, competing to chew the scenery with supporting characters. Tough call, but Ice T's Low-Tek style is what I remember best.
vba616 5y ago
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1254495.A_Deeper_Sea https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1254495.A_Deeper_Sea
bitwize 5y ago
Loop it through Jones.
chx 5y ago
These days you can't believe anything unless an official source is provided. This is it: https://www.niwcpacific.navy.mil/marine-mammal-program/ https://www.niwcpacific.navy.mil/marine-mammal-program/
- theonemind 5y ago
  Some skepticism seems warranted for official sources as well!
  - saalweachter 5y ago
    I mean, the essence of the Cold War was each side trying to find any advantage they could, while pretending everything they tried worked. Maybe the dolphins don't work well, maybe the enemy knows it, maybe they don't. Maybe the risk it works dissuades them from trying. Maybe the anti-dolphin countermeasures they carry are cumbersome and lead to their discovery. Maybe the dolphins work for once; I'm sure not every trial failed. When you're throwing unlimited piles of other people's money at a problem, why not try some long shots?
- peakaboo 5y ago
  Hah - I wish it was that easy to know what the truth is...
- Labo333 5y ago
  I think I can believe most but that part is really weird: > For protection against enemy divers, dolphins will swim up to the infiltrator, bump into them and place a buoy device on their back or a limb using their mouth. The buoy then drags the outed diver to the surface for easy capture. When trained sea lions perform the same maneuver, they use a kind of handcuff with their mouths to attach the buoy Imagine if we did this on land: monkeys or dogs handcuffing or tasing people! Surely they wouldn't be deployed against civilians and I know there have been exotic animals travelling with military (like bears) but training animals to fight humans with TOOLS looks incredibly hard.
  - 5y ago
vmception 5y ago
and to think some other people on the internet almost convinced me not to take a load of tax deductions....
eric4smith 5y ago
This was the most fascinating thing about David Brin's "Startide Rising". And I never forgot that book in my life. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Startide_Rising https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Startide_Rising
- adh636 5y ago
  Amazing book. I think the concepts around the whole Uplift trilogy are great. The first one was a little tough for me to get through, but the next two are among my all time favorites. It's interesting to think about the potential of different species.
poulsbohemian 5y ago
This isn't exactly a secret or new information... it was pretty well known when I lived on the peninsula 10+ years ago (thus the username, Poulsbohemian...). There's a state park right near the Hood Canal bridge where it isn't uncommon to watch the submarines come and go in and out of the canal. Always a bit surreal to push your kids on the swings while watching a first strike weapon capable of destroying the world pass by ;-D. I don't recall the name of the street, but there are houses with views across the water to what locals believed to be the dolphin pens...
- chipsa 5y ago
  Second strike weapon. It is supposed to be able to survive someone else's first strike. First strike weapons can't survive someone else's first strike. It's part of the whole "assured destruction" thing: doesn't matter if you hit us first, you're still going to end up a self lit parking lot afterwards.
  - formvoltron 5y ago
    The obvious problem with mutual assured destruction is that an insane person could get ahold of the weapons, launch first, and kill all of current and future humanity. How about not strike back, just try to survive & show future generations of the world how to be. Go live in that other country that isn't radioactive.
    - slingnow 5y ago
      Those don't exist, hence why the OP didn't refer to them. They were referring to something from the actual article.
    - kerneloftruth 5y ago
      "How about not strike back, just try to survive & show future generations of the world how to be. Go live in that other country that isn't radioactive." The word for that is "surrender".
    - whatshisface 5y ago
DwnVoteHoneyPot 5y ago
Reminds me of the dogs the Russians trained to deliver bombs to the Germans. However, in the chaos of war, the dogs would get scared and run back to the owners with the bomb, killing the Russians.
- rdevsrex 5y ago
  That is a great example of irony.
- YarickR2 5y ago
  Not bombs, AT mines. And "run back to the owner and blow him up" is an anecdote/bullshit in this case
eecc 5y ago
“ The Soviet Union trained dolphins for similar harbor protection. After the fall of the USSR, the program was said to be in limbo, and the Soviet-trained dolphins are believed to have been sold to Iran in 2000.” Ah, good old 50’s paranoia: when one enemy sunsets, the next one is built-up with the scraps of the former.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
trembonator 5y ago
tester756 5y ago
>If a mine or other weapon is detected, the dolphin returns to its handler, but who places mines there? are those animals actually having missions or they just stay prepared?
- krisoft 5y ago
