24 ms·

Physics Student Earns PhD at Age 89

811 points by adharmad 5y ago

soheil 5y ago
I did a masters in physics when I was 24 and thought not getting paid a meaningful sum of money was incredibly frustrating. If my two remaining brain cells still function at 84 I'll certainly take on a PhD program.
parhamn 5y ago
This made me wonder (not that it matters, just curious): what are the biggest scientific discoveries made by older folks?
- Bobylonian 5y ago
  In modern days - most of them. It takes years and years to get to scientific breakthrough discoveries.
jzer0cool 5y ago
"in (1+1) dimensions" Why is the dimensions written in this way emphasizing +1
- panzerklein 5y ago
  One dimension of space and one dimension of time, probably
- gspr 5y ago
  Likely one of the dimensions behaves differently.
bambax 5y ago
My father earned a PhD in Political science (in France) when he was 70; his thesis was 500+ pages long. He retired early and spent all his time on it. It made him pretty happy. He's now 89 and while he hasn't done any new research, he's still intellectually and physically very active. Retirement is not the time to do nothing, it's the time to do what you really like. I can't wait.
billfruit 5y ago
I sometimes wonder, why there isn't a well defined pathway to get a PhD for work done through independent research.
- sungam 5y ago
  This is possible at Cambridge and certain other universities for graduates of those universities: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Philosophy_by_publication https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Philosophy_by_public...
  - billfruit 5y ago
    Interesting. I wish more Universities will start to offer this method.
zadwang 5y ago
This is so inspiring. I am a professor and an engineer. But still I think about physics and still hope to be a physicist.
tombert 5y ago
This is really cool. I'm 30 right now, and only just recently finished my bachelors and have been looking to get a PhD, but it's really hard to find a program that will let you work full time while doing it. It doesn't help that a part of me does sort of feel "too old" to do this sometimes. The PhD system in the US is really tailored around the assumption that you haven't entered the corporate world yet. Anyway, it's really inspiring that someone almost three times my age pushed himself through the program. I guess it's important to remember that you really shouldn't give up on your dreams.
- snake42 5y ago
  Where I work allows full-time employees to get their PHD and also gives some paid time to write your thesis. You can also propose research projects that align with your thesis topic. Edit: Also tuition is free. https://careers.gtri.gatech.edu/en-us/listing/ https://careers.gtri.gatech.edu/en-us/listing/
  - jrumbut 5y ago
    Wow I thought my employer (Massachusetts) had been generous just allowing it and paying for it, but time to write your thesis? That's a great opportunity and I hope someone goes for it.
    - snake42 5y ago
      Yeah it is a pretty nice place to work. Downside is that we are state employees, so salaries are lower than in industry (sometimes). I know several people I work with going this route right now, so some people do it!
- azhenley 5y ago
  Professor here. You definitely aren’t too old, but I would never take on a PhD student that wants to continue working elsewhere. A PhD is a full-time job. It took me 6.5 years and was hard enough with very little outside distractions.
SNosTrAnDbLe 5y ago
I am so jealous. I always wanted to do a PhD and was even accepted to a good program. Ended up not going as I could not gather up the courage to leave my job behind. I sincerely hope the experience getting the physics doctorate was all that he had imagined!
option 5y ago
I have phd in comp science and I plan on getting phd and doing research in astrophysics in my retirement
- soheil 5y ago
  Computational physics might be a nice intersection.
sriram_malhar 5y ago
What an incredible story. He is my pole star.
akomtu 5y ago
Imagine being referred to like that: "a blonde chemist", "a short philosopher", "a small-nosed mathematician" or "a brown physicist". Edit. Unless the title really meant "a student of the brown physics department has earned PhD at the age of 89".
- caddybox 5y ago
  Brown (university) physicist. No reference to his race.
  - genocidicbunny 5y ago
    I can't help but wonder if this headline was A/B tested and was found to be more 'engaging' specifically because of the same sort of reaction GP demonstrated. Edit: Interesting that the headline was changed from the original to no longer refer to Brown university at all. I genuinely wonder what prompted that.
    - silisili 5y ago
      Absolutely not. Americans don't call people 'brown.' We generally have white, black, and hispanic/latino. Anyone else we refer to by nationality, even incorrectly at times. If he were say, Indian, it would say Indian, not Brown.
      - genocidicbunny 5y ago
        If you are not familiar with Brown University, the first part of the headline is easily parsed differently. In English, adjectives tend to come in a certain order, with color generally being precedent to origin or qualifier. Therefore it would read as 'Brown' being an adjective describing Manfred Steiner, because the color 'Brown' generally comes before the qualifier 'Physics Student'. I am not suggesting that Brown University actually A/B tested this. As a university press site, they seem less likely to pursue that. But it would be naive to think that in the current media and political climate in the US, the mistaken interpretation of the headline would not be more surprising, and therefore more likely to grab attention. That's what A/B testing the headlines is for.
silisili 5y ago
This gives me hope. I'm not even half his age, but already worry about my brain going. When I was 17 I could do basic calculus in my head. Today I struggle to carry numbers in long addition problems. It already has me thinking about my career and future - it certainly is downhill from here. Then something like this happens and just makes me feel like a big baby. Hats off Mr Steiner.
- odyssey7 5y ago
  Don’t assume this is age. It could be a health condition beginning to manifest. Inflammation, vitamin deficiency leading to something bad, etc. Brain fog is a common symptom of many possible issues that may just be taking root. I would see a doctor and make sure I fixed any such issue I could.
  - oneepic 5y ago
    "could be." It could also be _completely normal_ losing one's ability over time by not practicing, and one could get it back by just... doing more practice. I'm in my mid-20's and I can't do mental math as well as I used to. Why? I don't spend as much time on it now, as I did when I was in school some years ago.
  - silisili 5y ago
    Thanks. Would love to have such a solution, but generally, doctor visits are normal. One giant difference I noticed is my speech. When I was younger I spoke very, very quickly, to the point it was off-putting to some folks. I've always thought people who speak quickly have a fast working brain, so to speak. Today I speak much more slowly and with more deliberation. Not good or bad, just different. Unfortunately I also find myself searching for a word much more often.
  - the_only_law 5y ago
    My worry is that is a more permanent health change due to bad habits.
- boomboomsubban 5y ago
boberoni 5y ago
As a university student in my last year of undergrad, I've been tempted to go work as a software engineer, even though I'm interested in doing research. The opportunity cost just seems too large to give up. Working as a SWE will allow me to earn a massive income in my 20s, during which I have few defendants and a lot of leisure time. While many of my peers are planning to do graduate school right away, I feel like my quality of life would simply be better by going to work in industry right now. With that said, I still love learning and diving deeply into topics like math and the history of science. I hope that I can one day retire off my savings as a SWE and return to graduate school (maybe in my late 30s or 40s). Has anyone done this before? Is there a stigma against graduate students (both Masters and PhD) who are not in their 20s?
- Bobylonian 5y ago
