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If you haven’t heard the good news about the reverse sear yet, today is your lucky day. https://www.seriouseats.com/reverse-seared-steak-recipe https://www.ser

If you haven’t heard the good news about the reverse sear yet, today is your lucky day. https://www.seriouseats.com/reverse-seared-steak-recipe https://www.seriouseats.com/reverse-seared-steak-recipe

AdmiralAsshat 5y ago
Having compared the methods in my own kitchen, I'm also coming around to the idea that the reverse sear is a better method than sous vide, because I seem to get a better crust on the steak (likely because the steak is dryer than what I can remove from the s-v'd steak with paper towels). But, I find this only holds true for really nice cuts like filet mignon. If I want to cook a cheaper steak like a NY strip, I think the sous vide method produces a much more tender piece of meat, probably because I can cook it longer without overcooking it.
- bradleyjg 5y ago
  Haven’t yet gone down the SV road myself. I intend to buy the equipment and start playing around some time this year.
- tptacek 5y ago
  I've done the same tests with ribeyes and strips and, in a triangle test, you can't tell the difference between a circulator cook to 54c and a toaster oven reverse-sear cook to 45c (both followed by a hard sear). I really can't see much reason to circulate steaks anymore; there isn't even really a convenience win to it.
  - fisherjeff 5y ago
    Hard disagree on convenience: Timing hot steaks with hot sides is virtually effortless with a circulator
    - tptacek 5y ago
      Not really. You have the same problem either way, because you've gotta sear both steaks. If you're going to need to hold the cooked reverse-sear steaks, bring them up to 120-124 (your final target temp is 128-132) instead of 115. I get what you're saying (I've got like 4 different circulators here, I'm not against them!) but the reverse sear is forgiving and flexible enough that I don't really even get a convenience win from it. (For calibration: my modal steak is a Whole Foods ribeye or strip, unmodified except for being salted ahead of time).
      - fisherjeff 5y ago
        Likewise, I’m 100% not against a pure reverse sear. I just prefer to focus on getting the sides prepped and done, knowing that whenever they’re ready, the meat’s only a few minutes out.
      - JshWright 5y ago
        For me the convenience factor has to do with the fact that I can vacuum seal and freeze a bunch of meat at once, then it's just a matter of tossing the vacuum sealed bag in the circulator a few hours before dinner. Then I just need to pull it out, hit it with the torch, and we're ready to eat. I suspect the longer cooking time to account for the meant being frozen helps with fat rendering. We buy half a beef every six months or so (split with my parents, so I guess it's technically 5/7th's of a half? 5/14th's of a cow?). For a few hours on a weekend doing some prep/portioning, I can dramatically reduce the workload for several week's worth of meals. Obviously there's other tradeoffs involved and different personal circumstances to consider, but for me the circulator wins out from a convenience perspective.
    - gruez 5y ago
      I fail to see how a circulator is more convenient or effortless. For starters you need to prep a bag and a pot of water if you're using a circulator. On the other hand with reverse sear all you need to do is stick a thermometer in, throw it on a pan/rack and put it in an oven. After you're done with the circulator you have to wrangle with a wet bag full of beef liquid and dry off the steak (otherwise your sear will be impaired). With reverse sear you can take it directly from the oven to the pan. During the sear stage, the timing you need is minimal for both. You only need to get the pan as hot as you can get it, and sear both sides until it's charred to your liking.
- gruez 5y ago
  >probably because I can cook it longer without overcooking it. how long are we talking here? 1 hour? 2 hours?
- weeksie 5y ago
  A strip is not a "cheaper" steak than a filet. Filet mignon is a fine cut, it's low in flavor but very tender which means that it tastes better when it's extra rare. Well marbled cuts of steak are usually better at mid-rare b/c the fat melts a little. I do like sous vide for very thick steaks with some marbling—so a strip is a pretty decent one for the dip. However, I've found ribeyes come out spongey when you sous vide them and are better off being reverse seared. Edit: if you're shopping in the supermarket, filets will usually be more expensive. If you're buying prime dry aged from a butcher, it's a different story, mostly because filets aren't usually dry aged. Check Pat's steaks for reference: https://shop.lafrieda.com/collections/dry-aged-beef https://shop.lafrieda.com/collections/dry-aged-beef
