6 ms·

We know that natural immunity (don’t forget it’s not forever - it doesn’t protect against sufficient mutations) is going to happen so the idea that it isn’t rec

We know that natural immunity (don’t forget it’s not forever - it doesn’t protect against sufficient mutations) is going to happen so the idea that it isn’t recognize or wasn’t recognized is incorrect. What we are concerned about is how many people have to die from a preventable disease while this herd immunity naturally comes to bear.

WillPostForFood 5y ago
It isn’t recognized in the sense that you can show a vax card to get in a restaurant or on a flight, but not proof of previous infection.
- monopoledance 5y ago
  In Germany you can. I am sure that's true for many regions. However, the granted protection status doesn't last as long as full vaccination.
- zorpner 5y ago
  First, this is not totally accurate -- you can board flights with literally no proof of anything, and international travel often does permit an affidavit of prior infection. Second, just get a vaccine, jfc. Been infected? Great, now you're even more immune. Do one easy thing for your fellow humans. Can't? Plenty of documentable, obtainable exceptions. Won't? Fine. Don't avail yourself of the luxuries which are the result of humans working together to build something. Easy.
  - colordrops 5y ago
    Why not base policy on science and data rather than an apeal to "unity"
- lovecg 5y ago
  I believe some countries do recognize it (Germany maybe?)
  - brazzy 5y ago
    Yes, definitely the case in Germany.
  - ulric260 5y ago
    Yes, in EU people who have recovered from Covid get the EU digital certificate. https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/coronavirus/eu-digital-covid-certificate/ https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/coronavirus/eu-d...
    - laurent92 5y ago
      But France revoked the Passe Sanitaire and mutated it into a Vaccinal Pass, meaning you can’t get it using a PCR test or a previous infection, only the vaccine will be accepted.
      - WastingMyTime89 5y ago
        You need to get one booster shot after your infection in France to get a pass (instead of two shots for the usual vaccination course). That has always been the case.
        laurent92 5y ago
        The prime minister announced 2 days ago that the Passe Sanitaire will be changed into a Passe Vaccinal, meaning PCR tests won’t be able to get it.
        ulric260 5y ago
        In France you get a pass for ~6 months after covid recovery, then one booster shot is indeed required. But with vaccination, you get a pass for ~7 months, then (from Jan 2022) you also need a booster shot... https://www.gouvernement.fr/info-coronavirus/pass-sanitaire https://www.gouvernement.fr/info-coronavirus/pass-sanitaire
        deleted 5y ago
- staticassertion 5y ago
  Perhaps to discourage 'covid parties' or other purposeful contractions of the virus.
- rossdavidh 5y ago
  As far as I know the US is the only country that for some reason doesn't think it matters if you are recovered. Israel, EU, others all seem to recognize it. Why the US does not, is not clear to me.
  - elzbardico 5y ago
    The problem in the US is that it became a political issue and both sides don’t want to lose face by ceding even an inch
    - rossdavidh 5y ago
      True, about so many issues.
    - bmeski 5y ago
      Other nations aren’t owned by pharmaceutical companies.
- orwin 5y ago
  In my country it is if the infection is less than 6 month ago. And count as a first vaccination, so you can only take half a moderna after a prior infection.
- HWR_14 5y ago
  Which makes sense for a lot of reasons. 1) Allowing a prior infection will lead to idiots having COVID parties to get tested. 2) Natural immunity is more variant-specific. 3) Tests are binary, but viral load determines natural response. The amount of viral load and natural response you need to fight off future infections and the amount to trigger a positive result are almost certainly not the same concentration. 4) Tests, unlike needles in the arm, have false positives.