  They are on guard dutty. Do you have the same question about human military guards? 99.9% of the time they are just standing around “doing nothing”. If the trainers are any good they regularly excercise the dolphins with simulated “attacks”. > but who places mines there? Potential enemy saboteurs? Countries in the west has a long history of military infiltrators who are trained to swim/float to enemy ships and place limpet mines on them. These attacks are relatively low-tech, besides the limpet mines everything else can be bought from general sporting good / diving stores for it. Therefore we can assume such attacks are widely available to our enemies (large and small). Here is a few examples from history of such attacks: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Jaywick https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Jaywick https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frankton https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frankton Obviously all these documented cases are from the second world war, and they used folding kayaks. You can assume that a modern infiltrator has access to improved gear to stay underwater longer, devices to help them swim faster and some will have access to rebreathers too so they won’t leave a bubble trail.
- ovi256 5y ago
  Yes, they're prepared to defend against enemy combat divers placing mines. *In peacetime, they defend against enemy infiltrators gathering intelligence. There's a long history of combat divers, or frogmen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decima_Flottiglia_MAS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decima_Flottiglia_MAS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Crabb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Crabb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frankton https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frankton There are many such stories. One of my favourites is of the jovial, slightly portly Italian diplomat Luigi Ferraro (in reality a frogman under diplomatic cover) during WW2 in neutral Turkey, who at night would go out to a nearby port, swim out and place limpet mines on British ships transporting vital chrome for steelmaking to Britain. Yes, let's go assemble high explosive timed devices, alone, then swim, at night, and place the devices on defended enemy ships. He sank three.
larryflint 5y ago
Glad some of that 777.7 billion budget is going to good use!
hulitu 5y ago
I wonder what PETA has to say about it.
- unnouinceput 5y ago
  PETA will say nothing. That cesspool of corruption will just search for the next innocent who did a selfie with a monkey to attack him, all the while they keep "releasing" dogs from shelters by killing them.
mothsonasloth 5y ago
Here is Russia's answer to this; "Navy Seals" https://youtu.be/0-unYZ6ltfI https://youtu.be/0-unYZ6ltfI
overtonwhy 5y ago
Darwin from SeaQuest!
pelasaco 5y ago
"For protection against enemy divers, dolphins will swim up to the infiltrator, bump into them and place a buoy device on their back or a limb using their mouth. The buoy then drags the outed diver to the surface for easy capture." I mean come on, "enemy divers" will just kill the dolphins or avoid contact with them..
- LatteLazy 5y ago
  Imagine trying to kill or avoid a shark while diving... Where is it? Which direction is it coming from? How fast is it coming? How far can you see in this water, because it can "see" you with its non-visual senses...
  - pelasaco 5y ago
    except the shark isn't trying to kill you but to place a buoy on your back with it's mouth..
- celticninja 5y ago
  I think you are overestimating how well a diver can maenouver under water in comparison to a dolphin.
  - Nullinker 5y ago
    But we should also not underestimate the ability of the enemy to train dolphins. It would be hard to send an strike team of just dolphins but I imagine a strike team of both humans and dolphins trained to fend of the defending dolphins and protect the divers would stand a chance.
    - hugh-avherald 5y ago
      How does the enemy get the trained dolphins there? And once discovered, an attack, dolphins or not, isn't going to have much success.
    - BasilPH 5y ago
Jaruzel 5y ago
Well, I'm disappointed that they don't have "frikkin lasers" on their heads.
- KineticLensman 5y ago
  That would be the militarized sharks.
- Jaruzel 5y ago
mrfinn 5y ago
Leave animals outside the d*mn wars, FFS. Good news about all this is that maybe, hopefully, powerful alien races are actually evaluating us and they'll treat us accordingly to our BS.
- jstanley 5y ago
  Why is that good news?
- indymike 5y ago
  You are about 10,000 yeas late to the party. Horses and dogs have been used on war for about as long as humans have been fighting.
  - KineticLensman 5y ago
    > Horses and dogs have been used on war for about as long as humans have been fighting Domestication of horses is surprisingly recent [0] - perhaps only 6000 years ago - compared with fighting between humans, which likely goes back to before we were even human. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestication_of_the_horse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestication_of_the_horse
    - alexb_ 5y ago
      6000 years ago is hardly recent. Cavalry is nothing new.
      - KineticLensman 5y ago