  The issue with software developers is that in some places there was no requirement to finish uni to work. Though, I would advise to finish studies asap, as later you won't have that much energy to share among work, relations, family, health and studies. I am planning to finish my course after a very long gap in my 40s. Not sure if I need to, but for the sake of finalizing it, so it does not bother me anymore. The long gap seems to bother my university at my home country more than it should bother me and they have still the same irritating procedures in place that I do not like... but why should others care about how you spend YOUR money and time?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- ghaff 5y ago
  Be aware that the meme that any developer with a pulse can make so much money they can retire in their 30s plays out very rarely. (ADDED: And if you're in that top tiny percent of success, will you really just drop out?) That said, you'll almost certainly make more money as an SWE than in academia. I do know someone who got a PhD in their early 40s or so in a pause from tech and is back in tech. I gather they thought it "OK" but basically are back doing the same thing in industry as before.
  - 5y ago
1vuio0pswjnm7 5y ago
The title should really be "Earns Second PhD at 89" This is not one of those stories about someone who "always dreamed of earning a PhD". This is an MD who already had a PhD in Biochemistry from MIT.
- anaganisk 5y ago
  I guess the goal of titles is make us click, not to give us a TLDR.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- MattSteelblade 5y ago
  I think it was his third doctoral degree.
- vipa123 5y ago
  More like "Retired Ivy League Biochemistry Professor earns second PhD at 89"
philzook 5y ago
Congratulations Manfred!
carrolldunham 5y ago
A PhD is research training. Is he doing to do research now, or is this just, like everyone seems to be treating it - a big trophy? Does anyone ever stop to question their credentialist mindset? I heard a character in a video game say indignantly "Excuse me, I have a PhD", and I thought, well, that's not realistic dialog because a PhDs is something you have done, not something that you 'have'. But then people here are treating it like attainment of literally a 'qualification' is an end goal in itself.
- iflp 5y ago
  > Steiner is not prepared to rest on his laurels. He is currently reworking part of his dissertation for publication and plans to continue his theoretical physics work. It definitely helps that he has a lifetime of research experience (in another field).
- eyeundersand 5y ago
  I don't see what's wrong with saying "I have a PhD". It's equivalent to what (I think) you're saying: "I have a few qualifications (pertaining to research)".
  - yuuu 5y ago
    Well, it's annoying and usually arrogant. Just like people who put Ph.D. in their LinkedIn or Twitter names. I don't care that you have a Ph.D., and if you flaunt it, I'll think you're dumber than someone with a bachelor's degree.
- wheelinsupial 5y ago
  The title is more accurately described as “Former Brown Professor of Medicine Returns to Brown to earn his Third Doctorate“ He had an MD, received a PhD from MIT, then went on to have a career as a researcher at Brown before taking up physics undergrad classes, and then continuing on to grad school. He is quoted in the article as saying he will continue to work on physics research.
  - 5y ago
PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago
I started a PhD in computational molecular biology. Dropped out after year and focused on software. Some years later, I applied to grad school for a CS PhD but was not accepted. The following year, I got a job in the CS department I had been rejected from, spent 4+ years there before leaving to help start a certain e-commerce company, then left that after a year to raise my daughter. Eventually back to software, and feel proud and happy about the libre software I've given to the world over the last 21 years of that part of my life. You might think after all that that a PhD would be an irrelevance. But actually, I do still sometimes dream of being able to follow that process, of drilling down and into a problem much more deeply than any other context would allow, of having my ideas constantly challenged by smart people, and of eventually (one hopes) coming to some sort of conclusion. I have many friends with CS PhD's, and to be honest, I don't think my life has been impaired in any way by the absence of the PhD, and maybe even enhanced. Still, it would be nice. And apparently, I've still got 30 years (at least) to get it done!
- coldcode 5y ago
  A college friend of mine intends to pursue a PhD in Chemistry once he retires (soon). I was accepted back in the early 80's but instead spent 4 decades doing programming. I decided to do art instead of going back to school. Sometimes I wish I had actually gotten the doctorate, but not enough to start over again.
FpUser 5y ago
What a sharp mind. Even though he was already recognized scientist the capacity to continue at this so advanced age is nothing but very respectable.
cg30e 5y ago
This is very inspiring. I too am young and been in the work force for several years, but unlike the other comments in this thread I am not settled down as an older student returning to school. I am willing to give up a high paying salary to return back to school as a PhD student and I am not tied down with a mortgage or anything else. I find mathematics simply too interesting to not learn at the highest level. Working in industry will simply not teach me the material I want to learn. I’m considering going back for either a PhD in Math or a math heavy PhD in CS. I read math textbooks for fun and worked with tutors to ensure my proofs are done correctly. I can do this for hours on end without external motivation. I taught myself a lot of math and can see myself doing this as a career. I want to do research. Most people my age say the same things in the comment sections in this thread (tied down to a mortgage, make too much money to return). I’m glad generalizations like these don’t apply to me and can’t wait to get back to school
- axiom92 5y ago
  PhD or not is one of those questions where if you find yourself asking it repeatedly (especially to others around you), the answer is no. You are exactly the kind of person who should be doing it! Good luck!
  - cg30e 5y ago
    Thank you!
- BeetleB 5y ago
  Some cautionary comments: Often your advisor in grad school will force you to focus on what they want rather than what you want to learn. This is less likely in a math department, but more likely in a CS one. As with everything, it all depends on your advisor. The PhD is replete with hoops you have to take that will be orthogonal to your goal of learning (e.g. spending a lot of your time doing HW on the professor's pet topic when taking a course). Someone I know who retired somewhat young (early 50's) enrolled in a PhD program because he loves to learn. He dropped out within two years because he found it fairly inefficient in learning the topics he wanted to learn about (he had a career on mathematical topics and can handle the math). Unlike younger folks, time is precious for him, and being efficient is more important to someone in their 50s than in their 20s. If all you care about is learning and not the actual piece of paper in the end, it may be more efficient to get a less demanding job and use your spare time studying what you want to study. Do it right and you'll make more money than you would as a student, and potentially learn more than you would in grad school. Finally, PhD is about research. Yes, you will learn a lot, but learning is not the goal. A lot of people drop out because they realized they loved learning much more than doing research, which will involve large chunks of your time being unproductive. If you plan to do a PhD, you will have to draw a line at some point and say "OK, those 10-100 things there that really interest me? I have to drop them forever so I can do research." If you opt not to do research, you can learn a lot more.
silisili 5y ago
Seriously? Brown was removed from the title, because one person took it in bad faith? Would Harvard have been removed from a title?
- throwamon 5y ago
  Just wait until Elon Musk founds Texas Institute of Technology and Science. https://nitter.net/elonmusk/status/1453954994546229253 https://nitter.net/elonmusk/status/1453954994546229253
- batman-farts 5y ago
  Yeah, when I saw Brown and PhD in the same headline, I assumed Brown University.
wanderingmind 5y ago
