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Buying an ebike

199 points by jseliger 5y ago

bullen 5y ago
You should get an ebike that has regenerative breaking, not because it's safer/better but because it does not wear anything (except the tyres, hard to avoid that) down when breaking since it's magnetic.
- Reason077 5y ago
  Not really. Regenerative braking is quite unusual in e-bikes as it requires a “direct drive” motor, and that comes with some of its own disadvantages. Heavier, don’t accelerate as fast, can’t “freewheel” like a traditional bicycle, etc. Now days, most riders (and manufacturers!) seem to prefer geared hub and mid-drive motors.
  - bullen 5y ago
    True but it's also simpler and if you are building something to replace your car (replacing your bike is not interesting since you should use that instead) those are not disadvantages, see: http://elhjul.se http://elhjul.se
0xcoffee 5y ago
Personally I love the look of the Rad Runner. Only reason I don't buy one is because cycling as my commute is a great fitness for me, and going electric I would lose that. However I really feel that for 1000+ euros, a chain guard and fenders should really be included by default.
- Filligree 5y ago
  > Only reason I don't buy one is because cycling as my commute is a great fitness for me, and going electric I would lose that. People vary, of course, but my own experience is I ended up getting a lot more exercise after going electric. I go on longer trips, and since I'm not scared of ending up 'stranded' from being exhausted somewhere far from home, I do it more often and put more power into the pedals. Of course that means going faster, but that just means I get to see more of the terrain.
lostgame 5y ago
I would like a similar list for e-scooters. Does anyone here happen have recommendations for solid and - importantly - affordable e-scooters? I’m in the market, but clueless as to what actual quality models are.
- burgerzzz 5y ago
  I’ve really enjoyed my Super 73. Good range, speed and really fun to ride. Recently I turned it on and the battery started smoking and from all appearances was about to explode. Thankfully it didn’t. And although it took awhile to get the line of communications straight, they are replacing the entire bike and shipping should only take a week or so.
  - blablabla123 5y ago
    I really wonder about the whole battery thing and if it's somehow deterministic. Has there been any mechanical shock, deep discharge or unusual temperature exposure? FWIW, there are special battery bags.
- lmm 5y ago
  What do you mean by "scooter"? One of the ones in the article is the Segway c80, is that what you're after?
- Toutouxc 5y ago
  Scooter as in kick-scooter, or a small motorcycle?
  - timbit42 5y ago
    I'd like to find an electric version of a Vespa scooter that can do 50 km/h. Most ebikes max out at 25 or 35 km/h so the driver doesn't need a license to drive it.
    - grzm 5y ago
      I'd love to have an electric version of the Honda Super Cub. Good carrying capacity for around-about, not as large as a full-sized motorcycle. Dunno if it's available in the US yet.
emodendroket 5y ago
> They will be a big driver of shifting more car trips to other modes. And shifting more families to owning fewer, or even no cars. When we need fewer cars, that means we can build less parking, which lowers prices at grocery stores, restaurants, and other places. It lets us build things closer together, allowing us to build what consumers want — walkable neighborhoods like Culdesac Tempe. Simply put, the biggest impediment to me using a bicycle now is that I don't really feel safe taking a bicycle to most places I want to go (or at least I'd have to carefully plan my route in a way that I don't to drive). E-bikes could help me cover a bigger range but I don't think they're going to solve that problem.
- lmm 5y ago
  > E-bikes could help me cover a bigger range but I don't think they're going to solve that problem. Popularity is the solution to that though, and e-bikes help with that. As more people shift from cars to bikes we can and should narrow roads and lower speed limits, which will in turn help more people shift from cars to bikes, and so on.
  - emodendroket 5y ago
    They could just end up in a similar place to bikes now, enjoyed primarily for recreation rather than as a practical means of transportation.
    - lmm 5y ago
      (FWIW that's not at all true where I live: bikes here are practical transport first, recreation is the exception rather than the rule). The article addresses that: ebikes don't have much advantage over a regular bike for recreation, they're popular because of their practicality advantages.
      - emodendroket 5y ago
        I wouldn’t say that. They’re good if you want to bike with someone more experienced, or over terrain tougher than you’re used to.
johnyzee 5y ago
We have had two e-bikes in three years, both were stolen within six months. We even take the battery when leaving the bike (in both cases the theft happened one of the few times we didn't). Obviously the bikes were locked. This happens a lot with expensive regular bikes, too. I have had several bikes stolen while securely locked to an immovable object, like a lamp post. The article does make a brief callout to 'anti-theft', and yeah, can confirm that this is important, but not sure what the best approach is. Maybe some huge honking alarm, like for cars. Expensive cargo bikes even have GPS tracking on some of them now. Simply locking the bike is unfortunately not enough.
- adrianN 5y ago
  Bike thieves are often specialized an a particular kind of lock, so that it helps if you have two locks, e.g. a chain and a U-lock, from different makers. You can also buy GPS trackers for bikes that don't have them. I don't know any good solutions for preventing theft of parts.
  - tonyedgecombe 5y ago
    I imagine a ring lock[1] alongside a traditional U-lock might be good as it would be quite difficult to remove without causing damage. [1] https://www.axasecurity.com/bike-security/en-gb/products/Locks/8/586400560X05SC/axa-imenso-large https://www.axasecurity.com/bike-security/en-gb/products/Loc...
    - olau 5y ago
      I think the pro thieves just grab the bike and put it in a van. They look relatively easy to remove with a few tools in workshop. Perhaps you can simply lock pick them, with some practice. But they do protect against casual thieves, the ones who just grab a bike for fun, or they are drunk and need to get home, or something like that. I've had a ring lock on my bike for decades. But then the last couple of decades the bike hasn't been in a state where the pro thieves could get any money from it. :) And actually, I think this is the best protection: Work on reducing production cost of bikes. Most of them seem ridiculously expensive for the material that goes into them.
hr2016 5y ago
I've been using an E-bike for the last year and a half in my small town. It basically removes all the tediousness of bad weather from biking and ascending. I don't need to cover great distances everyday for work, groceries or kindergarten runs but it's been breeze on the bike. Yesterday I rode through 5-10 cm of fresh snow, with a child in a bike trailer. I got a model with large tires and a bit of a front suspension, so it's an all-round bike. I can easily explore trails and nature, most of the time with a child mounted on the bike, while it's still very nice to ride around town. High quality studded tires make it safer and easier to bike than walk during icy conditions. Give it a shot, it's really nice.
- patrickk 5y ago
  A bike trailer paired with an ebike opens up all kinds of possibilities, like bringing home groceries, carrying your pet dog (!!)[1], going picnicking, etc. with or without a child in the trailer. It can eliminate the need for a car for these short trips as you mention. [1] https://ampedcycling.com/how-to-use-a-dog-bike-trailer-with-your-e-bike/ https://ampedcycling.com/how-to-use-a-dog-bike-trailer-with-...
rolleiflex 5y ago
This is cool, but I’d love to see a comparison of ebikes against good old dinosaur-juice (or even electric) motorcycles. Much more difficult to steal, and for gasoline motorcycles, much better mileage per charge, charging to 100% takes 30 seconds, can go as fast as you have the guts for, much more stable at speed, almost as easy parking, can go on highways. Almost as cheap fuel as electricity with the smaller end of motorcycles doing 90+mpg. In California, you can also lane split, which makes motorcycles effectively transparent to traffic. On the minus side, you do need a license and insurance for it, and the bar for hand-eye coordination is higher — there are more people on the planet that should not touch a motorcycle than those that shouldn’t do bikes.
- gregors 5y ago
  motorcycle vs ebike - from a safety standpoint - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM8Xli2KTzI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM8Xli2KTzI
- rich_sasha 5y ago
  As a keen cyclist who almost got a motorbike license, one massive difference is that a bike weight 10kg (ebike lets say 20) whereas a motorbike upwards of 100, or thereabouts. I think in traffic you are fairly vulnerable to both, but on a bike, at least if you fall, you don’t have the insult of your own vehicle crushing you as well as whatever obstacle / other vehicle you hit.
  - rolleiflex 5y ago
    Yeah, that makes sense. I’m on both sides on this one, I have two motorcycles, one electric scooter and one electric skateboard. Motorcycles are by far the heaviest thing. On the other hand, many motorcycles come with sacrifical rubber ‘sliders’ where if a motorcycle is dropped to the ground, the only thing that touches the ground is still the wheels and the rubber sliders on the dropped side. The slider itself is a block of rubber and it’s $10 to replace when ground down sufficiently to a nub. I’ve found weight to be a less of a problem than I expected in practice.
  - storyinmemo 5y ago
siva7 5y ago
You have to get a theft insurance for your ebike. A lock is no replacement for that. That’s the most important rule for owning an ebike.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  Another good way of dealing with this is to ensure that you don't leave the bike on the street unattended, figure out where the guarded bike parking spots are in your town, and if you can't get a spot like that maybe only take your e-bike between locations where you are in control of the space (home, work, for instance). And keep a cheap runabout for short trips to places where your bike will be unattended on the street. The Dutch form for reporting a bike theft to the police starts with the sentence 'where did you steal the bike' ;)
  - microtonal 5y ago
    Another good way of dealing with this is to ensure that you don't leave the bike on the street unattended, figure out where the guarded bike parking spots are in your town, and if you can't get a spot like that maybe only take your e-bike between locations where you are in control of the space (home, work, for instance). Well, my wife's eBike was stolen after only a few months from the parking garage of our apartment complex, which is locked and has cameras (and obviously, the bike was locked). Thieves just wait outside with a van, drive in when some resident drives in, block the view of the camera with their van. Throw in a few eBikes and drive away. Preventing theft is all about making it harder to steal your bike than everyone else's. - Get bike insurance with a tracker. A visible tracker will make your bike less attractive to steal. Even when they steal it, they often put bikes with a tracker in a cool-off location near the place of the theft to check that no-one is using the tracker. So, very often, you'll have the bike back pretty quickly, because the insurance company finds it at the cool-off spot. If all those measures fail, the insurance company will cover the cost of a new bike (though bikes are sometimes hard to get during the pandemic). - Always use two locks. Make sure that both the front and rear wheel are locked (to avoid wheel theft) and ensure that at least for at least one of the wheels is attached to the frame with a lock. - Always attach your bike frame to a sturdy, unmovable object with a heavy duty chain lock. Again, in a lot of cases, the thieves will just throw your bike in a van and remove the locks elsewhere. If your bike is attached to e.g. a lamppost and it takes them some time to cut the lock, getting caught is a risk that they may want to avoid. Especially when there are other bikes to be stolen more easily in the vicinity.
