40 ms·

Windows 11 Officially Shuts Down Firefox’s Default Browser Workaround

715 points by beezle 5y ago

jhoelzel 5y ago
I have a feeling that MS is playing with fire again.... That every request made through the edge browser for a non local user is associated to his/her live ID is pure coincidence ;) Sometimes when I look into my dns logs, I cry a little bit inside too.
- Datagenerator 5y ago
  That's the moment you fire up Firefox without prefetch nor studies and enjoy the peaceful DNS logs without the constant telemetry calls to LinkedIn and to all interested 3rd parties, five eyes etc
  - jhoelzel 5y ago
    i thought that too! but firefox has different dns requests going to their servers as well.
    - no_time 5y ago
      On linux you can use IceCat. On windows, download simplewall and block pingsender.exe there. Should get rid of the queries if you combine it with userjs tweaking.
      - callamdelaney 5y ago
        Just setup pihole - you can run it on any server and use it as a local dns server. Probably somebody else has done the work to list these spammy domains.
        paulryanrogers 5y ago
        What about DNS over HTTPS?
        zamadatix 5y ago
        If you just want FF to not use it you can block "use-application-dns.net" which acts as a canary domain for it to disable DoH. If you want to block it from things you don't trust to have such methods (or always listen to them) you'll have to upgrade to a firewall that can filter outbound connections to IPs the client hasn't received a DNS response for or require use of an explicit HTTP proxy for outbound connectivity. Just blocking DNS can be a good middle ground for reasonable effectiveness without as much effort.
      - jhoelzel 5y ago
        thank you for the tip! I use an OpenWrt acces point that is on my desk and uses dnsblocking through blacklists. This way I have a wired and wifi network that block the most annoying stuff by default. It also integrates nicely with wireguard too.
      - bogwog 5y ago
        > On windows, download simplewall and block pingsender.exe there Even if that works, it'll likely get patched out eventually with a forced update. If you do insist on using Windows, an external firewall is the only way to be sure. But even that isn't foolproof since another update may decide that your Windows license isn't valid unless the analytics server is reachable.
      - boogies 5y ago
        Or just use LibreWolf, it's just FF with uBlock and disabled tracking out of the box (available for GNU, macOS, and MSW iirc).
    - deepbluev7 5y ago
      There is a German article, that goes in depth on how to disable pretty much all of them and explains what they do: https://www.kuketz-blog.de/mozilla-firefox-datensendeverhalten-desktop-version-browser-check-teil20/ https://www.kuketz-blog.de/mozilla-firefox-datensendeverhalt... A few of them actually do make sense for a normal user (i.e. the Wifi portal stuff). But you can disable it if you spend some effort on it or you can also use an alternative build of Firefox without it. Not great, but also not terrible imo. Sorry, that I have no English source.
Decabytes 5y ago
I wonder how many people will actually switch away from Windows this time. It’s interesting to see people saying they will stick with Windows 10, when the same thing was said about the Windows 7-10 transition. Will people eventually just get worn down like last time, my guess is probably. But maybe that is too pessimistic
- npteljes 5y ago
  I don't think many would change, because that's a lot of effort. What would make a difference is, for example, a flavor Linux to become default. If someone would buy a notebook preinstalled with Kubuntu and it would be usable enough so that the buyer won't need to install Windows. This is why I think that, for example, Valve's work in the Linux space is so important.
TedShiller 5y ago
Use Mac?
anshumankmr 5y ago
As someone who used Firefox and has Windows 11, how is it going to affect me? My links open in Firefox only (and the only time I open links is either from WhatsApp or occasionally some link in a doc file or PDF I am reading). It works fine for me so far.
- Liquid_Fire 5y ago
  I think it's only for 'microsoft-edge:' URLs, used by certain Windows features (e.g. Bing search from the start menu, or opening the online help via a link in the Settings). Most other links will just be normal http:/https: links and will use your actual default browser.
  - josephcsible 5y ago
    But keep in mind the fact that any parts of Windows using microsoft-edge: URLs for any reason whatsoever is itself anticompetitive behavior.
    - matt_heimer 5y ago
      Is it really? If I have an OS and I want to deeply integrate the browser into the OS for use-cases other than general browsing of the web, why can't there be browser specific URLs to accomplish that? Is there a complete list of microsoft-edge:// use cases? I know there is a News integration to the taskbar. I love standards but sometimes you have edge use cases that the entire world doesn't need or can adopt. Why can't a browser have proprietary features along with URLs that make sure that a browser supporting those URLs be used? How do you even QA or support a deep browser integration into your OS when the browser can be switched to a 3rd party one? If those deep integrations (News, etc) also prompt you to change your default browser for general web surfing then yes, that would be anticompetitive behavior. Does it do that?
      - howinteresting 5y ago
        These are exactly the arguments Microsoft used in its antitrust defense.
teddyh 5y ago
Tell me again how Microsoft has changed and it isn’t the same company anymore, and how EEE is ancient history.
- jasonhansel 5y ago
  Literally true of Edge's relationship with Chrome. I believe we're now on the "extinguish" phase.
  - Ygg2 5y ago
    I think it's more likely Edge gets extinguished. It's like a blip on Chromium forks radar.
    - sorry_outta_gas 5y ago
      I'm seeing it everywhere
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  I feel like Microsoft really has changed. Not the EEE portion though, it's just that quality and support of their products is no longer a serious consideration. We had to engage software assurance support recently and it is horrifically useless compared to the last time we did.
  - bogwog 5y ago
    > it's just that quality and support of their products is no longer a serious consideration They did lay off their QA teams a while back.
- 2pEXgD0fZ5cF 5y ago
  Microsoft, like many other big modern tech companies, just treat goodwill like a currency. Now the time has come to spend it again. I don't believe for a second that EEE is gone from Microsofts culture and strategy.
vernie 5y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Old_Man_and_the_Lisa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Old_Man_and_the_Lisa
- oceanghost 5y ago
  >In DVD commentary, the writers explained that while Mr. Burns tried to change, he "couldn't help being himself" Great reference, thank you.
cosmotic 5y ago
As far as I know, the workaround is no longer needed https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/microsoft-reverses-windows-11s-annoying-default-browser-setting-changes/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/microsoft-re...
- Someone1234 5y ago
  You're conflating two different issues; Windows 11's broken/anti-competitive default browser changing UI has been improved (although annoying popups remain), but those defaults are only used by non-Microsoft software. Microsoft's other software uses "microsoft-edge://" links which simply ignore the user's default browser choice and open in Edge. When a workaround was found to fix this (i.e. to obey the user's choice), Microsoft blocked it. Plus Microsoft rushed out this Edge-link workaround patch to retail, while sitting on the default browser UI improvements until next year.
- neogodless 5y ago
  It's two different things. 1. This article is about Windows and Microsoft applications forcing use of Edge, ignoring your default browser entirely. 2. Your article is about setting your default browser.
- majormunky 5y ago
  The fix from that article has to do with how one would go about setting a different default browser. Earlier, they had to do this by associating the browser with filetypes, so, someone would have to make multiple changes to fully set their browser default. Now, you can just set the browser like you would think. The issue at hand though has to do with other links within windows that open web pages. Microsoft had used a different protocol (not https, but, something like microsoft-edge://). I think these links are like news items that show up in the start menu, etc. There was no way to set Firefox to open these links with what Windows provided, it only opened in Edge. A program was written that listens for these protocols, and would let the user customize what program opened with those links were clicked. Microsoft has now shut that option down.
recursive 5y ago
Firefox, if it makes you feel any better, you can just make your own firefox: (or mozilla:?) protocol handler, and probably no one will mess with it.
- amoshi 5y ago
  You're completely missing the point, it's about Windows ignoring users browser choice and opening stuff in Edge anyway.
- 0xC0ncord 5y ago
  The problem is that the microsoft-edge:// protocol is used throughout the Windows UI and menus and will always open in Edge regardless of the user's preferences. If you click on a link in say, the Settings UI, it will ignore your default browser preference and open in Edge with no way to change it.
  - criddell 5y ago
    I wonder if they plan on using that protocol to do non-standard stuff that third party browsers won't support? That's the only technical reason I can think of for Microsoft to create a new protocol.
    - throwaway19937 5y ago
      Another possible reason is that the user can load help pages or search results even if the primary browser is broken, has a corrupt install, etc.
    - PascLeRasc 5y ago
      That would go well with their embedded buy-now-pay-later collaboration.
  - Strilanc 5y ago
    Even if you uninstall edge, you can't make windows stop trying to open `microsoft-edge://` links with edge. The default-program-settings page lists it but it's a cruel joke because it doesn't let you actually pick anything except edge; you can't pick a custom program like you can for every other protocol. There are corresponding entries in the registry, and those you can edit to point at firefox... but they are simply ignored. It's quite frustrating.
kunagi7 5y ago
Brave also used this workaround. When workarounds are used by a few (EdgeDeflector), this methods usually pass under the radar... When a lot of users start using them they're quickly patched. Sadly, this fix shows that you can't bully the bullies in their own turf. But Microsoft should never forget the Antitrust lawsuit back in 2001.
- dontblink 5y ago
  Perhaps its time to consider a serious look at another one?
  - LaGrange 5y ago
    Because this time around, MS can point at the entire FAANG and say "why aren't you doing anything about _them_?" Which would be deflection, of course ("whatever, we aren't talking about FAANG right now") but politically strong enough, IMO, to make it scary to sue any of the big tech unless you're willing to go against all of them.
    - zamalek 5y ago
      This behavior is tolerated, and even defended, so far as the others go ("it's their platform"). There needs to be a serious reality check before any form of litigation could work.
drcongo 5y ago
Microsoft is the abusive spouse of tech.
- pferde 5y ago
  And yet most people keep trusting them with their code on Github. If people were smart, there would be Freenode-level mass migration away from GH the day the Microsoft purchase was confirmed. But no, everybody will only scream once Microsoft does something shady, as they inevitably will.
  - tentacleuno 5y ago
    > And yet most people keep trusting them with their code on Github. Honestly, from what I've seen many people don't see the issue with this. "The code is public anyway, so what difference does it make?" I'm starting to see the downsides of that viewpoint now, though[0]. If GitHub, and by extension Microsoft, technically 'own' the code (licensing, etc.) then they have free reign over it, leading to things like Copilot and Intellicode. [0]: https://github.com/MicrosoftDocs/intellicode/issues/201 https://github.com/MicrosoftDocs/intellicode/issues/201
