16 ms·

Can mRNA Vaccines Defeat Herpes?

167 points by jseliger 5y ago

lanevorockz 5y ago
mRNA vaccines are almost the opposite of what vaccines are supposed to do. Instead of building immunity in a society, it generates what is needed to stop the spread. The danger here is that the natural immunity to new diseases will disappear on the long term.
- piva00 5y ago
  Can you please expand on how mRNA vaccines are doing the opposite of building immunity in society? I don't really grasp this leap of logic in your argument, mRNA vaccines are just another way to trigger an immune response as far as I understand it.
- KoftaBob 5y ago
  This comment doesn't make much sense, and isn't in line with how vaccines or immunity works.
Justsignedup 5y ago
Mrna vaccine techniques could be the next leap we needed to actually combat viruses. Pretty amazing. I hope this ends up passing clinical trials soon.
- hammock 5y ago
  Why wait?
- downrightmike 5y ago
  Crispr and plucky scientists are getting really close https://www.fredhutch.org/en/news/center-news/2020/08/herpes-simplex-gene-therapy.html https://www.fredhutch.org/en/news/center-news/2020/08/herpes...
  - techdragon 5y ago
    I’m looking forward to seeing progress on things like this and equivalent work on HPV (for the other HPV variants and the massive bulk of the population that either because of age or gender didn’t get the now widespread HPV vaccine) It may not be a cure for HIV but it’s also the sort of thing that would be nice to eliminate from the variables at play in “healthy” that affect basically everything to do with medical science. Taking a few more variables out of the equations will hopefully make other things easier to study.
    - schleck8 5y ago
      > It may not be a cure for HIV CRISPR is most likely the cure for HIV as it can be used to modify embryonic DNA to create permanent immunity. That is actually what the first CRISPR embryo experiment tried to achieve a few years back in China.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - luciusdomitius 5y ago
        I still remember the video with the doctor explaining what he had done. Made me feel in a gattaca-like sci-fi movie. Shame that governments try to stomp over such people instead of embracing innovation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th0vnOmFltc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th0vnOmFltc
      - raducu 5y ago
        I'm not familiar with CRISPR technology, but afik the issue with HIV is you would have to target some deep reservoir cells within adult humans whereas targeting embryo cells would be easier. But I don't know how CRISPR is delivered to edit DNA in live cells.
      - eridan2 5y ago
        CRISPR will not be used to cure HIV (not in the way experimented in China) because the same mutation that confers resistance to HIV makes people more susceptible to infections by influenza and West Nile virus and it is associated with autoimmune conditions like Crohn’s disease and type 1 diabetes
- redis_mlc 5y ago
  MRNA vaccines could be monstrous - we have no long-term data on them. Most of our vaccine experience is with weakened or dead virii, but MRNA is a different thing. Note that MRNA, RNA and DNA are interchangeable genetic mechanisms and can transcript into each other. (There are recent papers published about this in 2021.) I just hope corona and MRNA vaccines don't turn out to be as dangerous as Zika, which started out as a curiosity in the press, and turned into a deadly threat to newborns. Corona attacks female reproductive tissues, so we'll learn over time.
- native_samples 5y ago
  How about they actually combat COVID first? Like, without needing to re-take them every few months. Recall that Moderna was failing to progress beyond animal trials as recently as 2017. The reason was their mRNA delivery tech became toxic given multiple doses. They had struggled with this problem for years but found a neat solution: pivot to vaccines, because as everyone knows, vaccines don't need multiple doses. They protect you for life. <facepalm> https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/10/moderna-trouble-mrna/ https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/10/moderna-trouble-mrna/ https://www.statnews.com/2017/07/27/moderna-alexion-partnership/ https://www.statnews.com/2017/07/27/moderna-alexion-partners...
  - dahfizz 5y ago
    Yeah, this has been yet another PR failure for Fauci. We went from the vaccine being "virtually 100% efficacious" to needing a booster every 6 months, and even then you can still catch, spread, or die from the virus. And yes, I know that this is common for vaccines. No vaccine is 100% effective. Which is why Fauci's testimony to the contrary was so irresponsible.
    - ipspam 5y ago
      No, it's not common for vaccines. That's a myth. Only the flu vaccine. It depends on the complexity of the mechanism of entering human cells. If the complexity is simple, mutations are not likely to screw up that mechanism, and vaccines are quite short lived, like the seasonal flu. When the complexity is high, like measles, mutations have a much higher chance of screwing something up, so evolution is retarded and vaccines are effective for a lifetime. This issue is being so pigheaded as to think that 16 billion vaccines can be created, deployed, and put in arms in a short enough time span to defeat a brand new, somewhat fast evolving virus before it selects to get around the vaccine. It was never going to work.
  - tchalla 5y ago
    > How about they actually combat COVID first? Like, without needing to re-take them every few months. I sense some frustration behind that comment. Two points 1) We don't see a decrease in Vaccine Effectiveness for Covid. The headlines you see confuse efficacy with effectiveness. There's no meaningful way to directly measure effectiveness and therefore, some studies use anti-bodies as a proxy. However, it should be noted that just because you do not have anti-bodies doesn't mean the effectiveness is reduced. The human body (T-Cells, B-Cells) are able to produce anti-bodies "on demand" as and when required. 2) The non-mRNA vaccines also reduce efficacy and we don't stop researching their benefits on other viruses. So, both of them are not mutually exclusive.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Iwan-Zotow 5y ago
Coronavirus has herpes?!
youeseh 5y ago
How about we go one at a time?
- cromka 5y ago
  We do.
  - Fordec 5y ago
    In that case, get off HN and get back to work! You're needed in the ICU. We can only do one thing at a time and you're here?? /s
    - gus_massa 5y ago
