11 ms·

California school kids must get Covid vaccine under new bill

59 points by prostoalex 5y ago

bruceb 5y ago
"State Sen. Richard Pan (D-Sacramento) will announce Monday morning a bill to add COVID-19 vaccines to California’s list of required inoculations for attending K-12 schools, a move that would override Gov. Gavin Newsom’s scaled-back mandate from last year." Just to be clear this is a proposed bill. Lots of bills are proposed that don't even get voted on. Long way from becoming law.
- edmcnulty101 5y ago
  Seems like a reasonable bill to CA people, with a decent chance of being passed though right? Seems like most urban CA people would go for something like this. Help prevent spread of Covid with virtually no downside. Californians should ALL be mandated to take the vaccine not just kids. Masks could also possibly be a target for a future permanent mandate by the government of CA. COVID is just one of many respiratory diseases that are dangerous to certain vulnerable groups. Drug resistant TB, SARS, the Flu. California should really be the leader in pathogen safety here and enact vaccine and mask mandates for ALL of it's citizens. Gloves could be a good safety option as well.
  - encryptluks2 5y ago
    This would be like mandating flu vaccines for children. They are unnecessary for their age group, and not very effective against variants like Omicron.
    - version_five 5y ago
      > mandating flu vaccines One of my big fears is that this is coming. People have been emboldened and received very little pushback against forcing others to get the covid vaccine, and to prove it wherever they go. How long until we start hearing "flu vaccine saves lives, I have the right to know if someone around me isnt vaccinated, etc etc". I'm almost afraid to say it out loud, and I bet a lot of people here already support it. Childhood vaccination against Polio and the other big and previously debilitating childhood illnesses is nothing like mandating a covid vaccine, especially during a live event where the guidance and effectiveness is changing daily.
      - 3825 5y ago
        I fully support it. The only thing that gives me pause is the cost. As long as the vaccine is easily available free of cost, I am OK with a mandate.
        version_five 5y ago
        Obviously I dont, and I think it would be boring to get into the pros and cons, but what I'd suggest thinking about if we go down this road is a constitutional amendment, one way or the other, to either say "here is an enumeration of the powers government has to impose vaccines/treatments on people", or "people have a specific right not to be subjected to mandates" in order to get a greater clarity and settle the discussion from a government powers perspective. We can argue all we like about what's constitutional now, but it would be much better to actually clarify it, for better or worse. I don't see much chance of this happening in the current environment, but I think it would elevate the debate
        ryantgtg 5y ago
        Are we using the word “mandate” correctly? So far all I’m seeing are requirements in order to utilize certain public/private resources (like visiting a place). But if you’re not using those resources, then the vaccine isn’t required. I’d think a “mandate” would entail requiring the vaccine for everyone.
        edmcnulty101 5y ago
        It's a mandate because it's not 'the places' choice whether to enforce it or not on their own property.
        ryantgtg 5y ago
        Thanks. I hadn't really looked at it from that perspective. But still that's not mandating that people _get_ the vaccine. That's mandating that a _business_ requires customers/employees to have it (and there are always ways to get accommodations). Overall, it's confusing to me because I see people arguing "no one should be forced to get a jab who doesn't want one!" But so far I'm not seeing instances of that occurring, so it's unclear why they're arguing that (unless it's mostly a pre-emptive, which is fine and understandable).
  - amscanne 5y ago
    The previous mandate required the vaccine starting the semester after full approval. This mandates it regardless if it still under emergency use authorization. The latter strikes me as unreasonable.
    - hammock 5y ago
      This bill also would eliminate the personal belief exemption (possibly unconstitutional).
vmception 5y ago
Bill dead in the water, even in the densest populated areas with the most government involvement, everyone knows the entire current mitigation response is just performance theatre by now, it doesn't have the fear or political support. The only point of this headline is for people that aren't in California to be presented with an article that matches what they already think about California. If it helps you to know, even in vaccine-passport municipalities most people are laughing at this, while they momentarily put on a cloth mask (that's useless against the omicron variant as nobody has n95's) at a crowded bar just to pass through the door. and for the others that had no idea life has been back to normal for quite some time, if you're in an at-risk population we are absolutely not in this together. its a completely parallel world.
onphonenow 5y ago