For all the fantasy here, let me remind you doing a PhD at an early age is one of the worst things you can do to your financial security (CS Ph.D being a major exception). It does not teach any employable skills, leads to a very high level of depression/anxiety compared to regular jobs and creates a huge opportunity cost where you miss out saving money early that has true compounding capability. The 2019 Nature survey has more information https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-03459-7 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-03459-7
- BeetleB 5y ago
  Previous discussion regarding your comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28679234 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28679234 (I'd repeat what I said before, but dang wasn't happy the last time I copy/pasted).
- lokimedes 5y ago
  I realize we’re mostly US-centric here on HN, but I have greatly benefited from my Physics Ph.D. Obtained in Denmark, while being paid $55000 a year throughout the study (standard rate for PhD students in DK). In Denmark most people will hold a state sponsored Masters degree, so it has served me well in the private industry as a differentiator. Combined with an MBA (yes, I hear the snuffing sounds guys) it has been the perfect package for senior engineering management.
- throw63738 5y ago
  PhD in information science or mathematics can be good investment. But it is bad idea to star career in academia.
  - amitport 5y ago
    It depends what you want to do and what you're good at. For example, if you're good in the academy thing and manage to get papers into top tier companies you will finish your PhD faster if you won't take breaks in the industry. If your PhD is on desrible topic (e.g., ML) there are plenty of academy and industry jobs waiting for you, regardless of your work experience.
eric4smith 5y ago
Very inspiring story indeed. But the first question resonating in my mind is... Why?? While what the student did is good. It serves as bad inspiration for too many people going to college these days just because they want to. And not because of a reason. If the cost of education was low, then I would not be opposed to it. But we all know stories of people who say they are "going back to school" for very minimal benefits later. So... at that age, we can see it as just an aspirational thing. But for younger people, it mostly (not all the time) sends the wrong message.
- IneficientPgons 5y ago
  STEM PhDs in the US pay no tuition and receive a stipend of typically $30K+ as well as health insurance and sometimes housing benefits. Honestly, "fuck it, do another Ph.D. in an adjacent field like math" is definitely in my "shit ran out of funds for ski trips because I retired too early and need some health insurance ASAP" quiver. > So... at that age, we can see it as just an aspirational thing. But for younger people, it mostly (not all the time) sends the wrong message. Like 20-somethings doing startup shit, PhDs can be terrible life choices or wonderful life choices. Outcomes are anything but uniform. If I had gone industry out of undergrad I might be making $150K by now. Instead I'm making close to 10x that doing exactly what I would be doing if I were an unemployed bum following my passion, all thanks to my phd. Lucky, sure. So are startup folks.
  - aijeq 5y ago
    > 30k This is the pay at top tier universities with extremely exclusive entry criteria. I was a former PhD student in CS. Washed out due to costs because I was self-funding. It was a local university and an R1 so not "bad" but also not ivy. I had absolutely no problem keeping up with class + research work while also working in industry as I have a lot of time on my hands and no family. I'm still a little sour about the whole thing because I had an incredible and flexible advisor. But costs are costs. The average STEM PhD student at my university made 13k, up to 20k if you took on summer teaching duties. You did get classes covered, but health insurance came out of your stipend and you still had to cover ancillary fees (gym, technology, etc). So you walked, after taxes, with anywhere between 10 and 12k. They offered me an RA position with my PhD admission that paid approximately 20k. Obviously I could not take it and afford rent. Perhaps if they offered a free dorm and healthcare I could consider choking down 12-15k for 3-4 years to get the pay off in the end. American PhD programs generally pay below poverty wages. Several PhD student colleagues of mine were on food stamps and lived with 1-3 other PhD students in the run down apartments adjacent to the university. It's abject suffering for the most part and direct-to-phd students often leave in their mid 30s burned out and 10 years behind other students in the workplace. I inquired with several universities about associate professor positions and even those have pretty insane post-doc requirements before being considered. You'll be 15+ years behind your cohort if you, god forbid, decide to go another 3 or so years in a slighty-above-poverty post doc position. At my university these paid around 40-45k, up to 60k for fairly exclusive positions. For what it's worth I make as much as the average industry CS PhD in a software engineering capacity after 10 years of service. I was pursuing it for pleasure and credentialing. It is not practical, unfortunately, to pursue a PhD as an American unless you are incredibly wealthy or on a visa program. It is not surprising many PhD students are foreign born. No one intends to get rich with a PhD, but it seems even comfort is a far flung dream.
almokhtar 5y ago
Absolutely gonna take it to the grave with him :D
kristian_io 5y ago
Audio version of this story is available here (10min): https://readtoo.me/article/88495a054f8e8f7b5098fad4b04a3fbf1b026402 https://readtoo.me/article/88495a054f8e8f7b5098fad4b04a3fbf1...
yread 5y ago
I half expected it to say he started it at 23
8589934591 5y ago
I'm in my late 20s and my wife works on her own startup (non tech tangible product). I wonder if there are others who have their spouses working and how the marriage factored into their decision to pursue a CS PhD. I'm not from USA. My primary concerns are her startup tanking, me being unavailable for her mental health and of course a steady income. I sometimes wonder maybe I should pursue a CS PhD after settling down financially by late 40s.
np1810 5y ago
Such a motivating life he has created... Please read the complete article and you'll find a very important advice in the end from this extraordinary human... ;) And "knowledge hunger" is real... :)
happy-go-lucky 5y ago
" ... I wanted to do something that keeps my mind active. But it is a matter of whatever you want to do. If you have a dream, follow it. Sometimes that dream may never have been verbalized, it may be buried in the subconscious. It is important not to waste your older days. There is a lot of brainpower in older people and I think it can be of enormous benefit to younger generations. Older people have experience and many times history repeats itself.” I see this as a way to protect one's health and sanity as one ages. Aging gracefully should be possible.
patrec 5y ago
Can anyone with a background in the area comment on how legit this is? I have no trouble believing that a spry research professor in a quantitative field could get a PhD in another quantitative field at a fairly advanced age, especially if they can bring existing skills that are underused in their new domain, but it would be genuinely amazing if someone in his 80ies were to successfully > set to work on a very difficult problem [...] the theory that he was doing involves techniques that are incredibly advanced and challenging to master in physics, a field were people are often considered over the hill past their 20ies, and an elite uni at that. The only reference to his work a quick google scholar search turned up is from 2012: https://meetings.aps.org/Meeting/MAR12/Session/Z26.1 https://meetings.aps.org/Meeting/MAR12/Session/Z26.1
thomasfl 5y ago
The love Steiner shows for science is heartwarming. Research in physics, or even astro physics, is perhaps the ultimate adventure these days.
hikerclimber1 5y ago
False news.
agustif 5y ago
‘My students never knew’: the lecturer who lived in a tent https://www.theguardian.com/education/2021/oct/30/my-students-never-knew-the-lecturer-who-lived-in-a-tent https://www.theguardian.com/education/2021/oct/30/my-student... I say fuck to those big name universities that pay peanuts to their most overexploited workers. === Edited: no absolutisms is better Do only a PhD if you're sure you can afford it.
- threatofrain 5y ago
