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Glad to see this was about working at FB / Meta rather than being a user. Just for personal interest. Newish dev doing my first attempt at a FAANG interview. W

by pkdpic 5y ago

Glad to see this was about working at FB / Meta rather than being a user. Just for personal interest. Newish dev doing my first attempt at a FAANG interview. Wondering if I should be trying for FaceBook as long as Im bothering to study. Had a very positive-feeling convo with a recruiter there ~6mo ago before "Meta". Sounds like it might be a negative thing to have on your resume now though? Any thoughts?

renewiltord 5y ago
I’ll hire at $400k cash comp for 2 yrs experience and I won’t skip you for Meta. The only problem is that, like most big tech companies, it has some people who are there as a retirement. Meta is better than Alphabet about that, though.
- hiq 5y ago
  > it has some people who are there as a retirement. In which way does it transpire during interviews / once they join your company?
- throwawaylinux 5y ago
  You hire people with two years experience out of college for $400k/yr package? Is this in SV? What kind of job, what experience is needed?
  - pkdpic 5y ago
    Yeah seriously hire me. Ive never heard of 400k for two years exp but Im into it. Are you talking about coding roles or management or what?
    - eclipxe 5y ago
      levels.fyi
  - Tempest1981 5y ago
    I read that as "if you're coming from a FAANG/MAGMA company, we'll compensate you extra for the RSUs you'll be giving up when leaving".
  - renewiltord 5y ago
    It's in SF by the Embarcadero. You will write financial trading code. I pay salary plus bonus plus other stuff. Experience: - You spent those two years becoming very skillful at some language where you can express invariants/constraints neatly, and know how to structure programs in something like Java, or modern C++ (OCaml, Scala, Rust, whatever, is fine) - You are the kind of person who spent those two years with very little time road-blocked, i.e. every time you got stuck you found a way out. - You have a conceptual understanding of low-latency Lots of people do find the comp attractive, so I find that leading with it hits poor outcomes, so sadly I won't post a job link, but you can either email me and I promise to respond or you can stick something in your profile and I will look tomorrow.
    - throwawaylinux 5y ago
      Thank you for the answer, much appreciated -- a lot of people throw out comments like yours but won't back them up. I'm probably not the right fit for the job, I'm happily a lowly kernel developer with 20 years experience on half the salary and not in SV/SF. But I do appreciate the answer and maybe your post leads to a mutually beneficial arrangement with someone here.
      - renewiltord 5y ago
        I once aspired to be a kernel dev. As an aside, I once spoke to an engineer at a previous gig and told him that we don't get as low-level as what he was used to (wrote kernel code) and he was affronted. Had to calm him down and tell him that I meant "close to the metal" not "inferior software". Didn't work out for other reasons but I was embarrassed.
        throwawaylinux 5y ago
        Sounds like he needed some thicker skin or awareness of the terms of art in his own field! I don't think you had anything to be embarrassed about, that's what my pun was related to. Although as another aside, I know some kernel devs who do very low level work for HFT. You're not in Chicago or NYC so maybe you're not in that game. Or at least you're happy to keep a healthy distance from the coalface.
- cebert 5y ago
  What planet / company do you work at?
kevinventullo 5y ago
Even if you have no interest in joining a company, an offer can be used as leverage when negotiating with a different company.
throwaway3137 5y ago
(throwaway account for the obvious reason) I've been at Meta for 3+ years. I'm also interviewing. I have somewhere between 4 and 8 offers right now (not a humblebrag, just the facts). Not a single interviewer (from junior engineers to directors and VPs of engineering) asked me anything remotely like "Why are you still at an awful company like Facebook?" The plural of anecdote is not "fact", but that's my experience: for engineers, it's still seen as a positive, or at worst, neutral.
- mercutio2 5y ago
  Well of course we won’t say that to your face! But it’s certainly a factor when I’m reviewing resumes.
  - code_biologist 5y ago
    I'll match your anecdote with mine. I'm an engineering leader at a small company that has worked at FAANG. I have personal mixed feelings about working at FB, but it's a very strong positive signal about someone's engineering ability (and comp expectations lol). Send any good coders you toss out because they worked at FB my way!!
    - zionic 5y ago
      I’ll match your anecdote with mine. I’ve been everything from CTO to lead engineer. I’ve made sure we always pay well above average for every role because I’d rather have one exceptional engineer than 10 regular ones. FAANG on your resume is an instant disqualification.
      - novok 5y ago
