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The popularity of e-bikes isn’t slowing down

• FridayoLeary 5y ago
  The politics now are about banning ice. The electric cars being more expensive makes this discriminatory against low earners. I wonder if it would be far more effective to ban large suv's (uk). Of course e bikes and scooters are the way forward in cities.
  • TulliusCicero 5y ago
    Electric cars are rapidly approaching the point where they're actually cheaper than ICE cars, due to lower operating costs. As they scale up, they may well become cheaper up front, too.
    • FridayoLeary 5y ago
      I try and follow the market closely and the numbers don't seem to make sense yet. Furthermore evs will not solve urban transport problems unless they will be unviable to many. Now, taking pointless, huge and very polluting SUV status symbols of the road (that's where they are made to go after all...) will bring vast benefits to everybody involved and guess what? It doesn't have to be the poorer people who feel the pain. But e bikes? That's a great idea. A government program to trade a car for an e bike and merits would be amazing. E scooters likewise are officially illegal, but i think police here are very wise to turn a blind eye to them.
      • TulliusCicero 5y ago
        I'd love to believe in this, but the issue is really government policy, at least in the US. Most areas have road design and zoning that's hostile to anything that's not a car, especially bikes. We recently moved from Munich, and there we didn't even have a car, just public transport and biking for us. Now we're living in Kirkland, we have no car and will probably get another one, and biking will probably be minimal, honestly. We can bike okay to the closest grocery store/shopping center, but going further seems sketchy.
    • asdff 5y ago
      A lot of working poor people rely on being able to do low cost maintenance themselves or bringing it to a family member or close friend with experience or a very trusted repair shop. They would never get their car serviced at the dealer given the costs. If the cost of repair is too large they sell the car for scrap and buy another bottom of market car and repeat the process. What happens for these people in the EV age, when its illegal to work on your own Tesla and everything will be serviced at a first party dealership?
      • TulliusCicero 5y ago
        Well, I think the idea is that while it would be difficult to work on an EV motor yourself, it's also much less necessary, as electric motors are much simpler, with far fewer moving parts. I don't know if we have enough data yet to evaluate, but EV's should be much lower maintenance in that regard. Outside of the powertrain, seems like the rest of the car should be similar though, like tires and brakes, right?
        • asdff 5y ago
          It will be similar but who knows if you could do stuff like change rotting suspension bushings, change cabin air filters, replace rusting brake lines with third party parts or if Tesla will sell you these parts themselves directly (I'd expect not). I looked up how you change the headlight bulb on a tesla and it apparently involves removing the front wheel. Most other cars that's a thirty second job.
          • TulliusCicero 5y ago
            For Tesla that doesn't surprise me, but they're unusual in many respects. I'd be more surprised if what you're suggesting became true for EV's in general.
      • tonyedgecombe 5y ago
        I think a more likely issues is the large capital cost of replacing the battery will put a floor on the affordability of EV's. Bangernomics[1] is probably on its way out. [1] https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/used-car-buying-guides/25-years-bangernomics-how-buy-and-run-used-car-cheaply https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/used-car-buying-guides/25...
• alephnan 5y ago
  Is there a Tesla of bikes?
  • tonyedgecombe 5y ago
    https://www.r-m.de/en-gb/bikes/ https://www.r-m.de/en-gb/bikes/
• kccqzy 5y ago
  I really enjoyed my e-bike when I bought it in 2018 or so. The pedal assist really felt seamless: you can get to the top speed of 20mph by pedaling with as much effort as it took to get to maybe 12mph on a regular bike. Unfortunately, the bike being worth thousands of dollars, it was a prime target for theft. My bike was stolen in San Jose and I decided to replace it with a sub-$1000 regular bike.
  • darkwizard42 5y ago
    This really is my biggest fear with owning these. I think going to and from the office is a safe one since you can park the bike indoors, but for errands or outdoor casual riding it feels too risky!
    • jacquesm 5y ago
      Yes, this is a problem. I have a pretty beefy lock with my e-bike and still I don't feel comfortable leaving it outside a store for more than three minutes or so (which is probably still plenty of time to steal it).
  • akvadrako 5y ago
    You should probably get them insured then you don't need to worry much about theft. It's not very expensive - like €10-15/month for a good bike.
    • deanclatworthy 5y ago
      Here in Finland best you can do is 1% depreciation a month. So after two years you’ve lost 24% value of your bike if it’s stolen. That’s a significant amount of money on top of a deductible to cough up to replace a stolen bike. Considering the probability of having it stolen is far far higher than a car too… I know people who have had 2-3 of these bikes stolen. I use mine for commute at the moment and that’s it.
  • rcMgD2BwE72F 5y ago
    >sub-$1000 regular bike. Sounds expensive to me. I ride a Decathlon Triban 100 FB that cost me 150€ (new). Better than most 1K+ gravel bikes and not a target for thieves in Paris bc it's too common.
• fh973 5y ago
  > ... and have the potential to transform urban transit. Not in Germany. Biking is and will stay irrelevant for daily transport as long as the infrastructure is a joke. Electric propulsion isn't the missing link. Interestingly you'll find holiday areas that have biking infrastructure packed with older people on e-bikes.
  • akgerber 5y ago
    Where bike infrastructure is lacking, it is easier to integrate with urban car traffic on an ebike because you can travel at closer to urban car speeds and start/stop more quickly. Car-oriented areas are also designed with less respect to topography than older areas designed around pedestrians, and electric propulsion makes biking up grades easier.
  • TulliusCicero 5y ago
    I was in Munich for five years and biked heavily. The bike infrastructure there far surpassed any major US city, protected bike lanes and off street bike paths within the city were common. That said, bike lanes were still an obvious second class citizen compared to car lanes in terms of ubiquity and quality, so there's still plenty of room for improvement.
