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Given all the issues described in this thread, what is the upside of a game console (non-gamer)? Why not get a PC that you can automatically use for other thing

Given all the issues described in this thread, what is the upside of a game console (non-gamer)? Why not get a PC that you can automatically use for other things, can play games from any vendor etc (some of the issues mentioned in the thread). Are consoles cheaper “per transistor” or sth? If so, why? Is it about the vendor locking you in and charging more per game? That would seem even more skewed against the buyer: buy this pseudo-pc so we can sell you expensive, limited-choice software.

kingrolo 5y ago
I have a beast of a desktop PC but still find myself getting into console games far more than PC games. I think when I'm at my desk there's always this nagging feeling telling me I could be doing something more productive (code, music, learning) whereas on the sofa with a console I don't feel that.
madeofpalk 5y ago
Game consoles are appliances. This is either a pro or a con depending on your point of view.
SalimoS 5y ago
I am primary an iOS developer so I’m not interested in a MacBook + a PC setup So for gaming i choose an xbox console and for the 70$ Price I subscribed to xbox game pass ultimate (it’s 15$/mo) but I have access to all 1st party games day one with more than 200 games in the backlog which I don’t have time to play them
dayvid 5y ago
You have to use Windows or deal with weird compatibility hacks? I’m really looking forward to the Steam deck. It may not have the power of current-gen consoles, but it takes so many good things about current consoles and combines them together. Openness of a PC, not Windows, portable + docking, etc.
- GhettoComputers 5y ago
  Why do you need a weaker handheld? Nvidia moonlight can stream from PC already, played Halo on my iPhone with controller. Steam link or equivalent on TV works, and you can just subscribe to nvidia GeForce now if you want to be GPU free anywhere(all long as games are supported). The things I’d want to run from the deck will be served better on a laptop anyway. No thanks to 720p screen, low battery life, the weight of the device is too heavy for a handheld. A ryzen APU laptop from 2017 will do everything better.
  - dayvid 5y ago
    I agree that streaming is interesting, and I did it from a mac a few times, but you have to be online w/ a good connection in order to do streaming. I got a switch as a present recently and while I don't like Nintendo's eStore software, pricing and console power, I found myself just picking it up and playing randomly in off time much more than opening a laptop and getting a separate joystick or mouse to play a game. I only played it docked once. If the steam deck came out earlier I probably wouldn't have bought my g14.
    - GhettoComputers 5y ago
      If you have an nvidia card you can install moonlight and stream it to anything that the app installs to. I played Halo on iOS with a xbox one controller mounted to my phone (had to use 5Ghz instead of 2.4Ghz). If the gift was an older switch there’s tons of homebrew on it, it was hacked at the beginning since it was just a Tegra and nvidia shared all the hardware info to developers. I think it’s a fine piece of hardware as someone who used a hacked PSP for mostly emulating old Nintendo consoles. I ended up playing Pokémon rom hacks more than PSP games. It’s still a viable solution for gaming, the vita is technically better and paysw more games, as does the switch but the games I care about are solved on my current mobile gaming hardware, and if you want a better homebrew device some jailbroken older iPhone or Android with emulators connected to a wireless controller (or mounted) will be good enough. I saw a GameCube emulator on an S9 playing skyward sword pretty well. I think that streaming from a desktop is probably the best way to go, if you’re just playing at home it’s great, but if you’re mobile a dedicated device is better. The deck is too heavy for being a good handheld, and I have plenty of fun with older games: newer games might have better graphics but they’re often not as fun. The best CoD for me was BO2, and the best classic games don’t need good hardware, although I’d find very little reason to play some like SS2 on the go. The idea of playing computer games on the go is enticing but most require more attention, so streaming at home is the best compromise and it’s a solved problem with network streaming. I don’t have bias against AMD I just use nvidia and know the software for it. They might have a better solution.
factorialboy 5y ago
I agree with a sentiment. The only pro I can see at the moment for any console is the ability to place it in the living room for the family to share a casual gaming / entertainment experience. I do have a PC and, while not a "gamer", I enjoy hitting back on the old classics (Age of Empires 2 DE) from time to time. But that is a personal gaming experience, not to be shared with others in my home.
- hn_throwaway_69 5y ago
  Cost is also a valid factor. You're not going to get an affordable PC with comparable specs that run 4k games. At some point your PC might break even, but in the here and the now, a console makes sense. I'd only recommend a PC if you needed a decent graphics card for some other reason, like video editing. Another factor is you're far less likely to encounter modders. First thing I do is disable PC crossplay, if the game lets me.
shocks 5y ago
I already spend all day sat at my desk. I was a “PC gamer” for years, but consoles are better for plug and play group/sofa gaming.
- doikor 5y ago
  Nothing is stopping you from connecting a PC to your TV to play games on your sofa.
  - melff 5y ago
    yeah, I use my laptop as a mobile "console" with ps4 controllers. It's sometimes a PITA to find good games that with controller support and splitscreen, but they do exist
    - shocks 5y ago
      > It's sometimes a PITA to find good games that with controller support and splitscreen You’ve just demonstrated one of the reasons people get consoles.
      - melff 5y ago
        I know, what's wrong with that?
      - LinXitoW 5y ago
        How many games on console support splitscreen though? And you can always run this the other way around: All modern games that run on console and PC support controllers on PC. It's games that are very old that sometimes need a manual intervention. BUT consoles can't even play those games at all, so they basically have no controller support too, just with zero recourse.
  - shocks 5y ago
    You’ve missed the point. I don’t want to setup and configure yet another computer.
dajonker 5y ago
Convenience and cost for me. You get significantly better hardware for your money than a PC for the same price, while it is guaranteed that all games you can buy will run as the developer intended it. Just turn it on and play.
- rvz 5y ago
  > it is guaranteed that all games you can buy will run as the developer intended it. Exactly. It just works and saves time. Just buy the game, plug it in and play it. Simple. No 'swap this GPU inside step', 'installing additional drivers step' or 'incompatible hardware errors', or 'run it in 32 bit mode' etc.
  - elondaits 5y ago
    And it “just works” for many years, during which games get better looking, rather than having to turn down visual quality settings like on a PC five minutes after you bought it.
    - icemelt8 5y ago
      this is so true
- perth 5y ago
  Not sure how true this is, but I've heard that Sony's PlayStation division is taking a hard hit from scalping, since they sell the consoles at a loss and scalpers don't buy games. So I wonder if this trend of selling consoles at a loss will continue in future generations.
  - ratww 5y ago
    This doesn't make sense. Unless the scalpers are hoarding consoles or using them for a purpose other than games (space heater? overpriced Netflix machine?), the consoles will get in the hands of a game buyer.
haunter 5y ago
- Cheaper than a gaming PC. Of course it depends on your setup but for the same price ($500 MSRP) it would be hard to build a decent rig that plays the current gen new games perfectly - It just works. Games can have bugs but no hassle with installation, drivers etc. Games are more or less better optimzed because all the devs are working on the same hardware. No 100s different CPU and GPU. And one operating system - Exclusives. Studios are moving away from it to some extent but some games can still be only played on consoles - Home entertainment system. Youtube, Netflix, blurays etc. That being said I have a gaming PC and consoles too mostly becasue of the exclusives
- wongarsu 5y ago
  As for how it manages to be cheaper, there's two factors - At the beginning of the release cycle consoles are often sold at a loss, the money is made back from game sales (a $60 PC game costs $70 on console) - It's much easier to optimize for the known hardware configuration of a console than for "all PCs". Console hardware isn't high-end, the heavy lifting is done by heavy optimization of the games for the specific hardware
  - h0l0cube 5y ago
    That and consoles are basically monster DSPs, benefiting from high-throughput buses and parallel processing in a way that general purpose computers do not. Architecting from the ground up with this in mind means you can build something with cheaper silicon that performs much better for video games
  - josefx 5y ago
    > It's much easier to optimize for the known hardware configuration of a console than for "all PCs". Sometimes with significant quality downgrades, I remember texture quality of early Skyrim being abyssal because the whole game was console optimized. On the other hand there is cyberpunk which apparently didn't even reliably run on some of the consoles it was released on, no idea if it was because of released date agreements or if it was just a shitty money grab. As far as I understand the great upside of consoles in the past was that the manufacturers strictly vetted the quality of games you could release for them. There have been a few "scandals" where they obviously rescinded those controls to get a game out in time for a specific season only to have it crash and burn. Not sure how strict the controls are now, do they still vet the games strictly or is it just an app store with minimal quality checks?