  For many places, at least a masters or phd is the credibility doorway to do interesting work. By choosing not to get these credentials, you are also choosing to greatly narrow your opportunity in those lines of work. Being able to do the work is figuratively 30% of the battle, whereas having the opportunity to do it is the real challenge.
- CalRobert 5y ago
  College is expensive enough, and professors (but hey we call them "lecturers" so we can treat them horribly) earn nothing, but what is often forgotten is that a few years out of work can cost half a million bucks (or, for some people, far more) in opportunity cost.
- wesleywt 5y ago
  It depends. In America yes. Elsewhere. Get one.
- jinto36 5y ago
  A PhD is pretty much the minimum to be able to get much of anywhere in biology. In that context it's "don't do a postdoc, you'll never get a tenured position anymore".
- gspr 5y ago
  Ugh. I agree that the exploitative behavior of some big name universities is horrible, but I don't at all understand how you from this conclude that "academia is over", and in turn from that that people should avoid doing PhD. Your comment is 10/10 HN.
locallost 5y ago
Heh, my second attempt at a Bachelor's degree was at 27, and when I was done, a professor asked if I will also continue with the Master's degree at the same University. To that I said, no, I'm over 30 and too old :-). State of mind is a very important thing.
pelasaco 5y ago
I'm 40 now, since the pandemics started studying game development (BA), and talking with my colleagues via discord, I'm quite sure I'm the oldest one. On the bright side, I'm the one with the best notes, delivering always weeks before the deadline, despite the fact that I have a full time job and family. I think what the life taught me at best are time management and context switching. Love to learn and be productive. I'm looking forward to still be a student in the age of 90.
- id 5y ago
  >despite the fact that I have a full time job and family In another comment you wrote: >I dropped to 24 hours/week and have a much better life quality now, working 3 days per week. Still remarkable, so congrats, but full time normally is considered to be 40 hours / week, 5 days per week.
  - pelasaco 5y ago
    yes, you are right. I dropped from $$ job, which allows me to work in something different (I do volunteer work with kids, afternoon). I wake up every day 6:30, and limit my studies to 1 hour early in the morning (coding, when I'm most productive) and 1 hour late in the night (reading through materials).
BlasDeLezo 5y ago
now go up for tenure
selimthegrim 5y ago
The topic is legitimate but Marston hasn’t done much CMT in 20 years, Witten is considered to have made most of the advances in bosonization in the 80s although there was a paper out of Riverside a few years ago I remember that looked interesting with Mike Mulligan
HeavyStorm 5y ago
Sometimes I get scared that I'm too old and will not accomplish my goald It's nice to see that I probably have much more time than I think.
zahma 5y ago
This resonates with me as someone going back to get an MD. I’m early thirties and a new father. Working through undergrad science classes is kicking my ass, so I’m really impressed that this guy’s brain was plastic enough to handle the rigors of theoretical physics. Inspirational on many levels!
- vmception 5y ago
  That's because brain/synaptic plasticity in relation to learning was made up on the spot and simply repeated ever since. It's just been a convenient shared crutch to not learn new concepts after a certain age because the incentives are not strong enough for most people.
  - esond 5y ago
    Is this true? I would love to read further on this. For one reason or another, I am experiencing some concern lately about my waning ability to learn new concepts as I age, or at least my perception of it. I would be chuffed to learn that it was all just in my head (so to speak).
    - vmception 5y ago
      Its not known yet, and is only an idea. The only thing we do know is that there is a shared experience that seems to make learning new concepts difficult as we get older. We also have plenty of examples of people thriving when placed amongst people that prioritize learning those concepts and have the same lack of encumbrances as those other people. This points to willingness and lifestyle being the primary limiting factors over mental ability. The plasticity concept has only been extrapolated to learning ability but is as well studied as phrenology. It still needs studies to both prove and disprove it in relation to learning ability. People have shared experiences about supernatural deities, the similarity being that the prevalence of an experience doesnt provide answers about the experience.
      - Aromasin 5y ago
timwaagh 5y ago
I don't see the point of this. He's not going to have a long career as a researcher so why dedicate resources trying to train him to become one? In my country typically being one year behind already counts strongly against you.
hilbert42 5y ago
He has to be an absolute inspiration to everyone. What's more he's now 13 years older than the age at which Einstein died, so he's shown us that pursuing one's desires and goals at any age is a worthwhile venture. I wish him well and hope he continues to get enjoyment from his new expertise in physics.
krosaen 5y ago
Wow and I thought I was taking a risk spending a few years transitioning into robotics in my late 30s :) Awesome to see this, would like to think we all could undertake huge learning challenges at any point in life, and we'll probably need to if we care to keep contributing at a high level.
the_only_law 5y ago
I don’t even have a bachelors. I’ve been thinking about going back to school and pursing higher levels of education (research masters or PhD) twitch a mostly utilitarian fields and do industrial R&D work in a domain I’ve become interested in and my biggest worry is being “old” by the time I complete any graduate education (even though old in my case, would likely be mid-30s by the end if I start in the coming years). I might get crucified for being so jaded and cynical, but completed a PhD as part of some lifelong dream seems a bit empty to me. I think it’s fair to call him a physicist, but I just personally wouldn’t feel the dream was realized. Now, at the end of his life, he’s achieved the bare minimum and I doubt he will be able to do much more in the field or see the field develop.
- MetaWhirledPeas 5y ago
  > Now, at the end of his life, he’s achieved the bare minimum and I doubt he will be able to do much more in the field or see the field develop. I'm sure the fact that it would inspire others was not lost on him. Or perhaps he did it just so it would be done? There's enjoyment in the journey and the accomplishment.
- Loughla 5y ago
  How is completing a super advanced degree in a very specific field 'the bare minimum'? I feel like taking high school physics would be the bare minimum. Or maybe even getting a bachelor's. But a PhD? That's not the pinnacle of a career, by any means, but it's 100% the pinnacle of an educational experience. >my biggest worry is being “old” by the time I complete any graduate education There are 'old' students everywhere in college and graduate school. If you interact with any graduate students from not your home country, 99% of the time, they are much (read: a decade or two) older than the 'regular' student.
  - ryan93 5y ago
    Wrong. Most foreign PHDs are in their early to mid twenties when they start
    - 5y ago
et2o 5y ago
This is such a cool story. What a man. I wonder what his patients remember of him.
kevmo 5y ago
I've been planning to become a mathematician in my 70s for some time.
hellbannedguy 5y ago
A wealthy retired doctor who was interested in Physics his entire life as a hobby decided to go back to school. I bet he loved every minute of it. Does he need the PhD to make money--no. Does a wealthy man need something to stimulate his curiosities--yes. Most of us, even physics fanatics, would never get this opportunity. (I have noticed a lot of wealthy doctors whom turn a hobby into something more, but after they made their wad.)
ericmcer 5y ago
It's always comforting to know that if you weren't good enough to achieve anything of note in your youth you can always earn accolades for being stubborn enough to do it in old age. I have some unreasonable rock climbing goals that seem less likely but more impressive as I age. Also a 42 year old man just became the light heavyweight UFC champ last weekend so I guess... Keep fighting.
musicale 5y ago
Some Ph.D. programs are long, but this is excessive!
husamia 5y ago
I am 39 right now. Someday I want to earn an MD but it's hard to leave my full time job.

