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JFK Assassination Records – 2021 Additional Documents Release
- clavicat 5y agoI hope they catch the real killer.
- kreeben 5y agoDisappointing that this has been on HN for 20 minutes and we still haven't found who did it.
- Rebelgecko 5y agoTo be fair it looks like there's almost 1500 documents
- MayeulC 5y agoFeed it into GPT-3 Though I don't think it has that much attention?
- stagger87 5y agoYou are confused as to what GPT-3 does.
- oneoff786 5y agoLocal fiddler asks question to super Ai 100 ways and is eventually told “Jackie Kennedy”. Finally, the case is closed.
- smegsicle 5y agotbh you can clearly see her digging the weapon out of her purse before pulling him in for the kill
- anyfactor 5y agoThis reminds me of several instances where people asked me if I could build them an AI option/crypto trading bot and they will share profits 50/50. I guess saying GPT-3 instead of AI or machine learning gives more marketing hype points. Like calling a landing page a "SAAS". (It's a joke, I hope you don't offended by it).
- oneoff786 5y agoThat’s an excellent deal if they’re providing the capital. Make a bot that tries to mimic s&p500 exposure.
- BrazzVuvuzela 5y agoPrompt text: Sherlock Holmes received the following documents: [insert all 1500 documents here] then exclaimed, "A-ha, I have deduced who did it! It was
- omnicognate 5y agoBy the time it got to the end of the prompt it wouldn't remember the Sherlock Holmes bit.
- gpderetta 5y agoTo be fair so wouldn't most humans!
- jtmarmon 5y agoI'm certain it reads faster than I do. Comprehension, that's another issue...
- xwdv 5y agoNothing a good grep search can’t handle, or maybe fuzzy finder.
- zhengyi13 5y agoPost on Reddit, then.
- duxup 5y agoWell maybe the right out of context text blurb hasn’t yet been found?
- worik 5y agoIt was Robert Anton Wilson
- mindcrime 5y agoOr Anton LaVey. Those "Anton" characters are always up to no good!
- munk-a 5y agoI remain strongly in the camp that it was Jimmy Carter - sure, everyone says he was just chilling out on a peanut farm but that's just a cover story man.
- lapetitejort 5y agoI know this is a joke but I had to know what he was up to at the time. He was serving his first term in the Georgia State Senate.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- devoutsalsa 5y agoThat sounds like a character in an espionage role playing game. “I’m a contract assassin for the CIA. They use me for domestic operations where they can’t operate. My cover is that I’m a peanut farmer. My code name is The Telephoto Lens, because I’m great at those long distance shots. My secondary skill is the ability to invoke a temporary peanut allergy in any person without a saving throw, which presents all sorts of opportunities for covert killings.”
- munk-a 5y agoThat seems exceedingly accurate - and now-a-days I can only assume Jimmy Carter is going around building houses just to hide all the bodies he's racked up from the decades of covert ops. A contract assassin - sure... but also a big fan of the telltale heart. The ability to inflict peanut allergies is golden - thank you for that!
- devoutsalsa 5y agoWhy do you think he works w/ Habitat For Humanity? There's a body buried under every house!
- chrisdhoover 5y ago
- java-man 5y agoIf I recall correctly, the reason for withholding the documents after 50 years was (possibly) some agent or agents being still alive. So, who died?
- briffle 5y agoGeorge H.W. Bush.. If you believe some VERY fringe dark places on the web.
- yucky 5y agoNot as fringe as you might think. I think the two biggest red flags on it are that he claimed to one of his biographers to not recall where he was when he found out JFK had been killed. An odd thing for anybody to say who was not just alive at the time, but especially someone involved with government. As it turns out, he checked out of the Dallas Sheraton that morning, down the street. Second, and even more interesting is that the initial telegraph that went to DC to confirm the President had expired, was sent to J Edgar Hoover (understandable) and some unknown CIA person named George Bush. 10 years later, he then became the first CIA Director with "no previous CIA experience". Doesn't mean he was involved, but those are interesting facts. edit: checked out that morning.
- dane-pgp 5y ago> he claimed to one of his biographers to not recall where he was when he found out JFK had been killed. The theory I heard was that he had suspiciously given two contradictory answers, perhaps one saying he didn't remember, and one saying that he did remember (providing a location that wasn't Dallas). Given the passage of time, and the fact that he visited many locations as part of his political campaigning, it's perhaps reasonable for him to have eventually forgotten the name of the particular place he was when he heard the news. Here is a discussion which tries to source the claim that he once stated he was in Tyler, Texas on the day of the assassination: https://www.metabunk.org/threads/george-h-w-bush-cant-remember-where-he-was-on-nov-22-1963.11999/ https://www.metabunk.org/threads/george-h-w-bush-cant-rememb...