user-the-name 5y ago
1. Game availability - lots of good games are not available on PC and will never be. 2. Hardware convenience - just a box you put next to your TV that works from the second you take it out of the packaging. 3. Software convenience - no need to deal with a million compatibility issues, buggy drivers, and all the problems that come with Windows and gaming hardware.
- melff 5y ago
  I disagree with #1. I never had issues finding great games for Windoze.
  - user-the-name 5y ago
    I did not say you can not find a great game for Windows. I said that some great games will never be available for Windows.
    - executesorder66 5y ago
      > I said that some great games will never be available for Windows. And even more great games will never be available for console so that point is invalid.
- LinXitoW 5y ago
  About number 1, most popular games by player numbers are PC exclusives, or not? LoL, Dota, CSGO(?), WoW, many MMOs, every older game that still runs on modern PCs, but not on new consoles. 2 I agree with. I'm hoping Steam Deck might make a big difference. 3 It's also gotten better in general, AND consoles seem to have more bugs than they used to, because things can just be patched now. Think Cyberpunk! Consoles are still better, I just think the difference is way smaller now.
BasilPH 5y ago
Some great games are playstation exclusive, so if you want to play those, you have no other option. But the main reason for me is the controller: It's just so much better than any other controller I've connected to a PC. The back triggers have excellent force feedback and in some games the vibrations tell you on what type of surface you're walking. This might not count for XBox users, which can use the controller on their PC. Also, I use a Mac, and I don't want to bother with setting up a gaming only Windows PC. If I factor in time spent, $500 is worth it.
- melff 5y ago
  > This might not count for XBox users, which can use the controller on their PC. I use PS4 controllers with my PC(linux), pretty sure they work with windows too. What controllers cannot be connected to a PC?
  - simiones 5y ago
    No idea about the PS5, but the PS3 controllers couldn't be used on Windows at least. PS4 controllers can be used, they work out of the box (USB only if I remember correctly?) - played lots of Dark Souls 3 with them on my PC.
    - jowsie 5y ago
      I used a DS3 and now a DS4 on my Windows PC for years. They work fine once you install a driver (doesn't even have to be third party, Sony released a DS3 Windows driver, but you can only get it by installing Playstation Now).
    - mhitza 5y ago
      I've used the PS3 controller on both Linux (out of the box) and Windows. And for the later it was true that I needed to download a separate application, and play a bunch of plug/unplug to get the controller recognized. But once that ritual worked out, I was ready to play.
- MegaThorx 5y ago
jayflux 5y ago
I think historically games consoles were seen as more social, something you would play with someone else in the room. Also I don’t think the target demographic would care much about it not being a pc (otherwise they would buy a pc). There’s a convenience of having a gaming box already set up, plus Playststion can have exclusive titles
soraminazuki 5y ago
I use PCs for gaming because many Playstation titles can also be bought on Steam for a cheaper price. However, I'd be terrified of using my gaming PC for purposes other than gaming because games in general have a poor reputation regarding security and privacy. Many games are outright hostile towards users, with kernel-level DRMs and "privacy policies" and whatnot.
Cthulhu_ 5y ago
I plop down on my couch, pick up the controller, and it just works. Whereas on PC I have to go upstairs, usually switch out my work cables and keyboard/mouse, power up the thing, then fire up my game. Definitely less comfortable than the console experience, but on the other hand, there's games that just don't work on consoles (strategy, text-heavy games, etc). At the moment I play Sekiro on the console and FFXIV on the PC. Both work on the other platform, but both are stronger on the ones I prefer to play them on.
- jrootabega 5y ago
  That's the possibility and the goal, but it seems that actually fulfilling it is not a very high priority these days: - I have to unplug and replug my headset (an official Xbox-compatible Astro headset) from my xbox about 33% of the time to get it to recognize my microphone, and this is a common complaint among owners. - When I try to play Minecraft with a friend, about 50-60% of the time we can't connect, and one or both of us needs to completely restart our console. - A recent heavily-promoted game, "The Ascent", was actually throwing video memory errors on Xbox consoles for a lot of people: https://old.reddit.com/r/XboxSeriesXlS/comments/p4losy/the_ascent_xss_out_of_video_memory/ https://old.reddit.com/r/XboxSeriesXlS/comments/p4losy/the_a... https://external-preview.redd.it/8wPHr4M1TrBuG8qon6YO2WkrM_VQKHLXR0dsKANhLgA.jpg?auto=webp&s=b4f664704b399cf981adc56ac64e020ac6a93009 https://external-preview.redd.it/8wPHr4M1TrBuG8qon6YO2WkrM_V... - One of Xbox's flagship games, Sea of Thieves, due to creative choices in the world lore, has tied respawn time to your console horsepower. So if you have an Xbox One, you now have to compete against Xbox Series S/X players, or people who have bought an external drive, who respawn much, much faster than you. And the game pushes you strongly towards PVP most of the time. And even if you avoid that, it's still not uncommon to die due to PVE circumstances and "lose" because of the unacceptably long respawn times. So rather than just enjoying the game, you're often cursing your inferior console, or spending time thinking about upgrading its storage just to be competitive. Newer console games often make you feel pressure to buy the newest console iteration when the older iteration is nearing its end, but Sea of Thieves was released years ago on the Xbox One. Now it's a litany of performance complaints whose answers are just "get a Series X." These days consoles are earlier and earlier becoming advertisements for their newer generations.
- 5y ago
theshrike79 5y ago
I did the math. For the price it would've taken me to upgrade my aging gaming PC to be able to play AAA games smoothly would've cost about the same as getting both a PS4 Pro and Xbox One X. That combined with the fact that I don't need to upgrade the consoles for years made the choice really simple. I still play a few games on my PC (Valheim, Factorio etc), but I'm hoping the Steam Deck will allow me to retire the old beast completely.
AltruisticGapHN 5y ago
Consoles are on their last run in my opinion. Valve has improved the Steam experience for Steamdeck, along with the Proton compatibility layer. Then they added "Great on Steamdeck" that will encourage devs to aim for better controller support. Now there are rumours Valve is working on a new "console". Imho once there is a "console" that is basically Steamdeck with builtin Steam store and a powerful GPU... in otherword a fully capable PC with desktop performance + the console user experience (or almost there) there is strictly no reason to buy a Sony/Nintendo console anymore.... especially since SEGA, Sony & al are porting more and more games to PC. I think we are all in a better place if those platforms converge, and Sony/Nintendo just focus on making great games. But it doesn't matter anyway, since if Valve can release an actually good "console" experience, with builtin Steam store... Nintendo and Sony have nothing more to offer bar a few exclusives.
- teamonkey 5y ago
  > Consoles are on their last run in my opinion. I've heard that for every console generation for the last 15 years. I don't think the arguments are any stronger now than they were in 2013.
  - AltruisticGapHN 5y ago
    Two big reasons why things are different: 1) with Valve's Steam Deck and the console-like experience for the Store on their Steam OS, PC GAMING is going to reach a broader market : you no longer need to install Windows, figure out driver updates or even how to use Windows, etc. in order to benefit from STEAM. edit: I have seen these type of gamers in the reddit discussions : they know about PC GAMING, they want a part of it, to enjoy it like their friends, but they never really got into the whole "building a pc" .. but now they are looking at the possibility finally of playing "PC games" on the Steam Deck (which is "good enough") ... not to mention the countless discussioons comparing the Switch and the Deck ... which ties right into #2 : 2) now you benefit from HUGE sales all year long. Every weekend games go on sale. Every holiday season there are huge sales. You might argue there are also sales on PS/Nintendo, but I don't think they are as good there? Plus, with Steam you get access to a huge catalog of "pc gaming", including so many smaller and super cheap games, many of which are actually quite decent. Basically, if Valve gets thing right with the Steam Deck OS and their rumored "console"... pc gaming is reaching into the console market which they could never do before. And over the years the PC could become a platform to converge to since it is now on handhelds (Steamdeck) and games developed for it can provide a console experience. And since SONY & al are already porting more of their games to PC, with controller support etc... their games are pretty much already "steam deck verified" and will be a premium experience on the future Valve console, so they've kinda already dug themselves into this "converging towards PC architecture" hole. Imho the only question left in this scenario, is whether Linux platform + PROTON will be able to support AAA games consistently... but it looks like Valve is confident about it.
