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A Xiaomi phone might’ve shipped with a censorship list in Europe
- coldtea 5y agoSo, just like Apple, Facebook, and Twitter regularly policing their platforms and stop apps, websites, etc., according to their national interests and political/cultural fashions? "It's ok when we do it" - and when you point it out, ofcourse "that's whatabboutism" (plus, "our targets deserve it").
- shrewduser 5y agoI'm not sure you would find censorship of terms like “Democratic Movement” and “Long live Taiwan’s independence.” on Other platforms. not sure if you're intentionally comparing things like child porn to democracy as equally deserving of censorship but that's how i read it.
- volgo 5y agoI'm not sure you would find censorship of terms like "Uighur are not in camps" on Twitter and Facebook. Because as per US foreign policy, "denying" those claims is not allowed
- convery 5y agoKind of scary how whenever someone comments on censorship a lot of peoples minds immediately go to CP.. Like, out of the millions of things one could somewhat legitimately censor, it's always CP..
- usui 5y agoW-What? Are you suggesting that an instrument for censorship could be used for anything other than its stated purpose?! The West has always been the place for free speech and tolerance!
- shadowgovt 5y agoCP is the exception that proves the rule in the concept of liberal communication. ... In the old definition of "proves" as in "tests," because any process that greenlights CP is wanting. So it's the one you go to as a litmus test for whether or not the question of censorship vs. open speech on the table is worth spending energy discoursing on.
- fsckboy 5y ago> Kind of scary how ... it's always CP kind of hilarious given the present context that where I come from, CP means Communist Party
- carrolldunham 5y agoTwitch etc have precisely such lists of words. Democratic movement is an idea that threatens the Chinese power structure - things that you probably don't like are a threat the American power structure. Just because you also personally find them kooky or immoral is irrelevant
- coldtea 5y ago>I'm not sure you would find censorship of terms like “Democratic Movement” and “Long live Taiwan’s independence.” on Other platforms. Yeah, on US tech platforms you can promote Taiwan's independence and criticize China's national interests, I'll give you that! It's like the old joke, where the American says that he's free-er as he can go to Times Square with a bullhorn megaphone and openly criticize the US Predident. To which the USSR guy counters that he's equally free, as he is also perfectly allowed to go to the Red Square and openly criticize the US Predident. >not sure if you're intentionally comparing things like child porn to democracy as equally deserving of censorship but that's how i read it. I wrote censoring based on "national interests" (not to mention petty political partisan censorship), but you took it that I was complaining about them censoring "child pornography". "Think of the children", much? I don't think that censoring people from Snowden and wiki-leaks (banned on several instances, which corporations even disabling their way to accept donations), to people writing on the wrong side of the political and being banned for "fake news" (while the "legit" sources touted BS like the Steele Dossier, that now, years after it doesn't matter anymore, do a 180-turn on), amounts to "child porn".
- colordrops 5y agoPeople get content deleted on American platforms for lots of content that is no where near child porn in obvious reprehensibility.
- cassonmars 5y agoThere’s a huge difference between a private company banning someone from their platform and a government that has a secret police which takes you away at night to a labor camp because you didn’t simp for the People’s party.
- mysecretaccount 5y agoThis article isn't about labor camps or the CCP's secret police. If you look at the censorship itself, the gap is much more narrow.
- cassonmars 5y agoThat’s not the point. OP tried to draw a comparison that private enterprises in the US do the same thing — they do not. The false equivalence ends at the point where the CCP actively controls what these companies do in terms of enforcement, and the mass surveillance apparatus is intrinsically linked.
- mysecretaccount 5y ago> That’s not the point. OP tried to draw a comparison that private enterprises in the US do the same thing — they do not. FB/GOOG absolutely do. You may trust the USG or the companies it pressures into this domain of behavior more than the CCP/Xiaomi (or may not - it is not relevant to this point) but the comparison is there.