      I interpret the GP comment as like "we" are going to find a vaccine for one STD, and later for another, an a few months/years later a third one, and later ... It's not like that someone will go to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexually_transmitted_infection https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexually_transmitted_infection make a list, prepare a vaccine combos for all of them and release it in a big announcement.
      - cromka 5y ago
        That's precisely what I meant. The OP's post was a case (or a variation) of "Appeal to Worse Problems" fallacy.
- halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
  Imagine a world were concurrency is pegged to 1.
  - dboreham 5y ago
    That would be JavaScript.
    - 5y ago
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
nbzso 5y ago
Science and especially critical products cannot use the tech mantra "Move fast and break things". Clearly looking at the data from Israel - the most vaccinated country in the world - mRNA vaccines are not working as expected. MRNA is a revolution in bio-tech, but the last place that Hype has a place is in healthcare. The response of the governments and rushing towards a "solution" has created a climate in which critical thinking and peer review processes are replaced by political agendas , and labeling with conspiracy anything that is not "approved". Like Ivermectin which clearly is working and some countries are in clinical trials as we speak. Some critical information about Pfizers new drug: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufy2AweXRkc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufy2AweXRkc Some thoughts on spike protein in vaccines: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Unt03UBhbU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Unt03UBhbU More thoughts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jNo0on8vhg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jNo0on8vhg
- jerlam 5y ago
  > Israel - the most vaccinated country in the world You should be aware that Israel's vaccination rate (62%) is only modestly above that of the United States (58%) and well below that of Japan (77%) and Canada (76%). Israel was fortunate to deploy vaccines much earlier than most countries, and have the benefit of deploying additional boosters, but they are far from the most vaccinated country.
  - defaultprimate 5y ago
    Israel was over 78% fully vaccinated in August https://www.science.org/content/article/grim-warning-israel-vaccination-blunts-does-not-defeat-delt https://www.science.org/content/article/grim-warning-israel-...
- Pyramus 5y ago
  > Clearly looking at the data from Israel - the most vaccinated country in the world - mRNA vaccines are not working as expected. What do you mean exactly? A quick back of the envelope calculation shows that Israel's approach is equivalent to saving half a million lives in the US! 500,000! Data from [1] > Like Ivermectin which clearly is working and some countries are in clinical trials as we speak. Turns out the countries where Ivermectin is most effective are the ones, where parasites are most prevalent [2]. [1] https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/israel/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/israel/ [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29249686 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29249686
Factorium 5y ago
- rowanG077 5y ago
  I haven't heard of a single person dropping out due to the vaccine. Mind sharing some papers?
  - jmnicolas 5y ago
    I don't have any scientific papers, but I can tell you it's frequent to read in the local newspaper here (east of France) about some cardiac problem on amateur football (soccer) fields. The last I read last week the guy's heart stopped 2 times before he could be rushed to the hospital. There's also a list that is circulating on social medias of celebrities that had problems after their vaccines. Is it linked? I don't know, but before the vaccines these kind of problems were almost unheard of.
    - rowanG077 5y ago
      Then let's wait until we have real data before jumping to conclusions. Your environment may just be a statistical outlier. Or you are more attuned to it because of the Baader-Meinhof phenomenon.
      - Leparamour 5y ago
        >Then let's wait until we have real data before jumping to conclusions. What kind of proof would convince you that the 'vaccine' is in fact the biggest blunder or the biggest planned depopulation event in history? A written confession from Arch Lector Sult?
        rowanG077 5y ago
        a peer reviewed study in a well known scientific journal.
encryptluks2 5y ago
If you haven't seen the TV show Future Man... I believe this is what ultimately causes the end of humankind as we know it.
- bigmattystyles 5y ago
  Loved that show! I don’t know where they found the guy who played wolf, but he is awesome.
AndrewBissell 5y ago
Good news for anyone whose mRNA COVID vaccine reactivated their herpes, I suppose. https://academic.oup.com/qjmed/article/114/7/531/6325520 https://academic.oup.com/qjmed/article/114/7/531/6325520
- hannob 5y ago
  Not sure where to start... 1. These are case reports. Like... three (and they didn't all get the mRNA covid vaccine). The most likely explanation is that these happened by random chance. 2. This is about Herpes Zoster, not the "normal" Herpes Simplex. There already is a vaccine for Herpes Zoster.
  - ryanobjc 5y ago
    Since Herpes Zoster reoccurrence can be triggered by stress, or many other environmental factors, the base rate is that there would be some reoccurrence after a vaccination. In fact if this number was 0, that would be it's own paper and a PhD waiting for someone righ there. The base-rate fallacy drives a lot of 'but the vaccine did X'. Plus it's publish or perish you know.
    - hnbad 5y ago
      FWIW in Germany the vaccination center I was at had ads for a free official app for tracking symptoms post-vax in scheduled intervals. The app explicitly insisted you list all symptoms even if you believe them to be unrelated. If you got the flu a week after your shot or get digestive issues from the all you can eat two days later, those symptoms go in the app. Since the base rate is generally unknown, it's safer to track everything and then list side-effects based on frequency. This is all normal and unconcerning. The only thing unusual is how much data we have on the vaccines because we have literally billions of people vaccinated world-wide and an intense public and political interest in observing the outcomes.
      - tialaramex 5y ago