        CTO and lead engineer of what size companies? How big was the tree of reports under you? What is the band of your total compensation recently? $100-200k? $500-1000k? Honestly sounds like a bit of cope, especially if you've tried hiring in the past 10 years.
debt 5y ago
Yes absolutely go work at Meta. The person in the post had worked there for ten years; they’re likely a millionaire. It’s very challenging, but you should definitely get in and try it yourself. Move to the Bay if you haven’t done so yet, it will keep your motivation up.
- pkdpic 5y ago
  It does seem like a challenge. And even though I only know a couple people there they have nothing but good things to say.
- sorry_outta_gas 5y ago
  I guess the counterpoint is, if they were any good they would have made the money elsewhere
- cwalv 5y ago
  > they’re likely a millionaire. Almost certainly; if not, it's not because they didn't make enough to be one. Of course, "past performance is no guarantee of future returns."
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
iamstupidsimple 5y ago
Unpopular opinion: Facebook is widely disliked by the loudest voices in the room (for good reason), but the vast majority of people still just treat it like a fancy forum. It's not going to stain your CV. Plus, Facebook-the-app is far more disliked than Meta-the-company especially now that's a formal distinction. I imagine it's still relatively cool to work on Instagram, for example.
- pkdpic 5y ago
  Thats an interesting distinction. I've heard nothing about working at IG specifically. Wonder how different it is.
- solarkraft 5y ago
  > Facebook-the-app is far more disliked than Meta-the-company My impression is the opposite, not just in my technical circles. Facebook is boring. Meta is (arguably) malicious.
- zionic 5y ago
  > It's not going to stain your CV. Not with that attitude. I refuse to hire anyone with FAANG on their resume and you can all do it too. Most of you on here are all woo woo Linux this and FSF that, but you won’t put your money where your mouth is. I won’t hire you if you work for these assholes, and I’d love for more of you to join me. To the rest of you: Sure, take that $300k total comp bro. Good luck working outside SV. Better be worth it.
  - hungryhobo 5y ago
    Dude you just sound salty at this point...
    - zionic 5y ago
      What do I have to be salty about? I’m honestly a very happy person. I’ve found some incredible people that fulfill me, and that’s freed me. I used to be afraid of what people would think if I said what I felt. Now I can say what I believe with little consequence and to be honest? Not going back.
yongjik 5y ago
> Sounds like it might be a negative thing to have on your resume now though? Among all your potential future interviewers, the percentage of those who would judge you negatively for a Facebook work experience is vanishingly small - be mindful of the HN echo chamber. Besides, you probably don't want to work in those places anyway. (Not that it's necessarily bad to hate Facebook, but if your manager can't separate their political belief from reviewing candidates, would you want to work there?)
- jumelles 5y ago
  On the other hand, being willing to work for a company like Facebook says something about a worker.
- pkdpic 5y ago
  Thanks for the sincere response! :)
ptero 5y ago
I think while you can hit an interviewer with a strong dislike of the FB and everything it means, including the people who work there, it is probably a rare thing. I guess a slightly more likely case is for your resume to get rejected as "we cannot match their FAANG salary, no point in an interview", but I would not worry about it too much.
- pkdpic 5y ago
  Thats a good point. I've definitely heard of that but haven't thought about it in a while. You're right of course, its nothing to worry about. I'd be lucky to get to that point.
kbrackbill 5y ago
If you can stomach it, you should absolutely do it. Having one of the tech giants on your resume has definitely been a strong positive in my experience and you can't beat the comp.
- zionic 5y ago
  Counterpoint: if you can avoid it keep FAANG off your resume. I’ve always made sure to hit top-tier pay and a FAANG entry on your CV is an instant disqualification.
  - jruroc 5y ago
    The overwhelming majority of companies hiring SWE's do not think this way.
    - zionic 5y ago
      Sure, and the overwhelming majority of companies don’t grow like mine do. Or sell for what I’ve exited for. Being mediocre is easy.
    - cwalv 5y ago
      And they won't mention the company they work for, so even if you want to go for the one in existence that does you'll never find it. Or maybe there is no such company, and we're just being trolled.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - twy_new_fb_hire 5y ago
    Would you mind sharing what top-tier means?
    - sockgrant 5y ago
      Spoiler: it’s not top tier.
zionic 5y ago
> Newish dev doing my first attempt at a FAANG interview. My thoughts? Screw ‘em. They aren’t worth your skill set. I’m not joking, fuck these people. The paycheck they give you won’t make you happy, what will however is not working for these scumbags.