        It is recent relative to the origins of fighting in humans.
  - mrfinn 5y ago
    Yeah that's the point. This cruelty party is lasting too long.
mavhc 5y ago
No info on how effective they are of course, how many people/mines have they detected vs missed?
ernesth 5y ago
Let me add yet another reference: Robert Merle's "the day of the dolphin" (un animal doué de raison) published in 1967 (so the navy began training dolphins and sea lions while reading this book). In it, the (talking) dolphins are used in a false flag attack.
dsq 5y ago
This, together the news that North Korea also has weaponized marine mammals, makes me more saddened than from the usual dismal news we hear. Even the primal innocent are being roped into our primate rivalries. It gets even worse, as each side in such an umderwater war will blast away every cetacean it detects, just in case.
- signa11 5y ago
  ''' Even the primal innocent are being roped into our primate rivalries. ''' what's your opinion of say, horses used in olden times (heck till about WW-I, quite extensively) in battle ?
  - bitxbitxbitcoin 5y ago
    Or current K-9 units?
    - anon_123g987 5y ago
      Cops still use horses, too. And routinely kill suspects' dogs (https://www.criminallegalnews.org/news/2018/jun/16/doj-police-shooting-family-dogs-has-become-epidemic/ https://www.criminallegalnews.org/news/2018/jun/16/doj-polic...).
    - throwaway032342 5y ago
      They are often used to maul people maliciously by cowards so yeah also bad
  - dsq 5y ago
    The accounts of horses in war are quite horrific, and their replacement by machines in the role of war transports is gratifying.
    - DaltonCoffee 5y ago
      Indeed, the horror of their long history of participation in our primate wars puts their modern militarization in perspective. Is the modern military's exploitation of animals actually significant compared to any other time in human history?
tzs 5y ago
> Since Bangor, Washington, now houses the largest single nuclear weapons site in the world, it needs protection from all sides, including the seaward side. Well crap. I just can't seem to catch a break. When I was a kid from ages 12 until I went away to college I lived within 3 miles of Castle Air Force Base and from ages 8-12 within 7 miles of it. Castle was home to a ton of B-52s and KC-135s and probably was a prime target in most all out nuclear war doomsday scenarios. And now, many years later I'm within 5 miles of Bangor, which I'd guess is currently a prime target in that scenario (or in the North Korea tries to nuke the US scenario).
- papito 5y ago
  It's the best place to be - it will be over quickly.
- dsq 5y ago
  Though maybe being on ground zero counts as 'lucky' compared to being, say, 20 miles away in the fallout zone. One goes quickly, in the flash itself. Either that or on a Pacific Island somewhere (with a mountain, not sea level) with 10 years of supplies.
- bopbeepboop 5y ago
codethief 5y ago
This reminds me of reading about the US Camel Corps the other day: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Camel_Corps https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Camel_Corps
quattrofan 5y ago
dunefox 5y ago
mcgeez 5y ago
> For protection against enemy divers, dolphins will swim up to the infiltrator, bump into them and place a buoy device on their back or a limb using their mouth. I need to see this in action. A dolphin shows up and cuffs you??
moron4hire 5y ago
I guess this is the precursor to "Cetacean Ops" in Star Trek: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Cetacean_Ops https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Cetacean_Ops
dcchambers 5y ago
I don't know if it's because the coffee hasn't kicked in yet, but I wasn't sure if this was satire or not at first.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
kerneloftruth 5y ago
I didn't realize how prescient was Dr. Evil in Austen Powers.
dqpb 5y ago
> Since 1967, the Navy has been training dolphins and sea lions (and probably other marine life) I like how they threw in "(and probably other marine life)". Always keep the enemy guessing. Is that really just a sea horse, or is it a highly trained US operative? Is that cuttlefish strobing because it thinks I'm a suitable mate, or is this some DARPA Psy Op? Even the kelp have ears...
wombat-man 5y ago
Reminds me of this old movie about George C. Scott getting duped into training a dolphen to KILL! ... The President! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Day_of_the_Dolphin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Day_of_the_Dolphin
aspyct 5y ago
And I thought dolphins in Red Alert 2 were a joke...
sxv 5y ago
Anyone have an estimate of the numbers of dolphins and sea lions currently "enlisted"? I can't find numbers anywhere.
- advisedwang 5y ago
  Excellent question, because it's likely a trivial number and a program that only still exists for PR purposes.
therockspush 5y ago
I remember seeing similar dolphin pens down in San Diego across from Coronado. Floating by in a little 20 foot Catalina while the sail of a nuclear sub cruises by is surreal. You can see the pens on google maps. https://www.google.com/maps/@32.701949,-117.2360585,297m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e1?hl=en https://www.google.com/maps/@32.701949,-117.2360585,297m/dat...
stefantalpalaru 5y ago

