17 ms·

Depression is more than low mood, it’s a change of consciousness

207 points by kvee 5y ago

holonomically 5y ago
> Depressed people often say it involves a fundamental shift, like entering a different ‘world’ – a world detached from ordinary reality and other people. Depression seems to be a more totalising kind of experience than some others. Perhaps it is even a distinct state of consciousness, and can, in turn, reveal something about the nature of consciousness itself. If depression wasn't seen with a negative valence then its prevalence in contemporary society would be much more obvious. Most people, at least the ones that can't afford to live close to green spaces, are far removed from nature and surrounded by mostly artificial constructions. There is research that indicates this is generally not good for mental health and is probably a causal factor for the rise in mental illnesses and associated over-medication in dealing with low moods and anxiety. [1] The other issue is the following: > Seeing depression along with other altered global states of consciousness is a theoretical rather than a clinical shift – but it could make a difference to how we treat depression further along the line. In particular, the idea can shed light on the success of psychedelic psychiatry, a recent and growing research field, which looks to treat various mental disorders with psychedelics such as ketamine, mescaline and psilocybin (the active ingredient in magic mushrooms). It's great we can give people drugs to reduce their suffering but this doesn't address the systemic and environmental issues that force people to seek the medication in the first place. There is a clear signal that even though the human built environment has reduced much physical suffering it has nonetheless also had several unintended consequences like increased incidence of various psychopathologies. 1: https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/145305/green-space-is-good-for-mental-health https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/145305/green-space-...
amriksohata 5y ago
In Ayurveda (comes from hindu sages, invented yoga etc) they say that some forms of depression come from the gut brain axis. THere are 3 types of body type and eating the wrong foods for each body type can make your mind inbalanced. Whilst in comparision western nutrionists/dieticians say have a balanced diet, Ayurveda says eat foods depending on your body type its not as simple as calories, protein, carbs. It depends on the food itself.
- jinder 5y ago
  I think the reality is closer to different dysbiotic states can cause depression. Depending on the the specific dysbiosis, the interventions will be different.
  - mandmandam 5y ago
    .. And would you categorise those different dysbiotic states into ... types?
    - jinder 5y ago
      I'm sure you could - but if you went about it scientifically there would easily be thousands (not just the 3 in Ayurveda). That being said, I do think Ayurveda is mostly about manipulating the microbiome, and I think there are probably real nuggets of truth in its approaches. For example the use of Triphala to improve motility will help in numerous dysbiotic states.
- matbatt38 5y ago
  Well I don't think there's any evidence for that to be true, actually.
  - xyzzy123 5y ago
    Agree (in terms of the kind of formal evidence I imagine you would accept). However it doesn't need to be "true" in any objective sense, to provide relief or improve wellbeing. Is an interesting thought, would love to see clinical trials of various spiritual and traditional medicine practices. The combo of say, CBT and (dubiously effective) antidepressants doesn't seem wildly different, except traditional practices are often better "socially integrated" and have less stigma.
    - mapcars 5y ago
      Someone should conduct those researches, the thing is people who do it and who benefit from it they don't need any proof, any acceptance from others or anything like that.
jokoon 5y ago
> You don't think in depression that you've put on a gray veil and are seeing the world through the haze of a bad mood. You think that the veil has been taken away, the veil of happiness, and that now you're seeing truly. > Andrew Solomon
- joeberon 5y ago
  I saw a piece of research saying that it is true, that depressed people see outcomes more realistically, while non-depressed people are in a state of constant self-delusion where they convince themselves things are better than they are
  - jiggawatts 5y ago
    The corollary is that most people confuse realism and rational thinking for pessimism. People that don't know me will initially assume that I'm the negative one on the team. A year later I'm the one dragging the others across the finish line, telling them that it's not that bad, even though my predictions did come true, right on schedule. I was just being accurate, and a successful outcome despite predicted failures along the way is a pretty good result, even if it seemed negative to naively a optimistic person. We foresaw the traps, stumbled, and yet we overcame! What's not positive about that?
    - orzig 5y ago
      As someone who fills a similar role on my team, I've learned to be careful about my tone and to pick my battles (and I'm still far from perfect). Of course, bottling up the frustration of knowing about the oncoming train wreck is its own challenge, which I'd certainly appreciate ideas on.
  - mrblampo 5y ago
    I think I saw the same research, but that was more about seeing how bad things are going globally, right? Bet that trend breaks down when it comes to evaluating the quality of your own life.
  - 5y ago
llamataboot 5y ago
There are many paths into depression, and many paths out of it. But as someone that once fell into a decade+ of depression and could not get out, I think that one key is to try to get back on top of it quickly. It's a bit like getting further and further out of shape that way, because of the changes of thought patterns and self-image and socialization patterns etc - the further you go the more the very things you need to get out are being undercut. (And yet, just like that example, you can always start where you are at, and sometimes even a bit of change can be more dramatic and exhilarating than you think it would be - perhaps walking up the stairs without getting winded feels like a huge victory, if you aren't focused on how long it will be until you run that marathon) In my own experience, and in working with people with severe depression, I have found two things to be almost universal. One is that the pathway out involves better noticing of small shifts in consciousness in the present moment - depression is a flatland, yet even within it there are small tiny windows of light that can be noticed and built on. The other is that, and this especially applies to people that live inside their head, are very smart, very analytical, etc...the body itself provides a pathway out. Without even getting into somatic psychology, the act of doing things where one is experiencing felt sensation in the body provides a ground for consciousness outside of the grey hazy thought world.
- nextaccountic 5y ago
  > But as someone that once fell into a decade+ of depression and could not get out, I think that one key is to try to get back on top of it quickly. Hi, I'm not a native speaker and Google-fu didn't help with this, so.. what do you mean by "get back on top of it"? What actions does it entails?
  - sergiosgc 5y ago
    Not a native speaker either, so take this with a grain of salt. I read it as acting promptly, staying ahead of the problem, do not postpone remedial action.
  - wombatmobile 5y ago
    "get back on top of it" is a symbolic form of speech. Picture two wrestlers. The one on top is in control. The one on the bottom is powerless, subjugated.
lewispollard 5y ago