- throwawaylinux 5y ago
  I know a bunch of highly skilled people who would never have trouble finding work at other companies who say they love working at Facebook. I also know a lot of people who use it and think it's a great tool for keeping in touch and communicating with friends and family and the social, hobby, interest and volunteer groups they're in. I don't personally like the company or Zuck or some of the things it does very much, but they aren't the devil. I could say the same about probably most corporations. Where do you work that's pure as the driven snow?
  - shopkins 5y ago
    "Most corporations" don't do global surveillance on the scale Facebook does. It's that simple. It's not about 100% purity. Just not doing this one little, tiny, fundamental-to-their-entire-business thing.
    - ncmncm 5y ago
      I know a bunch of people who work at FB. They explain that Zuck would love to be as evil as Google or Microsoft, but is just nowhere near their league. Putin would love to be as evil as the US or even China, but hasn't got the scratch. Russia has its billionaire oligarchs, but the US has probably a hundred times as many. China murders more innocents every day than Putin does rabble rousers in a year. Zuck isn't Putin. He isn't Bill Gates, or Steve Jobs. He isn't even Bolsanaro, or Duterte. He would like to be.
    - throwawaylinux 5y ago
      > "Most corporations" don't do global surveillance on the scale Facebook does. It's that simple. It's never that simple. What corporations are okay to work for, in this unidimensional worldview? Exxon Mobil? Philip Morris? Pfizer? Dupont? Boeing? Nestle? BHP? Fox News? Volkswagen? Nike? HSBC? Is it okay if your employer's owners or executives have appeared in the panama papers? Are or have been on the boards of FAANG companies or own stock in those companies? Are you allowed to buy Google or Apple products and use their services? What about companies that collect and trade on the personal information and habits they collect about their customers, just not on the scale of Facebook or Google? Are they okay? Even if they would like to be able to sell more personal information but don't presently have the means to would that be okay? So where do you work? What products and services do you buy?
throwawaylinux 5y ago
No, it looks good on your resume. The type of clown who would get upset at you working for Facebook is not someone you want to work for anyway so consider that another plus. Some people get extremely sanctimonious about the latest thing their politics or corporate "news" media or the current popular trend on twitter gets them riled up about. Of course they will never face up to the fact that the companies they work for and buy from are neck deep in politics, consumerism, advertising, influencing, the war industry, corruption, greed, etc., too. These people aren't nearly so brave or numerous in the real world as they would have you believe though. If you personally feel okay working for a company then I wouldn't bother worrying about the opinion of hypocrites.
- rizkeyz 5y ago
  The clowns you are referring to are people with brains that look at more than just leetcode problems.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- Wiseacre 5y ago
  If they do face up to the fact, then that means they are not necessarily clowns. Some orgs do have ethical standards.
  - throwawaylinux 5y ago
    I'm talking about the vast majority who are in fact hypocrites and are very happy to rile up hatred and anger towards others while never reflecting on their own behavior and situations. I do know one or two people who think and care very deeply about this stuff and they (to some degree) put their money where their mouth is by attempting to avoid and not support these things they disagree with. They are typically the last to point their finger at others.
  - dnissley 5y ago
    The problem is that more and more orgs have "ethical standards" downloaded direct from the nytimes editorial section.
vanusa 5y ago
Sounds like it might be a negative thing to have on your resume now though? Rather than focusing on how an association with FB would be viewed on your resume -- you may want to ask yourself whether that company lives up to your own moral standards, and whether (just to yourself) you would feel proud of yourself for working there. Many people have come to the conclusion that it is an extremely cynical and unethical company: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook#Criticisms_and_controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook#Criticisms_and_contro... And that even aside from the specific episodes of abusive behavior, that its core product is basically toxic: https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/10/05/1036519/facebook-whistleblower-frances-haugen-algorithms/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/10/05/1036519/facebook... Meanwhile, some of the founder's behavior in his early adult years can best be described as nakedly sociopathic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Zuckerberg#Early_years https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Zuckerberg#Early_years Whether any of this matters to you is ... up to you. But it is definitely a question you may want to investigate before you start working there -- rather than after you've signed the dotted line. Being as asking your recruiter or your interviewers these questions -- isn't likely to get you very far.
