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My daughter here in France had a bike accident two months ago which requires 14 stitches in her foot. We received 3 follow-up visits from nurses to clean and r

My daughter here in France had a bike accident two months ago which requires 14 stitches in her foot. We received 3 follow-up visits from nurses to clean and redress her wounds -- We pay about 100€ a month for supplemental private insurance on top of the public health insurance here -- Total cost for us? about 40€. We would have had to pay about 100€ more for the nurses' visits, but the mutuelle covered it. These are some of the reasons why my wife and I moved from the US to France -- she's French, I'm American; but I can't imagine returning to the nightmare complexity of billings and profiteering that the US system has become...

ryannevius 5y ago
Exorbitant health insurance premiums and healthcare bills was the primary reason our family of 3 (now 4) left the USA (we're all American citizens). It's such a relief knowing that we all have the option to go to the ER without emptying our bank accounts. My tax rate is higher here in Europe, but I'm actually saving significant money compared to the USA, when factoring in healthcare costs.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Broken_Hippo 5y ago
These are some of the reasons why my wife and I moved from the US to France -- she's French, I'm American; but I can't imagine returning to the nightmare complexity of billings and profiteering that the US system has become... I'm American and live in Norway. I feel the same. My out of pocket here is around $300, after which a lot of things simply become free. I don't have to consider whether or not I can afford to take care of something, and I have trouble explaining how much lower my stress levels are because of it. My taxes aren't higher than in the US: IN fact, they might be lower than taxes plus insurance premiums - and that doesn't even touch on the deductibles.
- pietrovismara 5y ago
  > My taxes aren't higher than in the US: IN fact, they might be lower than taxes plus insurance premiums - and that doesn't even touch on the deductibles. I start to think that some people aren't really concerned by the amount they are paying. What they deplore is the idea that some "freeloader" could benefit from their taxes. Even if the net result is that they're spending less.
  - toeget 5y ago
    >What they deplore is the idea that some "freeloader" could benefit from their taxes. But the ironic thing is that private insurance also works through "freeloading": you pay your premiums so that somebody else in the insurance pool can get treatment. It's just that some people prefer their intermediary be a private company which will also skim profits off top than their government.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
300bps 5y ago
I live in the US and my employer pays for my very excellent health insurance. For my family of 4 the most I will pay in any one year is $750. About 1/3 of people in the US have excellent healthcare and benefits. You don’t often hear from us.
- BowBun 5y ago
  Even with 'excellent insurance' (which I think I have as well), you still deal with deductibles, non-covered procedures, inability to choose and shop for prescriptions, limited choice of providers, HSAs, massively inflated prices... the list goes on. To the point of another commenter, just having to reason and think about the costs of necessary healthcare in one of the wealthiest countries in the world is a complete joke. Some people having OK experiences in the US still pales in comparison to the majority having good experiences in most other developed countries. Edit: Also having your health tied to your employer is also a joke. I've read enough stories about people getting screwed by employers who know they need the insurance and get away with abusing employees.
  - 300bps 5y ago
    If you’re dealing with an HSA that means you have a HDHP which I would not consider excellent insurance. There really are a third of us out there with really great plans. I’m getting downvoted to oblivion but it doesn’t change facts.
  - oefrha 5y ago
    Family members have experienced absurdly long waits despite “excellent insurance”. Sometimes the bill isn’t the problem, you simply don’t get treated.
- hsbauauvhabzb 5y ago
  Don’t forget your employer doesn’t ‘pay for your healthcare’, they have a budget set aside from your annual salary - if they didn’t have to pay as much for your healthcare they’d be able to pay you more (and capitalism suggests if a competing employer did and yours didn’t, the former would win long term).
lvl100 5y ago
1) you’re right that social programs in EU is great but there’s a hidden cost. It’s all derived from centuries of imperialism/colonialism and the wealth accrued as a direct result. You’re effectively reaping the benefit (and this will likely persist for centuries more). 2) similarly, most drug developments and research are done in the US. EU is effectively leeching off of the US policies. I’d say even Japan by itself contributes more to that end, per capita and in aggregate, than EU as a whole. 3) whenever people marvel at quality of life in countries such as Denmark, Sweden, etc, you have to ask yourself how they got there. None of that is free and other people are indirectly paying for those privileges. In most cases, it’s third world countries that Europeans pillaged for centuries. And in modern times, it’s on the backs of American taxpayers and soldiers who fought to save EU on multiple occasions from their own selfish and inept policies.
- melenaboija 5y ago
  - If US companies do research is because they make profit of it. They don’t give the drugs to Europeans - What the hell has to do imperialism with 2021 healthcare systems? - Healthcare is not a privilege
- herval 5y ago
  I regularly travel back to Brazil when I need to do something more involved that’s not an emergency, because the healthcare I get there is MUCH better than what I get in the US (I pay $800/y to keep a health insurance plan there). That’s one of the Third World Countries for you. I have friends who also live in the US, and went through chemo and surgeries there. I did LASIK myself. None of us paid a dollar on top of the annual insurance, for any of it.
netfortius 5y ago
On the topic of Mutuelle - I'm still to find a reason to pay one, at all. Maybe you could explain, but the hospitalization costs after 31 days seem to be fully covered by the social security (Ameli), if you ever get to be so unlucky to get there, so some doctor visits and an incident requiring hospitalization may be better addressed by "paying yourself" insurance, e.g. saving $4k/year, in case you ever need it. It would be the HSA of the US, with the healthcare higher quality and lower cost of France.

