8 ms·

High Fructose Corn Syrup-Moderate Fat Diet Potentiates Anxio-Depressive Behavior

66 points by JPLeRouzic 5y ago

drawqrtz 5y ago
I'll summarize most modern food research for you: sugar bad
cheese_van 5y ago
The most unexpected effect of dropping sugars from my diet is the dramatic change (or sensitivity) to taste. Without sugars being predominant, now I savor many foods differently, especially fruit, and am enjoying it. Granted, it may simply be that hunger is seasoning the meal. However, the appreciation of flavor subtleties after discarding sugars is a pleasant and unexpected effect.
zemvpferreira 5y ago
...in mice. Edit: not to say I don't believe the effect might be present in humans but the significance of this study should not be overrated.
- SquibblesRedux 5y ago
  It is one thing to look for parallels in biochemistry, but I think it takes some healthy imagination to speculate on parallels in behavior and psychology. The findings describe: "...enhanced anxiogenesis, increased behavioral despair, and impaired social interactions..."
- pineconewarrior 5y ago
  The observed effect is caused by changes to gut microbiota composition. While there are differences in our flora compared to mice, the reactions happening at that scale should be the same. Whether those changes to human gut would cause these symptoms may be up for debate, but that does not make this irrelevant or useless in any way.
  - Nasrudith 5y ago
    Grapes are poisonous to mice as well. Dose makes the poison is very relevant here.
  - Ginden 5y ago
    Any diet change induces changes in gut microbiota. Eating tomatoes? Less Mucispirillum in rodents. Eating potato starch? More Rikenellaceae. Eating chicken? More Lactobacillus. It's result of simple natural selection - species better at digesting your food will reproduce faster.
- comeonseriously 5y ago
  ...however, does not mean it doesn't work similarly in hoomans.
  - zerocrates 5y ago
    Also doesn't mean that it does. More importantly probably, this test was a standard diet vs. a "junk food" diet, so it makes many more changes vs. the control than just swapping sucrose for HFCS. It doesn't (and wasn't intended to) really reveal effects of HFCS specifically. Obviously you could look more at the specific differences between the diets used here in future research.
robmerki 5y ago
Anecdotal, but I recently started a no-sugar diet just to see what would happen, and I saw an immediate improvement in my mood. I wake up feeling excited about my day instead of groggy. I also get less tired in the evenings after work. It's not perfect, but there's a clear difference. I'm not going back. Also, it made me realize how much sugar/HFCS/etc. is in everything. I have a feeling the next few decades of research will make us realize how horrible our diets are.
- shrimp_emoji 5y ago
  I'm the opposite. Normally, I never have simple carbs. I'm also usually tired throughout the day, but then I started having sugary stuff, which suddenly energized me again. I've been having a candy bar every day, and I haven't felt day-tired in weeks.
  - friedman23 5y ago
    Everyone is different, some people are good at processing sugar , others not so much. If I eat too much sugar i will get a crash in short order
  - kibwen 5y ago
    Have you tried any other kind of carbohydrate other than sugar? Perhaps ask your doctor to test if you have mild hypoglycemia.
  - ToxicMegacolon 5y ago
    How long have you been on the sugary diet? In my experience, sugar high is temporary, and the longer you persist with a sugary diet, the more adverse effects will show. I felt the same way with caffeine too. Of course everyone is different, and what you are doing may just be right for your body.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 5y ago
    Same here. I recently started sipping one to one and a half cans of soda during the work day, my work is half physical and on a PC, and my mood and energy levels are way more stable. When I remember I substitute dried figs and prunes plus water with a dash of juice or weak cordial to flavour, works just as well and probably way better for nutrients and fibre.
xxpor 5y ago
My first question is then has anyone demonstrated that type II diabetics tend to be less depressed than the typical person?
- JPLeRouzic 5y ago
  To prove that type II diabetics tend to be less (or more) depressed, isn't that such a question to be studied on patients who do not take any medication?
- zamalek 5y ago
  The mechanism may not be related to glucose. The authors even suggest that it may be due to changes in the gut microbiome.
imranhou 5y ago
Is it possible we are seeing it the wrong way, does anxio-depressive mood trigger you to go on sugar binge?
- colechristensen 5y ago
  It’s important to point out that anxiety and depression aren’t one condition with one cause, they’re easy to diagnose symptom clusters. What helps some people with them likely won’t help everyone as there are many different underlying causes. One cause has been suggested and researched that certain gut flora can manipulate your mood to cause you to feed them what they want. I.e. diet and mood can be codependent where the blame goes both ways.
  - imranhou 5y ago
    Interesting, but even in the case of your example, one can interpret that lack of sugars can cause mood change, but not consumption of it as is claimed in the post. To put it differently, causation is tricky to prove, presence of something causing an effect is quite different than absence of something causing it.
errcorrectcode 5y ago