Like most articles about "consciousness", they're going to have to define consciousness more precisely. > Neuroscientists and philosophers of consciousness have recently coined a new term – the global state of consciousness – to describe the structural properties of experience that varies between ordinary wakefulness, dreaming, the psychedelic state and the minimally conscious state. These states are called ‘global’ because the whole of conscious experience is altered, not just a particular element. Well, which is it; consciousness that's altered, or conscious experience? It would seem that a change in conscious experience doesn't necessarily make any difference to consciousness itself - i.e. consciousness isn't altered by the experiences and sensations it's observing and conscious of, it's a buffer in which sensations are known and experienced. As someone who previously wrestled with depression, dabbled in psychedelics, and has a long-term insight meditation practice, it doesn't matter whether I was severely depressed or tripping balls, my consciousness of those experiences remained the same. That's actually one of the insights that psychedelics quickly revealed. Experience comes and goes, and consciousness itself doesn't seem to be coloured by it. If the headline said that "depression is a change in mental states and perceptions", well that's obvious, we've known that for probably centuries. Throw the "consciousness" buzzword in and ooh, it's exciting now! But kind of meaningless imo. I don't really see how the article differentiates between "consciousness" and "mental states and perceptions".
- mapcars 5y ago
  Here is a definition of consciousness by world-renown Indian yogi, goes quite a bit deeper than what science can understand: https://youtu.be/w7irEcQHChw?t=410 https://youtu.be/w7irEcQHChw?t=410
antihero 5y ago
I like the global state of mind idea, however, I feel that it isn't purely due to this state - I think the depressive state is something that comes around due to lots of other factors such as your life, your health, your physical brain composition. So it's almost like, if your environment and health are bad your consciousness will be more "magnetised" towards a global depressive state, and whilst psychedelics may help awaken you, you'll be more likely to slip back into it in time without fixing other stuff. Psychedelics may be a temporary cure to crushing hopelessness, a kick in the mental butt, but for a one that is long lasting you have to have things to be genuinely hopeful about. Depression I think is a complex, multi-dimensional issue that has to be solved by giving yourself the best chance across the board - sorting out health, sorting out meaning and purpose, sorting out social and support networks, and once those things are in place, taking your shot at it on a brain chemistry and consciousness-altering level with something like psiloscibin etc.
- 93po 5y ago
  Psychedelics can also be harmful for mental health. They tend to create flexibility in terms of thinking about things in new ways - and that can include self harm as well. As in, making it seem easier or more enticing or less of a big deal to end one's life.
callesgg 5y ago
Meh, people playing with words. If you have taken psychedelics you know what a shift in consciousness feels like. Depression does not feel like that.
- Synaesthesia 5y ago
  I feel like my depression can change the way I interact with and percieve everything.
- DocTomoe 5y ago
  "State of consciousness" is a technical term that describes a mode of your experience. Sleep is a state of consciousness. That trance-like hyperfocussed flow experience is a state of consciousness. You can induce a state of consciousness by meditation. Depression may just be a state of consciousness. States of consciousness can usually be measured and distinguished from each other with standard brain-scanning methods. Not all shift in these states need to be as flashy as a LSD trip. In fact, very few are.
- Levitz 5y ago
  I have taken psychedelics and frankly I'd say it does feel like that, just in a non-enjoyable, "bad" way. One makes you notice tiny details and the beauty in them, the other paints everything as grey and uninteresting, one makes you thing about the greater scope of things, the other barely lets you think much outside your circumstance. I really think it does translate.
  - callesgg 5y ago
    Depression for me is mostly being disengaged, not noticing anything, not wanting to think about anything, wanting to sleep 16 hours a day, feeling only low or neutral valence thoughts.
speedcoder 5y ago
Perhaps depression is a choice, and you can brainswitch out of it: http://depressionisachoice.com http://depressionisachoice.com .
- imtringued 5y ago
  If it's a choice then it's like choosing to smoke. Once you've done it enough you'll notice that it's hard to quit.
  - speedcoder 5y ago
    Yes. Some choices are hard. Still, are they choices?
alexanderthe- 5y ago
Given that everything we experience in this life is through our consciousness, equating depression to a shift in consciousness isn't heavy lifting. This is an association where I would like to see some hard science backing the link between our conscious experience and the underlying function of our wetware, the brain. As far as subjective experience, I've witnessed myself slowly slip into a depression toward the end of a relationship I knew wasn't going to pan out. I couldn't put my finger on it at the time, but I slowly remembered sex becoming less enjoyable with my ex, the pull of my hobbies less exciting and rewarding, my global outlook on life and the vibrancy of my future becoming more dim and... depressing. This was anhedonia, the inability to feel pleasure. I felt like I was wading through a dark cloud. The ability to smile organically through enjoyable interactions and activities all but disappeared, or at the very least, felt forced and somewhat "empty", like I was a poor actor. I had to give a best man's speech around this time and was shocked to hear how monotone my voice had been while delivering the speech. Throughout all of this, I more or less kept the same routines. I was spending more time alone but still managed to schedule time with friends, I kept working out, and never slipped into a dark hole.. but I'm not ashamed to say I wasn't able to solve it alone, in fact the shift was so subtle that by the time I had become aware of what conscious state had become, I was dismayed to find that I was already doing what most people recommend to get out of a depression - stay active, spend time with friends and family, spend time in nature, exercise, etc. Which leads me to what ended up working... therapy. I can't say I've had any major trauma's in my life aside from losing my father as a teenager, but talking over my life with a therapist helped me come across some events that triggered me emotionally to revisit, and over several weeks I started to feel the cloud of anhedonia lifting and started to enjoy life as it appeared to me again. The major conclusion being the functioning of the subconscious mind on our conscious experience plays more of a role than I expected. YMMV, but if you are experiencing depression, consider therapy.. this is coming from someone who was already experienced in the trendiest news grabbing headlines for treating depression before I realized I had become depressed, including meditation and psychedelics.
Aqwis 5y ago
While I don't think anything in the linked article is wrong per se, it's a very brief look at a complicated and interesting topic. I'm slowly working my way through Ratcliffe's Experiences of Depression (mentioned in the article), which is basically "the" volume on this topic. It's a highly technical book (surprisingly so given the wide variety of people I've seen talking about it), so be prepared for a lot of psych jargon, but it's rewarding if you want to take a deeper dive into how depression feels than you get through reading the dry definitions in the DSM and similar resources. It probably helps with comprehension to have had depressive experiences yourself and possibly even more to have experienced a wide variety of conscious states (through psychotropic medication, psychedelics, other mental illnesses, shocking life experiences or otherwise). I'd say the book is so important that I wish the author would write a book on the same topic but in simpler language (popsci-esque, except less superficial than the typical popsci book) that could be read by a wider audience than Experiences of Depression. I think a lot of people have severe difficulties understanding depressed friends or family because the nuances of the experience of a depressed person are so difficult to convey in words. Such a book could help bridge the gap.
grasshopperpurp 5y ago
There's a new musician, Reggie, who is remarkably talented and deals with mental health in his music. Most of his five songs come from the perspective of overcoming his issues/environment/demons, but I Don't Want to Feel No More is similar in theme to Heroin by the Velvet Underground. Anyway, his attention to detail - lyrically and musically - makes for very relatable, enjoyable experiences, and if you're going through it, I could def see it helping. I'm not going through it; I just love it. https://youtu.be/JukqFyMo8YE https://youtu.be/JukqFyMo8YE https://youtu.be/qAqIQScmL0Q https://youtu.be/qAqIQScmL0Q
