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Yesterday, US grounded all planes on the west coast for ten minutes
- runjake 5y agoSpoiler: because of a North Korean missile launch.
- stjo 5y agoNot confirmed though, just the most probable theory for now.
- goodluckchuck 5y agoNORAD disputed that per The Drive's article.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- Karawebnetwork 5y agoThe word "All" is not present on this page. The article says "to some pilots" and "the FAA temporarily paused departures at some airports". It also says "Other West Coast airports contacted by CNN said they were unaware of the order."
- stjohnswarts 5y agoJust use Bitwarden or something like KeePass when you finally get access to your password. LastPass is clearly trying to make a big move before they either close shop or make a move into more corporate oriented users.
- dmitrygr 5y agoATC flight strips: https://imgur.com/a/5uXyaO7 https://imgur.com/a/5uXyaO7
- nerdponx 5y agoWhat are these? Does the ATC receive messages as printouts like this?
- dmitrygr 5y agoYes, and they track flights using these too. Like this: https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/tfdm/efs/media/paper%20strips%20c.png https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/tfdm/efs/media/pa...
- imroot 5y agoThese are flight strips -- they go into a stack that help the controller know what planes he is working and usually include the destination, the flight time, the type of aircraft, and a few other things. https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/tfdm/efs/ https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/tfdm/efs/ -- a program to replace the paper strips with electronic ones.
- jabroni_salad 5y agoit is a flight strip, and it's how they track flights. they do print messages on them, but the main purpose is to track which planes are in a given sector and at what altitude or to sequence takeoffs and landings. https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/atc_html/chap2_section_3.html https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/atc_html... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_progress_strip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_progress_strip
- blhack 5y ago>No this is not a joke Whoa
- dmitrygr 5y agoMore info: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/43832/mystery-surrounds-faa-order-to-halt-all-west-coast-air-traffic-after-north-korea-fired-missile https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/43832/mystery-surround...
- kencausey 5y agoAnyone interested in this issue should read this story from the Drive and absolutely should scroll down and read the updates even if they don't finish the story.
- candiddevmike 5y agoThe updates make the story even more bizarre, IMO. NORAD says everything is fine, who told the FAA to suspend?
- ceejayoz 5y agoFrom the original article: > The NORAD spokeswoman said the normal sequence following the launch was followed: The missile launch was detected, and it was assessed not to be a threat to the continental United States. The standard practice is for FAA to have a constant liaison in the NORAD ops center, therefore would have been aware of the quick assessment. I presume the "quick assessment" is not an instant assessment, and the FAA rep present may have passed on the "there's a missile and they're assessing right now" to HQ while it was going on.
- jakedata 5y ago
- pengaru 5y agoWhat amount of US responses to NK's actions constitute deliberately hyperbolic consent manufacturing?
- rconti 5y agoIf that was what they were doing, I think they could have done a better job.
- zapataband1 5y agoThis country is developing dangerous missiles, sincerely, The Governments that own and sell dangerous missiles
- pphysch 5y agoUpwards of 99%
- ceejayoz 5y agoMeh. It seems fairly clear that once you've got nukes, you're fairly safe from US intervention. Doubly so if close US allies are in range of your missiles. The difference in how the US treats North Korea versus Iran is pretty clear.
- bostonsre 5y agoI'm not really worried about Kim wanting to launch a first strike when he has a solid grasp on his regime. I could see a scenario where he is petty and childish and where a coup is launched, he is about to lose control and makes a decision that amounts to "if I can't run this country, then noone can". He does seem to genuinely dislike the United States, so would be a two birds with one stone decision. I don't know how likely it is for that to happen or whether or not he cares about his countrymen. The purges that he ran to consolidate power early on make it seem like he is not averse to violence.
- solotronics 5y agoSkyking Skyking do not answer...
- riffic 5y agocontext: https://specialcollections.radio/This-Is-What-DEFCON-Sounds-Like-Skyking-Emergency-Action-Messages https://specialcollections.radio/This-Is-What-DEFCON-Sounds-...
- dylan604 5y agoI was a little worried when the sub-heading said "Skying Skying..." However, made it all the way down to their audio clip. Holy cow that gets totally psychedelic after just a couple of minutes. Such a bit of sample gold!
- paxys 5y agoKnee-jerk "better safe than sorry" decisions often do more harm than good. There was no conceivable threat from a random North Korean missle test to an airplane in Burbank, CA, and that was quickly determined by people who have the responsibility of making such assessments (NORAD). Why then did a random FAA official decide otherwise?
- GordonS 5y agoThe cynic in me says it could have been a propaganda move - as in, the authorities knew there wasn't a credible threat, but it suits their narrative to have the media latching on to it. Because the media are guaranteed to have the story grow FUD-cladded arms and legs.
