9 ms·

Roku releases IDK to allow consumers to develop applications for their Roku

187 points by kaladin-jasnah 5y ago

mwexler 5y ago
So, roku started out as a democratic middleman offering access to multiple streaming players. But it's devolved into another turf war, where it now continually threatens it's purchasers with loss of access, today Youtube, tommorrow Amazon Prime Video. From such heights, it's really becoming very disappointing.
- joekrill 5y ago
  Actually Roku started as a "Netflix Box" meant to stream Netflix content, and funded by Netflix.
  - mwexler 5y ago
    That was year one-ish. Within a very short period, Roku expanded well beyond that, as it was the only small box and soon stick with an OS, vs. Chromecast, Intel WiDi/Miracast, and other tech that tried to become a remote display, and the myriad of tv boxes that faded out or got commoditized (a zillion tv boxes running android). Replay, TiVo, WebTV, most of the standalone boxes had faded by that point, and Roku, from the bones of Replay, quickly became the place to have "channels" separate from a cable or YouTube/Metacafe/Dailymotion/Vimeo controlling platform etc. So, yeah, early early days were Netflix bound, but with 1200 channels in 2013 and over 3000 by 2015, Roku was clearly showing more than just Netflix. At that time, sounded like Roku was the open door to distributing content to a group of hungry viewers... And today? Still tons of "channels"... but instead of the garden of a million flowers, we instead have the top line players offering the most requested media, and so 3000 or 30000 makes little difference. In addition, a quick perusal of https://channelstore.roku.com/ https://channelstore.roku.com/ reveals that past the first few "most popular" options, it's a desert out there. Lots of screen savers and public domain streamers, and little else. So, what are Roku's options? It can promise that all can play with carriage fees reflecting consumption. It can offer it's own content (The Roku Channel) to compete. It can offer an advertising service to allow monetization of channel/media creators. And/Or, it can decide that it owns it's viewers, and instead of being an open gateway, it's a closed wall. And that's where we are: It's not easy to be a slightly-smart pipe, so Roku punted. Open no more. I'll never get rid of all the Rokus, for hope that they'll come back around. But thinking back, the power of those early days in 2012-2015 when you got a Roku because you wanted to see almost everything without having to get a sketchy box from who knows where and have it pull torrents in the background... well, those were the days, indeed.
  - mechanicalpulse 5y ago
    Did it? The earliest recollection I have of Roku is of the SoundBridge, a music player released before Netflix streaming was even a thing. It seems the company was reincorporated after they hooked up with Netflix.
runjake 5y ago
The Roku interface is great and I would much prefer it over the likes of Apple TV. However, Roku collects your viewing data (including by taking screenshots) and anything else it can about you (eg. the TCL Roku TVs have mics) and sell it to its valued partners. This is all in the EULA.
- enragedcacti 5y ago
  From [1]: > On Roku-powered smart TVs, you can turn off ACR by going to Settings > scroll down and select Privacy > Smart TV Experience. > Next, uncheck “Use Information for TV Inputs” to disable ACR. Although this will stop your Roku TV from identifying your content on the pixel level, Roku can still collect data about the Roku TV streaming channels you’ve installed and use. > To prevent personalized ads on your Roku profile, go to Settings > Privacy > Advertising, then check “Limit ad tracking.” Note: This setting is also available on Roku streaming gadgets. --- > (eg. the TCL Roku TVs have mics) Is there any evidence that they transmit anything from the mics? [1] https://www.komando.com/tech-tips/stop-smart-tv-tracking/544540/ https://www.komando.com/tech-tips/stop-smart-tv-tracking/544...
anomie31 5y ago
This is a nice throwback to the time Roku has a public SDK for their HD1000 https://web.archive.org/web/20040605002125/http://www.rokulabs.com:80/developers/ https://web.archive.org/web/20040605002125/http://www.rokula...
smoldesu 5y ago
I'm guessing this is in response to the fact that Google won't maintain an official YouTube app for them anymore? It's a shame that companies are only interested in releasing SDKs when they can eke out a petty win (not to mention their hardware is basically irrelevant by now) but it's nice to have nonetheless, I suppose.
- kaladin-jasnah 5y ago
  I feel like it'd be compelling to some enthusiasts because of the low barrier (well, minus learning the IDK) to developing something they'd like for a Roku. Although if you're going to… develop something for a Roku, I feel like a Raspberry Pi might be easier.