kklisura 5y ago
There's a great video from a professor at Stanford, Robert Sapolsky, about depression, where he dives into the biological and psychological aspect of depression. [1] > If I had to define major depression in one sentence, I would say, it’s a lot biochemical disorder with a genetic component, and early experience influences, where somebody can’t appreciate sunsets. And that’s what this disease is about. [1] (2009, youtube) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOAgplgTxfc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOAgplgTxfc
- podgaj 5y ago
  We have come a long way since 2009: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1089860320301993 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S10898... What Sapolsky was talking about was correct, but the fundamental driver seems to be oxidative stress imbalance. And the genetics part might be highly associated with the mitochondria: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-021-01268-x https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-021-01268-x
tartoran 5y ago
Yes but, isn’t mood also a shift in consciousness as well?
w_t_payne 5y ago
My experience suggests to me that there is a strong perceptual component to depression: It is a sort of blinkering of the internal eye. The world does not literally become black and white, but nothing in the world is capable of engaging the mind enough to elicit even the briefest saccade and fixation upon it. Attention must be forced upon objects in the world, laboriously and painfully, and the entire perceptual experience is dull and muted, as if the internal emotional pain has become so overwhelming that it has cast a grey fog over the landscape. The symptoms are profoundly physical; physiological in nature. It is without doubt a disease of the physical body; albeit one which often seems driven by a fractured and injured psyche throwing out discordant, disordered and malign thoughts. Recovery from depression feels like waking up. The blinkers withdraw, and the world expands, becoming larger, richer and more engaging. The brilliant yellow of a flower is quantitatively still the same, yet draws the eye and becomes an occasion for delight whereas before there would have been nothing. This experience makes the most sense for me when I consider perception as an active process. Information does not simply fall into the eyes to be passively consumed. Our perceptual experience is a dynamic thing - a continual act of the imagination, only just held in check by our senses. Depression distorts and undermines that part of our imagination which we use to see the world.
podgaj 5y ago
NOTE: I have Schizoaffective Bipolar Disorder, Aspergers, hospitalized five times, with three suicide attempts. This will sound ranty because, uhm, I am in a different state of consciousness. I also consider myself a Shaman by heritage, not by choice, my mother's lineage comes from the Sami people. I hate these articles. Why? Because first, they make money off of my lived experience while I am forced to live in a van on disability. There should be a law that if you write about a group of suffering people a portion of the profit should go to the group you are writing about. But these articles do nothing to help people like me. And please do not tell me they increase sympathy because my situation has only gotten worse over the last 15 years, before getting better on my own accord, and I have read countless of these articles. What would help these other lost shaman is housing to lower our stress so we do not have to keep taking trips into these other consciousnesses that no one cares about. But oh well. Second, why just talk about depression? Why not mania, or being drunk, on ecstasy, drinking coffee, or being on meth? They all change your consciousness. What world or realm you perceive is based on what genetics, diet, pollution, stress, drugs, etc to which you are exposed. But for some reason everyone loves depression, it is the most romantic and safest of the mood disorders. Third, the reason mushrooms work is the same reason prozac, lamictal, or lithium work. It changes the neuro-chemistry of the brain. Psilocybin is an extremely potent serotonin 2a (HTR2A) receptor agonist. It has nothing to do with your experience from the trip, that is all just a romanticized notion lefty over from the 60s. The "trip" is just a side effect. These same receptors casue pain disorders and the are researching Psilocybin for pain as well. When I was younger I tripped without using mushrooms, certainly more when I was manic. Why? Genetics. I know, I have my genetics, it's all there. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19855357/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19855357/ Fourth, this is not a revelation to anyone who has spent time with the disorder and dabbled in any eastern religion. The consciousness we share is based on a delicate balance of a somewhat similar functioning brains. Even slight deviations of that and our consciousness is split from crowd, even from your closest partner. When I became as serious mediator under the Theravada branch of Buddhism it was very easy for me to trip while meditating. The studies that have been done on mediators found they had an increase amount of the metabolites of serotonin. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4769029/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4769029/ That is not a coincidence! Finally, the people who described depression were right on. Our change unconsciousness allows us to see the different worlds that lay outside the realm of the common consciousness. So maybe instead of making us poor and saying we have a disorder, how about return us to our correct place in the social structure as spiritual seers and shaman. Instead of being scared of us or tryingt o fix us, listen to the stories we have to tell about what surrounds all of you but none of you can see. There is plenty to be depressed about that you all do not see becasue of all the coffee and alcohol. As a shaman, I will tell you, Psilocybin is not the answer for people with depression. The answer for depression would entail changing the entire socio-economic structure. All Psilocybin will do is MAYBE help you see that truth, but usually it is just a vacation from your current consciousness. The answer to depression is welcoming it and listening to it. (Yes, this is hard because our culture does not care if you have a change in consciousness. You will lose you job and become homeless. But do you think it is a coincidence that Buddha, Jesus, and St. Francis all talked about being homeless?) I no longer take medications to control my changes in consciousness (Well, sometimes klonopin) and I mostly welcome my homelessness. But now I just let these changes happen, they tell me stories of what I need to do, what to fix in my life, and what should be fixed in others lives. Blessed be the seers.
iandanforth 5y ago
Lot of behavioral claptrap in the comments here. Depression is a disorder of neurochemistry. It has physical causes. Yes our current toolset to fix the malfunctioning system is limited but we are not limited to shaking the case. Behavioral interventions are external, indirect, poorly targeted and broad spectrum. Really turn-it-off-and-turn-it-back-on-again thinking. Instead of bringing in further poorly defined ideas like consciousness, let's keep the conversation focused on 1. Direct physical interventions and their methods of action and 2. The known limitations of the above. E.g. If the below effect of psilocybin holds up the question is why?! It too is poorly targeted and broad spectrum. Is this down regulating a dopamine reuptake pathway, or is it upregulating some countervailing transmitter? https://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddisalvo/2017/10/23/magic-mushrooms-show-promise-as-depression-remedy-by-resetting-the-brain/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddisalvo/2017/10/23/magic-m...
- blackbrokkoli 5y ago