  - darkerside 5y ago
    I typically see strip steaks for way cheaper than filets per pound at the market (US). Since it's so tender, I've always felt filet are OK to cook a little more well, and you solve for the flavor with sauce, seasoning, or marinade.
    - tptacek 5y ago
      Strips and ribeyes are much more forgiving than filets because filets have very little intramuscular fat. Strips are ribeyes also taste much better than filets because filets have very little intramuscular fat. Don't buy filets. :)
  - gruez 5y ago
    >A strip is not a "cheaper" steak than a filet. But objectively speaking a strip steak is cheaper. Based on my observations of supermarket sale prices, the ranking goes: fillet > ribeye > strip > others that I don't bother with (sirloin/round)
    - tptacek 5y ago
      You are missing out on some truly excellent steaks: the hanger is like a cross between the ribeye and the skirt; the skirt is no slouch either! and if you've got some Activa RM handy, you can make a triple-thickness skirt, which is incredibly good; the spider steak (compare to the "oyster" of a chicken leg) is maybe the world's greatest sandwich steak; the tri-tip, which takes a marinade far better than any of the expensive steaks, and which the circulator will make just as tender as a fillet; and the picanha, which is the single greatest grill steak --- I would trade 2 ribeyes for 1 picanha if I was planning to grill.
- giraffe_lady 5y ago
  I was a professional chef for many years before I got into coding and I very rarely use a sous vide at home. The practical advantages of it have a lot more to do with timing, prep dynamics, and consistency than they do with final quality. There are some things that it makes possible or easy that are otherwise nearly inaccessible to home cooks and that is cool if you want to play around with it. Or if I'm cooking 6 steaks for guests or whatever but that's not a problem I've been having recently. But otherwise I don't find too much value in it personally.
  - foobarian 5y ago
    Not a chef but I also found sous vide to cause more problems than it solves for cooking steaks. The biggest problem I have with it is that the fatty marbling does not render to the extent it does on a grill, because I can't afford to sear it as long as on the grill to avoid overcooking it. So I end up with a nice brown sear only on the surface, but then as soon as you bite into it you're met with almost raw fat. It's gross :)
    - tptacek 5y ago
      There's a very simple fix for this problem, which is just to hold the steak for an hour or so to lower the temp (and give more breathing room for the sear) before you sear it off --- which also dries the exterior of the steak and improves the sear.
      - foobarian 5y ago
        That's an interesting idea, thanks. I can see continuing to SV for cuts of meat that really need it, e.g. a whole tenderloin. Otherwise I still find it more work for less result than a charcoal grill. Speaking of which it's annoying to reverse sear on a grill because covering it first for 10 or so minutes cools it down enough that the sear is not as nice as when it's done on the higher heat achieved without a cover.
  - emmanuel_1234 5y ago
    Definitely agree with the "cooking 6 steaks for guests". This is my secret trick at barbecues: I pre-cook a bunch of steaks that I keep warn in an ice-chest (with no ice, obviously), then as guest comes and goes, I sear them, which takes a few minutes only. Every group of arriving guest gets to eat a nice perfectly cooked steak, straight out of the fire. My other secret trick is to sous-vide chicken wings, so I don't have to fear about contamination of my tools, people being like "is it cooked enough? It looks pink". After sous-viding, I leave them on a cold side of the barbecue until they turn golden brown: the meat is soft, moist and almost candied. It's fool proof as they'll never really have a chance to burn and they always come up perfect.
- Xcelerate 5y ago
  I agree with you, and I’m not entirely sure why, because I think it involves more than just the crust. It has something to do with the interior of the meat as well. I own a small Breville oven, and since it’s PID controlled, I set it at a very low temperature like 160 F and then put a separate probe in the meat to pull it at just the right temperature (takes a few hours). I end up with edge to edge evenness and a nice crust as well. It beats the Joule every time I’ve tried it. I will say that I haven’t found anything that beats sous vide for chicken and duck though.
tptacek 5y ago
100%. I've done just about everything you can do to a steak, and for the past year or so my bulletproof standard method has simply been "set toaster oven to 250, cook steak for 20 minutes until it's 110-115, then take it out and sear it". It's better than the circulator steaks.