  - nirav72 5y ago
    But Roku already has some things already built in. Including a very functional remote. Sure all of that can be created on a raspberry pi - but is it really worth the effort? Plus cost wise, Roku would be cheaper than a raspberry pi by the time you add up the cost of all the individual components.
    - lazyasciiart 5y ago
      Plus, a lot of people already own a Roku and not a Raspberry Pi.
      - ghostly_s 5y ago
        +it's quite nice not to have to fiddle with your TV inputs.
        hhh 5y ago
        CEC can help you here :)
    - somehnguy 5y ago
LocalH 5y ago
Something I haven't really seen discussed anywhere since I first saw this earlier: >Sunsetting non-certified channels >With the release of the IDK and beta channels, Roku will remove non-certified channels from the platform by March 2022. The Roku IDK and beta channel feature will facilitate broader innovation, improve beta testing, and offer a better development experience and a more standardized development process across streaming platforms. So basically, channels via code seems like it's going away. I hope they have a suitable replacement in mind with the IDK
- krackers 5y ago
  Wait does this mean unlisted/private channels are going away? That effectively kills sideloading
  - kaladin-jasnah 5y ago
    https://developer.roku.com/docs/developer-program/idk/idk-getting-started.md https://developer.roku.com/docs/developer-program/idk/idk-ge... > IDK applications are for personal use only; they can only be run after being sideloaded on an IDK-supported Roku streaming player running Roku OS 10.5 (or later). So IIUC the IDK explicitly allows consumers to sideload apps.
    - ghostly_s 5y ago
      But it seems to be an all-new API, so existing sideloadable apps are not trivially migratable?
      - netr0ute 5y ago
        If you can convert BrightScript to C++, then that's half the battle already.
donohoe 5y ago
I’m skeptical this will amount to much. Their current developer platform is just awful to work with. I don’t have faith this will be adopted.
paulv 5y ago
> IDK applications cannot be run on Roku TVs, Roku streambars, or updatable/legacy streaming player models. This is unfortunate. I was only interested in the IDK because roku is built in to my tv.
- throwanem 5y ago
  At least some of them do appear to support sideloading, for example my TCL 43" from 2019. I haven't tried loading anything yet, but following the "Enable Developer Mode" process described in the Roku docs [1] does yield the option to enable the dev server, and I don't know that there's any reason to suspect IDK apps won't run if loaded. (Might need to update the OS, though; I haven't done that in a while.) [1] https://blog.roku.com/developer/developer-setup-guide https://blog.roku.com/developer/developer-setup-guide
  - ghostly_s 5y ago
    What is the model # of your TV? I tried searching several of the TV model #s listed in their matrix and nothing came up.
- ghostly_s 5y ago
  The IDK docs list several supported Roku TB models (not mine, though)...
  - throwanem 5y ago
    All apparently first-party by the product names, though, which mine isn't. I'm going to try building and sideloading one of the IDK sample apps today. If it works, I'll update with details including the TV make, model, and OS version; if not, I'll...just update with that, I guess.
    - throwanem 5y ago
      0 for 2. The first-party stick with OS 10.5 gives an "IDK applications are not supported on this device" dialog; the TCL TV, with OS 10.0 and no update available, just black-screens and stays that way till I hit Home. I'm not really sure what the point is here, if I'm honest. Why even bother releasing an SDK with such limited device support, especially pitched at hobbyists who can be assumed to have (and want to support) the widest device range of any developer segment? It's not as if I'm going to buy new hardware just to look at my calendars and other day-planning info over coffee on my kitchen TV rather than my phone...
mickjagger 5y ago
Who would want to do this? Is it aimed at people who own rokus? I’m finding it hard to understand why I’d write something for this instead of well anything else really.
ZoomerCretin 5y ago