  How do you come to these conclusions? If I am not unaware of some brand new research, the cause of depression is still either unknown or multi-factorial, depending on how cynical you want to be. The Wikipedia section on this reflects this: "The biopsychosocial model proposes that biological, psychological, and social factors all play a role in causing depression.[5][28] The diathesis–stress model specifies that depression results when a preexisting vulnerability, or diathesis, is activated by stressful life events. [...]" [0] Similarly, Cognitive Behavioral therapy which, well, focuses on behavioral interventions and has had astonishing successes with medium as well as major depression, often on par or exceeding drug therapy - and absolutely shining in combination with drug therapy. As I said, I might be out of date on my information, but IMO depression is a bit too important too take weirdly partisan stances like "external treatment is claptrap" just because... [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_depressive_disorder#Cause https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_depressive_disorder#Caus...
- colechristensen 5y ago
  “Depression” isn’t one disorder it is a convenient diagnoses for a cluster of symptoms with many underlying causes. Don’t lean too hard on a dichotomy between what is just “chemistry” and what is not. Do not lean too hard on neurotransmitters, they are sold to the public as one dimensional “serotonin does X, dopamine does Y”. Your brain is more or less the most complicated feedback system in the universe. Depression is a high level dysfunction of this system, it doesn’t have a simple cure like turning up the thermostat on one variable. Behavioral interventions are physical interventions. What isn’t reasonable is expecting a “do this it’s good for you” solution, regardless of what that solution is. Usually the solution is many things, and it will take a very long time to understand them well unless you want to volunteer for experimental brain surgery.
cushychicken 5y ago
I found Sapolsky's lecture on the chemistry of depression to be highly illuminating of this effect. https://www.robertsapolskyrocks.com/depression.html https://www.robertsapolskyrocks.com/depression.html
WhompingWindows 5y ago
I was depressed for years due to two things: a bad relationship and bad jobs. Once I moved on from the hoarder ex with 3 un-treated mental health problems, whose clothes literally covered the entire bedroom, floor and bed and all surfaces, well damn: I was a lot less depressed! Imagine a 1500 sqft apartment where 90% of the possessions are not yours, where if you see a piece of her garbage and toss it out, she'll get mad at you, even if it's a rotting, blackened orange peel. This sort of toxic relationship has to end, do not cling, do not "care for them" if they refuse professional help. This will sap your energy, it will sap your life, and you'll become depressed, unable to muster the energy to "fix" them or to leave the relationship. It was only when she went away for 3 months one summer, and I was marvelously not depressed and I didn't miss her one jot, I knew it had to end when she returned. On top of that, I was in high-stress teaching jobs, $11/hr with no benefits in inner-city schools: this was important and impactful work, but brutal on the self. We actually got called racists by a very rowdy student, who wasn't allowed to jump on the desk and scream "I LOVE TACOS!" I'm not kidding, he called us racist for not allowing that. Never-mind the constant fights, religious students telling me science is fake, or having 35 kids in a tiny classroom. Teaching is a very important and undervalued field. Once I actually got a $30/hr job with benefits and gained my freedom from toxic relations, suddenly I was the happiest I'd ever been. Add onto that, being in a relationship with a good match, with someone who had no undiagnosed/untreated mental health problems.
- podgaj 5y ago
  > I was depressed for years due to two things: a bad relationship and bad jobs. That is sadness, not depression. It is a mistake so many people are making in this thread. COVID lockdown made you sad, not depressed. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-squeaky-wheel/201510/the-important-difference-between-sadness-and-depression https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-squeaky-wheel/20...
  - WhompingWindows 5y ago
    Well friend, I'm sorry to say your comments were hurtful to me. Do you really think an internet comment I scribbled out in 2 minutes is enough to un-diagnose me? Do you think someone diagnosed with depression by both an MD and a psychiatrist doesn't know the difference between sadness and a disorder? First, I didn't mention COVID lockdown, this relationship and job occurred in the mid 2010's, long before COVID. Second, depression is a family illness on both sides for me. I experienced a lot of bad times, went to an MD and a psychiatrist, both of whom diagnosed me with mild depression. I wasn't a severe case, maybe you're conflating mild depression vs. severe depression. My friend, just take a deep breath and ask yourself: have you clinically interviewed me? Are you a psychiatrist? If not, you really can't say whether or not I have had depression or not, you have no data to make any claims.
vmh1928 5y ago
I'm suspicious of any "mood" discussion that isn't based on brain chemicals and the different receptor sites in the brain. Concepts like "consciousness" are unscientific, subjective and open to such a wide range of interpretations as to be at best useless or worse, damaging to people's perception of their condition and/or progress. How do I know if I'm conscious or at the right level of consciousness or too conscious? One finds the same sort of discussion in religion. Brain chemicals and receptors are real. Brain chemicals and receptors are real
- lovethyenemy 5y ago
  >Concepts like "consciousness" are unscientific If science can't explain something, does that make it unscientific, and thus useless to discuss?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- podgaj 5y ago
  I agree. People here are not even making a distinction between sadness and depression. And we need more talk about oxidative stress and mood disorders. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3964745/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3964745/
Klesio 5y ago
Thinking about the world and why we are here is exhausting. I'm happy for everyone who either believe in a god and just accept this as it is or accepted that we just don't know and continue there life's as is. For me I do struggle with all the implications that we just don't know, life in a rock and fly through an empty universe. Living in a time we're out imagination is so good (scifi movies) and living in a totally 'boring' world in comparison, makes it even harder. When thinking through all of this it's even getting more frustrating as I sometimes think we could ourselves make our all life's so much more comfortable by just thinking on the same plane but we don't. We still have wars different worldviews and rules. Homosexual people still get hangt in some countries, obesity is a real issue and cutting female parts is also still a thing. And I'm already in theory in a very very comfortable position. And I even hate that. I don't want others to work from mo-sa 10h for my shoes while I don't even wanna work 40h in my well paid job.
MrDresden 5y ago
I have always had minor depressive tendencies, and living near the arctic circle has not done me any favours (mainly due to seasonal affective disorder) during the long dark winters. However there are psilocybin containing mushrooms (liberty caps I believe they are called) growing wild here, and so I've had the opportunity to try these on a few occasions. And the effects did wonders for me. There were never any hallucinations only mild bodily effects (felt mild pressure on my skin, similar to being submerged in water) and then this feeling of "one-ness" with everyone there. I guess that was my eco reducing or going. After having experienced this around 4 times with many months inbetween I can say it had an immense lasting effect on me. I am more open, relaxed and sensative. My mind feels free. But not without worry. Just better than before.
GuB-42 5y ago
The way I understand it, depression is a disease like the flu, or whatever thing that made you feel like shit. With the flu, you can't just wish the virus away, and you will feel like shit until your immune system and whatever treatment you received has done its job and your body has recovered. I tend to think it is the same with depression, your lungs may not be under attack, but you are still sick and it has to be treated like a real disease, possibly with medication. And I wouldn't be surprised if many depressions could be explained by conventional pathogens like viruses and bacteria.