48tdsic7 5y ago
I feel dirty having closed source games installed on my main machine, god forbid Windows. There is sooo much stuff going on in games these days, I don't want that attack surface/system intrusion where I keep my things. For 300€ I got a computer (PS4 Pro) dedicated to nothing else but gaming. And that's mostly just because I can help it, crave Skyrim and Fallout 4 once or twice a year, anyway. A worthy PC would cost me at least 800€. Right now, I'd say it's even impossible, because of the graphics card situation and APUs don't match the consoles. While games can look better on PC, you would also pay another PS4 in electricity costs to run a fancy system, over here.
cyxxon 5y ago
The target group for consoles is people who for one thing want the thing to just work, and not have to fiddle with Windows update, drivers for their hardware, maintain Steam/EGS/UPlay/Origin/Gog/itch.io/Humble, and also not pay ridonculous prices for the latest RTX3080 or whatever is the graphics card these days. And this piece of hardware IS also cheaper than the equivalent PC (except right now with the chip shortage where the PS5 is pretty overpriced)... add some exclusives to the mix, and customers buy this. The fact that a game might be 69.- instead of 59.- on release and for a much longer time without sales on this platform is then suddenly not so important anymore.
- GhettoComputers 5y ago
  What was the last console you used? A PS2? These talking points would have been relevant 20 years ago, but they sadly aren’t the same ease of putting in your game and playing. Consoles are constantly updating their firmware, have annoyingly large mandatory game updates for online play, require you to pay for online (PS3 was a treasure, PC is usually free it isn’t monthly/yearly subscription unless you’re doing an MMO usually), and they’re basically just slower crappier PCs. Whats the point of bringing up the most expensive GPU, is that what most gamers have? Most gamers on Steam have a varient of a 1050 or 1060, originally a $140, and a $250-$300 card from 2016. https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/ https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/ You ignored PC exclusives too.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> Given all the issues described in this thread, what is the upside of a game console (non-gamer)? Why not get a PC that you can automatically use for other things, can play games from any vendor etc (some of the issues mentioned in the thread). A console is cheaper, and can be left permanently attached to your TV; and the UX is more focussed than a general purpose PC, and optimized for controller as single input; you probably want a PC—probably a laptop—for other things, but unless you are going to buy a second PC for living room gaming, it isn't really a console substitute. > Are consoles cheaper “per transistor” or sth? Yes. > If so, why? Is it about the vendor locking you in and charging more per game? Actually, its about the vendor charging developers for access to you; at release AAA game prices are pretty similar console vs. PC (over time, I think PC game prices fall further and faster, but like films games live or die by earlier sales. If you are a buyer that tends to buy games long after release, then PC is much more attractive.)
l-albertovich 5y ago
To me the big plus is compartmentalizing, having my games in an isolated environment designed /optimized for that makes it easier to keep my computer safe because I no longer have to consider GPU driver availability / stability in Linux or even running Windows in my computer and that's a big plus.
nothis 5y ago
>Are consoles cheaper “per transistor” or sth? If so, why? Yes. Because of scale and optimization. But that's more of a side-effect than the real reason. It's mostly about having a device you can switch on and instantly play. No installing drivers. No picking parts. No incompatibilities. I've been building my own PCs for over a decade but I'm losing interest. It's such a hassle. I do 90% of my gaming on my Switch. Games I had on Steam for years and barely touched I suddenly play through in a week on the Switch. Why? Convenience.
fabian2k 5y ago
Playing on a TV is different than on a desk. Of course you can do both with a PC, but often you don't have your PC in the right place to play on the couch in front of your TV. There are console-exclusive games, depending on which types of games you like those exclusives can be extremely interesting. A PC is more expensive, almost always has been. If you need a desktop PC anyway, that might not matter much as you only need to factor in the better GPU for gaming. But with the GPU prices right now even a mid-range card is more expensive than a full next-gen console.
- apatheticonion 5y ago
  I'm with you on the benefits, but for those of us who successfully use a PC as a TV console, console exclusives are a real kick in the teeth. Bloodborne was released in 2013 and I am still waiting to play it.
  - maccard 5y ago
    > console exclusives are a real kick in the teeth. Console exclusives are often funded by manufacturers, so the game may not exist without the console.
    - apatheticonion 5y ago
      I am naive to the economics of it but I imagine they could also choose to act as publishers where they take a cut of sales on all platforms. I believe their objective is to entice people to buy the console on the basis that it has better games than the competition - not all together bad - but as someone who likes video games I would like them to find another way to compete.
      - ThatPlayer 5y ago
        To me the issue is that games aren't required to release on all consoles. Nor should they be required to be, because that goes against the whole idea of free market competition: if all games are required to be released on Xbox, what is stopping Xbox from hiking up their prices? Paying developers for exclusives is the opposite and is competition. "If you build it they will come", doesn't work. Look at the PS Vita, which very quickly stopped getting Sony support for games and languished. It shouldn't be up to all game developers to release on Vita, it is up to Sony to attract developers.
owaislone 5y ago
For me it is the ability to jump in, play for 30 mins and get out any time I want. The guarantee that everything that has a label of my console on it will work instead of my PC specs running it in a sub-optimal mode or not running at all. The fact that I don't have to worry about dealing with Windows or PC in general just to play some games but biggest of all, the ability to just pack it up and take it with me wherever I go is immense. That said, I'll be moving to a different city in NA soon kind of semi-permanently and am thinking of building a home PC for work+gaming.
- me_me_me 5y ago
  i have GTX 970, in drivers section of Nvidia its in legacy category. I dont really see the issue of suboptimal experience to worry about. Modern games autodetect optimal options to play out of the box.
  - Sebb767 5y ago
    You still have the problem of maintaining an OS, installing the games and possible downtimes when something breaks on the windows side. Plus, you still have to worry whether your hardware is sufficient to play it fluidly at all times. On a console, someone tested that for you and ironed out the edge cases. I'm not a console gamer, but I can see the appeal.
    - owaislone 5y ago
      Exactly. I used to play games all the time as a teenager on my PC and managing the PC was actually fun but since I started working, I just don't have the time to think about drivers, updates, viruses, anti-viruses, upgrading the graphics and all that stuff.
    - me_me_me 5y ago
      The Windows not working sound overly exaggerated as an issue. I think that's why I even replied to OP. Overblown issues as an argument for/against something. The whole pc vs console is like arguing what mode of transportation is better. Apples to oranges, use what you like and be happy about it.
SirHound 5y ago
I believe consoles are indeed cheaper because 1. they can be sold at a loss (whether or not they actually are now, they have been historically) as the manufacturers make that back on games 2. they bulk order components and package/market them as a single piece. I much prefer gaming on consoles because I can't be bothered with all the mental overhead that comes with PC gaming. Like most of us I don't have much time. I turn the console on and I'm instantly playing a version optimised for this hardware. More than happy, even eager, to pay for a version that doesn't have me forever tweaking graphical settings or have me thinking about what the latest advancements in RAM or whatever is. I'm actually looking forward to Steam Deck as ideally it'll give a much closer to console experience for some PC games I've missed out on. Edit: I was reminded by another comment that the couch experience of desktop gaming isn't for me either. If I can't operate the whole thing from a gamepad I'm not interested, and last time I gave this a go with a little Lenovo I used for emulation, this still wasn't possible.
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 5y ago
  I'm pretty sure you can tell steam to boot at startup and boot in bigpicture mode. That works for couch gaming. As for graphic settings is as easy as "do not di anything" (stuff is autoconfigured nowdays), or "set it to ultra then lower by one until it stops being bad for you", in case your pc is outdated. With a console you don't have that option, you would need to buy a new one, so that's not comparable.
  - vsl 5y ago