Damn, we've lost our mind in CA Banned visiting beaches during the early phases - you had to crowd into indoor spaces. What - actually - is the current death rate among children from this thing? I wish these stories would come with actual data. Any questioning of the traditional line - gets slammed down. Quick note - if they say sky is falling (ie, kids > 5 dying at high rates - mandatory vaccination or no school on an unapproved vaccine for this age group) but won't actually share the data despite the incredible high number of cases (ie, should be able to do some analysis by now) they are probably hiding something. "Still, among Omicron cases reported to TESSy, 1.14% were hospitalised, 0.16% required ICU admission/respiratory support, and 0.06% died" - https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/news-events/weekly-epidemiological-update-omicron-variant-concern-voc-week-2-data-20-january-2022 https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/news-events/weekly-epidemiolog... Can anyone find an age based version of this?
- jjulius 5y ago
  >Banned visiting beaches during the early phases - you had to crowd into indoor spaces. You mean the beaches that were closed during the same time they had banned large indoor gatherings?
  - s1artibartfast 5y ago
    Yes, and hiking trails
  - errthrht 5y ago
    - jjulius 5y ago
      Breathe, it's going to be OK.
      - errthrht 5y ago
- 5y ago
PragmaticPulp 5y ago
FYI, in case you don’t have kids: A number of vaccines are already required for school children. If COVID continues to be a problem, it’s not surprising at all that the vaccine will get added to those lists.
- nikolay 5y ago
- timr 5y ago
  > If COVID continues to be a problem, it’s not surprising at all that the vaccine will get added to those lists. There's a huge difference. This vaccine has a miniscule benefit for kids. We've never before mandated a vaccine for children that didn't provide a sizable benefit to the child him or herself. Mandatory vaccinations for school-age children exclusively target illnesses with high childhood morbidity/mortality: Measles, Polio, Chickenpox, DtP. SARS-CoV2, thankfully, is safer than influenza for kids. As of right now, the CDC says that 727 kids have died in the US with Covid throughout the entire pandemic: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm
  - Avshalom 5y ago
    I had to get tetanus and hep-b vaccines to go to school in Florida twenty years ago. ETA: here's the current list of required vaccines in FL http://www.floridahealth.gov/programs-and-services/immunization/children-and-adolescents/school-immunization-requirements/index.html http://www.floridahealth.gov/programs-and-services/immunizat...
    - TheSpiceIsLife 5y ago
      The tetanus vaccine for children probably makes sense. In recent years, tetanus has been fatal in approximately 11% of reported cases. Cases most likely to be fatal are those occurring in persons age 60 years or older and unvaccinated persons. In about 20% of tetanus deaths, no obvious pathology is identified and death is attributed to the direct effects of tetanus toxin. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/tetanus.html https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/tetanus.html I'd argue the heb-b vaccine is a good idea too.
baskethead 5y ago
Even members of the FDA panel that approved the vaccine for kids was against the idea of vaccine mandates for children, even though they approved it for use. https://www.politico.com/news/2021/10/26/fda-panel-endorses-covid-19-shot-for-kids-5-11-years-old-517236 https://www.politico.com/news/2021/10/26/fda-panel-endorses-... "I'm just worried that if we say yes that the states are going to mandate administration of this vaccine to children in order to go to school, and I do not agree with that," he added. "I think that would be an error at this time until we get more information about the safety.”
- khuey 5y ago
  The FDA panel that approved boosters was waffling on that and turned out to be extremely wrong.
  - baskethead 5y ago
    I wonder what their opinion would be if they knew back then that the vaccine would be rendered completely ineffective against omicron? My children were fully vaccinated and got infected over the holidays. They continued to test positive for 2 weeks. Mandating a vaccine that is useless to a group of the population that already don't need the vaccine because they are inherently protected from severe illness and death is 100% anti-science. A "pandemic of bureaucracy" is indeed the correct term for what we are facing today.
    - khuey 5y ago
      The vaccine is not "completely ineffective" against omicron. Effectiveness against hospitalization and especially death continues to be excellent.
      - baskethead 5y ago
        Not for children.
      - mizzack 5y ago
crackercrews 5y ago
Seems weird that this applies equally to people who have already had COVID. Yes, you can get COVID a second time. But you can also get COVID after having had a vaccine, or three. There are other required vaccinations. But those are for illnesses that virtually no kid actually gets. By next school year, probably 3/4 of all kids will have had COVID.
- hellisothers 5y ago
  > But those are for illnesses that virtually no kid actually gets… Because everybody has been vaccinated and we’ve reached heard immunity? Maybe we’ll get there one day with Covid, if everybody will get vaccinated, or at least as well as the flu
  - lowbloodsugar 5y ago
    Yeah, remember when we vaccinated everyone for Polio? Nobody gets Polio! What a waste of time and money! </sarcasm>
    - abfan1127 5y ago
      except the Polio vaccine is different from the Covid vaccine. The Covid vaccine only provides protection from serious hospitalization. It doesn't stop you from getting it and sharing it. It doesn't stop the spread. Vaccinating children with this style of vaccine does nothing for the pandemic other than sell more vaccine doses.
  - collias 5y ago
    Herd immunity only applies if the vaccine is sterilizing and prevents infection. The Covid vaccines do not, so herd immunity is impossible with them.
    - bitshiftfaced 5y ago
