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All TV's are dumb tv's if you only use them as an external display/monitor and don't connect them to the net. I have a dedicated computer for a media center and
by cronix 5y ago
All TV's are dumb tv's if you only use them as an external display/monitor and don't connect them to the net. I have a dedicated computer for a media center and just use HDMI1 input on the TV. Never enter menus. Never update the OS. Never agree to anything. Never let the TV "phone home." Never set up wifi. Never connect a CAT5 to it. Set the input using the remote and forget it. Treat it as a dumb monitor. Computer is connected to the net, TV is not and has no way to access it.
- KETpXDDzR 5y agoMy Vizio TV's settings can only be changed with a phone app. It comes with a regular remote, but there's no button for entering the settings menu. For the app to work, it requires to be in the same WiFi. I dodged the bullet by setting up a restricted WiFi (no internet), but that shows how TV manufacturers try to force you in connecting your TV to the Internet.
- Arrath 5y agoOh wow. That is a new low.
- jonnycoder 5y agoHow old is your Vizio? All modern Vizio tvs in the past 6 years have a remote with a Menu button. And they ask for accepting Privacy Policy before you can connect to wifi. You can very easily avoid connecting a Vizio to a network and just use it as a dumb tv.
- terinjokes 5y agoI have a 2016 model Vizio that came with a very simple remote without a menu button, expecting you to use a mobile app for all settings. They made a more complete remote available 18 months later as a separate purchase. If you didn't buy the remote you could get softlocked not being able to navigate away from the Smartcast channel. While the remote does have a menu button, many settings continue to be available only via the mobile app.
- ArchOversight 5y agoI just got a new Vizio, I only connected it long enough for it download the latest firmware, and then neutered it by removing the Ethernet cable. You can bypass the acceptance of the privacy policy entirely and it just disables all the smart features (can't use any of the apps or cast to it with Airplay or Google Cast), but will still download firmware updates and install them. From the network capture I did on it, if you don't accept the policies it only reaches out to the update servers for the firmware, and that's it. Nothing else.
- persedes 5y agoHas Vizios software gotten any better? I had a 2019 model and the software (had mine offline/neutered too) was too shitty to even use it as a dumb TV. For example it would randomly reboot while we were watching something via the HDMI input or it almost always took multiple restarts to properly recognize the Vizio sound bar...
- ArchOversight 5y agoI got the new TV three days ago... I'll let you know once I've spent more time with it? As of right now I have an Apple TV hooked up with my Vizio sounder and it all works really well. Have had no issues.
- alx__ 5y agoYes, the key being never let it connect to the internet
- ssully 5y agoI would check what TV you have and what patches are available. I have a smart Sony TV, but I've only connected it to a network twice to get patches. I did so once because it fixed an audio issue that was very annoying.
- deergomoo 5y agoYou can often download patches to a USB stick and install them from that.
- jiveturkey 5y agonot all. some require a network connection at least to get started. some find an open network and connect "for you"
- johnklos 5y agoAnything that requires a network connection should be returned, period.
- TheDudeMan 5y agoAnd some bombard you with "helpful reminders" to set up networking.
- Scoundreller 5y agoI think Gmail.com has asked me about 500 times to try their app and I’ve said “I am not interested” 500 times in a row. But they seem to have a good feeling about tomorrow.
- rdtwo 5y agoOne day you will misclick and then they have you
- Scoundreller 5y agoI need to convince the next generation of judges that 1/500th consent is not full and complete consent!
- cube00 5y agoSame as YouTube Premium, I thought if I did their free trial they're stop bugging me, nope, now I get the same prompts straight up asking me to pay now.
