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Tesla remotely unlocks Model 3 car, uses smart summon to help repo agent
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- causi 5y agoShould this be illegal? No, probably not. Is this the future I want to live in? Also no.
- ahoka 5y agoYes, it should be. You pay extra in your fees to cover the possible loss of the entity giving you a loan, but they want the extra and not having to deal with the possible loss. They should just suck it up TBH.
- stevewodil 5y agoSeriously, they chase down normal cars for repossession I don’t feel strongly that this is all that different than it getting towed from your driveway. Would I be really annoyed if it was my car? Yeah, but at the same time it’s up for repo either way. We already knew that Tesla HQ can control the cars for service and such
- greenshackle2 5y agoNot only that, some lots that sell to high risk buyers (e.g. buy here pay here) already install GPS devices on their cars: https://passtimegps.com/industries/bhph/ https://passtimegps.com/industries/bhph/
- _Microft 5y ago> Is this the future I want to live in? For me neither. As much as I admire Musk for being the driving force behind the progress that his companies are making for electric mobility and especially space launch but a guy who fetishizes a dystopian cyberpunk future and works on hooking up brains to computers might have slightly different vision for the future than you and me.
- ryanmercer 5y agoIt's already the future you live in. Repo agents, for decades, will roll up on a vehicle and hook it up to a tow truck and take off. People go out of their way to hide their vehicles, or block them in with other vehicles, when they haven't paid their loan and know their vehicle is now eligible for repossession. This just makes it safer for the repo agents, because they can recover the vehicle faster and don't have to risk some nutjob running out of a house/apartment/office with a bat/gun/knife trying to confront them because someone was like "Dave, someone's hooking your car up to a tow truck".
- dylan604 5y ago> Is this the future I want to live in? Also no. No need to fret the future my friend. The future is now. This dystopian future people keep fearing is happening now. It is the present reality.
- gretch 5y agoNo it’s really not. This is hyperbole. Things are literally better now than ever before. More access to food, healthcare, and literacy on average for everyone in the world. More protection of basic human rights on average for everyone in the world. If now is the dystopian future, when in the past would you like to time travel to? Before or after polio vaccine? Gay rights? Before/after Abolition of slavery (in select countries)?
- dylan604 5y agoIt's must be sad for people to go through life with no ability to appreciate comedy whether it is good or bad. To think everything is so draconian in that it must be exactly how you want it to be is just further proof that it's darker than you want to believe.
- gretch 5y agoI appreciate comedy, you're just not funny. You think comedy is just saying things that are false? Oh look, I'll just say the opposite of everything - haha wit!
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- aneutron 5y agoWhile this is an "interesting" story, I'd love to get some verification on it. It sounds plausible, but almost illegal ? I'm in EU so don't know how really things work over there, but I would assume Tesla would need a judicial order siding with the bank to be able to do this ? I mean it's probably not the wild west over there. Or is it ?
- k8sToGo 5y agoWe do not have Repo in EU like they do in the US.
- chrisseaton 5y agoAre you sure about that? I thought repossession of collateral from a defaulted loan is a basic part of cultures with both common and code law. https://www.frenchentree.com/french-property/law/so-you-cant-pay-your-french-mortgage/ https://www.frenchentree.com/french-property/law/so-you-cant... What happens if you don't pay your mortgage where you live?
- k8sToGo 5y agoThen you have to go through some government entity for repossession etc. But for sure we don't have it where some tow truck driver comes to your property pulling out the car.
- wasmitnetzen 5y agoUsually, in the end, it's a government agent coming to you and repossessing things, not an employee of a random company.
- tonyedgecombe 5y agoThis doesn't fall under the remit of the EU.
- chippiewill 5y agoI think the mention of a bank is misleading. I think in this case the owner organised finance with Tesla directly. When he failed to pay Tesla on time they repo'd the car themselves.
- rvz 5y agoUnsurprising and seen here: [0] A text book definition of a backdoor. It is still not your car. It is still Tesla's. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26512855 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26512855
- jcims 5y agoFord Pass has the same capability. With self park it could even back out of a spot.
- knorker 5y agoNo, if you don't pay for it then it's the bank's car. It's like saying "the super stole my TV!!" when actually the super just let the police in with a search warrant, and they took the TV you stole down to the station.
- rvz 5y agoTesla still has remote access to the cars its has sold and can unlock them if the authorities request them to do so. If that is not a backdoor I don't know what is. Evidently, the car isn't yours, even though you have paid for it. Tesla still owns it.