jacquesm 5y ago
Most of these are high maintenance or fashion items. The Urban Arrow is ok, as is the van Moof, but a couple of simple and practical e-bikes would have been good to add as well as to explain in more detail the difference between the three different drive train options that you have at the moment (vario drive, derailleur and in-hub shifting). The Koga e-nova line is pretty good, and you should definitely shop around to see if you can find the bike you are looking for on the second hand market, e-bikes are in many cases ridiculously overpriced and getting a second hand one is fine, people will buy them and try them, don't like them for whatever reason and then sell them again usually at a substantial hit off the original list price. Make sure the warranty is transferable.
- rich_sasha 5y ago
  I have an electric Bakfiets, the granddaddy of cargo bikes, and so far is has been zero maintenance. It’s built for it too; steel frame, drum brakes, covered chain, thick anti-puncture tires etc. Which incidentally does mean that the rare maintenance will be a bigger job, but it can be sorted at the once-a-year service.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    Watch the main pivotal bearing on those, they need frequent inspection, cleaning and greasing up. Once they go it can really wreck your day and they are hard to replace, maintenance is key there. The easiest way to work on those I've found is to put the bike on blocks on it's side while supporting the rear frame separately. If you flip it completely it is harder to work on because the bearing will be under pressure again so it gets harder to check for slop and to tighten it up.
    - fulafel 5y ago
      Do you mean hard to replace DiY or hard to get done in a shop?
DeathArrow 5y ago
I live in a climate where summers are very hot and winters are really cold. There are also rainy days. That doesn't live a lot of time when I can use a bike, maybe half an year. Also, the City I live in has lots of traffic and I don't feel safe riding a bike. Also, riding a bike isn't comfortable on long distances, you can't go to shopping, you can't get your family on a bike and get somewhere. I don't see bikes replacing cars, mainly augmenting them. If I'd have to chose, I would feel safer on a motorbike or scooter than on a bike.
- moonchrome 5y ago
  >If I'd have to chose, I would feel safer on a motorbike or scooter than on a bike. Why ? I drive a motorcycle and just on the weight difference is significantly more risky - if you tip over an ebike it's a minor inconvenience, if you tip over a 200kg bike you could injure yourself just trying to catch it. I don't think the two compare other than they can both be used for short commutes, but you're likely not getting a motorcycle just for that, driving and owning a motorcycle is way more involved. Scooters are a more realistic comparison but ebikes theoretically let you use paths you shouldn't use with scooters.
  - somerandomqaguy 5y ago
    Not the person you're asking, but I kinda of agree with OP. The weight of a motorcycle's initially intimidating, but to me it feels much more stable and planted at most speeds and maneuvers. I have no real reason to believe it's objectively true, but it feels that way. And in some cases the weight can be an advantage. It's it more difficult to steal a 200kg motorcycle then it is to steal a 10 kg bicycle once you're at that destination. >I don't think the two compare other than they can both be used for short commutes, but you're likely not getting a motorcycle just for that, driving and owning a motorcycle is way more involved. Scooters are a more realistic comparison but ebikes theoretically let you use paths you shouldn't use with scooters. I kinda look at it the other way. A motorcycle gains access to major highways and freeways cyclists and pedestrians are prohibited from traversing on due being unable to cruise at 100+ kph while retaining a good chunk of the small size advantages that a bicycle has.
  - 5y ago
rich_sasha 5y ago
One thing where infrastructure and laws need to catch up is that while ebikes enjoy similar privileges to bikes (access to bike paths, use of mixed pedestrian/cyclist paths etc), many are basically electric scooters, way more powerful and heavy than any bike. In my town, you see a lot of full-fledged electric scooters with vestigial pedals for pretending it’s a bike (and it seems a togglable speed limiter). They then terrorise the kids and other less confident cyclists, or indeed pedestrians when they fancy like a ride on the pavement. That’s not great either. The premise of an ebike is something with similar power output to a push bike, just lower user power use. These e-not-really-bikes are dangerous to cyclists.
- bjackman 5y ago
  Here in Zürich, and I think many parts of Europe, the rule is simple: to be regulated like normal bikes the motor can't push you past 25km/h. With this limit I have not personally had any issues with E-Bikes/scooters being a hazard. On the other side of the coin, 25km/h is a bit slower than I ride my pushbike, but plenty fast enough to make E-Bikes/scooters an attractive solution. I'm pretty happy with this balance - my only gripe with the shared scooters is people park them inconsiderately.
  - rich_sasha 5y ago
    I think it’s a good law, and it’s the same in the UK, just not enforced at all. It spills over to other things electric, you have electric scooters zooming on pavements around school kids and unexpecting pedestrians, it’s terrible I think but totally ignored. It feels like electric mobility is prioritised over pedestrian safety. Maybe because the police think these scooters displace cars (so net safety win) but I still don’t like it.
    - dpatterbee 5y ago
      The UK (or at least my city) has a problem where a lot of places have just enough bike infrastructure to be dangerous. People can get some % of the way from A to B without trouble, but then resort to the pavement when they get to a busy road without proper infrastructure. Also doesn't help that many councils seem to think that shared bus/bicycle lanes are bicycle infrastructure.
khebbie 5y ago
I don’t see any, recumbent, trikes or velomobiles. Specifically the latter two are probably our best bets of replacing the car.
- timbit42 5y ago
  I like the Organic Transit ELF and Better Bikes PEBL. Both are enclosed recumbent trikes with a rear seat for an adult or two children and a trunk.
pizza234 5y ago
> I grab one of my mid-drives. But usually I grab one of my hub-drives. Why? A THROTTLE! Throttles are magic and give you the option of pedaling as little as zero. Not sure about there, but pedaling as little as zero is illegal in several countries. Besides, I own a mid-drive cargo bike, and had several hub-drives, and mid-drives are absolutely better: > Particularly for cargo bikes, a throttle is a major feature. You’ll appreciate it when you’re taking off from a standing stop with groceries or children on the back. with a mid-drive, taking off from a standing stop is smooth. if not putting energy at all is a concern, one can either make sure that reaches stopping points in a low gear, or just set the engine assist to the max. If one is so concerned about not putting effort, an e-scooter is a more fitting choice.
- busymom0 5y ago
  How does law enforcement check if you are pedalling or not?
  - pletnes 5y ago
    On my bikes (we have 2), the electronics controlling the motor only allows the motor to run when pedaling with some force. I guess law enforcement can see if you’re pedaling, if they have one eye open. If accidents happen, they can test equipment to ser if it’s illegaly imported / not approved / tampered with / etc. As usual, «don’t get caught» works up until a point. If you want to go fast, just get a motorbike. Why bother tampering with a pedelec?
    - glogla 5y ago
      > If you want to go fast, just get a motorbike. Why bother tampering with a pedelec? Because in a lot of places you're vastly less likely to be killed by a car on a cycle path on bike than on a road on motorbike. I mean I'm not sure it's good, since this will just gradually make the cycle paths less safe as well, but at the moment it is what the math says.
      - karatinversion 5y ago
nomercy400 5y ago
Where are the normal looking ebikes? Are they not as good as those mentioned? I mean, the best way against theft is to be unnoticed or bing not worth the time. Look cheap, normal and/or old, and have a big external lock, and your ebike tends to be ignored.
- Filligree 5y ago
  Batteries are bulky. You get the choice of putting them inside the chassis, or alternately having a visible, highly obvious battery pack attached somewhere it will be immediately visible. Scaled-up hollow chassises like e.g. R&M's at least look normal from a distance.
anthony_barker 5y ago
There was an MIT Phd student thesis I read 20 years ago that electric bikes (escooters) are the future transport for Taiwan. Roll the clock ahead and ebikes (at least here in Paris) are taking over. Dedicated lanes, government subsidies, government lending system plus private systems (2 or 3) have pushed it into main stream.
- jillesvangurp 5y ago
  Same in Berlin. During the lock-down, the city transformed quite a bit. Several roads first got temporary bike lanes (they sacrificed a lane for this) and then when that turned out to be popular they went ahead and made it permanent. Some uncharacteristically quick and pragmatic decision making actually happened. And of course the entire city is crawling with rental scooters, e-bikes, etc. They are hugely popular. Also a lot of the delivery companies are using electric scooters and ebikes. The volume of all this new traffic is actually forcing the city to adapt. Berlin still has a long way to catch up to the Netherlands (where I'm from), which has awesome bike infrastructure almost everywhere. But, it's a nice start. There are still too many deadly accidents and quite a few of them are due to infrastructure lacking key safety measures. E.g. a common accident cause is trucks running over cyclists when turning right. The way to prevent that is having clearly marked bike lanes and some obstacles that force trucks to not cut corners, slow down, and check their mirrors.
seu 5y ago
Guy: electric bikes take up a lot less space than a car! Guy buys 50 electric bikes.
- LogicX 5y ago
  Yes. And the article explicitly states “over 60” ;)
swah 5y ago
Are these supposed to climb steep hills? I feel like, in my city/neighborhood, a regular motorcycle or scooter would serve me better. But if I lived in Paris or Amsterdam...
- LogicX 5y ago
  Most: no. I have this: https://lunacycle.com/sur-ron-x-bike-black-edition/ https://lunacycle.com/sur-ron-x-bike-black-edition/ The Sur Ron has a 7000W motor. I weigh 260lbs. It climbs hills. At 30-40mph and is awesome!
  - wellthisisgreat 5y ago
    How many miles do you get on one charge? Also how do you store it? seems impossible to bring one inside / in the elevator and let alone a walk-up?
lnxg33k1 5y ago
The fact that there is VanMoof in the list at the second place makes me think for sure that this must be a paid for/sponsored article, I live in Amsterdam, it's all plain, no bumps, but still, I have to go every month to the customer care in order to bring in my VanMoof, it has continuously battery issues, and every now and then it is accompanied by additional issues, like right now for me it's the bell. So I am not sure if the author has ever driven a VanMoof or if he likes going to a place without knowing And I am not an isolated case, there are facebook groups filled by unhappy vanmoof customers, so maybe for bloggers it's the time to grow a conscience and stop advertising shitty products