    - cageface 5y ago
      Sourceforge was also great in the beginning but slowly rotted from one bad monetization idea after another. I hope github doesn't go that way but I'm not optimistic.
    - shukantpal 5y ago
      If the code was public on another site, I don't think that would've made a difference in accessibility to the AI
- Tijdreiziger 5y ago
  And Google, and Apple, and Meta...
  - 5y ago
ashton314 5y ago
MS is getting desperate. This shill [^1] had the audacity to reply to a tweet I made praising the very excellent FOSS Zotero bibliography manager with a suggestion to use Edge. Like, come on. Amusingly, Twitter initially hid his tweet with "Tweet may contain offensive material." Offensive to a FOSS-loving mind indeed. [^1]: https://twitter.com/varadarajans https://twitter.com/varadarajans
- keawade 5y ago
  Pedantic musing: > Shill > One who poses as a satisfied customer or an enthusiastic gambler to dupe bystanders into participating in a swindle. Is it "shilling" if you're a project manager recommending your product? He doesn't appear to be posing as anything other than a Microsoft employee working on the Edge team.
  - beebeepka 5y ago
    Now I am interested to learn how would you describe it!
  - hn_version_0023 5y ago
    You've missed the 2nd definition of shill: shill verb: 2 : to act as a spokesperson or promoter "the eminent Shakespearean producer … is now shilling for a brokerage house" — Andy Rooney shill noun: 1b : one who makes a sales pitch or serves as a promoter https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/shill https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/shill If you're going to choose to be pedantic, it helps to read the entire definition, and not just paste in the top result from DDG's "define shill"
    - lowbloodsugar 5y ago
      Pretty sure that to be a shill, your relationship to the thing being promoted has to be hidden. We don't refer to marketing folks as shills. Parasites maybe, badum-ching.
      - 5y ago
jagger27 5y ago
United States v. Microsoft was 20 years ago. Is there nobody left at Microsoft who remembers that?
- jareklupinski 5y ago
  avg tech turnover is 1.5 years, it's likely...
  - ComputerGuru 5y ago
    Microsoft has much lower turnover than that.
- dragontamer 5y ago
  Apple's default web browser is Safari on iOS and no one ever sued Apple over it. At some point, you have to just recognize that the world is different today. The general market has accepted walled garden OSes with anti-competitive behavior towards common applications.
  - dorchadas 5y ago
    They've changed it. I have Brave set as my default, for instance, and can change apps to tell them which one to open.
    - dragontamer 5y ago
      IIRC, all web browsers on iOS are using the Safari rendering engine though. So its still Safari underneath it all. Much like how Internet Explorer / Edge on Windows is really just a Chrome renderer / frontend these days. EDIT: And since Google is in charge of the Chrome renderer, Microsoft absolutely has less control over internet-APIs / Javascript APIs / CSS details than say... Apple or Google does. Which is the "monopoly" bit that we're really worried about. When you consider which company "controls the web", its Google or Apple. Microsoft really doesn't have much control of it.
cronix 5y ago
So far in the last year or so, I've heard 0 reasons why I'd even need, want or benefit from Win11 over Win10. Tons of reasons in the negative column though. There isn't even anything to salivate over that might make you think it might be worth it to deal with the other tradeoffs. Hard pass.
- nahconan 5y ago
  [dead]
- aaomidi 5y ago
  Mainly wslg, which has vgpu support for consumer gpus. That's about it.
- josephcsible 5y ago
  Unfortunately, there's one very big reason you'll need Windows 11: that Windows 10 won't get security updates forever. After October 14th, 2025, you'll need to "upgrade" to it to stay secure.
  - SECProto 5y ago
    You can get 2021 Windows 10 LTSC IoT with 10 year lifecycle[1], so Jan 2032 for security updates. [1] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows-10-iot-enterprise-ltsc-2021 https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows-...
  - soco 5y ago
    That's 4 good years to wait and see.
    - xgbi 5y ago
      > That's 4 good years to see if the grass is greener on the Unix side There, I fixed it
      - lostmsu 5y ago
quasarj 5y ago
What in the love of God is a "microsoft-edge://" link, and why would someone willingly click it? This sounds like non-news.
- josephcsible 5y ago
  You wouldn't. Windows uses it on your behalf for a lot of things.
- mattowen_uk 5y ago
  it's a link buried inside a lot of the bundled utilities in Windows. It forces URLs to use Edge as the browser instead of your chosen default one. Windows 11 has a news & weather popup widget that sits down by the clock, in which you can click on the live tiles shown to take you to more info on the web. This widget uses microsoft-edge:// URI scheme so Edge is ALWAYS invoked. Mozilla tried to hack their way around it, and it's been a few weeks of cat and mouse on it. At the moment, MS are winning. It's like they've totally forgotten the events of the IE anti-trust stuff.
  - barranger 5y ago
    Or have watched Apple's behaviour with browsers on iOS (yes I know about the Chrome, that's just a facade on top of safari's render and js engine).
pjfin123 5y ago
Linux Desktop feeling extra good today, my sound often doesn't work but I don't have to deal with Microsoft nonsense.
- freeqaz 5y ago
  Pipewire has made all of my audio issues on Linux go away, at this point. Maybe it's my hardware (a high-end Dell Latitude that is Ubuntu certified) but it just f*cking works! I'm on Arch, so I find I tend to have fewer issues than with Ubuntu (due to the latter always being on some ancient version). Seriously though when I switched from Pulse to Pipewire... I rebooted and I've never had any issues since! Now, my biggest complaints are around i3 and X11. I get some flickering, and display management is a little painful. But those are largely self-imposed because of i3. I haven't tried switching to Wayland yet because it's good enough for me. At this point, it's been years since I've used a Windows PC for work and... I'm so damn happy about it!
  - pojntfx 5y ago
    If you like i3 but want to try Wayland pain-free - Sway uses i3's config file syntax, so you shouldn't have to change anything to try it out :)
    - dijit 5y ago
      Caveat emptor: your normal apps might struggle still. Some common things have wayland native replacements but it might be jarring. Redshift (automatic Color temperature change) -> gammastep Dunst (notifications) -> mako Rofi (launcher) -> idk I just used kitty+fzf with some special options.
      - extr 5y ago
        there is a wayland replacement for rofi called wofi. i didn't use rofi for anything particularly intensive so it was a drop in replacement for me
      - helmholtz 5y ago
bovermyer 5y ago
Microsoft is making me seriously reconsider using Windows for my Alienware gaming PC. Does anyone know if there's a version of the Alienware, Steelseries, and Razer control software for Linux?
- gjs278 5y ago
  https://github.com/dneto/senseictl https://github.com/dneto/senseictl google from there for your specific product. this one worked for mine but I only needed basic things like turning off the LED
- zamalek 5y ago
  Be prepared to have a VM and pass through devices to it in order to configure them. "Gamer device" manufacturers easily the worst of the worst when it comes to Linux support. OpenRGB may provide some relief.
  - kroltan 5y ago
    And Windows support, too! "Gamer device" configuration software is 98% a shitshow, the other 2% is just about tolerable.
  - Isthatablackgsd 5y ago
    > "Gamer device" manufacturers easily the worst of the worst when it comes to Linux support. And Windows too. Logitech software is an example of that, their capture software refused to recognize an older functional generation of webcam like C910. It is capable of recording 1080p60 5 years ago. Their older version software (Logitech Webcam Software) no longer works in Windows 10. Tried to use OBS to get it to 60 FPS, nope! Somehow LWS have a secret sauce to get my C910 to record in 1080p60 setting. And their Logitech G Hub suck balls for my G600. Unfortunately, I couldn't get Logitech Gaming Software (predecessor for G Hub) working in my main computer. Kept throwing up error when I tried to install it. LGS works better for my G600 than G Hub.
- sleibrock 5y ago
  I can't say I've used it personally but I know of OpenRGB[1], which should help with lighting on those types of computer devices. Maybe that might do the trick? [1] - https://openrgb.org/ https://openrgb.org/
dorchadas 5y ago
I need a new computer, and I was going to switch to Windows so I could game with friends (while dual-booting into some linux distro for anything programming related), which would force me into 11. It's already a shame that I have to have a Microsoft account to even set up the damn thing, but now I can't even use whatever default browser I want? I'm seriously about the say screw it and pay for another Mac. I love mine, but wanted to game but at this point it might not be worth it.
- maybeOneDay 5y ago
  Don't get me wrong, this is some absolute BS from MSoft, but no it's not accurate to say you can't use whatever default browser you want. It's that there are a very few select things that force you into opening a link in edge - as far as I'm aware this is functionality mostly limited to just websearch from the start menu. So if you prefer to Google/DuckDuckGo your shit by first opening a browser, this won't really affect you. It's important philosophically and as an indicator of Msoft's behaviour/strategy, but doesn't considerably affect users too much. Caveat - I haven't used Windows 11 so I'm unaware if they've enhanced the number of places that these edge specific links are used. In windows 10 I haven't even bothered to implement some workaround because I never want to search the web from my start menu
  - kroltan 5y ago
    Most "help"/"support" links on Windows 10 (and likely 11 too, but I'm not curious to find out) in things like the control panel or built-in applications also use this protocol and force open Edge.
    - maybeOneDay 5y ago
      Ah, right you are.
- literallyaduck 5y ago
  Just use linux. With proton and lutris, gaming is good. Microsoft can keep it's draconian OS.
no_circuit 5y ago
Forcing the use of edge for features that should be browser-neutral like Bing web search from the start menu seems very wrong in terms of user choice. However, if this is Microsoft's version of "Electron" in order to implement parts of the OS, then blocking other browsers seems pretty reasonable. It makes technical sense because they can also directly provide a Windows Login cookie for linking to their apps on the web to make them PWAs for which the user would then already be authenticated. Maybe all that needs to be done is change things like Bing Search to normal https URL, and maybe remove browser controls like the address bar or bookmarks so they can't be used as a "browser"?
- 2Gkashmiri 5y ago
  why do you need to ALWAYS stay signed in? for the past decade i have a habit of doing CTRL+SHIFT+P on my firefox and using that. i did a "privatebrowsing.autostart=true" in the past but for a few years, a simple private window is enough. it takes me 2 seconds to click on sign in to anything and when i close the window, everything is washed away. no more youtube building my profile. i'm not saying this is for everyone, i have gotten used to no history so i have to "remember" the url or bookmark it. still, this is too creepy. wittill they remove private browsing mode from chrome/chromium to protect users. smh
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - thomastjeffery 5y ago
    While the UI side still needs a lot of work, I find Firefox containers to be a great compromise. Any site I want login or cookies to persist gets a container, and the rest can go in a private window.
danjc 5y ago
Ok I’ll take the contrarian view. Why is it a big deal that a specialized url scheme is specifically intended to launch a Microsoft browser? Only apps built by Microsoft will use that scheme.
- 34679 5y ago