        Most advanced countries have surveillance in place for all medical interventions. In the UK we have the "Yellow card scheme". Most submissions are by medics but patients can write up their own reports too. Lying doesn't really matter because they're looking for patterns, so a few people writing nonsense doesn't trip the process up (but of course, please don't lie). However, we don't have good baseline data. One thing that surprised me was, for the HPV vaccine which was initially being given specifically to teenage girls, they didn't have baseline menstruation symptom data. So, does having the HPV jab tend to make your period late? early? heavier? How often? We have no idea because we had no baseline data. Maybe the reports you get are actually normal - prompted only by the recent vaccination. Or maybe they aren't. If you were going to pick a group of patients likely to freak out because of minor and inconsequential menstrual changes you would pick teenage girls, but nobody had this data. Not just in the US, everywhere doesn't have this data. For easy stuff like "Do people drop dead when they take this vaccine?" we know long before authorisation if there's a big problem. But for subtle effects it's invisible until surveillance and without a baseline we have to guess what's important unless the numbers are overwhelming.
helge9210 5y ago
> The goals of a HSV-2 vaccine are to keep the herpes virus dormant Combined with effect being limited in time (say, for half a year) this would create a steady revenue stream.
- _Microft 5y ago
  This statement seems to assume that a limited duration of protection is a given. We don't know that. It could also as well be that it is actually impossible to clear out all reservoirs of the virus in the body once someone was infected. No need to assume nefarious intent (i.e. it being designed to keep people sick) right from the beginning.
  - helge9210 5y ago
    It was more of "If I would have to make sure there will be a steady revenue stream in the future, I would also try to achieve a limited time protection effect".
    - yuvalr1 5y ago
      What's good about open markets is that if someone else finds a permanent protection, then people will stop using your product and start using his/hers. This gives you an incentive to create such product yourself.
      - fragmede 5y ago
        Nah. Talk to the other producer(s) in secret and make a gentleman's agreement not to create a permanent cure. The regulations surrounding pharmaceuticals is enough to prevent other companies from entering the market. Illegal as shit but crimes have happened before.
        thefounder 5y ago
        What's the solution? Maybe more gov investment? The chinese surely have that part covered.
02020202 5y ago
these are not vaccines. stop with the propaganda ffs.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
junon 5y ago
Side note: happy to see the armchair virologists getting (rightfully) flagged on this thread. A rare sight here on HN.
- Pyramus 5y ago
  It takes a while until the voting takes effect. Scrolling through the replies in a Covid or vaccine related post shortly after posting is an eerie experience.
  - thedream 5y ago
    It is eerie to see engineers so terrified of wrongthink that they clamor for censorship rather than engaging with the ideas presented. Garbage in, garbage out.
    - junon 5y ago
      "Wrongthink" and "misinformation" are two separate things. Seeing misinformation flagged and hidden is great.
      - thedream 5y ago
        You are equating "misinformation" with "ideas the collective does not like". If you don't see the problem with that, it's already too late for you. Garbage in, garbage out.
        junon 5y ago
        "Garbage in, garbage out" means nothing in this context yet you keep throwing it around to punctuate a very confusing and misguided point. Also loving this typical cop-out argument of "If you don't see the problem then there's no hope". Either explain your weird stance further or stop getting fussy when people decide they don't want to listen to you. We're not lemmings, we're capable of analyzing situations with a critical eye.
arcanon 5y ago
Super excited for the second sexual revolution after we cure STDs
- zohch 5y ago
  Why?
  - nazgulsenpai 5y ago
    Sex.
    - zohch 5y ago
      Is the inadequacy of existing mechanisms to protect against STDs your primary impediment for having sex at the moment? I somehow doubt it given that the mechanisms to protect against STDs are much better than before, the treatments when you do get them are much better than before, and even with all of this Millennials and Gen Z are having much less sex than older generations.
      - retrac 5y ago
        > Is the inadequacy of existing mechanisms to protect against STDs your primary impediment for having sex at the moment? Consider scale. There are plenty of people who would love to take part in giant group orgies, at least once in a while, if there were no risk of communicable disease. Everyone has their own idea of what a utopia might look like, I suppose.
        zohch 5y ago
        > Consider scale. Show me that at scale people are happier if they have lots of anonymous sex and giant group orgies. But fair enough, if your primary impediment to having sex is that you want to engage in group orgies and just do not feel this is safe enough without better STD vaccines, then the mRNA vaccine revolution may be the silver bullet you have been looking for, hope it delivers for you.
WalterBright 5y ago
Herpes is likely one of the causes of Alzheimer's. mRNA technology is so promising I bought some biotech ETFs early in the year (they're all underwater at the moment, but I'm looking for a 10-20 year payoff, so that's no problem).
- Hallucinaut 5y ago
  Indeed. It's concerning enough to me to warrant getting the chickenpox vaccine as a fully-grown adult. Though I realise HSV-1 != Herpes zoster, the effect of later life shingles does show the recurrent, latent effects of the herpes virus family enough to push me towards it.
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    You can get a shingles vaccine.
lbj 5y ago
Currently countries with higher mRNA COVID vaccine coverage have (slightly) higher covid-mortality than countries with low/lower vaccine coverage, so I'm not hopeful. I think crispr might have better odds. source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8481107/?fbclid=IwAR1OBwinzGjPsBAf62_zA3R8woqZkNCCA-wy_d3tAMOr7ARi_L8bLnzO-Qc https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8481107/?fbclid...
- ekelsen 5y ago
  This article talks about infection rates not mortality. There's a big difference.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - lbj 5y ago
