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A Survey of Programmers' Cannabis Usage, Perception, and Motivation

fallingfrog 5y ago
It does help you write code, which is strange since it doesn’t help you do other things better. Perhaps it’s a matter of dosage though- a little bit helps you get in the zone and visualize the data. But I can’t smoke anymore because I have children I’m responsible for.
brokebroadbeat 5y ago
manager here, but weed helps me unwind and destress after a busy week or day, think i'd jeopardise that work/life balance by ripping shotties during work hours
crate_barre 5y ago
I can’t see how you can do anything other than micro-dose cannabis (small hits or low dosage edibles). You just get too high to be productive. But I’m very interested to see if low dosages help.
- capnorange 5y ago
  for me, cannabis is only useful for sleep and sometimes blank canvas thinking.
- beepbooptheory 5y ago
  This is maybe pendantic but there are different types of productivity. If I really need to get one thing done, it does no favors to be stoned. But if you just want to learn, experiment, explore, I find it extremely useful in keeping myself patient and receptive. I learn languages in very much sober place, but learning linux I can be stoned, and maybe it helps? Also if your in this space at all, you just need to modify Hemingway's advice: commit stoned, but rebase sober!
  - crate_barre 5y ago
    That’s quite true. I’ve sat through a couple lectures/learning tutorials with some wine and managed fine (was more fun). Taking the edge off is a strategy that works well in moderation since often procrastination is a phenomenon where fear and anxiety can be inhibiting. Stigma is one of the reasons experimentation has such a bad rap.
- jstahrowaway 5y ago
  That depends. A lot of people who say you "just get too high" often have a super low tolerance, and they are smoking enough to get shit faced. If you smoke frequently and only do a puff, trust me, not everybody gets as high as you do with your one edible a month. I work at a top tech company smoking before work, it really only relaxes me at this point, however I smoked weed since 14.
  - crate_barre 5y ago
    I will certainly confess my tolerance sucks, but we are effectively talking about the same end result. To get a useful high, we need just the right functional amount of buzz. The quantity is obviously different for everyone, but the goal is the same.
- nemosaltat 5y ago
  Anecdotally, I’ve found that when I’m stumped on a section of code, a micro dose, coupled with working on something else, _can_ speed my normal process of “walking away from a problem for a bit.” But yeah, exceeding a small amount just makes me code slower. edit: originally omitted “something else”
  - ASinclair 5y ago
    I've had the same experience. It forces me out of that obsessive debugging loop and gets me thinking about something else for a while. Though I'm sure there are plenty of other activities that could accomplish the same thing.
throwawaygh 5y ago
Is "programmer" a coherent group? How much does a Senior Engineer doing something like writing kernel code have in common with a fresh high school grad writing on something like a single threaded ASP/PHP codebase for an internal tool that has fewer than 100 daily users? I've done both of those jobs, and they both involve the same set of general tasks (requirements, brainstorming, coding). But in actuality they have almost nothing in common. The fact that both involve writing code is mostly a red herring. More to the point: is a convenience sample taken by a university research group representative of the profession? I'm generally suspicious of Emperical SE research that doesn't either: 1. focus on specific sub-populations of the programming profession, or else 2. make an extremely strong case that their research questions are highly likely to generalize across all research labor. (edit: changed wording because many folks made the worst-possible interpretations of my original comment.)
- nickysielicki 5y ago
  > Is "programmer" a coherent group? Well, it's a profession, so yes. > They have almost nothing in common. They both write code all day. Professionally. I'm sorry for the snark. You might be able to make a case that this study doesn't take income into account but that's not the comment you're making here.
  - gumby 5y ago
    I think there's a fundamental complexity and skills-required difference between someone writing kernel code or microcode and someone writing a generic CRUD app.
    - haswell 5y ago
      Most devs at “$FANCY_CO” aren’t writing kernel code or microcode either. There is merit to the idea that different developers focus on different kinds of problems, but the positioning of the parent comment - that this variance is due to the size/prestige of the org - is incorrect.
    - nickysielicki 5y ago
throwaway599281 5y ago
> Furthermore, this cannabis usage is primarily motivated by a perceived enhancement to certain software development skills (such as brainstorming or getting into a programming zone) rather than medicinal reasons How can anyone who has tried it remotely believe this nonsense?
- ModernMech 5y ago
  Remember cannabis has a range of effects, so there is no singular "it" to be tried. You can try one strain of cannabis and it will knock you out. No problem solving happening there. Then you can try another strain and your mind is flooded with ideas. Both are called "cannabis" but it's not the same drug really.
  - bicx 5y ago
    This has definitely been my experience. If you take an Indica gummy, you're most likely going to want to just lay on the couch and take a nap. On the other hand, I've had hybrids and sativas that will really lock me in on what I'm doing. I don't know if I could say I was more productive, but I definitely felt more focused.
- MissionInfl 5y ago
  It's possible to have different reactions to the same drug :) As someone that is a heavy longtime user and recently diagnosed ADHD (there is a deep relationship between cannabis/substances and ADHD), I did find during the pandemic that smoking cannabis prior to writing software made it feel more productive. Given I couldn't prove that I was really more productive, and there are other costs, I decided against using it at least for my full time job. This is all to say, YMMV with cannabis or any psychoactive substance.
  - torbTurret 5y ago
    “Feel more productive” - just like all the drunk drivers who swear, “I actually drive better drunk!”
rbanffy 5y ago
I think a lot of the overengineering is driven by amphetamines and self medication instead. I'd expect a system designed under Cannabis to be very simple and flexible.
ArtWomb 5y ago
Somewhat related, but a recent Senate hearing cited the lack of a national standard regarding cannabis impaired driving. They voted to investigate further. Results may be counter-intuitive ;) Interesting there is so little research into the actual *effects* on humans. You get better data from Leafly reviews!
- gumby 5y ago
  Because the DEA and the "War" on Drugs opposed any research. Just as congress prohibited the government from maintaining statistics on gun violence almost 20 years ago. If you don't like what might be learned, don't let anyone look. (I don't like smoking pot, or really any mind altering substances, but other peoples' use is none of my business and I think it is worth a study).
- pxc 5y ago
  > Interesting there is so little research into the actual effects on humans. You get better data from Leafly reviews! I imagine that this will always be true, because what you want to know about the effects is inherently qualitative and subjective, and that kind of research gets relatively little attention and funding.
- mabbo 5y ago
  Many years ago, before we legalized it generally, an acquaintance of my father fought a fun court case related to this. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/pot-smoking-motorist-not-guilty-of-impaired-driving-1.404980 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/pot-smoking-motorist-not-guil... From everything I've read about him, the guy was a hell of a character and maybe some of his misfortune was self-inflicted, but he did fight some important court cases around marijuana laws.
educaysean 5y ago
For me weed is not really something that actively aids in problem-solving or brainstorming, but rather acts as more of a motivation booster. When it's 11pm and I have a handful of less-demanding tasks to slog through, that's where I've found weed to be a lot of help. It helps make otherwise routine tasks more engaging. It even gives me sufficient motivation to actively refactor and improve parts of codebase that I might've otherwise ignored or ticketed away in the backlog.
- awestroke 5y ago
  Why are you working at 11pm?
  - ses1984 5y ago
    During the day I just kind of loaf around, answer questions on slack, practice music, work out, etc. Late at night is the only time I can get any deep work done.
    - pm90 5y ago
      I am so glad to read this because I am just the same. Day time seems like there’s just too much other things to do, night time it’s quiet and dark and it feels cozy to sit at my desk, uninterrupted by slack messages or meetings and get long stretches of focus time.
      - technophiliac 5y ago
        We are legion...
      - indiantinker 5y ago
        I am double glad to read this. I am pretty much the same. I just cannot work when other people are around. I tend to end up helping them on some of their tasks and do my work when they all have left. The problem is that doing so gets work done , but you get a bit burny and your, if any, social life suffers. I have since then, done the following, found a special zone/cabin and started to make a list when I go to this cabin. This has helped on tasks that I like to do (like designing and programming) but I still have to slog through other tasks (making presentations and writing pointless documents) in the late evenings. The guide that helped me was this : https://adhdatwork.add.org/adhd-accommodation-guide/ https://adhdatwork.add.org/adhd-accommodation-guide/