- colordrops 5y agoIt's amazing that people still have their heads in the sand about this when evidence to the contrary comes out regularly, e.g. PRISM, CIA coordination with the LA Times and New York Times, and Biden's press secretary Psaki directly saying they work with social media companies to determine censorship policies.
- cassonmars 5y agoPlease cite a source where discussing American historical atrocities on social media gets you whisked away by the secret police.
- rudian 5y agoYou’re an idiot or a spy if you think Facebook’s blocking is in anyway similar to China’s censorship. Facebook does not block anything like “Winnie the Pooh” and you don’t risk disappearing by posting on Facebook.
- ycombigator 5y agoHope you don't play tennis. Could end badly for you.
- mdoms 5y agoNow nothing. No one who gives even one single solitary fuck about Chinese influence was buying Xiaomi phones. These phones are for the overwhelmingly dominant portion of the market that just does not care.
- shadowgovt 5y ago> Now what? Buy a different phone? Consumers in the European marketplaces have options.
- cute_boi 5y agoThere is a reason why people prefer Xiaomi over other brands. What I can remember is pricing, ability to unlock without losing warranty, quality of the hardware. A different phone like Samsung has problems like warranty being void if flashes, bad hardware, riddled with advertisements as you can't use your own firmware because of previous reasons. In fact, many people in my country choose Xiaomi phones over any brand. Also, Xiaomi provides a better ecosystem like distributions of ROM, flashing software officially. Other phones like one plus, iPhone has a high price compared to Xiaomi. The unfortunate fact is the competitor of Xiaomi phone is another Chinese branded phone and
- npteljes 5y agoAdhering to principles naturally comes with sacrifice.
- tdrdt 5y agoExactly this. You always have a choice. You can even buy a dumbphone. If you still buy Xiaomi knowing they spy on you, you just don't care. And that is also a choice. People should vote with their wallet. This also means you can't always get what you want.
- DocTomoe 5y agoDumbphones become less of an option lately. The vaccination certificate is on my phone. So are the apps that are mandatory to access my banking. Ao is Authy. Sure, I could carry around a printed-out QR code (how long will that one last?) or switch banks and forget about online banking, and stop using 2FA, just so I can avoid having a smartphone, but eventually, we will see a time when those are no longer options.
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- iflp 5y agohttps://www.xda-developers.com/xiaomi-secret-blacklist-explained/amp/ https://www.xda-developers.com/xiaomi-secret-blacklist-expla... > On analysis of the file, I found that the vast majority of the records are actually related to sex, porn, and other smartphone brands. There are mentions of Tibet, Hong Kong, and other religious groups, however, mentions of the CCP and “China” are also included, too > I think it’s pretty clear that the filter is specifically used for filtering advertisements
- greatjack613 5y agoXDA is owned and operated by a company with many established ties to the CCP, just see all the chinese phones and huawei stuff that they constantly advertise and answer up for. don't fall for chinese propaganda.
- luma 5y agoThe article in the OP covers this directly. A thousand entries with normal advertisement-filter-sounding terms were added, and then everything removed. I feel compelled to point out that you would know this had you read the article.
- pphysch 5y agoThis is false. The ad keyword blocklist in the original report had tons of unassuming keywords. The authors cherry-picked a few to support the incredibly boring "China bad" narrative that was probably their goal. That fell flat, so now there's a new rumor that the See See Pee got caught red-handed and disguised their Totally Real Evil Scary Censoring Algorithm Which Doesn't Work with unassuming keywords. Mental gymnastics.
- cookiengineer 5y ago> This is false. The ad keyword blocklist in the original report had tons of unassuming keywords. There is no statistical good/bad measurement if you, as a company, decide to block terminology of political nature. They blocked pro-Taiwan ads just as they blocked outdated Xiaomi ads. But this doesn't even out the odds anyhow. As long as pro Taiwan ads are blocked, it's effectively being used as a censorship mechanism, and it's nothing else. Doesn't matter if you sell it as an adblocker. Doesn't matter if you sell it as a filtering system for "security" reasons. Either block all ads and do the right thing, or block no ads at all. But not this. The point is that they realized that advertisements are used to organize democratic or revolutionary movements and they blocked it. And that is the censorship others are complaining about.