    You need to read the full text I'm afraid: "Even though vaccinations offers protection to individuals against severe hospitalization and death, the CDC reported an increase from 0.01 to 9% and 0 to 15.1% (between January to May 2021) in the rates of hospitalizations and deaths, respectively, amongst the fully vaccinated"
    - detaro 5y ago
      ... that's not what your original comment was claiming the link is a source for.
      - lbj 5y ago
        Correct. But also, its not something you can draw that many conclusions from. For instance, I would need to see which variants were responsible for those admissions, as the vaccine might have better results on some than others. But nevertheless its important to collect as much data as possible.
    - KoftaBob 5y ago
      The sentence immediately before it provides important context as to what it's referring to: > A substantial decline in immunity from mRNA vaccines 6-months post immunization has also been reported [9]. >Even though vaccinations offers protection to individuals against severe hospitalization and death, the CDC reported an increase from 0.01 to 9% and 0 to 15.1% (between January to May 2021) in the rates of hospitalizations and deaths, respectively, amongst the fully vaccinated [10]. It's referring to an increase in hospitalization/death 6 months after vaccination, compared to when you're first vaccinated. That's very very different from your statement that "countries with higher mRNA COVID vaccine coverage have (slightly) higher covid-mortality than countries with low/lower vaccine coverage".
TheBlight 5y ago
They haven't done much to defeat coronavirus so far.
cortexio 5y ago
well. it cant defeat covid.. so. probably not. but u can try. who knows.
Symmetry 5y ago
Very nice. Too bad this probably won't work with the worst virus in the herpes family, Cytomegalovirus, for the same reason our immune system struggles to keep up with it. https://denovo.substack.com/p/cytomegalovirus-the-worst-herpesvirus https://denovo.substack.com/p/cytomegalovirus-the-worst-herp...
- saxonww 5y ago
  Anyone know whether the [REDACTED] really needs to be? Of course for a lot of us this is a big neon sign saying "something interesting here!" It says need to know for biosecurity/policymaking, so I'm guessing it's something about weaponization.
DantesKite 5y ago
I certainly hope so.
jojospindo 5y ago
Nothing can compare the joy in my heart for being free from this terrible disease Herpes, for a long time I suffered from it not until I saw a review on Dr OSE and how he cured someone from HPV. I contacted him and bought his herbal medicine, Now I am living a healthy life and free from the virus .No disease that herbal medicine cannot be cured..NATURE HEALS US ALL THROUGH HERBS contact him ...droseherbalhome@gmail.com.. now i believe that herbs can cure viruses and disease completely.
jojospindo 5y ago
Nothing can compare the joy in my heart for being free from this terrible disease Herpes, for a long time I suffered from it not until I saw a review on Dr OSE and how he cured someone from HPV. I contacted him and bought his herbal medicine, Now I am living a healthy life and free from the virus .No disease that herbal medicine cannot be cured..NATURE HEALS US ALL THROUGH HERBS contact him ...droseherbalhome@gmail.com.. now i believe that herbs can cure viruses and disease completely. ....
Lucymorrison 5y ago
I have been suffering from (HERPES SIMPLEX VIRUS) disease for the past four years and had constant pain, especially in my private parts. During the first year, I had faith in God that i would be healed someday. This disease started circulating all over my body and I have been taking treatment from my doctor, few weeks ago I came on search on the internet if I could get any information concerning the prevention of this disease, on my search I saw a testimony of someone who has been cured from (HERPES VIRUS) by this Man Dr ODIDI and she gave the email address of this man and advise we should contact him for any sickness that he would be of help, so I wrote to Dr.ODIDI telling him about my (HERPES VIRUS) he told me not to worry that I was going to be cured!! hmm I never believed it,, well after all the procedures and remedy given to me by this man few weeks later I started experiencing changes all over me as the Dr assured me that I have been cured, after some time I went to my doctor to confirmed if I have be finally healed behold it was TRUE, So friends my advice is if you have any type of sickness or Relationship problem you can email Dr. Odidi on (odidispelltemple@gmail.com Or whatsApp +2349077057670. Website::: http://drodidisolutioncenter.weebly.com http://drodidisolutioncenter.weebly.com
Lucymorrison 5y ago
Wonderful, My heart is full of Joy. i don't know how to thank you Lord for what you have use Dr Odidi to do in my life. All thanks to God Almighty who use Dr Odidi to cure me from Herpes virus with his herbal Medicine, For those suffering from the same Virus You can call Or WhatsApp Dr Odidi on (+2349077057670) Email:: odidispelltemple@gmail.com he can also cure your health issues Like HBP, Hepatitis B Virus, Herpes child bearing and Pile Infection etc... Information is power that's why i decided to share the Good News and to also save someone's Life Website::: http://drodidisolutioncenter.weebly.com http://drodidisolutioncenter.weebly.com
jojospindo 5y ago
I am very happy to inform the general public that I am finally cured from Herpes simplex virus recently with the use of herbal medicine, the powerful herbal medicine cured me completely and i was tested negative after usage, I am using this means to inform others who have the virus or any virus/disease that there is a cure for All Disease. It is absolutely true. I was cured by Dr OSE, only him I can recognize who cure Herpes perfectly well. I will advise you to contact this great doctor who God has sent to put an end to the sorrowful and deadly disease. Contact him via Email:droseherbalhome@gmail.com
humberto_mave 5y ago
My profound gratitude to Dr Zack Balo whom cured me of my herpes virus that i have been suffering from the past 8 months. few weeks after i used his herbal medication i became fully cured. You can also contact him for your cure via email: wiseindividualspell@gmail.com or call/text him on +17633086495 and you can also visit his website: http://drzackbalo.website2.me http://drzackbalo.website2.me for more information.
humberto_mave 5y ago
My profound gratitude to Dr Zack Balo whom cured me of my herpes virus that i have been suffering from the past 8 months. few weeks after i used his herbal medication i became fully cured. You can also contact him for your cure via email: wiseindividualspell@gmail. com or call/text him on +17633086495 and you can also visit his website: http://drzackbalo.website2.me http://drzackbalo.website2.me for more information.

