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Denuvo-Protected Games Rendered Unplayable After Domain Expires
- IYasha 5y agoWhen games required CDs to run - I had to apply No-CDs. Because CDs were fragile and expensive. When games started to require online DRM - I had to apply No-Steam patches. Because I am rarely online and value my privacy. Even though I legally bought those games, DRM causes so much inconvenience, so I'd actually donate to pirates for making my life easier. News like this prove me right.
- raxxorrax 5y agoThis should immediately make it legal to apply a crack in my opinion. I hope this is the case.
- krageon 5y agoYou don't own the game, you own a license to play it for however long the publisher wants. Whether or not it is legal really shouldn't matter, it should just be done as a matter of course for such games.
- harha 5y ago(Not a lawyer) You could probably sue in some jurisdictions, since a main aspect of the contract was not clearly advertised. If it has a buy button for game xyz you should assume you’re buying the game, not a license, even if the fine print says otherwise. For multiplayer games it would probably be ok to not perpetually run the servers, for single player the server isn’t an aspect that is crucial to the functioning. There may be an issue with how long ago the purchase was though.
- Spivak 5y agoThese kinds of arguments don't make any sense to me. You can't buy copyrighted works[1], only licenses to them. So Steam changes the button to "Buy License" and literally nothing changes. Are you happy now? Of course not. Because that's not the issue. The thing you have issue with is the terms of the license, not the license itself. [1] Okay fine you can but nobody who buys Skyrim thinks they are buying the rights to the whole Skyrim media property. But hey, I hope I'm wrong and you all owe me lots of royalties.
- harha 5y agoYou buy a copy of the game that is expected to run with the hardware defined - no end date. If they’d change the button and add an explanation that the license can be revoked at any time without notice or reason, then my argument would be invalid, but users might not be willing to pay as much any more. Edit: because they now openly know the significant terms and know they’re potentially being screwed. It’s already bad enough to pay full price without the ability to resell or pass on (not sure how games are right now, but that’s why I don’t use a kindle, along with it being tied to my other Amazon account and everything that goes with it)
- skyeto 5y agoWouldn't that depend on local laws? My assumption is that it would be covered by the recent EU court ruling that allows reverse engineering to fix bugs[0]. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28809559 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28809559
- Mindwipe 5y agoIt definitely would not be because that ruling does not overrule other bits of legislation, such as the prohibition against distribution or importation of tools to circumvent technical protection measure that all EU countries have.
- White_Wolf 5y agoit does if the software is not working(like in this case). "the legitimate purchaser of a program is entitled to decompile that program in order to correct errors affecting its operation" https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=f5b1193c-f423-4f96-bca5-03f5145ecf15 https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=f5b1193c-f423...
- krageon 5y agoThe main point here is to figure out if it no longer working is actually considered an error or whether it might be a planned feature.
- Mindwipe 5y agoNo, this is misinformation. That ruling just states that it is not a copyright breach to decompile a program to correct errors. It does not grant a carte blanche against other laws. DRM circumvention laws are separate offenses and are not overridden.
- skyeto 5y agoThe parent comments were talking about applying a crack to a legitimately obtained copy (which I assume the case covers) and not the act of distributing a cracked copy (which it definitely doesn't cover).
- csnover 5y agoIn the United States, the 2021 DMCA anti-circumvention exemptions do include this case[0]: > (17)(i) Video games in the form of computer programs embodied in physical or downloaded formats that have been lawfully acquired as complete games, when the copyright owner or its authorized representative has ceased to provide access to an external computer server necessary to facilitate an authentication process to enable gameplay, solely for the purpose of: (A) Permitting access to the video game to allow copying and modification of the computer program to restore access to the game for personal, local gameplay on a personal computer or video game console; However, these rules are currently renewed every three years, instead of being permanent, so it could not be the case in the future. [0] https://public-inspection.federalregister.gov/2021-23311.pdf https://public-inspection.federalregister.gov/2021-23311.pdf
- kmeisthax 5y agoFurthermore, the DMCA 1201 exemption process only applies to the act of applying a crack to a game, not the act of distributing it. So if a game's DRM fails the only legal way to make use of the exemption is to figure out how to break the DRM yourself - you can't distribute the resulting cracking tool to anyone without violating DMCA 1201, even if it has a lawful use.
- breakingcups 5y ago> However, these rules are currently renewed every three years, instead of being permanent, so it could not be the case in the future. That's a lovely meta-commentary on this situation. Not just the DRM domains expire, so do the laws that allow their circumvention when they do!
- paxys 5y agoIs it anyways illegal to "crack" a game you have purchased?