- bryanrasmussen 5y ago>Never enter menus. Never update the OS. Never agree to anything. Never let the TV "phone home." Never set up wifi. Never connect a CAT5 to it. Set the input using the remote and forget it. Treat it as a dumb monitor. Computer is connected to the net, TV is not and has no way to access it. so, are there any TVs where this is not possible? For example as part of turning on there is a setup procedure that makes it phone home and connect to wifi? If so (I wouldn't know but I would expect because natural cynicism) then the question naturally becomes what TVs is what you suggest actually possible on. on edit: I see jiveturkey just posted that in fact what I suspect would be the case of difficulty to keep it from connecting is often the case https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29383963 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29383963
- Benjammer 5y agoI have seen stories of smart TVs doing active scans for any unsecured wifi network in range, then connecting and phoning home without ever informing the user or showing anything in the menus. Is that a real thing?
- FearlessNebula 5y agoNot only this, but how long until they start including a cheap modem and paying for their own cellular connectivity?
- 1121redblackgo 5y agoMy god damn CPAP machine does this. Insurance required the modem in order for them to pay for it.
- myrandomcomment 5y agoThere a number of guides on disabling this. That being said you still need to bring the SD card to doctor every 6 months for review. This is a good thing. The doctor is trying to help you. I know someone that died because they went on a trip and forgot their CPAP and just stopped breathing in the middle of the night and did not wake up. It happens. When you get a CPAP there is a reason. Take it seriously. If you are having issues because of physically fixable issues there are surgeries that can help (I had 2 things fixed). Most of the time however its just being fat and physical. Loosing the weight helps and the effect can be tracked in the data the CPAP collects. The doctor can then use the data to adjust then pressure down. I am speaking from experience. My pressure setting has dropped as I took off the beer gut. This time next year I will likely be able to be done with it.
- Benjammer 5y agoUgh this is way worse and actually seems far more likely and easy to accomplish than the public wifi thing...
- 5y ago
- olliej 5y agoWe have the dumbest modern TV I could find, it routinely decides to ask us to agree to the T&Cs again, and complains about not being connected to the internet. The problem isn't just that they want to be connected tot he internet, it's that that they're terribly written buggy bloatware devices that glitch continuously when not connected to the internet. Of course from what others have said it seems like they're also glitchy and terrible when connected to the internet?
- Volundr 5y agoThat's sadly not really true. I have an LG that I (thought) I was using this way until one day in the middle of watching some TV I get a prompt about a OnePlus phone trying to control my TV, do I want to accept? Needless to say and didn't, but I was baffled by what happened. Turns out that the stupid TV is controllable via an app over bluetooth, and there is no way to turn bluetooth off. I'm just stuck with my TV constantly advertising it's presence to everything around it.
- goatcode 5y agoIf this is an argument that all TVs are smart TVs, then all TVs with an IR control input device are smart TVs (because universal remotes).
- isoprophlex 5y agoNo of course not. The moment you - possibly accidentally - grant the fucker an internet connection over BT, it starts to rat on you. However briefly. Aything with an IR remote does not betrays it's users like that (through the remote)
- gopalv 5y ago> grant the fucker an internet connection over BT, it starts to rat on you Or it does that by itself, with a mesh network that your neighbours have setup by accident with their Alexa or Ring - Amazon Sidewalk is an amazing end-run around your own firewall rules.
- isoprophlex 5y agoThanks for giving me another invention to be angry about, haha. Makes you wonder about the opportunities for poisoning of Sidewalk networks, just to get some petty revenge.
- clairity 5y ago
- yholio 5y agoTo second this advice, I have a 4 year old 75" Sony Bravia that I did not connect to the internet in any way, despite being an Android device. I have updated the firmware using the instructions on the Sony website, downloaded a package, extracted on a USB stick and let the TV boot on that. Figured it's best to have an up to date operating system for bug fixes, security updates, file format support etc. Never intend to use the "smart" features on the TV, internet browsing, Netflix etc., I handle that perfectly with my "broken lid" laptop, which is a well maintained machine, typing these very words on it. So I can vouch that at least for Sony TVs in the KD or KDL series XD, XE, XF, XG (most of them launched a few years ago), you can use them just fine without internet, and you can even update them. You can also turn off Bluetooth and prevent the TV from advertising its presence. Don't know about the newer OLED and QLED devices, you should try them on in the store.
