9 ms·

This is news just because it's an Apple device being used for something that was already trivially possible. GPS trackers designed to be magnet-attached to a c

by kemayo 5y ago

This is news just because it's an Apple device being used for something that was already trivially possible. GPS trackers designed to be magnet-attached to a car which report their location via cell signal cost ~$20 on Amazon. You then tend to need to pay for either a SIM card or a subscription to the device maker's service -- bringing you up to about the cost of an AirTag. These are much harder to detect, as you might imagine. The Apple device does try to make itself less useful for abusive purposes. Nearby iPhones will notify you if there's an AirTag following you. Apple released an Android app to scan for them (manually -- it'd probably be nice if they released something that did the same passive scanning as iPhones get, but there's battery trade-offs there, and obviously most people won't have that app). AirTags will also beep if they're separated from their owner. In fact, this is news we're hearing about because of the steps Apple took to make it harder to use these devices for bad purposes. The tweet author got a warning about the device following them. It's tricky to make something that lets you find where you dropped your keys while walking the dog that can't also be used for nefarious purposes.

raydev 5y ago
> This is news just because it's an Apple device being used for something that was already trivially possible. > GPS trackers designed to be magnet-attached to a car which report their location via cell signal cost ~$20 on Amazon. You then tend to need to pay for either a SIM card or a subscription to the device maker's service -- bringing you up to about the cost of an AirTag. So you're saying Apple made it even more trivially possible. Not only does it cost the same, it now requires less effort.
- kemayo 5y ago
  I'm saying anyone who wanted to do this already could, and Apple's version is worse at being abusive than what they could already do. Sticking trackers onto the cars of people parked near bars isn't really a thing you do on a whim.
- madeofpalk 5y ago
  In one way. In another way, the only way the tweet author knew was because Apple alerted them to the fact that they were being tracked. Other trackers would not do that. It seems Apple actively put effort into thwarting this kind of use.
  - kadoban 5y ago
    They did the bare minimum so that once in a while creepy stalkers will get noticed. Should we give them an award?
    - drekk 5y ago
      Nah, just recognize that the tech already was out there, for a lower cost, in a form factor that won't notify you you're being tailed This isn't a new thing and Apple takes steps that, for example, Tile doesn't to prevent their products from being used for nefarious purposes
      - kadoban 5y ago
        I do recongnize that. Does only the first person selling a dangerous product deserve scorn? "X did it first!" is the excuse of a toddler. They've also made it easier than gps trackers (no sim card needed), probably safer for stalkers (does Apple have a way to report AirTags used for crime and/or find out who owns it?) and it's more effective than Tile. It also favors their own ecosystem, because only iphone owners get warned. (no I don't consider beeping enough, finding something that beeps intermittently is notoriously difficult).
        lazide 5y ago
        Beating up on Apple for making something LESS able to be abused and more transparent/understandable just seems disingenuous though? The difference in level of abuse for something that will actively draw attention to itself after some period of time vs something of the same cost that was previously widely available and was more subtle and would not, is pretty big. And it is in the favor of Apple not being abusive or favoring abuse.
323 5y ago
> AirTags will also beep if they're separated from their owner. Why didn't the AirTag beep in this situation? She said she went around the car trying to find it.
- matthew-wegner 5y ago
  They begin beeping at a random time between 8 and 24 hours after separation, not immediately. Probably it was still too soon?
  - kemayo 5y ago
    It's a tricky timing to work out, I guess. You want to warn people about trackers near them, but you don't want someone e.g. leaving their tagged bag in their locker to cause loud beeping after 30 minutes.
- evan_ 5y ago
  I’m sure it’s trivial to physically disable the beep speaker.
  - Hamuko 5y ago
    Well, anything that involves precise drilling isn't really what I'd call "trivial". But it's definitely doable.
  - concinds 5y ago
    Indeed, a Google search is enough to find guides, and I assume most bad actors would be aware of this.
danesparza 5y ago
"GPS trackers designed to be magnet-attached to a car which report their location via cell signal cost ~$20 on Amazon. You then tend to need to pay for either a SIM card or a subscription to the device maker's service -- bringing you up to about the cost of an AirTag. These are much harder to detect, as you might imagine." Yes ... but Apple has built a mesh network to report the position of people who don't want to be tracked ... and clearly are being tracked. And it's very possible my own iphone is being used in the service of an evil actor. That feels ... different. Ethically -- if not technically. "It's tricky to make something that lets you find where you dropped your keys while walking the dog that can't also be used for nefarious purposes." This seems awfully blithe. I suspect you aren't a woman. Or that you don't have daughters old enough to live on their own.
- kemayo 5y ago
  > Yes ... but Apple has built a mesh network to report the position of people who don't want to be tracked ... and clearly are being tracked. Sure, but you could say the same thing about the cell network. Same argument applies to the cell GPS trackers I mentioned. > And it's very possible my own iphone is being used in the service of an evil actor. You can turn if off if you want. `Settings > Apple ID > Find My > Find My iPhone` and uncheck `Find My network`. I do appreciate that the power of defaults means that you personally disabling it doesn't really do much to the overall situation, though.
godelski 5y ago