  • pjmlp 5y ago
    And the weather is not inviting to cycle all year anyway. Maybe there are people that enjoy doing 30 km under heavy rain or negative temperatures with snow, I rather not.
    • quadrangle 5y ago
      it might not be inviting, but it's FINE. Biking in negative temperatures with snow is easier than heavy rain (heavy rain is the worst case). The ONLY barrier to biking in snow is whether priority is given to support the infrastructure to make it safe. Why Canadians Can't Bike in the Winter (but Finnish people can) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU Answer: because Finnish people have dedicated bike paths that aren't next to traffic and are cleared and maintained by the city, even in snowy weather. And in that case even elderly people still bike. It's not some extreme thing.
• Mengkudulangsat 5y ago
  I'm sorry, but I absolutely hate e-bikes. We in Asia have figured the urban transit riddle long ago: Motorbikes or the more sustainable option; electric scooters [1]. If we are going to share the road, might as well everyone becomes capable of reaching similar speeds. E-bikes necessitate a cyclist lane for no good reason. [1] https://www.gogoro.com/ https://www.gogoro.com/
  • Retric 5y ago
    E-bikes allow a wider range of people to exercise and travel quickly. That’s their advantage over both electric scooters and traditional bicycles. As such they are really worth incorporating into the urban landscape. Also, it’s not obvious but the highest throughput per unit area at street level is sidewalks, bike lanes, and then the least efficient traffic lanes. Sidewalks need skyscrapers and a massive subway system to really scale, but bike lanes are mostly limited by adoption which again makes E-Bikes really useful.
    • Mengkudulangsat 5y ago
      Electric scooters come with some amazing safety innovations, namely turn signals and rear-view mirrors. I honestly don't understand why people need to exercise on their commute, just go to the gym!
      • Retric 5y ago
        Going to the gym takes time. Even if you’re just walking for 20 minutes each way that’s still 40 minutes of light exercise 5 days a week for 40 years. Which from a public health standpoint is quite significant as few people go to the gym every week for their entire working life. E-bikes combine that basic level of exercise with being able to travel significant distances or across steep hills. Driving is faster but takes longer to park and doesn’t scale nearly as well in terms of infrastructure so it’s not a major time saver compared to short bike commutes. Granted, bike infrastructure is often unused in the US but it’s often a question of critical mass. There needs to be enough in place to get to everything safely and it needs to be around long enough for people to start using it.
• r00fus 5y ago
  My local bike shop ran out of bike models due to the supply chain issues and the only bikes available were e-bikes. Add to this that e-bikes have much higher revenue/margin - most bike shops are converting shop space to sell e-bikes. I wonder if this contributed to e-bike sales? Also I know a bunch of people waiting for legislation to promote EVs (ie, extend the tax credit) all year (may never happen).
  • Rebelgecko 5y ago
    It's so asinine to me that the commuter benefits in our tax code help subsidize car commuting while offering nothing to people that commute via bike or ebike. If the ebike tax credit or bike commuter benefits end up becoming law in the next few months, I'm almost definitely going to buy an ebike.
• paulgb 5y ago
  The thing that excites me most about e-bikes is that they change the politics around cycling. Proponents of efforts to make roads safer for cyclists have always gotten pushback from people who think that cycling is a niche hobby of rich lycra-clad yuppies. With e-bikes becoming more common, I know a number of people who would not have touched a bike share but are using it as a replacement for Uber/Lyft rides. People can cycle in to work without breaking a sweat. It's a bummer that so much legislation aimed at reducing emissions subtly encourages the use of cars without throwing any bones to people who would like to ride bikes, electric or not.
  • paiute 5y ago
    I love mine, I think it opens up some opportunities to work on relations with cars and pedestrians. I feel less in the way when I can maintain a better speed up hill. and on trails it's not a burden to slow down when passing pedestrians on foot. Nothing is worse than a bike whizzing by when you don't expect it. I just wish they'd remove those stupid speed limiters.
    • multjoy 5y ago
      If you remove the speed limiter you are riding an electric motorcycle, which needs to be somewhere other than with pedestrians and cyclists.
      • zip1234 5y ago
        Except in many places pedestrians and cyclists have no choice but to share the road with cars and I don't see too many people clamoring for speed limiters on those...
        • multjoy 5y ago
          If you remove the limiter and pedal assist requirement, you have an electric motorcycle. If you want one of those, then you'll need to be licensed to ride one. Do you want an e-bike you can ride like a bicycle, or do you want an e-bike you can ride like a motorcycle?
• packetlost 5y ago
  I've long been of the opinion that the real winner in the EV market will be personal vehicles (such as eBikes) and electric mass transit, not larger EVs such as cars in most urban environments.
  • Robotbeat 5y ago
    That’s unlikely. From a revenue standpoint, ebikes are cheap and you don’t need that many e-buses. Even if we go to Netherlands-level bike-friendliness, that’s only a 40% reduction in per capita car/truck ownership at best. Doesn’t mean we won’t do a lot of miles by bike or bus, but as long as people have the money for it, they’ll still buy at least one car per household for cornercases that buses and bikes (& ride share) don’t address. If we get really good public transit and bike infrastructure, the median American household will probably have a couple electric bikes, one or two electric cars, and at least one person will commute via electric bus or train. It’s gonna be “both and.”
    • SahAssar 5y ago
      > that’s only a 40% reduction in per capita car/truck ownership at best. What is that based on?
