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"'Electric SUVs as a vehicle category is the absolute bottom in terms of reliability," Consumer Reports director of vehicle testing Jake Fisher said Thursday du
by neom 5y ago
"'Electric SUVs as a vehicle category is the absolute bottom in terms of reliability," Consumer Reports director of vehicle testing Jake Fisher said Thursday during a presentation to the Detroit Automotive Press Association.
Among electric SUVs, Fisher said Ford Motor Co's Mustang Mach-E "is the only one with above-average reliability.'"
It's interesting to me that till recently, Fords stock price was $5/6 - last time I checked, Ford still produced the most popular trucks in the world by a long shot?
- count 5y agoFord is a manufacturing company, and its stock is valued as such. Telsa is valued as a 'tech company', and so has magic unlimited upside unicorns attached to its stock. Rivian too.
- api 5y agoTesla is probably a bit overvalued but not by much. You are not factoring in how much money printing is happening. A turd with a stock ticker would have a market cap at least into the tens of millions. Ford with the F-150 Lightning and the Mach-E seems grossly undervalued and a huge buying opportunity. When rednecks find out what “instant full torque” means the Lightning will sell very well.
- dndjs 5y agoWow, what a gross generalization
- bumby 5y agoIs your claim that Ford should be valued more as a tech company now? I’d be curious if you could elaborate why
- FireBeyond 5y ago> Tesla is probably a bit overvalued but not by much. Tesla's current market cap only makes sense if they're producing more vehicles than every other US manufacturer, combined. That's a little more than "but not by much".
- invalidname 5y agoI think their value went too high... But I think of them as an energy company. They sell the cars and the "gas stations" and the "oil wells" and all the retail spots. They also do that without spend on advertising. Honestly, that's pretty impressive. Is it worth more than all other auto companies combined? Will it last? No idea.
- rsynnott 5y agoThat's even worse. I'm struggling to think of any large energy company that ever had a tech-ish P/E ratio. There was Enron, I suppose, but that was because it was a fraud, and wasn't _really_ an energy company anyway. As a general rule, the energy industry doesn't have huge margins.
- marticode 5y agoEnergy companies aren't worth much of anything, so even if you value Tesla as an energy company that still doesn't justify its valuation. Tesla is basically in all the high capital with low margin businesses (cars, electricity, solar, batteries).
- yeetaccount2 5y ago>When rednecks find out what “instant full torque” means the Lightning will sell very well. The grid in rural areas suck, in general. The reliability is terrible and there may not be enough capacity for everyone to start charging their vehicles when they get home from work. Rural people also tend to drive many more miles (and sometimes much more energy intensive miles), and range can be a serious challenge. If they’re hauling, range is significantly diminished, and it’s not like you can throw a few extra batteries in the bed for when you’re out of juice. With a diesel, you can throw a 100gallon transfer tank in the bed for under $1000 and make it clear across the lower 48 without stopping (though that’s not normally what they’re for). All that said, electric has promise. Longer vehicle lifetime and less maintenance is a huge plus.
- alphabettsy 5y agoYou’re right, but I’d wager that 70+% of truck buyers have never used any considerable amount of the payload capacity and don’t tow anything that a crossover SUV couldn’t tow.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- frosted-flakes 5y agoIf they're "rednecks", they almost certainly have. Dirtbikes if nothing else.
- minhazm 5y agoDirtbikes aren't exactly very heavy. Even a sedan with a small trailer can pull a few dirt bikes.
- minhazm 5y agoThe reality is that most of the people buying trucks do it because they like trucks and perhaps think it's more practical. It's not for actual work use. The same way most people buying SUV's aren't actually doing any off-roading or towing as well. > According to Edwards’ data, 75 percent of truck owners use their truck for towing one time a year or less (meaning, never). Nearly 70 percent of truck owners go off-road one time a year or less. And a full 35 percent of truck owners use their truck for hauling—putting something in the bed, its ostensible raison d’être—once a year or less. https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/you-dont-need-a-full-size-pickup-truck-you-need-a-cowboy-costume https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/you-dont-need-a-full-siz...
- RickJWagner 5y agoRednecks already understand the value of heavy torque. The automotive-minded ones are the ones pushing the boundaries all the time. Google up 'hold my beer'. You'll see.
- heavyset_go 5y agoTesla's valuation is influenced by hordes of retail investors who believe that any day now, their Tesla vehicles will receive an update that will turn them into FSD robotaxis that will generate income for them while they sleep. Ford doesn't have a funny meme man/CEO on Twitter making promises about their products to millions of retail investors that will never pan out. The dumb money just isn't there to drive up crazy valuations.
- sjg007 5y agoFord can absolutely become a tech company.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- 1123581321 5y agoI think the expectation, at least in relation to the issues CR is citing in this article, is that Tesla’s issues with body assembly are fixable and something the whole company is keen to improve, whereas Ford is not politically or organizationally able to embrace more fundamental changes (electric, OTA updates, moving away from dealers and maintenance revenue.) And of course the expectation is that automakers who don’t move quickly in those directions will suffer. Personally, I think Ford is able to make those changes and will be rescued if it doesn’t.
- jdhn 5y agoFord is definitely embracing some of those fundamental changes. They're building billion dollar factories, and have been highlighting OTA updates as a key part of the Mach-E experience.
- jseliger 5y ago"Electric vehicle drive systems, or powertrains, are not the main source of problems, Fisher said. The issues reported by owners are with other features." So they have some minor teething problems with body panels and such: I have a Model Y and overall it's been great, and my biggest complaint is highway noise. At speeds below perhaps 40 mph, it's far quieter than conventional cars. Preliminary data indicates the batteries last for a long time, and that long-term electric car durability is likely to be far higher than conventional cars. Overall, the article is a reminder of the problem with rankings: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2011/02/14/the-order-of-things https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2011/02/14/the-order-of-t...
- neom 5y agoI'm sure Tesla make amazing cars (I don't drive so no horse in this race) - but I still don't really understand why Tesla is a 1.3T company and Ford is a 77.4B company.
- verdverm 5y agoTesla is more than an auto company, they demonstrate faster innovation, they are more capital efficient and scale faster than was thought possible. Consider they are also selling solar, batteries, insurance, and likely in home robots, ride sharing, and energy trading down the line. They may also resell their tech and software down the line as well. There is also the general over valuation of the market at work, which is not evenly distributed between companies. Too much money without enough places to go.
- rsynnott 5y ago> Consider they are also selling solar Generally very low margin. > batteries Generally extremely low margin. > insurance Low margin > and likely in home robots, ride sharing, and energy trading down the line. Speculative.
- FireBeyond 5y agoA lot of that "innovation" is just "move fast and break things". Tesla has pushed out and then reverted how many FSD betas in response to issues? It's not surprising that so many people are disconcerted by the concept of being an unwilling beta tester for Tesla (by virtue of sharing the road), a company that clearly has disturbingly little acceptance testing for the software they're releasing.
- sodality2 5y agoA $1 stock with 100 million shares is valued the same as a $100 stock with 1 million shares. What matters more is market cap