Stevvo 5y ago
A personal anecdote; I don't find Cannabis useful for difficult problem solving, but for more repetitive tasks like writing unit tests it's a fun way to pass the time.
- cmrdporcupine 5y ago
  Yeah the only uses I've ever found for cannabis was: doing the dishes and going to sleep.
flatiron 5y ago
I got my three kids desks for christmas. Put them down to bed for the night and smoke a little weed. I was shocked how I couldn’t follow ikea desk instructions. Got frustrated and decided to try again sober. I was super shocked the next day how easy it was to follow when sober.
- conductr 5y ago
  I’ve experienced this. Generally following ikea step by step style directions is just boring af when high and my mind wonders. But if I put that same energy towards something more creative I can really lock in. Although, sometimes my brilliant creative ideas are complete garbage when seen through sober eyes.
- alpenbazi 5y ago
  same. complex logical thinking is quite hard. but feeling is great. listening high to classical sound sometimes opens the story, the memory or the feelings the creator wanted to transport. for example. so, a day in remote-meetings can be quite nice high, a complex migration hardly.. €dit: could we pair our experiences with our "handed"-style? i'm strongly lefthanded. i have a theory, with left handeds the possibility is higher to the "logical stuff does not work anymore" component than for righthandeds
  - deleted 5y ago
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  - Eldt 5y ago
    I'm a prolific consumer of THC and have done considerable professional and personal work to a good quality under the influence. I suspect tolerance and dosage can lead to a variety of experiences.
  - zelon88 5y ago
    For me I find that pot reduces background noise in my mind that would otherwise prevent me from becoming extremely focused. When I'm high I can follow the instructions so hard that I won't notice a person standing next to me addressing me by name.
rpmisms 5y ago
Coding while really high is difficult. Coding while a little buzzed is a wonderful experience. It's almost like an artificial flow state.
- GrumpyNl 5y ago
  I experience it the same way.
  - Datagenerator 5y ago
    Maybe it's CBD and almost no THC that enables being productive and creative
    - rpmisms 5y ago
      Maybe? CBD does next to nothing for me. A small amount of THC enables really deep focus for me. I'd describe it as allowing me to follow every thought that passes and deliberately investigate it.
extr 5y ago
Just read the abstract but seems to make sense. Weed (in a low/moderate dose) is great every once and awhile if you're trying to brainstorm or think holistically about how something should work. Sometimes if you have to work on something really boring it allows you to see it in a new light and appreciate interesting the aspects of the task. But if you're actually trying to get work done, good luck remembering what loop iteration you're on! Despite the above, personally I have a hard time justifying getting "high on the clock" as ethical even if it makes me more productive in some things. Though it feels like having a little puff on a wide-open, set-aside Friday afternoon isn't too much different than having a drink in that situation, something I'm occasionally guilty of. IDK. What do people here think?
- colechristensen 5y ago
  Do you think drinking caffeine is similarly unethical, why or why not?
  - extr 5y ago
    No, definitely not. In a strict sense, because it is not a federally scheduled drug and I didn't make any agreement with my employer not to use it on the clock. The same argument applies to alcohol, but I've noticed that cultural expectations around drinking are a lot different. A "business lunch" with a beer is no big deal in many (most?) industries. But I've never been at a business lunch where everyone passed around a joint!
    - ModernMech 5y ago
      > because it is not a federally scheduled drug Is it your view that cannabis is a federally scheduled drug for ethical reasons? Or is your view that it's always ethical to follow laws as written? I guess what I'm getting at is that to me there doesn't seem to be any good ethical reason for cannabis to be a federally scheduled drug in the first place. In fact, given the devastation the war on drugs has caused, it's my opinion that it's unethical for cannabis to be a federally scheduled drug.
    - 5y ago
mrtksn 5y ago
I thought that cannabis enhances the imagination, boosts the creativity and induces out of the box thinking up until I was late to a party. When I arrived, I was sober when everyone else was high and I couldn't bear the stupidity of those normally intelligent people. That's when I stop using the substance. I'm more inclined to believe that Ballmer Peak[0] is a real thing and I do get productive, motivated and creative when I'm slightly drunk. Back in the university, one night when I was lonely and bored I just got enough drunk to code a Facebook app that will give invitations to invite-only shopping startup using my referral. By the time the sunlight hit me, I was finished reverse engineering their invite system, write a code that will generate the invite, design the UI where people will request the invite, write the copy that promotes it, integrate all that into Facebook app(at that time FB was cool), post it to the social media. Not the biggest engineering or creative challenge but I was first at it. When I woke up, my app was all over the social media, the founder had me added as a friend and invited me to their office. Lifted my max invitations limit and I made quite substantial(for a student)referral bonus and kept spending it for years to come. https://xkcd.com/323/ https://xkcd.com/323/
- __float 5y ago
  I can imagine it's a super different experience to be (probably very) high at a party, and to be a little stoned while working alone on a programming task. (Compare someone who's had 1 beer, and someone at a party doing shots in the kitchen :p) There's also the possibility that different people are affected differently, and maybe you just prefer alcohol to marijuana ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  - mrtksn 5y ago
    It could be, it's just that I'm yet to see someone fun and intelligent when Iim sober and they are high on cannabis(those who are high think that they are, of course). Slightly drunk people tend to be fun and maybe not exactly more intelligent than the sober but they tend to go out of their comfort zone which enables them to entertain ideas that they normally wouldn't do. There are many stories about how people invent things when slightly drunk at the bar and write it down on a napkin.
laluser 5y ago
> 29% of our sample reported they had taken a drug test for a programming-related job Wow, That seems so high. I don't know anyone in my circle of friends who was drug tested. Although, we are all on the west coast.
- ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
  I took one for both of my corporate jobs, and that was over thirty years ago. Not new.
  - conductr 5y ago
    That’s a pretty old sample. The war on drugs was full throttle 30 years ago. Boomers were the millennials and the greatest generation had all the real power. Their straight laced policies were on everything. These days it’s 50/50 for me. Depending on how conservative the corp culture is. But I work in finance and could literally embezzle their money. I’m actually surprised when i don’t get drug tested.
    - ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
      The funny thing is, I worked for a defense contractor for my first job, and looked like Cousin Itt. They never drug tested me.
- computershit 5y ago
  It is extremely common for more enterprisey jobs, or anything dealing with finance or gov. I wouldn't expect many smaller orgs or startups on the west coast to test very much. Most regular smokers I know just use fake piss to get around it.
tra3 5y ago
I can't even focus/code after 1 beer. I can't imagine what cannabis would do.
- GrumpyNl 5y ago
  Totally different substance.
  - tra3 5y ago
    Agreed. I can't anything cognitively difficult when I am any kind of intoxicated.
- lambic 5y ago
  In my twenties I did some of my best work after a few beers, as long as you define "best work" as "innovative code that works well but is mostly incomprehensible when you come back to it 6 months later"
  - tra3 5y ago
    This is a normal occurrence for me when I'm sober too :D
sporedro 5y ago
For me it really depends on how much I smoke and what the task is. If I’m trying to learn new tech and implement something new I’m weed dosnt help. If it’s coding in a language I already know beyond the absolute basics and I smoke a reasonable amount it actual makes me feel more engaged. Of course 10 bong rips or something wouldn’t be good, but a certain amount is great once in a while. As for alchahol after about 1 beer I lose all motivation to do anything and think clearly.
nothrowaways 5y ago
> "... 35% of our sample has tried programming while using cannabis, and 18% currently do so at least once a month..." Selection bias.
- Sebb767 5y ago
  Is it? It seems like you're comparing your anecdotal evidence against their (at least somewhat) scientific survey, which makes it more likely that you experience selection bias.
  - nothrowaways 5y ago
    I don't think a sample with 35% positive sample is representative of the population.
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BXLE_1-1-BitIs1 5y ago
Looking at the jerk off code in some highly revered and critical software, it wouldn't surprise me if the writers were on LSD or meth.
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darepublic 5y ago
for me weed is definitely an impediment to coding, even more so than alcohol
assbuttbuttass 5y ago
I always find it is more difficult to program while under the influence, I tend to make more typos and small mistakes. Doesn't stop me though.
- awestley 5y ago