811 points by adharmad 5y ago

I did a masters in physics when I was 24 and thought not getting paid a meaningful sum of money was incredibly frustrating. If my two remaining brain cells still function at 84 I'll certainly take on a PhD program.

parhamn 5y ago

This made me wonder (not that it matters, just curious): what are the biggest scientific discoveries made by older folks?

Bobylonian 5y ago
In modern days - most of them. It takes years and years to get to scientific breakthrough discoveries.

jzer0cool 5y ago

"in (1+1) dimensions" Why is the dimensions written in this way emphasizing +1

panzerklein 5y ago
One dimension of space and one dimension of time, probably
gspr 5y ago
Likely one of the dimensions behaves differently.

bambax 5y ago

My father earned a PhD in Political science (in France) when he was 70; his thesis was 500+ pages long. He retired early and spent all his time on it. It made him pretty happy. He's now 89 and while he hasn't done any new research, he's still intellectually and physically very active. Retirement is not the time to do nothing, it's the time to do what you really like. I can't wait.

billfruit 5y ago

I sometimes wonder, why there isn't a well defined pathway to get a PhD for work done through independent research.

sungam 5y ago
This is possible at Cambridge and certain other universities for graduates of those universities: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Philosophy_by_publication https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Philosophy_by_public...
- billfruit 5y ago
  Interesting. I wish more Universities will start to offer this method.

zadwang 5y ago

This is so inspiring. I am a professor and an engineer. But still I think about physics and still hope to be a physicist.

tombert 5y ago

This is really cool. I'm 30 right now, and only just recently finished my bachelors and have been looking to get a PhD, but it's really hard to find a program that will let you work full time while doing it. It doesn't help that a part of me does sort of feel "too old" to do this sometimes. The PhD system in the US is really tailored around the assumption that you haven't entered the corporate world yet. Anyway, it's really inspiring that someone almost three times my age pushed himself through the program. I guess it's important to remember that you really shouldn't give up on your dreams.

snake42 5y ago
Where I work allows full-time employees to get their PHD and also gives some paid time to write your thesis. You can also propose research projects that align with your thesis topic. Edit: Also tuition is free. https://careers.gtri.gatech.edu/en-us/listing/ https://careers.gtri.gatech.edu/en-us/listing/
- jrumbut 5y ago
  Wow I thought my employer (Massachusetts) had been generous just allowing it and paying for it, but time to write your thesis? That's a great opportunity and I hope someone goes for it.
  - snake42 5y ago
    Yeah it is a pretty nice place to work. Downside is that we are state employees, so salaries are lower than in industry (sometimes). I know several people I work with going this route right now, so some people do it!
azhenley 5y ago
Professor here. You definitely aren’t too old, but I would never take on a PhD student that wants to continue working elsewhere. A PhD is a full-time job. It took me 6.5 years and was hard enough with very little outside distractions.

SNosTrAnDbLe 5y ago

I am so jealous. I always wanted to do a PhD and was even accepted to a good program. Ended up not going as I could not gather up the courage to leave my job behind. I sincerely hope the experience getting the physics doctorate was all that he had imagined!

option 5y ago

I have phd in comp science and I plan on getting phd and doing research in astrophysics in my retirement

soheil 5y ago
Computational physics might be a nice intersection.

sriram_malhar 5y ago

What an incredible story. He is my pole star.

akomtu 5y ago

Imagine being referred to like that: "a blonde chemist", "a short philosopher", "a small-nosed mathematician" or "a brown physicist". Edit. Unless the title really meant "a student of the brown physics department has earned PhD at the age of 89".

caddybox 5y ago
Brown (university) physicist. No reference to his race.
- genocidicbunny 5y ago
  I can't help but wonder if this headline was A/B tested and was found to be more 'engaging' specifically because of the same sort of reaction GP demonstrated. Edit: Interesting that the headline was changed from the original to no longer refer to Brown university at all. I genuinely wonder what prompted that.
  - silisili 5y ago
    Absolutely not. Americans don't call people 'brown.' We generally have white, black, and hispanic/latino. Anyone else we refer to by nationality, even incorrectly at times. If he were say, Indian, it would say Indian, not Brown.
    - genocidicbunny 5y ago
      If you are not familiar with Brown University, the first part of the headline is easily parsed differently. In English, adjectives tend to come in a certain order, with color generally being precedent to origin or qualifier. Therefore it would read as 'Brown' being an adjective describing Manfred Steiner, because the color 'Brown' generally comes before the qualifier 'Physics Student'. I am not suggesting that Brown University actually A/B tested this. As a university press site, they seem less likely to pursue that. But it would be naive to think that in the current media and political climate in the US, the mistaken interpretation of the headline would not be more surprising, and therefore more likely to grab attention. That's what A/B testing the headlines is for.

silisili 5y ago

This gives me hope. I'm not even half his age, but already worry about my brain going. When I was 17 I could do basic calculus in my head. Today I struggle to carry numbers in long addition problems. It already has me thinking about my career and future - it certainly is downhill from here. Then something like this happens and just makes me feel like a big baby. Hats off Mr Steiner.

odyssey7 5y ago
Don’t assume this is age. It could be a health condition beginning to manifest. Inflammation, vitamin deficiency leading to something bad, etc. Brain fog is a common symptom of many possible issues that may just be taking root. I would see a doctor and make sure I fixed any such issue I could.
- oneepic 5y ago
  "could be." It could also be _completely normal_ losing one's ability over time by not practicing, and one could get it back by just... doing more practice. I'm in my mid-20's and I can't do mental math as well as I used to. Why? I don't spend as much time on it now, as I did when I was in school some years ago.
- silisili 5y ago
  Thanks. Would love to have such a solution, but generally, doctor visits are normal. One giant difference I noticed is my speech. When I was younger I spoke very, very quickly, to the point it was off-putting to some folks. I've always thought people who speak quickly have a fast working brain, so to speak. Today I speak much more slowly and with more deliberation. Not good or bad, just different. Unfortunately I also find myself searching for a word much more often.
- the_only_law 5y ago
  My worry is that is a more permanent health change due to bad habits.
boomboomsubban 5y ago

boberoni 5y ago

As a university student in my last year of undergrad, I've been tempted to go work as a software engineer, even though I'm interested in doing research. The opportunity cost just seems too large to give up. Working as a SWE will allow me to earn a massive income in my 20s, during which I have few defendants and a lot of leisure time. While many of my peers are planning to do graduate school right away, I feel like my quality of life would simply be better by going to work in industry right now. With that said, I still love learning and diving deeply into topics like math and the history of science. I hope that I can one day retire off my savings as a SWE and return to graduate school (maybe in my late 30s or 40s). Has anyone done this before? Is there a stigma against graduate students (both Masters and PhD) who are not in their 20s?

