11 ms·
Extremist content on Reddit, Discord worrying trend for young adults in India
- cybarDOTlive 5y ago[flagged]
- eynsham 5y agoThis seems to generalise just as much as you accuse ‘people who lash out at right wing thinking’ of doing. There are plenty of people who dislike right wing ideas and comprehend that other people make different value judgements. And it’s far from clear that precisely all of them ‘have no fucking clue’—or even what that means: is this some balance fallacy nonsense?
- cybarDOTlive 5y agoWhat?
- worthless-trash 5y agoThere isn't any point telling this poster he's wrong, you'll just alienate him further.
- kevin_b_er 5y agoSo allow open lies and open hate?
- robbedpeter 5y agoYeah. Otherwise, who decides? Nobody is qualified to define allowable speech and thinking. Exceptions to any attempt at sets of "allowable speech" rules are trivially produced. Concepts like hate and lies are vague and nebulous. The best you can do to prevent actual harm in the real world is allow unfettered speech and discussion. Speech is thinking. Non-consensual thought control is evil. Consensual speech and discussion comprises culture - if you have a problem with what other people think and say, the ethical, moral mechanism to rectify that problem is called conversation. People are always going to have different ideas than you. Sometimes those ideas will be repugnant to you. It is more repugnant to decide that your own thoughts are the only ones allowed. You don't get to decide what people think and say. Other people don't get to decide that for you.
- stjohnswarts 5y agoReddit/Discord are not “open opinion” platforms. They are businesses. If they don't like what you're saying then they should kick you off, especially when advocating for violence and spreading fascism. You are free to start your own business and proceed to pick up where the conversation left off on your own platform, at least until the government comes knocking and asking about why you are supporting violence and sedition. That's the beauty of the free market.
- echelon 5y ago> Reddit/Discord are not “open opinion” platforms. They are businesses. Then we should go back to protocols and open hardware and stop making corporations the new public forum. Your opinions are safe today, but tomorrow they may not be.
- vba616 5y ago>Then we should go back to protocols and open hardware Sorry, I'm out of the loop. What happened to HTTP(S) and x86?
- tigerInATurvy 5y agoIn India, there have been pages created listing Muslim girls and women for sale. Using photos and real names. And the men describe the various ways they want to use their "property" once they buy them. If you were a Muslim in India, facing fears of state-encouraged real life violence, what sort of conversation would you like to have with these people? Are you going to look at a page like that and think: "I'm so thankful for the culture being created here." What you say works great in a vacuum. But unfettered hate speech leads to bad places. Just ask the German Jews. Ask a Tutsi how they felt about the hateful radio shows before the genocide started. Imagine what it was like to be a black person in the US facing lynching and pogroms over the misinformation being widely spread. But, hey, I guess just "conversation" would have solved all of those issues. Because those screaming their hateful messages are just misunderstood people who can be easily reasoned with. And who can call it hate to begin with? After all, calling a group subhuman, and wishing for their daughters to be raped, is just a cultural development no one should interfere with.
- cebert 5y agoAs much as I don’t like it, I think this is the best idea. This way ideas can be discussed and debated and light can be shed in areas otherwise hidden.
- phs318u 5y agoThis naively ignores the empirical fact that (a) many people seem to be immune to light, and (b) most people debating believe light to be what's shining out of their debate-hole (rather than an emergent property arising from the debate).
- confidantlake 5y ago
- zugi 5y agoOf course! Just a few years ago people called that "free speech". Now the enemies of free speech are trying to win the terminology war by convincing people that stopping "hate" and "lies" is more important than protecting the concept of open and free exchange of ideas.
- hgfshfg123 5y ago[flagged]
- geofft 5y agoIf these ideologies are both extreme and irreconcilable, why is it my ideology that has to shut itself up and let their ideology flourish? If our ideas are outlandish to each other, what is the goal of conversation in the public spaces, unless one side is willing to give up their ideology? If we look at each other in disgust, why is my disgust invalid?
- antics9 5y agoI belive the point they were trying to make is that noone needs to give up their ideology. Keep it but hang out in public spaces where other or opposing ideologies are present. Even if someone does not want to change their position, they can still learn and understand why someone has an opposing or different one. There are always spaces in which nonviolent or noncoercive interaction can exist.
- JetAlone 5y agoMost people think they know they understand by now; the other side is perilously silly at best, or prefers they were dead in the worst case. And they're right so often that this heuristic is too useful not to act on. I don't blame anyone for banning or flaming anyone anymore, given that. And I admire anyone who can still have that unevenly prized nonviolent noncoercive conversation. Especially if it can actually be meaningful and not just a tired re-treading .