- dmurray 5y ago
  The author acknowledges exactly these quality issues, and makes this his recommendation if you prioritize the anti-theft features over things like price and reliability. He does make it sound like they are very willing to replace problematic bikes, which might not be the experience of those in your Facebook groups: > these have a higher percentage of bikes with an issue than they’d like. In my experience, that meant sending the bike back and getting a replacement. So I wouldn’t want this to be my only bike
  - lnxg33k1 5y ago
    Oh, missed that, then I guess the author already grew a conscience, and I have to grow a better pair of eyes
- aigo 5y ago
  Anecdata: I've been riding a VanMoof ES2 around London for 2 years with no issues at all
  - lnxg33k1 5y ago
    Well, already the fact that you drove a bike in London for 2 years and survived is outstanding :D But maybe the frequency of use is also important for the context, like here you use the bike 2-3 hours a day, every day, weekend included, want to commute? Bike. want to go to the gym? Bike. want to go out with friends? Bike. want to go to visit Utrecht? Bike. When I lived in London (for few years) bike was not used with this frequency and the infrastructure (up to 2018) didn't seem to allow for that kind of use, so maybe if you take your bike once a week, it can survive that long without issues, is that your case? Or your use is compatible with the one in Ams?
benbojangles 5y ago
Why would you try to limit capability?
bluecalm 5y ago
The biggest problem with e-bikes by far is theft. We need heavy aggressive policing (including bait bikes) so the thieves stop feeling like it's low risk/high reward target. Sadly it seems that current political climate is to go in the opposite direction of not treating theft as a serious crime. I it as the government failing at its most basic purpose. At this point it's such a big problem (it's a huge boon to mass adoption and improving city living, health, infrastructure etc) that I am ready to vote for the first politician that says that theft is not acceptable and we will activily catch people willing to commit it and remove them from society.
londons_explore 5y ago
Ebikes are very different in different countries. Some countries have very limited power or speeds. For example, much if the EU is limited to 250 watt motors. That's only half of what a human can do pedalling hard. Ebikes bought in those countries might severely disappoint.
codingdave 5y ago
Half of these rules are just opinions, and made me go looking for the affiliate links to figure out what they were trying to monetize. The rest of the article completely skipped any legal concerns other than saying they hope to ask a lawyer someday. But the line between an e-bike and a motorcycle is not fuzzy, it is clearly defined in your local regulations. It impacts where you can ride it, what license is required, and other such things. Not that the article is all wrong - nearly half of it is good info, and probably will help people just getting into this arena.
tomcooks 5y ago
For the record: it is cheating, and you're polluting the environment because you're too lazy to cycle. Sincerely, the no lycra no lithium committee
- garbanzoXDP 5y ago
  No lycra, lithium committee checking in. Show me the rulebook. Many ride bikes/ebikes for reasons primarily other than exercise, myself included—"cheating", is a feature, not a bug. One could argue "walking" is even more environmentally friendly than biking as there are minimal manufacturing byproducts (shoes?) and end waste. Does that mean we should all ditch bikes? If an ebike can take a car off the road, I'm all for it!
  - notacoward 5y ago
    > If an ebike can take a car off the road, I'm all for it! Most e-bike usage does effectively mean one less car on the road. The problem I (and many others) have with e-bikes is that they're putting extra strain on the already-insufficient (in the US at least) pedestrian/cyclist infrastructure. Many of those paths could barely support the users they already had safely; the addition of even more users and yet another speed mismatch has been a bit of a disaster. The real answer, of course, is more such infrastructure, but it's a bit of a classic chicken-and-egg problem. Nobody's going to build such infrastructure (which is terribly expensive due to the fact that it would generally require exercise of eminent domain) without demand, but demand is going to be limited until the infrastructure improves. I don't know of a good way out of that bind, unfortunately.
    - Filligree 5y ago
      > Nobody's going to build such infrastructure (which is terribly expensive due to the fact that it would generally require exercise of eminent domain) without demand, but demand is going to be limited until the infrastructure improves. My impression of america is that there's super wide four-lane roads everywhere, including the middle of cities. Use one of the lanes? I'm sure that's not true everywhere, but it seems to be true everywhere there's currently far too many cars, so...
dncornholio 5y ago
Almost everything in NA is build for cars. E-Bikes will do a bit better but it's still a shitty place to ride a bike. I sincerely hope US will fix and modernise their infrastructure, but the reliance on cars is so big, I don't see this happening any time soon.
- milkytron 5y ago
  If ebikes continue to be adopted and used by more people, demand for bike infrastructure will increase, and hopefully cities will start to cater to this form of transportation. Be the change you want to see in the world.
mns06 5y ago
I live in Amsterdam. Since the council banned scooters in the bike lanes, we're now plagued by the silent menace of e-bikes whipping past at 25km an hour. I really dislike them.
teekert 5y ago
Rule 1: Just buy one ... using Buy Now Pay Later services such as Affirm or Klarna. Rule 3: Don’t buy one on Amazon. They don’t have the best bikes. And many of the bikes on there I wouldn’t recommend. See below for my lowest priced recommendation. So... Don't just buy one ;) Also: Facepalm on the "Buy now, Pay MORE Later" options. Just.. Why?
AnthonBerg 5y ago
Rules? Sure. Strong agree with “Just buy one”. I’ve come to different conclusions about the specifics of the bikes themselves. From a different premise and position, surely. I’m a bicyclist and a a motorcyclist, and I tend towards taut, supple, reasonably lightweight, comfortable things. Vehicles that feel good to ride, ride well and predictably and smoothly and go anywhere and do everything. Get out of the way. Disappear. An E-bike should: • Take up to 2.25” wide tires to be able to use Schwalbe Ice Spiker Pro tubeless winter tires. Studded 27.5x2.25” in icy seasons, 29x38mm or so for most everything else. (This might sound strange; idk. I was surprised by the unreasonable effectiveness of this setup.) • Should have carbon fiber rims because the ride is so, so nice. Tubeless. Tubes are a failure point. Tubeless or GTFO. • Should have drop bars with an “open” ergonomic flare. Most natural hand/shoulder position. Allows comfort while minimising drag and wind resistance in a tucked position as desired. • Should be a good bicycle – should ride well overall and be reasonably light. For me this rules out hub motors. (From these reasons I may conclude that E-bikes should be electric gravel bikes.) • Should have some form of controlled suspension. Just a little though. A cheap suspension fork isn’t worth the weight. A Lauf fork with flat glass-fiber springs would be excellent. That leaves the rear wheel non-suspended though. This means that the rider’s spine and the bicycle’s frame are coupled to the road surface, besides the tires’ squish. Good tires do make a big difference but I for one have made up my mind – modern materials allow for super lightweight controlled suspension and I want it and will seek it out. It’s worth it, not just for comfort: Bumps jolt the rider, and the weight of rider and bike are forced to move over bumps; Both cost energy. (Jolts and vibration are not physiologically trivial; Subtly draining.) So: Ideally the frame should have some form of rear suspension. Very few electric versions of nice-to-ride bicycle frames have rear suspension. Some carbon fiber frames have suspension designed into the flex of the frame but I haven’t found anything I like in e-bikes. I think Shimano make an aluminium gravel e-bike with some form of suspension in the rear triangle? There exist suspension seatposts. This is kind of clever. Should be pretty effective. The bike’s frame is unsuspended but the rider is suspended and decoupled and that’s where most of the mass is. And so. I stand to believe that Cairn bikes are the e-bikes to get. (And swap a few component out on.) Compared to bicycles they aren’t cheap, but compared to the full cost of a car they are. Even without externalities. Cairn E-Adventure: https://www.cairncycles.com/collections/ebikes-e-adventure https://www.cairncycles.com/collections/ebikes-e-adventure Cairn BRAVe: https://www.cairncycles.com/collections/e-bike-brave https://www.cairncycles.com/collections/e-bike-brave
oceanplexian 5y ago
Buy a Sur Ron and for slightly more money you have a 50MPH (80km/hr) machine that can tackle harsh off road and on road terrain, and has a large aftermarket parts community. Put the pedal kit on it and you can cruise around town like a bicycle if that’s your sort of thing.
- gnarcoregrizz 5y ago
  It felt wrong trying to pass mine off as an ebike even with a pedal kit, though everyone gets away with it here. Fortunately my moped plates just arrived which allows me to ride it in the bike lanes for streets where traffic is >30mph. Gotta say, the sur ron is the most fun thing I’ve ever bought. I use mine exclusively for off-roading and exploration. Im not so patiently awaiting my 3.5 kwh battery.
rkangel 5y ago
For all the useful information in this article I find it devalued by the first piece of advice being "absolutely just spend $2000 dollars without worrying too much and if you can't afford it just go into debt". I'm sure that getting past decision paralysis and buying something is a decision that most people won't regret, and ebike adoption is great for everyone, but the fact that this is a person with 30? 50? ebikes makes me sceptical that they have the normal buying influences the rest of us do.
bambax 5y ago
An option he doesn't seem to mention is to build your own ebike from an existing bike. Just buy a kit on AliExpress (motor & battery) and you're good to go. Costs are between €500-750 shipped, and many sellers have warehouses in Europe and the US so delivery is fast for the most common items. If you already have a bike that fits you, transforming it is a budget friendly solution. And if not, buying an ordinary used MTB will only add around 100-150 to the total cost of the project. It's not difficult to do, and it's a lot of fun.
- tonyedgecombe 5y ago
  I'm not sure a $150 MTB is going to have the brakes suitable for use with an e-bike. Then you have all the other stresses and strains beyond what would normally be expected.
jaclaz 5y ago
As a side note, and essentially reserved to EU/Italian nostalgics, there is now a small firm retrofitting the Piaggio Ciao as an e-bike: https://www.ambraitalia.it/cosa-facciamo https://www.ambraitalia.it/cosa-facciamo For those too young to remember the times, in the '70's the Ciao had become a synonym of "moped" as much as Vespa was a synonym of "scooter" and was ubiquitous. The finally assembled thing will probably be way too heavy if seen as a bike, but on the other hand the original Ciao was designed for 40 km/h speed, so at 25 km/h body, wheels and brakes should be "safer".
ubermonkey 5y ago