      • Robotbeat 5y ago
        Number of motor vehicles per capita. US = 816 per 1000. Netherlands = 499 per 1000. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_vehicles_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_vehicles_... 499/816 = 61%. Only a 39% reduction. But there are geographical differences that make it even harder for the US to get rid of cars even if it had the same culture/institutions as the Netherlands.
• ahoy 5y ago
  I can imagine a world, maybe a generation or 2 from now, where our suburbs have shrunk to a bike-accessible scale. That would really, finally, be a step in the right direction.
  • criddell 5y ago
    Self driving cars are going to fuel sprawl like never before.
    • ghaff 5y ago
      I'm skeptical door-to-door self-driving will happen for the general case in the foreseeable future. But, if it does, certainly. An hour "being driven" to go into town for the evening is pretty tolerable compared to driving yourself (and even more so driving yourself back)--and would probably change the tradeoffs for a lot of people.
  • TulliusCicero 5y ago
    I don't think it would take that long, if there were the right policies. Especially if ebikes letting you go 20 mph were the norm, most suburbs aren't so low density that you couldn't have, say, bakeries or small grocery stores within biking distance. That would often require zoning changes, in addition to adding bike paths, but it wouldn't take a whole generation to get done.
    • kristjansson 5y ago
      We could have bakeries, small groceries, etc. within _walking_ distance right now, if zoning allowed them to be integrated into residential areas, and people didn't expect parking. Would that we could...
      • TulliusCicero 5y ago
        Depends on the surburb, I've definitely seen many where walking distance wouldn't work very well, there just flat out aren't that many people. You'll have a subdevelopment where there's 50-100 houses or whatever, and it's connected to a highway and otherwise surrounded by a bunch of green space. That's not enough people to support more than a kiosk's worth of retail, probably.
• jacquesm 5y ago
  Timely, I just spent some time building a very large (2150 Wh) pack for my high speed e-bike. The manufacturer (Bosch) doesn't sell anything that large, I use it as my car replacement and wanted a lot more range without having to swap batteries, as well as not to murder them by deep discharging them all the time. And the margins on e-bikes (relatively speaking) are a lot higher than on cars.
• darkwizard42 5y ago
  I wonder which mapping platform will start to improve routing for the e-bike user. I find that currently using an e-bike I don't get a very accurate ETA since the routes are calculated for regular bicycles (at least on Google Maps!). Also with an e-bike hills are no longer as large an issue as they would be to regular bikes so route decisions could be less roundabout.
  • sideshowb 5y ago
    Have you find any cases where hills are actually faster than an equal length flat route? I've been thinking it's at least theoretically possible as you could climb at the speed limit of the pedal assist then descend faster under gravity
    • xavieralexandre 5y ago
      I do it in practice! With light hills I climb at 25kph (Steeper hills, I can’t hit the limit), and go down at 30-35. Faster than the same length flat road along the lake.
    • darkwizard42 5y ago
      In San Francisco it can be quite brutal to go up hills even when its the shortest path to your destination. Oftentimes there are designed slow inclines for bike routes but an e-bike can change that pretty easily
  • jacquesm 5y ago
    Good point. Most bike map systems (even the dedicated ones, such as the Bosch Nyon) absolutely suck at the basics, taking the shortest route, keeping up with changes and so on. UI usually also is way below what's acceptable. Even a decade old TomTom does a better job.
• monkmartinez 5y ago
  I just built one with recycled laptop batteries... super fun to ride. It was a shit ton of work to do the batteries right, but I learned so much. Endless-Sphere is where my build thread is... My bike is 2004 Specialized mountain bike. Bought the motor from ebay and just bolted it on. The battery lives in a home sewn bag I made which I velcro strapped to the frame. I have gone about 35mph on it. Do not recommend super high speeds unless you are a capable bike rider. It looks like a mad max experiment. I just wanted to ride the thing and wire management is def an afterthought. I do not ride anywhere I can't take it inside with me even though I only have about $500 into it. Too much work to risk theft. So much fun to ride. Peeling out in dirt is thrilling on bicycle.
  • jacquesm 5y ago
    How much range do you have at that kind of assist level?
    • monkmartinez 5y ago
      I don't have assist. I went strait throttle and I have about 20 miles before I get voltage sag that is really annoying.
  • strombofulous 5y ago
    I've been thinking about doing the same thing but am worried it will explode on me. Are there any tips you have for starting out or mistakes to be sure to avoid? I was hoping to use this as a project to learn electricity with and it sounds like you did something similar.
    • monkmartinez 5y ago
      This is exactly what I did. I wanted to learn DC circuits and battery technology and I did that in spades. Batteries are really simple, just need to respect them. If you are going to use recycled batteries, I suggest you buy a Opus c3400 tester. Run them through a complete charge/discharge cycle to identify capacity and bad cells. If they get hot, take them out and properly recycle them at Autozone. Otherwise, write down the capacity on the cell. You can use repakr once you have 100 cells or so. I went with a 13s6p configuration for a 48volt system. I learned a ton from Micah Toll's DIY Lithium Battery book. Also, register at Endless-Sphere and start reading. Eventually the information will coalesce and you can start to buy bits and bobs. Take your time and don't rush buying right away... lots to learn.
• zwieback 5y ago
  I'm a year-round non-e-bike commuter in Oregon. I love e-bikes but until you can ride without getting soaked it'll be successful only part of the year in most of the US. We need something between the e-bike and golf-cart style EVs to fill the gap, some kind of sophisticated fairing or a 3 wheel format that isn't super dorky.
  • freeAgent 5y ago
    There seem to always be a ton of three wheel "car" companies close to making their vehicles a reality (Elio, anyone?). I hope that one of them succeeds eventually. I'd love to own one someday.