While you're correct, I think there is something to be said about the popularization of the technology. Most people aren't aware of GPS trackers other than movies and think they are much harder to come by. AirTags are also less nefarious by nature. If you get caught with a GPS tracker on your person that's pretty suspicious. If you're caught placing an AirTag on someone's car it's easier to pretend you dropped it and are looking for it. I'd also say that the popularization increases the chance of use in the moment. You already have the AirTag and can decide do that tracking. With the GPS you have to do forward planning. I do think there's a difference here that could lead to more people being tracked. Crimes of opportunity are different than planned crimes, and I assume much more common. It is good that Apple is notifying users when being followed. But it seems that too many false positives are getting people to ignore the messages. Though this is a hard thing to combat.
- yawaramin 5y ago
  > If you're caught placing an AirTag on someone's car it's easier to pretend you dropped it and are looking for it. That doesn't make any sense. If someone catches me placing an AirTag in the undercarriage of a car, it's pretty difficult to pretend that I dropped it there.
  - godelski 5y ago
    Depends how you were caught. On your back reaching up? No. On your knees? Yeah. Consider that this tag was placed in the wheel well, which doesn't require getting on your back and would only take a few seconds. It isn't like someone is there for a significant period of time. Especially since you can then produce said AirTag after inquiry and people will generally believe the claim even if suspicious. All you have to do is create _reasonable_ doubt. That's different than _certain_ doubt. This is because weird stuff like that is much more common than nefarious acts (though we remember nefarious acts more easily). I think you are likely overly estimating yours and the average person's awareness. Scam artists and magicians exploit these kinds of effects frequently and with an extremely high success rate.
    - 5y ago
pengaru 5y ago
> This is news just because it's an Apple device being used for something that was already trivially possible. Or it's news because unlike GPS trackers, AirTags create the ability to be psychologically abusive to victims by attaching them to cars or dropping them in purses at little cost, risk, or effort. Wanna take a guess as to how many assholes out there just want to make a mouthy cunt from the bar lose sleep vs. actually steal a car or abduct someone? My personal guess is there's many orders of magnitude more of the former, and AirTags appear to be a perfect tool for that.
- diebeforei485 5y ago
  Why exactly is it lower effort than a cellular GPS tracker from Amazon? They're around the same size, and roughly the same cost.
  - pengaru 5y ago
    > Why exactly is it lower effort than a cellular GPS tracker from Amazon? They're around the same size, and roughly the same cost. Apple is going out of its way to assist in making AirTags discoverable while physically hidden and anonymous. Some random cellular GPS tracker from Amazon gives the tracking capability, but how does one make it seem threatening while highly discoverable? You'd have to leave it out where physically visible, making the whole charade substantially less convincing.
  - WaxProlix 5y ago
    How is a common consumer-grade device not less effort than intentionally purchasing, setting up, and deploying a custom spy gadget? They're totally different levels of effort and investment (dollar-'cost' being a small part of it). With an airtag you can even get plausible deniability in a lot of cases.
  - pmontra 5y ago
    When you open a GPS tracker you find a SIM and that's enough to identify the owner in any country that requires an ID to get a SIM. AirTags are anonymous by design AFAIK. Furthermore the owner is spared with the burden of getting a SIM (time and cost), ID or not.
briffle 5y ago
And both should be simple for the police to link to the owner, if they are reported. Maybe a bit less so for a SIM card, but that AirTag is registered with someone’s phone
- edgedetector 5y ago
  "So not even Apple knows the location of your AirTag or the identity of the device that helps find it."
  - nickphx 5y ago
    neither of those statements say anything about identifying who purchased the air tag and what apple account is tied to the air tag.. you do realize that for someone to be able to find the location of the airtag, it has to be tied to their icloud account? the airtags have a serial number. it's trivial for apple to identify what icloud account is associated to the tag by serial number..
  - ted_dunning 5y ago
    Correct. And if you read that carefully, it does not say that Apple doesn't know who the owner is. The owner, in this case, is not whose phone reported the tag.
jjallen 5y ago
Trivially possible? I wouldn’t know how to use or where to buy a GPS tracker. I’m sure it’s not super hard. But not as easy as an airtag. But now anyone with an iPhone can buy a $25 device and track anyone. I would guess that Airtags are also smaller than gps trackers.
- number6 5y ago
  I thought that too. Google GPS tracker and the first result are trackers for about $30. They come with a SIM Card and and a Online Service for $5 so you can track the tracker. Also comes with an alarm if someone removes the tracker. This is really trivial...
  - jjallen 5y ago
    But still not as trivial as an Airtag. You need an iPhone and an Airtag. That’s it. No extra service. No waiting non-Prime or non-Apple shipping for a tracker to arrive. The first results in Google for me are $50 and are about 10-20x the size as an Airtag. Also multiple parts.
    - mthoms 5y ago
      And, the units off Amazon have to be purchased with a credit card + shipped to your house. AirTags can be bought with cash much more anonymously. (Though I’m not sure how/if Apple can identify the associated iPhone if presented with a warrant.)
      - tekknik 5y ago
        Walk into a hobby shop, buy a GPS tracker for a RC/drone, pay cash…
- ralfd 5y ago
  > where to buy a GPS tracker. Have you heard about amazon.com? There are multiple around $20 devices there.
- 5y ago
NicoJuicy 5y ago
> In fact, this is news we're hearing about because of the steps Apple took to make it harder to use these devices for bad purposes. I've got Android. Where do i see a warning? Ps. No, people with Android will not have a Apple app installed. It's the wrong solution for that problem.
- nomel 5y ago
  How is it the wrong solution? An app is required for any of this to work/be detected. Either everyone jumps on the same bandwagon (Google joins Apple or something), or you install the app for the bandwagon that exists.