- gruez 5y ago
  >set toaster oven to 250, cook steak for 20 minutes That seems really fast, at least compared to the time I get with a regular oven. Either you're using really thin steaks, or your toaster oven's temperature is way off.
  - tptacek 5y ago
    I'm cooking to temp, not to time; I pull them when the Thermapen says the steak's near 115. But I set the timer on my toaster oven to 20 minutes (after preheating, starting immediately when the steaks go in) and watch out of the corner of my eye for the display to go blue when the timer expires, which is when I check the steak temp the first time. I guess every once in awhile I end up giving it another 5 minutes, but it's pretty reliable. Two things: 1. The toaster oven is probably more efficient than your regular oven (put an electronic grill thermometer in your oven and watch the temperature fluctuations; do the same with a toaster oven, compare). 2. I've usually got the convection thingy on in the toaster (I just forget to turn it off). It doesn't much matter either way, though: the point is, it goes in the oven and comes out when it reads ~115 when I stick it. :)
    - gruez 5y ago
      >It doesn't much matter either way, though: the point is, it goes in the oven and comes out when it reads ~115 when I stick it. :) But shouldn't the oven temperature matter? The hotter the oven is, the hotter the outside of the meat will get, even if you pull out the steak at 115 exactly. If you want the steak to be as even as possible, you want the oven temperature to be as low as possible.
      - 5y ago
abakker 5y ago
I do this in a smoker sometimes. Smoke to 100*, rest, and then sear on grill or in pan. Don’t use much smoke. Can be a really killer way to do ribeyes and porterhouse.
- bobbygunderson 5y ago
  Yep yep yep. And I’ll also echo don’t use much smoke - I went way overboard with some mesquite to see what it would be like, and it was fine but definitely detracted. A light smoke then a char is chef’s kiss though.
  - abakker 5y ago
    What’s your favorite wood? I used peach recently and it was nice, but I’d be open to try anything.
  - cthalupa 5y ago
    I do a decent amount of smoking (not steaks, too often, though sometimes) and I tend to mostly avoid mesquite, or use it very sparingly. It's STRONG. I'm not afraid to use a good amount of post oak or cherry when smoking anything, including steaks, though.
tzs 5y ago
That's what I do (but I got it from the first episode of "Good Eats Reloaded"), except that I go until the temperature near the center is the temperature I want for the final temperature rather than the 15℉ below that which is what that article recommends. I'm using a 200℉ oven (well, that is what it is set to...I don't know how accurate that is), and found it heats the steak gently enough that the center temperature doesn't really rise much after it is taken out. The searing is on the hottest my stovetop can make my pan, which is about 500℉. I do 45 seconds on each side. That doesn't seem to be long enough to have much effect other than near the surface.
- tptacek 5y ago
  Here's some graphs of temperature changes during sears (also bearing in mind that the steak keeps increasing in temperature for a couple minutes after you pull it from the oven). https://genuineideas.com/Assets/imageassets/Reverse-Sear.jpg https://genuineideas.com/Assets/imageassets/Reverse-Sear.jpg Taking it up to 115 also gives you some wiggle room if you want a really intense sear, or if you want to baste (I usually throw a handful of thyme in the butter while I sear).
lhorie 5y ago
Reminds me of the Chinese technique for cooking cuts like pork belly: boiling in water first then pan searing. Works well with sauces that caramelize.
tptacek 5y ago
While we're (or, ok, I'm) nerding out on this stuff, let me put a word in for the idea that this is how you should cook a pork chop too. Like, exactly like a steak; maybe the only difference is that a pork chop likes a little big of sugar with the salt you apply an hour before cooking. Maybe take a chop to mid-rare instead of Pittsburgh blue rare, but otherwise: just like a steak. Kind of a revelation the first time you do it.
- cthalupa 5y ago
  Most definitely. For me one of the biggest revelations for cooking damn near everything was "of COURSE moisture ruins the ability to get a good sear, how did I not realize that before" So many things come packaged wet, or at least moist, and then I'd get a pan ripping hot... and still have a mediocre sear. It's something I learned for cooking steaks but has been pretty universally applicable.
partomniscient 5y ago
There are also probably 9,999 others like you. https://xkcd.com/1053/ https://xkcd.com/1053/
benhurmarcel 5y ago
That doesn’t seem very useful for day-to-day cooking. How often do you cook steaks that are so thick? A typical home meal will be more around half an inch.