- knorker 5y agoI didn't say there was no backdoor. Every locksmith in the world has the ability to bypass your lock (exaggeration). That doesn't make them the owner.
- rvz 5y ago> I didn't say there was no backdoor. You didn't need to and given that was already avoided here; it now has been admitted. Thus, it is by definition a 'backdoor' then especially a directly 'remote' one. It doesn't matter who it is, we just know that Tesla and many others have this ability directly; no locksmith needed or whatever. So the future is connected cars where not even you can fully control your own car and it is still 'owned' and can be externally controlled in the hands of the manufacturer, just like our phones. Since they are already giving out OTA updates to it. Dreadful.
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 5y agoWhen reading the tweet, I get the feeling that it is satire (kind of like the Onion). I am not aware that Tesla is directly financing the vehicles, so why would they hire a repo person to go repossess it? In addition, given the OTA update capabilities of Tesla, they could probably just remotely disable the car, and not have to worry about the expense of liability of a repo agent. In addition, the picture is weird, as if you had such full control of the car, why would you need to put a "boot" on the car to immobilize it, since it would make driving it back to Tesla harder. I am calling satire on the tweet, until further proof.
- cheschire 5y agoIndeed, Tesla’s own lending page seems to point to banks as lenders, not Tesla or a Tesla finance company. Perhaps I’m misunderstanding though, I’ve never looked deeply into this before. https://www.tesla.com/support/lending#additional-support https://www.tesla.com/support/lending#additional-support
- greatpatton 5y agoNot much into US law, but can someone tell us what is happening if you had personal possession of value in your car?
- LightG 5y agoThis is my problem with it. Not that payments shouldn't be kept up to date. But that it moves decision making on the issue to a corporate entity a million miles away and you can bet there won't be any accounting for personal situations, or admin errors, or anything else. Your car will just be gone. Sorry, f@ck tesla on this.
- fallingknife 5y agoIf lenders had to take "personal situations" into account no loans would be made. Anyone can come up with a sob story.
- adventured 5y agoThat's the purpose of allowing sob stories by people that advocate for that approach. The real idea is to choke the system to death and crash it de facto. That's how you get insane squatting laws where you can't remove people that are illegally occupying your property (house, apartment, etc) for years. The process becomes badly choked in the sob story process which the squatter takes advantage of. And very obviously all that would happen if you allowed the sob story process to become common in auto loans, is a huge backlog of people would become delinquent and abuse it, knowing they can drag out the consequences for a very long time.
- alkonaut 5y agoIf this wasn't preceded by months of angry letters explaining when and why the security would be repossessed, then yes. Shitty. However, if the owner was made aware that the vehicle would be reposessed, then obviously there isn't much else the lender can do. The owner has (hopefully) already dodged several opportunities to simply drop the vehicle off.
- 5y ago
- Jaruzel 5y agoThe main issue here I guess, is Tesla assisting the bailiffs. Bailiffs (here in the UK) have certain legal rights to enter and repossess your house and/or remove property you haven't fully paid for. They are granted this right via a case-by-case court order. If Telsa are also granted the rights within the court order to assist the bailiffs, then presumably it would be a fully legal action. At the end of the day, you sign a contract wherein you agree to keep up payments on an item, and if you don't the item will be repossessed. If you don't like those terms, don't get stuff on payment plans.
- staticassertion 5y agoI agree, though I think that ideally companies are advocates for their customers. For example, companies have to turn information over to courts, but they can push back on some, and publish transparency reports for others. Yes, they have to comply with the law, but imo a company has an obligation to advocate for their customers.
- simonh 5y agoTesla were helping the legal owner of one of their vehicles take possession of it. If you were the legal owner, wouldn't you want that?
- staticassertion 5y agoThe legal owner and the Tesla customer don't have to be the same person.
- scoopertrooper 5y agoWell, technically, the bank owns the car till you pay it off. So, maybe they are advocating for their customers?
- simonh 5y agoI don't think that's quite right, you own the vehicle legally and you owe the bank the loan. However as soon as a repossession takes place the legal title to the vehicle does change.
- LightG 5y agoHoly sh!t ... reason 47 to not buy a Tesla.
- arendtio 5y agoIs 'buy' the correct verb in this context? I mean, if you would buy it in the traditional sense you wouldn't have any monthly payments you could miss and you would actually own the car. But this case seems a bit different.