      Seems more nuanced than that. Herd immunity is a function of how contagious you are, which with COVID is a function of how symptomatic you are, right? I think someone who's having coughing fits will more likely spread it. If the vaccine decreases symptoms, then it strengthens herd immunity. Also, even if herd immunity is impossible, some reduced spread is a good thing by itself
errthrht 5y ago
mangix 5y ago
I assume this includes the Johnson and Johnson vaccine. Moderna is banned in certain european countries for people under 30 because of myocarditis risk.
- rsfern 5y ago
  Those countries generally still offer pfizer for that age group, which has lower myocarditis risk than moderna (presumably because of the dose mostly). I think a lot of European countries also still use astra zeneca, not sure about J&J but they are similar platforms.
Beaver117 5y ago
Yes let's donate more money to Pfizer
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
somewhereoutth 5y ago
Eventually the politicization will die down and this will be the norm everywhere.
hyperpape 5y ago
For folks who say "Covid doesn't kill that many kids", it kills more than several diseases we've vaccinated kids against for years: https://twitter.com/zeynep/status/1480679054541996033 https://twitter.com/zeynep/status/1480679054541996033. We require those vaccinations for school attendence and have for years. We vaccinate kids against chickenpox too (though we didn't when I was a kid). I remember my 1st grade class singing happy birthday to me over the phone. I was home sick, missed a week of school. I didn't die, I didn't go to the hospital. Fast forward: I got my kids chicken-pox vaccines. Edit: it looks like chicken pox might've posed similar risk to kids as Covid, maybe up to 2x more? Not 100% sure of that, and I have a weak belief that Omicron is more dangerous to kids. I don't think that affects my overall point, but better to be clear and not overstate things. Second edit: Varicella in the original tweet is Chickenpox, which would indicate less danger to kids. Not sure why the numbers are different.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  You also have to consider how long the vaccines were around and approved prior to being mandated. Some of these vaccines are still not mandated by most states, and many states have exemptions if you demonstrate immunity.
yalogin 5y ago
I don't understand this obsession against vaccines. Even looking at it selfishly, Science has done the US so much good and over the course of this pandemic I am shocked how prevalent anti-science thinking is here. Actually it feels like people in the US more and more are becoming against experts of any kind. Worst part is they think they know better than these experts. As someone not born in the country, growing up every medical miracle I remember came out of the US, and now this deep anti science thinking is tough to stomach. For all the furore this is invoking its just a proposal and there are a lot of them that are done just to garner headlines. If we were practical, the only thing this will do is provide itself as proof in a narrative against "crazy" CA and nothing else.
- disambiguation 5y ago
  That cuts both ways. What's the obsession with getting everyone vaccinated? The CDC withheld data about efficacy of natural immunity up until recently, and still won't amend their stance to recognize it as a valid alternative to the vaccines like many other countries have. Is that not anti-science? Just because they're experts doesn't mean they're on your side.
- raxxorrax 5y ago
  Vaccinating children is a political opinion, not a scientific one. And there are enough experts against it too.
disambiguation 5y ago
I can't make sense of this. Is it simply government and pharma teaming up to grab as much money and power as possible before the show is over? Covid is clearly coming to an end. The UK and Ireland just lifted all restrictions. [0] [1] The East Coast is over the hump. [2] School kids are probably last on the long list of cohorts that should be getting a vaccine mandate. [3] Further, the vaccine isn't sterilizing. It's 2 strains behind. How does this mandate parse with an open ended definition of "fully vaccinated"? > Under the bill, the California Department of Public Health could mandate vaccines in the future without requiring the state to offer personal belief exemptions, a move that would make it easier to add COVID-19 boosters or other immunizations for students without a lengthy legislative process. This is flat out absurd. [0] https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/uk-lifts-covid-restrictions-omicron-wave-peaked-82349201 https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/uk-lifts-covid-restr... [1] https://consent.yahoo.com/v2/collectConsent?sessionId=1_cc-session_543cc645-7292-4df2-abd3-e080b6e0c3ef https://consent.yahoo.com/v2/collectConsent?sessionId=1_cc-s... [2] https://www.mwra.com/biobot/biobotdata.htm https://www.mwra.com/biobot/biobotdata.htm [3] https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex-and-Age/9bhg-hcku https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex...
- moistly 5y ago
  Covid sure as hell is NOT coming to an end. It is a novel virus that rapidly mutates and infects animal populations including pets. It will be coming back over and over again, just like the flu, but with a lot greater chance of flaring back up into a global pandemic and with much more likelihood of causing severely detrimental outcomes. We are NEVER going back to “November 2019 normal.” It is daft to think otherwise.
  - disambiguation 5y ago
    Spanish flu.
Handytinge 5y ago
https://archive.is/2Z3kX https://archive.is/2Z3kX