- ipaddr 5y ago
  So someone shouldn't take a job at one of the biggest companies because 16 years ago the founder acted like a sociopathic in some people's opinion? I can't see that affecting someone's employment. Your points are why someone shouldn't vote for Mark for president not why someone shouldn't take a job.
  - vanusa 5y ago
    The founder's destructive behavior wasn't the only factor mentioned - in fact it was the least of all factors mentioned. ... acted like a sociopathic in some people's opinion? What's with the attempt at dissimulation here? The issue is what the guy did. Not "some people's opinion" of what he did. I can't see that affecting someone's employment. I can't see how the founder's ethical standards (expressed not just through what they did 16 year ago, but in the present day) wouldn't affect your experience working at their company. The fish rots from the head, as the saying goes.
rr808 5y ago
I think it is unfashionable right now, but doesn't really deserve it. I think twitter is more toxic and reddit has bigger echo chambers. Perhaps in a few years everyone will settle down a bit.
- pkdpic 5y ago
  Thats a refreshing perspective to see in this thread. Thanks for the input :)
kodah 5y ago
I don't know how informative my opinion is, but I'll do my best to lay it out. Some background: I'm quite pro-privacy. I go to great extents to marginalize cloud services in my life. I pay for services and am, by default, skeptical of free services. I consider this core to my ethos as a person. I was raised in a decently religious household, but went to a religious school, every day, for over a decade - I'm not a fan of "morals". I'm also a senior engineer who does most of our hiring filtering for a fairly large firm. I will interview and hire Facebookers, Googlers, Amazonians etc. They're skilled, usually in singular domains, and passionate people - thus useful. Do I agree with their ethical compasses or excuses they've made for such work as a person? Absolutely not. However, their life is not my life, and I'm sure there's judgements they could equally pass on to me about my life and experiences if I were so brazen to (publicly) pass my judgement on to them. There's some inevitable questions that come with my view: How do you trust them given the orientation of their ethical compass? Simple. My company (and team!) has our own ethical frameworks and principles. If they don't abide by them my judgement isn't needed - the company will terminate them. How do you listen to talk about ethics or morals from them? I don't. The great thing about ethical frameworks is they're usually set by people far above me who have a much higher view of the landscape than I do. Morals are a cathartic replacement for ethical frameworks when someone needs to feel good about themselves; thus they're pretty irrelevant when ethical frameworks are abound.
davedx 5y ago
I do quite a lot of screening/hiring. I’m personally very critical of Meta the company but have no issues hiring people who’ve worked there. The malaise in Meta is obviously a product of its top leadership not the engineering people
- SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
  I would probably hesitate if someone was in a position of leadership at Meta in the past few years, had been leadership for a long time, or did their formative engineering years at Meta. I’d want to question to ensure they’ll actually push back against unethical suggestions by product people if they suggest things without knowing that those features might rely on something unethical like scraping personal data.
  - throwaway1269 5y ago
    From my FAANG experience they are strict policies for dealing with user data and you actually have to think about such things and get approvals.
TrevorAustin 5y ago
I'm a hiring manager and while I despise Facebook/Meta (https://twitter.com/search?q=%40trevaustin%20facebook&src=typed_query https://twitter.com/search?q=%40trevaustin%20facebook&src=ty...), there's no denying that it's a positive qualification on a resume. It's not what you want to do with your life, but I've had jobs at suspect places while I was getting established (Palantir) and lots and lots of others have too. It's better than having worked somewhere people haven't heard of (ie above replacement value) and much better than having worked somewhere with a reputation for doing poor technical work.
whatever_dude 5y ago
Not a negative thing at all despite the perception du jour in the media.
DitheringIdiot 5y ago
I’m not in a position to hire anyone, but I would immediately dismiss anyone who continued to work at facebook after the genocide in Myanmar. It shows either a lack of morals, massive ignorance, or both.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

