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Pro-tip: use a DNS provider that can block ads (e.g. NextDNS) or install Pi-Hole in your local network, and block Samsung's ad network domains. It's sad that t

Pro-tip: use a DNS provider that can block ads (e.g. NextDNS) or install Pi-Hole in your local network, and block Samsung's ad network domains. It's sad that this is necessary to keep enjoying a device of $2,000+ that you own, but it has worked beautifully for my Samsung Frame TV.

josteink 5y ago
Samsung does this for their top end models? WTF! I’ll put them on my list of devices to never buy then. Jeez.
- patrickk 5y ago
  Samsung boasts about having Automatic Content Recognition[1] on their website. There was a discussion on HN some time ago, many/all major tv manufacturers suck in your viewing data via HDMI fingerprinting (IIRC) in order to serve up unblockable ads and sell your viewing profile to ad networks. Many tv makers send data to Chinese based servers too, from memory. It’s nuts. [1]https://www.samsung.com/us/business/samsungads/resources/tv-ad-retargeting/ https://www.samsung.com/us/business/samsungads/resources/tv-... Edit, more reading: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/09/18/you-watch-tv-your-tv-watches-back/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/09/18/you-wat...
- ornornor 5y ago
  They do a lot more than that. In particular, they take a screenshot of what you’re currently watching at regular intervals and send it to a content recognition server. That way they’re able to tell what every single Samsung owner is watching at any given time and even if you’re watching a show you downloaded or something that’s not on the air. They then sell this data to broadcasters for measuring audience but also to show you ads related to what you’re watching (if you watched ice age, maybe they’ll advertise another animation movie to you). And they also use that data to target you on other devices you own because they’re able to use your tv as a Trojan horse and figure out what other devices are on your network and thus belong to the same person. IIRC they also scan and extract what devices are connected to hdmi ports so they know what consoles etc you’re using to further complete your advertising profile. That was several years ago, I can’t imagine they’ve gotten anything but even more data greedy over time. A good Samsung tv is an offline Samsung tv. A better Samsung tv is one you don’t own.
  - fnord123 5y ago
    This is gonna be some hefty GDPR fines in Europe.
    - null_object 5y ago
      > This is gonna be some hefty GDPR fines in Europe. I keep hoping this is gonna be the case, but the years roll on, I'm still clicking some stupid consent-popup on every single website I ever visit, and in the meantime TV manufacturers continuously spy on their users, sell their user-data, and push unwanted ads into their interface and even in programs being watched, and apparently no-one (apart from a few of us on HN) seems to care.
      - Nullabillity 5y ago
        For what it's worth, at least on my Swedish model, this seems to be gated behind an opt-in (default off!) consent toggle. It was buried in several layers of menus, and not even mentioned during the setup process. So I would assume that this is mostly an issue in non-GDPR regions (or they're doing some really ugly legal shenanigans to ignore the denied consent?).
        fnord123 5y ago
        "We have a '''legitimate interest''' in getting your personal info, because we want to sell it to third parties" https://www.gdpreu.org/the-regulation/key-concepts/legitimate-interest/ https://www.gdpreu.org/the-regulation/key-concepts/legitimat... > Legitimate interests is most appropriate as a lawful basis where companies use personal data in a way that individuals can reasonably expect. If it impacts individuals, it can still apply if the controller company can justify there is a compelling reason for the impact the processing will have. > Companies can rely on legitimate interests for marketing purposes if they can prove that the data usage is proportionate and fair to the user. It must have a minimal impact on the user in privacy terms and be for a reason that people would not be surprised at. Sadly I would reasonably expect Samsung to sell the data and I would not be surprised by it.
      - 5y ago
sneak 5y ago
Just don't connect your tv to any network, wired or wireless, ever. It's much simpler.
- slig 5y ago
  It works until every device has a 5G chip on them.
  - snvzz 5y ago
    Or your neighbor's tv has internet access, and relays telemetry for yours.
  - konfusinomicon 5y ago
    then the pi hole won't even save you. we're going to need to go full on Faraday cage to escape their prying eyes!
  - burnt_toast 5y ago
    If it comes to that point I will open my devices and cut the antennas
    - yardstick 5y ago
      Or extract the eSIM / figure out a way to use it for free internet like some did with Amazon Kindle SIMs.
    - slig 5y ago
      And then you'll ruin your warrant.
      - burnt_toast 5y ago
        Warranty doesn't mean much to me. I'm an outlier who enjoys repairing their own devices. I recently repaired a week old laptop that arrived faulty (trackpad was messed up) instead of mailing it back. I'd only cut the antennas in a last case scenario. It's more likely they'd have a connector or I'd try to de-solder them first.