It's amazing to me that Roku has the plurality of the US streaming market (37%), yet its development ecosystem is so terrible. For those who don't know: 1. The only public development API requires the use of their proprietary language BrightScript which is poorly documented, and for which no official compiler, interpreter, or runtime environment is available. Enthusiasts had to create an interpreter for it (https://github.com/sjbarag/brs https://github.com/sjbarag/brs) to speed up development time. Previously you had to push your app to a Roku to run it before you could learn of any syntax errors. 2. They do have a C/C++ API, but they limit access to big orgs and require an NDA to use it. There are plenty of cool projects, like a Prince of Persia port (https://github.com/lvcabral/Prince-of-Persia-Roku https://github.com/lvcabral/Prince-of-Persia-Roku). That they are finally shoring up their poor developer ecosystem with C/C++ and JavaScript APIs is great, but it's unfortunate that they aren't allowing these apps to be distributed through their official store.
- josteink 5y ago
  > It's amazing to me that Roku has the plurality of the US streaming market (37%), yet its development ecosystem is so terrible. Step 1: be a cheap (the cheapest?) option in the early phase of a market. This way you build up a sizeable customer-base using a market-segment with low/no expectations. Step 2: app-developers will be forced to support your platform, despite low-quality platform, ecosystem or SDK if they want to be “everywhere”. Step 3: With better/more popular apps supporting your platform you can start making more expensive devices or even sell/rent your platform to other players needing a checkbox to check before they can launch (ie smart-TVs). Roku is really crap to use, but by playing by this book they’ve seemingly done well (as a business) so far.
  - tssva 5y ago
    "Roku is really crap to use" I have used Google TV, Fire TV, Apple TV and Roku. I have used Roku both as a separate device and built into a TV. Out of them all I prefer to use the Roku. I even sold an Apple TV which was given to me and used part of the sale to replace it with a Roku Premiere+ which I found to be a much better experience.
IIAOPSW 5y ago
With all the complaints I'm seeing here about lack of documentation, calling it an "IDK" feels like some sort of meta joke.
- jagged-chisel 5y ago
  tbf, 'D' is 'developer', not 'documentation'
8eye 5y ago
roku, go all in on it, show them your teeth. but seriously, when the brand came out, it actually become a huge part of my family right away, everyone was talking about it. this was like the first year, fond memories
kingosticks 5y ago
Do these community supported SDK/APIs ever work? In my experience (Strava and Spotify APIs) it's an excuse for the company to release a load of half-baked crap and then wash their hands of supporting it. Allowing them to tick the box that they offer a public API and make themselves look better. Despite members of the public donating their time to help each other, without participation from the company itself it's all trial and error development with everyone running into the same bugs that never get fixed. It's great that some companies have finally recognised the value in providing public SDK/APIs but they should be investing in supporting them also.
schoolornot 5y ago
Roku will ban you from installing custom apps if your device has ever installed an app that’s been removed for TOS violations. My account was permanently blocked from side loading because I had downloaded & tried a M3U player. The demise of this company is long overdue.
- lvass 5y ago
  Which makes "your device" a misnomer here. Roku clearly still owns it.
  - pixelatedindex 5y ago
    Generally if you pay for a device then it really should be “your device”. Nobody goes around saying the owner of an iPhone is Apple (colloquially).
    - freedomben 5y ago
      That may be a reflection of your circle. I say that all the time, and many of the people I talk to about it agree completely :-)
    - grishka 5y ago
      > Nobody goes around saying the owner of an iPhone is Apple (colloquially). I do.
- freedomben 5y ago
  Thanks for sharing. I'm not a regular Roku user but I do have one and I was thinking about hacking on it. Knowing that Roku can ban you from installing custom apps on the device I purchased is enough to make me spend my time elsewhere. I'm really glad that companies like pine64, frame.work, and purism, etc are starting to emerge. The Roku, Apple, John Deere etc user-hostile approach of "you don't own it, we do. You're renting it from us and we will tell you what is permitted" needs to be defeated.
waynesoftware 5y ago
I’m waiting for flutter support for roku apps
webkike 5y ago
I hate Roku. I bought a Roku tv and it started putting advertisements on the Home Screen.
- pixelatedindex 5y ago
  When I had bought my Samsung TV in 2017, I too got advertisements in the home bar. I got livid and disconnected it from the internet, and connected my Chromecast and Apple TV to it. Never looked back since.
darepublic 5y ago
Curious about making an app that plays shows on a schedule just the way old tv worked. And my kids can watch their shows but not on demand