- KarlKemp 5y agoI have no earthly idea what “narrative“ you are referring to, or what kind of FUD you expect the media to spread. The story will either just disappear because nothing really happened, or it will be about “overly cautious” vs “better safe than sorry”, as this thread is.
- tobyjsullivan 5y agoNations rattling their sabres is just background noise to busy people trying to live their private lives. Grounding my flight for 10 minutes, though? That makes it real and tangible.
- mateo1 5y agoIt could be that the planes could interfere with the long range early warning system. Something that you really don't want to happen for a multitude of reasons. A ten minute delay is barely a minor inconvenience, and a good call to make imho even if it's for all for nothing.
- dragontamer 5y ago> It could be that the planes could interfere with the long range early warning system. "Interference" is one possible way to call it. Another is "US Military getting ready to blast all objects in the sky with counter-nukes", and airplanes really don't want to be in the crossfire right now. I don't really know how the US missile-defense system works. I'm imagining that old 1980s arcade game "Missile Command" though...
- rindalir 5y agoWell, I guess it's better than sending an "inbound missile" alert to everyone's phone across a whole state.
- firstlink 5y ago
- z3t4 5y agoProbably wanted to make a big deal out of it. aka. make a hen from a feather
- rmason 5y agoI remember a time when you could just walk into an airport and board a plane. In fact bring along a guest to see you off, they will be told when to depart if they don't have a ticket. Then along came the first hijackers and you had to go through security and have a valid ticket to board a plane. After 9-11 security ratcheted up even more and the guards became federal employees. Now if a third class nation is getting to ready to launch a missile all the planes sit until receiving a green light. When does the next hyperloop leave SF for Tokyo?
- fabianhjr 5y ago> When does the next hyperloop leave SF for Tokyo? Never, the whole world has been building more efficient and cost-effective transportation such as high speed rail. Some details by Adam Something on the technology itself: "The HYPERLOOP Will Never Work, And Here's Why" < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQJgFh_e01g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQJgFh_e01g >
- Robotbeat 5y agoHow is your high speed rail going to get from SF to Tokyo? Perhaps some sort of tunnel? But it’d still take too long and potentially have too much air resistance … unless, since you already have to resist a huge amount of water pressure, you lowered the pressure to that equivalent to the altitude that airplanes fly at or even higher. …Oh no.
- jonathankoren 5y agoAll you need is a radium drill. ;) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tunnel_(1935_film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tunnel_(1935_film)
- fabianhjr 5y agoWell, if you have infinite resources sure. If you wanted to do a non-air and non-boat link your only cost-effective option would be to do surface rail to Alaska and then cross about ~80 kilometers by bridge or tunnel (which is about the same as the Channel Tunnel) Sure as hell a direct tunnel from San Francisco to Tokyo wouldn't be doable. (The US cannot even finish their California high speed rail project)
- jjwiseman 5y agoNot only did they stop departures, but I heard at least two aircraft told they had to land. "I need you to go ahead and land at Van Nuys at this time. Some kind of national security threat's going on and we are not allowing aircraft to maneuver in the area at the moment." https://twitter.com/lemonodor/status/1480763671164817410 https://twitter.com/lemonodor/status/1480763671164817410 This aircraft had just taken off, and then: "At the moment sir I need you to return to Van Nuys and land. Something's going on and we're not sure exactly what yet but we need you to return back to to Van Nuys and land..." https://twitter.com/lemonodor/status/1480941345787187206 https://twitter.com/lemonodor/status/1480941345787187206
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- ethbr0 5y agohttps://mobile.twitter.com/FAANews/status/1480956796395261958 https://mobile.twitter.com/FAANews/status/148095679639526195... (1/11/2022 @ 12:36pm) "As a matter of precaution, the FAA temporarily paused departures at some airports along the West Coast on Monday night. Full operations resumed in less than 15 minutes. The FAA regularly takes precautionary measures. We are reviewing the process around this ground stop as we do after all such events." Also on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/ATC/comments/s0xbvu/well_that_was_weird/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ATC/comments/s0xbvu/well_that_was_w... And TWZ: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/43832/mystery-surrounds-faa-order-to-halt-all-west-coast-air-traffic-after-north-korea-fired-missile https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/43832/mystery-surround...
- frakkingcylons 5y agoThe all-caps in this title is a bit much. From Bloomberg: “The Federal Aviation Administration issues ground stops routinely to ensure airports and high-altitude flight paths remain orderly. They can occur for weather, volcanic eruptions or any number of reasons. On Monday afternoon, for example, the FAA ordered a brief halt to flights in the central region of the U.S. as a result of aircraft volume related to the college football championship game in Indianapolis.” https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-11/flights-at-u-s-airports-halted-during-north-korea-missile-test https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-01-11/flights-a...