  As far as privacy is concerned, there's not much difference between using someone's browser and inviting them into you home. Imagine two people show up at your door. One is your trusted friend. The other is your landlord's friend, and you don't trust them. Would it be a big deal for your landlord to push his friend in the door when you try to let your friend in? After all, he owns the home (you just pay for a license to use it), and he trusts his friend, so why should you care?
- ivraatiems 5y ago
  Because Microsoft makes Windows, and therefore can force anything Windows tries to open to use that scheme. This means you can never view search results, weather, news, etc. that Windows provides to you integrated into its experience in any browser other than edge.
  - PraetorianGourd 5y ago
    But they don’t. Microsoft could do this. Apple could do that. Google could do this and that. I don’t give much of a shit what someone could do. Biden could order a nuclear attack on Finland. China could order all references to their president baseball be replaced by the word baseball. Linus could merge in whatever the fuck to the kernel. But if he did, everyone would panic, so let’s wait until they do the thing
    - ivraatiems 5y ago
      What are you talking about? They are literally doing this right now, that's already what it is doing. Everything I described is happening now.
      - 5y ago
tester756 5y ago
on the other hand it's shitty on the other im curious how web would look like if Google lost its browser market share
nsxwolf 5y ago
Didn't they lose a pretty big antitrust lawsuit over this a couple decades ago? Has the regulatory landscape changed to the point that they think they can just start this right up again? Or is it more, there's no way anyone could believe a Microsoft browser could dominate anymore?
- bachmeier 5y ago
  Microsoft is no longer a monopolist. The world has changed dramatically since 1995-1997.
  - Dylan16807 5y ago
    They have 75% of desktop/laptop OS market share. That's plenty.
    - bachmeier 5y ago
      The first step in antitrust is to define the market. It seems unlikely that desktop/laptop would be considered a separate market - mobile is just too capable (how do you even draw the line between an iPad Pro and a laptop?) But even within desktop/laptop you have Apple plus Chromebooks and to some extent Linux as substitutes. There were no serious substitutes in the 1995-1997 time period that led to the antitrust proceedings.
      - Dylan16807 5y ago
        Phones are not capable in the same way. And I think this number already counts chromebooks. Let me know what your revised number is for ipad pros. > There were no serious substitutes in the 1995-1997 time period that led to the antitrust proceedings. Macs were just fine then, and they're just fine now. They couldn't run all important business software then, and they can't run all important business software now. The situation has not changed much.
- tssva 5y ago
  They did not. Even when they were under the settlement agreement and had to prompt for installation of another default browser at first boot IE was still included in the OS and certain items opened in IE no matter what your default browser was set to. This is the same situation. They are not blocking setting of the browser for general urls but for edge links. Edge links are used by particular software in Windows. For instance the help system always opens pages in Edge. Whether this is the correct thing for them to do is debatable, but it is not the behavior which got them in trouble during the early browser wars.
beebeepka 5y ago
It's a good thing because surely some of those who are still putting up with MS may decide enough is enough. Whoever you are, that the wonderful, fully gaming capable world of Linux is there. We have some cookies but Valve is bringing a massive cake early next year.
ulzeraj 5y ago
Windows 10 and 11 retail "user experience" seems to be written with telemetry in mind. You as a home user don't even need to pay for windows anymore if you are ok with the watermark. However you shouldn't mess with their telemetry-exporter-disguised-as-a-chrome-reskin golden egg.
FridayoLeary 5y ago
Is this something that could have been forced on the desktop team by the management of the Edge team? I'm sure the people actually making the OS care about their users, or at least the product itself. Meanwhile, the Edge team don't care. Anyway everybody uses Chrome, (and if they don't they are still using Chrome).
thesuperbigfrog 5y ago
Microsoft is showing that they are really the ones who are in control. "Either the user controls the software, or the software controls the users": https://youtu.be/Ag1AKIl_2GM?t=57 https://youtu.be/Ag1AKIl_2GM?t=57
BrandoElFollito 5y ago
I am an amateur developper and honestly pity the MS browser team. It must not be that obvious to think they you develop a browser which usual usage is to download another browser.
seqizz 5y ago
What the hell is a "microsoft-edge:// link"? Pardon my ignorance since I didn't use Windows for years, but who even link something like that?
- crvdgc 5y ago
  On Windows, apps can register URIs for them to handle. For example, steam uses steam://. The actual behavior is determined by the app. According to Microsoft's documentation[0], the microsoft-edge:// scheme opens the edge browser and navigates to the specified URL. If what is claimed in the article is implemented, it will provide a way to bypass the default browser setting. The system will launch edge even if you set another browser as your default web browser, bringing the problem of leaking MS account information that comes with the edge. [0]: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/launch-resume/launch-default-app#microsoft-edge-uri-scheme https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/launch-resume/l...
- neop1x 5y ago
  They use this scheme throughout the system, for example after clicking on a search result from the Cortana search. That basically skips your default browser settings and opens sites in Edge.
mrweasel 5y ago
Does anyone know why Microsoft even care? Do they want to be the dominate browser maker again? Seems like a weird way of going about it. What's their goal?
- ByThyGrace 5y ago
  Pleasing the shareholders?
  - mrweasel 5y ago
    Why would they care if “internal” links are opened in one browser or another?
amatecha 5y ago
Was there not a huge lawsuit around this kind of crap in the 90's? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor.... How did this anticompetitive BS ever get the greenlight from legal?
- downWidOutaFite 5y ago
  A good thing about monopolies is that it gives the government the power to step in and stop anti-consumer abuses. In duopolies, such as Windows/MacOS or iPhone/Android, the government doesnt have as much power.
  - bogwog 5y ago
    I think this is a pointless distinction, and I'm not a lawyer, but I also don't think it even matters from a legal perspective whether a company is a Hasbro-style 100% monopoly. The reason the government is going after these companies is probably just because the people in charge are incompetent and/or lazy morons.
  - okanat 5y ago
    Anti-trust laws are not only for true monopolies. Any company that has a significant percentage in the market (determined by the regulations and courts) can be scrutinized under anti-trust laws. At least in the EU.
thunderbong 5y ago
From the TFA - This is not for http:// http://, https:// https://, file:// links. This is specifically for microsoft-edge:// links, which I've never seen. I think this applies only for Progressive Web Apps (PWAs). I'm wondering how many of the commentators here have actual read the article.
- eli 5y ago
  No, microsoft-edge links are used through Windows itself when it wants to show a webpage, e.g. from Cortana or a desktop widget. They open in Edge even if you've told Windows you want a different default browser
  - zuminator 5y ago
    FWIW seems to me that if you rename msedge.exe to somethingelse.exe, that those microsoft-edge links don't work any longer. I don't know if you can actually get it to open another browser (I tried renaming firefox.exe to msedge.exe without achieving the desired result) but at least you can stop it from opening Edge, if that's what you want.
    - actuallyalys 5y ago
      I wonder if it's keeping the protocol ms-edge, although I'd assume you'd have noticed that. I guess you could try creating a tiny app named msedge.exe that reopens the links as https:// https://
    - smhenderson 5y ago
      You can do that but Windows will just put edge back next time you update, or on some schedule, or who f*'ing knows anymore? I've done it several times, verified it won't start from the menu, won't start if I enable News and Weather and click it but somehow a couple days later it's back. I gave up trying to fight with it. If I click something and it opens in edge I just close it and try to never click that thing again. I've given up using Windows at home, I don't get time lately to play games so I don't miss it. But I'm stuck using it at work and I catch myself wasting time getting upset about Microsoft's behavior with regards to this and have to just remind myself not to worry about it, close the window and move on... I'm there and getting paid to work, not to mess around with stupid crap like this, despite how much it irritates me.
modeless 5y ago
Firefox should go all the way on this. Exploit bugs, modify binaries, whatever it takes. With user consent of course. If the user says they want Firefox to be their default browser, Firefox is justified in modifying the operating system to achieve that. Ultimately Microsoft is powerless to stop this except by using their antivirus to block installation of Firefox in the first place, and I'd like to see them try that because the blowback would be epic.
- drdaeman 5y ago
  This. Just like in the ol' good days, install an API hook (e.g. with Microsoft Detours[1]) that would patch relevant functions in-memory. Microsoft cannot block this because they'll be breaking lots of existing things (automation tools, gaming overlays, AV software even). And if MS would want to play it rough and start blocking hook DLLs with permission barriers, make this API patcher a kernel module. [1]: https://github.com/microsoft/detours https://github.com/microsoft/detours
  - dblohm7 5y ago
    Firefox already does Detours-style API hooking -- I was its maintainer for several years.
    - nyanpasu64 5y ago
      What is the API hooking used for?
      - dblohm7 5y ago
        Mostly security and sandboxing stuff.
  - bob1029 5y ago
    Right now, TrustedInstaller is an excellent workaround for many things.
  - dataflow 5y ago
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
ohiovr 5y ago
Even in windows 10 in a virtual machine I cannot download chrome and install it. I have to use virtualbox to transfer the installer and run it that way. Poor Microsoft has to use such tactics because their software blows (they know windows sucks and they have no control over it anymore) and they can only barely hold on with these tactics. Wasn't there an antitrust lawsuit which they some how won because of violations lesser than this?
phendrenad2 5y ago
> Basically, this means that “microsoft-edge:// links” can no longer be forced to open in your default browser of choice So wait... Links that specifically REQUEST to be OPENED IN EDGE cannot be overridden to open with an arbitrary program? So just don't use those links. Problem solved. The irony here is anyone who actually cares enough to be angered by Microsoft opening links in Edge rather than their preferred browse would never use "Start menu search" or other noob features.
arepublicadoceu 5y ago
Windows 11 was an absolute downgrade to my Windows 10 experience. To the point that I went back to windows 10 in less than a day of Windows 11. 1. I can't ungroup the taskbar windows. So now I have to hoover the taskbar to see multiple instances of the same software; 2. Who the hell thought it was a great idea to couple all the commands like WiFi, power energy, etc under the same menu? On Windows 11 I needed to click the WiFi icon, select WiFi menu, select a WiFi to connect to. Whereas on windows 10 I just click on the WiFi symbol and choose the WiFi. I don't like my computer auto connecting to the Internet so I manually connect whenever I want and use this menu multiple times a day. 3. Speaking of great ideas, now all the right click useful stuff is behind a second menu... Pure genius move. I know I can hack my way around these issues but I don't see the point of installing sketchy software or messing registry hacks to fix this mess. I will use Windows 10 until its end of life.
- medlazik 5y ago