HFCS often makes me food-obsessed, hungrier, and care too much about minutiae.
fdgsdfogijq 5y ago
Adding another datapoint, I went Keto, no carbs/no sugar, grass fed meat and vegetables, eggs, some dairy. I have never felt better in my whole life. I wake up with a clear mind. Throw in some exercise, and I have started to naturally cut back on my caffeine habit, something I have used heavily for ten years. I just wake up and no longer feel like I need three cups of coffee.
- wpasc 5y ago
  did you notice improvements at non-Keto low carb? Did you have to strictly be in Ketosis and under the ~50g limit to get the benefits? Curious about your anecdotal experience with Keto
  - fdgsdfogijq 5y ago
    I havent been so rigorous with measuring my diet intake. I have just naturally noticed that the more steak and veggies I eat, the better I feel. My mind feels sharper, and I have more energy. I will add that I do think some keto foods, like cauliflower pizza, dont seem to be that healthy/seem to not have the same noticiable effects as grass fed steak. It could be in my head, but at work I am able to easily complete all my daily tasks in a few hours. Its really opening up my life. I started spending a ton of money on food.
  - wil421 5y ago
    Personally I try to do a “light” keto and it was better than keto. Whenever I can stick to it I feel much better. The Fatburn Fix: Boost Energy, End Hunger, and Lose Weight by Using Body Fat for Fuel by Catherine Shanahan Was a great starting point and very informative. I agree with her and others that a keto all the time diet is not the best and more of a chore than a lifestyle.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
100011_100001 5y ago
Sugar and HFCS = bad. What about carbs? It seems that we are throwing out the baby with the bath water. Does anyone have any good studies about carb consumption not focused on sugar? Something like Keto diet (no carbs or sugar) vs Plant Based (lots of carbs, no refined sugar)
- timbit42 5y ago
  When you eat carbs, your body turns it into glucose, a sugar.
mrandish 5y ago
N=1 but... I was severely overweight for decades and went to a very low carb diet to lose weight. It worked. I lost a hundred pounds in 7 months and have stayed steady at my ideal weight now for over three years. A very low carb diet also dramatically reduces HFCF as well as most highly processed foods and it definitely had a dramatic effect improving my emotional and mental state too, even though I wasn't expecting it to. It's really helped my stay low
- p_j_w 5y ago
  >I lost a hundred pounds in 7 months Am I right to assume you were working pretty closely with your doctor on this?
  - mrandish 5y ago
    Yes, although at the time (> 3 yrs ago), my doctor did not approve of my very low carb (keto) approach as it was based on relatively new research that had come out in recent years. This was primarily because she simply wasn't familiar with it and it wasn't part of the HMO's recommended treatments for obesity. I proceeded anyway and kept her updated. After she saw my remarkable results, she became much more interested in VLC approaches, although she still doesn't recommend them for most of her patients because she feels the dramatic shift and rigor required to be successful are beyond most people's ability to stick with for more than a few months. I agree that some people find maintaining VLC long-term is too demanding. Although it hasn't been difficult for me to maintain, I may not be like most people.
    - p_j_w 5y ago
      That's nice to hear. Did you have regular blood work done? I'm only asking as I'm undergoing a bit of a shift in my own diet lately and am keenly interested in other peoples' experiences. Such drastic weight loss isn't in the cards for me, but it's interesting to hear about.
      - mrandish 5y ago
patriklundin 5y ago
Tastes like sadness
helph67 5y ago
Those who wish to live a long, healthy life should consider the Mediterranean diet. https://neurosciencenews.com/aging-blood-cognition-nutrients-10385/ https://neurosciencenews.com/aging-blood-cognition-nutrients...
08-15 5y ago
"For CD [control diet], the source of carbohydrate included corn starch, sucrose and maltodextrin. In contrast, the HFCS-MFD contained HFCS as the primary source of carbohydrate at a level of 26% of the diet by weight. The HFCS-MFD also was comprised of 38.6% kcal from fat while the CD sourced 10.3% kcal from fat. The sole source of fat in the CD was soybean oil while the HFCS-MFD contained multiple sources of fat including palm oil, corn oil, cottonseed oil, lard, beef tallow, and anhydrous milk fat in addition to soybean oil. Moreover, HFCS-MFD contained reduced levels of fiber and increased levels of sodium and cholesterol." This is not a study about (only) the effects of HFCS. Everything observed could equally be blamed palm oil, corn oil, cottonseed oil, lard, beef tallow, milk fat, fat in general, sodium, cholesterol, or lack of fiber. The only thing nothing can be blamed on is carbohydrates, including sucrose, because the control group received more of them. Oh, all all that in mice. Frankly, I don't think anything can be learned from a study that varies so many variables at once.
Bancakes 5y ago
John Yudkin [0] makes it very clear dietary sugar is conpletely unnecessary for human nutrition. Talking about sucralose, lactose, dextrose, and especially fructose. Potatoes and pasta raise your blood sugar aplenty, and resistant starches feed your gut bacteria for free. [0] https://www.amazon.com/Pure-White-Deadly-Sugar-Killing/dp/0143125184 https://www.amazon.com/Pure-White-Deadly-Sugar-Killing/dp/01...