  • Robotbeat 5y ago
    Right. A lot of times you see 3 wheel vehicles instead of 4 for regulatory reasons. That’s silly. I agree it’d be super awesome to get car-like protection from rain and wind, better stability than a bike, but maintaining the very low mass (and therefore low inertia and low pedestrian risk) & low cost & low footprint & high efficiency of bikes.
    • hectormalot 5y ago
      I see these around the city: https://www.estrima.com/en/models/biro-winter/ https://www.estrima.com/en/models/biro-winter/ approximately 360kg, so def not as light as a bike, but not incredibly heavy either. 100km range.
      • Robotbeat 5y ago
        Too heavy to allow driving in the bike lane, IMHO. Needs to be a weight, speed, and footprint limit. But the number of wheels shouldn’t matter, regulation-wise.
        • _carbyau_ 5y ago
          So something like an electric recumbent e-bike, with four wheels. Closest thing I could find was " City Commuting Recumbent Quad " , 2nd from the bottom of this page: https://www.trikexplor.com/pages/trikexplor-recumbent-quad https://www.trikexplor.com/pages/trikexplor-recumbent-quad I still think they are a bit big but with smaller diameter wheels, removal of pedals for full electric kart experience (but otherwise speed limited as per usual e-bike) maaaybe they could be made small enough and lightweight enough to play with.
• gnarcoregrizz 5y ago
  Not surprised. They are a lot cheaper, easier to own than a car in cities, and are a lot of fun to ride. A loud contingent view them as a scourge, calling for ebikes to be banned, or otherwise licensed, registered, and insured, which would eliminate them as a common mode of transport. Most of the people I see riding them around here are high-school aged who probably don't care enough to deal with that. The next step up (moped) licensing requirements are more onerous than those of a car.
  • asdff 5y ago
    The moped licensing process definitely has a quieting effect on the amount of mopeds you see. I tried to get one thinking I would just take a little written test since I had a drivers license already. If the state was letting me drive a multiton vehicle it should be trivial for me to be allowed to drive a vehicle I could lean back up up with my own strength. Boy was I wrong. Several hundred dollars for the moped safety course ran by a private company sanctified by the state and I would have to rent their moped for the test, since it would be illegal for me to buy my own and practice with it since I don't have a moped license. Chicken and egg. It only works with cars because literally everyone has a car you can borrow and you don't have to go to driving school once you are an adult, but with mopeds and motorcycles you are beholden to these for profit schools that have lobbied themselves into regulatory permanence.
    • gnarcoregrizz 5y ago
      Yes, mopeds and scooters would have been a lot more popular if it weren't for those requirements. I'm sure the class is great for safety knowledge, but seems half irrelevant to electrics and mopeds since its taught on a heavy gas bike with manual transmission. I tried to register a popular but overpowered ebike with no success. The solution for now is to ride slow, slap some pedals on and say "yes officer, it's a class 3 ebike", and hope I don't get a ticket.
  • bagacrap 5y ago
    I mean, they do have a motor, so I don't see why they should be less regulated than other motorized vehicles. They're just as dangerous to the user as a moped.
• Robotbeat 5y ago
  They also don’t last as long (miles-wise, possibly time-wise as well?), so you may have the same person buying multiple bikes over time when the first one wears out or breaks or is stolen. Usually for electric cars, the vehicle enters the used market and doesn’t leave (for the junkyard) until 15-20 years and 200,000 miles later.
  • missedthecue 5y ago
    Are there any 20 year old electric cars?
    • truffdog 5y ago
      Probably some EV1s kicking around still- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1
    • Robotbeat 5y ago
      There are 20 year old used hybrid-electric cars, which work exactly the same way. Older Priuses are still around. I found several used 2002 Priuses (have to go to Japan to find earlier, I think). (Although Prius didn’t really start selling a lot until the 2004 refresh.) https://www.edmunds.com/inventory/srp.html?make=toyota&model=prius&year=2001-2001&inventorytype=used%2Ccpo&initialUrlPattern=make%2Fmodel%2Fyear&radius=6000 https://www.edmunds.com/inventory/srp.html?make=toyota&model... People regular go hundreds of thousands of miles on their used Priuses. I own a 2012 Leaf and a 2013 Tesla that I intend to drive for another 6-10 years. Both work great. (Also selling a 2012 Volt which is fantastic but doesn’t have enough seats so I’m selling.)
  • jzymbaluk 5y ago
    With regular maintenance and replacable batteries, I don't really see any reason an average eBike wouldn't last for many years
    • analog31 5y ago
      Most of my friends with e-bikes are already on their second e-bike. One issue is obsolescence. The newer bikes have bigger tires, better frame designs to accommodate the motor, better controls, more battery capacity, and so forth. They are purpose built as e-bikes, rather than conventional bikes with a motor and battery strapped on. Another is repair. Finding spare parts for the electronics is a headache. The hall sensor went out on one friend's bike motor, resulting in a new bike. Voltages and connector pinouts have to be matched unless you're a whiz with a soldering iron and can find documentation -- good luck. Conventional bikes had similar issues with both things, but there's a brisk global market for keeping older bikes working, and a sufficient supply of aftermarket parts for obsolete bikes are available in the US. And there's a lot of shared folklore on how to keep old bikes working, along with people who cobble bikes together from old parts and sell them. I can still maintain a 1963 Schwinn. All but one of my bikes are assembled from spare parts. That kind of secondary economy hasn't emerged for e-bikes yet.
• Someone1234 5y ago
  They're an absolute legal minefield though. For example around here you can get a ticket for using one on both cycle paths and also on roads with a 40 MpH speed limit. So you're more legally limited than both a cyclist but also a moped user. The biggest reason why they're popular here at all is that laws are selectively enforced. None of this is e-bike's fault of course, and the original Segway mostly failed because it too was banned from both footpaths but also many roads. Local city and states haven't evolved much to include new modes of transport outside the traditional (although some would call that a blessing as they don't want licensing/mandatory insurance/tax on e-bikes/e-scooters).