  It's still Windows, we can tweak everything exactly how we want it. https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher https://ramensoftware.com/7-taskbar-tweaker-on-windows-11-with-windows-10s-taskbar https://ramensoftware.com/7-taskbar-tweaker-on-windows-11-wi... I've been using 7taskbar for years, it's rock solid. ExplorerPatcher is a new requirement, works great and adds tons of features.
  - RealStickman_ 5y ago
    Maybe it's just me, but tweaking Windows extensively always feels like you're fighting against the OS. I don't have these issues with my Linux installs.
    - GhettoComputers 5y ago
      You don’t uninstall snap if you use Ubuntu?
      - gunapologist99 5y ago
3ace 5y ago
If next year someone make a browser usage chart and Edge usage percentage is increasing compared to previously, I would assume this is the reason :)
rubyist5eva 5y ago
They never learn do they?
justin66 5y ago
The microsoft-edge:// application handler is hard-wired to open Microsoft Edge? My God, the pure, unexpected evil of it.
beebmam 5y ago
We need antitrust action, now
GhettoComputers 5y ago
Is this really an issue? I clicked the help files in windows and it always opened in IE6. It wasn’t more than an annoyance. Can you uninstall edge? I think it’s a sensationalist topic, it’s closing a potential security hole if FF or other browsers aren’t updated. Do I agree with it? No, I use Linux but it’s really not an issue that hasn’t been around and isn’t easily ignored, and many people may never encounter it.
gkoberger 5y ago
I always thought the antitrust ruling against Microsoft was a bit heavy-handed (and I say this as a former Mozilla employee). Like, it was the 90s... most people wouldn't know how to download and install a browser in the first place, so bundling (much like how iOS comes with Safari) seems fair. But then they do shitty stuff like this, and it's a reminder of how overly anti-competitive Microsoft really can be. It's one thing to bundle, and it's another to make it so hard to switch that people finally just give in.
otikik 5y ago
Windows 7 still the best Windows.
- rwaksmunski 5y ago
  I was in this boat but then I've discovered Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC. It's got all the crap stripped out, 10 years of security patches.
  - otikik 5y ago
    Hm. Interesting. Thanks for commenting, it might prove worth trying at least.
g8oz 5y ago
Sounds like its about time for an antitrust investigation.
c7DJTLrn 5y ago
That's ok, Windows 10 works just fine. I hope one day Microsoft realises that their user-hostile actions are dissuading engineers from looking for jobs there. I for one never will. Hell would freeze over sooner.
roschdal 5y ago
Windows 11 made me install Linux again. OpenSUSE this time.
- sm4rk0 5y ago
  That's the spirit! It's amazing how much crap people are able to tolerate.
sm4rk0 5y ago
If you happen to have a PC with OEM-installed Windows, you can switch to Linux and use the Windows license (stored in firmware) to legally install Windows in a Virtual Machine (so the license is not wasted): https://archived.forum.manjaro.org/t/howto-legally-use-windows-10-in-virtualbox/71996 https://archived.forum.manjaro.org/t/howto-legally-use-windo...
FpUser 5y ago
I put Win 11 on one of my laptops so I can test. But for the rest of my windows machines - I usually wait till the dust settles and it proves not to be yet another Vista or Win 8.
DrTung 5y ago
My escape plan is to use Wine for the apps that exist on Windows only. Wine can be a bit lacking though :-( But there's hope on the horizon: Valve's SteamDeck is aiming to make available all Valve's games, even the Windows-only ones, on their custom Arch Linux. using Proton (which is a fork of Wine). As far as I know, this might be the first commercial product that's based on (a fork of) Wine. If they can make all tripleA Windows games with DRM work on their SteamDeck, this will make a serious dent in Windows' monopoly on gaming. And in the process hopefully Wine will get a boost as well...
phreack 5y ago
What would you people suggest is the most Windows-like Linux distro to switch over? I'm thinking in terms of visual similarity, UX, key bindings, and such for everyday usage.
- twblalock 5y ago
  The desktop environment, not the distro, is what really matters. I'd look into a distro that is easy to install and comes packaged with the KDE desktop environment. Most of the popular distros fit that requirement. A few other desktop environments also look like Windows, but I find KDE to be the most similar to Windows 10.
- npteljes 5y ago
  Kubuntu fits this bill in my opinion. If you take a look at their feature tour[0], it uses similar paradigms as Windows. And Ubuntu is widely supported, and their package directory is quite good. [0] https://kubuntu.org/feature-tour/ https://kubuntu.org/feature-tour/
Croftengea 5y ago
Wow. Some people even pay money for this OS..
cplusplusfellow 5y ago
What I want is iMessage on my Linux desktop so that I can still text via my computer while I'm working and barely break concentration. Then I'd never use Mac or Windows again.
- modeless 5y ago
  I'm using https://www.beeper.com/ https://www.beeper.com/ for this and it is very much a beta but it works.
- happyllama 5y ago
  Check out beeper.com. If you have an old Mac lying around you can self-host the iMessage bridge
gunapologist99 5y ago
Why do people still run Windows? Linux is almost universally easier to use now (except for a few things like scanner and printer setup), and gaming has almost caught up as well (with things like Steam, and that's if you're not already using a dedicated console, SteamDeck, or mobile device.) At work, I can understand it a bit more, but I can't understand why anyone would still choose Windows as a desktop at home.
- 1_player 5y ago
  Because the $200 crappy laptop you buy in the store comes with Windows preinstalled and people couldn't care less about their operating system as long as they can write the TPS report they need for work.
kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
Where the F is the EU to slap them for this BS?
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
hakube 5y ago
I'm glad not to be dealing with this nonsense anymore. FreeBSD and GNU/Linux is a blessing
fartcannon 5y ago
At some point, you have to look in the mirror and ask yourself why you're OK being taken advantage of outside of work. Should probably do it inside of work too, but people gotta eat.
throwaway69123 5y ago
How is this any different than apple only allowing safari on IOS
mihaic 5y ago
OSS fanboys have been hailing the coming of Linux on personal computers for years, but it just looks like Windows 11 might be the thing that makes it real, forcing it finally to mature. This is not Vista times, where you can easily get away with a bad OS generation. For the first time in about 12 years I'm dual booting Win 10 and KDE on Ubuntu, and it actually feels like a usable and practical setup. Win 11 really seems to be hateful of users almost. Does it have a target audience anymore, or is it now designed by Mac users that work at MS? Seems like almost everyone should stay on Win 10 or migrate to Mac or Linux. The greatest strength Windows had was that developers could mess around while non-techies would always have a way to do whatever work they needed.
- bshipp 5y ago
  I had to install the last Win 11 release candidate the week before the official release because I needed a new function in WSL2 that was simply unavailable without being part of the "Insiders Program". I gave it a week instead of a day because I'm old and change is difficult but, if anything, the productivity impacts of their design choices were even more apparent at the end of that week. Force tab grouping on the Taskbar? That stupid half context menu that requires an additional click to reach the real context menu? Everything seemed designed to take at least two more clicks than Win10 while offering worse situational awareness as to what was open on my workstation. I agree, Win11 is not a love letter to users. It's a drunken 3AM rant.
- npteljes 5y ago
  They have plenty of time and moat to get away with it. The success of Windows is not because people like it, but because it's the de facto standard PC OS. Drivers are built for Windows, computers come preinstalled with Windows, schools teach Windows and Office, businesses are already invested in Windows. This is not going to change just because Windows is somewhat annoying.
  - mihaic 5y ago
    This has been the case for decades, but it can't be this way forever -- even Cobol apps get rewritten sometimes. I've been a lifelong Windows user, but I honestly can't see myself installing Win 11, even for my parents.
shmerl 5y ago
Welcome to Linux.
CC_cooper 5y ago
currently I don't have a Win11 installation, I wander if chrome gets shut down too.
CC_cooper 5y ago
currently I don't have a win11 installation yet, well this is surely one of the reason not to upgrade, I wonder if Chrome gets shut down too
questiondev 5y ago
one day operating systems will be “living”, and will be able to analyze and run code just from reading documentation and source files. completely sci-fi right now. anyways, microsoft shutting out firefox sounds anti-competition
NoImmatureAdHom 5y ago
A lot of people complaining about Windows 11 here. I suggest giving Linux a try! It just works these days. Ubuntu, Mint, and Elementary are fun places to start. "But can I use $MS_THING ?" Yes, if you insist. Just spin up a VM. But really, if work isn't forcing you to use a particular tool, there are better ways of doing that :-)
- timbit42 5y ago
  I'd recommend skipping Ubuntu and the *ubuntus. Linux Mint and Debian are better. Zorin claims to be Windows-like: https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=zorin https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=zorin
  - NoImmatureAdHom 5y ago
    My thought was that Ubuntu &c. are more "just works" than Debian, and that would be better for new users. I mentally classify Mint with the *Ubuntus. Ubuntu by default used to contain more proprietary, closed-source stuff which, sadly, results in more things (peripherals, wifi, graphics, etc.) just working. Is this no longer true?
    - timbit42 5y ago
      It is still true but many other distros have them too now. I've found Linux Mint, which was originally based on Ubuntu, to be much nicer and upgrades are easier. I'm not a fan of Ubuntu creating their SNAP store which seems like a play to get a monopoly on Linux.
sockaddr 5y ago
Anyone on the fence about ditching Windows for Linux should just do it. If you pick a popular distro and hardware you'll likely run into only minimal issues, if any. My sound and wifi worked right out of the box even though I built my own system. Why anyone still puts up with this garbage, abusive, disrespectful OS is beyond me.
- pacificat0r 5y ago
  There are some videogames I play that only work on Windows :/
  - neop1x 5y ago
    More people should be contacting developer's support and asking for a Linux release. I find it quite sad that they are still ignoring multi-platform support, especially after MacOS popularity (and powerful M1) and Vulkan API and DXVK on Linux. There is even the Steam on Linux and SteamOS.
- gmadsen 5y ago
  ive had to break down and at least have a windows vm. ive picked up making music as a hobby and all the various production and plugin-in software is a no go with linux. Same with VR related things. I would love to get a mac, but unfortunately arm isn't really supported for my other use cases (ros middleware robotics)
  - Underphil 5y ago
    I know this isn't the panacea to your problems, but I do a ton of music production and LinVst + Reaper works really well these days. It is still ultimately a workaround, but it's a possibility.
  - jokteur 5y ago
    Same in my case. I am a music hobbyist, and invested some money in tools that work only on Windows and MacOs. Of course, I could start from scratch, learn a new tool, pick up some compatible vsts, but really it is not the same. When the day comes when I have no longer the choice (i.e. I am forced to upgrade to windows 11), I may reconsider everything: should I make the switch to MacOs and their closed OS ? Should relearn everything on linux, and loose some of the professional tools that I am using ?
terrycody 5y ago
It's time for the antitrust, isn't it?
tediousdemise 5y ago
Solus is one of my favorite Linux distros. Time for a reinstall, unless anyone wants to share a similar/better distro.