66 points by JPLeRouzic 5y ago

I'll summarize most modern food research for you: sugar bad

The most unexpected effect of dropping sugars from my diet is the dramatic change (or sensitivity) to taste. Without sugars being predominant, now I savor many foods differently, especially fruit, and am enjoying it. Granted, it may simply be that hunger is seasoning the meal. However, the appreciation of flavor subtleties after discarding sugars is a pleasant and unexpected effect.

zemvpferreira 5y ago

...in mice. Edit: not to say I don't believe the effect might be present in humans but the significance of this study should not be overrated.

SquibblesRedux 5y ago
It is one thing to look for parallels in biochemistry, but I think it takes some healthy imagination to speculate on parallels in behavior and psychology. The findings describe: "...enhanced anxiogenesis, increased behavioral despair, and impaired social interactions..."
pineconewarrior 5y ago
The observed effect is caused by changes to gut microbiota composition. While there are differences in our flora compared to mice, the reactions happening at that scale should be the same. Whether those changes to human gut would cause these symptoms may be up for debate, but that does not make this irrelevant or useless in any way.
- Nasrudith 5y ago
  Grapes are poisonous to mice as well. Dose makes the poison is very relevant here.
- Ginden 5y ago
  Any diet change induces changes in gut microbiota. Eating tomatoes? Less Mucispirillum in rodents. Eating potato starch? More Rikenellaceae. Eating chicken? More Lactobacillus. It's result of simple natural selection - species better at digesting your food will reproduce faster.
comeonseriously 5y ago
...however, does not mean it doesn't work similarly in hoomans.
- zerocrates 5y ago
  Also doesn't mean that it does. More importantly probably, this test was a standard diet vs. a "junk food" diet, so it makes many more changes vs. the control than just swapping sucrose for HFCS. It doesn't (and wasn't intended to) really reveal effects of HFCS specifically. Obviously you could look more at the specific differences between the diets used here in future research.