    For some value of “works”. Mostly theoretical. Been there, done that for a few years, bought PS4 out of sheer frustration. It’s a death by thousand cuts: problems in some games, occasional popups from whatever that can’t be dismissed without a mouse, Windows updates etc. had to have a keyboard and mouse nearby. Every time I started the machine after not playing for a few days, I ended up dealing with such things for the 30 minutes I had for gaming…
- deleted 5y ago
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- 5y ago
plif 5y ago
Accessibility. I can't game on PC anymore because of RSI when using mouse. Even for cross platform games, the console version usually has far superior controller support.
ImportOllie 5y ago
As a casual gamer, for me it's largely that i'm playing a game from the comfort of my sofa and using the big screen vs using a PC at the desk I've been working at all day. Plus there's still a culture of buying and selling hard copy console games which can make the net running cost next to nothing.
icemelt8 5y ago
Bring me games like Uncharted 4 and SpiderMan on PC then we'll talk.
rovek 5y ago
Cheaper for sure but the underlying complexity is completely hidden on consoles. There are many justifications for why PCs "can be simple" if you just buy pre-built, but that only solves your problem for an unspecified amount of time. With a console, you buy the latest one and play the games until there's a new one (in the case where money is no object). You never have to worry about settings or optimisation, it just works. You also know exactly when your hardware is out of date because there's a new generation console. Personally I'm a PC gamer, I currently run an RTX 3070 and I still wonder whether my CPU or RAM are limiting performance because I'm not getting the performance I expected (but wasn't guaranteed by any single vendor for my custom build). This is a problem I can solve, but it would be worth it to me to pay someone else to deal with it because I just don't have the time/inclination. Maybe I should buy a console...
somehnacct3757 5y ago
Your wording is a little unclear, I can't tell if you want to know what gamers see in consoles or what non-gamers see in consoles. A dozen ppl have answered the first one so I'll answer the second one. Since sony sells console hardware at a loss (only Nintendo doesn't do this), jailbreaking PS5 will create demand for the devices in clusters. Lots of research was done on PS3 and PS4 clusters where you could get GPU (and at one time CPU!) for cheaper than anywhere else. In modern times, I suspect people will mine crypto on them. If so, this is actually really bad news for gamers because it will put the hottest current gen console into the same bidding war with miners as GPUs have been in the past few years.
drexlspivey 5y ago
For me it’s the fact that you buy one and you know that all games will perform reasonably well for the next 5 or so years. A mediocre gaming pc now won’t be able to play the games that come out in 2027.
hnarn 5y ago
Any technological question has a car analogy, in this case a PS5 is kind of like a mid range sports car while a PC is… well, a custom car, so pretty much anything. So why buy a mid range sports car if you can buy an SUV for the same price that you can also go grocery shopping with, or a pickup that you can also haul stuff with? In the end it always comes down to the use case of the thing, and the people buying consoles are not just interested in playing games, they’re also not interested in the stuff a PC offers. As soon as you introduce choices, you introduce complexity. People buy consoles because they want to play games with the least amount of complexity involved, and they’re willing to sacrifice those choices because often they don’t even want them in the first place. Also, consoles often have some games that only come out for that console, so if you’re really interested in a game, sometimes buying the console is your only choice.
chalupa-man 5y ago
A few major factors, in roughly decreasing order of subjective importance: 1. Console games are initially more expensive, but you can sell them used when you're done, which isn't possible on PC. I regularly buy games for $100 (Australian pricing) and sell them a month or two months later for $80. (I'd rent them, but rentals don't exist anymore. I keep the ones I really really loved, but sell on most.) On PC, the same game might launch for $10-20 less, but that doesn't make up for not being able to get $80 back from every purchase. 2. Many games are unfortunately exclusive to a particular console, including many of the most popular franchises, e.g. Mario, Pokemon, Animal Crossing, and The Legend of Zelda are only on Nintendo consoles. If those are your favorite games, then none of the other factors really matter. And it's much more common for games to be exclusive to a console than exclusive to PC; there's virtually nothing these days that doesn't end up on the consoles, there are usually a couple of major blockbusters every year that don't make it to PC. 3. PC graphics card prices have absolutely skyrocketed due to cryptocurrency mining. I paid $130 for my graphics card seven years ago; the same model regularly sells for $150 on eBay now and when I look at replacing it, I can't find anything that significantly beats it for under $300. I looked at spending my tax return on a multi-part PC upgrade, but to match the performance of the new PlayStation I'd have to spend nearly double its price, and most graphics cards would require me to join a waiting list. (As it is, I went with neither and I'm waiting to see what happens next year.) 4. Formerly, playing games together with friends in the same room. Sadly, this is less and less well-supported on consoles with every year that goes by, but it used to be practically exclusive to them, and not something PC games ever implemented. This was especially important for kids (who make up a huge portion of the market and often have siblings to share the console with) and students (who would hold multiplayer game nights in dorms etc). It matters even for online multiplayer, though. You want the system your best friends have so you can all play together. And that's more likely to be one of the major consoles, and you'll rarely get your whole friend group to switch, especially if it's to a more expensive (at least upfront) option.
Bancakes 5y ago
Because a lot of people think Windows sucks and is too much to deal with. Linux drivers are a question mark. BSD isn't up to date enough. Plus exclusive titles. In the PS3 and early PS4 era, yeah you were missing out on PC gaming but nowadays consoles are plenty fast. Plenty fast indeed.
krageon 5y ago
> what is the upside of a game console No bullshit. PC's have compatibility issues, weird hardware edge-cases where you have to debug with multiple drivers to achieve stable performance (I wish I had only one of those per year of gaming...), etc. Quite simply consoles have issues sometimes, but broadly they are just far too small to really be items. Consistency is king when you just want to play videogames.
Fire-Dragon-DoL 5y ago
Consoles are substantially cheaper. I bought a new pc recently. Also, people don't need any of the "other stuff", so there is that. PC has the biggest game library though if you don't have boundaries (include emulators and stuff). You can't get anywhere close. And if stuff is broken, you can fix it. And if stuff is boring, you can cheat to the fun part (single player games!).
m-p-3 5y ago
I prefer PC gaming, but I can see the value of a system that works out of the box with fixed specs that the game developer has to take under account to ensure a playable experience.
wly_cdgr 5y ago
Same reason no one in their right mind used their desktop tower to watch DVDs on the living room TV
punkbuster 5y ago
Because modern PC gaming anticheat software is worse than malware. They analyze everything you every do on your PC. They scan and upload your personal files. If I have to have a separate machine for gaming to have some privacy I'm going to just buy a console.
slimbods 5y ago
Want to game? Sit on sofa, press 1 button, game.
deleted 5y ago
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stjohnswarts 5y ago
Consoles are cheaper, self contained, and get away from the "yer just a casual" bro'ness of computer gamers. It's not present everywhere, but it is quite common. Works out of the box with no need to spend hours configure for max performance. No RGB issues.
randomswede 5y ago
As a general rule, there's not much difference between one instance of "console X" and another instance of "console X", but the difference between "PC 1" and "PC 2" can be quite substantial. This usually gives a console a longer useful lifespan than a "gaming PC". As an example, I bought a PS4 late 2013 or early 2014 (honestly can't recall the exact date), and it was performing pretty well for games released, um, whenever I last bought a new game (late 2020, I think). I doubt that a PC from 2013 would have been able to play a "beefy" PC game released late 2020. I mean, I guess I could chase the forefront of PC hardware, just to support gaming. But, then I'd also have to dual-boot (it is still the case that a substantial amount of PC games need Windows to run on), and lock myself in to updating the PC hardware every 2-3 years, just to keep up with new titles. Meanwhile, my primary desktop was purchased before my PS4 and still runs linux admirably. Would I get more oomph if I upgraded it? Sure, more (much more) RAM and probably 2x - 4x the number of cores. But, I don't actually have to, it does what it needs to.
fulafel 5y ago
Gaming on PC generally means Windows, many of us don't want it on our computers, which would mean "getting a PC" would not result in a computer that you'd want to use for other things.
- account42 5y ago
  > Gaming on PC generally means Windows Whatnow. There are more games that run on Linux than anyone will have the time to play. Then there is also Proton. A lot has changed since 2010.