207 points by kvee 5y ago

> Depressed people often say it involves a fundamental shift, like entering a different ‘world’ – a world detached from ordinary reality and other people. Depression seems to be a more totalising kind of experience than some others. Perhaps it is even a distinct state of consciousness, and can, in turn, reveal something about the nature of consciousness itself. If depression wasn't seen with a negative valence then its prevalence in contemporary society would be much more obvious. Most people, at least the ones that can't afford to live close to green spaces, are far removed from nature and surrounded by mostly artificial constructions. There is research that indicates this is generally not good for mental health and is probably a causal factor for the rise in mental illnesses and associated over-medication in dealing with low moods and anxiety. [1] The other issue is the following: > Seeing depression along with other altered global states of consciousness is a theoretical rather than a clinical shift – but it could make a difference to how we treat depression further along the line. In particular, the idea can shed light on the success of psychedelic psychiatry, a recent and growing research field, which looks to treat various mental disorders with psychedelics such as ketamine, mescaline and psilocybin (the active ingredient in magic mushrooms). It's great we can give people drugs to reduce their suffering but this doesn't address the systemic and environmental issues that force people to seek the medication in the first place. There is a clear signal that even though the human built environment has reduced much physical suffering it has nonetheless also had several unintended consequences like increased incidence of various psychopathologies. 1: https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/145305/green-space-is-good-for-mental-health https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/145305/green-space-...

amriksohata 5y ago

In Ayurveda (comes from hindu sages, invented yoga etc) they say that some forms of depression come from the gut brain axis. THere are 3 types of body type and eating the wrong foods for each body type can make your mind inbalanced. Whilst in comparision western nutrionists/dieticians say have a balanced diet, Ayurveda says eat foods depending on your body type its not as simple as calories, protein, carbs. It depends on the food itself.

jinder 5y ago
I think the reality is closer to different dysbiotic states can cause depression. Depending on the the specific dysbiosis, the interventions will be different.
- mandmandam 5y ago
  .. And would you categorise those different dysbiotic states into ... types?
  - jinder 5y ago
    I'm sure you could - but if you went about it scientifically there would easily be thousands (not just the 3 in Ayurveda). That being said, I do think Ayurveda is mostly about manipulating the microbiome, and I think there are probably real nuggets of truth in its approaches. For example the use of Triphala to improve motility will help in numerous dysbiotic states.
matbatt38 5y ago
Well I don't think there's any evidence for that to be true, actually.
- xyzzy123 5y ago
  Agree (in terms of the kind of formal evidence I imagine you would accept). However it doesn't need to be "true" in any objective sense, to provide relief or improve wellbeing. Is an interesting thought, would love to see clinical trials of various spiritual and traditional medicine practices. The combo of say, CBT and (dubiously effective) antidepressants doesn't seem wildly different, except traditional practices are often better "socially integrated" and have less stigma.
  - mapcars 5y ago
    Someone should conduct those researches, the thing is people who do it and who benefit from it they don't need any proof, any acceptance from others or anything like that.

jokoon 5y ago

> You don't think in depression that you've put on a gray veil and are seeing the world through the haze of a bad mood. You think that the veil has been taken away, the veil of happiness, and that now you're seeing truly. > Andrew Solomon

joeberon 5y ago
I saw a piece of research saying that it is true, that depressed people see outcomes more realistically, while non-depressed people are in a state of constant self-delusion where they convince themselves things are better than they are
- jiggawatts 5y ago
  The corollary is that most people confuse realism and rational thinking for pessimism. People that don't know me will initially assume that I'm the negative one on the team. A year later I'm the one dragging the others across the finish line, telling them that it's not that bad, even though my predictions did come true, right on schedule. I was just being accurate, and a successful outcome despite predicted failures along the way is a pretty good result, even if it seemed negative to naively a optimistic person. We foresaw the traps, stumbled, and yet we overcame! What's not positive about that?
  - orzig 5y ago
    As someone who fills a similar role on my team, I've learned to be careful about my tone and to pick my battles (and I'm still far from perfect). Of course, bottling up the frustration of knowing about the oncoming train wreck is its own challenge, which I'd certainly appreciate ideas on.
- mrblampo 5y ago
  I think I saw the same research, but that was more about seeing how bad things are going globally, right? Bet that trend breaks down when it comes to evaluating the quality of your own life.
- 5y ago

llamataboot 5y ago

There are many paths into depression, and many paths out of it. But as someone that once fell into a decade+ of depression and could not get out, I think that one key is to try to get back on top of it quickly. It's a bit like getting further and further out of shape that way, because of the changes of thought patterns and self-image and socialization patterns etc - the further you go the more the very things you need to get out are being undercut. (And yet, just like that example, you can always start where you are at, and sometimes even a bit of change can be more dramatic and exhilarating than you think it would be - perhaps walking up the stairs without getting winded feels like a huge victory, if you aren't focused on how long it will be until you run that marathon) In my own experience, and in working with people with severe depression, I have found two things to be almost universal. One is that the pathway out involves better noticing of small shifts in consciousness in the present moment - depression is a flatland, yet even within it there are small tiny windows of light that can be noticed and built on. The other is that, and this especially applies to people that live inside their head, are very smart, very analytical, etc...the body itself provides a pathway out. Without even getting into somatic psychology, the act of doing things where one is experiencing felt sensation in the body provides a ground for consciousness outside of the grey hazy thought world.

nextaccountic 5y ago
> But as someone that once fell into a decade+ of depression and could not get out, I think that one key is to try to get back on top of it quickly. Hi, I'm not a native speaker and Google-fu didn't help with this, so.. what do you mean by "get back on top of it"? What actions does it entails?
- sergiosgc 5y ago
  Not a native speaker either, so take this with a grain of salt. I read it as acting promptly, staying ahead of the problem, do not postpone remedial action.
- wombatmobile 5y ago
  "get back on top of it" is a symbolic form of speech. Picture two wrestlers. The one on top is in control. The one on the bottom is powerless, subjugated.

lewispollard 5y ago

Like most articles about "consciousness", they're going to have to define consciousness more precisely. > Neuroscientists and philosophers of consciousness have recently coined a new term – the global state of consciousness – to describe the structural properties of experience that varies between ordinary wakefulness, dreaming, the psychedelic state and the minimally conscious state. These states are called ‘global’ because the whole of conscious experience is altered, not just a particular element. Well, which is it; consciousness that's altered, or conscious experience? It would seem that a change in conscious experience doesn't necessarily make any difference to consciousness itself - i.e. consciousness isn't altered by the experiences and sensations it's observing and conscious of, it's a buffer in which sensations are known and experienced. As someone who previously wrestled with depression, dabbled in psychedelics, and has a long-term insight meditation practice, it doesn't matter whether I was severely depressed or tripping balls, my consciousness of those experiences remained the same. That's actually one of the insights that psychedelics quickly revealed. Experience comes and goes, and consciousness itself doesn't seem to be coloured by it. If the headline said that "depression is a change in mental states and perceptions", well that's obvious, we've known that for probably centuries. Throw the "consciousness" buzzword in and ooh, it's exciting now! But kind of meaningless imo. I don't really see how the article differentiates between "consciousness" and "mental states and perceptions".