- busymom0 5y agoWasn’t this reported a few months ago? There were a few other brands in it too.
- xaduha 5y agoReally hope at least HMD/Nokia keeps Android One alive, did they push everyone else out of that market or what? Are phones with bundled crap that much cheaper for comparable specs? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_One https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_One
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- robocat 5y agoThere are very few choices for a cheapish phone that gets security updates and isn't drowning in crapware and "telemetry". It looks like Nokia is the last brand releasing Android One mobiles: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_One#2021 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_One#2021 Currently I am using a Nokia 3.4 and it has been great value IMHO.
- herbst 5y agoI realize this doesn't fit the narrative in here. But Xiaomi actually allows you to remove any app without root via USB. You kinda have full control about your apps at least, something that is already luxury these days
- LargoLasskhyfv 5y agoDo they stay removed, or do you have to remove them again after some update?
- herbst 5y agoSo far they nothing reappeared that I have noticed. At least not the obvious ones, may a service one reappeared.
- paoblo 5y agoNow what? When no one has an answer to a complex problem, quietly get out of the room and work on something simple. That produces the best outcome. Cuz you know 2 things are true - there are problems the chimp troupe cant solve And there are people in the room who will never admit it.
- qwertyuiop_ 5y agoEurope is too fragmented to come up with a response to totalitarian CCP regime. Heck even in the USA the CCP has successfully drafted think tanks, Hollywood, NBA players [0] to tow their line and quell resistance to Tibet, Taiwan, Uygher atrocities etc. [0] https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/582244-enes-kanter-blasts-lebron-james-over-china-money-over-morals https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/582244-ene... [
- perryizgr8 5y agoXiaomi is a private company. They can censor whatever they like. If you don't like it you can create your own multi-billion dollar phone company and spend tens of billions on R&D to manufacture your own cutting-edge flagship phone.
- na85 5y ago>They can censor whatever they like. Only because the laws are too permissive in this particular regard.
- throwaway2077 5y agoWhy should China give a damn about European laws?
- lokar 5y agoHuman rights are universal
- agul29 5y ago[flagged]
- gopher_space 5y agoAnd I can read all about that in a book without getting my organs harvested.
- agul29 5y agoYeah, instead you will get blown up to pieces by Howitzers.
- throwaway2077 5y agofreedom of speech is not considered a human right in Europe though
- ycombigator 5y agoThe west is, to a large degree, institutionally captured. Consumer boycott is the only solution.
- agul29 5y agoThe West is instutionally captured by established power structures whose financial and political profit is dependant on a new Cold War, in which the bulk of the Red Scare-ish craziness is realized as yellow perilist propaganda.
- redis_mlc 5y agoThe behavior of the CCP is well-documented, and the West has been infiltrated by their influence. The CCP has "border disputes" with every single one of their neighbors. Stop being a useful idiot. Here's the current international human rights drama with the CCP: https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/18/china/wta-ceo-peng-shuai-steve-simon-intl-hnk/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/18/china/wta-ceo-peng-shuai-stev... This scientist is getting PR for a faulty analysis: https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/18/health/covid-origins-market-theory/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/18/health/covid-origins-market-t... It's faulty because: - the CCP has acknowledged a man died on Dec. 1 from corona - participants at the Military Games said Wuhan had "empty streets" a couple months earlier. - Wuhan hospital parking lots were full according to satellite images around the time of the Military Games. - WIV had areas evacuated according to cell tower traffic and a PLA general took control before Dec. 1
- stickfigure 5y agoOn the other hand, watching western actors grovel in public because they had the temerity to call Taiwan a nation makes me inclined to think that there's something actually perilous here.