59 points by prostoalex 5y ago

"State Sen. Richard Pan (D-Sacramento) will announce Monday morning a bill to add COVID-19 vaccines to California’s list of required inoculations for attending K-12 schools, a move that would override Gov. Gavin Newsom’s scaled-back mandate from last year." Just to be clear this is a proposed bill. Lots of bills are proposed that don't even get voted on. Long way from becoming law.

edmcnulty101 5y ago
Seems like a reasonable bill to CA people, with a decent chance of being passed though right? Seems like most urban CA people would go for something like this. Help prevent spread of Covid with virtually no downside. Californians should ALL be mandated to take the vaccine not just kids. Masks could also possibly be a target for a future permanent mandate by the government of CA. COVID is just one of many respiratory diseases that are dangerous to certain vulnerable groups. Drug resistant TB, SARS, the Flu. California should really be the leader in pathogen safety here and enact vaccine and mask mandates for ALL of it's citizens. Gloves could be a good safety option as well.
- encryptluks2 5y ago
  This would be like mandating flu vaccines for children. They are unnecessary for their age group, and not very effective against variants like Omicron.
  - version_five 5y ago
    > mandating flu vaccines One of my big fears is that this is coming. People have been emboldened and received very little pushback against forcing others to get the covid vaccine, and to prove it wherever they go. How long until we start hearing "flu vaccine saves lives, I have the right to know if someone around me isnt vaccinated, etc etc". I'm almost afraid to say it out loud, and I bet a lot of people here already support it. Childhood vaccination against Polio and the other big and previously debilitating childhood illnesses is nothing like mandating a covid vaccine, especially during a live event where the guidance and effectiveness is changing daily.
    - 3825 5y ago
      I fully support it. The only thing that gives me pause is the cost. As long as the vaccine is easily available free of cost, I am OK with a mandate.
      - version_five 5y ago
        Obviously I dont, and I think it would be boring to get into the pros and cons, but what I'd suggest thinking about if we go down this road is a constitutional amendment, one way or the other, to either say "here is an enumeration of the powers government has to impose vaccines/treatments on people", or "people have a specific right not to be subjected to mandates" in order to get a greater clarity and settle the discussion from a government powers perspective. We can argue all we like about what's constitutional now, but it would be much better to actually clarify it, for better or worse. I don't see much chance of this happening in the current environment, but I think it would elevate the debate
        ryantgtg 5y ago
        Are we using the word “mandate” correctly? So far all I’m seeing are requirements in order to utilize certain public/private resources (like visiting a place). But if you’re not using those resources, then the vaccine isn’t required. I’d think a “mandate” would entail requiring the vaccine for everyone.
        edmcnulty101 5y ago
        It's a mandate because it's not 'the places' choice whether to enforce it or not on their own property.
        ryantgtg 5y ago
        Thanks. I hadn't really looked at it from that perspective. But still that's not mandating that people _get_ the vaccine. That's mandating that a _business_ requires customers/employees to have it (and there are always ways to get accommodations). Overall, it's confusing to me because I see people arguing "no one should be forced to get a jab who doesn't want one!" But so far I'm not seeing instances of that occurring, so it's unclear why they're arguing that (unless it's mostly a pre-emptive, which is fine and understandable).
- amscanne 5y ago
  The previous mandate required the vaccine starting the semester after full approval. This mandates it regardless if it still under emergency use authorization. The latter strikes me as unreasonable.
  - hammock 5y ago
    This bill also would eliminate the personal belief exemption (possibly unconstitutional).