Bobylonian 5y ago
The issue with software developers is that in some places there was no requirement to finish uni to work. Though, I would advise to finish studies asap, as later you won't have that much energy to share among work, relations, family, health and studies. I am planning to finish my course after a very long gap in my 40s. Not sure if I need to, but for the sake of finalizing it, so it does not bother me anymore. The long gap seems to bother my university at my home country more than it should bother me and they have still the same irritating procedures in place that I do not like... but why should others care about how you spend YOUR money and time?
deleted 5y ago
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ghaff 5y ago
Be aware that the meme that any developer with a pulse can make so much money they can retire in their 30s plays out very rarely. (ADDED: And if you're in that top tiny percent of success, will you really just drop out?) That said, you'll almost certainly make more money as an SWE than in academia. I do know someone who got a PhD in their early 40s or so in a pause from tech and is back in tech. I gather they thought it "OK" but basically are back doing the same thing in industry as before.
- 5y ago

1vuio0pswjnm7 5y ago

The title should really be "Earns Second PhD at 89" This is not one of those stories about someone who "always dreamed of earning a PhD". This is an MD who already had a PhD in Biochemistry from MIT.

anaganisk 5y ago
I guess the goal of titles is make us click, not to give us a TLDR.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
MattSteelblade 5y ago
I think it was his third doctoral degree.
vipa123 5y ago
More like "Retired Ivy League Biochemistry Professor earns second PhD at 89"

philzook 5y ago

Congratulations Manfred!

carrolldunham 5y ago

A PhD is research training. Is he doing to do research now, or is this just, like everyone seems to be treating it - a big trophy? Does anyone ever stop to question their credentialist mindset? I heard a character in a video game say indignantly "Excuse me, I have a PhD", and I thought, well, that's not realistic dialog because a PhDs is something you have done, not something that you 'have'. But then people here are treating it like attainment of literally a 'qualification' is an end goal in itself.

iflp 5y ago
> Steiner is not prepared to rest on his laurels. He is currently reworking part of his dissertation for publication and plans to continue his theoretical physics work. It definitely helps that he has a lifetime of research experience (in another field).
eyeundersand 5y ago
I don't see what's wrong with saying "I have a PhD". It's equivalent to what (I think) you're saying: "I have a few qualifications (pertaining to research)".
- yuuu 5y ago
  Well, it's annoying and usually arrogant. Just like people who put Ph.D. in their LinkedIn or Twitter names. I don't care that you have a Ph.D., and if you flaunt it, I'll think you're dumber than someone with a bachelor's degree.
wheelinsupial 5y ago
The title is more accurately described as “Former Brown Professor of Medicine Returns to Brown to earn his Third Doctorate“ He had an MD, received a PhD from MIT, then went on to have a career as a researcher at Brown before taking up physics undergrad classes, and then continuing on to grad school. He is quoted in the article as saying he will continue to work on physics research.
- 5y ago

PaulDavisThe1st 5y ago

I started a PhD in computational molecular biology. Dropped out after year and focused on software. Some years later, I applied to grad school for a CS PhD but was not accepted. The following year, I got a job in the CS department I had been rejected from, spent 4+ years there before leaving to help start a certain e-commerce company, then left that after a year to raise my daughter. Eventually back to software, and feel proud and happy about the libre software I've given to the world over the last 21 years of that part of my life. You might think after all that that a PhD would be an irrelevance. But actually, I do still sometimes dream of being able to follow that process, of drilling down and into a problem much more deeply than any other context would allow, of having my ideas constantly challenged by smart people, and of eventually (one hopes) coming to some sort of conclusion. I have many friends with CS PhD's, and to be honest, I don't think my life has been impaired in any way by the absence of the PhD, and maybe even enhanced. Still, it would be nice. And apparently, I've still got 30 years (at least) to get it done!

coldcode 5y ago
A college friend of mine intends to pursue a PhD in Chemistry once he retires (soon). I was accepted back in the early 80's but instead spent 4 decades doing programming. I decided to do art instead of going back to school. Sometimes I wish I had actually gotten the doctorate, but not enough to start over again.

FpUser 5y ago

What a sharp mind. Even though he was already recognized scientist the capacity to continue at this so advanced age is nothing but very respectable.

cg30e 5y ago

This is very inspiring. I too am young and been in the work force for several years, but unlike the other comments in this thread I am not settled down as an older student returning to school. I am willing to give up a high paying salary to return back to school as a PhD student and I am not tied down with a mortgage or anything else. I find mathematics simply too interesting to not learn at the highest level. Working in industry will simply not teach me the material I want to learn. I’m considering going back for either a PhD in Math or a math heavy PhD in CS. I read math textbooks for fun and worked with tutors to ensure my proofs are done correctly. I can do this for hours on end without external motivation. I taught myself a lot of math and can see myself doing this as a career. I want to do research. Most people my age say the same things in the comment sections in this thread (tied down to a mortgage, make too much money to return). I’m glad generalizations like these don’t apply to me and can’t wait to get back to school

axiom92 5y ago
PhD or not is one of those questions where if you find yourself asking it repeatedly (especially to others around you), the answer is no. You are exactly the kind of person who should be doing it! Good luck!
- cg30e 5y ago
  Thank you!
BeetleB 5y ago
Some cautionary comments: Often your advisor in grad school will force you to focus on what they want rather than what you want to learn. This is less likely in a math department, but more likely in a CS one. As with everything, it all depends on your advisor. The PhD is replete with hoops you have to take that will be orthogonal to your goal of learning (e.g. spending a lot of your time doing HW on the professor's pet topic when taking a course). Someone I know who retired somewhat young (early 50's) enrolled in a PhD program because he loves to learn. He dropped out within two years because he found it fairly inefficient in learning the topics he wanted to learn about (he had a career on mathematical topics and can handle the math). Unlike younger folks, time is precious for him, and being efficient is more important to someone in their 50s than in their 20s. If all you care about is learning and not the actual piece of paper in the end, it may be more efficient to get a less demanding job and use your spare time studying what you want to study. Do it right and you'll make more money than you would as a student, and potentially learn more than you would in grad school. Finally, PhD is about research. Yes, you will learn a lot, but learning is not the goal. A lot of people drop out because they realized they loved learning much more than doing research, which will involve large chunks of your time being unproductive. If you plan to do a PhD, you will have to draw a line at some point and say "OK, those 10-100 things there that really interest me? I have to drop them forever so I can do research." If you opt not to do research, you can learn a lot more.

silisili 5y ago

Seriously? Brown was removed from the title, because one person took it in bad faith? Would Harvard have been removed from a title?

throwamon 5y ago
Just wait until Elon Musk founds Texas Institute of Technology and Science. https://nitter.net/elonmusk/status/1453954994546229253 https://nitter.net/elonmusk/status/1453954994546229253
batman-farts 5y ago
Yeah, when I saw Brown and PhD in the same headline, I assumed Brown University.

wanderingmind 5y ago

For all the fantasy here, let me remind you doing a PhD at an early age is one of the worst things you can do to your financial security (CS Ph.D being a major exception). It does not teach any employable skills, leads to a very high level of depression/anxiety compared to regular jobs and creates a huge opportunity cost where you miss out saving money early that has true compounding capability. The 2019 Nature survey has more information https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-03459-7 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-03459-7