mapcars 5y ago
Here is a definition of consciousness by world-renown Indian yogi, goes quite a bit deeper than what science can understand: https://youtu.be/w7irEcQHChw?t=410 https://youtu.be/w7irEcQHChw?t=410

antihero 5y ago

I like the global state of mind idea, however, I feel that it isn't purely due to this state - I think the depressive state is something that comes around due to lots of other factors such as your life, your health, your physical brain composition. So it's almost like, if your environment and health are bad your consciousness will be more "magnetised" towards a global depressive state, and whilst psychedelics may help awaken you, you'll be more likely to slip back into it in time without fixing other stuff. Psychedelics may be a temporary cure to crushing hopelessness, a kick in the mental butt, but for a one that is long lasting you have to have things to be genuinely hopeful about. Depression I think is a complex, multi-dimensional issue that has to be solved by giving yourself the best chance across the board - sorting out health, sorting out meaning and purpose, sorting out social and support networks, and once those things are in place, taking your shot at it on a brain chemistry and consciousness-altering level with something like psiloscibin etc.

93po 5y ago
Psychedelics can also be harmful for mental health. They tend to create flexibility in terms of thinking about things in new ways - and that can include self harm as well. As in, making it seem easier or more enticing or less of a big deal to end one's life.

callesgg 5y ago

Meh, people playing with words. If you have taken psychedelics you know what a shift in consciousness feels like. Depression does not feel like that.

Synaesthesia 5y ago
I feel like my depression can change the way I interact with and percieve everything.
DocTomoe 5y ago
"State of consciousness" is a technical term that describes a mode of your experience. Sleep is a state of consciousness. That trance-like hyperfocussed flow experience is a state of consciousness. You can induce a state of consciousness by meditation. Depression may just be a state of consciousness. States of consciousness can usually be measured and distinguished from each other with standard brain-scanning methods. Not all shift in these states need to be as flashy as a LSD trip. In fact, very few are.
Levitz 5y ago
I have taken psychedelics and frankly I'd say it does feel like that, just in a non-enjoyable, "bad" way. One makes you notice tiny details and the beauty in them, the other paints everything as grey and uninteresting, one makes you thing about the greater scope of things, the other barely lets you think much outside your circumstance. I really think it does translate.
- callesgg 5y ago
  Depression for me is mostly being disengaged, not noticing anything, not wanting to think about anything, wanting to sleep 16 hours a day, feeling only low or neutral valence thoughts.

speedcoder 5y ago

Perhaps depression is a choice, and you can brainswitch out of it: http://depressionisachoice.com http://depressionisachoice.com .

imtringued 5y ago
If it's a choice then it's like choosing to smoke. Once you've done it enough you'll notice that it's hard to quit.
- speedcoder 5y ago
  Yes. Some choices are hard. Still, are they choices?

alexanderthe- 5y ago

Given that everything we experience in this life is through our consciousness, equating depression to a shift in consciousness isn't heavy lifting. This is an association where I would like to see some hard science backing the link between our conscious experience and the underlying function of our wetware, the brain. As far as subjective experience, I've witnessed myself slowly slip into a depression toward the end of a relationship I knew wasn't going to pan out. I couldn't put my finger on it at the time, but I slowly remembered sex becoming less enjoyable with my ex, the pull of my hobbies less exciting and rewarding, my global outlook on life and the vibrancy of my future becoming more dim and... depressing. This was anhedonia, the inability to feel pleasure. I felt like I was wading through a dark cloud. The ability to smile organically through enjoyable interactions and activities all but disappeared, or at the very least, felt forced and somewhat "empty", like I was a poor actor. I had to give a best man's speech around this time and was shocked to hear how monotone my voice had been while delivering the speech. Throughout all of this, I more or less kept the same routines. I was spending more time alone but still managed to schedule time with friends, I kept working out, and never slipped into a dark hole.. but I'm not ashamed to say I wasn't able to solve it alone, in fact the shift was so subtle that by the time I had become aware of what conscious state had become, I was dismayed to find that I was already doing what most people recommend to get out of a depression - stay active, spend time with friends and family, spend time in nature, exercise, etc. Which leads me to what ended up working... therapy. I can't say I've had any major trauma's in my life aside from losing my father as a teenager, but talking over my life with a therapist helped me come across some events that triggered me emotionally to revisit, and over several weeks I started to feel the cloud of anhedonia lifting and started to enjoy life as it appeared to me again. The major conclusion being the functioning of the subconscious mind on our conscious experience plays more of a role than I expected. YMMV, but if you are experiencing depression, consider therapy.. this is coming from someone who was already experienced in the trendiest news grabbing headlines for treating depression before I realized I had become depressed, including meditation and psychedelics.

Aqwis 5y ago

While I don't think anything in the linked article is wrong per se, it's a very brief look at a complicated and interesting topic. I'm slowly working my way through Ratcliffe's Experiences of Depression (mentioned in the article), which is basically "the" volume on this topic. It's a highly technical book (surprisingly so given the wide variety of people I've seen talking about it), so be prepared for a lot of psych jargon, but it's rewarding if you want to take a deeper dive into how depression feels than you get through reading the dry definitions in the DSM and similar resources. It probably helps with comprehension to have had depressive experiences yourself and possibly even more to have experienced a wide variety of conscious states (through psychotropic medication, psychedelics, other mental illnesses, shocking life experiences or otherwise). I'd say the book is so important that I wish the author would write a book on the same topic but in simpler language (popsci-esque, except less superficial than the typical popsci book) that could be read by a wider audience than Experiences of Depression. I think a lot of people have severe difficulties understanding depressed friends or family because the nuances of the experience of a depressed person are so difficult to convey in words. Such a book could help bridge the gap.