AdmiralAsshat 5y ago

Having compared the methods in my own kitchen, I'm also coming around to the idea that the reverse sear is a better method than sous vide, because I seem to get a better crust on the steak (likely because the steak is dryer than what I can remove from the s-v'd steak with paper towels). But, I find this only holds true for really nice cuts like filet mignon. If I want to cook a cheaper steak like a NY strip, I think the sous vide method produces a much more tender piece of meat, probably because I can cook it longer without overcooking it.

bradleyjg 5y ago
Haven’t yet gone down the SV road myself. I intend to buy the equipment and start playing around some time this year.
tptacek 5y ago
I've done the same tests with ribeyes and strips and, in a triangle test, you can't tell the difference between a circulator cook to 54c and a toaster oven reverse-sear cook to 45c (both followed by a hard sear). I really can't see much reason to circulate steaks anymore; there isn't even really a convenience win to it.
- fisherjeff 5y ago
  Hard disagree on convenience: Timing hot steaks with hot sides is virtually effortless with a circulator
  - tptacek 5y ago
    Not really. You have the same problem either way, because you've gotta sear both steaks. If you're going to need to hold the cooked reverse-sear steaks, bring them up to 120-124 (your final target temp is 128-132) instead of 115. I get what you're saying (I've got like 4 different circulators here, I'm not against them!) but the reverse sear is forgiving and flexible enough that I don't really even get a convenience win from it. (For calibration: my modal steak is a Whole Foods ribeye or strip, unmodified except for being salted ahead of time).
    - fisherjeff 5y ago
      Likewise, I’m 100% not against a pure reverse sear. I just prefer to focus on getting the sides prepped and done, knowing that whenever they’re ready, the meat’s only a few minutes out.
    - JshWright 5y ago
      For me the convenience factor has to do with the fact that I can vacuum seal and freeze a bunch of meat at once, then it's just a matter of tossing the vacuum sealed bag in the circulator a few hours before dinner. Then I just need to pull it out, hit it with the torch, and we're ready to eat. I suspect the longer cooking time to account for the meant being frozen helps with fat rendering. We buy half a beef every six months or so (split with my parents, so I guess it's technically 5/7th's of a half? 5/14th's of a cow?). For a few hours on a weekend doing some prep/portioning, I can dramatically reduce the workload for several week's worth of meals. Obviously there's other tradeoffs involved and different personal circumstances to consider, but for me the circulator wins out from a convenience perspective.
  - gruez 5y ago
    I fail to see how a circulator is more convenient or effortless. For starters you need to prep a bag and a pot of water if you're using a circulator. On the other hand with reverse sear all you need to do is stick a thermometer in, throw it on a pan/rack and put it in an oven. After you're done with the circulator you have to wrangle with a wet bag full of beef liquid and dry off the steak (otherwise your sear will be impaired). With reverse sear you can take it directly from the oven to the pan. During the sear stage, the timing you need is minimal for both. You only need to get the pan as hot as you can get it, and sear both sides until it's charred to your liking.
gruez 5y ago
>probably because I can cook it longer without overcooking it. how long are we talking here? 1 hour? 2 hours?
weeksie 5y ago
A strip is not a "cheaper" steak than a filet. Filet mignon is a fine cut, it's low in flavor but very tender which means that it tastes better when it's extra rare. Well marbled cuts of steak are usually better at mid-rare b/c the fat melts a little. I do like sous vide for very thick steaks with some marbling—so a strip is a pretty decent one for the dip. However, I've found ribeyes come out spongey when you sous vide them and are better off being reverse seared. Edit: if you're shopping in the supermarket, filets will usually be more expensive. If you're buying prime dry aged from a butcher, it's a different story, mostly because filets aren't usually dry aged. Check Pat's steaks for reference: https://shop.lafrieda.com/collections/dry-aged-beef https://shop.lafrieda.com/collections/dry-aged-beef
- darkerside 5y ago
  I typically see strip steaks for way cheaper than filets per pound at the market (US). Since it's so tender, I've always felt filet are OK to cook a little more well, and you solve for the flavor with sauce, seasoning, or marinade.