167 points by jseliger 5y ago

mRNA vaccines are almost the opposite of what vaccines are supposed to do. Instead of building immunity in a society, it generates what is needed to stop the spread. The danger here is that the natural immunity to new diseases will disappear on the long term.

piva00 5y ago
Can you please expand on how mRNA vaccines are doing the opposite of building immunity in society? I don't really grasp this leap of logic in your argument, mRNA vaccines are just another way to trigger an immune response as far as I understand it.
KoftaBob 5y ago
This comment doesn't make much sense, and isn't in line with how vaccines or immunity works.

Justsignedup 5y ago

Mrna vaccine techniques could be the next leap we needed to actually combat viruses. Pretty amazing. I hope this ends up passing clinical trials soon.

hammock 5y ago
Why wait?
downrightmike 5y ago
Crispr and plucky scientists are getting really close https://www.fredhutch.org/en/news/center-news/2020/08/herpes-simplex-gene-therapy.html https://www.fredhutch.org/en/news/center-news/2020/08/herpes...
- techdragon 5y ago
  I’m looking forward to seeing progress on things like this and equivalent work on HPV (for the other HPV variants and the massive bulk of the population that either because of age or gender didn’t get the now widespread HPV vaccine) It may not be a cure for HIV but it’s also the sort of thing that would be nice to eliminate from the variables at play in “healthy” that affect basically everything to do with medical science. Taking a few more variables out of the equations will hopefully make other things easier to study.
  - schleck8 5y ago
    > It may not be a cure for HIV CRISPR is most likely the cure for HIV as it can be used to modify embryonic DNA to create permanent immunity. That is actually what the first CRISPR embryo experiment tried to achieve a few years back in China.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - luciusdomitius 5y ago
      I still remember the video with the doctor explaining what he had done. Made me feel in a gattaca-like sci-fi movie. Shame that governments try to stomp over such people instead of embracing innovation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th0vnOmFltc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th0vnOmFltc
    - raducu 5y ago
      I'm not familiar with CRISPR technology, but afik the issue with HIV is you would have to target some deep reservoir cells within adult humans whereas targeting embryo cells would be easier. But I don't know how CRISPR is delivered to edit DNA in live cells.
    - eridan2 5y ago
      CRISPR will not be used to cure HIV (not in the way experimented in China) because the same mutation that confers resistance to HIV makes people more susceptible to infections by influenza and West Nile virus and it is associated with autoimmune conditions like Crohn’s disease and type 1 diabetes
redis_mlc 5y ago
MRNA vaccines could be monstrous - we have no long-term data on them. Most of our vaccine experience is with weakened or dead virii, but MRNA is a different thing. Note that MRNA, RNA and DNA are interchangeable genetic mechanisms and can transcript into each other. (There are recent papers published about this in 2021.) I just hope corona and MRNA vaccines don't turn out to be as dangerous as Zika, which started out as a curiosity in the press, and turned into a deadly threat to newborns. Corona attacks female reproductive tissues, so we'll learn over time.
native_samples 5y ago
How about they actually combat COVID first? Like, without needing to re-take them every few months. Recall that Moderna was failing to progress beyond animal trials as recently as 2017. The reason was their mRNA delivery tech became toxic given multiple doses. They had struggled with this problem for years but found a neat solution: pivot to vaccines, because as everyone knows, vaccines don't need multiple doses. They protect you for life. <facepalm> https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/10/moderna-trouble-mrna/ https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/10/moderna-trouble-mrna/ https://www.statnews.com/2017/07/27/moderna-alexion-partnership/ https://www.statnews.com/2017/07/27/moderna-alexion-partners...
- dahfizz 5y ago
  Yeah, this has been yet another PR failure for Fauci. We went from the vaccine being "virtually 100% efficacious" to needing a booster every 6 months, and even then you can still catch, spread, or die from the virus. And yes, I know that this is common for vaccines. No vaccine is 100% effective. Which is why Fauci's testimony to the contrary was so irresponsible.
  - ipspam 5y ago
    No, it's not common for vaccines. That's a myth. Only the flu vaccine. It depends on the complexity of the mechanism of entering human cells. If the complexity is simple, mutations are not likely to screw up that mechanism, and vaccines are quite short lived, like the seasonal flu. When the complexity is high, like measles, mutations have a much higher chance of screwing something up, so evolution is retarded and vaccines are effective for a lifetime. This issue is being so pigheaded as to think that 16 billion vaccines can be created, deployed, and put in arms in a short enough time span to defeat a brand new, somewhat fast evolving virus before it selects to get around the vaccine. It was never going to work.
- tchalla 5y ago
  > How about they actually combat COVID first? Like, without needing to re-take them every few months. I sense some frustration behind that comment. Two points 1) We don't see a decrease in Vaccine Effectiveness for Covid. The headlines you see confuse efficacy with effectiveness. There's no meaningful way to directly measure effectiveness and therefore, some studies use anti-bodies as a proxy. However, it should be noted that just because you do not have anti-bodies doesn't mean the effectiveness is reduced. The human body (T-Cells, B-Cells) are able to produce anti-bodies "on demand" as and when required. 2) The non-mRNA vaccines also reduce efficacy and we don't stop researching their benefits on other viruses. So, both of them are not mutually exclusive.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