by pkdpic 5y ago

renewiltord 5y ago

I’ll hire at $400k cash comp for 2 yrs experience and I won’t skip you for Meta. The only problem is that, like most big tech companies, it has some people who are there as a retirement. Meta is better than Alphabet about that, though.

hiq 5y ago
> it has some people who are there as a retirement. In which way does it transpire during interviews / once they join your company?
throwawaylinux 5y ago
You hire people with two years experience out of college for $400k/yr package? Is this in SV? What kind of job, what experience is needed?
- pkdpic 5y ago
  Yeah seriously hire me. Ive never heard of 400k for two years exp but Im into it. Are you talking about coding roles or management or what?
  - eclipxe 5y ago
    levels.fyi
- Tempest1981 5y ago
  I read that as "if you're coming from a FAANG/MAGMA company, we'll compensate you extra for the RSUs you'll be giving up when leaving".
- renewiltord 5y ago
  It's in SF by the Embarcadero. You will write financial trading code. I pay salary plus bonus plus other stuff. Experience: - You spent those two years becoming very skillful at some language where you can express invariants/constraints neatly, and know how to structure programs in something like Java, or modern C++ (OCaml, Scala, Rust, whatever, is fine) - You are the kind of person who spent those two years with very little time road-blocked, i.e. every time you got stuck you found a way out. - You have a conceptual understanding of low-latency Lots of people do find the comp attractive, so I find that leading with it hits poor outcomes, so sadly I won't post a job link, but you can either email me and I promise to respond or you can stick something in your profile and I will look tomorrow.
  - throwawaylinux 5y ago
    Thank you for the answer, much appreciated -- a lot of people throw out comments like yours but won't back them up. I'm probably not the right fit for the job, I'm happily a lowly kernel developer with 20 years experience on half the salary and not in SV/SF. But I do appreciate the answer and maybe your post leads to a mutually beneficial arrangement with someone here.
    - renewiltord 5y ago
      I once aspired to be a kernel dev. As an aside, I once spoke to an engineer at a previous gig and told him that we don't get as low-level as what he was used to (wrote kernel code) and he was affronted. Had to calm him down and tell him that I meant "close to the metal" not "inferior software". Didn't work out for other reasons but I was embarrassed.
      - throwawaylinux 5y ago
        Sounds like he needed some thicker skin or awareness of the terms of art in his own field! I don't think you had anything to be embarrassed about, that's what my pun was related to. Although as another aside, I know some kernel devs who do very low level work for HFT. You're not in Chicago or NYC so maybe you're not in that game. Or at least you're happy to keep a healthy distance from the coalface.
cebert 5y ago
What planet / company do you work at?

kevinventullo 5y ago

Even if you have no interest in joining a company, an offer can be used as leverage when negotiating with a different company.

throwaway3137 5y ago

(throwaway account for the obvious reason) I've been at Meta for 3+ years. I'm also interviewing. I have somewhere between 4 and 8 offers right now (not a humblebrag, just the facts). Not a single interviewer (from junior engineers to directors and VPs of engineering) asked me anything remotely like "Why are you still at an awful company like Facebook?" The plural of anecdote is not "fact", but that's my experience: for engineers, it's still seen as a positive, or at worst, neutral.

mercutio2 5y ago
Well of course we won’t say that to your face! But it’s certainly a factor when I’m reviewing resumes.
- code_biologist 5y ago
  I'll match your anecdote with mine. I'm an engineering leader at a small company that has worked at FAANG. I have personal mixed feelings about working at FB, but it's a very strong positive signal about someone's engineering ability (and comp expectations lol). Send any good coders you toss out because they worked at FB my way!!
  - zionic 5y ago
    I’ll match your anecdote with mine. I’ve been everything from CTO to lead engineer. I’ve made sure we always pay well above average for every role because I’d rather have one exceptional engineer than 10 regular ones. FAANG on your resume is an instant disqualification.
    - novok 5y ago
      CTO and lead engineer of what size companies? How big was the tree of reports under you? What is the band of your total compensation recently? $100-200k? $500-1000k? Honestly sounds like a bit of cope, especially if you've tried hiring in the past 10 years.