vmception 5y ago

Bill dead in the water, even in the densest populated areas with the most government involvement, everyone knows the entire current mitigation response is just performance theatre by now, it doesn't have the fear or political support. The only point of this headline is for people that aren't in California to be presented with an article that matches what they already think about California. If it helps you to know, even in vaccine-passport municipalities most people are laughing at this, while they momentarily put on a cloth mask (that's useless against the omicron variant as nobody has n95's) at a crowded bar just to pass through the door. and for the others that had no idea life has been back to normal for quite some time, if you're in an at-risk population we are absolutely not in this together. its a completely parallel world.

onphonenow 5y ago

Damn, we've lost our mind in CA Banned visiting beaches during the early phases - you had to crowd into indoor spaces. What - actually - is the current death rate among children from this thing? I wish these stories would come with actual data. Any questioning of the traditional line - gets slammed down. Quick note - if they say sky is falling (ie, kids > 5 dying at high rates - mandatory vaccination or no school on an unapproved vaccine for this age group) but won't actually share the data despite the incredible high number of cases (ie, should be able to do some analysis by now) they are probably hiding something. "Still, among Omicron cases reported to TESSy, 1.14% were hospitalised, 0.16% required ICU admission/respiratory support, and 0.06% died" - https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/news-events/weekly-epidemiological-update-omicron-variant-concern-voc-week-2-data-20-january-2022 https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/news-events/weekly-epidemiolog... Can anyone find an age based version of this?

jjulius 5y ago
>Banned visiting beaches during the early phases - you had to crowd into indoor spaces. You mean the beaches that were closed during the same time they had banned large indoor gatherings?
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  Yes, and hiking trails
- errthrht 5y ago
  - jjulius 5y ago
    Breathe, it's going to be OK.
    - errthrht 5y ago
5y ago

PragmaticPulp 5y ago

FYI, in case you don’t have kids: A number of vaccines are already required for school children. If COVID continues to be a problem, it’s not surprising at all that the vaccine will get added to those lists.