Iwan-Zotow 5y ago

Coronavirus has herpes?!

youeseh 5y ago

How about we go one at a time?

cromka 5y ago
We do.
- Fordec 5y ago
  In that case, get off HN and get back to work! You're needed in the ICU. We can only do one thing at a time and you're here?? /s
  - gus_massa 5y ago
    I interpret the GP comment as like "we" are going to find a vaccine for one STD, and later for another, an a few months/years later a third one, and later ... It's not like that someone will go to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexually_transmitted_infection https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexually_transmitted_infection make a list, prepare a vaccine combos for all of them and release it in a big announcement.
    - cromka 5y ago
      That's precisely what I meant. The OP's post was a case (or a variation) of "Appeal to Worse Problems" fallacy.
halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
Imagine a world were concurrency is pegged to 1.
- dboreham 5y ago
  That would be JavaScript.
  - 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

nbzso 5y ago

Science and especially critical products cannot use the tech mantra "Move fast and break things". Clearly looking at the data from Israel - the most vaccinated country in the world - mRNA vaccines are not working as expected. MRNA is a revolution in bio-tech, but the last place that Hype has a place is in healthcare. The response of the governments and rushing towards a "solution" has created a climate in which critical thinking and peer review processes are replaced by political agendas , and labeling with conspiracy anything that is not "approved". Like Ivermectin which clearly is working and some countries are in clinical trials as we speak. Some critical information about Pfizers new drug: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufy2AweXRkc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufy2AweXRkc Some thoughts on spike protein in vaccines: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Unt03UBhbU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Unt03UBhbU More thoughts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jNo0on8vhg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jNo0on8vhg

jerlam 5y ago
> Israel - the most vaccinated country in the world You should be aware that Israel's vaccination rate (62%) is only modestly above that of the United States (58%) and well below that of Japan (77%) and Canada (76%). Israel was fortunate to deploy vaccines much earlier than most countries, and have the benefit of deploying additional boosters, but they are far from the most vaccinated country.
- defaultprimate 5y ago
  Israel was over 78% fully vaccinated in August https://www.science.org/content/article/grim-warning-israel-vaccination-blunts-does-not-defeat-delt https://www.science.org/content/article/grim-warning-israel-...
Pyramus 5y ago
> Clearly looking at the data from Israel - the most vaccinated country in the world - mRNA vaccines are not working as expected. What do you mean exactly? A quick back of the envelope calculation shows that Israel's approach is equivalent to saving half a million lives in the US! 500,000! Data from [1] > Like Ivermectin which clearly is working and some countries are in clinical trials as we speak. Turns out the countries where Ivermectin is most effective are the ones, where parasites are most prevalent [2]. [1] https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/israel/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/israel/ [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29249686 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29249686

Factorium 5y ago

rowanG077 5y ago
I haven't heard of a single person dropping out due to the vaccine. Mind sharing some papers?
- jmnicolas 5y ago
  I don't have any scientific papers, but I can tell you it's frequent to read in the local newspaper here (east of France) about some cardiac problem on amateur football (soccer) fields. The last I read last week the guy's heart stopped 2 times before he could be rushed to the hospital. There's also a list that is circulating on social medias of celebrities that had problems after their vaccines. Is it linked? I don't know, but before the vaccines these kind of problems were almost unheard of.
  - rowanG077 5y ago
    Then let's wait until we have real data before jumping to conclusions. Your environment may just be a statistical outlier. Or you are more attuned to it because of the Baader-Meinhof phenomenon.
    - Leparamour 5y ago
      >Then let's wait until we have real data before jumping to conclusions. What kind of proof would convince you that the 'vaccine' is in fact the biggest blunder or the biggest planned depopulation event in history? A written confession from Arch Lector Sult?
      - rowanG077 5y ago
        a peer reviewed study in a well known scientific journal.

encryptluks2 5y ago

If you haven't seen the TV show Future Man... I believe this is what ultimately causes the end of humankind as we know it.

bigmattystyles 5y ago
Loved that show! I don’t know where they found the guy who played wolf, but he is awesome.