debt 5y ago

Yes absolutely go work at Meta. The person in the post had worked there for ten years; they’re likely a millionaire. It’s very challenging, but you should definitely get in and try it yourself. Move to the Bay if you haven’t done so yet, it will keep your motivation up.

pkdpic 5y ago
It does seem like a challenge. And even though I only know a couple people there they have nothing but good things to say.
sorry_outta_gas 5y ago
I guess the counterpoint is, if they were any good they would have made the money elsewhere
cwalv 5y ago
> they’re likely a millionaire. Almost certainly; if not, it's not because they didn't make enough to be one. Of course, "past performance is no guarantee of future returns."

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

iamstupidsimple 5y ago

Unpopular opinion: Facebook is widely disliked by the loudest voices in the room (for good reason), but the vast majority of people still just treat it like a fancy forum. It's not going to stain your CV. Plus, Facebook-the-app is far more disliked than Meta-the-company especially now that's a formal distinction. I imagine it's still relatively cool to work on Instagram, for example.

pkdpic 5y ago
Thats an interesting distinction. I've heard nothing about working at IG specifically. Wonder how different it is.
solarkraft 5y ago
> Facebook-the-app is far more disliked than Meta-the-company My impression is the opposite, not just in my technical circles. Facebook is boring. Meta is (arguably) malicious.
zionic 5y ago
> It's not going to stain your CV. Not with that attitude. I refuse to hire anyone with FAANG on their resume and you can all do it too. Most of you on here are all woo woo Linux this and FSF that, but you won’t put your money where your mouth is. I won’t hire you if you work for these assholes, and I’d love for more of you to join me. To the rest of you: Sure, take that $300k total comp bro. Good luck working outside SV. Better be worth it.
- hungryhobo 5y ago
  Dude you just sound salty at this point...
  - zionic 5y ago
    What do I have to be salty about? I’m honestly a very happy person. I’ve found some incredible people that fulfill me, and that’s freed me. I used to be afraid of what people would think if I said what I felt. Now I can say what I believe with little consequence and to be honest? Not going back.

yongjik 5y ago

> Sounds like it might be a negative thing to have on your resume now though? Among all your potential future interviewers, the percentage of those who would judge you negatively for a Facebook work experience is vanishingly small - be mindful of the HN echo chamber. Besides, you probably don't want to work in those places anyway. (Not that it's necessarily bad to hate Facebook, but if your manager can't separate their political belief from reviewing candidates, would you want to work there?)

jumelles 5y ago
On the other hand, being willing to work for a company like Facebook says something about a worker.
pkdpic 5y ago
Thanks for the sincere response! :)

ptero 5y ago

I think while you can hit an interviewer with a strong dislike of the FB and everything it means, including the people who work there, it is probably a rare thing. I guess a slightly more likely case is for your resume to get rejected as "we cannot match their FAANG salary, no point in an interview", but I would not worry about it too much.

pkdpic 5y ago
Thats a good point. I've definitely heard of that but haven't thought about it in a while. You're right of course, its nothing to worry about. I'd be lucky to get to that point.

kbrackbill 5y ago

If you can stomach it, you should absolutely do it. Having one of the tech giants on your resume has definitely been a strong positive in my experience and you can't beat the comp.

zionic 5y ago
Counterpoint: if you can avoid it keep FAANG off your resume. I’ve always made sure to hit top-tier pay and a FAANG entry on your CV is an instant disqualification.
- jruroc 5y ago
  The overwhelming majority of companies hiring SWE's do not think this way.
  - zionic 5y ago
    Sure, and the overwhelming majority of companies don’t grow like mine do. Or sell for what I’ve exited for. Being mediocre is easy.
  - cwalv 5y ago
    And they won't mention the company they work for, so even if you want to go for the one in existence that does you'll never find it. Or maybe there is no such company, and we're just being trolled.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- twy_new_fb_hire 5y ago
  Would you mind sharing what top-tier means?
  - sockgrant 5y ago
    Spoiler: it’s not top tier.