• neonate 5y ago
  https://archive.md/PpdzC https://archive.md/PpdzC http://web.archive.org/web/20211108112001/https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/08/business/e-bikes-urban-transit.html http://web.archive.org/web/20211108112001/https://www.nytime...
• kristjansson 5y ago
  One of the riskier aspects of e-bikes is the subversion of other road-user expectations. If I see someone on (what appears to be) a bike, feet on pedals, (apparently) coasting, a few decades of biking and driving lead me to expect that person to stop, or at least slow down. On an e-bike, though, they might maintain speed, or accelerate (!) without any change in attitude. No harder to judge than a motorcycle, of course, but it will take time for 'static person on bike' to connote 'might accelerate without warning!' to the navigational lizard brain.
  • soperj 5y ago
    For the most part I've found that drivers pay little to any attention to bikers as is, let alone to whether they're pedaling or not.
  • NoPicklez 5y ago
    I find this happens to me on a normal bike and its one of the main problems I deal with. A driver comes to a corner and looks to give way and sees a cyclist, depending on their judgement after their initial glimpse of me they might think I'm going slow only to realise I'm actually travelling much quicker. They pull out and I have to brake in order to not hit them. I think we've all done the same thing in a car as well as some point.
    • tonyedgecombe 5y ago
      I always try and make eye contact with the driver in that situation. If I can't then I assume they will pull out in from of me.
• kingsloi 5y ago
  My wife and I experienced eBiking around downtown Chicago (Divvy's eBike), and it literally re-ignited my love for biking, I really recommend it if you're visiting Chicago! The bike path next to the lake is beautiful & so fun! I think we biked about 15+ miles without breaking a sweat. We did it multiple times in the summer. I live across the border in Indiana, and have wanted to bike on the beach/dunes/trails for years. I just bought a Specialized Fatboy with a BBSHD motor, can't wait to get back out there.
• asdff 5y ago
  The biggest hurdles with ebikes are their high cost relative to a cheap used bike (nicer ebikes are in used car territory) and likelyhood of theft in an urban area. It would probably help a lot of commutes if people had a safe place to park their bike or ebike at a train station or business or school where it won't be stripped down for parts. Rental scooters and ebikes also suffer from this problem but it doesn't matter as much since the company already puts a shelf life of one month for these sort of vehicles and budgets for this turnover, but when its your own personal vehicle if you walk out of your home before work and its been stolen you might get fired from your job worst case scenario. A car is a much harder thing to steal but even then, catalytic converter thefts have been surging. If you get comprehensive auto insurance that crime is covered at least, but some people can only afford liability. Not sure what insurance can cover bike theft. Maybe a renters insurance policy?
  • akgerber 5y ago
    Renter's/homeowner's insurance covers one's property at home or away from it. One can get a rider for particularly valuable property. "Velosurance" is also an option for many with expensive cargo ebikes. Ebikes are a pretty new technology with very little used market so far, but that will change quickly— I already managed to dig one up for 50% off MSRP last winter.
    • asdff 5y ago
      I wonder what the batteries are going to be like in the used market. afaik this is the first part to see significant wear and also probably the most expensive part on the bike. Every few years I price out ebike kit builds to see if prices have come down and battery costs have remained pretty high. At least with a regular bike you can buy it in whatever neglected condition short of a compromised frame and pay not much at all at your local bike shop to tune it up into a great bike.
    • topkai22 5y ago
      Be careful there- renters will generally cover theft with a low enough deductible to make it worth it, but homeowners deductibles can easily be near or higher than the cost of the bike.
• hyperpallium2 5y ago
  Fuelled by the smartphone battery revolution. Like hydrofoil surfboards [1], one-wheel skateboards [2], electric paragliders [3]... what next!? 1. https://youtube.com/watch?v=i9yCe6ibhzU https://youtube.com/watch?v=i9yCe6ibhzU 2. https://youtube.com/watch?v=XNqOU4jx62I https://youtube.com/watch?v=XNqOU4jx62I 3. https://youtube.com/watch?v=BeayJZzaXjM https://youtube.com/watch?v=BeayJZzaXjM
  • bagacrap 5y ago
    bike lights have gotten immensely better over the last decade too, mainly due to better battery energy density
    • hyperpallium2 5y ago
      I think efficient LEDs are the hero there. Light bulbs are now led as standard, and even traffic lights are an array of leds.
    • jeffbee 5y ago
      Bike lights sold in the USA are, unfortunately, almost universally garbage, with circular flashlight beams that blind both the rider and everyone coming toward them. Battery and LED technology has not helped, it has made the situation worse. Lights like those marketed by NiteRider, that are multiple times brighter than car headlights and do not have cutoff optics, should be against the law. Fortunately, due to the size of the European market and the good sense of European bike regulations, virtually all factory-built e-bikes are coming with good headlight optics and usually a sensible mount point for the light, lower than the handlebars.
• DantesKite 5y ago
  Bikes are too dangerous. Read too many stories about people breaking their face. Not a fan. But if they change the way cities are designed, it can perhaps be a bit more safe.
  • quadrangle 5y ago
    Bikes are not that dangerous, they are less dangerous than cars. So, yes, the danger is infrastructure that puts bikes next to cars instead of giving bikes their own space.