715 points by beezle 5y ago

I have a feeling that MS is playing with fire again.... That every request made through the edge browser for a non local user is associated to his/her live ID is pure coincidence ;) Sometimes when I look into my dns logs, I cry a little bit inside too.

Datagenerator 5y ago
That's the moment you fire up Firefox without prefetch nor studies and enjoy the peaceful DNS logs without the constant telemetry calls to LinkedIn and to all interested 3rd parties, five eyes etc
- jhoelzel 5y ago
  i thought that too! but firefox has different dns requests going to their servers as well.
  - no_time 5y ago
    On linux you can use IceCat. On windows, download simplewall and block pingsender.exe there. Should get rid of the queries if you combine it with userjs tweaking.
    - callamdelaney 5y ago
      Just setup pihole - you can run it on any server and use it as a local dns server. Probably somebody else has done the work to list these spammy domains.
      - paulryanrogers 5y ago
        What about DNS over HTTPS?
        zamadatix 5y ago
        If you just want FF to not use it you can block "use-application-dns.net" which acts as a canary domain for it to disable DoH. If you want to block it from things you don't trust to have such methods (or always listen to them) you'll have to upgrade to a firewall that can filter outbound connections to IPs the client hasn't received a DNS response for or require use of an explicit HTTP proxy for outbound connectivity. Just blocking DNS can be a good middle ground for reasonable effectiveness without as much effort.
    - jhoelzel 5y ago
      thank you for the tip! I use an OpenWrt acces point that is on my desk and uses dnsblocking through blacklists. This way I have a wired and wifi network that block the most annoying stuff by default. It also integrates nicely with wireguard too.
    - bogwog 5y ago
      > On windows, download simplewall and block pingsender.exe there Even if that works, it'll likely get patched out eventually with a forced update. If you do insist on using Windows, an external firewall is the only way to be sure. But even that isn't foolproof since another update may decide that your Windows license isn't valid unless the analytics server is reachable.
    - boogies 5y ago
      Or just use LibreWolf, it's just FF with uBlock and disabled tracking out of the box (available for GNU, macOS, and MSW iirc).
  - deepbluev7 5y ago
    There is a German article, that goes in depth on how to disable pretty much all of them and explains what they do: https://www.kuketz-blog.de/mozilla-firefox-datensendeverhalten-desktop-version-browser-check-teil20/ https://www.kuketz-blog.de/mozilla-firefox-datensendeverhalt... A few of them actually do make sense for a normal user (i.e. the Wifi portal stuff). But you can disable it if you spend some effort on it or you can also use an alternative build of Firefox without it. Not great, but also not terrible imo. Sorry, that I have no English source.

Decabytes 5y ago

I wonder how many people will actually switch away from Windows this time. It’s interesting to see people saying they will stick with Windows 10, when the same thing was said about the Windows 7-10 transition. Will people eventually just get worn down like last time, my guess is probably. But maybe that is too pessimistic

npteljes 5y ago
I don't think many would change, because that's a lot of effort. What would make a difference is, for example, a flavor Linux to become default. If someone would buy a notebook preinstalled with Kubuntu and it would be usable enough so that the buyer won't need to install Windows. This is why I think that, for example, Valve's work in the Linux space is so important.

TedShiller 5y ago

Use Mac?

anshumankmr 5y ago

As someone who used Firefox and has Windows 11, how is it going to affect me? My links open in Firefox only (and the only time I open links is either from WhatsApp or occasionally some link in a doc file or PDF I am reading). It works fine for me so far.

Liquid_Fire 5y ago
I think it's only for 'microsoft-edge:' URLs, used by certain Windows features (e.g. Bing search from the start menu, or opening the online help via a link in the Settings). Most other links will just be normal http:/https: links and will use your actual default browser.
- josephcsible 5y ago
  But keep in mind the fact that any parts of Windows using microsoft-edge: URLs for any reason whatsoever is itself anticompetitive behavior.
  - matt_heimer 5y ago
    Is it really? If I have an OS and I want to deeply integrate the browser into the OS for use-cases other than general browsing of the web, why can't there be browser specific URLs to accomplish that? Is there a complete list of microsoft-edge:// use cases? I know there is a News integration to the taskbar. I love standards but sometimes you have edge use cases that the entire world doesn't need or can adopt. Why can't a browser have proprietary features along with URLs that make sure that a browser supporting those URLs be used? How do you even QA or support a deep browser integration into your OS when the browser can be switched to a 3rd party one? If those deep integrations (News, etc) also prompt you to change your default browser for general web surfing then yes, that would be anticompetitive behavior. Does it do that?
    - howinteresting 5y ago
      These are exactly the arguments Microsoft used in its antitrust defense.

teddyh 5y ago

Tell me again how Microsoft has changed and it isn’t the same company anymore, and how EEE is ancient history.

jasonhansel 5y ago
Literally true of Edge's relationship with Chrome. I believe we're now on the "extinguish" phase.
- Ygg2 5y ago
  I think it's more likely Edge gets extinguished. It's like a blip on Chromium forks radar.
  - sorry_outta_gas 5y ago
    I'm seeing it everywhere
AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
I feel like Microsoft really has changed. Not the EEE portion though, it's just that quality and support of their products is no longer a serious consideration. We had to engage software assurance support recently and it is horrifically useless compared to the last time we did.
- bogwog 5y ago
  > it's just that quality and support of their products is no longer a serious consideration They did lay off their QA teams a while back.
2pEXgD0fZ5cF 5y ago
Microsoft, like many other big modern tech companies, just treat goodwill like a currency. Now the time has come to spend it again. I don't believe for a second that EEE is gone from Microsofts culture and strategy.

vernie 5y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Old_Man_and_the_Lisa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Old_Man_and_the_Lisa

oceanghost 5y ago
>In DVD commentary, the writers explained that while Mr. Burns tried to change, he "couldn't help being himself" Great reference, thank you.

cosmotic 5y ago

As far as I know, the workaround is no longer needed https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/microsoft-reverses-windows-11s-annoying-default-browser-setting-changes/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/microsoft-re...

Someone1234 5y ago
You're conflating two different issues; Windows 11's broken/anti-competitive default browser changing UI has been improved (although annoying popups remain), but those defaults are only used by non-Microsoft software. Microsoft's other software uses "microsoft-edge://" links which simply ignore the user's default browser choice and open in Edge. When a workaround was found to fix this (i.e. to obey the user's choice), Microsoft blocked it. Plus Microsoft rushed out this Edge-link workaround patch to retail, while sitting on the default browser UI improvements until next year.
neogodless 5y ago
It's two different things. 1. This article is about Windows and Microsoft applications forcing use of Edge, ignoring your default browser entirely. 2. Your article is about setting your default browser.
majormunky 5y ago
The fix from that article has to do with how one would go about setting a different default browser. Earlier, they had to do this by associating the browser with filetypes, so, someone would have to make multiple changes to fully set their browser default. Now, you can just set the browser like you would think. The issue at hand though has to do with other links within windows that open web pages. Microsoft had used a different protocol (not https, but, something like microsoft-edge://). I think these links are like news items that show up in the start menu, etc. There was no way to set Firefox to open these links with what Windows provided, it only opened in Edge. A program was written that listens for these protocols, and would let the user customize what program opened with those links were clicked. Microsoft has now shut that option down.

recursive 5y ago

Firefox, if it makes you feel any better, you can just make your own firefox: (or mozilla:?) protocol handler, and probably no one will mess with it.

amoshi 5y ago
You're completely missing the point, it's about Windows ignoring users browser choice and opening stuff in Edge anyway.
0xC0ncord 5y ago
The problem is that the microsoft-edge:// protocol is used throughout the Windows UI and menus and will always open in Edge regardless of the user's preferences. If you click on a link in say, the Settings UI, it will ignore your default browser preference and open in Edge with no way to change it.
- criddell 5y ago
  I wonder if they plan on using that protocol to do non-standard stuff that third party browsers won't support? That's the only technical reason I can think of for Microsoft to create a new protocol.
  - throwaway19937 5y ago
    Another possible reason is that the user can load help pages or search results even if the primary browser is broken, has a corrupt install, etc.
  - PascLeRasc 5y ago
    That would go well with their embedded buy-now-pay-later collaboration.
- Strilanc 5y ago
  Even if you uninstall edge, you can't make windows stop trying to open `microsoft-edge://` links with edge. The default-program-settings page lists it but it's a cruel joke because it doesn't let you actually pick anything except edge; you can't pick a custom program like you can for every other protocol. There are corresponding entries in the registry, and those you can edit to point at firefox... but they are simply ignored. It's quite frustrating.

kunagi7 5y ago

Brave also used this workaround. When workarounds are used by a few (EdgeDeflector), this methods usually pass under the radar... When a lot of users start using them they're quickly patched. Sadly, this fix shows that you can't bully the bullies in their own turf. But Microsoft should never forget the Antitrust lawsuit back in 2001.

dontblink 5y ago
Perhaps its time to consider a serious look at another one?
- LaGrange 5y ago
  Because this time around, MS can point at the entire FAANG and say "why aren't you doing anything about _them_?" Which would be deflection, of course ("whatever, we aren't talking about FAANG right now") but politically strong enough, IMO, to make it scary to sue any of the big tech unless you're willing to go against all of them.
  - zamalek 5y ago
    This behavior is tolerated, and even defended, so far as the others go ("it's their platform"). There needs to be a serious reality check before any form of litigation could work.

drcongo 5y ago

Microsoft is the abusive spouse of tech.