zionic 5y ago

> Newish dev doing my first attempt at a FAANG interview. My thoughts? Screw ‘em. They aren’t worth your skill set. I’m not joking, fuck these people. The paycheck they give you won’t make you happy, what will however is not working for these scumbags.

throwawaylinux 5y ago
I know a bunch of highly skilled people who would never have trouble finding work at other companies who say they love working at Facebook. I also know a lot of people who use it and think it's a great tool for keeping in touch and communicating with friends and family and the social, hobby, interest and volunteer groups they're in. I don't personally like the company or Zuck or some of the things it does very much, but they aren't the devil. I could say the same about probably most corporations. Where do you work that's pure as the driven snow?
- shopkins 5y ago
  "Most corporations" don't do global surveillance on the scale Facebook does. It's that simple. It's not about 100% purity. Just not doing this one little, tiny, fundamental-to-their-entire-business thing.
  - ncmncm 5y ago
    I know a bunch of people who work at FB. They explain that Zuck would love to be as evil as Google or Microsoft, but is just nowhere near their league. Putin would love to be as evil as the US or even China, but hasn't got the scratch. Russia has its billionaire oligarchs, but the US has probably a hundred times as many. China murders more innocents every day than Putin does rabble rousers in a year. Zuck isn't Putin. He isn't Bill Gates, or Steve Jobs. He isn't even Bolsanaro, or Duterte. He would like to be.
  - throwawaylinux 5y ago
    > "Most corporations" don't do global surveillance on the scale Facebook does. It's that simple. It's never that simple. What corporations are okay to work for, in this unidimensional worldview? Exxon Mobil? Philip Morris? Pfizer? Dupont? Boeing? Nestle? BHP? Fox News? Volkswagen? Nike? HSBC? Is it okay if your employer's owners or executives have appeared in the panama papers? Are or have been on the boards of FAANG companies or own stock in those companies? Are you allowed to buy Google or Apple products and use their services? What about companies that collect and trade on the personal information and habits they collect about their customers, just not on the scale of Facebook or Google? Are they okay? Even if they would like to be able to sell more personal information but don't presently have the means to would that be okay? So where do you work? What products and services do you buy?

throwawaylinux 5y ago

No, it looks good on your resume. The type of clown who would get upset at you working for Facebook is not someone you want to work for anyway so consider that another plus. Some people get extremely sanctimonious about the latest thing their politics or corporate "news" media or the current popular trend on twitter gets them riled up about. Of course they will never face up to the fact that the companies they work for and buy from are neck deep in politics, consumerism, advertising, influencing, the war industry, corruption, greed, etc., too. These people aren't nearly so brave or numerous in the real world as they would have you believe though. If you personally feel okay working for a company then I wouldn't bother worrying about the opinion of hypocrites.

rizkeyz 5y ago
The clowns you are referring to are people with brains that look at more than just leetcode problems.
- deleted 5y ago
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Wiseacre 5y ago
If they do face up to the fact, then that means they are not necessarily clowns. Some orgs do have ethical standards.
- throwawaylinux 5y ago
  I'm talking about the vast majority who are in fact hypocrites and are very happy to rile up hatred and anger towards others while never reflecting on their own behavior and situations. I do know one or two people who think and care very deeply about this stuff and they (to some degree) put their money where their mouth is by attempting to avoid and not support these things they disagree with. They are typically the last to point their finger at others.
- dnissley 5y ago
  The problem is that more and more orgs have "ethical standards" downloaded direct from the nytimes editorial section.

vanusa 5y ago

Sounds like it might be a negative thing to have on your resume now though? Rather than focusing on how an association with FB would be viewed on your resume -- you may want to ask yourself whether that company lives up to your own moral standards, and whether (just to yourself) you would feel proud of yourself for working there. Many people have come to the conclusion that it is an extremely cynical and unethical company: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook#Criticisms_and_controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook#Criticisms_and_contro... And that even aside from the specific episodes of abusive behavior, that its core product is basically toxic: https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/10/05/1036519/facebook-whistleblower-frances-haugen-algorithms/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/10/05/1036519/facebook... Meanwhile, some of the founder's behavior in his early adult years can best be described as nakedly sociopathic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Zuckerberg#Early_years https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Zuckerberg#Early_years Whether any of this matters to you is ... up to you. But it is definitely a question you may want to investigate before you start working there -- rather than after you've signed the dotted line. Being as asking your recruiter or your interviewers these questions -- isn't likely to get you very far.