  - NicoJuicy 5y ago
    ? No. An app must be installed to detect abuse, who would install that preventively?... For setup, sure that's possible as an app. But my comment was "where do i see a warning", as in : detect abuse. A protocol should be implemented, so it can be implemented on a more broad os level. In reality: no one will install an app for a potential abuse and i can't imagine someone would think otherwise. The people that are getting conned are obviously not the users configuring the AirTag.
    - nomel 5y ago
      > An app must be installed to detect abuse, who would install that preventively?... > A protocol should be implemented, so it can be implemented on a more broad os level. I don't understand, this is what I'm saying. "Either everyone jumps on the same bandwagon (Google joins Apple or something), or you install the app for the bandwagon that exists." You need the software installed. Either everyone jumps on the same bandwagon and everyone provides the app/system service with their phone, for the same protocol, or everyone has to install an app/system service that supports whomever's specific protocol. This has been the case long before apple, with Tile, Samsung, etc. > who would install that preventively? With the unfortunate consequence of causality and forward direction of time, everyone that has a phone that doesn't already have it as a system service, until everyone jumps on the same bandwagon and agrees to supporting one specific protocol. What's the alternative here? Regulate all tracking devices so they can't be sold until all phones can detect them?
kuon 5y ago
I am wondering: - Would a GPS tracker placed at this position be able to catch the GPS signal? If I understand it correctly, an airtag communicate via bluetooth and would get the location from a phone in range? - An airtag do not require a SIM card. Are they easily traceable or is it hard to get to the owner?
- deleted 5y ago
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- myself248 5y ago
  A GPS tracker in the wheel well would have no problem getting signal, GPS receivers have gotten spookily sensitive in recent years. And that's a genie that won't go back in the bottle.
- UncleEntity 5y ago
  > An airtag do not require a SIM card. Are they easily traceable or is it hard to get to the owner? I turned my laptop into a functional airtag one bored day. Not sure how to get the data from apple with a Mac because it requires a bit of hackery due to them not having a public API but it can be done using their email app IIRC. They store the encrypted location data on their servers so without the private key nobody can read it which also means nobody can determine who owns the tracker — I’d imagine they could use access logs or something to figure out who’s been reading the public key which the tracker broadcasts. TFA could have not thrown the airtag away, read the serial number off it and used that as a “clue” methinks. I actually want to get an esp-32 and turn that into a airtag but I’m lazy and would also need to buy a Mac so…though I’m not too lazy to code up a little daemon which will set off the beeper on every airtag in range once I get ahold of one.
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jpalomaki 5y ago
I see some parallels here to cases like "Google Glassholes"[1] or the "Sony see through camera" [2]. Both turned to be PR problems, even though technically the companies did not do anything that was not already otherwise possible. [1] https://nypost.com/2014/07/14/is-google-glass-cool-or-just-plain-creepy/ https://nypost.com/2014/07/14/is-google-glass-cool-or-just-p... [2]https://bettermarketing.pub/sonys-see-through-camera-disaster-cost-them-100-million-f277609b26a https://bettermarketing.pub/sonys-see-through-camera-disaste...
28uwedj 5y ago
In Australia to activate a sim you need a form of ID, if you were to put a sim card in a GPS tracker you could easily be identified. air tags not so much.
- hrrsn 5y ago
  Easy, use a foreign SIM and roam. This is pretty common for IoT devices.
  - Piskvorrr 5y ago
    Still, even if not linked through purchase, the device will communicate back to a number controlled by you, fairly directly. A lot of obvious and hard-to-mask effort to emulate something that's provided as a COTS package with far harder tracking back to you. TL;DR: this was possible previously, for fairly determined and advanced users; now it's available to anyone on a whim.
deleted 5y ago
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mgh2 5y ago
Great for business' network effects: you have to have an iPhone 11 or above (U1 chip) to avoid being tracked Behind its "privacy" PR, Apple is secretly nudging people to buy more iPhones again... Past tricks to make people upgrade: 1. Slowing down: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-51413724 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-51413724 2. "Other" storage: https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/666721 https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/666721
- alphabettsy 5y ago
  It’s doesn’t require the U1 chip.
  - mgh2 5y ago
    3 days: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPqiQiKN284 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPqiQiKN284 I see: https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/apple-airtag-tips https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/apple-airtag-tips Not so good for Android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.apple.trackerdetect&hl=en_US&gl=US https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.apple.trac...
    - alphabettsy 5y ago
      What’s your point? AirTags don’t require the U1 chip. It is required for precision finding. Seems like I’m entertaining a bad faith argument.
      - mgh2 5y ago
        My point is that people without iOS 14.5 (older iPhones), iphone 11 or later will either be forced to upgrade or switch from Android (bad app reviews) to avoid being tracked - a dirty trick by Apple to gain customers. Some people might brush notifications - either be 3 days as the reporter suggested (self tag) or right away as OP (stranger's tag) Just a hypothesis, but Apple has a history of doing this as seen in 1,2,3 above. Its PR is genius, always spinning the narrative. #3 update: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l3f1KrMQeo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l3f1KrMQeo
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by kemayo 5y ago