ryannevius 5y ago

Exorbitant health insurance premiums and healthcare bills was the primary reason our family of 3 (now 4) left the USA (we're all American citizens). It's such a relief knowing that we all have the option to go to the ER without emptying our bank accounts. My tax rate is higher here in Europe, but I'm actually saving significant money compared to the USA, when factoring in healthcare costs.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

Broken_Hippo 5y ago

These are some of the reasons why my wife and I moved from the US to France -- she's French, I'm American; but I can't imagine returning to the nightmare complexity of billings and profiteering that the US system has become... I'm American and live in Norway. I feel the same. My out of pocket here is around $300, after which a lot of things simply become free. I don't have to consider whether or not I can afford to take care of something, and I have trouble explaining how much lower my stress levels are because of it. My taxes aren't higher than in the US: IN fact, they might be lower than taxes plus insurance premiums - and that doesn't even touch on the deductibles.

pietrovismara 5y ago
> My taxes aren't higher than in the US: IN fact, they might be lower than taxes plus insurance premiums - and that doesn't even touch on the deductibles. I start to think that some people aren't really concerned by the amount they are paying. What they deplore is the idea that some "freeloader" could benefit from their taxes. Even if the net result is that they're spending less.
- toeget 5y ago
  >What they deplore is the idea that some "freeloader" could benefit from their taxes. But the ironic thing is that private insurance also works through "freeloading": you pay your premiums so that somebody else in the insurance pool can get treatment. It's just that some people prefer their intermediary be a private company which will also skim profits off top than their government.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

300bps 5y ago

I live in the US and my employer pays for my very excellent health insurance. For my family of 4 the most I will pay in any one year is $750. About 1/3 of people in the US have excellent healthcare and benefits. You don’t often hear from us.

BowBun 5y ago
Even with 'excellent insurance' (which I think I have as well), you still deal with deductibles, non-covered procedures, inability to choose and shop for prescriptions, limited choice of providers, HSAs, massively inflated prices... the list goes on. To the point of another commenter, just having to reason and think about the costs of necessary healthcare in one of the wealthiest countries in the world is a complete joke. Some people having OK experiences in the US still pales in comparison to the majority having good experiences in most other developed countries. Edit: Also having your health tied to your employer is also a joke. I've read enough stories about people getting screwed by employers who know they need the insurance and get away with abusing employees.
- 300bps 5y ago
  If you’re dealing with an HSA that means you have a HDHP which I would not consider excellent insurance. There really are a third of us out there with really great plans. I’m getting downvoted to oblivion but it doesn’t change facts.
- oefrha 5y ago
  Family members have experienced absurdly long waits despite “excellent insurance”. Sometimes the bill isn’t the problem, you simply don’t get treated.
hsbauauvhabzb 5y ago
Don’t forget your employer doesn’t ‘pay for your healthcare’, they have a budget set aside from your annual salary - if they didn’t have to pay as much for your healthcare they’d be able to pay you more (and capitalism suggests if a competing employer did and yours didn’t, the former would win long term).

lvl100 5y ago

1) you’re right that social programs in EU is great but there’s a hidden cost. It’s all derived from centuries of imperialism/colonialism and the wealth accrued as a direct result. You’re effectively reaping the benefit (and this will likely persist for centuries more). 2) similarly, most drug developments and research are done in the US. EU is effectively leeching off of the US policies. I’d say even Japan by itself contributes more to that end, per capita and in aggregate, than EU as a whole. 3) whenever people marvel at quality of life in countries such as Denmark, Sweden, etc, you have to ask yourself how they got there. None of that is free and other people are indirectly paying for those privileges. In most cases, it’s third world countries that Europeans pillaged for centuries. And in modern times, it’s on the backs of American taxpayers and soldiers who fought to save EU on multiple occasions from their own selfish and inept policies.

melenaboija 5y ago
- If US companies do research is because they make profit of it. They don’t give the drugs to Europeans - What the hell has to do imperialism with 2021 healthcare systems? - Healthcare is not a privilege
herval 5y ago
I regularly travel back to Brazil when I need to do something more involved that’s not an emergency, because the healthcare I get there is MUCH better than what I get in the US (I pay $800/y to keep a health insurance plan there). That’s one of the Third World Countries for you. I have friends who also live in the US, and went through chemo and surgeries there. I did LASIK myself. None of us paid a dollar on top of the annual insurance, for any of it.

netfortius 5y ago

On the topic of Mutuelle - I'm still to find a reason to pay one, at all. Maybe you could explain, but the hospitalization costs after 31 days seem to be fully covered by the social security (Ameli), if you ever get to be so unlucky to get there, so some doctor visits and an incident requiring hospitalization may be better addressed by "paying yourself" insurance, e.g. saving $4k/year, in case you ever need it. It would be the HSA of the US, with the healthcare higher quality and lower cost of France.