- rectang 5y agoJFC — JFK assassination? I see that these additional records are being released according to a presidential memorandum. They won't resolve the "controversy", though, since there's an industry of grifters which will keep it alive no matter what because their profits depend on it.
- ajhurliman 5y agoAre you implying the JFK assassination wasn't actually controversial and that fringe groups are making a mountain out of a molehill? That seems like a bold claim.
- rectang 5y agoThere's "controversy" because of the trauma to the collective national psyche. People want to believe that larger forces are at work, commensurate to the mythos of a national leader. But if you just examine the facts of the case, it's obvious what happened — a tiny, pathetic little man assassinated a president — with a confidence approaching 100%. (But not getting to 100% — it's important to always maintain your scientific skepticism.) See for example _Case Closed_, Gerald Posner's nearly 30-year-old book. https://www.posner.com/case-closed https://www.posner.com/case-closed
- colechristensen 5y agoOne method of achieving goals like this are to find the one man, groom him, and enable him to do what you want him to do. The FBI runs sting operations like this all the time where they find dumb big talkers, encourage their little group over beers, and then sell them guns or explosives or whatever and arrest them. It is a standard covert operations strategy, get a vulnerable person to do it for you and your actions leave very few fingerprints.
- BrazzVuvuzela 5y agoThen you assassinate the patsy so he can never tell anybody about his 'friends' who talked him into it.
- hsnewman 5y agoAhh, America's start of the conspiracy nuts.
- vmception 5y agoWhat a flurry of activity I skimmed a couple and they seem to provide no insight, which is pretty common in these declassifications
- mrtnmcc 5y agoThe CIA chronology document is a nice overview. https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2021/docid-32347960.pdf https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2021/do...
- criddell 5y agoI've tried to read a couple of random documents and the only question that has been raised in my mind is why were these withheld in the first place? It all seems very mundane.
- voltaireodactyl 5y agoPractically speaking, if {The Company} only withholds the good bits, people know anything classified is worth a damn. By classifying mundanity along with the actual secrets, they tip the signal/noise ratio in the favor of {The Company}
- andrewclunn 5y agoNever really got into the JFK conspiracy thing. Though considering how blatant and obvious so many "conspiracies" are now, it makes me wonder if my initial dismissal of older ones has more to do with social conditioning than their veracity.
- onychomys 5y agoThis is a super interesting read about people back in the 60s (...it was written in 1967, so they're contemporaries) who were already poring over documents, convinced there was a conspiracy to kill Kennedy. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1967/06/10/the-buffs https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1967/06/10/the-buffs
- dboreham 5y agoI believe people (including LBJ and RFK) were convinced within a few minutes.
- tomrod 5y agoBut not before? Just kidding :) It was a shame he died. I wonder what things would look like had he not.
- newaccount2021 5y agoPerhaps nothing. He wasn't regarded as effective during his time in office...maybe he would have just run out the clock on his first term and failed to be re-elected Comments here about Vietnam are way off base...the US mostly fully committed already during his Presidency and there wasn't much pressure at that point to back off...quite the contrary
- robobro 5y agoIndonesia would be completely different. JFK was planning to meet with Sukarno shortly before he was assassinated. Then we got Suharto, New Order, the rest is history (over 1,000,000 communists, atheists, feminists, etc killed, and the third world is set back).
- redis_mlc 5y ago[flagged]
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- iesenji 5y ago??
- Strilanc 5y agoI think they're referring to this: https://www.euroweeklynews.com/2021/12/09/fda-says-it-needs-75-years-to-release-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-data-to-the-public/ https://www.euroweeklynews.com/2021/12/09/fda-says-it-needs-... I tried to read through the court doc [1] linked by the site to find the 75 years but the legalese is beyond me. 1: https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/21150416/fda-brief.pdf https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/21150416/fda-brief.pd...
- unvaxxdhaha 5y agohttps://www.sirillp.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/020-Second-Joint-Status-Report-8989f1fed17e2d919391d8df1978006e.pdf https://www.sirillp.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/020-Secon...
- jcranmer 5y agoScanning quickly, it seems that the "75 years" is based on calculating "this is how many pages of documents that have been requested" and "this is the minimum production rate we can sustain [for this individual FOIA request, noting that there are ~400 other FOIA requests also pending]". The FOIA request apparently consists of 329k pages, and the production rate is 500 pages/month, and dividing the two numbers indicates the "55 year" rate that was originally suggested. I didn't continue to see where the numbers for the 75 year revision comes from, but that gives you the general picture.