raydev 5y ago

> This is news just because it's an Apple device being used for something that was already trivially possible. > GPS trackers designed to be magnet-attached to a car which report their location via cell signal cost ~$20 on Amazon. You then tend to need to pay for either a SIM card or a subscription to the device maker's service -- bringing you up to about the cost of an AirTag. So you're saying Apple made it even more trivially possible. Not only does it cost the same, it now requires less effort.

kemayo 5y ago
I'm saying anyone who wanted to do this already could, and Apple's version is worse at being abusive than what they could already do. Sticking trackers onto the cars of people parked near bars isn't really a thing you do on a whim.
madeofpalk 5y ago
In one way. In another way, the only way the tweet author knew was because Apple alerted them to the fact that they were being tracked. Other trackers would not do that. It seems Apple actively put effort into thwarting this kind of use.
- kadoban 5y ago
  They did the bare minimum so that once in a while creepy stalkers will get noticed. Should we give them an award?
  - drekk 5y ago
    Nah, just recognize that the tech already was out there, for a lower cost, in a form factor that won't notify you you're being tailed This isn't a new thing and Apple takes steps that, for example, Tile doesn't to prevent their products from being used for nefarious purposes
    - kadoban 5y ago
      I do recongnize that. Does only the first person selling a dangerous product deserve scorn? "X did it first!" is the excuse of a toddler. They've also made it easier than gps trackers (no sim card needed), probably safer for stalkers (does Apple have a way to report AirTags used for crime and/or find out who owns it?) and it's more effective than Tile. It also favors their own ecosystem, because only iphone owners get warned. (no I don't consider beeping enough, finding something that beeps intermittently is notoriously difficult).
      - lazide 5y ago
        Beating up on Apple for making something LESS able to be abused and more transparent/understandable just seems disingenuous though? The difference in level of abuse for something that will actively draw attention to itself after some period of time vs something of the same cost that was previously widely available and was more subtle and would not, is pretty big. And it is in the favor of Apple not being abusive or favoring abuse.