    • topkai22 5y ago
      A cursory look at the data says that bikes are more dangerous than cars in the current environment. The US Bureau of Transportation Statistics says that in 2017 806/37473 fatalities were cyclists, or 2.2%, but the NHTSA data indicates that only 1% trips are by bicycle. That is a worse percentage than pedestrians (16.2 % of fatalities but 10.5% of trips) but substantially better than motorcycles (13.9% of fatalities but only 0.2% of trips!) I think you are trying to say these statistics would change if we created an entirely separate set of infrastructure for cyclists, but that is not the world we live in currently and can't be realized quickly in any sane and humane scenario. Ed- I'm a big electric bike fan, but we have to work within the world we live in, not the world we'd like to see. Right now using a bike or an e-bike for most tasks is more dangerous to the user than using an automobile. Doesn't mean we shouldn't use them or encourage them (after all they in the same ballpark as walking), but there is a lot of work to do to make them "safer" than cars. BTW- I don't think this was always the case- there were 5x as many fatalities per mile traveled in automobile in the 1960s then there are today, primarily due to the addition of vehicle safety features. I wonder what sort of active and passive safety features could be incorporated into cycles now? (1) https://www.bts.gov/content/transportation-fatalities-mode https://www.bts.gov/content/transportation-fatalities-mode (2) https://nhts.ornl.gov/person-trips https://nhts.ornl.gov/person-trips
      • quadrangle 5y ago
        Yeah, but the point is: It's not bikes that are dangerous, it's the biking situation with bikes mixed with cars. Of that fatality number for cyclists, how much of that is because of cars? I suspect near 100%. Almost every cycling fatality I've ever heard of is because of a cyclist hit by a car. So, it doesn't make sense to say that bikes are dangerous. It's the cars that are dangerous to cyclists. And the reason it's worse than pedestrians is because proportionally less of the time that pedestrians are out walking are they in conflict-zone with cars. It remains the case that cars are dangerous. It's not walking that's dangerous. Walking in car traffic is dangerous. On a side note, I think collisions between bikes and collisions with a bike and a pedestrian are less often fatal than collisions with cars. If I were to get hit by someone running a red light while I'm walking across the street, I'd prefer to get hit by a cyclist than by an SUV.
• 0xbadcafebee 5y ago
  E-bikes themselves won't revolutionize transportation, but micromobility will. If I ever get free time and a shop to work from, I want to build miniature go-karts so low-income disabled and elderly people can move around dense cities (lots of people can't ride bikes) that are also covered from the elements. But urban infrastructure isn't designed with this in mind, so even if I build them and people can afford them, they might not be practical. The hope is that e-bikes spurn a discussion towards more micromobility solutions to create a wider impact. https://www2.deloitte.com/us/en/insights/focus/future-of-mobility/micro-mobility-is-the-future-of-urban-transportation.html https://www2.deloitte.com/us/en/insights/focus/future-of-mob... https://www.forbes.com/sites/jenniferdungs/2021/07/19/why-micromobility-deserves-a-front-seat-in-the-infrastructure-discussions/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/jenniferdungs/2021/07/19/why-mi... https://highways.dot.gov/public-roads/spring-2021/micromobility-travel-mode-innovation https://highways.dot.gov/public-roads/spring-2021/micromobil...
• mulmen 5y ago
  I like that e-bikes are getting more people on two-wheeled transportation. I dislike that people are effectively riding motorcycles on dedicated bike paths. I especially dislike that companies get to profit from cluttering public spaces with bicycle and scooter litter. My hope is that long-term we get the e-bikes into the street where they belong and combine that with traffic calming measures to make scooter commuting feasible from a safety perspective.
  • danny_codes 5y ago
    As long as they're speed-limited to conventional biking speed I don't think this is much of a problem. E-bikes have similar mass to normal bikes so the forces are basically the same.
    • mulmen 5y ago
      They aren't limited to conventional biking speed. The rental bikes are close but they're still significantly faster than any human-powered vehicle on the bike path. A buddy of mine bought a Super73 which has speed limiting modes but operates purely on the honor system. In the "unlimited" mode it can do 28mph, without pedaling. In the "limited" mode it can still do 20, which is faster than most people are capable of for any extended period of time without a power assist. A Super 73 weighs 73lbs. That's double a regular bike. Moving at 2-4x the speed. Sure the rider is more than that but e-bike numbers are a lot closer to mopeds than bicycles.
      • RandallBrown 5y ago
        A friend of mine also has a Super73 and it's basically an electric motorcycle. I've passed people on Lime/Jump bikes while riding a single speed bike so I'm not sure that I'd say they're significantly faster. They can get up to speed much faster than a regular bike, which is really nice in traffic.
      • cptskippy 5y ago
        Using Super73 as an example is like complaining about how fast cars are and citing the Tesla Plaid or a Lamborghini Aventador as an everyday example. Super73 bikes are premium bikes that start at $1500 and can easily top $5000 with accessories. The highend RX cost $3500 base, has 750w motor that boost up to 1200w with an almost 1000 watt hour battery. Compare that to something reasonable like the RadPower Radmission that costs $999, has a 500w Motor that cuts out at 20 mph powered by a 500 watt hour battery. Just like regular bikes, ebikes come in all varieties and banning them all or relegating them to car lanes because a few should be classified as Mopeds isn't the answer. Some responsible ebike companies ship their top end bikes with VINs that require they be registered as Mopeds.