I'm a big road cyclist, so I really want one, because they're COOL, but I have ZERO use case for one. 1. My wife and I both work at home. No commute. 2. Because COVID, we have leaned towards either delivery groceries, or larger shopping trips done less frequently to avoid unnecessary exposure. A major shop-up is too much for a bike. 3. Our climate here is really really unpleasant for about half the year, so the quickie trips we might opt for a bike (e- or otherwise) become car trips by default if you don't want to arrive sweaty and disheveled.
Wubdidu 5y ago
We live in a big city in Germany with two kids and earlier this year bought the Tern GSD mentioned in the article with two children seats. We don't own a car. This thing gets so much mileage it was definitely worth the money. Before, we frequently rented a car from a car sharing service when we had really bad weather or needed to drive a longer distance - we now pretty much NEVER rent a car anymore. The bike is absolutely lovely, feels very safe and is a joy to ride. It was a painfully expensive purchase, but very worth it. When the kids get bigger we can exchange one of the seats with something comparable to a motorcycle back seat - a cushion and handlebars below the saddle - for the bigger kid. When they both grow out of it we can replace both seats with a chest or rack and have a very capable cargo bike. The whole bike is designed to not be much longer than a regular bike, so you can do pretty much everything you would usually be able to do, like putting it in a bike rack in the local trains and such. It also is built to be parked vertically due to support bars at the back tire (which, to be fair, doesn't work if you have two children seats, but still… nice feature). I love it.
- gcrout 5y ago
  Seconded. The Tern HSD / GSD is a game changer
- larrymyers 5y ago
  We love our 2 year old Tern GSD. It is such an amazing cargo bike. Carries both our kids, then sub out the seats for a crate and it’ll do a Costco trip with ease. I see a ton of them in Chicago, and everybody is usually smiling as they pedal.
artisanspam 5y ago
This[1] is the new bill in US congress that he mentioned about subsidies. The "E-BIKE" act. It's a tax credit of 30% of the cost of a new ebike. The credit can't exceed $1,500. This changes slightly if you file jointly, but you can just read the bill -- it's short. The author makes it seem like this bill a part of Build Back Better which just passed the House and is in the Senate now. But that's not what the bill timeline says. Personally, I'm waiting for this before I commit to a RadRunner Plus. [1] - https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/1019/text https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/1019...
- GordonS 5y ago
  I always wonder about the practically of these subsidies - would it still be considered "successful" if manufactures artificially inflated prices by 30% after the subsidies went live? I would have assumed that the main goal was to encourage consumers to buy, rather than to inflate manufacture profits, though the latter wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing (since it's rewarding companies for taking a risk and bringing new, more eco-friendly products to market).
  - Scoundreller 5y ago
    Governments should also get free equity in the companies in these deals. Although you’ll probably see shell companies and locking out of new entrants if you do that, it still seems better for a lot of situations.
  - qnsi 5y ago
    The manufacturers would have to collude to all rise prices. One rougue manufacturer can keep normal prices and grab the whole ebike market
deanc 5y ago
I own a Specialized Vado 4.0 SL EQ. I love it but won’t let it out my sight. I’ve yet to ride in bad weather as this thing has to come up six floors in an elevator and on the wall in our spare bedroom. You can imagine the hassle and mess that would make. I agree the killer features will be along the lines of anti theft but criminals are smart and will always find ways to steal. I think the killer feature for ebikes is infrastructure. Secure infrastructure and parking as well as cleaning facilities for those coming back into apartment complexes. A small hose and leaf blower would go a long way.
rob74 5y ago
Can anyone explain what the deal is with the Segway c80 and its "non-functional pedals"? I found a review here (https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/segway-emoped-c80-hands-on-with-segways-first-smart-e-bike/ https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/segway-emoped-c80-hands-o...), but even its author wasn't sure why this, er, vehicle, has pedals that you can't actually pedal without falling over. So I guess the pedals are there so it can be classified as an ebike and not as an e-scooter for tax/legal/whatever reasons?! In Germany IIRC the rules for an ebike which you can use without a license plate (same as a "classic" bicycle) is speed limited to < 25 km/h and that you actually have to pedal (however little) to get it to move, but I guess the regulations are different in other countries...
mettamage 5y ago
I thought about buying an ebike. I especially thought that going further than normal is indeed a great feature. Though, I've noticed just any decent second hand Dutch bike with a few gears will provide some of that as well since it allows you to give the maximum output that you desire. What I'm scared off with ebikes is that I'll be going too fast. On normal bikes I already go too fast. I recently got in an accident by getting stuck in the tram rails for the first time in my life and that went fine because I was cycling about 20km/h, but even the notch up to 25km/h or higher, I wonder what would've happened. I used to own a scooter that went 45km/h and had one very nasty fall from that once. With both these accidents I was in retrospect quite lucky in an unlucky situation. I guess it doesn't help that The Netherlands doesn't care about cycling helmets and that I also would never want to wear one.
peatmoss 5y ago
Ebikes are in a weird territory between bicycles and motorcycles. I occasionally see ebikes clipping along at a rate that would make me a lot happier with a full face helmet and some degree of abrasion resistance and soft armor. I guess this is technically true of bombing down hill on a conventionally powered bicycle as well (which I’ve done many times in shorts and with naught but an aerodynamic hunk of styrofoam strapped to my head). Still, I see ebikes pushing skin-removal speeds pretty routinely. From my adventures in motorcycling, I know that ABS yields somewhere between 30-40% reduction in crashes. I wonder if any of the higher-wattage ebikes are starting to explore those kinds of things? Similarly, I just paid an eye-wateringly high cost for new motorcycle tires, that are marvels of engineering in their own right. I wonder if high-powered ebikes are starting to use high-tech rubber for safety.
UI_at_80x24 5y ago
I ride a recumbent similar to this one: https://files.bikeindex.org/uploads/Pu/103421/Longbike_Slipstream_SN1293-_20170808_03.JPG https://files.bikeindex.org/uploads/Pu/103421/Longbike_Slips... I've looked into getting a mid-drive motor & batteries several years ago, but the price was close to $5,000! Have the prices substantially decreased? Is Baofeng still the goto solution for mid-drive motors? In addition, the laws restricting the speed are ridiculous. My top-speed on that bike is 62km/h, and my `cruising speed` is around 40km/h. So laws that limit the speed without taking into account the effort that I can add make no sense. Have the law be "upto 20km/h 'assisted boost'" or something. Where I live the max size of motor we can use is 500w. My bike weighs 50lbs all on it's own. A 500w motor powering a 10lbs bike is a far different animal then one on a 50lbs bike.
- jascii 5y ago
  I have a Tour Easy with a Tongshen TZSD2 mid drive with the open source firmware. Total cost of the conversion was about $1200 USD. Even when the electric assist was still limited to about 20mph, my commuting time went down my about 30% due to the higher speed on hill climbs. And I arrived at work without sweating to much! Delimiting it has allowed me to take a shorter route where I need to merge into 45mph traffic for a short stretch.
hsnewman 5y ago
Thank you for posting this, I'm very interested in an ebike but all the options are making the decision hard. This article is very helpful.
DonHopkins 5y ago
I got a Koga e-Nova (a high quality Dutch brand) with an Enviolo stepless automatic transmission and a Gates CDX belt drive, and it's buttery smooth and silent, fully sealed, low maintenance, and super easy stopping and starting at stoplights and drawbridges, and getting back up to speed really fast. It was not cheap, but I love it, it was well worth it, and it's an effortless delight to ride. https://www.koga.com/nl/elektrische-fietsen/e-nova-evo-pt-automatic?frame=L https://www.koga.com/nl/elektrische-fietsen/e-nova-evo-pt-au... The Enviolo hub is a continuously variable planetary transmission, with an automatic shifting option that lets you dial in your desired cadence, and it automatically and smoothly shifts up and down as required, while you can even pedal and apply power while it's shifting. No gears or sprockets or chains or clicks or clacks or slips or derailments or constant lubrication and cleaning, just planetary balls sealed in transmission fluid. https://enviolo.com/products/ https://enviolo.com/products/ >Enviolo Stepless Shifting: A smart range of hubs for different riders needs. >The continuously variable planetary (CVP) technology forms the foundation of all enviolo stepless shifting products. >The continuously and stepless variable planetary transmission enables cyclists to effortlessly change from one gear ratio to the next. Shifting while pedaling under high capacity has never been easier with enviolo. Is enviolo the best internally geared hub for eBikes? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vob5Rb4IKsw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vob5Rb4IKsw >If somebody asked me what my favorite drive train for electric bikes was, it would probably be the Enviolo hub. They have been around for a while but have been growing rapidly in popularity. In this video we’ll go over what the Enviolo hub is and who it is best for. Harley Davidson just released the Serial 1 eBike with the Enviolo Automatiq CVT: https://electricbikeaction.com/first-ride-serial-1-e-bikes-from-harley-davidson/ https://electricbikeaction.com/first-ride-serial-1-e-bikes-f... FIRST RIDE: Serial 1 Harley-Davidson e-bikes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHpsjDvZ-n4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHpsjDvZ-n4 >We had the chance to go for a ride with Serial 1 Brand Director Aaron Frank. The new Mosh/CTY and Rush/CTY bikes are well-priced, quiet, and really smooth to ride. The Rush bikes have the Enviolo Automatiq CVT, and all bikes have Brose mid-drive motors.
- RobinL 5y ago
  Does anyone know why quality e-bikes are so hugely expensive? I'd like one, but I wouldn't be comfortable leaving it anywhere due to risk of theft. A good quality ordinary bicycle is around £1,000. Spend much more and maybe it's lighter, or you get a fancy style, but it won't be dramatically more reliable. The batteries on e-bikes are surprisingly small relative to an electric car. e.g. a Kia e-Nero is 64 kWh and about £35k list price. Even the largest battery on the linked bike is 625Wh (0.625 kWh) i.e. one hundredth of the capacity of the car. So even if the cost of the Kia was all battery, the equivalent cost for the bike battery would be just £350. Are the electric motor and the other electrical components really that expensive? What am I missing?
peripitea 5y ago
He says not to buy one on Amazon, but I got mine on Amazon for $500 and it works great. Meanwhile the cheapest bike on his list is $1k.
- Zarel 5y ago
  Yeah, this would be much more persuasive if he gave more reasons about why not to buy from Amazon. (Mine shipped with a minor issue, but the seller agreed to reimburse me for the price my local repair shop charged to fix it.)