323 5y ago

> AirTags will also beep if they're separated from their owner. Why didn't the AirTag beep in this situation? She said she went around the car trying to find it.

matthew-wegner 5y ago
They begin beeping at a random time between 8 and 24 hours after separation, not immediately. Probably it was still too soon?
- kemayo 5y ago
  It's a tricky timing to work out, I guess. You want to warn people about trackers near them, but you don't want someone e.g. leaving their tagged bag in their locker to cause loud beeping after 30 minutes.
evan_ 5y ago
I’m sure it’s trivial to physically disable the beep speaker.
- Hamuko 5y ago
  Well, anything that involves precise drilling isn't really what I'd call "trivial". But it's definitely doable.
- concinds 5y ago
  Indeed, a Google search is enough to find guides, and I assume most bad actors would be aware of this.

danesparza 5y ago

"GPS trackers designed to be magnet-attached to a car which report their location via cell signal cost ~$20 on Amazon. You then tend to need to pay for either a SIM card or a subscription to the device maker's service -- bringing you up to about the cost of an AirTag. These are much harder to detect, as you might imagine." Yes ... but Apple has built a mesh network to report the position of people who don't want to be tracked ... and clearly are being tracked. And it's very possible my own iphone is being used in the service of an evil actor. That feels ... different. Ethically -- if not technically. "It's tricky to make something that lets you find where you dropped your keys while walking the dog that can't also be used for nefarious purposes." This seems awfully blithe. I suspect you aren't a woman. Or that you don't have daughters old enough to live on their own.

kemayo 5y ago
> Yes ... but Apple has built a mesh network to report the position of people who don't want to be tracked ... and clearly are being tracked. Sure, but you could say the same thing about the cell network. Same argument applies to the cell GPS trackers I mentioned. > And it's very possible my own iphone is being used in the service of an evil actor. You can turn if off if you want. `Settings > Apple ID > Find My > Find My iPhone` and uncheck `Find My network`. I do appreciate that the power of defaults means that you personally disabling it doesn't really do much to the overall situation, though.

godelski 5y ago

While you're correct, I think there is something to be said about the popularization of the technology. Most people aren't aware of GPS trackers other than movies and think they are much harder to come by. AirTags are also less nefarious by nature. If you get caught with a GPS tracker on your person that's pretty suspicious. If you're caught placing an AirTag on someone's car it's easier to pretend you dropped it and are looking for it. I'd also say that the popularization increases the chance of use in the moment. You already have the AirTag and can decide do that tracking. With the GPS you have to do forward planning. I do think there's a difference here that could lead to more people being tracked. Crimes of opportunity are different than planned crimes, and I assume much more common. It is good that Apple is notifying users when being followed. But it seems that too many false positives are getting people to ignore the messages. Though this is a hard thing to combat.

yawaramin 5y ago
> If you're caught placing an AirTag on someone's car it's easier to pretend you dropped it and are looking for it. That doesn't make any sense. If someone catches me placing an AirTag in the undercarriage of a car, it's pretty difficult to pretend that I dropped it there.
- godelski 5y ago
  Depends how you were caught. On your back reaching up? No. On your knees? Yeah. Consider that this tag was placed in the wheel well, which doesn't require getting on your back and would only take a few seconds. It isn't like someone is there for a significant period of time. Especially since you can then produce said AirTag after inquiry and people will generally believe the claim even if suspicious. All you have to do is create _reasonable_ doubt. That's different than _certain_ doubt. This is because weird stuff like that is much more common than nefarious acts (though we remember nefarious acts more easily). I think you are likely overly estimating yours and the average person's awareness. Scam artists and magicians exploit these kinds of effects frequently and with an extremely high success rate.
  - 5y ago

pengaru 5y ago

> This is news just because it's an Apple device being used for something that was already trivially possible. Or it's news because unlike GPS trackers, AirTags create the ability to be psychologically abusive to victims by attaching them to cars or dropping them in purses at little cost, risk, or effort. Wanna take a guess as to how many assholes out there just want to make a mouthy cunt from the bar lose sleep vs. actually steal a car or abduct someone? My personal guess is there's many orders of magnitude more of the former, and AirTags appear to be a perfect tool for that.