So, roku started out as a democratic middleman offering access to multiple streaming players. But it's devolved into another turf war, where it now continually threatens it's purchasers with loss of access, today Youtube, tommorrow Amazon Prime Video. From such heights, it's really becoming very disappointing.

joekrill 5y ago
Actually Roku started as a "Netflix Box" meant to stream Netflix content, and funded by Netflix.
- mwexler 5y ago
  That was year one-ish. Within a very short period, Roku expanded well beyond that, as it was the only small box and soon stick with an OS, vs. Chromecast, Intel WiDi/Miracast, and other tech that tried to become a remote display, and the myriad of tv boxes that faded out or got commoditized (a zillion tv boxes running android). Replay, TiVo, WebTV, most of the standalone boxes had faded by that point, and Roku, from the bones of Replay, quickly became the place to have "channels" separate from a cable or YouTube/Metacafe/Dailymotion/Vimeo controlling platform etc. So, yeah, early early days were Netflix bound, but with 1200 channels in 2013 and over 3000 by 2015, Roku was clearly showing more than just Netflix. At that time, sounded like Roku was the open door to distributing content to a group of hungry viewers... And today? Still tons of "channels"... but instead of the garden of a million flowers, we instead have the top line players offering the most requested media, and so 3000 or 30000 makes little difference. In addition, a quick perusal of https://channelstore.roku.com/ https://channelstore.roku.com/ reveals that past the first few "most popular" options, it's a desert out there. Lots of screen savers and public domain streamers, and little else. So, what are Roku's options? It can promise that all can play with carriage fees reflecting consumption. It can offer it's own content (The Roku Channel) to compete. It can offer an advertising service to allow monetization of channel/media creators. And/Or, it can decide that it owns it's viewers, and instead of being an open gateway, it's a closed wall. And that's where we are: It's not easy to be a slightly-smart pipe, so Roku punted. Open no more. I'll never get rid of all the Rokus, for hope that they'll come back around. But thinking back, the power of those early days in 2012-2015 when you got a Roku because you wanted to see almost everything without having to get a sketchy box from who knows where and have it pull torrents in the background... well, those were the days, indeed.
- mechanicalpulse 5y ago
  Did it? The earliest recollection I have of Roku is of the SoundBridge, a music player released before Netflix streaming was even a thing. It seems the company was reincorporated after they hooked up with Netflix.

runjake 5y ago

The Roku interface is great and I would much prefer it over the likes of Apple TV. However, Roku collects your viewing data (including by taking screenshots) and anything else it can about you (eg. the TCL Roku TVs have mics) and sell it to its valued partners. This is all in the EULA.

enragedcacti 5y ago
From [1]: > On Roku-powered smart TVs, you can turn off ACR by going to Settings > scroll down and select Privacy > Smart TV Experience. > Next, uncheck “Use Information for TV Inputs” to disable ACR. Although this will stop your Roku TV from identifying your content on the pixel level, Roku can still collect data about the Roku TV streaming channels you’ve installed and use. > To prevent personalized ads on your Roku profile, go to Settings > Privacy > Advertising, then check “Limit ad tracking.” Note: This setting is also available on Roku streaming gadgets. --- > (eg. the TCL Roku TVs have mics) Is there any evidence that they transmit anything from the mics? [1] https://www.komando.com/tech-tips/stop-smart-tv-tracking/544540/ https://www.komando.com/tech-tips/stop-smart-tv-tracking/544...

anomie31 5y ago

This is a nice throwback to the time Roku has a public SDK for their HD1000 https://web.archive.org/web/20040605002125/http://www.rokulabs.com:80/developers/ https://web.archive.org/web/20040605002125/http://www.rokula...

smoldesu 5y ago

I'm guessing this is in response to the fact that Google won't maintain an official YouTube app for them anymore? It's a shame that companies are only interested in releasing SDKs when they can eke out a petty win (not to mention their hardware is basically irrelevant by now) but it's nice to have nonetheless, I suppose.