• blunte 5y ago
  Not a criticism of e-bikes, but I discovered an unexpected danger related to e-bikes which was much less an issue with traditional bikes: when driving a car, it's now much more difficult to judge how much time you need to pass a bike. I would say without hyperbole that it's much more dangerous now, to the cars and the bikes. I currently live in a Dutch village, so bikes and cars share rather narrow roads. The roads are narrow enough that two cars barely fit side by side. Normally when you're approaching a bike from behind, you know you only need 2-3 seconds to pass it. If there's oncoming traffic, you can easily judge if you have time to safely pass the bike, or if instead you should slow down and wait behind it. But now that bike which would normally be moving 10-15kph may actually be an e-bike doing 24-ish kph. That's quite a big difference. And if you're doing 50-70 as you approach, it's _very_ difficult to identify from a distance if that bike is going 12 or 24. It matters too, because it might take twice as long to pass as you would normally expect. Of course we can adapt and take the safe approach, always slowing to the bike speed before deciding to pass. But not only is that rather aggravating to go from 70 to 15 and then accelerate to pass, but it's wasteful on brakes and fuel. Also, if there's any oncoming traffic further down the road, you're much more likely to now be stuck behind that bike for an agonizingly long time. For the cyclist, they will now be more at risk of a passing car misjudging and pulling back into the lane, cutting the bike off. Tangentially related is the (new for cars) Tesla problem. That's when you're merging or needing to pass someone, and that someone is driving a Tesla and has a bad attitude. Historically it was pretty easy to judge if you had enough speed to pass someone; but now if that someone is driving a Tesla (or other new, performance oriented electric), they can decide to not allow you to pass by simply stepping on the throttle. They can so quickly accelerate that they can fill that spot which was safely available. If you're not paying close attention (being prepared for something like that), or if you have nowhere else to go (merging, lane ending), you're at great risk of accident. So in summary, electric vehicles are dangerous! I jest, but they do indeed present some new challenges that don't make them more welcome on the roads.
  • mint2 5y ago
    Do you mean it only takes the Tesla a very short time to close the gap between it and the car upfront? If so, won’t passing make one stuck behind the next car? What’s the point? To leave less of a gap between the car than the Tesla was doing or to continually pass all the cars?
• aeharding 5y ago
  I love my ebike! Insanely practical.
• wolverine876 5y ago
  What is the solution for weather? Major cities in the US can regularly be in the 30s F (~0-5 C) in the winter. Add to that a nice 10-15 mph wind in your face from riding. And especially add snow and ice - or worse, rain or freezing rain - and I don't see many people wanting to rely on an e-bike for unavoidable trips.
  • beebmam 5y ago
    As someone who lives in this part of the country and uses an ebike for nearly everything for the last 4 years, it can be pretty annoying. Especially when it's raining, as I'm going to get soaked and there's pretty much nothing I can do about it other than bring a change of clothes and find a place to warm up when I get to my destination. I use these to keep my hands warm while riding: https://cozywinters.com/shop/bar-mitts.html https://cozywinters.com/shop/bar-mitts.html I rarely use just the motor when I ride, and that helps keep me warm; I'm usually pedaling just as hard as if I were riding without a motor. The motor makes me much faster, and also a lot less of an annoyance to vehicles. :)
    • wolverine876 5y ago
      How do you ride safely on snow and ice, especially around traffic - one skid and the cyclist could be history.
      • beebmam 5y ago
        I use a fat bike, with studded tyres, with low inflation for extra grip. Haven't had a problem with any kind of terrain really, but I don't live in a place that gets super icy.
      • deanclatworthy 5y ago
        Much like cars, studded tyres are available for bicycles too. It’s a marginal cost. Only hassle is changing them, if you want to use the same rims.
  • mFixman 5y ago
• Ticklee 5y ago
  The problem with e-bikes is that they have been hampered down so hard by regulations. No throttle, only pedal assist, 250w motors maximum and no assist over 25km/h turns it from the perfect future-proof vehicle for inner-city use and suburban commuting into a weird hybrid that isn't fast enough to replace a light road bike, But also not strong enough to haul multiple saddlebags full of groceries up hills without breaking a sweat.
  • jay_kyburz 5y ago
    I hope that electric motor cycles will come down in cost and weight. A little faster than ebikes, and silent, but with all the safety features of a motorcycle. And registered. And requiring a license.
    • bradlys 5y ago
      Outside of ABS, I cannot think of any safety features a motorcycle has. Maybe traction control if you’re really concerned. Even then, ABS and TC is still optional. You’re not getting forward collision warning or anything like that on two wheels. Certainly not airbags or a cage to protect you…
      • jay_kyburz 5y ago
        Headlights, Brake Lights, Indicators, Mirrors.
  • tonyedgecombe 5y ago
    The Bosch CX motor in my bike is supposedly 250w. I don't believe that for one minute. Steep hills whilst I'm loaded with shopping are no problem at all. Around town the speed is fine although it would be nice to go a little quicker out of town.
• totetsu 5y ago
  I've noticed 40% of the e-bike share use here in Big City Japan is by food-delivery-app riders, And another 40% is by people going full speed down the foot path.
• gorgoiler 5y ago
  A major problem with electric pushbikes is that they are fast. A few days ago I was pulling out of a side road. I was turning to go into town such that I had to first cross a lane of traffic going out of town. I checked the crossing lane — nothing except for a guy in work clothes, no helmet, on a push bike. I checked the other direction and it was clear. I looked back towards town and got ready to start moving and… HEY! The guy on the bike who was maybe 100 yards away before was now right in front of me. I was moments from pulling out in front of, or more like on top of him. He must have been doing 25-30mph without breaking a sweat. It’s going to take a generation to re-learn our assumptions about what these vehicles mean. I wish, for their sake, they were speed limited to be like normal bicycles.
  • xenocyon 5y ago
    The ebikes I am familiar with have a governor such that the power assist turns off entirely above 20 mph.