- stjohnswarts 5y agoWhat makes you think reddit and discord have to host your ideology if they don't agree with it?
- geofft 5y agoNothing. But my ideology is mainstream, and it is incompatible with the other one. The other ideology can have Voat. Why should they also have Reddit?
- Isamu 5y agoSo what is right wing discourse in India? How would I distinguish it? Not to be disrespectful, I just would like to know since I have such a large number of Indian friends.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- tablespoon 5y ago> So what is right wing discourse in India? How would I distinguish it? Not to be disrespectful, I just would like to know since I have such a large number of Indian friends. I'm not very familiar with it, but I understand a big component is "Hindu nationalism," which seeks to turn India into an exclusively Hindu nation. That's resulted resulted in attacks and official harassment against minority Muslims and Christians. A couple weeks ago the NY Times had an article on it: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/22/world/asia/india-christians-attacked.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/22/world/asia/india-christia...
- bruceb 5y agoThere are plenty of Indians who will also say the NY Times loves to publish exaggerated and negative articles about India.
- vba616 5y agoGoogling "site:.in hindutva" produces some interesting articles about the relationship between Hindutva and Hinduism. It seems to be of much debate. Rahul Gandhi made some controversial comments about Hindutva and BJP last year, I believe.
- tablespoon 5y ago> There are plenty of Indians who will also say the NY Times loves to publish exaggerated and negative articles about India. I'm sure there are, but that likely-true fact doesn't shed any light on anything. For instance, Trumpers say similar things, simply because they're hostile to anything that portrays Trump in a negative light. They attack the media in order to hide the truth. Given how attacks against relatively unbiased media are now part of the standard propaganda playbook, I don't put much stock in them unless they're very convincing. "People say" doesn't pass that threshold.
- supperburg 5y agoWhen I see “worrying” or “problematic” in an article headline I know I can safely ignore it
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- worthless-trash 5y ago"Problematic" is the 2019-2020 catchphrase which roughly translates to 'Things that dont actually matter, but we want the pageviews'.
- reddog 5y agoI've always thought of it as meaning "Something that makes me feel unconfortable but I can't articulate why".
- Miner49er 5y agoReddit will ban it as soon as they think it'll affect advertising in a negative way.
- ipunchghosts 5y agoReddit is the worst for censorship.
- CommanderData 5y agoIn this case I don't mind it. I've taken a brief look at their subreddit and it deserves no place somewhere so mainstream. Its toxic and full of hate speach against Christians and Buddhists.
- xupybd 5y agoIs it just me or does a subreddit with only 90k members seem too small to matter? Especially amongst India. Their population is huge, you would need a much larger reach to influence culture.
- grapehut 5y agoI think the far more worrying trend is trying to silence anyone with different political ideologies. Like their handpicked example of a user discussing "'destroý' Islam". Note, they added the quotes around destroy. But the actual content is reasonably thoughtful discussion of appointed supreme court judges and only claims "to end radical islam".
- ffwszgf 5y agoIt’s interesting because “destroy whiteness” was and is a popular talking point in certain circles or the left. Obviously they don’t literally mean destroy white people but as always the benefit of the doubt is extended to them but “destroy Islam” immediately is interpreted as inherently violent or evil.
- notRacistSir 5y agoTake that, and apply it to "destroy jewishness" Let's see where you end up.
- onlyrealcuzzo 5y agoIIUC, anti religion (ex Christianity) is pretty equally distributed on the left and right... Right?
- klipt 5y agoThe main consistent principle on the social-justice-left is rooting for the underdog. By that logic, a Hindu minority in Pakistan saying "destroy Islam" is good, but a Hindu majority in India saying the same thing is bad. Of course the side effect of that belief is that people spend a lot of time trying to prove they're underdogs, e.g. look at kids on Tumblr listing all the ways they're oppressed because they have self diagnosed ADHD/aspergers, or trying really hard to claim ancestry of an oppressed group.
- zozbot234 5y agoWell, more like "halfway-consistent" principle. When it's them who are holding power over some underdog group, they'll happily call that group a "basket of deplorables".
- adamnemecek 5y ago“Discord primarily acts as a hub for extreme right-wing socialising and community building.” Primarily? No, not even close.
- QuarterReptile 5y agoProbably the writer was trying to say that discord is a primary venue for those activities?
- DoItToMe81 5y agoI've seen users, occasionally even whole servers, get banned because of people saying things like "brb smoking a fag". I highly doubt any discussion of right wing extremism is possible in the long term on Discord, let alone it "primarily acting as a hub for the extreme right" or even being their primary platform in general.