- 14 5y agoWow. Talk about a great way to fuel a conspiracy theory. Why could they possibly want to wait 75 years to release data on covid? Surely other nations are going to release independent data on the findings?
- throwawaymanbot 5y agoKennedy was assassinated. Therefore technically there WAS a conspiracy to kill him. In most of these situations and especially for a high profile killing like this, there is a “team”. So it’s not fantasy to think there is a conspiracy.
- ceva 5y agoSo who is next, its been a while ;)
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- dpweb 5y agoI think the important thing that it would be impossible to disprove a conspiracy, even if there wasn’t one, so that idea will always be alive. But I’ve never heard a reasonable argument in favor of the magic bullet theory. This could only be resolved by non-circumstantial evidence which may or may not exist. Every release of evidence is important however, even if proof of a conspiracy is never found.
- munk-a 5y agoThe beauty about conspiracy theories is that #1 the government can never release documents that disprove a conspiracy theory (because they're the government and clearly those documents are an effort to further the cover up) - and independently released information that doesn't align with the theory could always be a government plant - thus see #1. Fervently believed conspiracy theories die out with their believers or when people get bored.
- tehjoker 5y agoThe reason the conspiracy won't die is because the official story is totally implausible. Watch JFK Revisited
- 0110101001 5y agoThe bullet is only "magic" if you assume the Governor's seat is directly in front of and at the same height as JFK's. It isn't. If you model the actual position of everyone in the car at the moment of that shot, it's a straight line from the sniper's nest through all the wounds it caused https://youtu.be/PfSXkfV_mhA https://youtu.be/PfSXkfV_mhA
- selimthegrim 5y agoI believe the jacket JFK was wearing was bunched up as well
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- oneoff786 5y agoFully in the camp that a sniper fired a shot, and then a bodyguard accidentally capped the president from behind. Never revealed out of government shame. Hopeful to learn more.
- pplante 5y agoThat is one of the most out there conspiracy theories I have heard.
- michaelwilson 5y agoSo you haven't heard the one about Ted Cruz's father being behind it?
- the-dude 5y agoWasn't Bush Sr present ?
- kevinmchugh 5y agoIn Dallas, and he said he couldn't remember why he was in Dallas. It's not like anyone ever said he was in the grassy knoll or something though
- oneoff786 5y agoNot enough of a nutter to argue passionately about it, but it’s not that out there. There were secret service men right behind him in a car that suddenly lurched forward after the shots were made (so a physical force could have caused the accident not just an itchy trigger finger on a guard). His wound implies behind shot from behind but placing the snipers behind hasn’t made sense ever.
- Ancapistani 5y agoFWIW, I don’t believe this is what happened, but as I understand it the Secret Service agents had recently been issued a new carbine - an AR-15. At any rate, George Hickey was the agent usually identified as the person who would have negligently discharged his rifle, and photos of the event clearly show him with an AR-15. Allegedly, the Secret Service changed their procedures shortly thereafter to require their agents to carry with an empty chamber. I have no idea if that’s true.
- coding123 5y agohttps://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2021/docid-32106019.pdf https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2021/do...
- dboreham 5y agoThis one makes interesting reading: https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2021/docid-32374478.pdf https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2021/do...
- bastardoperator 5y agoTake one of the private tours at Dealey Plaza, it will make your head spin.
- discardedrefuse 5y agoThe title "CONTACT OF LEE OSWALD WITH A MEMBER OF SOVIET KGB ASSASSINATION DEPARTMENT" caught my eye. "Assassination department" invokes images of bored assassins sitting in cubicles doing busy work. Unfortunately, all the pages are redacted (or poorly scanned). https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2021/docid-32106384.pdf https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/2021/do...
- optimalsolver 5y agoThey really hit their targets.
- scop 5y agoUnlike up and to the right, they want their targets going back and to the left.
- t3rabytes 5y ago> all the pages are all redacted I'm not sure if I'm missing a joke here, those are easily legible.
- chromaton 5y agoZoomed out, it all looks grey, but zoomed in, you can kind of read it.
- setr 5y agothis blackout is really weird -- if you're at 100% its unreadable, and as you zoom in it becomes more readable, peaking around 250% zoom... and if you go further it becomes more unreadable, and after like 450% it becomes totally unreadable again. The overlayed pattern is also very specifically designed, and quite peculiar
- TrainedMonkey 5y agoLooks like redactions got pwned by aliasing.