BeetleB 5y ago
Previous discussion regarding your comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28679234 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28679234 (I'd repeat what I said before, but dang wasn't happy the last time I copy/pasted).
lokimedes 5y ago
I realize we’re mostly US-centric here on HN, but I have greatly benefited from my Physics Ph.D. Obtained in Denmark, while being paid $55000 a year throughout the study (standard rate for PhD students in DK). In Denmark most people will hold a state sponsored Masters degree, so it has served me well in the private industry as a differentiator. Combined with an MBA (yes, I hear the snuffing sounds guys) it has been the perfect package for senior engineering management.
throw63738 5y ago
PhD in information science or mathematics can be good investment. But it is bad idea to star career in academia.
- amitport 5y ago
  It depends what you want to do and what you're good at. For example, if you're good in the academy thing and manage to get papers into top tier companies you will finish your PhD faster if you won't take breaks in the industry. If your PhD is on desrible topic (e.g., ML) there are plenty of academy and industry jobs waiting for you, regardless of your work experience.

eric4smith 5y ago

Very inspiring story indeed. But the first question resonating in my mind is... Why?? While what the student did is good. It serves as bad inspiration for too many people going to college these days just because they want to. And not because of a reason. If the cost of education was low, then I would not be opposed to it. But we all know stories of people who say they are "going back to school" for very minimal benefits later. So... at that age, we can see it as just an aspirational thing. But for younger people, it mostly (not all the time) sends the wrong message.

IneficientPgons 5y ago
STEM PhDs in the US pay no tuition and receive a stipend of typically $30K+ as well as health insurance and sometimes housing benefits. Honestly, "fuck it, do another Ph.D. in an adjacent field like math" is definitely in my "shit ran out of funds for ski trips because I retired too early and need some health insurance ASAP" quiver. > So... at that age, we can see it as just an aspirational thing. But for younger people, it mostly (not all the time) sends the wrong message. Like 20-somethings doing startup shit, PhDs can be terrible life choices or wonderful life choices. Outcomes are anything but uniform. If I had gone industry out of undergrad I might be making $150K by now. Instead I'm making close to 10x that doing exactly what I would be doing if I were an unemployed bum following my passion, all thanks to my phd. Lucky, sure. So are startup folks.
- aijeq 5y ago
  > 30k This is the pay at top tier universities with extremely exclusive entry criteria. I was a former PhD student in CS. Washed out due to costs because I was self-funding. It was a local university and an R1 so not "bad" but also not ivy. I had absolutely no problem keeping up with class + research work while also working in industry as I have a lot of time on my hands and no family. I'm still a little sour about the whole thing because I had an incredible and flexible advisor. But costs are costs. The average STEM PhD student at my university made 13k, up to 20k if you took on summer teaching duties. You did get classes covered, but health insurance came out of your stipend and you still had to cover ancillary fees (gym, technology, etc). So you walked, after taxes, with anywhere between 10 and 12k. They offered me an RA position with my PhD admission that paid approximately 20k. Obviously I could not take it and afford rent. Perhaps if they offered a free dorm and healthcare I could consider choking down 12-15k for 3-4 years to get the pay off in the end. American PhD programs generally pay below poverty wages. Several PhD student colleagues of mine were on food stamps and lived with 1-3 other PhD students in the run down apartments adjacent to the university. It's abject suffering for the most part and direct-to-phd students often leave in their mid 30s burned out and 10 years behind other students in the workplace. I inquired with several universities about associate professor positions and even those have pretty insane post-doc requirements before being considered. You'll be 15+ years behind your cohort if you, god forbid, decide to go another 3 or so years in a slighty-above-poverty post doc position. At my university these paid around 40-45k, up to 60k for fairly exclusive positions. For what it's worth I make as much as the average industry CS PhD in a software engineering capacity after 10 years of service. I was pursuing it for pleasure and credentialing. It is not practical, unfortunately, to pursue a PhD as an American unless you are incredibly wealthy or on a visa program. It is not surprising many PhD students are foreign born. No one intends to get rich with a PhD, but it seems even comfort is a far flung dream.

almokhtar 5y ago

Absolutely gonna take it to the grave with him :D

kristian_io 5y ago

Audio version of this story is available here (10min): https://readtoo.me/article/88495a054f8e8f7b5098fad4b04a3fbf1b026402 https://readtoo.me/article/88495a054f8e8f7b5098fad4b04a3fbf1...

yread 5y ago

I half expected it to say he started it at 23

8589934591 5y ago

I'm in my late 20s and my wife works on her own startup (non tech tangible product). I wonder if there are others who have their spouses working and how the marriage factored into their decision to pursue a CS PhD. I'm not from USA. My primary concerns are her startup tanking, me being unavailable for her mental health and of course a steady income. I sometimes wonder maybe I should pursue a CS PhD after settling down financially by late 40s.

np1810 5y ago

Such a motivating life he has created... Please read the complete article and you'll find a very important advice in the end from this extraordinary human... ;) And "knowledge hunger" is real... :)

happy-go-lucky 5y ago

" ... I wanted to do something that keeps my mind active. But it is a matter of whatever you want to do. If you have a dream, follow it. Sometimes that dream may never have been verbalized, it may be buried in the subconscious. It is important not to waste your older days. There is a lot of brainpower in older people and I think it can be of enormous benefit to younger generations. Older people have experience and many times history repeats itself.” I see this as a way to protect one's health and sanity as one ages. Aging gracefully should be possible.

patrec 5y ago

Can anyone with a background in the area comment on how legit this is? I have no trouble believing that a spry research professor in a quantitative field could get a PhD in another quantitative field at a fairly advanced age, especially if they can bring existing skills that are underused in their new domain, but it would be genuinely amazing if someone in his 80ies were to successfully > set to work on a very difficult problem [...] the theory that he was doing involves techniques that are incredibly advanced and challenging to master in physics, a field were people are often considered over the hill past their 20ies, and an elite uni at that. The only reference to his work a quick google scholar search turned up is from 2012: https://meetings.aps.org/Meeting/MAR12/Session/Z26.1 https://meetings.aps.org/Meeting/MAR12/Session/Z26.1

thomasfl 5y ago

The love Steiner shows for science is heartwarming. Research in physics, or even astro physics, is perhaps the ultimate adventure these days.

hikerclimber1 5y ago

False news.

agustif 5y ago

‘My students never knew’: the lecturer who lived in a tent https://www.theguardian.com/education/2021/oct/30/my-students-never-knew-the-lecturer-who-lived-in-a-tent https://www.theguardian.com/education/2021/oct/30/my-student... I say fuck to those big name universities that pay peanuts to their most overexploited workers. === Edited: no absolutisms is better Do only a PhD if you're sure you can afford it.