  - tptacek 5y ago
    Strips and ribeyes are much more forgiving than filets because filets have very little intramuscular fat. Strips are ribeyes also taste much better than filets because filets have very little intramuscular fat. Don't buy filets. :)
- gruez 5y ago
  >A strip is not a "cheaper" steak than a filet. But objectively speaking a strip steak is cheaper. Based on my observations of supermarket sale prices, the ranking goes: fillet > ribeye > strip > others that I don't bother with (sirloin/round)
  - tptacek 5y ago
    You are missing out on some truly excellent steaks: the hanger is like a cross between the ribeye and the skirt; the skirt is no slouch either! and if you've got some Activa RM handy, you can make a triple-thickness skirt, which is incredibly good; the spider steak (compare to the "oyster" of a chicken leg) is maybe the world's greatest sandwich steak; the tri-tip, which takes a marinade far better than any of the expensive steaks, and which the circulator will make just as tender as a fillet; and the picanha, which is the single greatest grill steak --- I would trade 2 ribeyes for 1 picanha if I was planning to grill.
giraffe_lady 5y ago
I was a professional chef for many years before I got into coding and I very rarely use a sous vide at home. The practical advantages of it have a lot more to do with timing, prep dynamics, and consistency than they do with final quality. There are some things that it makes possible or easy that are otherwise nearly inaccessible to home cooks and that is cool if you want to play around with it. Or if I'm cooking 6 steaks for guests or whatever but that's not a problem I've been having recently. But otherwise I don't find too much value in it personally.
- foobarian 5y ago
  Not a chef but I also found sous vide to cause more problems than it solves for cooking steaks. The biggest problem I have with it is that the fatty marbling does not render to the extent it does on a grill, because I can't afford to sear it as long as on the grill to avoid overcooking it. So I end up with a nice brown sear only on the surface, but then as soon as you bite into it you're met with almost raw fat. It's gross :)
  - tptacek 5y ago
    There's a very simple fix for this problem, which is just to hold the steak for an hour or so to lower the temp (and give more breathing room for the sear) before you sear it off --- which also dries the exterior of the steak and improves the sear.
    - foobarian 5y ago
      That's an interesting idea, thanks. I can see continuing to SV for cuts of meat that really need it, e.g. a whole tenderloin. Otherwise I still find it more work for less result than a charcoal grill. Speaking of which it's annoying to reverse sear on a grill because covering it first for 10 or so minutes cools it down enough that the sear is not as nice as when it's done on the higher heat achieved without a cover.
- emmanuel_1234 5y ago
  Definitely agree with the "cooking 6 steaks for guests". This is my secret trick at barbecues: I pre-cook a bunch of steaks that I keep warn in an ice-chest (with no ice, obviously), then as guest comes and goes, I sear them, which takes a few minutes only. Every group of arriving guest gets to eat a nice perfectly cooked steak, straight out of the fire. My other secret trick is to sous-vide chicken wings, so I don't have to fear about contamination of my tools, people being like "is it cooked enough? It looks pink". After sous-viding, I leave them on a cold side of the barbecue until they turn golden brown: the meat is soft, moist and almost candied. It's fool proof as they'll never really have a chance to burn and they always come up perfect.
Xcelerate 5y ago
I agree with you, and I’m not entirely sure why, because I think it involves more than just the crust. It has something to do with the interior of the meat as well. I own a small Breville oven, and since it’s PID controlled, I set it at a very low temperature like 160 F and then put a separate probe in the meat to pull it at just the right temperature (takes a few hours). I end up with edge to edge evenness and a nice crust as well. It beats the Joule every time I’ve tried it. I will say that I haven’t found anything that beats sous vide for chicken and duck though.

tptacek 5y ago

100%. I've done just about everything you can do to a steak, and for the past year or so my bulletproof standard method has simply been "set toaster oven to 250, cook steak for 20 minutes until it's 110-115, then take it out and sear it". It's better than the circulator steaks.