- JCWasmx86 5y agoIf I understand correctly: If I had been fast enough to buy this domain, I would be able to break Denuvo for a long time?
- dharmab 5y agoAt least until the registrar intervened per their abuse policy
- kuroguro 5y agoMost registrars have a grace period of 30-40 days, where the original owner can still reclaim it IIRC.
- JCWasmx86 5y ago> Following the failure to renew, the domain then went into a grace period but when that expired too, it appears to have been removed from DNS records.
- kuroguro 5y agoOh wow, didn't see that. How did nobody notice... Well there should still be a redemption and "pending delete" period [0]. I believe the original owner can still reclaim during those. [0] https://www.cloudflare.com/learning/dns/glossary/expired-domains/ https://www.cloudflare.com/learning/dns/glossary/expired-dom...
- jackorange 5y agoThat's right. After grace period it goes into a period called redemption where they can still get it back but it cost like $120. Source: Used to work at registrar.
- recursive 5y agoSo if I buy the domain, and give it the original DNS records for 45 days, then I could take control?
- mschuster91 5y ago> After sending a set of questions to two of our usual contacts at the company, we received a pair of automated emails stating that our correspondence was “undeliverable”, that the messages had been “bounced by administrator” and as a result had permanently failed. Wtf? What ever happened to journalistic principles like protecting your sources?!
- whoopdedo 5y agoThe emails were forwarded to "support@codefusion.technology"
- crtasm 5y agoThese are likely PR people, not anonymous sources.
- nitwit005 5y agoIn what way is saying emails bounced endangering their sources?
- Finnucane 5y ago"we tried to contact the company and couldn't for technical reasons" isn't revealing any big secrets.
- corobo 5y ago"We sent this amount of messages and they bounced with these specific error messages" would give a mail admin enough information to find the sources
- kayson 5y agoHas anyone ever done an a analysis on whether Denuvo (or DRM in general) is actually a wise investment of capital? I imagine it probably does have some impact on early sales in that it will prevent early customers from pirating to try it rather than buying it. But at the same time, you have things like Steam's return policy, the general dislike of DRM, and the publicity/image cost when something happens preventing everyone from playing the game. Not to mention that it seems inevitable these days that it either gets cracked or removed by the publisher anyway. I always wonder if the resources spent on Denuvo would be better spent on the game itself, or marketing the game, allowing the so-inclined to pirate it more easily at launch, but offsetting that with better sales overall driven by better reception, more word of mouth, etc.
- dageshi 5y agoIt's really only to protect the launch window. Most games will be discounted later on to the point where they're more or less affordable to everyone. But if someone pirates on release they'll never be inclined to buy at that lower price later on.
- novok 5y agoThis is the reason why I've mostly heard. TBH it would probably be a good ideas for vendors to remove DRM after a game has been out for a few years and has stopped getting patches for a year+.
- dageshi 5y agoI think a lot of them do. It's not uncommon to hear of devs removing DRM after a certain number of months. Especially nowadays where after a certain point they just want people to play the game ready for when the sequel comes out.
- shmde 5y ago> But if someone pirates on release they'll never be inclined to buy at that lower price later on. Just a personal anecdote. I have pirated a shitton amount of video games when I was young and didn't have money. You know what was one of the first thing I did after getting my salary ? I bought burnout paradise. I now own almost 1/2 of all the video games which I played as a pirate on steam and epic. And also people who generally take the pirate route to play video games, never ever generally pay for it. So expecting a pirate would give in to buy a video game which he thinks will definitely get cracked in the near future is not really a good idea.
- WmyEE0UsWAwC2i 5y agoDRM doesn't work in games, go to a torrent site to see all the failed attempts. 1. It costs money 2. It makes the product worse(slower, less portable,etc...) for your _ paying _ customers. 3. It doesn't work if the game is good. Just add a copyright note on the corner and make sure to have good distribution.
- dmix 5y agoAs others have mentioned it’s probably only helpful on release date or the first weeks. Ideally it should just automatically expired after x amount of time.
- kevinh 5y agoDenuvo has been very successful at protecting games in the launch window the past couple years. Last I heard there was only one person willing and/or able to crack it and their throughput wasn't high.
- fxtentacle 5y agoIt works to boost preorders and the crucial first week to get into sales charts.
- adolph 5y agoCommoditize your complements strikes back
- olliej 5y agoDid anyone buy it and replace with a server that just returns “you’re all good!”?
- mensetmanusman 5y agoAll of my original iPad games also don’t work because Apple refuses to let iOS devices downgrade to run software it was only just using.