  This is the most realistic answer here.
TrippinTraveler 5y ago
Anecdotal but I'm a "programmer" at BigTech™ and smoke all day every day, and at this point I can't tell if it helps me or hinders me, but when you smoke all the time, most of these stories you are hearing about in the comments don't happen. At this point in my life, it's just a little "pick me up". It's by no means a micro dose as I probably smoke a gram or 2 a day. But when you live high it's a different kind of beast. I'll probably stop one day, but at the moment I don't see a reason to. Maybe it helps, maybe it doesn't, but I like being high and at this point I am addicted for sure anyway.
- veidelis 5y ago
  It's just lovely to hear how honest you are about your "situation". I enjoy smoking occasionally. I would say that sometimes I dismiss my thoughts too quickly when I'm sober, and rarely engage in thought process about particular details too intensively when I'm a bit off the ground. Otherwise it's great no matter what's being done, just need to be active.
  - TrippinTraveler 5y ago
    Thanks, hopefully I am being honest with myself. I think weed can be very different for different people. Also it's not really mentioned here but Sativa and Indica strains also can make a difference as well as the THC % and method of consumption. I vape half a bowl from my Pax 3, I am in Canada so it's legal and we have THC % labels, I typically go for 25%+ which is not the "cheap stuff". I'd say if someone smoked my stuff with me at 9 AM, who doesn't normally smoke, it would probably knock them out for a few hours. But for me, it's like booting up in the morning. Nobody has ever mentioned or asked if I am high because I am more "normal" high than sober. Although I haven't been "sober" (clean for 4+ weeks) in many years, so I admit I have slightly lost perspective. It also has other effects on my life, such as my total loss of recalling my dreams, although I can tell they still occur, I just can't recall them at all.
    - shaky 5y ago
      You sound very much like me. Totally happy with my usage, and a chronic user that smokes 2-3 times per day reaching about a gram. It helps with empathy, it helps with creative flow, it helps with many things, but there are downsides of course. From August to December I took a break and it was immensely useful for perspective and for resetting my brain. My dreams were extremely vivid and rich, and going back to smoking was like rediscovering pot when I was 16. T breaks are indeed the key as GP pointed out.
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emrex 5y ago
The only time that canabis helps me personally at work is when I am almost at a burn out. Smoking on the weekend (not while working) it gives me a fresh start the next week, well rested. Never helped me to be a better developer while high, actually for me it is the oposit.
jsscss 5y ago
A+ wordplay in the title of the actual survey.
stef25 5y ago
Used to smoke daily for 20+ years. Nobody should kid themselves that pot makes you "stupid", for lack of a better term. Also puts me in a really bad mood the next day - short tempered, even aggressive. On rare occasions it does help with brainstorming, looking at things differently. But mostly it's good for forgetting about your day and just going to bed.
- tata71 5y ago
  Smoking (carcinogens, lowered blood oxygen) makes you stupid.
micromacrofoot 5y ago
I've vaped marijuana every night to sleep for the past 3 years or so... beats the pants off of any other insomnia med I've tried and it certainly takes the edge off of pandemic stress. As a weird side-effect it occasionally makes me want to work more, because an idea will hit me as I'm high. 50% of the time it's actually a really good idea. The effects on creativity are so apparent, I never would have guessed before trying it. I'm very diligent with not partaking during normal working hours though, my worst nightmare is having to debug something time-sensitive while high... it absolutely does not seem like a good time.
honkycat 5y ago
I love smoking weed. I smoke pretty much every day. Just a little bit, a puff on the vape pen to get my groove going after work. I find it USELESS for problem solving or productivity, but hey: I don't need to be productive 24 hours a day. I just want something to take the edge off while I play a strategy game or fart around on a game prototype. I NEVER do it during work or when I have to drive. I started smoking weed when I was 16. I remember it was New Years day and the cool older kids from the nearby city took a liking to me and offered to smoke with me. We all got high, and it was extremely fun. Still friends with those people today. They all did quite well for themselves. It was my rebellion growing up in a small town where there wasn't really much to rebel against. I had good parents and a good family. Little did I know my dad was also toking... Then I went from my small town to the big city for college, and life got really hard. I didn't have the money to pay for weed anymore, and my mental health wasn't great due to all of the stress of college and work, so I stopped for around 6 years. Then, about 3 years ago, I moved to a state where it as legal, and the first thing I did was buy some weed just to have the fun experience of purchasing it legally. And I smoked it. And I discovered something! It wasn't just youthful rebellion, or following along with the cool kids, or anything like that. I actually really enjoy the feeling of being high! It makes me feel calm and relaxed. And that is a good thing! Doing drugs is amoral[0]. There is this puritanical vein through US society that altering your state of mind, and making yourself feel good is a BAD thing. It even extends to coffee and caffeine sometimes. But altering your state of mind is not inherently wrong! Clearly, it can sometimes be used as a crutch for avoiding other pain in your life. I am sure we have all seen it. But the same can be said of video games, and television, and even exercise when overdone. If it doesn't have any other effect on your life, doing a drug is fine. - 0: Legal, not funding drug lords. I avoid illegal drugs for this reason.
- stareblinkstare 5y ago
  > not funding drug lords. I avoid illegal drugs for this reason. I hate to break it to you... [Edit: it's best if I expand this comment. The people who currently sell "legal" weed whitewashed illegal operations and coordinated it with lawmakers to put them at the top. Chinese, oddly enough, play a big part at this, since we're on an anti-China bend right now it might be useful to know. This whole legal drug thing... no, it doesn't exist. Anyone thinking otherwise needs to get a wake up call. You're supporting massive drug lords that wear suits and work alongside law enforcement.]
pipthepixie 5y ago
What about common nootropics people take to get into 'programmer flow', like nicotine, lions mane, choline, caffeine, theanine, etc Surely they're more effective than cannabis, which typically makes everything feel great, but in a sober frame of mind, and on hindsight, seem trivial and over-hyped when sober. I've tried various nootropic 'blends' (stacks) over the years and they've all been great. Cannabis has its uses, like experiencing the various vibes and feel of a new city for the first time, or making a snowman when it's snowing, but it's not some panacea that makes you super-productive. Not saying nootropics are a panacea either. You have to have the base multiplier before using nootropics, and already be in a flow state before getting any leverage from them. They don't automatically make you more productive or creative.
- bostonsre 5y ago
  Yea, I'm useless on weed and feel slower for a day or two afterwards but have had luck with nootropics. Just a warning about nicotine tho, it works well for me but it is addictive and I feel dumber for a couple days after stopping. Nicotine and substances like adrafinil almost feel like overclocking my brain.
- pvarangot 5y ago
  I read there's some research on Lion's mane, and there's a lot about caffeine and theanine but none of this are magic productivity pills. Like it's not that the concentration and productivity effects are obvious and reproducible among all humans. Caffeine has the "keep you awake thing" that cocaine also has and it's pretty reproducible but in most studies I've read about caffeine and L-theanine the flowy non-jittery productive state or any cognitive enhancement are spotty. I think the other problem with cannabis as a workday desk-job productivity enhancement substance that you are not mentioning is its interaction with other drugs and the unpredictable and really deep tolerance buildup. Like giving an average someone a curve of how much they need to smoke to get the same "effect" among weeks or months is probably really hard.
  - abacadaba 5y ago
    after seeing some fresh lion's mane at [fancy supermarket] for the first time, I'm convinced it's reputation is just because it looks and feels soft and squishy like a brain. still take some of course, yolo
marcodiego 5y ago
Well, and sometimes just maybe. When people feel like that and… but it is not always. Just a feeling that sometimes and just not always. But people do get the feel, and it is not the same thing but not always too. And it is great and good. /s
2-718-281-828 5y ago
> Such cannabis usage, however, is in conflict with anti-drug poli- cies currently enacted for many software engineering jobs: 29% of our sample reported they had taken a drug test for a programming- related job, a hiring practice that may limit developer application pools. What? 29% ... seriously? That's outrageous.
- sheepybloke 5y ago
  I've had to take one for a job because it was a government contractor position. I wonder if that's related to why the response is higher?
  - 2-718-281-828 5y ago
    that would be the only reason coming to my mind but then that sample would be quite biased. I never heard of that being a thing ever for dev positions.
- sophacles 5y ago