threatofrain 5y ago
For many places, at least a masters or phd is the credibility doorway to do interesting work. By choosing not to get these credentials, you are also choosing to greatly narrow your opportunity in those lines of work. Being able to do the work is figuratively 30% of the battle, whereas having the opportunity to do it is the real challenge.
CalRobert 5y ago
College is expensive enough, and professors (but hey we call them "lecturers" so we can treat them horribly) earn nothing, but what is often forgotten is that a few years out of work can cost half a million bucks (or, for some people, far more) in opportunity cost.
wesleywt 5y ago
It depends. In America yes. Elsewhere. Get one.
jinto36 5y ago
A PhD is pretty much the minimum to be able to get much of anywhere in biology. In that context it's "don't do a postdoc, you'll never get a tenured position anymore".
gspr 5y ago
Ugh. I agree that the exploitative behavior of some big name universities is horrible, but I don't at all understand how you from this conclude that "academia is over", and in turn from that that people should avoid doing PhD. Your comment is 10/10 HN.

locallost 5y ago

Heh, my second attempt at a Bachelor's degree was at 27, and when I was done, a professor asked if I will also continue with the Master's degree at the same University. To that I said, no, I'm over 30 and too old :-). State of mind is a very important thing.

pelasaco 5y ago

I'm 40 now, since the pandemics started studying game development (BA), and talking with my colleagues via discord, I'm quite sure I'm the oldest one. On the bright side, I'm the one with the best notes, delivering always weeks before the deadline, despite the fact that I have a full time job and family. I think what the life taught me at best are time management and context switching. Love to learn and be productive. I'm looking forward to still be a student in the age of 90.

id 5y ago
>despite the fact that I have a full time job and family In another comment you wrote: >I dropped to 24 hours/week and have a much better life quality now, working 3 days per week. Still remarkable, so congrats, but full time normally is considered to be 40 hours / week, 5 days per week.
- pelasaco 5y ago
  yes, you are right. I dropped from $$ job, which allows me to work in something different (I do volunteer work with kids, afternoon). I wake up every day 6:30, and limit my studies to 1 hour early in the morning (coding, when I'm most productive) and 1 hour late in the night (reading through materials).

BlasDeLezo 5y ago

now go up for tenure

selimthegrim 5y ago

The topic is legitimate but Marston hasn’t done much CMT in 20 years, Witten is considered to have made most of the advances in bosonization in the 80s although there was a paper out of Riverside a few years ago I remember that looked interesting with Mike Mulligan

HeavyStorm 5y ago

Sometimes I get scared that I'm too old and will not accomplish my goald It's nice to see that I probably have much more time than I think.

zahma 5y ago

This resonates with me as someone going back to get an MD. I’m early thirties and a new father. Working through undergrad science classes is kicking my ass, so I’m really impressed that this guy’s brain was plastic enough to handle the rigors of theoretical physics. Inspirational on many levels!

vmception 5y ago
That's because brain/synaptic plasticity in relation to learning was made up on the spot and simply repeated ever since. It's just been a convenient shared crutch to not learn new concepts after a certain age because the incentives are not strong enough for most people.
- esond 5y ago
  Is this true? I would love to read further on this. For one reason or another, I am experiencing some concern lately about my waning ability to learn new concepts as I age, or at least my perception of it. I would be chuffed to learn that it was all just in my head (so to speak).
  - vmception 5y ago
    Its not known yet, and is only an idea. The only thing we do know is that there is a shared experience that seems to make learning new concepts difficult as we get older. We also have plenty of examples of people thriving when placed amongst people that prioritize learning those concepts and have the same lack of encumbrances as those other people. This points to willingness and lifestyle being the primary limiting factors over mental ability. The plasticity concept has only been extrapolated to learning ability but is as well studied as phrenology. It still needs studies to both prove and disprove it in relation to learning ability. People have shared experiences about supernatural deities, the similarity being that the prevalence of an experience doesnt provide answers about the experience.
    - Aromasin 5y ago

timwaagh 5y ago

I don't see the point of this. He's not going to have a long career as a researcher so why dedicate resources trying to train him to become one? In my country typically being one year behind already counts strongly against you.

hilbert42 5y ago

He has to be an absolute inspiration to everyone. What's more he's now 13 years older than the age at which Einstein died, so he's shown us that pursuing one's desires and goals at any age is a worthwhile venture. I wish him well and hope he continues to get enjoyment from his new expertise in physics.

krosaen 5y ago

Wow and I thought I was taking a risk spending a few years transitioning into robotics in my late 30s :) Awesome to see this, would like to think we all could undertake huge learning challenges at any point in life, and we'll probably need to if we care to keep contributing at a high level.

the_only_law 5y ago

I don’t even have a bachelors. I’ve been thinking about going back to school and pursing higher levels of education (research masters or PhD) twitch a mostly utilitarian fields and do industrial R&D work in a domain I’ve become interested in and my biggest worry is being “old” by the time I complete any graduate education (even though old in my case, would likely be mid-30s by the end if I start in the coming years). I might get crucified for being so jaded and cynical, but completed a PhD as part of some lifelong dream seems a bit empty to me. I think it’s fair to call him a physicist, but I just personally wouldn’t feel the dream was realized. Now, at the end of his life, he’s achieved the bare minimum and I doubt he will be able to do much more in the field or see the field develop.

MetaWhirledPeas 5y ago
> Now, at the end of his life, he’s achieved the bare minimum and I doubt he will be able to do much more in the field or see the field develop. I'm sure the fact that it would inspire others was not lost on him. Or perhaps he did it just so it would be done? There's enjoyment in the journey and the accomplishment.
Loughla 5y ago
How is completing a super advanced degree in a very specific field 'the bare minimum'? I feel like taking high school physics would be the bare minimum. Or maybe even getting a bachelor's. But a PhD? That's not the pinnacle of a career, by any means, but it's 100% the pinnacle of an educational experience. >my biggest worry is being “old” by the time I complete any graduate education There are 'old' students everywhere in college and graduate school. If you interact with any graduate students from not your home country, 99% of the time, they are much (read: a decade or two) older than the 'regular' student.
- ryan93 5y ago
  Wrong. Most foreign PHDs are in their early to mid twenties when they start
  - 5y ago

et2o 5y ago

This is such a cool story. What a man. I wonder what his patients remember of him.

kevmo 5y ago

I've been planning to become a mathematician in my 70s for some time.

hellbannedguy 5y ago

A wealthy retired doctor who was interested in Physics his entire life as a hobby decided to go back to school. I bet he loved every minute of it. Does he need the PhD to make money--no. Does a wealthy man need something to stimulate his curiosities--yes. Most of us, even physics fanatics, would never get this opportunity. (I have noticed a lot of wealthy doctors whom turn a hobby into something more, but after they made their wad.)

ericmcer 5y ago

It's always comforting to know that if you weren't good enough to achieve anything of note in your youth you can always earn accolades for being stubborn enough to do it in old age. I have some unreasonable rock climbing goals that seem less likely but more impressive as I age. Also a 42 year old man just became the light heavyweight UFC champ last weekend so I guess... Keep fighting.

musicale 5y ago

Some Ph.D. programs are long, but this is excessive!

husamia 5y ago

I am 39 right now. Someday I want to earn an MD but it's hard to leave my full time job.