pferde 5y ago
And yet most people keep trusting them with their code on Github. If people were smart, there would be Freenode-level mass migration away from GH the day the Microsoft purchase was confirmed. But no, everybody will only scream once Microsoft does something shady, as they inevitably will.
- tentacleuno 5y ago
  > And yet most people keep trusting them with their code on Github. Honestly, from what I've seen many people don't see the issue with this. "The code is public anyway, so what difference does it make?" I'm starting to see the downsides of that viewpoint now, though[0]. If GitHub, and by extension Microsoft, technically 'own' the code (licensing, etc.) then they have free reign over it, leading to things like Copilot and Intellicode. [0]: https://github.com/MicrosoftDocs/intellicode/issues/201 https://github.com/MicrosoftDocs/intellicode/issues/201
  - cageface 5y ago
    Sourceforge was also great in the beginning but slowly rotted from one bad monetization idea after another. I hope github doesn't go that way but I'm not optimistic.
  - shukantpal 5y ago
    If the code was public on another site, I don't think that would've made a difference in accessibility to the AI
Tijdreiziger 5y ago
And Google, and Apple, and Meta...
- 5y ago

ashton314 5y ago

MS is getting desperate. This shill [^1] had the audacity to reply to a tweet I made praising the very excellent FOSS Zotero bibliography manager with a suggestion to use Edge. Like, come on. Amusingly, Twitter initially hid his tweet with "Tweet may contain offensive material." Offensive to a FOSS-loving mind indeed. [^1]: https://twitter.com/varadarajans https://twitter.com/varadarajans

keawade 5y ago
Pedantic musing: > Shill > One who poses as a satisfied customer or an enthusiastic gambler to dupe bystanders into participating in a swindle. Is it "shilling" if you're a project manager recommending your product? He doesn't appear to be posing as anything other than a Microsoft employee working on the Edge team.
- beebeepka 5y ago
  Now I am interested to learn how would you describe it!
- hn_version_0023 5y ago
  You've missed the 2nd definition of shill: shill verb: 2 : to act as a spokesperson or promoter "the eminent Shakespearean producer … is now shilling for a brokerage house" — Andy Rooney shill noun: 1b : one who makes a sales pitch or serves as a promoter https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/shill https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/shill If you're going to choose to be pedantic, it helps to read the entire definition, and not just paste in the top result from DDG's "define shill"
  - lowbloodsugar 5y ago
    Pretty sure that to be a shill, your relationship to the thing being promoted has to be hidden. We don't refer to marketing folks as shills. Parasites maybe, badum-ching.
    - 5y ago

jagger27 5y ago

United States v. Microsoft was 20 years ago. Is there nobody left at Microsoft who remembers that?

jareklupinski 5y ago
avg tech turnover is 1.5 years, it's likely...
- ComputerGuru 5y ago
  Microsoft has much lower turnover than that.
dragontamer 5y ago
Apple's default web browser is Safari on iOS and no one ever sued Apple over it. At some point, you have to just recognize that the world is different today. The general market has accepted walled garden OSes with anti-competitive behavior towards common applications.
- dorchadas 5y ago
  They've changed it. I have Brave set as my default, for instance, and can change apps to tell them which one to open.
  - dragontamer 5y ago
    IIRC, all web browsers on iOS are using the Safari rendering engine though. So its still Safari underneath it all. Much like how Internet Explorer / Edge on Windows is really just a Chrome renderer / frontend these days. EDIT: And since Google is in charge of the Chrome renderer, Microsoft absolutely has less control over internet-APIs / Javascript APIs / CSS details than say... Apple or Google does. Which is the "monopoly" bit that we're really worried about. When you consider which company "controls the web", its Google or Apple. Microsoft really doesn't have much control of it.

cronix 5y ago

So far in the last year or so, I've heard 0 reasons why I'd even need, want or benefit from Win11 over Win10. Tons of reasons in the negative column though. There isn't even anything to salivate over that might make you think it might be worth it to deal with the other tradeoffs. Hard pass.

nahconan 5y ago
[dead]
aaomidi 5y ago
Mainly wslg, which has vgpu support for consumer gpus. That's about it.
josephcsible 5y ago
Unfortunately, there's one very big reason you'll need Windows 11: that Windows 10 won't get security updates forever. After October 14th, 2025, you'll need to "upgrade" to it to stay secure.
- SECProto 5y ago
  You can get 2021 Windows 10 LTSC IoT with 10 year lifecycle[1], so Jan 2032 for security updates. [1] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows-10-iot-enterprise-ltsc-2021 https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows-...
- soco 5y ago
  That's 4 good years to wait and see.
  - xgbi 5y ago
    > That's 4 good years to see if the grass is greener on the Unix side There, I fixed it
    - lostmsu 5y ago

quasarj 5y ago

What in the love of God is a "microsoft-edge://" link, and why would someone willingly click it? This sounds like non-news.

josephcsible 5y ago
You wouldn't. Windows uses it on your behalf for a lot of things.
mattowen_uk 5y ago
it's a link buried inside a lot of the bundled utilities in Windows. It forces URLs to use Edge as the browser instead of your chosen default one. Windows 11 has a news & weather popup widget that sits down by the clock, in which you can click on the live tiles shown to take you to more info on the web. This widget uses microsoft-edge:// URI scheme so Edge is ALWAYS invoked. Mozilla tried to hack their way around it, and it's been a few weeks of cat and mouse on it. At the moment, MS are winning. It's like they've totally forgotten the events of the IE anti-trust stuff.
- barranger 5y ago
  Or have watched Apple's behaviour with browsers on iOS (yes I know about the Chrome, that's just a facade on top of safari's render and js engine).

pjfin123 5y ago

Linux Desktop feeling extra good today, my sound often doesn't work but I don't have to deal with Microsoft nonsense.

freeqaz 5y ago
Pipewire has made all of my audio issues on Linux go away, at this point. Maybe it's my hardware (a high-end Dell Latitude that is Ubuntu certified) but it just f*cking works! I'm on Arch, so I find I tend to have fewer issues than with Ubuntu (due to the latter always being on some ancient version). Seriously though when I switched from Pulse to Pipewire... I rebooted and I've never had any issues since! Now, my biggest complaints are around i3 and X11. I get some flickering, and display management is a little painful. But those are largely self-imposed because of i3. I haven't tried switching to Wayland yet because it's good enough for me. At this point, it's been years since I've used a Windows PC for work and... I'm so damn happy about it!
- pojntfx 5y ago
  If you like i3 but want to try Wayland pain-free - Sway uses i3's config file syntax, so you shouldn't have to change anything to try it out :)
  - dijit 5y ago
    Caveat emptor: your normal apps might struggle still. Some common things have wayland native replacements but it might be jarring. Redshift (automatic Color temperature change) -> gammastep Dunst (notifications) -> mako Rofi (launcher) -> idk I just used kitty+fzf with some special options.
    - extr 5y ago
      there is a wayland replacement for rofi called wofi. i didn't use rofi for anything particularly intensive so it was a drop in replacement for me
    - helmholtz 5y ago

bovermyer 5y ago

Microsoft is making me seriously reconsider using Windows for my Alienware gaming PC. Does anyone know if there's a version of the Alienware, Steelseries, and Razer control software for Linux?

gjs278 5y ago
https://github.com/dneto/senseictl https://github.com/dneto/senseictl google from there for your specific product. this one worked for mine but I only needed basic things like turning off the LED
zamalek 5y ago
Be prepared to have a VM and pass through devices to it in order to configure them. "Gamer device" manufacturers easily the worst of the worst when it comes to Linux support. OpenRGB may provide some relief.
- kroltan 5y ago
  And Windows support, too! "Gamer device" configuration software is 98% a shitshow, the other 2% is just about tolerable.
- Isthatablackgsd 5y ago
  > "Gamer device" manufacturers easily the worst of the worst when it comes to Linux support. And Windows too. Logitech software is an example of that, their capture software refused to recognize an older functional generation of webcam like C910. It is capable of recording 1080p60 5 years ago. Their older version software (Logitech Webcam Software) no longer works in Windows 10. Tried to use OBS to get it to 60 FPS, nope! Somehow LWS have a secret sauce to get my C910 to record in 1080p60 setting. And their Logitech G Hub suck balls for my G600. Unfortunately, I couldn't get Logitech Gaming Software (predecessor for G Hub) working in my main computer. Kept throwing up error when I tried to install it. LGS works better for my G600 than G Hub.
sleibrock 5y ago
I can't say I've used it personally but I know of OpenRGB[1], which should help with lighting on those types of computer devices. Maybe that might do the trick? [1] - https://openrgb.org/ https://openrgb.org/

dorchadas 5y ago

I need a new computer, and I was going to switch to Windows so I could game with friends (while dual-booting into some linux distro for anything programming related), which would force me into 11. It's already a shame that I have to have a Microsoft account to even set up the damn thing, but now I can't even use whatever default browser I want? I'm seriously about the say screw it and pay for another Mac. I love mine, but wanted to game but at this point it might not be worth it.

maybeOneDay 5y ago
Don't get me wrong, this is some absolute BS from MSoft, but no it's not accurate to say you can't use whatever default browser you want. It's that there are a very few select things that force you into opening a link in edge - as far as I'm aware this is functionality mostly limited to just websearch from the start menu. So if you prefer to Google/DuckDuckGo your shit by first opening a browser, this won't really affect you. It's important philosophically and as an indicator of Msoft's behaviour/strategy, but doesn't considerably affect users too much. Caveat - I haven't used Windows 11 so I'm unaware if they've enhanced the number of places that these edge specific links are used. In windows 10 I haven't even bothered to implement some workaround because I never want to search the web from my start menu
- kroltan 5y ago
  Most "help"/"support" links on Windows 10 (and likely 11 too, but I'm not curious to find out) in things like the control panel or built-in applications also use this protocol and force open Edge.
  - maybeOneDay 5y ago
    Ah, right you are.
literallyaduck 5y ago
Just use linux. With proton and lutris, gaming is good. Microsoft can keep it's draconian OS.

no_circuit 5y ago

Forcing the use of edge for features that should be browser-neutral like Bing web search from the start menu seems very wrong in terms of user choice. However, if this is Microsoft's version of "Electron" in order to implement parts of the OS, then blocking other browsers seems pretty reasonable. It makes technical sense because they can also directly provide a Windows Login cookie for linking to their apps on the web to make them PWAs for which the user would then already be authenticated. Maybe all that needs to be done is change things like Bing Search to normal https URL, and maybe remove browser controls like the address bar or bookmarks so they can't be used as a "browser"?

2Gkashmiri 5y ago
why do you need to ALWAYS stay signed in? for the past decade i have a habit of doing CTRL+SHIFT+P on my firefox and using that. i did a "privatebrowsing.autostart=true" in the past but for a few years, a simple private window is enough. it takes me 2 seconds to click on sign in to anything and when i close the window, everything is washed away. no more youtube building my profile. i'm not saying this is for everyone, i have gotten used to no history so i have to "remember" the url or bookmark it. still, this is too creepy. wittill they remove private browsing mode from chrome/chromium to protect users. smh
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- thomastjeffery 5y ago
  While the UI side still needs a lot of work, I find Firefox containers to be a great compromise. Any site I want login or cookies to persist gets a container, and the rest can go in a private window.

danjc 5y ago

Ok I’ll take the contrarian view. Why is it a big deal that a specialized url scheme is specifically intended to launch a Microsoft browser? Only apps built by Microsoft will use that scheme.