  A really really large number of programmers work for places like government contrators, banks, and insurance companies - the types of places that have blanket drug policies for all employees. There's probably a lot more companies that have such policies but they aren't enforced (unless something bad happens requiring it) because insurance gives discounts for having the policy, but thye will lose employees if they start enforcing it in a serious way.
Overtonwindow 5y ago
I work in government, and I smoke just about every day, all day. From a lifetime of trauma and PTSD, depression, and anxiety, NOTHING has been able to hold a candle next to the mental relief I get from just a little marijuana. It’s not for everyone, and although I’ve abstained many times, for me, it’s been a lifesaver.
neveradmitmyid 5y ago
I've been a heavy, 1 oz. of Indica a week smoker for decades, while being an extremely productive lead and principal software engineer on dozens of highly visible tech products. I am part of a heavy smoking, high tech collective of startup and career research individuals from companies people use everyday. I start my day with a combination of THC and caffeine, which folds into a deep work and research focus lasting the entire day. Over time, fellow high tech heavy smokers have identified one another, forming a moderately secret heavy smokers network that support one another in non-legal places, sometimes meet at big conventions, or we realize a number of us are at an airport at the same time and all meet in the smoker's den.
- criticaltinker 5y ago
  Wow an ounce per week is such a heavy intake, have you noticed any negative impacts for example to your lungs or teeth? Do you prefer smoking over edibles because of the instant rush versus a slow ramp up?
- GordonS 5y ago
  Have you considered d switching to vaping? It's so much more efficient that you'd likely only use 1/2 oz, or maybe even 1/3 oz.
  - gime_tree_fiddy 5y ago
    The efficiency, the dosage limitation and convenience is amazing, and its been a a few months when I smoked a joint. But I still find the joint to be better experience, not sure why, maybe the trace amounts of CBD.
    - MisterTea 5y ago
      smoking always trumps dry vape, oil, wax, and edibles. I've found joints to be the easiest but least efficient way to smoke (its hard to charge a smoker with paraphernalia for having papers if you also carry a bag of tobacco). bowls are better but have to be cleaned. bongs and bubblers are top dog but they are bulky and even harder to clean than bowls.
beiller 5y ago
Smoking helps me through the "grindy" parts of programming, like you have a set goal in front of you with many small tasks and the way they all fit together can be held in your mind in one go. When it comes to idea deadlock, like no architecture is a good fit and you just need to choose the best of the bad paths, cannabis can hinder me greatly. I work on many side projects with a toke or two.
jMyles 5y ago
Since we're all sharing our anecdotes... I'm in a someowhat rare position of wanting to consume (and particularly smoke) more cannabis, especially during the work day, but I refrain because of the "anxiety" or "paranoia" it causes. I use quotes because these phenomena aren't precisely anxiety or paranoia, and after-the-fact, I'm almost always thankful for the reflection that they provide. Has anybody found a way to increase intake and keep it regular over the long-term amidst these pain points?
ranprieur 5y ago
I use cannabis for creativity and motivation, in both writing fiction and playing piano. I can't prove that it gives me better ideas, but looking back from a state of sobriety, I believe that it does, and certainly I've been more productive high than I ever was sober. The catch is that I take frequent breaks. My current rule is, for every session, I have to go one calendar day without using it at all. This also keeps my tolerance low, so I only use about a gram a month.
Slavebot00 5y ago
This should be in the "Any excuse to get loaded.", department.
coffeeyesplease 5y ago
I'm a programmer (cto these days) and a skateboarder (kind of c'os age is not just a a number) and I've always been in awe of people who smoke weed and are able to engage in either activity and yet I do have friends capable of such. This is not a lie :-) I've seen it with my own eyes. What amazes me is how good they are at it. If, by contrast, I did same I would end up hurt or fired :-)
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stevenjgarner 5y ago
I would proffer that the recruitment bias for this survey renders its results dangerous. I would proffer further that programmers at large do no use cannabis and the "true" conclusion for such a study might well be the exact opposite of the authors. The recuitment basis for the survey is not random and is only amongst a very small subset of candidates the authors considered "ethically permitted" (specifically from GitHub, the University of Michigan and social media). So probably few enterprise programmers and few non-US participants, etc.. In other words not the majority of programmers. "We now present indirect evidence that our participants, while not a random sample, are similar in many ways to previous random samples or studies. A true random sample would not have been ethically permitted, but we gain confidence in our results’ generalizability by contextualizing participants’ gender, age, and employment. ... our study population by recruitment pool (e.g., how they were contacted to participate in this study)... from GitHub ... from the university ... and social media" - page 4, https://arxiv.org/pdf/2112.09365.pdf https://arxiv.org/pdf/2112.09365.pdf A more meaningful lead-in survey would have been to ask programmers from all sources if they are subject to any form of drug-testing. Perhaps they should have selected a less clickbaity title for their study: A Survey of [Ethically Permitted USA] Programmers' Cannabis Usage, Perception, and Motivation
bl4ckm0r3 5y ago
Always enjoyed but in small amounts and weak power. If it's only coding i can definitely see good impact on my performance but having meetings really really bring out the worst side (boredom) of meetings. Small joint with a bit of hash and coffee is the breakfast of the champions!
ok_dad 5y ago
I used to vape full spectrum THC+CBD cartridges and other forms of "vape juice" ("sugar", "oil", etc. are in that category) and consume THC+CBD edibles all day long, every day (except when I had to drive somewhere, I would stop for 4-6 hours or more prior to the trip), for about 2-3 (maybe 4?) years when I was in a legal state, but then I had to move to a non-legal state and since I have a kid it's no longer possible for me to use any weed (don't want to lose him to the system). I miss it so much, I was so much less stressed and calm with weed, and I was much more focused on work and I slept better. Now, I basically have to take shitty OTC sleep drugs and drink a pot (haha) of coffee a day in order to survive, and I yell way too much at my kid and get too angry at work. I wish we could just legalize it everywhere (fat chance of that happening) and make it like tobacco and alcohol, both of which are way worse for you than a daily weed habit.
- rajin444 5y ago
  That’s weird - I had to go off weed during a highly stressful period of my life. It temporarily made me forget about how stressful things were but then it all came crashing back after it wore off. I didn’t have time to process the stress sober. I’ve heard it’s very useful for extremely traumatic or temporarily stressful incidents but I found the opposite for chronic stress.
  - ok_dad 5y ago
    I’m an anxious person and it helped me a lot. I think it really depends on the individual because my wife just gets more stressed and anxious on weed, but for me it’s a miracle drug. In any case, I’m okay sober but I would love to at least have weed occasionally during large levels of stress. I would never be one of those people who suggest weed is great for everyone, just like alcohol is okay for some folks but for others the negatives are greater than the positives. If government would get out of the way and let us all decide what we prefer, and allow us get high quality drugs from a reliable and tested source, then I think each person would be better served by that than the government being our mommy and daddy.
- phonethrowaway 5y ago
  The farm bill made all hemp derived products legal federally at long as they contain only trace amounts of Delta 9 THC. Delta 8 and THC-O/acetate are legal. Not as strong, slightly different, but it gets the job done... kinda. Check it out... if you can. Check your state laws.
irthomasthomas 5y ago
This seems like a good place to drop a cool tip I learned recently. You can cure a weed overdose (the whitey) quickly with black pepper. Sniff it for instant relief, or swallow some whole corns. You can pop a few peppercorns pre-emptively too before you indulge. No more paranoia or anxiety.
remram 5y ago
I remember that survey from April. Another of those IRB-waived studies, with interesting questions such as "do you use other substances such as cocaine". Admitting to crimes was not enough to warrant IRB review... The survey also asked for detailed demographic data (well enough to de-anonymize IMHO) -- age, gender, income, field, highest degree... The link to the form to enter the drawing for $100 gift cards at the end was also dead (https://twitter.com/remram44/status/1379071856326684678 https://twitter.com/remram44/status/1379071856326684678) Not to put the results into questions, only to echo the recent Princeton mishaps I guess.
phendrenad2 5y ago
Weed doesn't help me program at all. It just conspires with my ADD to ensure that I have a really fun time playing video games. :) However, it does help with a lot of ancillary things: Helps me relax and reduces physical stress and tightness, helps me sleep, helps me enjoy workouts more (dunno how that one works). I've basically stopped doing weed altogether though, except on holidays and vacations when I really feel comfortable forgetting all responsibility for awhile.