kingrolo 5y ago

I have a beast of a desktop PC but still find myself getting into console games far more than PC games. I think when I'm at my desk there's always this nagging feeling telling me I could be doing something more productive (code, music, learning) whereas on the sofa with a console I don't feel that.

madeofpalk 5y ago

Game consoles are appliances. This is either a pro or a con depending on your point of view.

SalimoS 5y ago

I am primary an iOS developer so I’m not interested in a MacBook + a PC setup So for gaming i choose an xbox console and for the 70$ Price I subscribed to xbox game pass ultimate (it’s 15$/mo) but I have access to all 1st party games day one with more than 200 games in the backlog which I don’t have time to play them

dayvid 5y ago

You have to use Windows or deal with weird compatibility hacks? I’m really looking forward to the Steam deck. It may not have the power of current-gen consoles, but it takes so many good things about current consoles and combines them together. Openness of a PC, not Windows, portable + docking, etc.

GhettoComputers 5y ago
Why do you need a weaker handheld? Nvidia moonlight can stream from PC already, played Halo on my iPhone with controller. Steam link or equivalent on TV works, and you can just subscribe to nvidia GeForce now if you want to be GPU free anywhere(all long as games are supported). The things I’d want to run from the deck will be served better on a laptop anyway. No thanks to 720p screen, low battery life, the weight of the device is too heavy for a handheld. A ryzen APU laptop from 2017 will do everything better.
- dayvid 5y ago
  I agree that streaming is interesting, and I did it from a mac a few times, but you have to be online w/ a good connection in order to do streaming. I got a switch as a present recently and while I don't like Nintendo's eStore software, pricing and console power, I found myself just picking it up and playing randomly in off time much more than opening a laptop and getting a separate joystick or mouse to play a game. I only played it docked once. If the steam deck came out earlier I probably wouldn't have bought my g14.
  - GhettoComputers 5y ago
    If you have an nvidia card you can install moonlight and stream it to anything that the app installs to. I played Halo on iOS with a xbox one controller mounted to my phone (had to use 5Ghz instead of 2.4Ghz). If the gift was an older switch there’s tons of homebrew on it, it was hacked at the beginning since it was just a Tegra and nvidia shared all the hardware info to developers. I think it’s a fine piece of hardware as someone who used a hacked PSP for mostly emulating old Nintendo consoles. I ended up playing Pokémon rom hacks more than PSP games. It’s still a viable solution for gaming, the vita is technically better and paysw more games, as does the switch but the games I care about are solved on my current mobile gaming hardware, and if you want a better homebrew device some jailbroken older iPhone or Android with emulators connected to a wireless controller (or mounted) will be good enough. I saw a GameCube emulator on an S9 playing skyward sword pretty well. I think that streaming from a desktop is probably the best way to go, if you’re just playing at home it’s great, but if you’re mobile a dedicated device is better. The deck is too heavy for being a good handheld, and I have plenty of fun with older games: newer games might have better graphics but they’re often not as fun. The best CoD for me was BO2, and the best classic games don’t need good hardware, although I’d find very little reason to play some like SS2 on the go. The idea of playing computer games on the go is enticing but most require more attention, so streaming at home is the best compromise and it’s a solved problem with network streaming. I don’t have bias against AMD I just use nvidia and know the software for it. They might have a better solution.

factorialboy 5y ago

I agree with a sentiment. The only pro I can see at the moment for any console is the ability to place it in the living room for the family to share a casual gaming / entertainment experience. I do have a PC and, while not a "gamer", I enjoy hitting back on the old classics (Age of Empires 2 DE) from time to time. But that is a personal gaming experience, not to be shared with others in my home.

hn_throwaway_69 5y ago
Cost is also a valid factor. You're not going to get an affordable PC with comparable specs that run 4k games. At some point your PC might break even, but in the here and the now, a console makes sense. I'd only recommend a PC if you needed a decent graphics card for some other reason, like video editing. Another factor is you're far less likely to encounter modders. First thing I do is disable PC crossplay, if the game lets me.

shocks 5y ago

I already spend all day sat at my desk. I was a “PC gamer” for years, but consoles are better for plug and play group/sofa gaming.

doikor 5y ago
Nothing is stopping you from connecting a PC to your TV to play games on your sofa.
- melff 5y ago
  yeah, I use my laptop as a mobile "console" with ps4 controllers. It's sometimes a PITA to find good games that with controller support and splitscreen, but they do exist
  - shocks 5y ago
    > It's sometimes a PITA to find good games that with controller support and splitscreen You’ve just demonstrated one of the reasons people get consoles.
    - melff 5y ago
      I know, what's wrong with that?
    - LinXitoW 5y ago
      How many games on console support splitscreen though? And you can always run this the other way around: All modern games that run on console and PC support controllers on PC. It's games that are very old that sometimes need a manual intervention. BUT consoles can't even play those games at all, so they basically have no controller support too, just with zero recourse.
- shocks 5y ago
  You’ve missed the point. I don’t want to setup and configure yet another computer.

dajonker 5y ago

Convenience and cost for me. You get significantly better hardware for your money than a PC for the same price, while it is guaranteed that all games you can buy will run as the developer intended it. Just turn it on and play.

rvz 5y ago
> it is guaranteed that all games you can buy will run as the developer intended it. Exactly. It just works and saves time. Just buy the game, plug it in and play it. Simple. No 'swap this GPU inside step', 'installing additional drivers step' or 'incompatible hardware errors', or 'run it in 32 bit mode' etc.
- elondaits 5y ago
  And it “just works” for many years, during which games get better looking, rather than having to turn down visual quality settings like on a PC five minutes after you bought it.
  - icemelt8 5y ago
    this is so true
perth 5y ago
Not sure how true this is, but I've heard that Sony's PlayStation division is taking a hard hit from scalping, since they sell the consoles at a loss and scalpers don't buy games. So I wonder if this trend of selling consoles at a loss will continue in future generations.
- ratww 5y ago
  This doesn't make sense. Unless the scalpers are hoarding consoles or using them for a purpose other than games (space heater? overpriced Netflix machine?), the consoles will get in the hands of a game buyer.

haunter 5y ago

- Cheaper than a gaming PC. Of course it depends on your setup but for the same price ($500 MSRP) it would be hard to build a decent rig that plays the current gen new games perfectly - It just works. Games can have bugs but no hassle with installation, drivers etc. Games are more or less better optimzed because all the devs are working on the same hardware. No 100s different CPU and GPU. And one operating system - Exclusives. Studios are moving away from it to some extent but some games can still be only played on consoles - Home entertainment system. Youtube, Netflix, blurays etc. That being said I have a gaming PC and consoles too mostly becasue of the exclusives

wongarsu 5y ago
As for how it manages to be cheaper, there's two factors - At the beginning of the release cycle consoles are often sold at a loss, the money is made back from game sales (a $60 PC game costs $70 on console) - It's much easier to optimize for the known hardware configuration of a console than for "all PCs". Console hardware isn't high-end, the heavy lifting is done by heavy optimization of the games for the specific hardware
- h0l0cube 5y ago
  That and consoles are basically monster DSPs, benefiting from high-throughput buses and parallel processing in a way that general purpose computers do not. Architecting from the ground up with this in mind means you can build something with cheaper silicon that performs much better for video games
- josefx 5y ago
  > It's much easier to optimize for the known hardware configuration of a console than for "all PCs". Sometimes with significant quality downgrades, I remember texture quality of early Skyrim being abyssal because the whole game was console optimized. On the other hand there is cyberpunk which apparently didn't even reliably run on some of the consoles it was released on, no idea if it was because of released date agreements or if it was just a shitty money grab. As far as I understand the great upside of consoles in the past was that the manufacturers strictly vetted the quality of games you could release for them. There have been a few "scandals" where they obviously rescinded those controls to get a game out in time for a specific season only to have it crash and burn. Not sure how strict the controls are now, do they still vet the games strictly or is it just an app store with minimal quality checks?