nikolay 5y ago
timr 5y ago
> If COVID continues to be a problem, it’s not surprising at all that the vaccine will get added to those lists. There's a huge difference. This vaccine has a miniscule benefit for kids. We've never before mandated a vaccine for children that didn't provide a sizable benefit to the child him or herself. Mandatory vaccinations for school-age children exclusively target illnesses with high childhood morbidity/mortality: Measles, Polio, Chickenpox, DtP. SARS-CoV2, thankfully, is safer than influenza for kids. As of right now, the CDC says that 727 kids have died in the US with Covid throughout the entire pandemic: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm
- Avshalom 5y ago
  I had to get tetanus and hep-b vaccines to go to school in Florida twenty years ago. ETA: here's the current list of required vaccines in FL http://www.floridahealth.gov/programs-and-services/immunization/children-and-adolescents/school-immunization-requirements/index.html http://www.floridahealth.gov/programs-and-services/immunizat...
  - TheSpiceIsLife 5y ago
    The tetanus vaccine for children probably makes sense. In recent years, tetanus has been fatal in approximately 11% of reported cases. Cases most likely to be fatal are those occurring in persons age 60 years or older and unvaccinated persons. In about 20% of tetanus deaths, no obvious pathology is identified and death is attributed to the direct effects of tetanus toxin. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/tetanus.html https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/tetanus.html I'd argue the heb-b vaccine is a good idea too.

baskethead 5y ago

Even members of the FDA panel that approved the vaccine for kids was against the idea of vaccine mandates for children, even though they approved it for use. https://www.politico.com/news/2021/10/26/fda-panel-endorses-covid-19-shot-for-kids-5-11-years-old-517236 https://www.politico.com/news/2021/10/26/fda-panel-endorses-... "I'm just worried that if we say yes that the states are going to mandate administration of this vaccine to children in order to go to school, and I do not agree with that," he added. "I think that would be an error at this time until we get more information about the safety.”

khuey 5y ago
The FDA panel that approved boosters was waffling on that and turned out to be extremely wrong.
- baskethead 5y ago
  I wonder what their opinion would be if they knew back then that the vaccine would be rendered completely ineffective against omicron? My children were fully vaccinated and got infected over the holidays. They continued to test positive for 2 weeks. Mandating a vaccine that is useless to a group of the population that already don't need the vaccine because they are inherently protected from severe illness and death is 100% anti-science. A "pandemic of bureaucracy" is indeed the correct term for what we are facing today.
  - khuey 5y ago
    The vaccine is not "completely ineffective" against omicron. Effectiveness against hospitalization and especially death continues to be excellent.
    - baskethead 5y ago
      Not for children.
    - mizzack 5y ago

crackercrews 5y ago

Seems weird that this applies equally to people who have already had COVID. Yes, you can get COVID a second time. But you can also get COVID after having had a vaccine, or three. There are other required vaccinations. But those are for illnesses that virtually no kid actually gets. By next school year, probably 3/4 of all kids will have had COVID.

hellisothers 5y ago
> But those are for illnesses that virtually no kid actually gets… Because everybody has been vaccinated and we’ve reached heard immunity? Maybe we’ll get there one day with Covid, if everybody will get vaccinated, or at least as well as the flu
- lowbloodsugar 5y ago
  Yeah, remember when we vaccinated everyone for Polio? Nobody gets Polio! What a waste of time and money! </sarcasm>
  - abfan1127 5y ago
    except the Polio vaccine is different from the Covid vaccine. The Covid vaccine only provides protection from serious hospitalization. It doesn't stop you from getting it and sharing it. It doesn't stop the spread. Vaccinating children with this style of vaccine does nothing for the pandemic other than sell more vaccine doses.
- collias 5y ago
  Herd immunity only applies if the vaccine is sterilizing and prevents infection. The Covid vaccines do not, so herd immunity is impossible with them.
  - bitshiftfaced 5y ago
    Seems more nuanced than that. Herd immunity is a function of how contagious you are, which with COVID is a function of how symptomatic you are, right? I think someone who's having coughing fits will more likely spread it. If the vaccine decreases symptoms, then it strengthens herd immunity. Also, even if herd immunity is impossible, some reduced spread is a good thing by itself

errthrht 5y ago

mangix 5y ago

I assume this includes the Johnson and Johnson vaccine. Moderna is banned in certain european countries for people under 30 because of myocarditis risk.

rsfern 5y ago
Those countries generally still offer pfizer for that age group, which has lower myocarditis risk than moderna (presumably because of the dose mostly). I think a lot of European countries also still use astra zeneca, not sure about J&J but they are similar platforms.