It does help you write code, which is strange since it doesn’t help you do other things better. Perhaps it’s a matter of dosage though- a little bit helps you get in the zone and visualize the data. But I can’t smoke anymore because I have children I’m responsible for.

brokebroadbeat 5y ago

manager here, but weed helps me unwind and destress after a busy week or day, think i'd jeopardise that work/life balance by ripping shotties during work hours

crate_barre 5y ago

I can’t see how you can do anything other than micro-dose cannabis (small hits or low dosage edibles). You just get too high to be productive. But I’m very interested to see if low dosages help.

capnorange 5y ago
for me, cannabis is only useful for sleep and sometimes blank canvas thinking.
beepbooptheory 5y ago
This is maybe pendantic but there are different types of productivity. If I really need to get one thing done, it does no favors to be stoned. But if you just want to learn, experiment, explore, I find it extremely useful in keeping myself patient and receptive. I learn languages in very much sober place, but learning linux I can be stoned, and maybe it helps? Also if your in this space at all, you just need to modify Hemingway's advice: commit stoned, but rebase sober!
- crate_barre 5y ago
  That’s quite true. I’ve sat through a couple lectures/learning tutorials with some wine and managed fine (was more fun). Taking the edge off is a strategy that works well in moderation since often procrastination is a phenomenon where fear and anxiety can be inhibiting. Stigma is one of the reasons experimentation has such a bad rap.
jstahrowaway 5y ago
That depends. A lot of people who say you "just get too high" often have a super low tolerance, and they are smoking enough to get shit faced. If you smoke frequently and only do a puff, trust me, not everybody gets as high as you do with your one edible a month. I work at a top tech company smoking before work, it really only relaxes me at this point, however I smoked weed since 14.
- crate_barre 5y ago
  I will certainly confess my tolerance sucks, but we are effectively talking about the same end result. To get a useful high, we need just the right functional amount of buzz. The quantity is obviously different for everyone, but the goal is the same.
nemosaltat 5y ago
Anecdotally, I’ve found that when I’m stumped on a section of code, a micro dose, coupled with working on something else, _can_ speed my normal process of “walking away from a problem for a bit.” But yeah, exceeding a small amount just makes me code slower. edit: originally omitted “something else”
- ASinclair 5y ago
  I've had the same experience. It forces me out of that obsessive debugging loop and gets me thinking about something else for a while. Though I'm sure there are plenty of other activities that could accomplish the same thing.

throwawaygh 5y ago

Is "programmer" a coherent group? How much does a Senior Engineer doing something like writing kernel code have in common with a fresh high school grad writing on something like a single threaded ASP/PHP codebase for an internal tool that has fewer than 100 daily users? I've done both of those jobs, and they both involve the same set of general tasks (requirements, brainstorming, coding). But in actuality they have almost nothing in common. The fact that both involve writing code is mostly a red herring. More to the point: is a convenience sample taken by a university research group representative of the profession? I'm generally suspicious of Emperical SE research that doesn't either: 1. focus on specific sub-populations of the programming profession, or else 2. make an extremely strong case that their research questions are highly likely to generalize across all research labor. (edit: changed wording because many folks made the worst-possible interpretations of my original comment.)

nickysielicki 5y ago
> Is "programmer" a coherent group? Well, it's a profession, so yes. > They have almost nothing in common. They both write code all day. Professionally. I'm sorry for the snark. You might be able to make a case that this study doesn't take income into account but that's not the comment you're making here.
- gumby 5y ago
  I think there's a fundamental complexity and skills-required difference between someone writing kernel code or microcode and someone writing a generic CRUD app.
  - haswell 5y ago
    Most devs at “$FANCY_CO” aren’t writing kernel code or microcode either. There is merit to the idea that different developers focus on different kinds of problems, but the positioning of the parent comment - that this variance is due to the size/prestige of the org - is incorrect.
  - nickysielicki 5y ago

throwaway599281 5y ago

> Furthermore, this cannabis usage is primarily motivated by a perceived enhancement to certain software development skills (such as brainstorming or getting into a programming zone) rather than medicinal reasons How can anyone who has tried it remotely believe this nonsense?

ModernMech 5y ago
Remember cannabis has a range of effects, so there is no singular "it" to be tried. You can try one strain of cannabis and it will knock you out. No problem solving happening there. Then you can try another strain and your mind is flooded with ideas. Both are called "cannabis" but it's not the same drug really.
- bicx 5y ago
  This has definitely been my experience. If you take an Indica gummy, you're most likely going to want to just lay on the couch and take a nap. On the other hand, I've had hybrids and sativas that will really lock me in on what I'm doing. I don't know if I could say I was more productive, but I definitely felt more focused.
MissionInfl 5y ago
It's possible to have different reactions to the same drug :) As someone that is a heavy longtime user and recently diagnosed ADHD (there is a deep relationship between cannabis/substances and ADHD), I did find during the pandemic that smoking cannabis prior to writing software made it feel more productive. Given I couldn't prove that I was really more productive, and there are other costs, I decided against using it at least for my full time job. This is all to say, YMMV with cannabis or any psychoactive substance.
- torbTurret 5y ago
  “Feel more productive” - just like all the drunk drivers who swear, “I actually drive better drunk!”

rbanffy 5y ago

I think a lot of the overengineering is driven by amphetamines and self medication instead. I'd expect a system designed under Cannabis to be very simple and flexible.

ArtWomb 5y ago

Somewhat related, but a recent Senate hearing cited the lack of a national standard regarding cannabis impaired driving. They voted to investigate further. Results may be counter-intuitive ;) Interesting there is so little research into the actual *effects* on humans. You get better data from Leafly reviews!

gumby 5y ago
Because the DEA and the "War" on Drugs opposed any research. Just as congress prohibited the government from maintaining statistics on gun violence almost 20 years ago. If you don't like what might be learned, don't let anyone look. (I don't like smoking pot, or really any mind altering substances, but other peoples' use is none of my business and I think it is worth a study).
pxc 5y ago
> Interesting there is so little research into the actual effects on humans. You get better data from Leafly reviews! I imagine that this will always be true, because what you want to know about the effects is inherently qualitative and subjective, and that kind of research gets relatively little attention and funding.
mabbo 5y ago
Many years ago, before we legalized it generally, an acquaintance of my father fought a fun court case related to this. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/pot-smoking-motorist-not-guilty-of-impaired-driving-1.404980 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/pot-smoking-motorist-not-guil... From everything I've read about him, the guy was a hell of a character and maybe some of his misfortune was self-inflicted, but he did fight some important court cases around marijuana laws.

educaysean 5y ago

For me weed is not really something that actively aids in problem-solving or brainstorming, but rather acts as more of a motivation booster. When it's 11pm and I have a handful of less-demanding tasks to slog through, that's where I've found weed to be a lot of help. It helps make otherwise routine tasks more engaging. It even gives me sufficient motivation to actively refactor and improve parts of codebase that I might've otherwise ignored or ticketed away in the backlog.

awestroke 5y ago
Why are you working at 11pm?
- ses1984 5y ago
  During the day I just kind of loaf around, answer questions on slack, practice music, work out, etc. Late at night is the only time I can get any deep work done.
  - pm90 5y ago
    I am so glad to read this because I am just the same. Day time seems like there’s just too much other things to do, night time it’s quiet and dark and it feels cozy to sit at my desk, uninterrupted by slack messages or meetings and get long stretches of focus time.
    - technophiliac 5y ago
      We are legion...
    - indiantinker 5y ago
      I am double glad to read this. I am pretty much the same. I just cannot work when other people are around. I tend to end up helping them on some of their tasks and do my work when they all have left. The problem is that doing so gets work done , but you get a bit burny and your, if any, social life suffers. I have since then, done the following, found a special zone/cabin and started to make a list when I go to this cabin. This has helped on tasks that I like to do (like designing and programming) but I still have to slog through other tasks (making presentations and writing pointless documents) in the late evenings. The guide that helped me was this : https://adhdatwork.add.org/adhd-accommodation-guide/ https://adhdatwork.add.org/adhd-accommodation-guide/