kaladin-jasnah 5y ago
I feel like it'd be compelling to some enthusiasts because of the low barrier (well, minus learning the IDK) to developing something they'd like for a Roku. Although if you're going to… develop something for a Roku, I feel like a Raspberry Pi might be easier.
- nirav72 5y ago
  But Roku already has some things already built in. Including a very functional remote. Sure all of that can be created on a raspberry pi - but is it really worth the effort? Plus cost wise, Roku would be cheaper than a raspberry pi by the time you add up the cost of all the individual components.
  - lazyasciiart 5y ago
    Plus, a lot of people already own a Roku and not a Raspberry Pi.
    - ghostly_s 5y ago
      +it's quite nice not to have to fiddle with your TV inputs.
      - hhh 5y ago
        CEC can help you here :)
  - somehnguy 5y ago

LocalH 5y ago

Something I haven't really seen discussed anywhere since I first saw this earlier: >Sunsetting non-certified channels >With the release of the IDK and beta channels, Roku will remove non-certified channels from the platform by March 2022. The Roku IDK and beta channel feature will facilitate broader innovation, improve beta testing, and offer a better development experience and a more standardized development process across streaming platforms. So basically, channels via code seems like it's going away. I hope they have a suitable replacement in mind with the IDK

krackers 5y ago
Wait does this mean unlisted/private channels are going away? That effectively kills sideloading
- kaladin-jasnah 5y ago
  https://developer.roku.com/docs/developer-program/idk/idk-getting-started.md https://developer.roku.com/docs/developer-program/idk/idk-ge... > IDK applications are for personal use only; they can only be run after being sideloaded on an IDK-supported Roku streaming player running Roku OS 10.5 (or later). So IIUC the IDK explicitly allows consumers to sideload apps.
  - ghostly_s 5y ago
    But it seems to be an all-new API, so existing sideloadable apps are not trivially migratable?
    - netr0ute 5y ago
      If you can convert BrightScript to C++, then that's half the battle already.

donohoe 5y ago

I’m skeptical this will amount to much. Their current developer platform is just awful to work with. I don’t have faith this will be adopted.

paulv 5y ago

> IDK applications cannot be run on Roku TVs, Roku streambars, or updatable/legacy streaming player models. This is unfortunate. I was only interested in the IDK because roku is built in to my tv.

throwanem 5y ago
At least some of them do appear to support sideloading, for example my TCL 43" from 2019. I haven't tried loading anything yet, but following the "Enable Developer Mode" process described in the Roku docs [1] does yield the option to enable the dev server, and I don't know that there's any reason to suspect IDK apps won't run if loaded. (Might need to update the OS, though; I haven't done that in a while.) [1] https://blog.roku.com/developer/developer-setup-guide https://blog.roku.com/developer/developer-setup-guide
- ghostly_s 5y ago
  What is the model # of your TV? I tried searching several of the TV model #s listed in their matrix and nothing came up.
ghostly_s 5y ago
The IDK docs list several supported Roku TB models (not mine, though)...
- throwanem 5y ago
  All apparently first-party by the product names, though, which mine isn't. I'm going to try building and sideloading one of the IDK sample apps today. If it works, I'll update with details including the TV make, model, and OS version; if not, I'll...just update with that, I guess.
  - throwanem 5y ago
    0 for 2. The first-party stick with OS 10.5 gives an "IDK applications are not supported on this device" dialog; the TCL TV, with OS 10.0 and no update available, just black-screens and stays that way till I hit Home. I'm not really sure what the point is here, if I'm honest. Why even bother releasing an SDK with such limited device support, especially pitched at hobbyists who can be assumed to have (and want to support) the widest device range of any developer segment? It's not as if I'm going to buy new hardware just to look at my calendars and other day-planning info over coffee on my kitchen TV rather than my phone...

mickjagger 5y ago

Who would want to do this? Is it aimed at people who own rokus? I’m finding it hard to understand why I’d write something for this instead of well anything else really.