diebeforei485 5y ago
Why exactly is it lower effort than a cellular GPS tracker from Amazon? They're around the same size, and roughly the same cost.
- pengaru 5y ago
  > Why exactly is it lower effort than a cellular GPS tracker from Amazon? They're around the same size, and roughly the same cost. Apple is going out of its way to assist in making AirTags discoverable while physically hidden and anonymous. Some random cellular GPS tracker from Amazon gives the tracking capability, but how does one make it seem threatening while highly discoverable? You'd have to leave it out where physically visible, making the whole charade substantially less convincing.
- WaxProlix 5y ago
  How is a common consumer-grade device not less effort than intentionally purchasing, setting up, and deploying a custom spy gadget? They're totally different levels of effort and investment (dollar-'cost' being a small part of it). With an airtag you can even get plausible deniability in a lot of cases.
- pmontra 5y ago
  When you open a GPS tracker you find a SIM and that's enough to identify the owner in any country that requires an ID to get a SIM. AirTags are anonymous by design AFAIK. Furthermore the owner is spared with the burden of getting a SIM (time and cost), ID or not.

briffle 5y ago

And both should be simple for the police to link to the owner, if they are reported. Maybe a bit less so for a SIM card, but that AirTag is registered with someone’s phone

edgedetector 5y ago
"So not even Apple knows the location of your AirTag or the identity of the device that helps find it."
- nickphx 5y ago
  neither of those statements say anything about identifying who purchased the air tag and what apple account is tied to the air tag.. you do realize that for someone to be able to find the location of the airtag, it has to be tied to their icloud account? the airtags have a serial number. it's trivial for apple to identify what icloud account is associated to the tag by serial number..
- ted_dunning 5y ago
  Correct. And if you read that carefully, it does not say that Apple doesn't know who the owner is. The owner, in this case, is not whose phone reported the tag.

jjallen 5y ago

Trivially possible? I wouldn’t know how to use or where to buy a GPS tracker. I’m sure it’s not super hard. But not as easy as an airtag. But now anyone with an iPhone can buy a $25 device and track anyone. I would guess that Airtags are also smaller than gps trackers.

number6 5y ago
I thought that too. Google GPS tracker and the first result are trackers for about $30. They come with a SIM Card and and a Online Service for $5 so you can track the tracker. Also comes with an alarm if someone removes the tracker. This is really trivial...
- jjallen 5y ago
  But still not as trivial as an Airtag. You need an iPhone and an Airtag. That’s it. No extra service. No waiting non-Prime or non-Apple shipping for a tracker to arrive. The first results in Google for me are $50 and are about 10-20x the size as an Airtag. Also multiple parts.
  - mthoms 5y ago
    And, the units off Amazon have to be purchased with a credit card + shipped to your house. AirTags can be bought with cash much more anonymously. (Though I’m not sure how/if Apple can identify the associated iPhone if presented with a warrant.)
    - tekknik 5y ago
      Walk into a hobby shop, buy a GPS tracker for a RC/drone, pay cash…
ralfd 5y ago
> where to buy a GPS tracker. Have you heard about amazon.com? There are multiple around $20 devices there.
5y ago

NicoJuicy 5y ago

> In fact, this is news we're hearing about because of the steps Apple took to make it harder to use these devices for bad purposes. I've got Android. Where do i see a warning? Ps. No, people with Android will not have a Apple app installed. It's the wrong solution for that problem.

nomel 5y ago
How is it the wrong solution? An app is required for any of this to work/be detected. Either everyone jumps on the same bandwagon (Google joins Apple or something), or you install the app for the bandwagon that exists.
- NicoJuicy 5y ago
  ? No. An app must be installed to detect abuse, who would install that preventively?... For setup, sure that's possible as an app. But my comment was "where do i see a warning", as in : detect abuse. A protocol should be implemented, so it can be implemented on a more broad os level. In reality: no one will install an app for a potential abuse and i can't imagine someone would think otherwise. The people that are getting conned are obviously not the users configuring the AirTag.
  - nomel 5y ago
    > An app must be installed to detect abuse, who would install that preventively?... > A protocol should be implemented, so it can be implemented on a more broad os level. I don't understand, this is what I'm saying. "Either everyone jumps on the same bandwagon (Google joins Apple or something), or you install the app for the bandwagon that exists." You need the software installed. Either everyone jumps on the same bandwagon and everyone provides the app/system service with their phone, for the same protocol, or everyone has to install an app/system service that supports whomever's specific protocol. This has been the case long before apple, with Tile, Samsung, etc. > who would install that preventively? With the unfortunate consequence of causality and forward direction of time, everyone that has a phone that doesn't already have it as a system service, until everyone jumps on the same bandwagon and agrees to supporting one specific protocol. What's the alternative here? Regulate all tracking devices so they can't be sold until all phones can detect them?