393 points by neatze 5y ago

Cetacean ops https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Cetacean_Ops https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Cetacean_Ops

> ...the dolphins use their extraordinary biological sonar to detect hazards beneath the surface, whether tethered to the sea floor or buried beneath sediment. Isn't this, like, job for the drones?

camillomiller 5y ago
Well, Dolphins are cheaper unfortunately
- unnouinceput 5y ago
  ...and wayyyy faster!

faangiq 5y ago

Today in not-the-Onion …

friendlydog 5y ago

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_marine_mammal https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_marine_mammal For reference.

walrus01 5y ago
one that is theorized to have escaped from the russian training program even has his own wikipedia page: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hvaldimir https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hvaldimir https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roDkgbhvmsQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roDkgbhvmsQ

aaron695 5y ago

H I Sutton has a good article on Israel's 'Killer Dolphins' I think in reality it was not a device to kill but had an other use, like mentioned. Hamas seems to say the frogman was killed, but doesn't confirm by the dolphin in the English quotes. If the dolphins got contused and attacked a school trip swimming at the beach it wouldn't look great. All you need is the dolphin to call back it's found something then drop a conventional bomb in the water or what not. http://www.hisutton.com/Israeli-Navy-Killer-Dolphins.html http://www.hisutton.com/Israeli-Navy-Killer-Dolphins.html

ncmncm 5y ago

Brings to mind Karel Kapek's 1936 "The War with the Newts". He is better known for his 1920 play, "R.U.R.", or "Rossum's Universal Robots", which brought "robot" into English. Both explore the self-deception character of attempts at imposing servitude. The US has still not processed its varied experience.

nine_k 5y ago
Nit: not Kapek but Čapek, where the Č reads like "ch" in "chair". Sounds that were missing from classical Latin are still not interoperable across languages using the Latin script.
- thaumasiotes 5y ago
  > Sounds that were missing from classical Latin are still not interoperable across languages using the Latin script. Sure, but it's hard to blame that on the phonology of classical Latin. Sounds that were present in Latin are also not interoperable across languages using Latinate scripts. The sounds in a language change over time, and they do it much, much faster than the spelling does.
the_af 5y ago
> "The War with the Newts" Good book. I read it at a young age, and missed most of the irony and references to the real world, and still found it engrossing.

dynamohk 5y ago

red alert 2 vibes

vyrotek 5y ago
Indeed. But it looks like we have rocketeers these days now to counter?
nayuki 5y ago
Yeah, using sonar dolphins to defend against killer squids
startupnostal 5y ago
Even better if Russia has giant squids: https://cnc.gamepedia.com/Giant_squid https://cnc.gamepedia.com/Giant_squid

w-ll 5y ago

All these links and no 'Johnny Mnemonic' reference. Takes place in 2021. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Mnemonic_(film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Mnemonic_(film)

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
andruby 5y ago
It’s been a while since I’ve seen it, but I can’t remember it including anything with dolphins.
- scandox 5y ago
  The Dolphin is the only thing I remember and I saw it last when it came out in the cinema.
  - neumann 5y ago
    Yes - the dolphin and the VR sequence
- Geee 5y ago
  It has Dolph Lundgren.. Close enough?
  - rbanffy 5y ago
    Which is probably the most memorable character in the movie. “Do you want someone brought to Jesus?”
    - samatman 5y ago
      This is a movie with no less than Dolph Lundgren, Ice T, and Henry Rollins, competing to chew the scenery with supporting characters. Tough call, but Ice T's Low-Tek style is what I remember best.

vba616 5y ago

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1254495.A_Deeper_Sea https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1254495.A_Deeper_Sea

bitwize 5y ago

Loop it through Jones.