ZoomerCretin 5y ago

It's amazing to me that Roku has the plurality of the US streaming market (37%), yet its development ecosystem is so terrible. For those who don't know: 1. The only public development API requires the use of their proprietary language BrightScript which is poorly documented, and for which no official compiler, interpreter, or runtime environment is available. Enthusiasts had to create an interpreter for it (https://github.com/sjbarag/brs https://github.com/sjbarag/brs) to speed up development time. Previously you had to push your app to a Roku to run it before you could learn of any syntax errors. 2. They do have a C/C++ API, but they limit access to big orgs and require an NDA to use it. There are plenty of cool projects, like a Prince of Persia port (https://github.com/lvcabral/Prince-of-Persia-Roku https://github.com/lvcabral/Prince-of-Persia-Roku). That they are finally shoring up their poor developer ecosystem with C/C++ and JavaScript APIs is great, but it's unfortunate that they aren't allowing these apps to be distributed through their official store.

josteink 5y ago
> It's amazing to me that Roku has the plurality of the US streaming market (37%), yet its development ecosystem is so terrible. Step 1: be a cheap (the cheapest?) option in the early phase of a market. This way you build up a sizeable customer-base using a market-segment with low/no expectations. Step 2: app-developers will be forced to support your platform, despite low-quality platform, ecosystem or SDK if they want to be “everywhere”. Step 3: With better/more popular apps supporting your platform you can start making more expensive devices or even sell/rent your platform to other players needing a checkbox to check before they can launch (ie smart-TVs). Roku is really crap to use, but by playing by this book they’ve seemingly done well (as a business) so far.
- tssva 5y ago
  "Roku is really crap to use" I have used Google TV, Fire TV, Apple TV and Roku. I have used Roku both as a separate device and built into a TV. Out of them all I prefer to use the Roku. I even sold an Apple TV which was given to me and used part of the sale to replace it with a Roku Premiere+ which I found to be a much better experience.

IIAOPSW 5y ago

With all the complaints I'm seeing here about lack of documentation, calling it an "IDK" feels like some sort of meta joke.

jagged-chisel 5y ago
tbf, 'D' is 'developer', not 'documentation'

8eye 5y ago

roku, go all in on it, show them your teeth. but seriously, when the brand came out, it actually become a huge part of my family right away, everyone was talking about it. this was like the first year, fond memories

kingosticks 5y ago

Do these community supported SDK/APIs ever work? In my experience (Strava and Spotify APIs) it's an excuse for the company to release a load of half-baked crap and then wash their hands of supporting it. Allowing them to tick the box that they offer a public API and make themselves look better. Despite members of the public donating their time to help each other, without participation from the company itself it's all trial and error development with everyone running into the same bugs that never get fixed. It's great that some companies have finally recognised the value in providing public SDK/APIs but they should be investing in supporting them also.

schoolornot 5y ago

Roku will ban you from installing custom apps if your device has ever installed an app that’s been removed for TOS violations. My account was permanently blocked from side loading because I had downloaded & tried a M3U player. The demise of this company is long overdue.

lvass 5y ago
Which makes "your device" a misnomer here. Roku clearly still owns it.
- pixelatedindex 5y ago
  Generally if you pay for a device then it really should be “your device”. Nobody goes around saying the owner of an iPhone is Apple (colloquially).
  - freedomben 5y ago
    That may be a reflection of your circle. I say that all the time, and many of the people I talk to about it agree completely :-)
  - grishka 5y ago
    > Nobody goes around saying the owner of an iPhone is Apple (colloquially). I do.
freedomben 5y ago
Thanks for sharing. I'm not a regular Roku user but I do have one and I was thinking about hacking on it. Knowing that Roku can ban you from installing custom apps on the device I purchased is enough to make me spend my time elsewhere. I'm really glad that companies like pine64, frame.work, and purism, etc are starting to emerge. The Roku, Apple, John Deere etc user-hostile approach of "you don't own it, we do. You're renting it from us and we will tell you what is permitted" needs to be defeated.

waynesoftware 5y ago

I’m waiting for flutter support for roku apps

webkike 5y ago

I hate Roku. I bought a Roku tv and it started putting advertisements on the Home Screen.

pixelatedindex 5y ago
When I had bought my Samsung TV in 2017, I too got advertisements in the home bar. I got livid and disconnected it from the internet, and connected my Chromecast and Apple TV to it. Never looked back since.

darepublic 5y ago

Curious about making an app that plays shows on a schedule just the way old tv worked. And my kids can watch their shows but not on demand