kuon 5y ago

I am wondering: - Would a GPS tracker placed at this position be able to catch the GPS signal? If I understand it correctly, an airtag communicate via bluetooth and would get the location from a phone in range? - An airtag do not require a SIM card. Are they easily traceable or is it hard to get to the owner?

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myself248 5y ago
A GPS tracker in the wheel well would have no problem getting signal, GPS receivers have gotten spookily sensitive in recent years. And that's a genie that won't go back in the bottle.
UncleEntity 5y ago
> An airtag do not require a SIM card. Are they easily traceable or is it hard to get to the owner? I turned my laptop into a functional airtag one bored day. Not sure how to get the data from apple with a Mac because it requires a bit of hackery due to them not having a public API but it can be done using their email app IIRC. They store the encrypted location data on their servers so without the private key nobody can read it which also means nobody can determine who owns the tracker — I’d imagine they could use access logs or something to figure out who’s been reading the public key which the tracker broadcasts. TFA could have not thrown the airtag away, read the serial number off it and used that as a “clue” methinks. I actually want to get an esp-32 and turn that into a airtag but I’m lazy and would also need to buy a Mac so…though I’m not too lazy to code up a little daemon which will set off the beeper on every airtag in range once I get ahold of one.

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jpalomaki 5y ago

I see some parallels here to cases like "Google Glassholes"[1] or the "Sony see through camera" [2]. Both turned to be PR problems, even though technically the companies did not do anything that was not already otherwise possible. [1] https://nypost.com/2014/07/14/is-google-glass-cool-or-just-plain-creepy/ https://nypost.com/2014/07/14/is-google-glass-cool-or-just-p... [2]https://bettermarketing.pub/sonys-see-through-camera-disaster-cost-them-100-million-f277609b26a https://bettermarketing.pub/sonys-see-through-camera-disaste...

28uwedj 5y ago

In Australia to activate a sim you need a form of ID, if you were to put a sim card in a GPS tracker you could easily be identified. air tags not so much.

hrrsn 5y ago
Easy, use a foreign SIM and roam. This is pretty common for IoT devices.
- Piskvorrr 5y ago
  Still, even if not linked through purchase, the device will communicate back to a number controlled by you, fairly directly. A lot of obvious and hard-to-mask effort to emulate something that's provided as a COTS package with far harder tracking back to you. TL;DR: this was possible previously, for fairly determined and advanced users; now it's available to anyone on a whim.

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mgh2 5y ago

Great for business' network effects: you have to have an iPhone 11 or above (U1 chip) to avoid being tracked Behind its "privacy" PR, Apple is secretly nudging people to buy more iPhones again... Past tricks to make people upgrade: 1. Slowing down: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-51413724 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-51413724 2. "Other" storage: https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/666721 https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/666721

alphabettsy 5y ago
It’s doesn’t require the U1 chip.
- mgh2 5y ago
  3 days: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPqiQiKN284 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPqiQiKN284 I see: https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/apple-airtag-tips https://www.pcmag.com/how-to/apple-airtag-tips Not so good for Android: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.apple.trackerdetect&hl=en_US&gl=US https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.apple.trac...
  - alphabettsy 5y ago
    What’s your point? AirTags don’t require the U1 chip. It is required for precision finding. Seems like I’m entertaining a bad faith argument.
    - mgh2 5y ago
      My point is that people without iOS 14.5 (older iPhones), iphone 11 or later will either be forced to upgrade or switch from Android (bad app reviews) to avoid being tracked - a dirty trick by Apple to gain customers. Some people might brush notifications - either be 3 days as the reporter suggested (self tag) or right away as OP (stranger's tag) Just a hypothesis, but Apple has a history of doing this as seen in 1,2,3 above. Its PR is genius, always spinning the narrative. #3 update: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l3f1KrMQeo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l3f1KrMQeo

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