- hatchnyc 5y agoSo…in case you plan to not pay for it but still keep it anyway? I am really struggling to understand the mindset here of what I assume are mostly well paid professional software developers. If I defaulted on a car loan (I don’t know the details exactly off the top of my head, but this entails more than just missing a payment) I’d be quite ashamed of myself and return the car myself with an apology. I cannot understand the mindset of someone who would feel justified keeping the car, much less getting angry at the method used by the bank to reclaim their property. It’s not like this is a cheap car either where you’re threatening someone’s livelihood who is not going to be able to get to work.
- sschueller 5y agoIt has happened that cars and even homes have been "repoed" as a result due to a mistake by a bank.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- gruez 5y ago> It has happened that cars and even homes have been "repoed" as a result due to a mistake by a bank. So the obvious conclusion is to... eliminate the "repo" mechanism entirely, on the off chance it might get abused/mistakenly used?
- selfhoster11 5y ago
- throw8932894 5y agoWhat is legality of making alternative firmware for Tesla? I guess they could argue with safety. Does the car loose road worthy certification, if its software is altered?
- roastedpeacock 5y agoCan't comment on certifications but aftermarket performance upgrades that are not from Tesla already exist through hardware modification with some attempt at the "cat and mouse" game of detection and evasion one might expect from such activities. Haven't hard of any lawyers getting involved though. I would assume if you do something dumb with the electronics or software you wold probably be found liable in terms of insurance.
- taylorportman 5y agoDefinitely needs to be a thing. idk if it has been on HN yet but there is a opengarages.org site that has a nice ebook if anyone is interested.
- prmoustache 5y agoAs a bicycle and old motorcycles user I am gobsmacked that so much people accept that the vehicule they are using is connected or regularly phone home to the manufacturer. I guess if you share all your life on facebook and instagram, why shouldn't you also give away all your errands to any third party. Is there at least a license agreement you are showned at and have to agree to upon delivery? Can you operate those vehicules offline by choice?
- grishka 5y agoAlso, what happens if you remove the SIM card or the cellular antenna?
- rndgermandude 5y agoThere was a story of some rental car that couldn't be unlocked again on some remote parking lot, because it was out of range. The customer did nothing wrong. They ended up having to tow the car in the end, if I remember correctly. With actual possession of vehicles going down, in favor of leases (or leases-to-buy) and short term rentals/"ride-sharing", and with ever more permanent monitoring, the future seems to go into a direction where you're required to have a constantly available data connection in your car back to the car company or lease company, and they will be able to remotely disable access if you don't pay up. And they will probably consider loss of such connection as "tampering" and disable the cars until it gets online again.
- grishka 5y agoThere's a difference between owning something or renting it. When you rent something, there's a contract you sign that specifies what you can and can't do. You generally expect the owner to have the technical capability to enforce the contract in case you breach it. But when you own it, then no one else should retain any sort of control over it, period. It's yours only. (You obviously don't own something if you got it on a loan, not until you paid it off.)
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- bell-cot 5y agoIs this only news "because Tesla"? User jcims mentioned Ford's having the same feature. Probably GM's do, too. For years, I've seen occasional news stories about car dealers adding similar features to vehicles which they sell to buyers with sketchy credit.
- ethagknight 5y agoI feel pretty confident that GM’s Onstar is primarily a service oriented for GMAC/ally so they can locate and limit speeds and unlock vehicles they hold title to but have not received payment for. Oh and sure they give you a big blue button to punch in case you have a flat tire, for peace of mind. They advertised the speed limiter capability “in case of a vehicle theft” and repo situation (driving a vehicle not paid for) isn’t too far removed from theft
- fxtentacle 5y agoThe advantage of autonomous cars is that they can resist their owner. That enables big cost savings for everyone (insurance, manufacturer, rental, leasing, repo). Well, everyone except for the "owner".
- shadowgovt 5y agoWho is legally the owner when a car is repossessed? I'd say autonomous vehicles are pro-social machines. They will, in general, act to follow the rules established, ideally more often than a "dumb" car operated by a human. Given how many traffic accidents are human caused, that's sort of the point of the entire exercise.
- fxtentacle 5y agoI would argue that before it is successfully repossessed, the old person is still the owner. They'd also be the one liable if something goes wrong. So we have disconnected the liabilities of ownership from the advantages of ownership. In the past, this type of disconnect has led to companies exploiting it for profit.
- themitigating 5y agoIf you financed the car the bank owns it. It's not an opinion.
- fxtentacle 5y agoDepends on your specific contract if you're borrowing it from the bank until it's paid off or if the car is collateral but otherwise fully yours.