robmerki 5y ago

Anecdotal, but I recently started a no-sugar diet just to see what would happen, and I saw an immediate improvement in my mood. I wake up feeling excited about my day instead of groggy. I also get less tired in the evenings after work. It's not perfect, but there's a clear difference. I'm not going back. Also, it made me realize how much sugar/HFCS/etc. is in everything. I have a feeling the next few decades of research will make us realize how horrible our diets are.

shrimp_emoji 5y ago
I'm the opposite. Normally, I never have simple carbs. I'm also usually tired throughout the day, but then I started having sugary stuff, which suddenly energized me again. I've been having a candy bar every day, and I haven't felt day-tired in weeks.
- friedman23 5y ago
  Everyone is different, some people are good at processing sugar , others not so much. If I eat too much sugar i will get a crash in short order
- kibwen 5y ago
  Have you tried any other kind of carbohydrate other than sugar? Perhaps ask your doctor to test if you have mild hypoglycemia.
- ToxicMegacolon 5y ago
  How long have you been on the sugary diet? In my experience, sugar high is temporary, and the longer you persist with a sugary diet, the more adverse effects will show. I felt the same way with caffeine too. Of course everyone is different, and what you are doing may just be right for your body.
- TheSpiceIsLife 5y ago
  Same here. I recently started sipping one to one and a half cans of soda during the work day, my work is half physical and on a PC, and my mood and energy levels are way more stable. When I remember I substitute dried figs and prunes plus water with a dash of juice or weak cordial to flavour, works just as well and probably way better for nutrients and fibre.

xxpor 5y ago

My first question is then has anyone demonstrated that type II diabetics tend to be less depressed than the typical person?

JPLeRouzic 5y ago
To prove that type II diabetics tend to be less (or more) depressed, isn't that such a question to be studied on patients who do not take any medication?
zamalek 5y ago
The mechanism may not be related to glucose. The authors even suggest that it may be due to changes in the gut microbiome.

imranhou 5y ago

Is it possible we are seeing it the wrong way, does anxio-depressive mood trigger you to go on sugar binge?

colechristensen 5y ago
It’s important to point out that anxiety and depression aren’t one condition with one cause, they’re easy to diagnose symptom clusters. What helps some people with them likely won’t help everyone as there are many different underlying causes. One cause has been suggested and researched that certain gut flora can manipulate your mood to cause you to feed them what they want. I.e. diet and mood can be codependent where the blame goes both ways.
- imranhou 5y ago
  Interesting, but even in the case of your example, one can interpret that lack of sugars can cause mood change, but not consumption of it as is claimed in the post. To put it differently, causation is tricky to prove, presence of something causing an effect is quite different than absence of something causing it.

errcorrectcode 5y ago

HFCS often makes me food-obsessed, hungrier, and care too much about minutiae.

fdgsdfogijq 5y ago

Adding another datapoint, I went Keto, no carbs/no sugar, grass fed meat and vegetables, eggs, some dairy. I have never felt better in my whole life. I wake up with a clear mind. Throw in some exercise, and I have started to naturally cut back on my caffeine habit, something I have used heavily for ten years. I just wake up and no longer feel like I need three cups of coffee.

wpasc 5y ago
did you notice improvements at non-Keto low carb? Did you have to strictly be in Ketosis and under the ~50g limit to get the benefits? Curious about your anecdotal experience with Keto
- fdgsdfogijq 5y ago
  I havent been so rigorous with measuring my diet intake. I have just naturally noticed that the more steak and veggies I eat, the better I feel. My mind feels sharper, and I have more energy. I will add that I do think some keto foods, like cauliflower pizza, dont seem to be that healthy/seem to not have the same noticiable effects as grass fed steak. It could be in my head, but at work I am able to easily complete all my daily tasks in a few hours. Its really opening up my life. I started spending a ton of money on food.
- wil421 5y ago
  Personally I try to do a “light” keto and it was better than keto. Whenever I can stick to it I feel much better. The Fatburn Fix: Boost Energy, End Hunger, and Lose Weight by Using Body Fat for Fuel by Catherine Shanahan Was a great starting point and very informative. I agree with her and others that a keto all the time diet is not the best and more of a chore than a lifestyle.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