199 points by jseliger 5y ago

You should get an ebike that has regenerative breaking, not because it's safer/better but because it does not wear anything (except the tyres, hard to avoid that) down when breaking since it's magnetic.

Reason077 5y ago
Not really. Regenerative braking is quite unusual in e-bikes as it requires a “direct drive” motor, and that comes with some of its own disadvantages. Heavier, don’t accelerate as fast, can’t “freewheel” like a traditional bicycle, etc. Now days, most riders (and manufacturers!) seem to prefer geared hub and mid-drive motors.
- bullen 5y ago
  True but it's also simpler and if you are building something to replace your car (replacing your bike is not interesting since you should use that instead) those are not disadvantages, see: http://elhjul.se http://elhjul.se

0xcoffee 5y ago

Personally I love the look of the Rad Runner. Only reason I don't buy one is because cycling as my commute is a great fitness for me, and going electric I would lose that. However I really feel that for 1000+ euros, a chain guard and fenders should really be included by default.

Filligree 5y ago
> Only reason I don't buy one is because cycling as my commute is a great fitness for me, and going electric I would lose that. People vary, of course, but my own experience is I ended up getting a lot more exercise after going electric. I go on longer trips, and since I'm not scared of ending up 'stranded' from being exhausted somewhere far from home, I do it more often and put more power into the pedals. Of course that means going faster, but that just means I get to see more of the terrain.

lostgame 5y ago

I would like a similar list for e-scooters. Does anyone here happen have recommendations for solid and - importantly - affordable e-scooters? I’m in the market, but clueless as to what actual quality models are.

burgerzzz 5y ago
I’ve really enjoyed my Super 73. Good range, speed and really fun to ride. Recently I turned it on and the battery started smoking and from all appearances was about to explode. Thankfully it didn’t. And although it took awhile to get the line of communications straight, they are replacing the entire bike and shipping should only take a week or so.
- blablabla123 5y ago
  I really wonder about the whole battery thing and if it's somehow deterministic. Has there been any mechanical shock, deep discharge or unusual temperature exposure? FWIW, there are special battery bags.
lmm 5y ago
What do you mean by "scooter"? One of the ones in the article is the Segway c80, is that what you're after?
Toutouxc 5y ago
Scooter as in kick-scooter, or a small motorcycle?
- timbit42 5y ago
  I'd like to find an electric version of a Vespa scooter that can do 50 km/h. Most ebikes max out at 25 or 35 km/h so the driver doesn't need a license to drive it.
  - grzm 5y ago
    I'd love to have an electric version of the Honda Super Cub. Good carrying capacity for around-about, not as large as a full-sized motorcycle. Dunno if it's available in the US yet.

emodendroket 5y ago

> They will be a big driver of shifting more car trips to other modes. And shifting more families to owning fewer, or even no cars. When we need fewer cars, that means we can build less parking, which lowers prices at grocery stores, restaurants, and other places. It lets us build things closer together, allowing us to build what consumers want — walkable neighborhoods like Culdesac Tempe. Simply put, the biggest impediment to me using a bicycle now is that I don't really feel safe taking a bicycle to most places I want to go (or at least I'd have to carefully plan my route in a way that I don't to drive). E-bikes could help me cover a bigger range but I don't think they're going to solve that problem.

lmm 5y ago
> E-bikes could help me cover a bigger range but I don't think they're going to solve that problem. Popularity is the solution to that though, and e-bikes help with that. As more people shift from cars to bikes we can and should narrow roads and lower speed limits, which will in turn help more people shift from cars to bikes, and so on.
- emodendroket 5y ago
  They could just end up in a similar place to bikes now, enjoyed primarily for recreation rather than as a practical means of transportation.
  - lmm 5y ago
    (FWIW that's not at all true where I live: bikes here are practical transport first, recreation is the exception rather than the rule). The article addresses that: ebikes don't have much advantage over a regular bike for recreation, they're popular because of their practicality advantages.
    - emodendroket 5y ago
      I wouldn’t say that. They’re good if you want to bike with someone more experienced, or over terrain tougher than you’re used to.

johnyzee 5y ago

We have had two e-bikes in three years, both were stolen within six months. We even take the battery when leaving the bike (in both cases the theft happened one of the few times we didn't). Obviously the bikes were locked. This happens a lot with expensive regular bikes, too. I have had several bikes stolen while securely locked to an immovable object, like a lamp post. The article does make a brief callout to 'anti-theft', and yeah, can confirm that this is important, but not sure what the best approach is. Maybe some huge honking alarm, like for cars. Expensive cargo bikes even have GPS tracking on some of them now. Simply locking the bike is unfortunately not enough.

adrianN 5y ago
Bike thieves are often specialized an a particular kind of lock, so that it helps if you have two locks, e.g. a chain and a U-lock, from different makers. You can also buy GPS trackers for bikes that don't have them. I don't know any good solutions for preventing theft of parts.
- tonyedgecombe 5y ago
  I imagine a ring lock[1] alongside a traditional U-lock might be good as it would be quite difficult to remove without causing damage. [1] https://www.axasecurity.com/bike-security/en-gb/products/Locks/8/586400560X05SC/axa-imenso-large https://www.axasecurity.com/bike-security/en-gb/products/Loc...
  - olau 5y ago
    I think the pro thieves just grab the bike and put it in a van. They look relatively easy to remove with a few tools in workshop. Perhaps you can simply lock pick them, with some practice. But they do protect against casual thieves, the ones who just grab a bike for fun, or they are drunk and need to get home, or something like that. I've had a ring lock on my bike for decades. But then the last couple of decades the bike hasn't been in a state where the pro thieves could get any money from it. :) And actually, I think this is the best protection: Work on reducing production cost of bikes. Most of them seem ridiculously expensive for the material that goes into them.

hr2016 5y ago

I've been using an E-bike for the last year and a half in my small town. It basically removes all the tediousness of bad weather from biking and ascending. I don't need to cover great distances everyday for work, groceries or kindergarten runs but it's been breeze on the bike. Yesterday I rode through 5-10 cm of fresh snow, with a child in a bike trailer. I got a model with large tires and a bit of a front suspension, so it's an all-round bike. I can easily explore trails and nature, most of the time with a child mounted on the bike, while it's still very nice to ride around town. High quality studded tires make it safer and easier to bike than walk during icy conditions. Give it a shot, it's really nice.

patrickk 5y ago
A bike trailer paired with an ebike opens up all kinds of possibilities, like bringing home groceries, carrying your pet dog (!!)[1], going picnicking, etc. with or without a child in the trailer. It can eliminate the need for a car for these short trips as you mention. [1] https://ampedcycling.com/how-to-use-a-dog-bike-trailer-with-your-e-bike/ https://ampedcycling.com/how-to-use-a-dog-bike-trailer-with-...

rolleiflex 5y ago

This is cool, but I’d love to see a comparison of ebikes against good old dinosaur-juice (or even electric) motorcycles. Much more difficult to steal, and for gasoline motorcycles, much better mileage per charge, charging to 100% takes 30 seconds, can go as fast as you have the guts for, much more stable at speed, almost as easy parking, can go on highways. Almost as cheap fuel as electricity with the smaller end of motorcycles doing 90+mpg. In California, you can also lane split, which makes motorcycles effectively transparent to traffic. On the minus side, you do need a license and insurance for it, and the bar for hand-eye coordination is higher — there are more people on the planet that should not touch a motorcycle than those that shouldn’t do bikes.

gregors 5y ago
motorcycle vs ebike - from a safety standpoint - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM8Xli2KTzI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM8Xli2KTzI
rich_sasha 5y ago
As a keen cyclist who almost got a motorbike license, one massive difference is that a bike weight 10kg (ebike lets say 20) whereas a motorbike upwards of 100, or thereabouts. I think in traffic you are fairly vulnerable to both, but on a bike, at least if you fall, you don’t have the insult of your own vehicle crushing you as well as whatever obstacle / other vehicle you hit.
- rolleiflex 5y ago
  Yeah, that makes sense. I’m on both sides on this one, I have two motorcycles, one electric scooter and one electric skateboard. Motorcycles are by far the heaviest thing. On the other hand, many motorcycles come with sacrifical rubber ‘sliders’ where if a motorcycle is dropped to the ground, the only thing that touches the ground is still the wheels and the rubber sliders on the dropped side. The slider itself is a block of rubber and it’s $10 to replace when ground down sufficiently to a nub. I’ve found weight to be a less of a problem than I expected in practice.
- storyinmemo 5y ago

siva7 5y ago

You have to get a theft insurance for your ebike. A lock is no replacement for that. That’s the most important rule for owning an ebike.

jacquesm 5y ago
Another good way of dealing with this is to ensure that you don't leave the bike on the street unattended, figure out where the guarded bike parking spots are in your town, and if you can't get a spot like that maybe only take your e-bike between locations where you are in control of the space (home, work, for instance). And keep a cheap runabout for short trips to places where your bike will be unattended on the street. The Dutch form for reporting a bike theft to the police starts with the sentence 'where did you steal the bike' ;)
- microtonal 5y ago
  Another good way of dealing with this is to ensure that you don't leave the bike on the street unattended, figure out where the guarded bike parking spots are in your town, and if you can't get a spot like that maybe only take your e-bike between locations where you are in control of the space (home, work, for instance). Well, my wife's eBike was stolen after only a few months from the parking garage of our apartment complex, which is locked and has cameras (and obviously, the bike was locked). Thieves just wait outside with a van, drive in when some resident drives in, block the view of the camera with their van. Throw in a few eBikes and drive away. Preventing theft is all about making it harder to steal your bike than everyone else's. - Get bike insurance with a tracker. A visible tracker will make your bike less attractive to steal. Even when they steal it, they often put bikes with a tracker in a cool-off location near the place of the theft to check that no-one is using the tracker. So, very often, you'll have the bike back pretty quickly, because the insurance company finds it at the cool-off spot. If all those measures fail, the insurance company will cover the cost of a new bike (though bikes are sometimes hard to get during the pandemic). - Always use two locks. Make sure that both the front and rear wheel are locked (to avoid wheel theft) and ensure that at least for at least one of the wheels is attached to the frame with a lock. - Always attach your bike frame to a sturdy, unmovable object with a heavy duty chain lock. Again, in a lot of cases, the thieves will just throw your bike in a van and remove the locks elsewhere. If your bike is attached to e.g. a lamppost and it takes them some time to cut the lock, getting caught is a risk that they may want to avoid. Especially when there are other bikes to be stolen more easily in the vicinity.