chx 5y ago

These days you can't believe anything unless an official source is provided. This is it: https://www.niwcpacific.navy.mil/marine-mammal-program/ https://www.niwcpacific.navy.mil/marine-mammal-program/

theonemind 5y ago
Some skepticism seems warranted for official sources as well!
- saalweachter 5y ago
  I mean, the essence of the Cold War was each side trying to find any advantage they could, while pretending everything they tried worked. Maybe the dolphins don't work well, maybe the enemy knows it, maybe they don't. Maybe the risk it works dissuades them from trying. Maybe the anti-dolphin countermeasures they carry are cumbersome and lead to their discovery. Maybe the dolphins work for once; I'm sure not every trial failed. When you're throwing unlimited piles of other people's money at a problem, why not try some long shots?
peakaboo 5y ago
Hah - I wish it was that easy to know what the truth is...
Labo333 5y ago
I think I can believe most but that part is really weird: > For protection against enemy divers, dolphins will swim up to the infiltrator, bump into them and place a buoy device on their back or a limb using their mouth. The buoy then drags the outed diver to the surface for easy capture. When trained sea lions perform the same maneuver, they use a kind of handcuff with their mouths to attach the buoy Imagine if we did this on land: monkeys or dogs handcuffing or tasing people! Surely they wouldn't be deployed against civilians and I know there have been exotic animals travelling with military (like bears) but training animals to fight humans with TOOLS looks incredibly hard.
- 5y ago

vmception 5y ago

and to think some other people on the internet almost convinced me not to take a load of tax deductions....

eric4smith 5y ago

This was the most fascinating thing about David Brin's "Startide Rising". And I never forgot that book in my life. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Startide_Rising https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Startide_Rising

adh636 5y ago
Amazing book. I think the concepts around the whole Uplift trilogy are great. The first one was a little tough for me to get through, but the next two are among my all time favorites. It's interesting to think about the potential of different species.

poulsbohemian 5y ago

This isn't exactly a secret or new information... it was pretty well known when I lived on the peninsula 10+ years ago (thus the username, Poulsbohemian...). There's a state park right near the Hood Canal bridge where it isn't uncommon to watch the submarines come and go in and out of the canal. Always a bit surreal to push your kids on the swings while watching a first strike weapon capable of destroying the world pass by ;-D. I don't recall the name of the street, but there are houses with views across the water to what locals believed to be the dolphin pens...

chipsa 5y ago
Second strike weapon. It is supposed to be able to survive someone else's first strike. First strike weapons can't survive someone else's first strike. It's part of the whole "assured destruction" thing: doesn't matter if you hit us first, you're still going to end up a self lit parking lot afterwards.
- formvoltron 5y ago
  The obvious problem with mutual assured destruction is that an insane person could get ahold of the weapons, launch first, and kill all of current and future humanity. How about not strike back, just try to survive & show future generations of the world how to be. Go live in that other country that isn't radioactive.
  - slingnow 5y ago
    Those don't exist, hence why the OP didn't refer to them. They were referring to something from the actual article.
  - kerneloftruth 5y ago
    "How about not strike back, just try to survive & show future generations of the world how to be. Go live in that other country that isn't radioactive." The word for that is "surrender".
  - whatshisface 5y ago

DwnVoteHoneyPot 5y ago

Reminds me of the dogs the Russians trained to deliver bombs to the Germans. However, in the chaos of war, the dogs would get scared and run back to the owners with the bomb, killing the Russians.

rdevsrex 5y ago
That is a great example of irony.
YarickR2 5y ago
Not bombs, AT mines. And "run back to the owner and blow him up" is an anecdote/bullshit in this case

eecc 5y ago

“ The Soviet Union trained dolphins for similar harbor protection. After the fall of the USSR, the program was said to be in limbo, and the Soviet-trained dolphins are believed to have been sold to Iran in 2000.” Ah, good old 50’s paranoia: when one enemy sunsets, the next one is built-up with the scraps of the former.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

trembonator 5y ago

tester756 5y ago

>If a mine or other weapon is detected, the dolphin returns to its handler, but who places mines there? are those animals actually having missions or they just stay prepared?