Stevvo 5y ago

A personal anecdote; I don't find Cannabis useful for difficult problem solving, but for more repetitive tasks like writing unit tests it's a fun way to pass the time.

cmrdporcupine 5y ago
Yeah the only uses I've ever found for cannabis was: doing the dishes and going to sleep.

flatiron 5y ago

I got my three kids desks for christmas. Put them down to bed for the night and smoke a little weed. I was shocked how I couldn’t follow ikea desk instructions. Got frustrated and decided to try again sober. I was super shocked the next day how easy it was to follow when sober.

conductr 5y ago
I’ve experienced this. Generally following ikea step by step style directions is just boring af when high and my mind wonders. But if I put that same energy towards something more creative I can really lock in. Although, sometimes my brilliant creative ideas are complete garbage when seen through sober eyes.
alpenbazi 5y ago
same. complex logical thinking is quite hard. but feeling is great. listening high to classical sound sometimes opens the story, the memory or the feelings the creator wanted to transport. for example. so, a day in remote-meetings can be quite nice high, a complex migration hardly.. €dit: could we pair our experiences with our "handed"-style? i'm strongly lefthanded. i have a theory, with left handeds the possibility is higher to the "logical stuff does not work anymore" component than for righthandeds
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- Eldt 5y ago
  I'm a prolific consumer of THC and have done considerable professional and personal work to a good quality under the influence. I suspect tolerance and dosage can lead to a variety of experiences.
- zelon88 5y ago
  For me I find that pot reduces background noise in my mind that would otherwise prevent me from becoming extremely focused. When I'm high I can follow the instructions so hard that I won't notice a person standing next to me addressing me by name.

rpmisms 5y ago

Coding while really high is difficult. Coding while a little buzzed is a wonderful experience. It's almost like an artificial flow state.

GrumpyNl 5y ago
I experience it the same way.
- Datagenerator 5y ago
  Maybe it's CBD and almost no THC that enables being productive and creative
  - rpmisms 5y ago
    Maybe? CBD does next to nothing for me. A small amount of THC enables really deep focus for me. I'd describe it as allowing me to follow every thought that passes and deliberately investigate it.

extr 5y ago

Just read the abstract but seems to make sense. Weed (in a low/moderate dose) is great every once and awhile if you're trying to brainstorm or think holistically about how something should work. Sometimes if you have to work on something really boring it allows you to see it in a new light and appreciate interesting the aspects of the task. But if you're actually trying to get work done, good luck remembering what loop iteration you're on! Despite the above, personally I have a hard time justifying getting "high on the clock" as ethical even if it makes me more productive in some things. Though it feels like having a little puff on a wide-open, set-aside Friday afternoon isn't too much different than having a drink in that situation, something I'm occasionally guilty of. IDK. What do people here think?

colechristensen 5y ago
Do you think drinking caffeine is similarly unethical, why or why not?
- extr 5y ago
  No, definitely not. In a strict sense, because it is not a federally scheduled drug and I didn't make any agreement with my employer not to use it on the clock. The same argument applies to alcohol, but I've noticed that cultural expectations around drinking are a lot different. A "business lunch" with a beer is no big deal in many (most?) industries. But I've never been at a business lunch where everyone passed around a joint!
  - ModernMech 5y ago
    > because it is not a federally scheduled drug Is it your view that cannabis is a federally scheduled drug for ethical reasons? Or is your view that it's always ethical to follow laws as written? I guess what I'm getting at is that to me there doesn't seem to be any good ethical reason for cannabis to be a federally scheduled drug in the first place. In fact, given the devastation the war on drugs has caused, it's my opinion that it's unethical for cannabis to be a federally scheduled drug.
  - 5y ago

mrtksn 5y ago

I thought that cannabis enhances the imagination, boosts the creativity and induces out of the box thinking up until I was late to a party. When I arrived, I was sober when everyone else was high and I couldn't bear the stupidity of those normally intelligent people. That's when I stop using the substance. I'm more inclined to believe that Ballmer Peak[0] is a real thing and I do get productive, motivated and creative when I'm slightly drunk. Back in the university, one night when I was lonely and bored I just got enough drunk to code a Facebook app that will give invitations to invite-only shopping startup using my referral. By the time the sunlight hit me, I was finished reverse engineering their invite system, write a code that will generate the invite, design the UI where people will request the invite, write the copy that promotes it, integrate all that into Facebook app(at that time FB was cool), post it to the social media. Not the biggest engineering or creative challenge but I was first at it. When I woke up, my app was all over the social media, the founder had me added as a friend and invited me to their office. Lifted my max invitations limit and I made quite substantial(for a student)referral bonus and kept spending it for years to come. https://xkcd.com/323/ https://xkcd.com/323/

__float 5y ago
I can imagine it's a super different experience to be (probably very) high at a party, and to be a little stoned while working alone on a programming task. (Compare someone who's had 1 beer, and someone at a party doing shots in the kitchen :p) There's also the possibility that different people are affected differently, and maybe you just prefer alcohol to marijuana ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- mrtksn 5y ago
  It could be, it's just that I'm yet to see someone fun and intelligent when Iim sober and they are high on cannabis(those who are high think that they are, of course). Slightly drunk people tend to be fun and maybe not exactly more intelligent than the sober but they tend to go out of their comfort zone which enables them to entertain ideas that they normally wouldn't do. There are many stories about how people invent things when slightly drunk at the bar and write it down on a napkin.

laluser 5y ago

> 29% of our sample reported they had taken a drug test for a programming-related job Wow, That seems so high. I don't know anyone in my circle of friends who was drug tested. Although, we are all on the west coast.

ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
I took one for both of my corporate jobs, and that was over thirty years ago. Not new.
- conductr 5y ago
  That’s a pretty old sample. The war on drugs was full throttle 30 years ago. Boomers were the millennials and the greatest generation had all the real power. Their straight laced policies were on everything. These days it’s 50/50 for me. Depending on how conservative the corp culture is. But I work in finance and could literally embezzle their money. I’m actually surprised when i don’t get drug tested.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
    The funny thing is, I worked for a defense contractor for my first job, and looked like Cousin Itt. They never drug tested me.
computershit 5y ago
It is extremely common for more enterprisey jobs, or anything dealing with finance or gov. I wouldn't expect many smaller orgs or startups on the west coast to test very much. Most regular smokers I know just use fake piss to get around it.

tra3 5y ago

I can't even focus/code after 1 beer. I can't imagine what cannabis would do.

GrumpyNl 5y ago
Totally different substance.
- tra3 5y ago
  Agreed. I can't anything cognitively difficult when I am any kind of intoxicated.
lambic 5y ago
In my twenties I did some of my best work after a few beers, as long as you define "best work" as "innovative code that works well but is mostly incomprehensible when you come back to it 6 months later"
- tra3 5y ago
  This is a normal occurrence for me when I'm sober too :D

sporedro 5y ago

For me it really depends on how much I smoke and what the task is. If I’m trying to learn new tech and implement something new I’m weed dosnt help. If it’s coding in a language I already know beyond the absolute basics and I smoke a reasonable amount it actual makes me feel more engaged. Of course 10 bong rips or something wouldn’t be good, but a certain amount is great once in a while. As for alchahol after about 1 beer I lose all motivation to do anything and think clearly.

nothrowaways 5y ago

> "... 35% of our sample has tried programming while using cannabis, and 18% currently do so at least once a month..." Selection bias.

Sebb767 5y ago
Is it? It seems like you're comparing your anecdotal evidence against their (at least somewhat) scientific survey, which makes it more likely that you experience selection bias.
- nothrowaways 5y ago
  I don't think a sample with 35% positive sample is representative of the population.

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BXLE_1-1-BitIs1 5y ago

Looking at the jerk off code in some highly revered and critical software, it wouldn't surprise me if the writers were on LSD or meth.

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darepublic 5y ago

for me weed is definitely an impediment to coding, even more so than alcohol

assbuttbuttass 5y ago

I always find it is more difficult to program while under the influence, I tend to make more typos and small mistakes. Doesn't stop me though.

awestley 5y ago
This is the most realistic answer here.