jacquesm 5y ago

Most of these are high maintenance or fashion items. The Urban Arrow is ok, as is the van Moof, but a couple of simple and practical e-bikes would have been good to add as well as to explain in more detail the difference between the three different drive train options that you have at the moment (vario drive, derailleur and in-hub shifting). The Koga e-nova line is pretty good, and you should definitely shop around to see if you can find the bike you are looking for on the second hand market, e-bikes are in many cases ridiculously overpriced and getting a second hand one is fine, people will buy them and try them, don't like them for whatever reason and then sell them again usually at a substantial hit off the original list price. Make sure the warranty is transferable.

rich_sasha 5y ago
I have an electric Bakfiets, the granddaddy of cargo bikes, and so far is has been zero maintenance. It’s built for it too; steel frame, drum brakes, covered chain, thick anti-puncture tires etc. Which incidentally does mean that the rare maintenance will be a bigger job, but it can be sorted at the once-a-year service.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  Watch the main pivotal bearing on those, they need frequent inspection, cleaning and greasing up. Once they go it can really wreck your day and they are hard to replace, maintenance is key there. The easiest way to work on those I've found is to put the bike on blocks on it's side while supporting the rear frame separately. If you flip it completely it is harder to work on because the bearing will be under pressure again so it gets harder to check for slop and to tighten it up.
  - fulafel 5y ago
    Do you mean hard to replace DiY or hard to get done in a shop?

DeathArrow 5y ago

I live in a climate where summers are very hot and winters are really cold. There are also rainy days. That doesn't live a lot of time when I can use a bike, maybe half an year. Also, the City I live in has lots of traffic and I don't feel safe riding a bike. Also, riding a bike isn't comfortable on long distances, you can't go to shopping, you can't get your family on a bike and get somewhere. I don't see bikes replacing cars, mainly augmenting them. If I'd have to chose, I would feel safer on a motorbike or scooter than on a bike.

moonchrome 5y ago
>If I'd have to chose, I would feel safer on a motorbike or scooter than on a bike. Why ? I drive a motorcycle and just on the weight difference is significantly more risky - if you tip over an ebike it's a minor inconvenience, if you tip over a 200kg bike you could injure yourself just trying to catch it. I don't think the two compare other than they can both be used for short commutes, but you're likely not getting a motorcycle just for that, driving and owning a motorcycle is way more involved. Scooters are a more realistic comparison but ebikes theoretically let you use paths you shouldn't use with scooters.
- somerandomqaguy 5y ago
  Not the person you're asking, but I kinda of agree with OP. The weight of a motorcycle's initially intimidating, but to me it feels much more stable and planted at most speeds and maneuvers. I have no real reason to believe it's objectively true, but it feels that way. And in some cases the weight can be an advantage. It's it more difficult to steal a 200kg motorcycle then it is to steal a 10 kg bicycle once you're at that destination. >I don't think the two compare other than they can both be used for short commutes, but you're likely not getting a motorcycle just for that, driving and owning a motorcycle is way more involved. Scooters are a more realistic comparison but ebikes theoretically let you use paths you shouldn't use with scooters. I kinda look at it the other way. A motorcycle gains access to major highways and freeways cyclists and pedestrians are prohibited from traversing on due being unable to cruise at 100+ kph while retaining a good chunk of the small size advantages that a bicycle has.
- 5y ago

rich_sasha 5y ago

One thing where infrastructure and laws need to catch up is that while ebikes enjoy similar privileges to bikes (access to bike paths, use of mixed pedestrian/cyclist paths etc), many are basically electric scooters, way more powerful and heavy than any bike. In my town, you see a lot of full-fledged electric scooters with vestigial pedals for pretending it’s a bike (and it seems a togglable speed limiter). They then terrorise the kids and other less confident cyclists, or indeed pedestrians when they fancy like a ride on the pavement. That’s not great either. The premise of an ebike is something with similar power output to a push bike, just lower user power use. These e-not-really-bikes are dangerous to cyclists.

bjackman 5y ago
Here in Zürich, and I think many parts of Europe, the rule is simple: to be regulated like normal bikes the motor can't push you past 25km/h. With this limit I have not personally had any issues with E-Bikes/scooters being a hazard. On the other side of the coin, 25km/h is a bit slower than I ride my pushbike, but plenty fast enough to make E-Bikes/scooters an attractive solution. I'm pretty happy with this balance - my only gripe with the shared scooters is people park them inconsiderately.
- rich_sasha 5y ago
  I think it’s a good law, and it’s the same in the UK, just not enforced at all. It spills over to other things electric, you have electric scooters zooming on pavements around school kids and unexpecting pedestrians, it’s terrible I think but totally ignored. It feels like electric mobility is prioritised over pedestrian safety. Maybe because the police think these scooters displace cars (so net safety win) but I still don’t like it.
  - dpatterbee 5y ago
    The UK (or at least my city) has a problem where a lot of places have just enough bike infrastructure to be dangerous. People can get some % of the way from A to B without trouble, but then resort to the pavement when they get to a busy road without proper infrastructure. Also doesn't help that many councils seem to think that shared bus/bicycle lanes are bicycle infrastructure.

khebbie 5y ago

I don’t see any, recumbent, trikes or velomobiles. Specifically the latter two are probably our best bets of replacing the car.

timbit42 5y ago
I like the Organic Transit ELF and Better Bikes PEBL. Both are enclosed recumbent trikes with a rear seat for an adult or two children and a trunk.

pizza234 5y ago

> I grab one of my mid-drives. But usually I grab one of my hub-drives. Why? A THROTTLE! Throttles are magic and give you the option of pedaling as little as zero. Not sure about there, but pedaling as little as zero is illegal in several countries. Besides, I own a mid-drive cargo bike, and had several hub-drives, and mid-drives are absolutely better: > Particularly for cargo bikes, a throttle is a major feature. You’ll appreciate it when you’re taking off from a standing stop with groceries or children on the back. with a mid-drive, taking off from a standing stop is smooth. if not putting energy at all is a concern, one can either make sure that reaches stopping points in a low gear, or just set the engine assist to the max. If one is so concerned about not putting effort, an e-scooter is a more fitting choice.

busymom0 5y ago
How does law enforcement check if you are pedalling or not?
- pletnes 5y ago
  On my bikes (we have 2), the electronics controlling the motor only allows the motor to run when pedaling with some force. I guess law enforcement can see if you’re pedaling, if they have one eye open. If accidents happen, they can test equipment to ser if it’s illegaly imported / not approved / tampered with / etc. As usual, «don’t get caught» works up until a point. If you want to go fast, just get a motorbike. Why bother tampering with a pedelec?
  - glogla 5y ago
    > If you want to go fast, just get a motorbike. Why bother tampering with a pedelec? Because in a lot of places you're vastly less likely to be killed by a car on a cycle path on bike than on a road on motorbike. I mean I'm not sure it's good, since this will just gradually make the cycle paths less safe as well, but at the moment it is what the math says.
    - karatinversion 5y ago

nomercy400 5y ago

Where are the normal looking ebikes? Are they not as good as those mentioned? I mean, the best way against theft is to be unnoticed or bing not worth the time. Look cheap, normal and/or old, and have a big external lock, and your ebike tends to be ignored.

Filligree 5y ago
Batteries are bulky. You get the choice of putting them inside the chassis, or alternately having a visible, highly obvious battery pack attached somewhere it will be immediately visible. Scaled-up hollow chassises like e.g. R&M's at least look normal from a distance.

anthony_barker 5y ago

There was an MIT Phd student thesis I read 20 years ago that electric bikes (escooters) are the future transport for Taiwan. Roll the clock ahead and ebikes (at least here in Paris) are taking over. Dedicated lanes, government subsidies, government lending system plus private systems (2 or 3) have pushed it into main stream.

jillesvangurp 5y ago
Same in Berlin. During the lock-down, the city transformed quite a bit. Several roads first got temporary bike lanes (they sacrificed a lane for this) and then when that turned out to be popular they went ahead and made it permanent. Some uncharacteristically quick and pragmatic decision making actually happened. And of course the entire city is crawling with rental scooters, e-bikes, etc. They are hugely popular. Also a lot of the delivery companies are using electric scooters and ebikes. The volume of all this new traffic is actually forcing the city to adapt. Berlin still has a long way to catch up to the Netherlands (where I'm from), which has awesome bike infrastructure almost everywhere. But, it's a nice start. There are still too many deadly accidents and quite a few of them are due to infrastructure lacking key safety measures. E.g. a common accident cause is trucks running over cyclists when turning right. The way to prevent that is having clearly marked bike lanes and some obstacles that force trucks to not cut corners, slow down, and check their mirrors.

seu 5y ago

Guy: electric bikes take up a lot less space than a car! Guy buys 50 electric bikes.

LogicX 5y ago
Yes. And the article explicitly states “over 60” ;)

swah 5y ago

Are these supposed to climb steep hills? I feel like, in my city/neighborhood, a regular motorcycle or scooter would serve me better. But if I lived in Paris or Amsterdam...