34679 5y ago
As far as privacy is concerned, there's not much difference between using someone's browser and inviting them into you home. Imagine two people show up at your door. One is your trusted friend. The other is your landlord's friend, and you don't trust them. Would it be a big deal for your landlord to push his friend in the door when you try to let your friend in? After all, he owns the home (you just pay for a license to use it), and he trusts his friend, so why should you care?
ivraatiems 5y ago
Because Microsoft makes Windows, and therefore can force anything Windows tries to open to use that scheme. This means you can never view search results, weather, news, etc. that Windows provides to you integrated into its experience in any browser other than edge.
- PraetorianGourd 5y ago
  But they don’t. Microsoft could do this. Apple could do that. Google could do this and that. I don’t give much of a shit what someone could do. Biden could order a nuclear attack on Finland. China could order all references to their president baseball be replaced by the word baseball. Linus could merge in whatever the fuck to the kernel. But if he did, everyone would panic, so let’s wait until they do the thing
  - ivraatiems 5y ago
    What are you talking about? They are literally doing this right now, that's already what it is doing. Everything I described is happening now.
    - 5y ago

tester756 5y ago

on the other hand it's shitty on the other im curious how web would look like if Google lost its browser market share

nsxwolf 5y ago

Didn't they lose a pretty big antitrust lawsuit over this a couple decades ago? Has the regulatory landscape changed to the point that they think they can just start this right up again? Or is it more, there's no way anyone could believe a Microsoft browser could dominate anymore?

bachmeier 5y ago
Microsoft is no longer a monopolist. The world has changed dramatically since 1995-1997.
- Dylan16807 5y ago
  They have 75% of desktop/laptop OS market share. That's plenty.
  - bachmeier 5y ago
    The first step in antitrust is to define the market. It seems unlikely that desktop/laptop would be considered a separate market - mobile is just too capable (how do you even draw the line between an iPad Pro and a laptop?) But even within desktop/laptop you have Apple plus Chromebooks and to some extent Linux as substitutes. There were no serious substitutes in the 1995-1997 time period that led to the antitrust proceedings.
    - Dylan16807 5y ago
      Phones are not capable in the same way. And I think this number already counts chromebooks. Let me know what your revised number is for ipad pros. > There were no serious substitutes in the 1995-1997 time period that led to the antitrust proceedings. Macs were just fine then, and they're just fine now. They couldn't run all important business software then, and they can't run all important business software now. The situation has not changed much.
tssva 5y ago
They did not. Even when they were under the settlement agreement and had to prompt for installation of another default browser at first boot IE was still included in the OS and certain items opened in IE no matter what your default browser was set to. This is the same situation. They are not blocking setting of the browser for general urls but for edge links. Edge links are used by particular software in Windows. For instance the help system always opens pages in Edge. Whether this is the correct thing for them to do is debatable, but it is not the behavior which got them in trouble during the early browser wars.

beebeepka 5y ago

It's a good thing because surely some of those who are still putting up with MS may decide enough is enough. Whoever you are, that the wonderful, fully gaming capable world of Linux is there. We have some cookies but Valve is bringing a massive cake early next year.

ulzeraj 5y ago

Windows 10 and 11 retail "user experience" seems to be written with telemetry in mind. You as a home user don't even need to pay for windows anymore if you are ok with the watermark. However you shouldn't mess with their telemetry-exporter-disguised-as-a-chrome-reskin golden egg.

FridayoLeary 5y ago

Is this something that could have been forced on the desktop team by the management of the Edge team? I'm sure the people actually making the OS care about their users, or at least the product itself. Meanwhile, the Edge team don't care. Anyway everybody uses Chrome, (and if they don't they are still using Chrome).

thesuperbigfrog 5y ago

Microsoft is showing that they are really the ones who are in control. "Either the user controls the software, or the software controls the users": https://youtu.be/Ag1AKIl_2GM?t=57 https://youtu.be/Ag1AKIl_2GM?t=57

BrandoElFollito 5y ago

I am an amateur developper and honestly pity the MS browser team. It must not be that obvious to think they you develop a browser which usual usage is to download another browser.

seqizz 5y ago

What the hell is a "microsoft-edge:// link"? Pardon my ignorance since I didn't use Windows for years, but who even link something like that?

crvdgc 5y ago
On Windows, apps can register URIs for them to handle. For example, steam uses steam://. The actual behavior is determined by the app. According to Microsoft's documentation[0], the microsoft-edge:// scheme opens the edge browser and navigates to the specified URL. If what is claimed in the article is implemented, it will provide a way to bypass the default browser setting. The system will launch edge even if you set another browser as your default web browser, bringing the problem of leaking MS account information that comes with the edge. [0]: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/launch-resume/launch-default-app#microsoft-edge-uri-scheme https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/launch-resume/l...
neop1x 5y ago
They use this scheme throughout the system, for example after clicking on a search result from the Cortana search. That basically skips your default browser settings and opens sites in Edge.

mrweasel 5y ago

Does anyone know why Microsoft even care? Do they want to be the dominate browser maker again? Seems like a weird way of going about it. What's their goal?

ByThyGrace 5y ago
Pleasing the shareholders?
- mrweasel 5y ago
  Why would they care if “internal” links are opened in one browser or another?

amatecha 5y ago

Was there not a huge lawsuit around this kind of crap in the 90's? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Cor.... How did this anticompetitive BS ever get the greenlight from legal?

downWidOutaFite 5y ago
A good thing about monopolies is that it gives the government the power to step in and stop anti-consumer abuses. In duopolies, such as Windows/MacOS or iPhone/Android, the government doesnt have as much power.
- bogwog 5y ago
  I think this is a pointless distinction, and I'm not a lawyer, but I also don't think it even matters from a legal perspective whether a company is a Hasbro-style 100% monopoly. The reason the government is going after these companies is probably just because the people in charge are incompetent and/or lazy morons.
- okanat 5y ago
  Anti-trust laws are not only for true monopolies. Any company that has a significant percentage in the market (determined by the regulations and courts) can be scrutinized under anti-trust laws. At least in the EU.

thunderbong 5y ago

From the TFA - This is not for http:// http://, https:// https://, file:// links. This is specifically for microsoft-edge:// links, which I've never seen. I think this applies only for Progressive Web Apps (PWAs). I'm wondering how many of the commentators here have actual read the article.

eli 5y ago
No, microsoft-edge links are used through Windows itself when it wants to show a webpage, e.g. from Cortana or a desktop widget. They open in Edge even if you've told Windows you want a different default browser
- zuminator 5y ago
  FWIW seems to me that if you rename msedge.exe to somethingelse.exe, that those microsoft-edge links don't work any longer. I don't know if you can actually get it to open another browser (I tried renaming firefox.exe to msedge.exe without achieving the desired result) but at least you can stop it from opening Edge, if that's what you want.
  - actuallyalys 5y ago
    I wonder if it's keeping the protocol ms-edge, although I'd assume you'd have noticed that. I guess you could try creating a tiny app named msedge.exe that reopens the links as https:// https://
  - smhenderson 5y ago
    You can do that but Windows will just put edge back next time you update, or on some schedule, or who f*'ing knows anymore? I've done it several times, verified it won't start from the menu, won't start if I enable News and Weather and click it but somehow a couple days later it's back. I gave up trying to fight with it. If I click something and it opens in edge I just close it and try to never click that thing again. I've given up using Windows at home, I don't get time lately to play games so I don't miss it. But I'm stuck using it at work and I catch myself wasting time getting upset about Microsoft's behavior with regards to this and have to just remind myself not to worry about it, close the window and move on... I'm there and getting paid to work, not to mess around with stupid crap like this, despite how much it irritates me.

modeless 5y ago

Firefox should go all the way on this. Exploit bugs, modify binaries, whatever it takes. With user consent of course. If the user says they want Firefox to be their default browser, Firefox is justified in modifying the operating system to achieve that. Ultimately Microsoft is powerless to stop this except by using their antivirus to block installation of Firefox in the first place, and I'd like to see them try that because the blowback would be epic.

drdaeman 5y ago
This. Just like in the ol' good days, install an API hook (e.g. with Microsoft Detours[1]) that would patch relevant functions in-memory. Microsoft cannot block this because they'll be breaking lots of existing things (automation tools, gaming overlays, AV software even). And if MS would want to play it rough and start blocking hook DLLs with permission barriers, make this API patcher a kernel module. [1]: https://github.com/microsoft/detours https://github.com/microsoft/detours
- dblohm7 5y ago
  Firefox already does Detours-style API hooking -- I was its maintainer for several years.
  - nyanpasu64 5y ago
    What is the API hooking used for?
    - dblohm7 5y ago
      Mostly security and sandboxing stuff.
- bob1029 5y ago
  Right now, TrustedInstaller is an excellent workaround for many things.
- dataflow 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

ohiovr 5y ago

Even in windows 10 in a virtual machine I cannot download chrome and install it. I have to use virtualbox to transfer the installer and run it that way. Poor Microsoft has to use such tactics because their software blows (they know windows sucks and they have no control over it anymore) and they can only barely hold on with these tactics. Wasn't there an antitrust lawsuit which they some how won because of violations lesser than this?

phendrenad2 5y ago

> Basically, this means that “microsoft-edge:// links” can no longer be forced to open in your default browser of choice So wait... Links that specifically REQUEST to be OPENED IN EDGE cannot be overridden to open with an arbitrary program? So just don't use those links. Problem solved. The irony here is anyone who actually cares enough to be angered by Microsoft opening links in Edge rather than their preferred browse would never use "Start menu search" or other noob features.

arepublicadoceu 5y ago

Windows 11 was an absolute downgrade to my Windows 10 experience. To the point that I went back to windows 10 in less than a day of Windows 11. 1. I can't ungroup the taskbar windows. So now I have to hoover the taskbar to see multiple instances of the same software; 2. Who the hell thought it was a great idea to couple all the commands like WiFi, power energy, etc under the same menu? On Windows 11 I needed to click the WiFi icon, select WiFi menu, select a WiFi to connect to. Whereas on windows 10 I just click on the WiFi symbol and choose the WiFi. I don't like my computer auto connecting to the Internet so I manually connect whenever I want and use this menu multiple times a day. 3. Speaking of great ideas, now all the right click useful stuff is behind a second menu... Pure genius move. I know I can hack my way around these issues but I don't see the point of installing sketchy software or messing registry hacks to fix this mess. I will use Windows 10 until its end of life.