josteink 5y ago

Samsung does this for their top end models? WTF! I’ll put them on my list of devices to never buy then. Jeez.

patrickk 5y ago
Samsung boasts about having Automatic Content Recognition[1] on their website. There was a discussion on HN some time ago, many/all major tv manufacturers suck in your viewing data via HDMI fingerprinting (IIRC) in order to serve up unblockable ads and sell your viewing profile to ad networks. Many tv makers send data to Chinese based servers too, from memory. It’s nuts. [1]https://www.samsung.com/us/business/samsungads/resources/tv-ad-retargeting/ https://www.samsung.com/us/business/samsungads/resources/tv-... Edit, more reading: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/09/18/you-watch-tv-your-tv-watches-back/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/09/18/you-wat...
ornornor 5y ago
They do a lot more than that. In particular, they take a screenshot of what you’re currently watching at regular intervals and send it to a content recognition server. That way they’re able to tell what every single Samsung owner is watching at any given time and even if you’re watching a show you downloaded or something that’s not on the air. They then sell this data to broadcasters for measuring audience but also to show you ads related to what you’re watching (if you watched ice age, maybe they’ll advertise another animation movie to you). And they also use that data to target you on other devices you own because they’re able to use your tv as a Trojan horse and figure out what other devices are on your network and thus belong to the same person. IIRC they also scan and extract what devices are connected to hdmi ports so they know what consoles etc you’re using to further complete your advertising profile. That was several years ago, I can’t imagine they’ve gotten anything but even more data greedy over time. A good Samsung tv is an offline Samsung tv. A better Samsung tv is one you don’t own.
- fnord123 5y ago
  This is gonna be some hefty GDPR fines in Europe.
  - null_object 5y ago
    > This is gonna be some hefty GDPR fines in Europe. I keep hoping this is gonna be the case, but the years roll on, I'm still clicking some stupid consent-popup on every single website I ever visit, and in the meantime TV manufacturers continuously spy on their users, sell their user-data, and push unwanted ads into their interface and even in programs being watched, and apparently no-one (apart from a few of us on HN) seems to care.
    - Nullabillity 5y ago
      For what it's worth, at least on my Swedish model, this seems to be gated behind an opt-in (default off!) consent toggle. It was buried in several layers of menus, and not even mentioned during the setup process. So I would assume that this is mostly an issue in non-GDPR regions (or they're doing some really ugly legal shenanigans to ignore the denied consent?).
      - fnord123 5y ago
        "We have a '''legitimate interest''' in getting your personal info, because we want to sell it to third parties" https://www.gdpreu.org/the-regulation/key-concepts/legitimate-interest/ https://www.gdpreu.org/the-regulation/key-concepts/legitimat... > Legitimate interests is most appropriate as a lawful basis where companies use personal data in a way that individuals can reasonably expect. If it impacts individuals, it can still apply if the controller company can justify there is a compelling reason for the impact the processing will have. > Companies can rely on legitimate interests for marketing purposes if they can prove that the data usage is proportionate and fair to the user. It must have a minimal impact on the user in privacy terms and be for a reason that people would not be surprised at. Sadly I would reasonably expect Samsung to sell the data and I would not be surprised by it.
    - 5y ago

sneak 5y ago

Just don't connect your tv to any network, wired or wireless, ever. It's much simpler.

slig 5y ago
It works until every device has a 5G chip on them.
- snvzz 5y ago
  Or your neighbor's tv has internet access, and relays telemetry for yours.
- konfusinomicon 5y ago
  then the pi hole won't even save you. we're going to need to go full on Faraday cage to escape their prying eyes!
- burnt_toast 5y ago
  If it comes to that point I will open my devices and cut the antennas
  - yardstick 5y ago
    Or extract the eSIM / figure out a way to use it for free internet like some did with Amazon Kindle SIMs.
  - slig 5y ago
    And then you'll ruin your warrant.
    - burnt_toast 5y ago
      Warranty doesn't mean much to me. I'm an outlier who enjoys repairing their own devices. I recently repaired a week old laptop that arrived faulty (trackpad was messed up) instead of mailing it back. I'd only cut the antennas in a last case scenario. It's more likely they'd have a connector or I'd try to de-solder them first.