user-the-name 5y ago

1. Game availability - lots of good games are not available on PC and will never be. 2. Hardware convenience - just a box you put next to your TV that works from the second you take it out of the packaging. 3. Software convenience - no need to deal with a million compatibility issues, buggy drivers, and all the problems that come with Windows and gaming hardware.

melff 5y ago
I disagree with #1. I never had issues finding great games for Windoze.
- user-the-name 5y ago
  I did not say you can not find a great game for Windows. I said that some great games will never be available for Windows.
  - executesorder66 5y ago
    > I said that some great games will never be available for Windows. And even more great games will never be available for console so that point is invalid.
LinXitoW 5y ago
About number 1, most popular games by player numbers are PC exclusives, or not? LoL, Dota, CSGO(?), WoW, many MMOs, every older game that still runs on modern PCs, but not on new consoles. 2 I agree with. I'm hoping Steam Deck might make a big difference. 3 It's also gotten better in general, AND consoles seem to have more bugs than they used to, because things can just be patched now. Think Cyberpunk! Consoles are still better, I just think the difference is way smaller now.

BasilPH 5y ago

Some great games are playstation exclusive, so if you want to play those, you have no other option. But the main reason for me is the controller: It's just so much better than any other controller I've connected to a PC. The back triggers have excellent force feedback and in some games the vibrations tell you on what type of surface you're walking. This might not count for XBox users, which can use the controller on their PC. Also, I use a Mac, and I don't want to bother with setting up a gaming only Windows PC. If I factor in time spent, $500 is worth it.

melff 5y ago
> This might not count for XBox users, which can use the controller on their PC. I use PS4 controllers with my PC(linux), pretty sure they work with windows too. What controllers cannot be connected to a PC?
- simiones 5y ago
  No idea about the PS5, but the PS3 controllers couldn't be used on Windows at least. PS4 controllers can be used, they work out of the box (USB only if I remember correctly?) - played lots of Dark Souls 3 with them on my PC.
  - jowsie 5y ago
    I used a DS3 and now a DS4 on my Windows PC for years. They work fine once you install a driver (doesn't even have to be third party, Sony released a DS3 Windows driver, but you can only get it by installing Playstation Now).
  - mhitza 5y ago
    I've used the PS3 controller on both Linux (out of the box) and Windows. And for the later it was true that I needed to download a separate application, and play a bunch of plug/unplug to get the controller recognized. But once that ritual worked out, I was ready to play.
MegaThorx 5y ago

jayflux 5y ago

I think historically games consoles were seen as more social, something you would play with someone else in the room. Also I don’t think the target demographic would care much about it not being a pc (otherwise they would buy a pc). There’s a convenience of having a gaming box already set up, plus Playststion can have exclusive titles

soraminazuki 5y ago

I use PCs for gaming because many Playstation titles can also be bought on Steam for a cheaper price. However, I'd be terrified of using my gaming PC for purposes other than gaming because games in general have a poor reputation regarding security and privacy. Many games are outright hostile towards users, with kernel-level DRMs and "privacy policies" and whatnot.

Cthulhu_ 5y ago

I plop down on my couch, pick up the controller, and it just works. Whereas on PC I have to go upstairs, usually switch out my work cables and keyboard/mouse, power up the thing, then fire up my game. Definitely less comfortable than the console experience, but on the other hand, there's games that just don't work on consoles (strategy, text-heavy games, etc). At the moment I play Sekiro on the console and FFXIV on the PC. Both work on the other platform, but both are stronger on the ones I prefer to play them on.

jrootabega 5y ago
That's the possibility and the goal, but it seems that actually fulfilling it is not a very high priority these days: - I have to unplug and replug my headset (an official Xbox-compatible Astro headset) from my xbox about 33% of the time to get it to recognize my microphone, and this is a common complaint among owners. - When I try to play Minecraft with a friend, about 50-60% of the time we can't connect, and one or both of us needs to completely restart our console. - A recent heavily-promoted game, "The Ascent", was actually throwing video memory errors on Xbox consoles for a lot of people: https://old.reddit.com/r/XboxSeriesXlS/comments/p4losy/the_ascent_xss_out_of_video_memory/ https://old.reddit.com/r/XboxSeriesXlS/comments/p4losy/the_a... https://external-preview.redd.it/8wPHr4M1TrBuG8qon6YO2WkrM_VQKHLXR0dsKANhLgA.jpg?auto=webp&s=b4f664704b399cf981adc56ac64e020ac6a93009 https://external-preview.redd.it/8wPHr4M1TrBuG8qon6YO2WkrM_V... - One of Xbox's flagship games, Sea of Thieves, due to creative choices in the world lore, has tied respawn time to your console horsepower. So if you have an Xbox One, you now have to compete against Xbox Series S/X players, or people who have bought an external drive, who respawn much, much faster than you. And the game pushes you strongly towards PVP most of the time. And even if you avoid that, it's still not uncommon to die due to PVE circumstances and "lose" because of the unacceptably long respawn times. So rather than just enjoying the game, you're often cursing your inferior console, or spending time thinking about upgrading its storage just to be competitive. Newer console games often make you feel pressure to buy the newest console iteration when the older iteration is nearing its end, but Sea of Thieves was released years ago on the Xbox One. Now it's a litany of performance complaints whose answers are just "get a Series X." These days consoles are earlier and earlier becoming advertisements for their newer generations.
5y ago

theshrike79 5y ago

I did the math. For the price it would've taken me to upgrade my aging gaming PC to be able to play AAA games smoothly would've cost about the same as getting both a PS4 Pro and Xbox One X. That combined with the fact that I don't need to upgrade the consoles for years made the choice really simple. I still play a few games on my PC (Valheim, Factorio etc), but I'm hoping the Steam Deck will allow me to retire the old beast completely.

AltruisticGapHN 5y ago

Consoles are on their last run in my opinion. Valve has improved the Steam experience for Steamdeck, along with the Proton compatibility layer. Then they added "Great on Steamdeck" that will encourage devs to aim for better controller support. Now there are rumours Valve is working on a new "console". Imho once there is a "console" that is basically Steamdeck with builtin Steam store and a powerful GPU... in otherword a fully capable PC with desktop performance + the console user experience (or almost there) there is strictly no reason to buy a Sony/Nintendo console anymore.... especially since SEGA, Sony & al are porting more and more games to PC. I think we are all in a better place if those platforms converge, and Sony/Nintendo just focus on making great games. But it doesn't matter anyway, since if Valve can release an actually good "console" experience, with builtin Steam store... Nintendo and Sony have nothing more to offer bar a few exclusives.

teamonkey 5y ago
> Consoles are on their last run in my opinion. I've heard that for every console generation for the last 15 years. I don't think the arguments are any stronger now than they were in 2013.
- AltruisticGapHN 5y ago
  Two big reasons why things are different: 1) with Valve's Steam Deck and the console-like experience for the Store on their Steam OS, PC GAMING is going to reach a broader market : you no longer need to install Windows, figure out driver updates or even how to use Windows, etc. in order to benefit from STEAM. edit: I have seen these type of gamers in the reddit discussions : they know about PC GAMING, they want a part of it, to enjoy it like their friends, but they never really got into the whole "building a pc" .. but now they are looking at the possibility finally of playing "PC games" on the Steam Deck (which is "good enough") ... not to mention the countless discussioons comparing the Switch and the Deck ... which ties right into #2 : 2) now you benefit from HUGE sales all year long. Every weekend games go on sale. Every holiday season there are huge sales. You might argue there are also sales on PS/Nintendo, but I don't think they are as good there? Plus, with Steam you get access to a huge catalog of "pc gaming", including so many smaller and super cheap games, many of which are actually quite decent. Basically, if Valve gets thing right with the Steam Deck OS and their rumored "console"... pc gaming is reaching into the console market which they could never do before. And over the years the PC could become a platform to converge to since it is now on handhelds (Steamdeck) and games developed for it can provide a console experience. And since SONY & al are already porting more of their games to PC, with controller support etc... their games are pretty much already "steam deck verified" and will be a premium experience on the future Valve console, so they've kinda already dug themselves into this "converging towards PC architecture" hole. Imho the only question left in this scenario, is whether Linux platform + PROTON will be able to support AAA games consistently... but it looks like Valve is confident about it.