- jjwiseman 5y agoI think this is a bit different. This was a very sudden, multi-region (4 Air Route Traffic Control Centers: Seattle, Oakland, Los Angeles, Honolulu) ground stop with controllers telling pilots they could not continue maneuvering and had to land because of a national security threat, and maybe they'd be scrambling fighters[1]. I think some of that is just controller speculation, but at the very least they didn't think it was at all routine. [1] https://twitter.com/thenewarea51/status/1480982996337496067 https://twitter.com/thenewarea51/status/1480982996337496067
- vmception 5y agoOn Sunday, TSA Pre was especially sensitive to everyone passing through it. Small jewelry triggering the metal detectors, high frequency of random screenings, doing swabs over electronics. Just one data point for one airport at one time period, but it was confusing everyone as their threat assessment was set much higher than normal.
- wan23 5y agoTSA PreCheck - The green checkmark is part of the name https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TSA_PreCheck#/media/File:TSA_Precheck_logo.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TSA_PreCheck#/media/File:TSA_P...
- vmception 5y agohaha thats so dumb I'm never going to write it that way or say it that way outloud fortunately the point of language is to quickly convey a shared concept so as nobody will be confused I think we're good here edit: also one of the variants on boarding passes is just TSA PRE without the check, just as your wikipedia article says. so they've created their own colloquialism.
- ars 5y agoThat's quite a sentence - "ALL planes", wait no, just "West coat", wait no, just "10 minutes".
- Graffur 5y agoNormally sentences are taken in full to understand the meaning. From this the sentence is fine.
- createccount 5y ago
- aarontait 5y agoThe title is somewhat misleading. A groundstop is far less dramatic than "grounding" all flights (including ones already en-route). Grounding all flights would be akin to what the FAA ordered during the 9/11 attacks.
- lamplovin 5y agoThe comments so far seem pretty negative, but for a pause of (what the article says) of 15 minutes I'd say that sounds like a pretty good call on the FAA's part for what reads like a moment of uncertainty with the risk of being wrong very great? Personally I'd think 15 minutes of inconvenience would be pretty petty of me to prioritize over protection from a potential national security threat
- FPGAhacker 5y agoI’m not sure what possible risk there was to our aircraft. Specifically from a missile launch in NK. I’m not saying there are no risks, but I can’t think of any.
- d23 5y agoDo you have sufficient expertise in this area that would make you qualified to assess such a thing?
- theandrewbailey 5y agoWe don't want our anti-missile systems to mistake our aircraft for an enemy missile. I'm not an expert in any of those things, but that's the best I can come up with.
- bubbleRefuge 5y agoMe too. Was thinking same thing. Don't want planes getting caught in the crossfire considering we would probably throw a drag net of intercepting missiles at it.
- drzaiusapelord 5y agoThis is it. Look at how often this happens, recently in Iran and before that in Ukraine. Anti-missile and anti-air systems are extremely dangerous and reckless machines. Civilian flights get blown up all the time and being extra cautious makes a lot of sense.
- boboche 5y agoAnyone else was thinking that it has been a while since we’ve had dramma about NK and, well, regret thinking that now? :).
- chiefalchemist 5y agoAn unusual ground stop was issued to some pilots for a short period of time following a North American Aerospace Defense Command alert of a launch of a North Korean missile, a US official said Tuesday. The official says it was not a national ground stop and may have been issued by a regional air traffic control facility. “No warning was issued by NORAD HQ,” regarding a potential threat to the US, according to Captain Pamela Kunze, the chief NORAD spokesperson I'm confused. Did NORAD do it or not?
- jessaustin 5y agoWell, except for those carrying bin-Laden family members.
- dirtyid 5y agoOver alleged (by SK) of mach 10 NK hypersonic test. Arms Control Wonk think it's MaRV. NK mostly don't issue NOTAMs for their tests from my understanding. US response seems to imply sufficient new capability that would cause alarm. I don't think there were past groundings on this scale over NK missiles.
- CryptoBanker 5y ago> Other West Coast airports contacted by CNN said they were unaware of the order. Doesn't seem to be ALL planes
- TigeriusKirk 5y agoIf this is proper official procedure, doesn't that give North Korea the ability to disrupt US air traffic at will?
- lobocinza 5y agoI'm only guessing but this looked like a silent DEFCON 3. Grounding all planes might be just standard procedure.
- SilasX 5y agoWeird, I'm more surprised this wasn't all over the news. You'd think something like that would fill up social media.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- cameldrv 5y agoWhat I want to know is, if the threat was deemed to be great enough to have airplanes land, why wasn't the public notified to seek shelter?