- sofixa 5y agoBut Taiwan isn't an independent country. Nobody of note recognises it as such, and heck, they barely claim to be one! It's a vastly complex subject with tons of history, you can't just reduce it to "Taiwan should be called a nation". (they should ideally become an independent nation, but that's besides the point)
- shimonabi 5y agoI have this exact model. I can confirm that the censorship list is not active. I have tried to send SMS messages with censored words and there was no problem. Recently I had a problem that the phone nagged me about "activating" the 2nd SIM card at boot if the "Find my device" Xiaomi functionality was enabled. It seems to be a part of the tracking functionality if my phone gets lost. The "activation" of the SIM card failed every time, but it sent a SMS to a UK number and billed me about 0,17€ for it. I only figured it out when I saw my phone bill. I had an earlier Xiaomi phone and I recorded all my phone calls on it. The creepy thing is that I didn't know that Xiaomi was sycing all my files with Xiaomi Cloud.
- fsckboy 5y ago> the censorship list is not active. I have tried to send SMS messages with censored words and there was no problem your testing is not thorough, there are many other things the "censorship list" could be used for, including not censoring at all, rather "forward this user's internet searches to china", and the things it does could be turned on and off based on other parameters
- sol_invictus 5y agoYour test means nothing. The problem here is the potent risk, not the current state of the filter. Exactly the same scenario as with the Huawei 5G products. It is a major risk building your entire "smart" infrastructure with a line of products that could at some unspecified future date start clamping down on you via remote software updates, just because you insulted the dear leader or did something else to anger the regime. Did we not see this already with H&M stores in China? I can't believe there are still (smart) people here on HN who pretend like there's no danger involved.
- atoav 5y agoI recall the times when this was being discussed and from an European perspective it seemed curious that the US tech crowd was so eager to ban Huawei products — especially after there being multiple cases of back-/bugdoors in the gear of american vendors, while at that point there was none with Huawei gear that we knew of. I don't trust chinese gear. But I also don't trust the gear built in a nation where the patriot act is active. The answer is to use a propper vendor mix and to think carefully what is used where.
- Shadonototra 5y agoi'm getting tired of "China = Bad, Western = Good" propaganda when it's Microsoft, Apple, or Google, it's fine.. we can be enslaved
- Barrin92 5y agoI honestly can't be the only person who doesn't care about a non-active filter list that was probably left over by some dev who put it in there for Chinese users. I feel like at this point we're just scraping the bottom of the barrel for the daily dose of anti-Chinese content
- pixelpanic360 5y agoapparently you don't know how evil is CCP. I don't blame your ignorance.
- ooer 5y agoAnd it's fine for Chinese people to get their speech censored?
- baka367 5y agoTo be fair that is none of our business. Every government decided these things by themselves.
- 2Gkashmiri 5y agoCool. So by your logic, USA should not impose its view of "modern" "democracy" to other countries. Libya, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, or even Iran. Why does USA care if Iran assaults its citizens for whatever reason?
- tpxl 5y agoNo, it should not. The USA imposing "democracy" by dropping bombs on civilians is part of the reason the region is unstable.
- bronzeage 5y agoI would love it if what the US imposed was an actual democracy. What the US imposed in practice was the shah coup in Iran, which was quite democratic beforehand, which in turn led to the Islamic revolution. The US doesn't impose democracies, the US just installs its own corrupted dictators. Afghanistan was also just installed corrupted dictators.
- nashashmi 5y agoSounds like soon enough China will export this policy on all Chinese made products all over the world. As a means of creating peace. What’s to stop them from doing this?
- blackoil 5y agoIs it by any means surprising? We know every company operating in China comply with the govt. censorship. Some of which is not consistent with our principle of human rights. Do we have any US/European company operating in China which isn't compliant with Chinese laws? Apart from China, Twitter/FB follow Indian laws in India, blocking users critical of Indian govt. which they wouldn't remove from Global site.