  - peteradio 5y ago
  - jdhn 5y ago
    >2) Natural immunity is more variant-specific. How is it more variant specific? The gene therapy shots only expose you to the spike protein, whereas natural infection gives you exposure to the whole virus. As we see with omnicron, this variant has evolved so that the spike protein is the most changed aspect about it.
    - HWR_14 5y ago
      The spike protein, even through Omicron, is the most stable part. Your stupid body can pick up on any feature of the virus, and any other identifier is worse than the spike protein against the natural waves of different variants. Even if Omicron is worse than against natural immunity (something I would not concede, but will for the sake of this sentence) you're likely to have gotten COVID more times naturally than someone who was vaccinated over the past year. Since there is literally no downside, get the fucking vaccine.
      - walterbell 5y ago
        > Since there is literally no downside There are downsides for recipients of bad batches. Public VAERS data is reporting inter-batch variances where 90+% of adverse side effects are happening in 5% of batches. VAERS data is noisy, see site videos for more discussion, but extreme inter-batch variances across all three vendors is not expected. EU regulators have previously expressed concern about inter-batch manufacturing variance. http://howbad.info http://howbad.info
nradov 5y ago
The virus is so contagious that there will be no significant herd immunity effect. Pretty much everyone will eventually be infected (if they don't die from something else first). https://www.sciencealert.com/delta-variant-means-we-can-rule-out-herd-immunity-says-astra-zeneca-developer https://www.sciencealert.com/delta-variant-means-we-can-rule...
- rich_sasha 5y ago
  Measles is way more infectious and does achieve herd immunity at around 95% vaccinated. Question is, can we get 95% immunity to Covid, as opposed to “benign but still infectious”.
  - raxxorrax 5y ago
    The measles vaccine more or less protects you for the rest of your life, although a single refreshment might be sensible. Flu and covid vaccines would need constant adaptation and you will never reach that in a globalized world.
    - rich_sasha 5y ago
      Yes, plus the Covid vaccine doesn’t seem to give much immunity against infection and spreading, so the whole game is off.
pbreit 5y ago
What can prevent it? Certainly not the current vaccines.
- kube-system 5y ago
  Current mRNA vaccines are highly effective at preventing severe disease and death of all widely circulating variants, including omicron
  - walterbell 5y ago
    > highly effective Varies by # of months since last dose, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSZMtSPX3iE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSZMtSPX3iE Dec 20, https://www.euronews.com/next/2021/12/20/omicron-3-vaccine-doses-are-not-enough-to-stop-the-new-covid-variant-warns-biontech-ceo https://www.euronews.com/next/2021/12/20/omicron-3-vaccine-d... > COVID-19 vaccines will not be enough to withstand the Omicron variant, warned the CEO of BioNTech, the German company behind the mRNA vaccine produced with Pfizer. "We must be aware that even triple-vaccinated are likely to transmit the disease…It is obvious we are far from 95 per cent effectiveness that we obtained against the initial virus."
    - kube-system 5y ago
      I was responding to the above question about preventing death not infection.
  - zerocount 5y ago
    He's talking about preventing infection.
    - kube-system 5y ago
      >> What we are concerned about is how many people have to die from a preventable disease > What can prevent it? Thus my answer.