krisoft 5y ago
They are on guard dutty. Do you have the same question about human military guards? 99.9% of the time they are just standing around “doing nothing”. If the trainers are any good they regularly excercise the dolphins with simulated “attacks”. > but who places mines there? Potential enemy saboteurs? Countries in the west has a long history of military infiltrators who are trained to swim/float to enemy ships and place limpet mines on them. These attacks are relatively low-tech, besides the limpet mines everything else can be bought from general sporting good / diving stores for it. Therefore we can assume such attacks are widely available to our enemies (large and small). Here is a few examples from history of such attacks: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Jaywick https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Jaywick https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frankton https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frankton Obviously all these documented cases are from the second world war, and they used folding kayaks. You can assume that a modern infiltrator has access to improved gear to stay underwater longer, devices to help them swim faster and some will have access to rebreathers too so they won’t leave a bubble trail.
ovi256 5y ago
Yes, they're prepared to defend against enemy combat divers placing mines. *In peacetime, they defend against enemy infiltrators gathering intelligence. There's a long history of combat divers, or frogmen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decima_Flottiglia_MAS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decima_Flottiglia_MAS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Crabb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Crabb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frankton https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Frankton There are many such stories. One of my favourites is of the jovial, slightly portly Italian diplomat Luigi Ferraro (in reality a frogman under diplomatic cover) during WW2 in neutral Turkey, who at night would go out to a nearby port, swim out and place limpet mines on British ships transporting vital chrome for steelmaking to Britain. Yes, let's go assemble high explosive timed devices, alone, then swim, at night, and place the devices on defended enemy ships. He sank three.

larryflint 5y ago

Glad some of that 777.7 billion budget is going to good use!

hulitu 5y ago

I wonder what PETA has to say about it.

unnouinceput 5y ago
PETA will say nothing. That cesspool of corruption will just search for the next innocent who did a selfie with a monkey to attack him, all the while they keep "releasing" dogs from shelters by killing them.

mothsonasloth 5y ago

Here is Russia's answer to this; "Navy Seals" https://youtu.be/0-unYZ6ltfI https://youtu.be/0-unYZ6ltfI

overtonwhy 5y ago

Darwin from SeaQuest!

pelasaco 5y ago

"For protection against enemy divers, dolphins will swim up to the infiltrator, bump into them and place a buoy device on their back or a limb using their mouth. The buoy then drags the outed diver to the surface for easy capture." I mean come on, "enemy divers" will just kill the dolphins or avoid contact with them..

LatteLazy 5y ago
Imagine trying to kill or avoid a shark while diving... Where is it? Which direction is it coming from? How fast is it coming? How far can you see in this water, because it can "see" you with its non-visual senses...
- pelasaco 5y ago
  except the shark isn't trying to kill you but to place a buoy on your back with it's mouth..
celticninja 5y ago
I think you are overestimating how well a diver can maenouver under water in comparison to a dolphin.
- Nullinker 5y ago
  But we should also not underestimate the ability of the enemy to train dolphins. It would be hard to send an strike team of just dolphins but I imagine a strike team of both humans and dolphins trained to fend of the defending dolphins and protect the divers would stand a chance.
  - hugh-avherald 5y ago
    How does the enemy get the trained dolphins there? And once discovered, an attack, dolphins or not, isn't going to have much success.
  - BasilPH 5y ago

Jaruzel 5y ago

Well, I'm disappointed that they don't have "frikkin lasers" on their heads.

KineticLensman 5y ago
That would be the militarized sharks.
Jaruzel 5y ago

mrfinn 5y ago

Leave animals outside the d*mn wars, FFS. Good news about all this is that maybe, hopefully, powerful alien races are actually evaluating us and they'll treat us accordingly to our BS.

jstanley 5y ago
Why is that good news?
indymike 5y ago
You are about 10,000 yeas late to the party. Horses and dogs have been used on war for about as long as humans have been fighting.
- KineticLensman 5y ago
  > Horses and dogs have been used on war for about as long as humans have been fighting Domestication of horses is surprisingly recent [0] - perhaps only 6000 years ago - compared with fighting between humans, which likely goes back to before we were even human. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestication_of_the_horse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestication_of_the_horse
  - alexb_ 5y ago
    6000 years ago is hardly recent. Cavalry is nothing new.
    - KineticLensman 5y ago
      It is recent relative to the origins of fighting in humans.
- mrfinn 5y ago
  Yeah that's the point. This cruelty party is lasting too long.

mavhc 5y ago

No info on how effective they are of course, how many people/mines have they detected vs missed?

ernesth 5y ago

Let me add yet another reference: Robert Merle's "the day of the dolphin" (un animal doué de raison) published in 1967 (so the navy began training dolphins and sea lions while reading this book). In it, the (talking) dolphins are used in a false flag attack.