Beaver117 5y ago

Yes let's donate more money to Pfizer

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

somewhereoutth 5y ago

Eventually the politicization will die down and this will be the norm everywhere.

hyperpape 5y ago

For folks who say "Covid doesn't kill that many kids", it kills more than several diseases we've vaccinated kids against for years: https://twitter.com/zeynep/status/1480679054541996033 https://twitter.com/zeynep/status/1480679054541996033. We require those vaccinations for school attendence and have for years. We vaccinate kids against chickenpox too (though we didn't when I was a kid). I remember my 1st grade class singing happy birthday to me over the phone. I was home sick, missed a week of school. I didn't die, I didn't go to the hospital. Fast forward: I got my kids chicken-pox vaccines. Edit: it looks like chicken pox might've posed similar risk to kids as Covid, maybe up to 2x more? Not 100% sure of that, and I have a weak belief that Omicron is more dangerous to kids. I don't think that affects my overall point, but better to be clear and not overstate things. Second edit: Varicella in the original tweet is Chickenpox, which would indicate less danger to kids. Not sure why the numbers are different.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
s1artibartfast 5y ago
You also have to consider how long the vaccines were around and approved prior to being mandated. Some of these vaccines are still not mandated by most states, and many states have exemptions if you demonstrate immunity.

yalogin 5y ago

I don't understand this obsession against vaccines. Even looking at it selfishly, Science has done the US so much good and over the course of this pandemic I am shocked how prevalent anti-science thinking is here. Actually it feels like people in the US more and more are becoming against experts of any kind. Worst part is they think they know better than these experts. As someone not born in the country, growing up every medical miracle I remember came out of the US, and now this deep anti science thinking is tough to stomach. For all the furore this is invoking its just a proposal and there are a lot of them that are done just to garner headlines. If we were practical, the only thing this will do is provide itself as proof in a narrative against "crazy" CA and nothing else.

disambiguation 5y ago
That cuts both ways. What's the obsession with getting everyone vaccinated? The CDC withheld data about efficacy of natural immunity up until recently, and still won't amend their stance to recognize it as a valid alternative to the vaccines like many other countries have. Is that not anti-science? Just because they're experts doesn't mean they're on your side.
raxxorrax 5y ago
Vaccinating children is a political opinion, not a scientific one. And there are enough experts against it too.

disambiguation 5y ago

I can't make sense of this. Is it simply government and pharma teaming up to grab as much money and power as possible before the show is over? Covid is clearly coming to an end. The UK and Ireland just lifted all restrictions. [0] [1] The East Coast is over the hump. [2] School kids are probably last on the long list of cohorts that should be getting a vaccine mandate. [3] Further, the vaccine isn't sterilizing. It's 2 strains behind. How does this mandate parse with an open ended definition of "fully vaccinated"? > Under the bill, the California Department of Public Health could mandate vaccines in the future without requiring the state to offer personal belief exemptions, a move that would make it easier to add COVID-19 boosters or other immunizations for students without a lengthy legislative process. This is flat out absurd. [0] https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/uk-lifts-covid-restrictions-omicron-wave-peaked-82349201 https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/uk-lifts-covid-restr... [1] https://consent.yahoo.com/v2/collectConsent?sessionId=1_cc-session_543cc645-7292-4df2-abd3-e080b6e0c3ef https://consent.yahoo.com/v2/collectConsent?sessionId=1_cc-s... [2] https://www.mwra.com/biobot/biobotdata.htm https://www.mwra.com/biobot/biobotdata.htm [3] https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex-and-Age/9bhg-hcku https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex...

moistly 5y ago
Covid sure as hell is NOT coming to an end. It is a novel virus that rapidly mutates and infects animal populations including pets. It will be coming back over and over again, just like the flu, but with a lot greater chance of flaring back up into a global pandemic and with much more likelihood of causing severely detrimental outcomes. We are NEVER going back to “November 2019 normal.” It is daft to think otherwise.
- disambiguation 5y ago
  Spanish flu.

Handytinge 5y ago

https://archive.is/2Z3kX https://archive.is/2Z3kX