WillPostForFood 5y ago

It isn’t recognized in the sense that you can show a vax card to get in a restaurant or on a flight, but not proof of previous infection.

monopoledance 5y ago
In Germany you can. I am sure that's true for many regions. However, the granted protection status doesn't last as long as full vaccination.
zorpner 5y ago
First, this is not totally accurate -- you can board flights with literally no proof of anything, and international travel often does permit an affidavit of prior infection. Second, just get a vaccine, jfc. Been infected? Great, now you're even more immune. Do one easy thing for your fellow humans. Can't? Plenty of documentable, obtainable exceptions. Won't? Fine. Don't avail yourself of the luxuries which are the result of humans working together to build something. Easy.
- colordrops 5y ago
  Why not base policy on science and data rather than an apeal to "unity"
lovecg 5y ago
I believe some countries do recognize it (Germany maybe?)
- brazzy 5y ago
  Yes, definitely the case in Germany.
- ulric260 5y ago
  Yes, in EU people who have recovered from Covid get the EU digital certificate. https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/coronavirus/eu-digital-covid-certificate/ https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/coronavirus/eu-d...
  - laurent92 5y ago
    But France revoked the Passe Sanitaire and mutated it into a Vaccinal Pass, meaning you can’t get it using a PCR test or a previous infection, only the vaccine will be accepted.
    - WastingMyTime89 5y ago
      You need to get one booster shot after your infection in France to get a pass (instead of two shots for the usual vaccination course). That has always been the case.
      - laurent92 5y ago
        The prime minister announced 2 days ago that the Passe Sanitaire will be changed into a Passe Vaccinal, meaning PCR tests won’t be able to get it.
      - ulric260 5y ago
        In France you get a pass for ~6 months after covid recovery, then one booster shot is indeed required. But with vaccination, you get a pass for ~7 months, then (from Jan 2022) you also need a booster shot... https://www.gouvernement.fr/info-coronavirus/pass-sanitaire https://www.gouvernement.fr/info-coronavirus/pass-sanitaire
        deleted 5y ago
staticassertion 5y ago
Perhaps to discourage 'covid parties' or other purposeful contractions of the virus.
rossdavidh 5y ago
As far as I know the US is the only country that for some reason doesn't think it matters if you are recovered. Israel, EU, others all seem to recognize it. Why the US does not, is not clear to me.
- elzbardico 5y ago
  The problem in the US is that it became a political issue and both sides don’t want to lose face by ceding even an inch
  - rossdavidh 5y ago
    True, about so many issues.
  - bmeski 5y ago
    Other nations aren’t owned by pharmaceutical companies.
orwin 5y ago
In my country it is if the infection is less than 6 month ago. And count as a first vaccination, so you can only take half a moderna after a prior infection.
HWR_14 5y ago
Which makes sense for a lot of reasons. 1) Allowing a prior infection will lead to idiots having COVID parties to get tested. 2) Natural immunity is more variant-specific. 3) Tests are binary, but viral load determines natural response. The amount of viral load and natural response you need to fight off future infections and the amount to trigger a positive result are almost certainly not the same concentration. 4) Tests, unlike needles in the arm, have false positives.
- peteradio 5y ago
- jdhn 5y ago
  >2) Natural immunity is more variant-specific. How is it more variant specific? The gene therapy shots only expose you to the spike protein, whereas natural infection gives you exposure to the whole virus. As we see with omnicron, this variant has evolved so that the spike protein is the most changed aspect about it.
  - HWR_14 5y ago
    The spike protein, even through Omicron, is the most stable part. Your stupid body can pick up on any feature of the virus, and any other identifier is worse than the spike protein against the natural waves of different variants. Even if Omicron is worse than against natural immunity (something I would not concede, but will for the sake of this sentence) you're likely to have gotten COVID more times naturally than someone who was vaccinated over the past year. Since there is literally no downside, get the fucking vaccine.
    - walterbell 5y ago
      > Since there is literally no downside There are downsides for recipients of bad batches. Public VAERS data is reporting inter-batch variances where 90+% of adverse side effects are happening in 5% of batches. VAERS data is noisy, see site videos for more discussion, but extreme inter-batch variances across all three vendors is not expected. EU regulators have previously expressed concern about inter-batch manufacturing variance. http://howbad.info http://howbad.info

nradov 5y ago

The virus is so contagious that there will be no significant herd immunity effect. Pretty much everyone will eventually be infected (if they don't die from something else first). https://www.sciencealert.com/delta-variant-means-we-can-rule-out-herd-immunity-says-astra-zeneca-developer https://www.sciencealert.com/delta-variant-means-we-can-rule...

rich_sasha 5y ago
Measles is way more infectious and does achieve herd immunity at around 95% vaccinated. Question is, can we get 95% immunity to Covid, as opposed to “benign but still infectious”.
- raxxorrax 5y ago
  The measles vaccine more or less protects you for the rest of your life, although a single refreshment might be sensible. Flu and covid vaccines would need constant adaptation and you will never reach that in a globalized world.
  - rich_sasha 5y ago
    Yes, plus the Covid vaccine doesn’t seem to give much immunity against infection and spreading, so the whole game is off.

pbreit 5y ago

What can prevent it? Certainly not the current vaccines.

kube-system 5y ago
Current mRNA vaccines are highly effective at preventing severe disease and death of all widely circulating variants, including omicron
- walterbell 5y ago
  > highly effective Varies by # of months since last dose, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSZMtSPX3iE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSZMtSPX3iE Dec 20, https://www.euronews.com/next/2021/12/20/omicron-3-vaccine-doses-are-not-enough-to-stop-the-new-covid-variant-warns-biontech-ceo https://www.euronews.com/next/2021/12/20/omicron-3-vaccine-d... > COVID-19 vaccines will not be enough to withstand the Omicron variant, warned the CEO of BioNTech, the German company behind the mRNA vaccine produced with Pfizer. "We must be aware that even triple-vaccinated are likely to transmit the disease…It is obvious we are far from 95 per cent effectiveness that we obtained against the initial virus."
  - kube-system 5y ago
    I was responding to the above question about preventing death not infection.
- zerocount 5y ago
  He's talking about preventing infection.
  - kube-system 5y ago
    >> What we are concerned about is how many people have to die from a preventable disease > What can prevent it? Thus my answer.