grasshopperpurp 5y ago

There's a new musician, Reggie, who is remarkably talented and deals with mental health in his music. Most of his five songs come from the perspective of overcoming his issues/environment/demons, but I Don't Want to Feel No More is similar in theme to Heroin by the Velvet Underground. Anyway, his attention to detail - lyrically and musically - makes for very relatable, enjoyable experiences, and if you're going through it, I could def see it helping. I'm not going through it; I just love it. https://youtu.be/JukqFyMo8YE https://youtu.be/JukqFyMo8YE https://youtu.be/qAqIQScmL0Q https://youtu.be/qAqIQScmL0Q

kklisura 5y ago

There's a great video from a professor at Stanford, Robert Sapolsky, about depression, where he dives into the biological and psychological aspect of depression. [1] > If I had to define major depression in one sentence, I would say, it’s a lot biochemical disorder with a genetic component, and early experience influences, where somebody can’t appreciate sunsets. And that’s what this disease is about. [1] (2009, youtube) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOAgplgTxfc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOAgplgTxfc

podgaj 5y ago
We have come a long way since 2009: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1089860320301993 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S10898... What Sapolsky was talking about was correct, but the fundamental driver seems to be oxidative stress imbalance. And the genetics part might be highly associated with the mitochondria: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-021-01268-x https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-021-01268-x

tartoran 5y ago

Yes but, isn’t mood also a shift in consciousness as well?

w_t_payne 5y ago

My experience suggests to me that there is a strong perceptual component to depression: It is a sort of blinkering of the internal eye. The world does not literally become black and white, but nothing in the world is capable of engaging the mind enough to elicit even the briefest saccade and fixation upon it. Attention must be forced upon objects in the world, laboriously and painfully, and the entire perceptual experience is dull and muted, as if the internal emotional pain has become so overwhelming that it has cast a grey fog over the landscape. The symptoms are profoundly physical; physiological in nature. It is without doubt a disease of the physical body; albeit one which often seems driven by a fractured and injured psyche throwing out discordant, disordered and malign thoughts. Recovery from depression feels like waking up. The blinkers withdraw, and the world expands, becoming larger, richer and more engaging. The brilliant yellow of a flower is quantitatively still the same, yet draws the eye and becomes an occasion for delight whereas before there would have been nothing. This experience makes the most sense for me when I consider perception as an active process. Information does not simply fall into the eyes to be passively consumed. Our perceptual experience is a dynamic thing - a continual act of the imagination, only just held in check by our senses. Depression distorts and undermines that part of our imagination which we use to see the world.

podgaj 5y ago

NOTE: I have Schizoaffective Bipolar Disorder, Aspergers, hospitalized five times, with three suicide attempts. This will sound ranty because, uhm, I am in a different state of consciousness. I also consider myself a Shaman by heritage, not by choice, my mother's lineage comes from the Sami people. I hate these articles. Why? Because first, they make money off of my lived experience while I am forced to live in a van on disability. There should be a law that if you write about a group of suffering people a portion of the profit should go to the group you are writing about. But these articles do nothing to help people like me. And please do not tell me they increase sympathy because my situation has only gotten worse over the last 15 years, before getting better on my own accord, and I have read countless of these articles. What would help these other lost shaman is housing to lower our stress so we do not have to keep taking trips into these other consciousnesses that no one cares about. But oh well. Second, why just talk about depression? Why not mania, or being drunk, on ecstasy, drinking coffee, or being on meth? They all change your consciousness. What world or realm you perceive is based on what genetics, diet, pollution, stress, drugs, etc to which you are exposed. But for some reason everyone loves depression, it is the most romantic and safest of the mood disorders. Third, the reason mushrooms work is the same reason prozac, lamictal, or lithium work. It changes the neuro-chemistry of the brain. Psilocybin is an extremely potent serotonin 2a (HTR2A) receptor agonist. It has nothing to do with your experience from the trip, that is all just a romanticized notion lefty over from the 60s. The "trip" is just a side effect. These same receptors casue pain disorders and the are researching Psilocybin for pain as well. When I was younger I tripped without using mushrooms, certainly more when I was manic. Why? Genetics. I know, I have my genetics, it's all there. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19855357/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19855357/ Fourth, this is not a revelation to anyone who has spent time with the disorder and dabbled in any eastern religion. The consciousness we share is based on a delicate balance of a somewhat similar functioning brains. Even slight deviations of that and our consciousness is split from crowd, even from your closest partner. When I became as serious mediator under the Theravada branch of Buddhism it was very easy for me to trip while meditating. The studies that have been done on mediators found they had an increase amount of the metabolites of serotonin. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4769029/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4769029/ That is not a coincidence! Finally, the people who described depression were right on. Our change unconsciousness allows us to see the different worlds that lay outside the realm of the common consciousness. So maybe instead of making us poor and saying we have a disorder, how about return us to our correct place in the social structure as spiritual seers and shaman. Instead of being scared of us or tryingt o fix us, listen to the stories we have to tell about what surrounds all of you but none of you can see. There is plenty to be depressed about that you all do not see becasue of all the coffee and alcohol. As a shaman, I will tell you, Psilocybin is not the answer for people with depression. The answer for depression would entail changing the entire socio-economic structure. All Psilocybin will do is MAYBE help you see that truth, but usually it is just a vacation from your current consciousness. The answer to depression is welcoming it and listening to it. (Yes, this is hard because our culture does not care if you have a change in consciousness. You will lose you job and become homeless. But do you think it is a coincidence that Buddha, Jesus, and St. Francis all talked about being homeless?) I no longer take medications to control my changes in consciousness (Well, sometimes klonopin) and I mostly welcome my homelessness. But now I just let these changes happen, they tell me stories of what I need to do, what to fix in my life, and what should be fixed in others lives. Blessed be the seers.

iandanforth 5y ago

Lot of behavioral claptrap in the comments here. Depression is a disorder of neurochemistry. It has physical causes. Yes our current toolset to fix the malfunctioning system is limited but we are not limited to shaking the case. Behavioral interventions are external, indirect, poorly targeted and broad spectrum. Really turn-it-off-and-turn-it-back-on-again thinking. Instead of bringing in further poorly defined ideas like consciousness, let's keep the conversation focused on 1. Direct physical interventions and their methods of action and 2. The known limitations of the above. E.g. If the below effect of psilocybin holds up the question is why?! It too is poorly targeted and broad spectrum. Is this down regulating a dopamine reuptake pathway, or is it upregulating some countervailing transmitter? https://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddisalvo/2017/10/23/magic-mushrooms-show-promise-as-depression-remedy-by-resetting-the-brain/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddisalvo/2017/10/23/magic-m...