AndrewBissell 5y ago

Good news for anyone whose mRNA COVID vaccine reactivated their herpes, I suppose. https://academic.oup.com/qjmed/article/114/7/531/6325520 https://academic.oup.com/qjmed/article/114/7/531/6325520

hannob 5y ago
Not sure where to start... 1. These are case reports. Like... three (and they didn't all get the mRNA covid vaccine). The most likely explanation is that these happened by random chance. 2. This is about Herpes Zoster, not the "normal" Herpes Simplex. There already is a vaccine for Herpes Zoster.
- ryanobjc 5y ago
  Since Herpes Zoster reoccurrence can be triggered by stress, or many other environmental factors, the base rate is that there would be some reoccurrence after a vaccination. In fact if this number was 0, that would be it's own paper and a PhD waiting for someone righ there. The base-rate fallacy drives a lot of 'but the vaccine did X'. Plus it's publish or perish you know.
  - hnbad 5y ago
    FWIW in Germany the vaccination center I was at had ads for a free official app for tracking symptoms post-vax in scheduled intervals. The app explicitly insisted you list all symptoms even if you believe them to be unrelated. If you got the flu a week after your shot or get digestive issues from the all you can eat two days later, those symptoms go in the app. Since the base rate is generally unknown, it's safer to track everything and then list side-effects based on frequency. This is all normal and unconcerning. The only thing unusual is how much data we have on the vaccines because we have literally billions of people vaccinated world-wide and an intense public and political interest in observing the outcomes.
    - tialaramex 5y ago
      Most advanced countries have surveillance in place for all medical interventions. In the UK we have the "Yellow card scheme". Most submissions are by medics but patients can write up their own reports too. Lying doesn't really matter because they're looking for patterns, so a few people writing nonsense doesn't trip the process up (but of course, please don't lie). However, we don't have good baseline data. One thing that surprised me was, for the HPV vaccine which was initially being given specifically to teenage girls, they didn't have baseline menstruation symptom data. So, does having the HPV jab tend to make your period late? early? heavier? How often? We have no idea because we had no baseline data. Maybe the reports you get are actually normal - prompted only by the recent vaccination. Or maybe they aren't. If you were going to pick a group of patients likely to freak out because of minor and inconsequential menstrual changes you would pick teenage girls, but nobody had this data. Not just in the US, everywhere doesn't have this data. For easy stuff like "Do people drop dead when they take this vaccine?" we know long before authorisation if there's a big problem. But for subtle effects it's invisible until surveillance and without a baseline we have to guess what's important unless the numbers are overwhelming.

helge9210 5y ago

> The goals of a HSV-2 vaccine are to keep the herpes virus dormant Combined with effect being limited in time (say, for half a year) this would create a steady revenue stream.

_Microft 5y ago
This statement seems to assume that a limited duration of protection is a given. We don't know that. It could also as well be that it is actually impossible to clear out all reservoirs of the virus in the body once someone was infected. No need to assume nefarious intent (i.e. it being designed to keep people sick) right from the beginning.
- helge9210 5y ago
  It was more of "If I would have to make sure there will be a steady revenue stream in the future, I would also try to achieve a limited time protection effect".
  - yuvalr1 5y ago
    What's good about open markets is that if someone else finds a permanent protection, then people will stop using your product and start using his/hers. This gives you an incentive to create such product yourself.
    - fragmede 5y ago
      Nah. Talk to the other producer(s) in secret and make a gentleman's agreement not to create a permanent cure. The regulations surrounding pharmaceuticals is enough to prevent other companies from entering the market. Illegal as shit but crimes have happened before.
      - thefounder 5y ago
        What's the solution? Maybe more gov investment? The chinese surely have that part covered.

02020202 5y ago

these are not vaccines. stop with the propaganda ffs.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

junon 5y ago

Side note: happy to see the armchair virologists getting (rightfully) flagged on this thread. A rare sight here on HN.

Pyramus 5y ago
It takes a while until the voting takes effect. Scrolling through the replies in a Covid or vaccine related post shortly after posting is an eerie experience.
- thedream 5y ago
  It is eerie to see engineers so terrified of wrongthink that they clamor for censorship rather than engaging with the ideas presented. Garbage in, garbage out.
  - junon 5y ago
    "Wrongthink" and "misinformation" are two separate things. Seeing misinformation flagged and hidden is great.
    - thedream 5y ago
      You are equating "misinformation" with "ideas the collective does not like". If you don't see the problem with that, it's already too late for you. Garbage in, garbage out.
      - junon 5y ago
        "Garbage in, garbage out" means nothing in this context yet you keep throwing it around to punctuate a very confusing and misguided point. Also loving this typical cop-out argument of "If you don't see the problem then there's no hope". Either explain your weird stance further or stop getting fussy when people decide they don't want to listen to you. We're not lemmings, we're capable of analyzing situations with a critical eye.