48tdsic7 5y ago

I feel dirty having closed source games installed on my main machine, god forbid Windows. There is sooo much stuff going on in games these days, I don't want that attack surface/system intrusion where I keep my things. For 300€ I got a computer (PS4 Pro) dedicated to nothing else but gaming. And that's mostly just because I can help it, crave Skyrim and Fallout 4 once or twice a year, anyway. A worthy PC would cost me at least 800€. Right now, I'd say it's even impossible, because of the graphics card situation and APUs don't match the consoles. While games can look better on PC, you would also pay another PS4 in electricity costs to run a fancy system, over here.

cyxxon 5y ago

The target group for consoles is people who for one thing want the thing to just work, and not have to fiddle with Windows update, drivers for their hardware, maintain Steam/EGS/UPlay/Origin/Gog/itch.io/Humble, and also not pay ridonculous prices for the latest RTX3080 or whatever is the graphics card these days. And this piece of hardware IS also cheaper than the equivalent PC (except right now with the chip shortage where the PS5 is pretty overpriced)... add some exclusives to the mix, and customers buy this. The fact that a game might be 69.- instead of 59.- on release and for a much longer time without sales on this platform is then suddenly not so important anymore.

GhettoComputers 5y ago
What was the last console you used? A PS2? These talking points would have been relevant 20 years ago, but they sadly aren’t the same ease of putting in your game and playing. Consoles are constantly updating their firmware, have annoyingly large mandatory game updates for online play, require you to pay for online (PS3 was a treasure, PC is usually free it isn’t monthly/yearly subscription unless you’re doing an MMO usually), and they’re basically just slower crappier PCs. Whats the point of bringing up the most expensive GPU, is that what most gamers have? Most gamers on Steam have a varient of a 1050 or 1060, originally a $140, and a $250-$300 card from 2016. https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/ https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/ You ignored PC exclusives too.

dragonwriter 5y ago

> Given all the issues described in this thread, what is the upside of a game console (non-gamer)? Why not get a PC that you can automatically use for other things, can play games from any vendor etc (some of the issues mentioned in the thread). A console is cheaper, and can be left permanently attached to your TV; and the UX is more focussed than a general purpose PC, and optimized for controller as single input; you probably want a PC—probably a laptop—for other things, but unless you are going to buy a second PC for living room gaming, it isn't really a console substitute. > Are consoles cheaper “per transistor” or sth? Yes. > If so, why? Is it about the vendor locking you in and charging more per game? Actually, its about the vendor charging developers for access to you; at release AAA game prices are pretty similar console vs. PC (over time, I think PC game prices fall further and faster, but like films games live or die by earlier sales. If you are a buyer that tends to buy games long after release, then PC is much more attractive.)

l-albertovich 5y ago

To me the big plus is compartmentalizing, having my games in an isolated environment designed /optimized for that makes it easier to keep my computer safe because I no longer have to consider GPU driver availability / stability in Linux or even running Windows in my computer and that's a big plus.

nothis 5y ago

>Are consoles cheaper “per transistor” or sth? If so, why? Yes. Because of scale and optimization. But that's more of a side-effect than the real reason. It's mostly about having a device you can switch on and instantly play. No installing drivers. No picking parts. No incompatibilities. I've been building my own PCs for over a decade but I'm losing interest. It's such a hassle. I do 90% of my gaming on my Switch. Games I had on Steam for years and barely touched I suddenly play through in a week on the Switch. Why? Convenience.

fabian2k 5y ago

Playing on a TV is different than on a desk. Of course you can do both with a PC, but often you don't have your PC in the right place to play on the couch in front of your TV. There are console-exclusive games, depending on which types of games you like those exclusives can be extremely interesting. A PC is more expensive, almost always has been. If you need a desktop PC anyway, that might not matter much as you only need to factor in the better GPU for gaming. But with the GPU prices right now even a mid-range card is more expensive than a full next-gen console.

apatheticonion 5y ago
I'm with you on the benefits, but for those of us who successfully use a PC as a TV console, console exclusives are a real kick in the teeth. Bloodborne was released in 2013 and I am still waiting to play it.
- maccard 5y ago
  > console exclusives are a real kick in the teeth. Console exclusives are often funded by manufacturers, so the game may not exist without the console.
  - apatheticonion 5y ago
    I am naive to the economics of it but I imagine they could also choose to act as publishers where they take a cut of sales on all platforms. I believe their objective is to entice people to buy the console on the basis that it has better games than the competition - not all together bad - but as someone who likes video games I would like them to find another way to compete.
    - ThatPlayer 5y ago
      To me the issue is that games aren't required to release on all consoles. Nor should they be required to be, because that goes against the whole idea of free market competition: if all games are required to be released on Xbox, what is stopping Xbox from hiking up their prices? Paying developers for exclusives is the opposite and is competition. "If you build it they will come", doesn't work. Look at the PS Vita, which very quickly stopped getting Sony support for games and languished. It shouldn't be up to all game developers to release on Vita, it is up to Sony to attract developers.

owaislone 5y ago

For me it is the ability to jump in, play for 30 mins and get out any time I want. The guarantee that everything that has a label of my console on it will work instead of my PC specs running it in a sub-optimal mode or not running at all. The fact that I don't have to worry about dealing with Windows or PC in general just to play some games but biggest of all, the ability to just pack it up and take it with me wherever I go is immense. That said, I'll be moving to a different city in NA soon kind of semi-permanently and am thinking of building a home PC for work+gaming.

me_me_me 5y ago
i have GTX 970, in drivers section of Nvidia its in legacy category. I dont really see the issue of suboptimal experience to worry about. Modern games autodetect optimal options to play out of the box.
- Sebb767 5y ago
  You still have the problem of maintaining an OS, installing the games and possible downtimes when something breaks on the windows side. Plus, you still have to worry whether your hardware is sufficient to play it fluidly at all times. On a console, someone tested that for you and ironed out the edge cases. I'm not a console gamer, but I can see the appeal.
  - owaislone 5y ago
    Exactly. I used to play games all the time as a teenager on my PC and managing the PC was actually fun but since I started working, I just don't have the time to think about drivers, updates, viruses, anti-viruses, upgrading the graphics and all that stuff.
  - me_me_me 5y ago
    The Windows not working sound overly exaggerated as an issue. I think that's why I even replied to OP. Overblown issues as an argument for/against something. The whole pc vs console is like arguing what mode of transportation is better. Apples to oranges, use what you like and be happy about it.

SirHound 5y ago

I believe consoles are indeed cheaper because 1. they can be sold at a loss (whether or not they actually are now, they have been historically) as the manufacturers make that back on games 2. they bulk order components and package/market them as a single piece. I much prefer gaming on consoles because I can't be bothered with all the mental overhead that comes with PC gaming. Like most of us I don't have much time. I turn the console on and I'm instantly playing a version optimised for this hardware. More than happy, even eager, to pay for a version that doesn't have me forever tweaking graphical settings or have me thinking about what the latest advancements in RAM or whatever is. I'm actually looking forward to Steam Deck as ideally it'll give a much closer to console experience for some PC games I've missed out on. Edit: I was reminded by another comment that the couch experience of desktop gaming isn't for me either. If I can't operate the whole thing from a gamepad I'm not interested, and last time I gave this a go with a little Lenovo I used for emulation, this still wasn't possible.