medlazik 5y ago
It's still Windows, we can tweak everything exactly how we want it. https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher https://ramensoftware.com/7-taskbar-tweaker-on-windows-11-with-windows-10s-taskbar https://ramensoftware.com/7-taskbar-tweaker-on-windows-11-wi... I've been using 7taskbar for years, it's rock solid. ExplorerPatcher is a new requirement, works great and adds tons of features.
- RealStickman_ 5y ago
  Maybe it's just me, but tweaking Windows extensively always feels like you're fighting against the OS. I don't have these issues with my Linux installs.
  - GhettoComputers 5y ago
    You don’t uninstall snap if you use Ubuntu?
    - gunapologist99 5y ago

3ace 5y ago

If next year someone make a browser usage chart and Edge usage percentage is increasing compared to previously, I would assume this is the reason :)

rubyist5eva 5y ago

They never learn do they?

justin66 5y ago

The microsoft-edge:// application handler is hard-wired to open Microsoft Edge? My God, the pure, unexpected evil of it.

beebmam 5y ago

We need antitrust action, now

GhettoComputers 5y ago

Is this really an issue? I clicked the help files in windows and it always opened in IE6. It wasn’t more than an annoyance. Can you uninstall edge? I think it’s a sensationalist topic, it’s closing a potential security hole if FF or other browsers aren’t updated. Do I agree with it? No, I use Linux but it’s really not an issue that hasn’t been around and isn’t easily ignored, and many people may never encounter it.

gkoberger 5y ago

I always thought the antitrust ruling against Microsoft was a bit heavy-handed (and I say this as a former Mozilla employee). Like, it was the 90s... most people wouldn't know how to download and install a browser in the first place, so bundling (much like how iOS comes with Safari) seems fair. But then they do shitty stuff like this, and it's a reminder of how overly anti-competitive Microsoft really can be. It's one thing to bundle, and it's another to make it so hard to switch that people finally just give in.

otikik 5y ago

Windows 7 still the best Windows.

rwaksmunski 5y ago
I was in this boat but then I've discovered Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC. It's got all the crap stripped out, 10 years of security patches.
- otikik 5y ago
  Hm. Interesting. Thanks for commenting, it might prove worth trying at least.

g8oz 5y ago

Sounds like its about time for an antitrust investigation.

c7DJTLrn 5y ago

That's ok, Windows 10 works just fine. I hope one day Microsoft realises that their user-hostile actions are dissuading engineers from looking for jobs there. I for one never will. Hell would freeze over sooner.

roschdal 5y ago

Windows 11 made me install Linux again. OpenSUSE this time.

sm4rk0 5y ago
That's the spirit! It's amazing how much crap people are able to tolerate.

sm4rk0 5y ago

If you happen to have a PC with OEM-installed Windows, you can switch to Linux and use the Windows license (stored in firmware) to legally install Windows in a Virtual Machine (so the license is not wasted): https://archived.forum.manjaro.org/t/howto-legally-use-windows-10-in-virtualbox/71996 https://archived.forum.manjaro.org/t/howto-legally-use-windo...

FpUser 5y ago

I put Win 11 on one of my laptops so I can test. But for the rest of my windows machines - I usually wait till the dust settles and it proves not to be yet another Vista or Win 8.

DrTung 5y ago

My escape plan is to use Wine for the apps that exist on Windows only. Wine can be a bit lacking though :-( But there's hope on the horizon: Valve's SteamDeck is aiming to make available all Valve's games, even the Windows-only ones, on their custom Arch Linux. using Proton (which is a fork of Wine). As far as I know, this might be the first commercial product that's based on (a fork of) Wine. If they can make all tripleA Windows games with DRM work on their SteamDeck, this will make a serious dent in Windows' monopoly on gaming. And in the process hopefully Wine will get a boost as well...

phreack 5y ago

What would you people suggest is the most Windows-like Linux distro to switch over? I'm thinking in terms of visual similarity, UX, key bindings, and such for everyday usage.

twblalock 5y ago
The desktop environment, not the distro, is what really matters. I'd look into a distro that is easy to install and comes packaged with the KDE desktop environment. Most of the popular distros fit that requirement. A few other desktop environments also look like Windows, but I find KDE to be the most similar to Windows 10.
npteljes 5y ago
Kubuntu fits this bill in my opinion. If you take a look at their feature tour[0], it uses similar paradigms as Windows. And Ubuntu is widely supported, and their package directory is quite good. [0] https://kubuntu.org/feature-tour/ https://kubuntu.org/feature-tour/

Croftengea 5y ago

Wow. Some people even pay money for this OS..

cplusplusfellow 5y ago

What I want is iMessage on my Linux desktop so that I can still text via my computer while I'm working and barely break concentration. Then I'd never use Mac or Windows again.

modeless 5y ago
I'm using https://www.beeper.com/ https://www.beeper.com/ for this and it is very much a beta but it works.
happyllama 5y ago
Check out beeper.com. If you have an old Mac lying around you can self-host the iMessage bridge

gunapologist99 5y ago

Why do people still run Windows? Linux is almost universally easier to use now (except for a few things like scanner and printer setup), and gaming has almost caught up as well (with things like Steam, and that's if you're not already using a dedicated console, SteamDeck, or mobile device.) At work, I can understand it a bit more, but I can't understand why anyone would still choose Windows as a desktop at home.

1_player 5y ago
Because the $200 crappy laptop you buy in the store comes with Windows preinstalled and people couldn't care less about their operating system as long as they can write the TPS report they need for work.

kevin_thibedeau 5y ago

Where the F is the EU to slap them for this BS?

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

hakube 5y ago

I'm glad not to be dealing with this nonsense anymore. FreeBSD and GNU/Linux is a blessing

fartcannon 5y ago

At some point, you have to look in the mirror and ask yourself why you're OK being taken advantage of outside of work. Should probably do it inside of work too, but people gotta eat.

throwaway69123 5y ago

How is this any different than apple only allowing safari on IOS

mihaic 5y ago

OSS fanboys have been hailing the coming of Linux on personal computers for years, but it just looks like Windows 11 might be the thing that makes it real, forcing it finally to mature. This is not Vista times, where you can easily get away with a bad OS generation. For the first time in about 12 years I'm dual booting Win 10 and KDE on Ubuntu, and it actually feels like a usable and practical setup. Win 11 really seems to be hateful of users almost. Does it have a target audience anymore, or is it now designed by Mac users that work at MS? Seems like almost everyone should stay on Win 10 or migrate to Mac or Linux. The greatest strength Windows had was that developers could mess around while non-techies would always have a way to do whatever work they needed.

bshipp 5y ago
I had to install the last Win 11 release candidate the week before the official release because I needed a new function in WSL2 that was simply unavailable without being part of the "Insiders Program". I gave it a week instead of a day because I'm old and change is difficult but, if anything, the productivity impacts of their design choices were even more apparent at the end of that week. Force tab grouping on the Taskbar? That stupid half context menu that requires an additional click to reach the real context menu? Everything seemed designed to take at least two more clicks than Win10 while offering worse situational awareness as to what was open on my workstation. I agree, Win11 is not a love letter to users. It's a drunken 3AM rant.
npteljes 5y ago
They have plenty of time and moat to get away with it. The success of Windows is not because people like it, but because it's the de facto standard PC OS. Drivers are built for Windows, computers come preinstalled with Windows, schools teach Windows and Office, businesses are already invested in Windows. This is not going to change just because Windows is somewhat annoying.
- mihaic 5y ago
  This has been the case for decades, but it can't be this way forever -- even Cobol apps get rewritten sometimes. I've been a lifelong Windows user, but I honestly can't see myself installing Win 11, even for my parents.

shmerl 5y ago

Welcome to Linux.

CC_cooper 5y ago

currently I don't have a Win11 installation, I wander if chrome gets shut down too.

CC_cooper 5y ago

currently I don't have a win11 installation yet, well this is surely one of the reason not to upgrade, I wonder if Chrome gets shut down too

questiondev 5y ago

one day operating systems will be “living”, and will be able to analyze and run code just from reading documentation and source files. completely sci-fi right now. anyways, microsoft shutting out firefox sounds anti-competition

NoImmatureAdHom 5y ago

A lot of people complaining about Windows 11 here. I suggest giving Linux a try! It just works these days. Ubuntu, Mint, and Elementary are fun places to start. "But can I use $MS_THING ?" Yes, if you insist. Just spin up a VM. But really, if work isn't forcing you to use a particular tool, there are better ways of doing that :-)

timbit42 5y ago
I'd recommend skipping Ubuntu and the *ubuntus. Linux Mint and Debian are better. Zorin claims to be Windows-like: https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=zorin https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=zorin
- NoImmatureAdHom 5y ago
  My thought was that Ubuntu &c. are more "just works" than Debian, and that would be better for new users. I mentally classify Mint with the *Ubuntus. Ubuntu by default used to contain more proprietary, closed-source stuff which, sadly, results in more things (peripherals, wifi, graphics, etc.) just working. Is this no longer true?
  - timbit42 5y ago
    It is still true but many other distros have them too now. I've found Linux Mint, which was originally based on Ubuntu, to be much nicer and upgrades are easier. I'm not a fan of Ubuntu creating their SNAP store which seems like a play to get a monopoly on Linux.

sockaddr 5y ago

Anyone on the fence about ditching Windows for Linux should just do it. If you pick a popular distro and hardware you'll likely run into only minimal issues, if any. My sound and wifi worked right out of the box even though I built my own system. Why anyone still puts up with this garbage, abusive, disrespectful OS is beyond me.

pacificat0r 5y ago
There are some videogames I play that only work on Windows :/
- neop1x 5y ago
  More people should be contacting developer's support and asking for a Linux release. I find it quite sad that they are still ignoring multi-platform support, especially after MacOS popularity (and powerful M1) and Vulkan API and DXVK on Linux. There is even the Steam on Linux and SteamOS.
gmadsen 5y ago
ive had to break down and at least have a windows vm. ive picked up making music as a hobby and all the various production and plugin-in software is a no go with linux. Same with VR related things. I would love to get a mac, but unfortunately arm isn't really supported for my other use cases (ros middleware robotics)
- Underphil 5y ago
  I know this isn't the panacea to your problems, but I do a ton of music production and LinVst + Reaper works really well these days. It is still ultimately a workaround, but it's a possibility.
- jokteur 5y ago
  Same in my case. I am a music hobbyist, and invested some money in tools that work only on Windows and MacOs. Of course, I could start from scratch, learn a new tool, pick up some compatible vsts, but really it is not the same. When the day comes when I have no longer the choice (i.e. I am forced to upgrade to windows 11), I may reconsider everything: should I make the switch to MacOs and their closed OS ? Should relearn everything on linux, and loose some of the professional tools that I am using ?

terrycody 5y ago

It's time for the antitrust, isn't it?

tediousdemise 5y ago

Solus is one of my favorite Linux distros. Time for a reinstall, unless anyone wants to share a similar/better distro.