dsq 5y ago

This, together the news that North Korea also has weaponized marine mammals, makes me more saddened than from the usual dismal news we hear. Even the primal innocent are being roped into our primate rivalries. It gets even worse, as each side in such an umderwater war will blast away every cetacean it detects, just in case.

signa11 5y ago
''' Even the primal innocent are being roped into our primate rivalries. ''' what's your opinion of say, horses used in olden times (heck till about WW-I, quite extensively) in battle ?
- bitxbitxbitcoin 5y ago
  Or current K-9 units?
  - anon_123g987 5y ago
    Cops still use horses, too. And routinely kill suspects' dogs (https://www.criminallegalnews.org/news/2018/jun/16/doj-police-shooting-family-dogs-has-become-epidemic/ https://www.criminallegalnews.org/news/2018/jun/16/doj-polic...).
  - throwaway032342 5y ago
    They are often used to maul people maliciously by cowards so yeah also bad
- dsq 5y ago
  The accounts of horses in war are quite horrific, and their replacement by machines in the role of war transports is gratifying.
  - DaltonCoffee 5y ago
    Indeed, the horror of their long history of participation in our primate wars puts their modern militarization in perspective. Is the modern military's exploitation of animals actually significant compared to any other time in human history?

tzs 5y ago

> Since Bangor, Washington, now houses the largest single nuclear weapons site in the world, it needs protection from all sides, including the seaward side. Well crap. I just can't seem to catch a break. When I was a kid from ages 12 until I went away to college I lived within 3 miles of Castle Air Force Base and from ages 8-12 within 7 miles of it. Castle was home to a ton of B-52s and KC-135s and probably was a prime target in most all out nuclear war doomsday scenarios. And now, many years later I'm within 5 miles of Bangor, which I'd guess is currently a prime target in that scenario (or in the North Korea tries to nuke the US scenario).

papito 5y ago
It's the best place to be - it will be over quickly.
dsq 5y ago
Though maybe being on ground zero counts as 'lucky' compared to being, say, 20 miles away in the fallout zone. One goes quickly, in the flash itself. Either that or on a Pacific Island somewhere (with a mountain, not sea level) with 10 years of supplies.
bopbeepboop 5y ago

codethief 5y ago

This reminds me of reading about the US Camel Corps the other day: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Camel_Corps https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Camel_Corps

quattrofan 5y ago

dunefox 5y ago

mcgeez 5y ago

> For protection against enemy divers, dolphins will swim up to the infiltrator, bump into them and place a buoy device on their back or a limb using their mouth. I need to see this in action. A dolphin shows up and cuffs you??

moron4hire 5y ago

I guess this is the precursor to "Cetacean Ops" in Star Trek: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Cetacean_Ops https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Cetacean_Ops

dcchambers 5y ago

I don't know if it's because the coffee hasn't kicked in yet, but I wasn't sure if this was satire or not at first.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

kerneloftruth 5y ago

I didn't realize how prescient was Dr. Evil in Austen Powers.

dqpb 5y ago

> Since 1967, the Navy has been training dolphins and sea lions (and probably other marine life) I like how they threw in "(and probably other marine life)". Always keep the enemy guessing. Is that really just a sea horse, or is it a highly trained US operative? Is that cuttlefish strobing because it thinks I'm a suitable mate, or is this some DARPA Psy Op? Even the kelp have ears...

wombat-man 5y ago

Reminds me of this old movie about George C. Scott getting duped into training a dolphen to KILL! ... The President! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Day_of_the_Dolphin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Day_of_the_Dolphin

aspyct 5y ago

And I thought dolphins in Red Alert 2 were a joke...

sxv 5y ago

Anyone have an estimate of the numbers of dolphins and sea lions currently "enlisted"? I can't find numbers anywhere.

advisedwang 5y ago
Excellent question, because it's likely a trivial number and a program that only still exists for PR purposes.

therockspush 5y ago

I remember seeing similar dolphin pens down in San Diego across from Coronado. Floating by in a little 20 foot Catalina while the sail of a nuclear sub cruises by is surreal. You can see the pens on google maps. https://www.google.com/maps/@32.701949,-117.2360585,297m/data=!3m1!1e3!5m1!1e1?hl=en https://www.google.com/maps/@32.701949,-117.2360585,297m/dat...

stefantalpalaru 5y ago