LogicX 5y ago
Most: no. I have this: https://lunacycle.com/sur-ron-x-bike-black-edition/ https://lunacycle.com/sur-ron-x-bike-black-edition/ The Sur Ron has a 7000W motor. I weigh 260lbs. It climbs hills. At 30-40mph and is awesome!
- wellthisisgreat 5y ago
  How many miles do you get on one charge? Also how do you store it? seems impossible to bring one inside / in the elevator and let alone a walk-up?

lnxg33k1 5y ago

The fact that there is VanMoof in the list at the second place makes me think for sure that this must be a paid for/sponsored article, I live in Amsterdam, it's all plain, no bumps, but still, I have to go every month to the customer care in order to bring in my VanMoof, it has continuously battery issues, and every now and then it is accompanied by additional issues, like right now for me it's the bell. So I am not sure if the author has ever driven a VanMoof or if he likes going to a place without knowing And I am not an isolated case, there are facebook groups filled by unhappy vanmoof customers, so maybe for bloggers it's the time to grow a conscience and stop advertising shitty products

dmurray 5y ago
The author acknowledges exactly these quality issues, and makes this his recommendation if you prioritize the anti-theft features over things like price and reliability. He does make it sound like they are very willing to replace problematic bikes, which might not be the experience of those in your Facebook groups: > these have a higher percentage of bikes with an issue than they’d like. In my experience, that meant sending the bike back and getting a replacement. So I wouldn’t want this to be my only bike
- lnxg33k1 5y ago
  Oh, missed that, then I guess the author already grew a conscience, and I have to grow a better pair of eyes
aigo 5y ago
Anecdata: I've been riding a VanMoof ES2 around London for 2 years with no issues at all
- lnxg33k1 5y ago
  Well, already the fact that you drove a bike in London for 2 years and survived is outstanding :D But maybe the frequency of use is also important for the context, like here you use the bike 2-3 hours a day, every day, weekend included, want to commute? Bike. want to go to the gym? Bike. want to go out with friends? Bike. want to go to visit Utrecht? Bike. When I lived in London (for few years) bike was not used with this frequency and the infrastructure (up to 2018) didn't seem to allow for that kind of use, so maybe if you take your bike once a week, it can survive that long without issues, is that your case? Or your use is compatible with the one in Ams?

benbojangles 5y ago

Why would you try to limit capability?

bluecalm 5y ago

The biggest problem with e-bikes by far is theft. We need heavy aggressive policing (including bait bikes) so the thieves stop feeling like it's low risk/high reward target. Sadly it seems that current political climate is to go in the opposite direction of not treating theft as a serious crime. I it as the government failing at its most basic purpose. At this point it's such a big problem (it's a huge boon to mass adoption and improving city living, health, infrastructure etc) that I am ready to vote for the first politician that says that theft is not acceptable and we will activily catch people willing to commit it and remove them from society.

londons_explore 5y ago

Ebikes are very different in different countries. Some countries have very limited power or speeds. For example, much if the EU is limited to 250 watt motors. That's only half of what a human can do pedalling hard. Ebikes bought in those countries might severely disappoint.

codingdave 5y ago

Half of these rules are just opinions, and made me go looking for the affiliate links to figure out what they were trying to monetize. The rest of the article completely skipped any legal concerns other than saying they hope to ask a lawyer someday. But the line between an e-bike and a motorcycle is not fuzzy, it is clearly defined in your local regulations. It impacts where you can ride it, what license is required, and other such things. Not that the article is all wrong - nearly half of it is good info, and probably will help people just getting into this arena.

tomcooks 5y ago

For the record: it is cheating, and you're polluting the environment because you're too lazy to cycle. Sincerely, the no lycra no lithium committee

garbanzoXDP 5y ago
No lycra, lithium committee checking in. Show me the rulebook. Many ride bikes/ebikes for reasons primarily other than exercise, myself included—"cheating", is a feature, not a bug. One could argue "walking" is even more environmentally friendly than biking as there are minimal manufacturing byproducts (shoes?) and end waste. Does that mean we should all ditch bikes? If an ebike can take a car off the road, I'm all for it!
- notacoward 5y ago
  > If an ebike can take a car off the road, I'm all for it! Most e-bike usage does effectively mean one less car on the road. The problem I (and many others) have with e-bikes is that they're putting extra strain on the already-insufficient (in the US at least) pedestrian/cyclist infrastructure. Many of those paths could barely support the users they already had safely; the addition of even more users and yet another speed mismatch has been a bit of a disaster. The real answer, of course, is more such infrastructure, but it's a bit of a classic chicken-and-egg problem. Nobody's going to build such infrastructure (which is terribly expensive due to the fact that it would generally require exercise of eminent domain) without demand, but demand is going to be limited until the infrastructure improves. I don't know of a good way out of that bind, unfortunately.
  - Filligree 5y ago
    > Nobody's going to build such infrastructure (which is terribly expensive due to the fact that it would generally require exercise of eminent domain) without demand, but demand is going to be limited until the infrastructure improves. My impression of america is that there's super wide four-lane roads everywhere, including the middle of cities. Use one of the lanes? I'm sure that's not true everywhere, but it seems to be true everywhere there's currently far too many cars, so...

dncornholio 5y ago

Almost everything in NA is build for cars. E-Bikes will do a bit better but it's still a shitty place to ride a bike. I sincerely hope US will fix and modernise their infrastructure, but the reliance on cars is so big, I don't see this happening any time soon.

milkytron 5y ago
If ebikes continue to be adopted and used by more people, demand for bike infrastructure will increase, and hopefully cities will start to cater to this form of transportation. Be the change you want to see in the world.

mns06 5y ago

I live in Amsterdam. Since the council banned scooters in the bike lanes, we're now plagued by the silent menace of e-bikes whipping past at 25km an hour. I really dislike them.

teekert 5y ago

Rule 1: Just buy one ... using Buy Now Pay Later services such as Affirm or Klarna. Rule 3: Don’t buy one on Amazon. They don’t have the best bikes. And many of the bikes on there I wouldn’t recommend. See below for my lowest priced recommendation. So... Don't just buy one ;) Also: Facepalm on the "Buy now, Pay MORE Later" options. Just.. Why?

AnthonBerg 5y ago

Rules? Sure. Strong agree with “Just buy one”. I’ve come to different conclusions about the specifics of the bikes themselves. From a different premise and position, surely. I’m a bicyclist and a a motorcyclist, and I tend towards taut, supple, reasonably lightweight, comfortable things. Vehicles that feel good to ride, ride well and predictably and smoothly and go anywhere and do everything. Get out of the way. Disappear. An E-bike should: • Take up to 2.25” wide tires to be able to use Schwalbe Ice Spiker Pro tubeless winter tires. Studded 27.5x2.25” in icy seasons, 29x38mm or so for most everything else. (This might sound strange; idk. I was surprised by the unreasonable effectiveness of this setup.) • Should have carbon fiber rims because the ride is so, so nice. Tubeless. Tubes are a failure point. Tubeless or GTFO. • Should have drop bars with an “open” ergonomic flare. Most natural hand/shoulder position. Allows comfort while minimising drag and wind resistance in a tucked position as desired. • Should be a good bicycle – should ride well overall and be reasonably light. For me this rules out hub motors. (From these reasons I may conclude that E-bikes should be electric gravel bikes.) • Should have some form of controlled suspension. Just a little though. A cheap suspension fork isn’t worth the weight. A Lauf fork with flat glass-fiber springs would be excellent. That leaves the rear wheel non-suspended though. This means that the rider’s spine and the bicycle’s frame are coupled to the road surface, besides the tires’ squish. Good tires do make a big difference but I for one have made up my mind – modern materials allow for super lightweight controlled suspension and I want it and will seek it out. It’s worth it, not just for comfort: Bumps jolt the rider, and the weight of rider and bike are forced to move over bumps; Both cost energy. (Jolts and vibration are not physiologically trivial; Subtly draining.) So: Ideally the frame should have some form of rear suspension. Very few electric versions of nice-to-ride bicycle frames have rear suspension. Some carbon fiber frames have suspension designed into the flex of the frame but I haven’t found anything I like in e-bikes. I think Shimano make an aluminium gravel e-bike with some form of suspension in the rear triangle? There exist suspension seatposts. This is kind of clever. Should be pretty effective. The bike’s frame is unsuspended but the rider is suspended and decoupled and that’s where most of the mass is. And so. I stand to believe that Cairn bikes are the e-bikes to get. (And swap a few component out on.) Compared to bicycles they aren’t cheap, but compared to the full cost of a car they are. Even without externalities. Cairn E-Adventure: https://www.cairncycles.com/collections/ebikes-e-adventure https://www.cairncycles.com/collections/ebikes-e-adventure Cairn BRAVe: https://www.cairncycles.com/collections/e-bike-brave https://www.cairncycles.com/collections/e-bike-brave

oceanplexian 5y ago

Buy a Sur Ron and for slightly more money you have a 50MPH (80km/hr) machine that can tackle harsh off road and on road terrain, and has a large aftermarket parts community. Put the pedal kit on it and you can cruise around town like a bicycle if that’s your sort of thing.

gnarcoregrizz 5y ago
It felt wrong trying to pass mine off as an ebike even with a pedal kit, though everyone gets away with it here. Fortunately my moped plates just arrived which allows me to ride it in the bike lanes for streets where traffic is >30mph. Gotta say, the sur ron is the most fun thing I’ve ever bought. I use mine exclusively for off-roading and exploration. Im not so patiently awaiting my 3.5 kwh battery.

rkangel 5y ago

For all the useful information in this article I find it devalued by the first piece of advice being "absolutely just spend $2000 dollars without worrying too much and if you can't afford it just go into debt". I'm sure that getting past decision paralysis and buying something is a decision that most people won't regret, and ebike adoption is great for everyone, but the fact that this is a person with 30? 50? ebikes makes me sceptical that they have the normal buying influences the rest of us do.

bambax 5y ago

An option he doesn't seem to mention is to build your own ebike from an existing bike. Just buy a kit on AliExpress (motor & battery) and you're good to go. Costs are between €500-750 shipped, and many sellers have warehouses in Europe and the US so delivery is fast for the most common items. If you already have a bike that fits you, transforming it is a budget friendly solution. And if not, buying an ordinary used MTB will only add around 100-150 to the total cost of the project. It's not difficult to do, and it's a lot of fun.

tonyedgecombe 5y ago
I'm not sure a $150 MTB is going to have the brakes suitable for use with an e-bike. Then you have all the other stresses and strains beyond what would normally be expected.

jaclaz 5y ago

As a side note, and essentially reserved to EU/Italian nostalgics, there is now a small firm retrofitting the Piaggio Ciao as an e-bike: https://www.ambraitalia.it/cosa-facciamo https://www.ambraitalia.it/cosa-facciamo For those too young to remember the times, in the '70's the Ciao had become a synonym of "moped" as much as Vespa was a synonym of "scooter" and was ubiquitous. The finally assembled thing will probably be way too heavy if seen as a bike, but on the other hand the original Ciao was designed for 40 km/h speed, so at 25 km/h body, wheels and brakes should be "safer".

ubermonkey 5y ago

I'm a big road cyclist, so I really want one, because they're COOL, but I have ZERO use case for one. 1. My wife and I both work at home. No commute. 2. Because COVID, we have leaned towards either delivery groceries, or larger shopping trips done less frequently to avoid unnecessary exposure. A major shop-up is too much for a bike. 3. Our climate here is really really unpleasant for about half the year, so the quickie trips we might opt for a bike (e- or otherwise) become car trips by default if you don't want to arrive sweaty and disheveled.