- knorker 5y agoI would not argue against it being yours before reposession. But whose car is it after a legal repossession has started? I would argue that once the repossession clause in the contract has been activated (criteria has been met and bank decides to exercise the right) then from that decision forwards the bank is now the owner. Possession is not 9/10 of the law if a contract says control reverts to bank under a condition that's clearly been violated. This is not a game where if just hide for X time then contracts expire. It's not a game of tag, where "it doesn't count" until a reposession has been completed "fairly". You don't need to give someone a fair chance to avoid the consequences in a contract.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- sschueller 5y agoWill Mercedes or another brand clone a key for the repo man without a court order?
- scottlilly 5y agoYes. I was a repo man in the 1980s. When we'd get the repossession paperwork from the bank, we'd also get a copy of the car's title. We'd take that paperwork into a dealership and they would cut us duplicate keys.
- bluedino 5y agoThis is nothing compared to the tactics a "buy here, pay here" car lot will use.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- iRobbery 5y agoSo how does this change "Possession Is Nine-Tenths of the Law" :) five-tenths? :)
- xyst 5y agoWhy does Tesla even care if the car owner is delinquent on the bank note? At the time of the sale, Tesla was paid in full by the bank. Is Tesla trying to become the underwriter of future loans, and this is their way of testing their automated repossession process?
- oxymoran 5y agoThey don’t need to be the underwriter to affect the underwriting process. By enabling this feature, banks could be more willing to make loans to credit challenged people, thus rendering more Tesla’s on the road.
- oxymoran 5y agoYa’ll are overlooking the reasoning behind this for Tesla: this would make a bank more willing to give out a loan to nearly anyone, even with questionable credit, if the car assisted with its own repo. It’s a play to get more Teslas on the road.
- the_optimist 5y agoOnly in the same sense as making any usability improvement. Making car loans in general is also “a play to sell more cars.” There’s no point to such interpretation.
- 323 5y agoThe police should also have the capability of remotely stopping a running away car. Hopefully this feature will be standardized.
- jasonhansel 5y agoYou mean OnStar's "Stolen Vehicle Slowdown" feature?
- mschuster91 5y agoJesus no. The potential for abuse is just way too high. We can't even trust cops to not stalk random women [1] or to not beat up their family [2] - giving them even more possibilities to conduct crimes is not a good thing. Not to mention: what the police can exploit, so can attackers. [1]: https://psmag.com/news/stalker-cop-police-protection-danger-crime-harassment-93995 https://psmag.com/news/stalker-cop-police-protection-danger-... [2]: https://sites.temple.edu/klugman/2020/07/20/do-40-of-police-families-experience-domestic-violence/ https://sites.temple.edu/klugman/2020/07/20/do-40-of-police-...
- defaultprimate 5y agoI agree that this capability should never, ever be in the hands of the state, but don't extrapolate isolated instances and debunked statistics about the police as truths. Your own article demonstrates one of the major flaws of the domestic violence statistic, but doesn't discuss the most egregious methodological flaw: the criteria used for domestic violence, which includes shouting in the cited study. Cops are sourced from the general population, so incidence rates need to be compared to the general population, and you'll find that police have significantly lower "negative" behaviors compared to the general population in virtually all aspects. That doesn't mean they should be allowed to remotely disable your car though.
- mschuster91 5y ago> Cops are sourced from the general population They are notably not. Usually, immigrants are drastically under-represented compared to general population (at least in Germany, you have to hold German or European citizenship to join the police force). > so incidence rates need to be compared to the general population Oh hell no. Police officers act on behalf of the government and with powers that are both far greater than those of ordinary people and not immediately appealable. As a result of that, police officers in Germany are actually held to extremely high standards by law (§34 BeamtStG - https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/beamtstg/__34.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/beamtstg/__34.html) and receive at the very least two years of training. I won't say our police are perfect (because they aren't, they still are a bunch of bullies), but they are orders of magnitude better than the trigger happy, barely educated (seriously, 360 hours of training?! - https://www.nola.com/news/crime_police/article_9dd5d48b-2152-5d24-a4a0-bc11128d0c0f.html https://www.nola.com/news/crime_police/article_9dd5d48b-2152...) morons that make up the US police force.
- Quindecillion 5y agoHas anyone "jailbroke" a Telsa to remove this type of stuff?
- _fat_santa 5y agoIt's two sides to the same coin. The stuff that makes this possible is the same stuff that makes all the futuristic tech on a Tesla possible. So you could theoretically jailbreak it (Rich Rebuilds probably figured it out by now) disabling the stuff that would allow this to happen would also disable half the futuristic features on your car.