- beepbooptheory 5y agoYou spend so long researching this and learning about the CIA and Allan Dulles and Fair Play for Cuba, you kind of forget that some people still actually believe Lee Harvey Oswald was just some crazy guy acting alone. Edit: I don't mean to be too snarky, I encourage anyone to do their own research. Its just with things like this... there are always few dozen "smaller" conspiracies attached or related to it, that I truly believe a rational person would easily accept: that the CIA, for example, used certain people as actors to help rally Cuba antagonism, that JFK was himself considered a threat by the establishment at the time, that the CIA has deep connections to crime (for practical purposes). All these things, are believable and motivated by real things, and fit reality better than the official narrative. I think it's understandable though, when confronted with the "big" conspiracy, to hesitate, to be like "Well c'mon lets not be crazy." But really, I implore the diligent, tell me how this thing is NOT the sum of its parts.
- shadowgovt 5y agoGiven that a lone gunman without military training successfully put a bullet in Reagan because he thought it'd get an actress to notice him, I don't know why people have a hard time believing that a lone trained Marine could take out an under-defended target.
- pwned1 5y agoAnd visit Dealey Plaza and look at the shot for yourself. It's so easy, especially with a scope. And then stand on the grassy knoll and realize that it would be the dumbest place to put an assassin.
- phkahler 5y agoAnd then realize that his head was blown backwards. The exit wound was in the back. Photos of it were doctored. The umbrella guy. The magic bullet was intact. His wife tried to climb out the back of the car. A later look by Congress overturned the conclusion of the Warren commission that he acted alone. Most footage you find online now is not the actual footage, but a reenacted clip from a movie. But it's easier to blame one guy than deal with all the unanswered questions if you don't accept that idea. Reality is that we will never know.
- pwned1 5y agoVincent Bugliosi's book on the assassination is highly recommended. It destroys the conspiracy narrative. It's so impressively thorough.
- kylebenzle 5y ago'During his [Vincent Bugliosi] eight years in the Los Angeles County District Attorney's Office, he successfully prosecuted 105 out of 106 felony jury trials, best known for prosecuting Charles Manson. He is also a best selling author.' You don't get a 99% conviction rate by being honest, I would say this wouldn't be a great choice of person to put ANY faith in really. I MUCH prefer Colin McLaren's take, an ex police investigator who took on the "case" in his retirement as if it were any other cold case in his book, JFK: The Smoking Gun. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Bugliosi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincent_Bugliosi [2] https://www.amazon.com/JFK-Smoking-Gun-Colin-McLaren/dp/1743179537 https://www.amazon.com/JFK-Smoking-Gun-Colin-McLaren/dp/1743...
- pwned1 5y agoSorry, but "he's not honest because I say so" isn't an argument. Let's say he isn't honest. Ok. His citations and endnotes themselves are hundreds of pages (I think over 1,000 pages). I've frequently checked many of them, because I was curious about this or that topic. Nothing was out of context or false. On the other hand, I frequently will look at quotations or documents cited by the conspiracists and more often then not the quote is either 1) out of context or lacking important context, or 2) false.
- jldl805 5y agoIf you're trying to convince people that you're a rational investigator, not batshit conspiracy theorist, making blanket dismissive judgements about his lack of honesty based on your subjective interpretation of his conviction rate is not going to help.
- d1a2n 5y ago"subjective interpretation" god you guys are so pretentious. You try so hard to sound like a smarty pants that you'll throw in fancy sounding language for the sake of it. The guy has an interpretation, it is subjective because it is his, contrast with "objective" interpretation which means interpretation you think is correct. But you use "subjective" rhetorically to suggest that it is a property of his argument that makes it weak rather than a label you give it after reflexively recoiling because someone has contradicted your scientistic, trust the experts, "the government wouldn't lie to me, praise the state!" ideology
- pwned1 5y agoAfter dumps of millions and millions of records, still no one can point to anything even close to a "smoking gun" that anyone other than Oswald killed the president.
- dj_gitmo 5y agoThere are a lot of goofy theories about the JFK assassination, but I don't think you can dismiss all of them. The theory that makes the most sense to me is that Oswald was part of it, but that he also was set up to be the fall guy. There is evidence that Oswald was recruited by US intelligence when he was a teen in the Civil Air Patrol, and that he had gone to the Soviet Union as a false defector (the Soviets did the same to the US). He was part of operation to kill JFK, but then he was set up to be the fall guy behind his back. He claimed he was a patsy before he was he was killed. If he wasn't working for the government than some of his actions and associations before the assassination are just baffling. It's also a mystery why he was able to return to the US without any issues after defecting. https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/1290 https://www.kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-articles/1290 https://jfkfacts.org/was-oswald-a-cia-operative-or-not/ https://jfkfacts.org/was-oswald-a-cia-operative-or-not/
- pwned1 5y agoI think it's completely legit to question Oswald and his history. It is just weird. I agree. Was he part of a larger conspiracy? I don't know. I sort of doubt it after reading a lot about his early life. But I have no doubt he pulled the trigger and killed the president. I think it's possible that the gov't tried very hard to cover up the fact that he was under surveillance because of his strange past. But I'm not sure we'll ever know. I know that after so many docs have been released, there is no smoking gun. When it comes to the patsy argument, read about his interrogation and the cops who interrogated him. The notes are very illuminating. Oswald clearly behaved in a guilty way. Very smug. Remember that his entire life he thought he was destined for something big. He even called his diary "My Historical Diary." He was a loser that needed to do something to be relevant.