TrippinTraveler 5y ago

Anecdotal but I'm a "programmer" at BigTech™ and smoke all day every day, and at this point I can't tell if it helps me or hinders me, but when you smoke all the time, most of these stories you are hearing about in the comments don't happen. At this point in my life, it's just a little "pick me up". It's by no means a micro dose as I probably smoke a gram or 2 a day. But when you live high it's a different kind of beast. I'll probably stop one day, but at the moment I don't see a reason to. Maybe it helps, maybe it doesn't, but I like being high and at this point I am addicted for sure anyway.

veidelis 5y ago
It's just lovely to hear how honest you are about your "situation". I enjoy smoking occasionally. I would say that sometimes I dismiss my thoughts too quickly when I'm sober, and rarely engage in thought process about particular details too intensively when I'm a bit off the ground. Otherwise it's great no matter what's being done, just need to be active.
- TrippinTraveler 5y ago
  Thanks, hopefully I am being honest with myself. I think weed can be very different for different people. Also it's not really mentioned here but Sativa and Indica strains also can make a difference as well as the THC % and method of consumption. I vape half a bowl from my Pax 3, I am in Canada so it's legal and we have THC % labels, I typically go for 25%+ which is not the "cheap stuff". I'd say if someone smoked my stuff with me at 9 AM, who doesn't normally smoke, it would probably knock them out for a few hours. But for me, it's like booting up in the morning. Nobody has ever mentioned or asked if I am high because I am more "normal" high than sober. Although I haven't been "sober" (clean for 4+ weeks) in many years, so I admit I have slightly lost perspective. It also has other effects on my life, such as my total loss of recalling my dreams, although I can tell they still occur, I just can't recall them at all.
  - shaky 5y ago
    You sound very much like me. Totally happy with my usage, and a chronic user that smokes 2-3 times per day reaching about a gram. It helps with empathy, it helps with creative flow, it helps with many things, but there are downsides of course. From August to December I took a break and it was immensely useful for perspective and for resetting my brain. My dreams were extremely vivid and rich, and going back to smoking was like rediscovering pot when I was 16. T breaks are indeed the key as GP pointed out.

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emrex 5y ago

The only time that canabis helps me personally at work is when I am almost at a burn out. Smoking on the weekend (not while working) it gives me a fresh start the next week, well rested. Never helped me to be a better developer while high, actually for me it is the oposit.

jsscss 5y ago

A+ wordplay in the title of the actual survey.

stef25 5y ago

Used to smoke daily for 20+ years. Nobody should kid themselves that pot makes you "stupid", for lack of a better term. Also puts me in a really bad mood the next day - short tempered, even aggressive. On rare occasions it does help with brainstorming, looking at things differently. But mostly it's good for forgetting about your day and just going to bed.

tata71 5y ago
Smoking (carcinogens, lowered blood oxygen) makes you stupid.

micromacrofoot 5y ago

I've vaped marijuana every night to sleep for the past 3 years or so... beats the pants off of any other insomnia med I've tried and it certainly takes the edge off of pandemic stress. As a weird side-effect it occasionally makes me want to work more, because an idea will hit me as I'm high. 50% of the time it's actually a really good idea. The effects on creativity are so apparent, I never would have guessed before trying it. I'm very diligent with not partaking during normal working hours though, my worst nightmare is having to debug something time-sensitive while high... it absolutely does not seem like a good time.

honkycat 5y ago

I love smoking weed. I smoke pretty much every day. Just a little bit, a puff on the vape pen to get my groove going after work. I find it USELESS for problem solving or productivity, but hey: I don't need to be productive 24 hours a day. I just want something to take the edge off while I play a strategy game or fart around on a game prototype. I NEVER do it during work or when I have to drive. I started smoking weed when I was 16. I remember it was New Years day and the cool older kids from the nearby city took a liking to me and offered to smoke with me. We all got high, and it was extremely fun. Still friends with those people today. They all did quite well for themselves. It was my rebellion growing up in a small town where there wasn't really much to rebel against. I had good parents and a good family. Little did I know my dad was also toking... Then I went from my small town to the big city for college, and life got really hard. I didn't have the money to pay for weed anymore, and my mental health wasn't great due to all of the stress of college and work, so I stopped for around 6 years. Then, about 3 years ago, I moved to a state where it as legal, and the first thing I did was buy some weed just to have the fun experience of purchasing it legally. And I smoked it. And I discovered something! It wasn't just youthful rebellion, or following along with the cool kids, or anything like that. I actually really enjoy the feeling of being high! It makes me feel calm and relaxed. And that is a good thing! Doing drugs is amoral[0]. There is this puritanical vein through US society that altering your state of mind, and making yourself feel good is a BAD thing. It even extends to coffee and caffeine sometimes. But altering your state of mind is not inherently wrong! Clearly, it can sometimes be used as a crutch for avoiding other pain in your life. I am sure we have all seen it. But the same can be said of video games, and television, and even exercise when overdone. If it doesn't have any other effect on your life, doing a drug is fine. - 0: Legal, not funding drug lords. I avoid illegal drugs for this reason.

stareblinkstare 5y ago
> not funding drug lords. I avoid illegal drugs for this reason. I hate to break it to you... [Edit: it's best if I expand this comment. The people who currently sell "legal" weed whitewashed illegal operations and coordinated it with lawmakers to put them at the top. Chinese, oddly enough, play a big part at this, since we're on an anti-China bend right now it might be useful to know. This whole legal drug thing... no, it doesn't exist. Anyone thinking otherwise needs to get a wake up call. You're supporting massive drug lords that wear suits and work alongside law enforcement.]

pipthepixie 5y ago

What about common nootropics people take to get into 'programmer flow', like nicotine, lions mane, choline, caffeine, theanine, etc Surely they're more effective than cannabis, which typically makes everything feel great, but in a sober frame of mind, and on hindsight, seem trivial and over-hyped when sober. I've tried various nootropic 'blends' (stacks) over the years and they've all been great. Cannabis has its uses, like experiencing the various vibes and feel of a new city for the first time, or making a snowman when it's snowing, but it's not some panacea that makes you super-productive. Not saying nootropics are a panacea either. You have to have the base multiplier before using nootropics, and already be in a flow state before getting any leverage from them. They don't automatically make you more productive or creative.

bostonsre 5y ago
Yea, I'm useless on weed and feel slower for a day or two afterwards but have had luck with nootropics. Just a warning about nicotine tho, it works well for me but it is addictive and I feel dumber for a couple days after stopping. Nicotine and substances like adrafinil almost feel like overclocking my brain.
pvarangot 5y ago
I read there's some research on Lion's mane, and there's a lot about caffeine and theanine but none of this are magic productivity pills. Like it's not that the concentration and productivity effects are obvious and reproducible among all humans. Caffeine has the "keep you awake thing" that cocaine also has and it's pretty reproducible but in most studies I've read about caffeine and L-theanine the flowy non-jittery productive state or any cognitive enhancement are spotty. I think the other problem with cannabis as a workday desk-job productivity enhancement substance that you are not mentioning is its interaction with other drugs and the unpredictable and really deep tolerance buildup. Like giving an average someone a curve of how much they need to smoke to get the same "effect" among weeks or months is probably really hard.
- abacadaba 5y ago
  after seeing some fresh lion's mane at [fancy supermarket] for the first time, I'm convinced it's reputation is just because it looks and feels soft and squishy like a brain. still take some of course, yolo

marcodiego 5y ago

Well, and sometimes just maybe. When people feel like that and… but it is not always. Just a feeling that sometimes and just not always. But people do get the feel, and it is not the same thing but not always too. And it is great and good. /s

2-718-281-828 5y ago

> Such cannabis usage, however, is in conflict with anti-drug poli- cies currently enacted for many software engineering jobs: 29% of our sample reported they had taken a drug test for a programming- related job, a hiring practice that may limit developer application pools. What? 29% ... seriously? That's outrageous.

sheepybloke 5y ago
I've had to take one for a job because it was a government contractor position. I wonder if that's related to why the response is higher?
- 2-718-281-828 5y ago
  that would be the only reason coming to my mind but then that sample would be quite biased. I never heard of that being a thing ever for dev positions.
sophacles 5y ago
A really really large number of programmers work for places like government contrators, banks, and insurance companies - the types of places that have blanket drug policies for all employees. There's probably a lot more companies that have such policies but they aren't enforced (unless something bad happens requiring it) because insurance gives discounts for having the policy, but thye will lose employees if they start enforcing it in a serious way.