- bitcharmer 5y ago> disabling the stuff that would allow this to happen would also disable half the futuristic features on your car. Why? When you jailbreak an iPhone you don't loose features.
- darknavi 5y agoNo but you (most of the time) lose the ability to get software updates which are a pretty significant feature of Teslas. I also wouldn't be surprised if Tesla locked out your sim if they found you to be abusing it so you'd have to try to get a new one (not sure how that works with eSims).
- JohnWhigham 5y agoThis is the future we chose. I hope everyone here that owns a Tesla is proud of that future.
- travisporter 5y agoI had a medical bill for a small amount like $60 sent to collections because they didn’t have the right address. Never called or emailed me. Judging by the comments here, the healthcare co would be well within its rights to pickpocket me.
- soared 5y agoWhat was the outcome? I am currently in the same situation.
- travisporter 5y agoI finally got my mail from the new renter and called and chewed them out. Had to pay the original bill. Edit I chewed out the billing dept not the renter lol
- wbc 5y agohe declared bankruptcy
- notreallyserio 5y agoWith insufficient information we must always defer to the corporation or the government. Might makes right.
- beeboop 5y agoGarnishing wages is very much a real thing.
- my_usernam3 5y agoUgh I just had the same exact experience... right as I'm trying to get a mortgage. I wish they would have just pickpocketed me and not try to murder my credit over like $100.
- maxdo 5y agoto every person writing here "is this the future we will be living in"? So do you want legal owners hire people who will spy on you, ask family members where is the car, etc... After they'll find the car their life will be more complicated , they need to make a key. Coordinate if this is the right car. If car is locked/has custom security, lots of noise in neighborhood due to alarm, so basically everyone around your block is stressed because you didn't pay. And that's fees people who pay the bills will cover. Do you think this kind of services are cheap? If they can't return the car, that will be also split between future lease agreement. They will be included one way or another in your loan/monthly payments. Doing so , they basically decreasing the price of such event at least 5x.
- izacus 5y agoSo at what point will Teslas also start snitching on their own owners and other drivers for driving too fast, being in the wrong place at the time a crime happened and reporting copyrighted music played in the wrong country? Is there already a design doc for that somewhere in Teslas ticketing system?
- exadeci 5y agoThe car was technically Tesla's property they contracted the repo agent because the owner stopped paying the finance so as long as you haven't finished paying your car to Tesla it makes sense for it to still be their property. The issue would be if they start doing this for illegal parking or similar stuff.
- test6554 5y agoOnce all cars are self-driving, I doubt they will exceed the speed limit by much. But perhaps speed limits will increase in some places.
- izacus 5y agoWell, the autopilot cameras can easily report OTHER drivers not driving correctly.
- tonyedgecombe 5y agoTo be honest I would quite like it if cars couldn't speed whilst passing my house.
- unbanned 5y agoJust checked, there's ability to phone home given particular driving conditions for safety.
- mellavora 5y agowell, they are planning on offering their own car insurance program. Funny thing is, the initial sell of Tesla was 'high performance', the kind of driving which tends to encourage high-risk behaviours. so now it is "you can buy this great car with all this high-performance stuff, but we'll know every time you use it and dock you on insurance rates to compensate"
- gonzoflip 5y agoI think the personal freedom and privacy implications of self driving cars with centralized communication are rarely talked about. What happens when your vehicle decides you can't travel to an area of civil unrest (for your safety), or refuses to drive you to the gun store?
- test6554 5y agoRamming into protesters vehicle package should be selected at time of purchase and will cost an extra $74.99.
- gonzoflip 5y agoHmmm, I feel like this reply is making light of other's deaths. I was more talking about the ability to attend a protest. I believe in personal freedom, as well as personal responsibility.
- beervirus 5y ago
- gonzoflip 5y agoI don't really understand the connection to some sort of hypothetical situation about protesting in the street. My position is that I want my vehicle to start when I turn the key, and drive to where I take it. I think people are giving up a lot more freedom than what they are actually thinking about when they buy these cars that are able to be remotely controlled or disabled.
- malfist 5y agoAre you seriously suggesting that protesting is an execution worthy offense?