- pwdisswordfish9 5y agoWhat do you need security updates for if you don’t connect it to the Internet?
- tomnipotent 5y agoUpdates include more than just security fixes.
- spurgu 5y agoYes but to nitpick he already mentioned bugfixes and file format support alongside security fixes (which he wouldn't/shouldn't need). :)
- yholio 5y agoI disagree. You can have security bugs in non-connected devices, for example crafted file formats or metadata that can carry executable payload, worms that force their way in though some insecure Bluetooth receiver, or even by infecting the myriad data channels embedded in modern broadcasting; access to such a broadcast stream might be very lucrative since it will give you access to tens of thousands to tens of millions of devices. I agree that the target is low value and that the attacker will most likely not bother infecting Android TVs; he would need to force them to connect to WiFi to exfiltrate any data, a very complex and unlikely attack if your TV is not used to monitor uranium centrifuge data.
- thayne 5y agoIf nothing else, it's one more thing in the TV that can break down, and probably add a little bit to the energy consumption of the TV. And if the trend continues, how long until your TV doesn't work at all unless it is connected to the internet?
- davesmylie 5y agowell, until your neighbours set up an open wifi network, or a house member / guest sets up a temporary wifi hotspot with no password. Most TV's will lock on any open wifi network given the chance - and that's all it takes to upload saved data and pull down updates and ads etc
- spear 5y ago> Never update the OS. Unless there are new features or fixes you want. My TV needed updates to support Dolby Vision and to fix ARC/CEC bugs. More recent TVs have required updates to support HDMI 2.1 features. At least you can download the firmware separately and update through USB instead of a network update.
- Scoundreller 5y agoWhat’s stopping the TV from taking OTA updates through data sub-channels on TV channels? Satellite receivers have had this type of capability for a few decades.
- kazinator 5y agoThat's something that seems like would be feasible in a more monolithic world of broadcasting, and smaller firmwares. They could probably simply broadcast various firmwares at different times; then if the TV detected "hey, that is for me", it could capture the packets. It's hard to imagine streaming services like YouTube, NetFlix and whoever agreeing to do anything of that sort. Indeed, my guess is right about this seems to be in the right ballpark: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_and_object_carousel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_and_object_carousel
- mindslight 5y agoIf you're still relying on DRM functionality, a DRMed source could suddenly demand you upgrade the firmware and refuse to work until you do.
- kazinator 5y agoHow about the remote control? My dumb TV's remote is so simple, it has room for a dedicated button for each HDMI input. I don't have to go through any on-screen widget to pick an input: just hit a physical button on the remote dedicated to going to that HDMI input. Cycling through picture modes is just a button also. Never enter menus? What if you'd like to adjust something related to the display; sharpness or something.
- GistNoesis 5y agoI guess if the TV really want to exfiltrate data, it can speak via HDMI-CEC to all peripherals connected to it. For example if you have an TV-Box or a game-station, it probably can send it remote control commands to the TV-Box, so it can have the same user interface than you have on your TV-Box (which quite often even when it's connected in Ethernet, can display on the screen the wifi password, or surf the web). There are also quite often free public wifi in the neighborhoods. Bluetooth may also be an option. Or they can just add a cellular network to get your data. Or maybe they can create a wifi mesh network between nearby TVs and share the internet if one has access to it.
- bradgessler 5y agoKinda? You still have to wait for the TV to boot.
- catwoe 5y agoHow can you access "Press the Red button" content on a dumb TV though? Is there a software client that can access the content over http? edit: I believe it's called HbbTV
- rasz 5y agoSmart TVs boot slower, display stupid elaborate graphics and menus when doing simple things, and have slow clunky UIs.
- xyzzy21 5y agoExactly! No need to have anything but HDMI and power connected.