Fire-Dragon-DoL 5y ago
I'm pretty sure you can tell steam to boot at startup and boot in bigpicture mode. That works for couch gaming. As for graphic settings is as easy as "do not di anything" (stuff is autoconfigured nowdays), or "set it to ultra then lower by one until it stops being bad for you", in case your pc is outdated. With a console you don't have that option, you would need to buy a new one, so that's not comparable.
- vsl 5y ago
  For some value of “works”. Mostly theoretical. Been there, done that for a few years, bought PS4 out of sheer frustration. It’s a death by thousand cuts: problems in some games, occasional popups from whatever that can’t be dismissed without a mouse, Windows updates etc. had to have a keyboard and mouse nearby. Every time I started the machine after not playing for a few days, I ended up dealing with such things for the 30 minutes I had for gaming…
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plif 5y ago

Accessibility. I can't game on PC anymore because of RSI when using mouse. Even for cross platform games, the console version usually has far superior controller support.

ImportOllie 5y ago

As a casual gamer, for me it's largely that i'm playing a game from the comfort of my sofa and using the big screen vs using a PC at the desk I've been working at all day. Plus there's still a culture of buying and selling hard copy console games which can make the net running cost next to nothing.

icemelt8 5y ago

Bring me games like Uncharted 4 and SpiderMan on PC then we'll talk.

rovek 5y ago

Cheaper for sure but the underlying complexity is completely hidden on consoles. There are many justifications for why PCs "can be simple" if you just buy pre-built, but that only solves your problem for an unspecified amount of time. With a console, you buy the latest one and play the games until there's a new one (in the case where money is no object). You never have to worry about settings or optimisation, it just works. You also know exactly when your hardware is out of date because there's a new generation console. Personally I'm a PC gamer, I currently run an RTX 3070 and I still wonder whether my CPU or RAM are limiting performance because I'm not getting the performance I expected (but wasn't guaranteed by any single vendor for my custom build). This is a problem I can solve, but it would be worth it to me to pay someone else to deal with it because I just don't have the time/inclination. Maybe I should buy a console...

somehnacct3757 5y ago

Your wording is a little unclear, I can't tell if you want to know what gamers see in consoles or what non-gamers see in consoles. A dozen ppl have answered the first one so I'll answer the second one. Since sony sells console hardware at a loss (only Nintendo doesn't do this), jailbreaking PS5 will create demand for the devices in clusters. Lots of research was done on PS3 and PS4 clusters where you could get GPU (and at one time CPU!) for cheaper than anywhere else. In modern times, I suspect people will mine crypto on them. If so, this is actually really bad news for gamers because it will put the hottest current gen console into the same bidding war with miners as GPUs have been in the past few years.

drexlspivey 5y ago

For me it’s the fact that you buy one and you know that all games will perform reasonably well for the next 5 or so years. A mediocre gaming pc now won’t be able to play the games that come out in 2027.

hnarn 5y ago

Any technological question has a car analogy, in this case a PS5 is kind of like a mid range sports car while a PC is… well, a custom car, so pretty much anything. So why buy a mid range sports car if you can buy an SUV for the same price that you can also go grocery shopping with, or a pickup that you can also haul stuff with? In the end it always comes down to the use case of the thing, and the people buying consoles are not just interested in playing games, they’re also not interested in the stuff a PC offers. As soon as you introduce choices, you introduce complexity. People buy consoles because they want to play games with the least amount of complexity involved, and they’re willing to sacrifice those choices because often they don’t even want them in the first place. Also, consoles often have some games that only come out for that console, so if you’re really interested in a game, sometimes buying the console is your only choice.

chalupa-man 5y ago

A few major factors, in roughly decreasing order of subjective importance: 1. Console games are initially more expensive, but you can sell them used when you're done, which isn't possible on PC. I regularly buy games for $100 (Australian pricing) and sell them a month or two months later for $80. (I'd rent them, but rentals don't exist anymore. I keep the ones I really really loved, but sell on most.) On PC, the same game might launch for $10-20 less, but that doesn't make up for not being able to get $80 back from every purchase. 2. Many games are unfortunately exclusive to a particular console, including many of the most popular franchises, e.g. Mario, Pokemon, Animal Crossing, and The Legend of Zelda are only on Nintendo consoles. If those are your favorite games, then none of the other factors really matter. And it's much more common for games to be exclusive to a console than exclusive to PC; there's virtually nothing these days that doesn't end up on the consoles, there are usually a couple of major blockbusters every year that don't make it to PC. 3. PC graphics card prices have absolutely skyrocketed due to cryptocurrency mining. I paid $130 for my graphics card seven years ago; the same model regularly sells for $150 on eBay now and when I look at replacing it, I can't find anything that significantly beats it for under $300. I looked at spending my tax return on a multi-part PC upgrade, but to match the performance of the new PlayStation I'd have to spend nearly double its price, and most graphics cards would require me to join a waiting list. (As it is, I went with neither and I'm waiting to see what happens next year.) 4. Formerly, playing games together with friends in the same room. Sadly, this is less and less well-supported on consoles with every year that goes by, but it used to be practically exclusive to them, and not something PC games ever implemented. This was especially important for kids (who make up a huge portion of the market and often have siblings to share the console with) and students (who would hold multiplayer game nights in dorms etc). It matters even for online multiplayer, though. You want the system your best friends have so you can all play together. And that's more likely to be one of the major consoles, and you'll rarely get your whole friend group to switch, especially if it's to a more expensive (at least upfront) option.

Bancakes 5y ago

Because a lot of people think Windows sucks and is too much to deal with. Linux drivers are a question mark. BSD isn't up to date enough. Plus exclusive titles. In the PS3 and early PS4 era, yeah you were missing out on PC gaming but nowadays consoles are plenty fast. Plenty fast indeed.

krageon 5y ago

> what is the upside of a game console No bullshit. PC's have compatibility issues, weird hardware edge-cases where you have to debug with multiple drivers to achieve stable performance (I wish I had only one of those per year of gaming...), etc. Quite simply consoles have issues sometimes, but broadly they are just far too small to really be items. Consistency is king when you just want to play videogames.

Fire-Dragon-DoL 5y ago

Consoles are substantially cheaper. I bought a new pc recently. Also, people don't need any of the "other stuff", so there is that. PC has the biggest game library though if you don't have boundaries (include emulators and stuff). You can't get anywhere close. And if stuff is broken, you can fix it. And if stuff is boring, you can cheat to the fun part (single player games!).

m-p-3 5y ago

I prefer PC gaming, but I can see the value of a system that works out of the box with fixed specs that the game developer has to take under account to ensure a playable experience.

wly_cdgr 5y ago

Same reason no one in their right mind used their desktop tower to watch DVDs on the living room TV

punkbuster 5y ago

Because modern PC gaming anticheat software is worse than malware. They analyze everything you every do on your PC. They scan and upload your personal files. If I have to have a separate machine for gaming to have some privacy I'm going to just buy a console.

slimbods 5y ago

Want to game? Sit on sofa, press 1 button, game.

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stjohnswarts 5y ago

Consoles are cheaper, self contained, and get away from the "yer just a casual" bro'ness of computer gamers. It's not present everywhere, but it is quite common. Works out of the box with no need to spend hours configure for max performance. No RGB issues.

randomswede 5y ago

As a general rule, there's not much difference between one instance of "console X" and another instance of "console X", but the difference between "PC 1" and "PC 2" can be quite substantial. This usually gives a console a longer useful lifespan than a "gaming PC". As an example, I bought a PS4 late 2013 or early 2014 (honestly can't recall the exact date), and it was performing pretty well for games released, um, whenever I last bought a new game (late 2020, I think). I doubt that a PC from 2013 would have been able to play a "beefy" PC game released late 2020. I mean, I guess I could chase the forefront of PC hardware, just to support gaming. But, then I'd also have to dual-boot (it is still the case that a substantial amount of PC games need Windows to run on), and lock myself in to updating the PC hardware every 2-3 years, just to keep up with new titles. Meanwhile, my primary desktop was purchased before my PS4 and still runs linux admirably. Would I get more oomph if I upgraded it? Sure, more (much more) RAM and probably 2x - 4x the number of cores. But, I don't actually have to, it does what it needs to.

fulafel 5y ago

Gaming on PC generally means Windows, many of us don't want it on our computers, which would mean "getting a PC" would not result in a computer that you'd want to use for other things.

account42 5y ago
> Gaming on PC generally means Windows Whatnow. There are more games that run on Linux than anyone will have the time to play. Then there is also Proton. A lot has changed since 2010.