gruez 5y ago
>set toaster oven to 250, cook steak for 20 minutes That seems really fast, at least compared to the time I get with a regular oven. Either you're using really thin steaks, or your toaster oven's temperature is way off.
- tptacek 5y ago
  I'm cooking to temp, not to time; I pull them when the Thermapen says the steak's near 115. But I set the timer on my toaster oven to 20 minutes (after preheating, starting immediately when the steaks go in) and watch out of the corner of my eye for the display to go blue when the timer expires, which is when I check the steak temp the first time. I guess every once in awhile I end up giving it another 5 minutes, but it's pretty reliable. Two things: 1. The toaster oven is probably more efficient than your regular oven (put an electronic grill thermometer in your oven and watch the temperature fluctuations; do the same with a toaster oven, compare). 2. I've usually got the convection thingy on in the toaster (I just forget to turn it off). It doesn't much matter either way, though: the point is, it goes in the oven and comes out when it reads ~115 when I stick it. :)
  - gruez 5y ago
    >It doesn't much matter either way, though: the point is, it goes in the oven and comes out when it reads ~115 when I stick it. :) But shouldn't the oven temperature matter? The hotter the oven is, the hotter the outside of the meat will get, even if you pull out the steak at 115 exactly. If you want the steak to be as even as possible, you want the oven temperature to be as low as possible.
    - 5y ago

abakker 5y ago

I do this in a smoker sometimes. Smoke to 100*, rest, and then sear on grill or in pan. Don’t use much smoke. Can be a really killer way to do ribeyes and porterhouse.

bobbygunderson 5y ago
Yep yep yep. And I’ll also echo don’t use much smoke - I went way overboard with some mesquite to see what it would be like, and it was fine but definitely detracted. A light smoke then a char is chef’s kiss though.
- abakker 5y ago
  What’s your favorite wood? I used peach recently and it was nice, but I’d be open to try anything.
- cthalupa 5y ago
  I do a decent amount of smoking (not steaks, too often, though sometimes) and I tend to mostly avoid mesquite, or use it very sparingly. It's STRONG. I'm not afraid to use a good amount of post oak or cherry when smoking anything, including steaks, though.

tzs 5y ago

That's what I do (but I got it from the first episode of "Good Eats Reloaded"), except that I go until the temperature near the center is the temperature I want for the final temperature rather than the 15℉ below that which is what that article recommends. I'm using a 200℉ oven (well, that is what it is set to...I don't know how accurate that is), and found it heats the steak gently enough that the center temperature doesn't really rise much after it is taken out. The searing is on the hottest my stovetop can make my pan, which is about 500℉. I do 45 seconds on each side. That doesn't seem to be long enough to have much effect other than near the surface.

tptacek 5y ago
Here's some graphs of temperature changes during sears (also bearing in mind that the steak keeps increasing in temperature for a couple minutes after you pull it from the oven). https://genuineideas.com/Assets/imageassets/Reverse-Sear.jpg https://genuineideas.com/Assets/imageassets/Reverse-Sear.jpg Taking it up to 115 also gives you some wiggle room if you want a really intense sear, or if you want to baste (I usually throw a handful of thyme in the butter while I sear).

lhorie 5y ago

Reminds me of the Chinese technique for cooking cuts like pork belly: boiling in water first then pan searing. Works well with sauces that caramelize.

tptacek 5y ago

While we're (or, ok, I'm) nerding out on this stuff, let me put a word in for the idea that this is how you should cook a pork chop too. Like, exactly like a steak; maybe the only difference is that a pork chop likes a little big of sugar with the salt you apply an hour before cooking. Maybe take a chop to mid-rare instead of Pittsburgh blue rare, but otherwise: just like a steak. Kind of a revelation the first time you do it.

cthalupa 5y ago
Most definitely. For me one of the biggest revelations for cooking damn near everything was "of COURSE moisture ruins the ability to get a good sear, how did I not realize that before" So many things come packaged wet, or at least moist, and then I'd get a pan ripping hot... and still have a mediocre sear. It's something I learned for cooking steaks but has been pretty universally applicable.

partomniscient 5y ago

There are also probably 9,999 others like you. https://xkcd.com/1053/ https://xkcd.com/1053/

benhurmarcel 5y ago

That doesn’t seem very useful for day-to-day cooking. How often do you cook steaks that are so thick? A typical home meal will be more around half an inch.