- beebmam 5y agoI'd like to understand why so many young people find extremist content so persuasive and engaging. I can't stand it, and I instantly close any website that allows for extreme content.
- throwaway0a5e 5y agoGood times give you lone wolves. Extreme times drive people into the arms of extreme ideologies. And it's just as much a problem of visibility and perception as it is one of reality.
- after_care 5y agoThis is well studied. The summary is that they target isolated or vulnerable people. It's the same with cults, diploma mills, and multi-level marketing schemes.
- pyuser583 5y agoI’d be interest in those studies. I have experience with all three. MLMs. My experience is that MLMs victimized people with high levels of trust and connection. It often stars with a relative or church member. Or a workmate. The sort of people that are hard to say no to. They use high pressure sales tactics, combine with exploiting social capital. Diploma mill. People who don’t have experience with post secondary education, and high trust for authority. I’m not aware of any network affects. It’s not like your sister in law is pressuring you to get a Ph. D from Baleful University. I have seen legitimate schools marketed this way: “if you don’t get your kids into Yuppyville Elementary, they wont have a chance at Harvard.” I’ve seen cults … too many. Most mainstream religious organizations have people at the margins. People who are mentally ill. Have drug issues. Etc. It’s hard to incorporate them into the mainstream of church life. But most churches feel they are obligated to reach out to people like that. Para-church organizations are becoming more popular. Like knights of Columbus (they’re old). If someone wants to start up a para church org, there’s not much anyone can do to stop them. They piggy back on mainstream denominations. Combining people with issues with unmanaged para-church orgs can be toxic, and lead to cults quickly. I know most people on HN probably have a negative view of religion, and don’t make much of a distinction between “good religion” and “bad cult.” But a good example is anti-vaccination ideas. Almost no major religious body rejects COVID vaccines. It’s the para church orgs doing that. It’s the same environment that creates predatory groups like “I the leader, and like Abraham must have multiple wives … and I chose all of you as my wives.”
- zozbot234 5y ago
- coolso 5y agoPretty sure the government tried paying people to install toilets in their homes but most refused and all continue to go in the streets as well - the occasional concerned citizen has even been assaulted for requesting that people not do it.
- KhoomeiK 5y agoSource? The statistics disagree: https://img.etimg.com/photo/msid-65207066,quality-100/graph.jpg https://img.etimg.com/photo/msid-65207066,quality-100/graph....
- coolso 5y agohttps://m.timesofindia.com/india/why-millions-of-indians-dont-use-the-toilets-they-have/articleshow/71438942.cms https://m.timesofindia.com/india/why-millions-of-indians-don...
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- james-redwood 5y agoThis is patently false. I spent several weeks in India for work in 2015, and while I saw many strange things on my trip, this was not one of them. I spent time in four big cities, and even took a drive through some rather rural and poor areas. One would think that if it were remotely common you would at least see it once over the course of a month and a half. Everywhere I went had adequate sanitation facilities, and I did take liberties in exploring the cities and their general surrounds, so it wasn’t like I was ensconced in a wealthy bubble. One of these cities was a ‘Tier 2 city) in a relatively poor state for India (below $1000 GDP per capita PPP), and if your claim is that this is apparently happening with ‘most’ people it’s very incorrect. As someone who was born in Africa, I can assure you that the situation is _far_ worse… just to get a taste for the crazy stories (other than many parts of Africa commonly openly defecating on the street) look up Michael Komape if you don’t want to eat breakfast today. The problem is is that in many poor and developing countries, there’s just a basic lack of service delivery. In many townships (slums) in South Africa, where I grew up, people walk and live in their own sewage as it runs down dirt roads, and it’s rather common to see a person relieving themselves into water just a couple meters away from where children play. They don’t have access to running or clean water, a toilet, electricity, or anything of the sort, which is unsurprisingly why diarrhoeal disease is the biggest killer of African children, beating out malaria and I suppose AIDS as well. When I travelled across Africa, it was clear that this situation more or less repeats itself. Toilets are also expensive (think up to a few hundred dollars) for someone living on less than a dollar a day and who can barely feed their families: effectively they are like the homeless of the west, as their ‘house’ is merely a corrugated tin shack that barely has enough space to fit two beds. Coming from someone who has travelled across many dirt poor countries, I think India is far out of the ‘Africa’ bracket of countries (i.e a quasi failed state with mostly impoverished citizens and no service delivery), but it’s still very poor, which is visibly clear when you visit.
- joemazerino 5y ago[flagged]
- hgfshfg123 5y ago
- forgotOldPas 5y ago[dead]