100011_100001 5y ago

Sugar and HFCS = bad. What about carbs? It seems that we are throwing out the baby with the bath water. Does anyone have any good studies about carb consumption not focused on sugar? Something like Keto diet (no carbs or sugar) vs Plant Based (lots of carbs, no refined sugar)

timbit42 5y ago
When you eat carbs, your body turns it into glucose, a sugar.

mrandish 5y ago

N=1 but... I was severely overweight for decades and went to a very low carb diet to lose weight. It worked. I lost a hundred pounds in 7 months and have stayed steady at my ideal weight now for over three years. A very low carb diet also dramatically reduces HFCF as well as most highly processed foods and it definitely had a dramatic effect improving my emotional and mental state too, even though I wasn't expecting it to. It's really helped my stay low

p_j_w 5y ago
>I lost a hundred pounds in 7 months Am I right to assume you were working pretty closely with your doctor on this?
- mrandish 5y ago
  Yes, although at the time (> 3 yrs ago), my doctor did not approve of my very low carb (keto) approach as it was based on relatively new research that had come out in recent years. This was primarily because she simply wasn't familiar with it and it wasn't part of the HMO's recommended treatments for obesity. I proceeded anyway and kept her updated. After she saw my remarkable results, she became much more interested in VLC approaches, although she still doesn't recommend them for most of her patients because she feels the dramatic shift and rigor required to be successful are beyond most people's ability to stick with for more than a few months. I agree that some people find maintaining VLC long-term is too demanding. Although it hasn't been difficult for me to maintain, I may not be like most people.
  - p_j_w 5y ago
    That's nice to hear. Did you have regular blood work done? I'm only asking as I'm undergoing a bit of a shift in my own diet lately and am keenly interested in other peoples' experiences. Such drastic weight loss isn't in the cards for me, but it's interesting to hear about.
    - mrandish 5y ago

patriklundin 5y ago

Tastes like sadness

helph67 5y ago

Those who wish to live a long, healthy life should consider the Mediterranean diet. https://neurosciencenews.com/aging-blood-cognition-nutrients-10385/ https://neurosciencenews.com/aging-blood-cognition-nutrients...

08-15 5y ago

"For CD [control diet], the source of carbohydrate included corn starch, sucrose and maltodextrin. In contrast, the HFCS-MFD contained HFCS as the primary source of carbohydrate at a level of 26% of the diet by weight. The HFCS-MFD also was comprised of 38.6% kcal from fat while the CD sourced 10.3% kcal from fat. The sole source of fat in the CD was soybean oil while the HFCS-MFD contained multiple sources of fat including palm oil, corn oil, cottonseed oil, lard, beef tallow, and anhydrous milk fat in addition to soybean oil. Moreover, HFCS-MFD contained reduced levels of fiber and increased levels of sodium and cholesterol." This is not a study about (only) the effects of HFCS. Everything observed could equally be blamed palm oil, corn oil, cottonseed oil, lard, beef tallow, milk fat, fat in general, sodium, cholesterol, or lack of fiber. The only thing nothing can be blamed on is carbohydrates, including sucrose, because the control group received more of them. Oh, all all that in mice. Frankly, I don't think anything can be learned from a study that varies so many variables at once.

Bancakes 5y ago

John Yudkin [0] makes it very clear dietary sugar is conpletely unnecessary for human nutrition. Talking about sucralose, lactose, dextrose, and especially fructose. Potatoes and pasta raise your blood sugar aplenty, and resistant starches feed your gut bacteria for free. [0] https://www.amazon.com/Pure-White-Deadly-Sugar-Killing/dp/0143125184 https://www.amazon.com/Pure-White-Deadly-Sugar-Killing/dp/01...