Overtonwindow 5y ago

I work in government, and I smoke just about every day, all day. From a lifetime of trauma and PTSD, depression, and anxiety, NOTHING has been able to hold a candle next to the mental relief I get from just a little marijuana. It’s not for everyone, and although I’ve abstained many times, for me, it’s been a lifesaver.

neveradmitmyid 5y ago

I've been a heavy, 1 oz. of Indica a week smoker for decades, while being an extremely productive lead and principal software engineer on dozens of highly visible tech products. I am part of a heavy smoking, high tech collective of startup and career research individuals from companies people use everyday. I start my day with a combination of THC and caffeine, which folds into a deep work and research focus lasting the entire day. Over time, fellow high tech heavy smokers have identified one another, forming a moderately secret heavy smokers network that support one another in non-legal places, sometimes meet at big conventions, or we realize a number of us are at an airport at the same time and all meet in the smoker's den.

criticaltinker 5y ago
Wow an ounce per week is such a heavy intake, have you noticed any negative impacts for example to your lungs or teeth? Do you prefer smoking over edibles because of the instant rush versus a slow ramp up?
GordonS 5y ago
Have you considered d switching to vaping? It's so much more efficient that you'd likely only use 1/2 oz, or maybe even 1/3 oz.
- gime_tree_fiddy 5y ago
  The efficiency, the dosage limitation and convenience is amazing, and its been a a few months when I smoked a joint. But I still find the joint to be better experience, not sure why, maybe the trace amounts of CBD.
  - MisterTea 5y ago
    smoking always trumps dry vape, oil, wax, and edibles. I've found joints to be the easiest but least efficient way to smoke (its hard to charge a smoker with paraphernalia for having papers if you also carry a bag of tobacco). bowls are better but have to be cleaned. bongs and bubblers are top dog but they are bulky and even harder to clean than bowls.

beiller 5y ago

Smoking helps me through the "grindy" parts of programming, like you have a set goal in front of you with many small tasks and the way they all fit together can be held in your mind in one go. When it comes to idea deadlock, like no architecture is a good fit and you just need to choose the best of the bad paths, cannabis can hinder me greatly. I work on many side projects with a toke or two.

jMyles 5y ago

Since we're all sharing our anecdotes... I'm in a someowhat rare position of wanting to consume (and particularly smoke) more cannabis, especially during the work day, but I refrain because of the "anxiety" or "paranoia" it causes. I use quotes because these phenomena aren't precisely anxiety or paranoia, and after-the-fact, I'm almost always thankful for the reflection that they provide. Has anybody found a way to increase intake and keep it regular over the long-term amidst these pain points?

ranprieur 5y ago

I use cannabis for creativity and motivation, in both writing fiction and playing piano. I can't prove that it gives me better ideas, but looking back from a state of sobriety, I believe that it does, and certainly I've been more productive high than I ever was sober. The catch is that I take frequent breaks. My current rule is, for every session, I have to go one calendar day without using it at all. This also keeps my tolerance low, so I only use about a gram a month.

Slavebot00 5y ago

This should be in the "Any excuse to get loaded.", department.

coffeeyesplease 5y ago

I'm a programmer (cto these days) and a skateboarder (kind of c'os age is not just a a number) and I've always been in awe of people who smoke weed and are able to engage in either activity and yet I do have friends capable of such. This is not a lie :-) I've seen it with my own eyes. What amazes me is how good they are at it. If, by contrast, I did same I would end up hurt or fired :-)

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stevenjgarner 5y ago

I would proffer that the recruitment bias for this survey renders its results dangerous. I would proffer further that programmers at large do no use cannabis and the "true" conclusion for such a study might well be the exact opposite of the authors. The recuitment basis for the survey is not random and is only amongst a very small subset of candidates the authors considered "ethically permitted" (specifically from GitHub, the University of Michigan and social media). So probably few enterprise programmers and few non-US participants, etc.. In other words not the majority of programmers. "We now present indirect evidence that our participants, while not a random sample, are similar in many ways to previous random samples or studies. A true random sample would not have been ethically permitted, but we gain confidence in our results’ generalizability by contextualizing participants’ gender, age, and employment. ... our study population by recruitment pool (e.g., how they were contacted to participate in this study)... from GitHub ... from the university ... and social media" - page 4, https://arxiv.org/pdf/2112.09365.pdf https://arxiv.org/pdf/2112.09365.pdf A more meaningful lead-in survey would have been to ask programmers from all sources if they are subject to any form of drug-testing. Perhaps they should have selected a less clickbaity title for their study: A Survey of [Ethically Permitted USA] Programmers' Cannabis Usage, Perception, and Motivation

bl4ckm0r3 5y ago

Always enjoyed but in small amounts and weak power. If it's only coding i can definitely see good impact on my performance but having meetings really really bring out the worst side (boredom) of meetings. Small joint with a bit of hash and coffee is the breakfast of the champions!

ok_dad 5y ago

I used to vape full spectrum THC+CBD cartridges and other forms of "vape juice" ("sugar", "oil", etc. are in that category) and consume THC+CBD edibles all day long, every day (except when I had to drive somewhere, I would stop for 4-6 hours or more prior to the trip), for about 2-3 (maybe 4?) years when I was in a legal state, but then I had to move to a non-legal state and since I have a kid it's no longer possible for me to use any weed (don't want to lose him to the system). I miss it so much, I was so much less stressed and calm with weed, and I was much more focused on work and I slept better. Now, I basically have to take shitty OTC sleep drugs and drink a pot (haha) of coffee a day in order to survive, and I yell way too much at my kid and get too angry at work. I wish we could just legalize it everywhere (fat chance of that happening) and make it like tobacco and alcohol, both of which are way worse for you than a daily weed habit.

rajin444 5y ago
That’s weird - I had to go off weed during a highly stressful period of my life. It temporarily made me forget about how stressful things were but then it all came crashing back after it wore off. I didn’t have time to process the stress sober. I’ve heard it’s very useful for extremely traumatic or temporarily stressful incidents but I found the opposite for chronic stress.
- ok_dad 5y ago
  I’m an anxious person and it helped me a lot. I think it really depends on the individual because my wife just gets more stressed and anxious on weed, but for me it’s a miracle drug. In any case, I’m okay sober but I would love to at least have weed occasionally during large levels of stress. I would never be one of those people who suggest weed is great for everyone, just like alcohol is okay for some folks but for others the negatives are greater than the positives. If government would get out of the way and let us all decide what we prefer, and allow us get high quality drugs from a reliable and tested source, then I think each person would be better served by that than the government being our mommy and daddy.
phonethrowaway 5y ago
The farm bill made all hemp derived products legal federally at long as they contain only trace amounts of Delta 9 THC. Delta 8 and THC-O/acetate are legal. Not as strong, slightly different, but it gets the job done... kinda. Check it out... if you can. Check your state laws.

irthomasthomas 5y ago

This seems like a good place to drop a cool tip I learned recently. You can cure a weed overdose (the whitey) quickly with black pepper. Sniff it for instant relief, or swallow some whole corns. You can pop a few peppercorns pre-emptively too before you indulge. No more paranoia or anxiety.

remram 5y ago

I remember that survey from April. Another of those IRB-waived studies, with interesting questions such as "do you use other substances such as cocaine". Admitting to crimes was not enough to warrant IRB review... The survey also asked for detailed demographic data (well enough to de-anonymize IMHO) -- age, gender, income, field, highest degree... The link to the form to enter the drawing for $100 gift cards at the end was also dead (https://twitter.com/remram44/status/1379071856326684678 https://twitter.com/remram44/status/1379071856326684678) Not to put the results into questions, only to echo the recent Princeton mishaps I guess.

phendrenad2 5y ago

Weed doesn't help me program at all. It just conspires with my ADD to ensure that I have a really fun time playing video games. :) However, it does help with a lot of ancillary things: Helps me relax and reduces physical stress and tightness, helps me sleep, helps me enjoy workouts more (dunno how that one works). I've basically stopped doing weed altogether though, except on holidays and vacations when I really feel comfortable forgetting all responsibility for awhile.