ipaddr 5y ago
So someone shouldn't take a job at one of the biggest companies because 16 years ago the founder acted like a sociopathic in some people's opinion? I can't see that affecting someone's employment. Your points are why someone shouldn't vote for Mark for president not why someone shouldn't take a job.
- vanusa 5y ago
  The founder's destructive behavior wasn't the only factor mentioned - in fact it was the least of all factors mentioned. ... acted like a sociopathic in some people's opinion? What's with the attempt at dissimulation here? The issue is what the guy did. Not "some people's opinion" of what he did. I can't see that affecting someone's employment. I can't see how the founder's ethical standards (expressed not just through what they did 16 year ago, but in the present day) wouldn't affect your experience working at their company. The fish rots from the head, as the saying goes.

rr808 5y ago

I think it is unfashionable right now, but doesn't really deserve it. I think twitter is more toxic and reddit has bigger echo chambers. Perhaps in a few years everyone will settle down a bit.

pkdpic 5y ago
Thats a refreshing perspective to see in this thread. Thanks for the input :)

kodah 5y ago

I don't know how informative my opinion is, but I'll do my best to lay it out. Some background: I'm quite pro-privacy. I go to great extents to marginalize cloud services in my life. I pay for services and am, by default, skeptical of free services. I consider this core to my ethos as a person. I was raised in a decently religious household, but went to a religious school, every day, for over a decade - I'm not a fan of "morals". I'm also a senior engineer who does most of our hiring filtering for a fairly large firm. I will interview and hire Facebookers, Googlers, Amazonians etc. They're skilled, usually in singular domains, and passionate people - thus useful. Do I agree with their ethical compasses or excuses they've made for such work as a person? Absolutely not. However, their life is not my life, and I'm sure there's judgements they could equally pass on to me about my life and experiences if I were so brazen to (publicly) pass my judgement on to them. There's some inevitable questions that come with my view: How do you trust them given the orientation of their ethical compass? Simple. My company (and team!) has our own ethical frameworks and principles. If they don't abide by them my judgement isn't needed - the company will terminate them. How do you listen to talk about ethics or morals from them? I don't. The great thing about ethical frameworks is they're usually set by people far above me who have a much higher view of the landscape than I do. Morals are a cathartic replacement for ethical frameworks when someone needs to feel good about themselves; thus they're pretty irrelevant when ethical frameworks are abound.

davedx 5y ago

I do quite a lot of screening/hiring. I’m personally very critical of Meta the company but have no issues hiring people who’ve worked there. The malaise in Meta is obviously a product of its top leadership not the engineering people

SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
I would probably hesitate if someone was in a position of leadership at Meta in the past few years, had been leadership for a long time, or did their formative engineering years at Meta. I’d want to question to ensure they’ll actually push back against unethical suggestions by product people if they suggest things without knowing that those features might rely on something unethical like scraping personal data.
- throwaway1269 5y ago
  From my FAANG experience they are strict policies for dealing with user data and you actually have to think about such things and get approvals.

TrevorAustin 5y ago

I'm a hiring manager and while I despise Facebook/Meta (https://twitter.com/search?q=%40trevaustin%20facebook&src=typed_query https://twitter.com/search?q=%40trevaustin%20facebook&src=ty...), there's no denying that it's a positive qualification on a resume. It's not what you want to do with your life, but I've had jobs at suspect places while I was getting established (Palantir) and lots and lots of others have too. It's better than having worked somewhere people haven't heard of (ie above replacement value) and much better than having worked somewhere with a reputation for doing poor technical work.

whatever_dude 5y ago

Not a negative thing at all despite the perception du jour in the media.

DitheringIdiot 5y ago

I’m not in a position to hire anyone, but I would immediately dismiss anyone who continued to work at facebook after the genocide in Myanmar. It shows either a lack of morals, massive ignorance, or both.

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