    • gorgoiler 5y ago
      I’m fine with fast bikes as long as you signal “IAMA fast bike”. Overalls on a sit-up-and-beg do not do this effectively :)
  • tlamponi 5y ago
    In Europe, the speed at which an ebike motor may assist one is limited to 25 km/h (~ 15.5 mph): > pedal cycles with pedal assistance which are equipped with an auxiliary electric motor having > a maximum continuous rated power of less than or equal to 250 W, where the output of the motor > is cut off when the cyclist stops pedalling and is otherwise progressively reduced and finally > cut off before the vehicle speed reaches 25 km/h; -- REGULATION (EU) No 168/2013, Article 2, §2 (h) https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32013R0168&from=EN#d1e527-52-1 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL... Note that while the current regulation is valid since 2016 there was a (in this regard) very similar one since 2002 (https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=CELEX%3A32002L0024 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=CELEX%3A...)
• russellbeattie 5y ago
  Mark my words: Apple will launch an ebike. (Well, they will if they're smart.)
• qq4 5y ago
  I strapped a no-name Chinese kW hub motor kit and a nice battery on a $100 steel mountain bike I grabbed off Craigslist. I've ridden in downpours, through snow and ice you name it. The bike kicks butt and was way cheaper than a car, not to mention quiet and super easy maintenance. I'm not surprised they're getting more popular. I hope small electric vehicles take over.
  • edub 5y ago
    Tip for anyone else planning on doing a conversion, milesvp mentioned in a thread a few months ago that other parts of the bike may likely need to be upgraded as well (brakes, suspension, ect): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28270121 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28270121
    • qq4 5y ago
      I would suggest a steel frame with disc brakes. Suspension is a nice bonus. If it can carry a fat person it can carry a healthy person with battery and motor.
• ripvanwinkle 5y ago
  Adding a motor to a bike is like adding a GUI where previously you only had a command line interface. It increases the addressable market for bikes by at least 10X.
• jameshush 5y ago
  I’ve _loved_ using the publically available “YouBikes” since I’ve moved to Taipei. Because of the number of people using scooters cars pay a lot more attention then when I cycled in Los Angeles. Not having a car and being able to bike and take transit around the city has been the most significant value add to my quality of life in a long time.
• osigurdson 5y ago
  I am amazed by what they have been able to do with e-mountain bikes. The battery and motor are barely discernible anymore. Not for me as I prefer to pedal but impressive nonetheless. https://www.specialized.com/ca/en/s-works-turbo-kenevo-sl/p/199107?color=318020-199107 https://www.specialized.com/ca/en/s-works-turbo-kenevo-sl/p/...
  • foepys 5y ago
    Meanwhile forest rangers and other land owners are extremely angry because now even more people carve lines into delicate forest grounds. Even in places the mountain bikers couldn't have reached before.
    • bambax 5y ago
      At $20k apiece I don't think there are a lot of these around...
      • foepys 5y ago
        You can get them at $2k, no problem.
    • osigurdson 5y ago
      These are not 50HP/35KW motocross bikes. They instead turn a weak rider into a very strong one (~600W) while still providing a good workout. In my experience they are most often used by older people who otherwise would not be getting out at all.
  • bambax 5y ago
    That is indeed magnificent, but... $20k??!?
    • mFixman 5y ago
      A lot of people spend $20k to buy a low-mid range car. A top electric mountain bike seems like a better choice.
• tomcooks 5y ago
  Biking is something that should be basically impact zero and provide you with lifelong DIY skills through simple mechanics. Get a proper bike, not a glorified scooter which will inevitably cost you a hefty fine in terms of bills, maintenance, and pollution
• dirtyid 5y ago
  I'd be more open to $1000+ bikes if there's better anti-theft system/mechanism. Some sort of registered biometric/id/rfid find my bike system that makes stealing bikes unprofitable and recovery easier. Expensive bikes are just too much of a PIA to own, especially in a large city.
• cblconfederate 5y ago
  The bigger problem is how to adapt roads to multi-form-factors. There are going to be cars, trucks, bikes, tricycles, and other battery-cars for all kinds of needs, and separate lanes are not the solution, in fact they may make the problem worse. Roads are woefully stuck in the two-lane-car system
• known 5y ago
  Cars, not bikes are safer to travel;
• bluecalm 5y ago
  I am very excited about e-bikes although I don't own one yet. We need more people pushing for infrastructure and regulation changes. The biggest obstacle I see to mass adoption is bike theft problem. Until the crime is taken very seriously by the police which will likely need aggressive policing, setting traps and putting thieves in jail for many years (the police officer told me most thefts are committed by people already caught before) you will always live in fear of waking up in the morning to your main mean of transportation being gone unable to fulfill your professional/personal commitments. Until that starts changing I don't think there will be many takers for an e-bikes unless you already own a car.
• gerbilly 5y ago
  Every time I see a cycling story, I like to do a Cmd-F for the word 'rules' to see how many rules pedants there are in the thread complaining about how cyclists don't follow the rules of the road.¹ 1. Apparently, cyclists have to follow each and every rule of the road—rules which were designed with cars in mind—in order to be allowed to be on the road, or I should say even to be allowed to _live._
• camkego 5y ago
  Is anyone else concerned about ebike fire risk? EBike fires in NYC have doubled since last year. https://www.consumerreports.org/electric-bikes/how-to-prevent-e-bike-fires-a2493889574/ https://www.consumerreports.org/electric-bikes/how-to-preven... "E-bike ownership has skyrocketed in New York since the pandemic began, and with it, e-bike fires, according to the New York City Fire Department (FDNY). There have been 75 e-bike fires so far this year, which is on pace to double last year’s total, officials said. The fires have caused 72 injuries and three deaths."
  • Cycl0ps 5y ago
    I remember a similar spike when the "hoverboard" became big. I assumed back then the cause was cheap batteries turned out fast enough to meet demand, is the same thing happening here?