- xanaxagoras 5y ago
- aasasd 5y agoA bunch of years ago, when Tesla and Google's car were only just starting and it was fashionable to discuss the implications of self-driving cars, one dude wrote (approximately): > People are discussing: if the car has to choose between running over a pedestrian and sacrificing the driver's life, what should it choose? Well it's obvious: the driver pays for the car, so they wouldn't buy a car that kills them in case of an incident. I guess now that we're headed straight into cyberpunk, the driver's wish turns out to be not that important. The overriding concern is actually: what will make the company look better. If swerving into trees wins points for Tesla for saving pedestrians' lives, so be it.
- 015a 5y agoI'm pretty strongly of the position that high levels of self-driving are impossible for artificial intelligences to attain, because they're built by corporations. Driving is VERY risky, and involves an irreducible assumption of both risk and liability on behalf of the driver. Humans are natural risk-takers. Corporations are not; and any artificial intelligence a corporation produces is always, at some level of meaningful abstraction, a projection of their own values.
- Datenstrom 5y agoFrom Tesla's release of their full self-driving beta and its performance in a recent CGP Grey video where it successfully navigates the most dangerous road in America[1] I think a lot of people are going to have to eat their hats on this stance very soon. I consider myself bullish on this tech, and I have worked closely with autonomous robotics, but I didn't expect it this soon. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6tgmGqXysM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6tgmGqXysM
- wolrah 5y ago> where it successfully navigates the most dangerous road in America Twistiest, maybe. Most dangerous, not even close unless you or someone driving towards you do something dumb. Historically Autopilot's weak spots have been crappy/ambiguous road markings, low speed corners on high speed roads, and large vehicles stopped on/across the road. This video hit none of those points. The lane markings are clear, the posted limit is low, and large vehicles aren't even supposed to be there.
- AdrianB1 5y agoA few years ago Netflix had a problem processing the payment for my subscription. They charged me again, also had problems, charged again. 3 times, every time the money left my account as the bank confirmed. A few days later, with no warning, they suspended my account while I was watching a movie. I don't like the power these companies have in relation with their customers. The customer has no power at all, in most cases. In my case I had to ask the bank to revert the charges and close my Netflix subscription, but it was just ~ $30-40 at stake, not a $50,000 car. How many times cars are repossessed without any fault of the customer?
- dangus 5y ago"Tesla hired him" Does this mean that Tesla is the owner of the loan? I'm skeptical that Tesla will be helping random banks get their money back like this, but it sounds like this is direct financing through Tesla. Also, keep in mind that this is just a tweet with a picture of a car on a trailer. This is absolutely not verified as true. Tesla nor the car's owner have verified or commented on this from what we can see in this article. Literally just some guy who says "a friend told me."
- jmkni 5y agoI remember watching a Defcon talk years ago by Barnaby Jack (RIP) who warned of this exact scenario, but in a medical sense. ie. you take out a loan to pay for some sort of medical implant, you miss your payments, and they can turn it off. I can't find the exact video, if anyone has I'd love a link!
- hereforphone 5y agoDo you want to lose your potential customer base? Because this is how you lose your potential customer base.
- gregoriol 5y agoKnowing that Musk had the project to let your car drive as an automatic taxi without you, this is not surprising. We will have to get used to cars doing stuff without their driver.
- sangnoir 5y agoHelpful mental model to help you overcome bias: imagine for a moment, that instead of Tesla, it was that company you hate doing this. You know, that privacy-invading company that's just the worst - would you still feel the same?
- teawrecks 5y ago"They mentioned once FSD is better, they’ll probably just have the cars drive themselves back to Tesla in this situation. Technology is amazing." That's the happiest I've heard someone be about their friend's job being automated away :D
- nowherebeen 5y agoCan't wait for someone to introduce a dumb electronic car.
- hollosi 5y agoProbably fake news. Tesla cars are not licensed for operation without a control of a driver. It's unlikely Tesla (the company) would take the financial responsibility to cause any damage or injury during an unlicensed operation without a driver. Straight from the Model S manual: "Model S may not detect certain obstacles, including those that are very narrow (e.g., bikes), lower than the fascia, or hanging from the ceiling. As such, Summon requires that you continually monitor your vehicle's movement and surroundings while it is in progress, and that you remain prepared to stop the vehicle at any time using the Tesla mobile app, by pressing any button on the key fob, or by pressing any Model S door handle." https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/Model_S_release_notes_7_1_1_us_cn.pdf https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/Model_S_release_no...
- wilde 5y agoLowering friction amplifies your ability to make mistakes. Yes, this is legal. But the increase in scale of these actions is probably bad. I’d hate to see what Hertz would do with this tech. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hertz-customers-allege-false-arrests-lawsuit/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hertz-customers-allege-false-ar...