- xtracto 5y ago
- adamnemecek 5y agoWhat’s not mentioned enough is that Lee Harvey Oswald lived in Soviet Union for like three years.
- emerged 5y agoI did it, but you’ll never get me to confess!
- nextstep 5y agoOliver Stone has a new documentary this year with more information from newly declassified documents: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/JFK_Revisited:_Through_the_Looking_Glass https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/JFK_Revisited:_Through_the_L... Most interesting is the similar almost-assassinations that were tipped off in the months leading up to Dallas. Similar story, with a CIA asset like Oswald thinking they were tipping off secret service but were likely being setup as the fall guy. More information on why the Secret Service didn’t acknowledge (and buried) these very similar events in the 1963 FBI investigation and for the Warren commission is probably in the documents that the Biden again delayed declassifying this year. But anyway, it is amazing how many Americans still seem to think there’s some doubt that this was a coup. The US is a very well-propagandized nation. The country has an agency that specializes in regime change, and a president that was very actively trying to reel in this agency was shot in the head. And then the guy they pinned it on was shot in broad daylight as well. And then the president’s brother was running for election, loudly talking about opening up the investigation to his brother’s death and he was also shot. But it’s somehow crazy talk to think any of this might be connected!
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- donclark 5y agoWhy do we not have an answer from 4chan yet?
- 0KnowledgeGoof 5y agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29571215 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29571215 @dang, if this comment violates the site rules and deserves to be flagged, then this whole topic violates site rules. You show preference to a particular narrative and are not impartial. Look up Fred Hampton — a genuine conspiracy admitted by the FBI. Is the establishment’s villainization of the left not on topic in this thread?
- regnull 5y agoThe facts are, Nikita Khrushchev was humiliated by the outcome of the Cuban missile crisis. Oswald lived in USSR, came back to the US to discover that nobody really cares, and was eager to gain some sort of celebrity status. He was also nuts. Could the Soviet Union know about his plans and give him some help? Possibly. This would also explain the secrecy around the documents. Any decisive knowledge that a foreign country had a major role in an assassination of an American president would lead to a war between two nuclear nations. We probably wouldn't know until the last documents are declassified.
- nextstep 5y agoThe facts are that Oswald was working for US intelligence his entire career and was not the one who actually pulled the trigger to kill Kennedy. The official position of the US government is that there was a plot amongst many individuals ie. a conspiracy to assassinate the president.
- StanislavPetrov 5y agoAnyone who wants to take a deep dive into one of the more fascinating and under-discussed aspects of the JFK assassination should look into the murder of Mary Pinchot Meyer. She was married to CIA agent Cord Meyer and was also romantically involved with JFK. She was murdered in Washington DC less than a year after JFK (a murder that remains unsolved). Following her murder, her sister's husband Ben Bradlee (long time editor of the Washington Post) went to her house to get her diary. Upon arrival he found James Jesus Angleton (then CIA counterintelligence chief) burglarizing the house and searching for the diary. Bradlee retrieved the diary and handed it over to Angleton, who subsequently burned it. During the trial of Ben Crump (a black man who was tried and acquitted for the murder of Meyer), neither Bradlee or Angleton ever mentioned the existence of the diary or their role in destroying it. Its a fascinating rabbit hole that raises more questions than it answers and is worth checking out for anyone interested in the subject.
- shrimpx 5y agoThanks, I read the Wikipedia article. I get the impression that the US politics and intelligence of that era were just such nasty and morally corrupt environments. The affairs, the drugs, the secret service and CIA henchmen acting like criminal cleanup crews. The chief of CIA counterintelligence personally picking a lock like a petty vagrant, to destroy a diary detailing JFK’s drug-filled sexual escapades that were set up by the SS in the White House. Holy shit. No wonder we have so many conspiracy theories from that era.
- 0KnowledgeGoof 5y agoyeah, douche