blackbrokkoli 5y ago
How do you come to these conclusions? If I am not unaware of some brand new research, the cause of depression is still either unknown or multi-factorial, depending on how cynical you want to be. The Wikipedia section on this reflects this: "The biopsychosocial model proposes that biological, psychological, and social factors all play a role in causing depression.[5][28] The diathesis–stress model specifies that depression results when a preexisting vulnerability, or diathesis, is activated by stressful life events. [...]" [0] Similarly, Cognitive Behavioral therapy which, well, focuses on behavioral interventions and has had astonishing successes with medium as well as major depression, often on par or exceeding drug therapy - and absolutely shining in combination with drug therapy. As I said, I might be out of date on my information, but IMO depression is a bit too important too take weirdly partisan stances like "external treatment is claptrap" just because... [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_depressive_disorder#Cause https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_depressive_disorder#Caus...
colechristensen 5y ago
“Depression” isn’t one disorder it is a convenient diagnoses for a cluster of symptoms with many underlying causes. Don’t lean too hard on a dichotomy between what is just “chemistry” and what is not. Do not lean too hard on neurotransmitters, they are sold to the public as one dimensional “serotonin does X, dopamine does Y”. Your brain is more or less the most complicated feedback system in the universe. Depression is a high level dysfunction of this system, it doesn’t have a simple cure like turning up the thermostat on one variable. Behavioral interventions are physical interventions. What isn’t reasonable is expecting a “do this it’s good for you” solution, regardless of what that solution is. Usually the solution is many things, and it will take a very long time to understand them well unless you want to volunteer for experimental brain surgery.

cushychicken 5y ago

I found Sapolsky's lecture on the chemistry of depression to be highly illuminating of this effect. https://www.robertsapolskyrocks.com/depression.html https://www.robertsapolskyrocks.com/depression.html

WhompingWindows 5y ago

I was depressed for years due to two things: a bad relationship and bad jobs. Once I moved on from the hoarder ex with 3 un-treated mental health problems, whose clothes literally covered the entire bedroom, floor and bed and all surfaces, well damn: I was a lot less depressed! Imagine a 1500 sqft apartment where 90% of the possessions are not yours, where if you see a piece of her garbage and toss it out, she'll get mad at you, even if it's a rotting, blackened orange peel. This sort of toxic relationship has to end, do not cling, do not "care for them" if they refuse professional help. This will sap your energy, it will sap your life, and you'll become depressed, unable to muster the energy to "fix" them or to leave the relationship. It was only when she went away for 3 months one summer, and I was marvelously not depressed and I didn't miss her one jot, I knew it had to end when she returned. On top of that, I was in high-stress teaching jobs, $11/hr with no benefits in inner-city schools: this was important and impactful work, but brutal on the self. We actually got called racists by a very rowdy student, who wasn't allowed to jump on the desk and scream "I LOVE TACOS!" I'm not kidding, he called us racist for not allowing that. Never-mind the constant fights, religious students telling me science is fake, or having 35 kids in a tiny classroom. Teaching is a very important and undervalued field. Once I actually got a $30/hr job with benefits and gained my freedom from toxic relations, suddenly I was the happiest I'd ever been. Add onto that, being in a relationship with a good match, with someone who had no undiagnosed/untreated mental health problems.

podgaj 5y ago
> I was depressed for years due to two things: a bad relationship and bad jobs. That is sadness, not depression. It is a mistake so many people are making in this thread. COVID lockdown made you sad, not depressed. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-squeaky-wheel/201510/the-important-difference-between-sadness-and-depression https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-squeaky-wheel/20...
- WhompingWindows 5y ago
  Well friend, I'm sorry to say your comments were hurtful to me. Do you really think an internet comment I scribbled out in 2 minutes is enough to un-diagnose me? Do you think someone diagnosed with depression by both an MD and a psychiatrist doesn't know the difference between sadness and a disorder? First, I didn't mention COVID lockdown, this relationship and job occurred in the mid 2010's, long before COVID. Second, depression is a family illness on both sides for me. I experienced a lot of bad times, went to an MD and a psychiatrist, both of whom diagnosed me with mild depression. I wasn't a severe case, maybe you're conflating mild depression vs. severe depression. My friend, just take a deep breath and ask yourself: have you clinically interviewed me? Are you a psychiatrist? If not, you really can't say whether or not I have had depression or not, you have no data to make any claims.

vmh1928 5y ago

I'm suspicious of any "mood" discussion that isn't based on brain chemicals and the different receptor sites in the brain. Concepts like "consciousness" are unscientific, subjective and open to such a wide range of interpretations as to be at best useless or worse, damaging to people's perception of their condition and/or progress. How do I know if I'm conscious or at the right level of consciousness or too conscious? One finds the same sort of discussion in religion. Brain chemicals and receptors are real. Brain chemicals and receptors are real

lovethyenemy 5y ago
>Concepts like "consciousness" are unscientific If science can't explain something, does that make it unscientific, and thus useless to discuss?
deleted 5y ago
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podgaj 5y ago
I agree. People here are not even making a distinction between sadness and depression. And we need more talk about oxidative stress and mood disorders. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3964745/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3964745/

Klesio 5y ago

Thinking about the world and why we are here is exhausting. I'm happy for everyone who either believe in a god and just accept this as it is or accepted that we just don't know and continue there life's as is. For me I do struggle with all the implications that we just don't know, life in a rock and fly through an empty universe. Living in a time we're out imagination is so good (scifi movies) and living in a totally 'boring' world in comparison, makes it even harder. When thinking through all of this it's even getting more frustrating as I sometimes think we could ourselves make our all life's so much more comfortable by just thinking on the same plane but we don't. We still have wars different worldviews and rules. Homosexual people still get hangt in some countries, obesity is a real issue and cutting female parts is also still a thing. And I'm already in theory in a very very comfortable position. And I even hate that. I don't want others to work from mo-sa 10h for my shoes while I don't even wanna work 40h in my well paid job.

MrDresden 5y ago

I have always had minor depressive tendencies, and living near the arctic circle has not done me any favours (mainly due to seasonal affective disorder) during the long dark winters. However there are psilocybin containing mushrooms (liberty caps I believe they are called) growing wild here, and so I've had the opportunity to try these on a few occasions. And the effects did wonders for me. There were never any hallucinations only mild bodily effects (felt mild pressure on my skin, similar to being submerged in water) and then this feeling of "one-ness" with everyone there. I guess that was my eco reducing or going. After having experienced this around 4 times with many months inbetween I can say it had an immense lasting effect on me. I am more open, relaxed and sensative. My mind feels free. But not without worry. Just better than before.

GuB-42 5y ago

The way I understand it, depression is a disease like the flu, or whatever thing that made you feel like shit. With the flu, you can't just wish the virus away, and you will feel like shit until your immune system and whatever treatment you received has done its job and your body has recovered. I tend to think it is the same with depression, your lungs may not be under attack, but you are still sick and it has to be treated like a real disease, possibly with medication. And I wouldn't be surprised if many depressions could be explained by conventional pathogens like viruses and bacteria.