arcanon 5y ago

Super excited for the second sexual revolution after we cure STDs

zohch 5y ago
Why?
- nazgulsenpai 5y ago
  Sex.
  - zohch 5y ago
    Is the inadequacy of existing mechanisms to protect against STDs your primary impediment for having sex at the moment? I somehow doubt it given that the mechanisms to protect against STDs are much better than before, the treatments when you do get them are much better than before, and even with all of this Millennials and Gen Z are having much less sex than older generations.
    - retrac 5y ago
      > Is the inadequacy of existing mechanisms to protect against STDs your primary impediment for having sex at the moment? Consider scale. There are plenty of people who would love to take part in giant group orgies, at least once in a while, if there were no risk of communicable disease. Everyone has their own idea of what a utopia might look like, I suppose.
      - zohch 5y ago
        > Consider scale. Show me that at scale people are happier if they have lots of anonymous sex and giant group orgies. But fair enough, if your primary impediment to having sex is that you want to engage in group orgies and just do not feel this is safe enough without better STD vaccines, then the mRNA vaccine revolution may be the silver bullet you have been looking for, hope it delivers for you.

WalterBright 5y ago

Herpes is likely one of the causes of Alzheimer's. mRNA technology is so promising I bought some biotech ETFs early in the year (they're all underwater at the moment, but I'm looking for a 10-20 year payoff, so that's no problem).

Hallucinaut 5y ago
Indeed. It's concerning enough to me to warrant getting the chickenpox vaccine as a fully-grown adult. Though I realise HSV-1 != Herpes zoster, the effect of later life shingles does show the recurrent, latent effects of the herpes virus family enough to push me towards it.
- WalterBright 5y ago
  You can get a shingles vaccine.

lbj 5y ago

Currently countries with higher mRNA COVID vaccine coverage have (slightly) higher covid-mortality than countries with low/lower vaccine coverage, so I'm not hopeful. I think crispr might have better odds. source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8481107/?fbclid=IwAR1OBwinzGjPsBAf62_zA3R8woqZkNCCA-wy_d3tAMOr7ARi_L8bLnzO-Qc https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8481107/?fbclid...

ekelsen 5y ago
This article talks about infection rates not mortality. There's a big difference.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- lbj 5y ago
  You need to read the full text I'm afraid: "Even though vaccinations offers protection to individuals against severe hospitalization and death, the CDC reported an increase from 0.01 to 9% and 0 to 15.1% (between January to May 2021) in the rates of hospitalizations and deaths, respectively, amongst the fully vaccinated"
  - detaro 5y ago
    ... that's not what your original comment was claiming the link is a source for.
    - lbj 5y ago
      Correct. But also, its not something you can draw that many conclusions from. For instance, I would need to see which variants were responsible for those admissions, as the vaccine might have better results on some than others. But nevertheless its important to collect as much data as possible.
  - KoftaBob 5y ago
    The sentence immediately before it provides important context as to what it's referring to: > A substantial decline in immunity from mRNA vaccines 6-months post immunization has also been reported [9]. >Even though vaccinations offers protection to individuals against severe hospitalization and death, the CDC reported an increase from 0.01 to 9% and 0 to 15.1% (between January to May 2021) in the rates of hospitalizations and deaths, respectively, amongst the fully vaccinated [10]. It's referring to an increase in hospitalization/death 6 months after vaccination, compared to when you're first vaccinated. That's very very different from your statement that "countries with higher mRNA COVID vaccine coverage have (slightly) higher covid-mortality than countries with low/lower vaccine coverage".

TheBlight 5y ago

They haven't done much to defeat coronavirus so far.

cortexio 5y ago

well. it cant defeat covid.. so. probably not. but u can try. who knows.

Symmetry 5y ago

Very nice. Too bad this probably won't work with the worst virus in the herpes family, Cytomegalovirus, for the same reason our immune system struggles to keep up with it. https://denovo.substack.com/p/cytomegalovirus-the-worst-herpesvirus https://denovo.substack.com/p/cytomegalovirus-the-worst-herp...

saxonww 5y ago
Anyone know whether the [REDACTED] really needs to be? Of course for a lot of us this is a big neon sign saying "something interesting here!" It says need to know for biosecurity/policymaking, so I'm guessing it's something about weaponization.

DantesKite 5y ago

I certainly hope so.

jojospindo 5y ago

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jojospindo 5y ago

Lucymorrison 5y ago

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Lucymorrison 5y ago

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jojospindo 5y ago

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humberto_mave 5y ago

My profound gratitude to Dr Zack Balo whom cured me of my herpes virus that i have been suffering from the past 8 months. few weeks after i used his herbal medication i became fully cured. You can also contact him for your cure via email: wiseindividualspell@gmail.com or call/text him on +17633086495 and you can also visit his website: http://drzackbalo.website2.me http://drzackbalo.website2.me for more information.

humberto_mave 5y ago

My profound gratitude to Dr Zack Balo whom cured me of my herpes virus that i have been suffering from the past 8 months. few weeks after i used his herbal medication i became fully cured. You can also contact him for your cure via email: wiseindividualspell@gmail. com or call/text him on +17633086495 and you can also visit his website: http://drzackbalo.website2.me http://drzackbalo.website2.me for more information.