Wubdidu 5y ago

We live in a big city in Germany with two kids and earlier this year bought the Tern GSD mentioned in the article with two children seats. We don't own a car. This thing gets so much mileage it was definitely worth the money. Before, we frequently rented a car from a car sharing service when we had really bad weather or needed to drive a longer distance - we now pretty much NEVER rent a car anymore. The bike is absolutely lovely, feels very safe and is a joy to ride. It was a painfully expensive purchase, but very worth it. When the kids get bigger we can exchange one of the seats with something comparable to a motorcycle back seat - a cushion and handlebars below the saddle - for the bigger kid. When they both grow out of it we can replace both seats with a chest or rack and have a very capable cargo bike. The whole bike is designed to not be much longer than a regular bike, so you can do pretty much everything you would usually be able to do, like putting it in a bike rack in the local trains and such. It also is built to be parked vertically due to support bars at the back tire (which, to be fair, doesn't work if you have two children seats, but still… nice feature). I love it.

gcrout 5y ago
Seconded. The Tern HSD / GSD is a game changer
larrymyers 5y ago
We love our 2 year old Tern GSD. It is such an amazing cargo bike. Carries both our kids, then sub out the seats for a crate and it’ll do a Costco trip with ease. I see a ton of them in Chicago, and everybody is usually smiling as they pedal.

artisanspam 5y ago

This[1] is the new bill in US congress that he mentioned about subsidies. The "E-BIKE" act. It's a tax credit of 30% of the cost of a new ebike. The credit can't exceed $1,500. This changes slightly if you file jointly, but you can just read the bill -- it's short. The author makes it seem like this bill a part of Build Back Better which just passed the House and is in the Senate now. But that's not what the bill timeline says. Personally, I'm waiting for this before I commit to a RadRunner Plus. [1] - https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/1019/text https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/1019...

GordonS 5y ago
I always wonder about the practically of these subsidies - would it still be considered "successful" if manufactures artificially inflated prices by 30% after the subsidies went live? I would have assumed that the main goal was to encourage consumers to buy, rather than to inflate manufacture profits, though the latter wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing (since it's rewarding companies for taking a risk and bringing new, more eco-friendly products to market).
- Scoundreller 5y ago
  Governments should also get free equity in the companies in these deals. Although you’ll probably see shell companies and locking out of new entrants if you do that, it still seems better for a lot of situations.
- qnsi 5y ago
  The manufacturers would have to collude to all rise prices. One rougue manufacturer can keep normal prices and grab the whole ebike market

deanc 5y ago

I own a Specialized Vado 4.0 SL EQ. I love it but won’t let it out my sight. I’ve yet to ride in bad weather as this thing has to come up six floors in an elevator and on the wall in our spare bedroom. You can imagine the hassle and mess that would make. I agree the killer features will be along the lines of anti theft but criminals are smart and will always find ways to steal. I think the killer feature for ebikes is infrastructure. Secure infrastructure and parking as well as cleaning facilities for those coming back into apartment complexes. A small hose and leaf blower would go a long way.

rob74 5y ago

Can anyone explain what the deal is with the Segway c80 and its "non-functional pedals"? I found a review here (https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/segway-emoped-c80-hands-on-with-segways-first-smart-e-bike/ https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/segway-emoped-c80-hands-o...), but even its author wasn't sure why this, er, vehicle, has pedals that you can't actually pedal without falling over. So I guess the pedals are there so it can be classified as an ebike and not as an e-scooter for tax/legal/whatever reasons?! In Germany IIRC the rules for an ebike which you can use without a license plate (same as a "classic" bicycle) is speed limited to < 25 km/h and that you actually have to pedal (however little) to get it to move, but I guess the regulations are different in other countries...

mettamage 5y ago

I thought about buying an ebike. I especially thought that going further than normal is indeed a great feature. Though, I've noticed just any decent second hand Dutch bike with a few gears will provide some of that as well since it allows you to give the maximum output that you desire. What I'm scared off with ebikes is that I'll be going too fast. On normal bikes I already go too fast. I recently got in an accident by getting stuck in the tram rails for the first time in my life and that went fine because I was cycling about 20km/h, but even the notch up to 25km/h or higher, I wonder what would've happened. I used to own a scooter that went 45km/h and had one very nasty fall from that once. With both these accidents I was in retrospect quite lucky in an unlucky situation. I guess it doesn't help that The Netherlands doesn't care about cycling helmets and that I also would never want to wear one.

peatmoss 5y ago

Ebikes are in a weird territory between bicycles and motorcycles. I occasionally see ebikes clipping along at a rate that would make me a lot happier with a full face helmet and some degree of abrasion resistance and soft armor. I guess this is technically true of bombing down hill on a conventionally powered bicycle as well (which I’ve done many times in shorts and with naught but an aerodynamic hunk of styrofoam strapped to my head). Still, I see ebikes pushing skin-removal speeds pretty routinely. From my adventures in motorcycling, I know that ABS yields somewhere between 30-40% reduction in crashes. I wonder if any of the higher-wattage ebikes are starting to explore those kinds of things? Similarly, I just paid an eye-wateringly high cost for new motorcycle tires, that are marvels of engineering in their own right. I wonder if high-powered ebikes are starting to use high-tech rubber for safety.

UI_at_80x24 5y ago

I ride a recumbent similar to this one: https://files.bikeindex.org/uploads/Pu/103421/Longbike_Slipstream_SN1293-_20170808_03.JPG https://files.bikeindex.org/uploads/Pu/103421/Longbike_Slips... I've looked into getting a mid-drive motor & batteries several years ago, but the price was close to $5,000! Have the prices substantially decreased? Is Baofeng still the goto solution for mid-drive motors? In addition, the laws restricting the speed are ridiculous. My top-speed on that bike is 62km/h, and my `cruising speed` is around 40km/h. So laws that limit the speed without taking into account the effort that I can add make no sense. Have the law be "upto 20km/h 'assisted boost'" or something. Where I live the max size of motor we can use is 500w. My bike weighs 50lbs all on it's own. A 500w motor powering a 10lbs bike is a far different animal then one on a 50lbs bike.

jascii 5y ago
I have a Tour Easy with a Tongshen TZSD2 mid drive with the open source firmware. Total cost of the conversion was about $1200 USD. Even when the electric assist was still limited to about 20mph, my commuting time went down my about 30% due to the higher speed on hill climbs. And I arrived at work without sweating to much! Delimiting it has allowed me to take a shorter route where I need to merge into 45mph traffic for a short stretch.

hsnewman 5y ago

Thank you for posting this, I'm very interested in an ebike but all the options are making the decision hard. This article is very helpful.

DonHopkins 5y ago

I got a Koga e-Nova (a high quality Dutch brand) with an Enviolo stepless automatic transmission and a Gates CDX belt drive, and it's buttery smooth and silent, fully sealed, low maintenance, and super easy stopping and starting at stoplights and drawbridges, and getting back up to speed really fast. It was not cheap, but I love it, it was well worth it, and it's an effortless delight to ride. https://www.koga.com/nl/elektrische-fietsen/e-nova-evo-pt-automatic?frame=L https://www.koga.com/nl/elektrische-fietsen/e-nova-evo-pt-au... The Enviolo hub is a continuously variable planetary transmission, with an automatic shifting option that lets you dial in your desired cadence, and it automatically and smoothly shifts up and down as required, while you can even pedal and apply power while it's shifting. No gears or sprockets or chains or clicks or clacks or slips or derailments or constant lubrication and cleaning, just planetary balls sealed in transmission fluid. https://enviolo.com/products/ https://enviolo.com/products/ >Enviolo Stepless Shifting: A smart range of hubs for different riders needs. >The continuously variable planetary (CVP) technology forms the foundation of all enviolo stepless shifting products. >The continuously and stepless variable planetary transmission enables cyclists to effortlessly change from one gear ratio to the next. Shifting while pedaling under high capacity has never been easier with enviolo. Is enviolo the best internally geared hub for eBikes? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vob5Rb4IKsw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vob5Rb4IKsw >If somebody asked me what my favorite drive train for electric bikes was, it would probably be the Enviolo hub. They have been around for a while but have been growing rapidly in popularity. In this video we’ll go over what the Enviolo hub is and who it is best for. Harley Davidson just released the Serial 1 eBike with the Enviolo Automatiq CVT: https://electricbikeaction.com/first-ride-serial-1-e-bikes-from-harley-davidson/ https://electricbikeaction.com/first-ride-serial-1-e-bikes-f... FIRST RIDE: Serial 1 Harley-Davidson e-bikes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHpsjDvZ-n4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHpsjDvZ-n4 >We had the chance to go for a ride with Serial 1 Brand Director Aaron Frank. The new Mosh/CTY and Rush/CTY bikes are well-priced, quiet, and really smooth to ride. The Rush bikes have the Enviolo Automatiq CVT, and all bikes have Brose mid-drive motors.

RobinL 5y ago
Does anyone know why quality e-bikes are so hugely expensive? I'd like one, but I wouldn't be comfortable leaving it anywhere due to risk of theft. A good quality ordinary bicycle is around £1,000. Spend much more and maybe it's lighter, or you get a fancy style, but it won't be dramatically more reliable. The batteries on e-bikes are surprisingly small relative to an electric car. e.g. a Kia e-Nero is 64 kWh and about £35k list price. Even the largest battery on the linked bike is 625Wh (0.625 kWh) i.e. one hundredth of the capacity of the car. So even if the cost of the Kia was all battery, the equivalent cost for the bike battery would be just £350. Are the electric motor and the other electrical components really that expensive? What am I missing?

peripitea 5y ago

He says not to buy one on Amazon, but I got mine on Amazon for $500 and it works great. Meanwhile the cheapest bike on his list is $1k.

Zarel 5y ago
Yeah, this would be much more persuasive if he gave more reasons about why not to buy from Amazon. (Mine shipped with a minor issue, but the seller agreed to reimburse me for the price my local repair shop charged to fix it.)