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I've heard of electricians who will change a live receptical. I even found this video exhibition https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WERqtFfgcyo https://www.youtube

I've heard of electricians who will change a live receptical. I even found this video exhibition https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WERqtFfgcyo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WERqtFfgcyo

rpmisms 5y ago
Many electricians will do this if needed. My brother-in-law gets shocked with 110v on a regular basis, and doesn't really mind anymore. I don't think many would work on a hot 240v circuit, though.
- dilyevsky 5y ago
  I’ve been accidentally zapped by 110 and 220 and former feels like a tickle compared to latter which was seriously painful
- Spare_account 5y ago
  UK (230V) here, I've observed electricians working on live circuits frequently. That's why tools like this exist, 'safe' for working up to 1000V: https://www.machinemart.co.uk/c/vde--insulated-tools/ https://www.machinemart.co.uk/c/vde--insulated-tools/ Despite being warned not to over and over again, I have replaced multiple electrical outlets and light switches in my home without flipping the breakers
  - laurent92 5y ago
    At least please don’t be seen by kids. They might believe it’s nothing.
  - sbierwagen 5y ago
    I did commercial lighting for a few years. Relamp/reballast or LED retrofits are almost always done during business hours, with the lights on. Big lighting systems usually run at 277V. (Phase-to-neural voltage of 480V three-phase) I would much rather work on a hot 277V lighting fixture than a 120V wall socket. Much more room to work, wire gauge is way thinner. The downside is that you're always on a ladder, so a big shock is comes with a ten foot fall as a free bonus. If I'm touching anything inside a wall, the breaker is getting flipped.
  - ISL 5y ago
    > Despite being warned not to over and over again, I have replaced multiple electrical outlets and light switches in my home without flipping the breakers The consequences at hand make working with even house-voltage electricity a "wicked learning environment" [1]. The first time you get things wrong may be lethal, without the opportunity to learn from experience. Please consider turning the power off the next time you do electrical work. I don't know you, but I still care whether or not you get zapped :). [1] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/experience-studio/202007/experience-kind-vs-wicked https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/experience-studio/20...
  - newaccount74 5y ago
    I've accidentally touched 230V a few times. It happened when I thought I turned off power but I didn't. (which is why you should short live and ground after turning off power to make sure it is actually turned off)
  - IshKebab 5y ago
    "Despite being told I was doing something stupid over and over again, I continued to do that stupid thing."
    - Dylan16807 5y ago
      Yes? Do you have anything more to say? The egg safety standards in the US and EU come to mind. Each standard considers the other standard to be so unsafe it must be banned. But they're both fine.
      - dragonwriter 5y ago
        They are both fine, but probably dangerous to have mixed.
      - IshKebab 5y ago
        I don't know anything about egg, but presumably they don't advocate working on live household electrics.
  - OJFord 5y ago
    That's not 'why' they exist, (at least, that's not my understanding, or why I have a set) it's not easy to not touch anything with anything else, but it's a nice safeguard while poking about somewhere you think is made safe. What I haven't seen (and don't know why?) is a VDE screwdriver in the neon/LED voltage detection style. Personally I even isolate lighting circuits to change a bulb. It almost certainly wouldn't be a problem if I didn't, but it's so easy, why not.
    - LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
      Because [this] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spannungspr%C3%BCfer#/media/Datei:Kenden_Driver2.JPG https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spannungspr%C3%BCfer#/media/Da... is all that is needed to do it. Can you think of a way to do this safely with less commonly available electronics? Get rich quick! :-)
      - OJFord 5y ago
        Sure, but you could also say 'all that's needed' is an appropriately rated multimeter, no need for a 'Spannungsprüfer' (I don't speak German btw!). Those neon/LED drivers (non-(intended)-contact) are in basically every 'dad toolbox' and 'man drawer', a VDE 1000v rated one just seems appealing/like it'd sell well, even if sure, people who actually need that (or should be doing things that do) have better tools for it.
        LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
        I posted that link because I didn't find any other one which illustrated the point I tried to make so well with one large picture. To put it in different words: this exists like pictured because it is the most simple and cheap method to safely implement with currently available parts.
- hansel_der 5y ago
  confirm from experience: 240V is no joking matter, but it's not _that_ dangerous either (otherwise it would be higher)
  - rpmisms 5y ago
    As long as 110 doesn't go through your chest, it's probably fine. I've had 110 through my chest and I was fine. 240 through your chest is a lot scarier.
    - OJFord 5y ago
      Macbooks (since the 'unibody' aluminium design) infamously pass a little stray current through the chassis, even earthed in the UK. It's quite unpleasant if I rest my hand between laptop and desktop keyboard (laptop sometimes to the side) touching both, like a steadily warming burn. Hardly compares to the shock (pun intended) I got when I happened to touch the long-'tingly' light switch at the same time as another well-earthed one through the door though.
- marcosdumay 5y ago
  A residential voltage electric shock has a low probability of killing you, but each one has that probability, and some day you may be unlucky. Knowing how to move around the wire will further reduce the probability, so you can indeed learn to improve your odds. But still, each shock carries that probability (and it's much higher than the things we consider common, like driving a car in a high-speed road). How many times are you ok with putting your life at risk? One should better avoid working on live wires. If you can't avoid, there are gear and safety procedures that may save your life, uncomfortable as they are. There is no reason for getting shocked all the time.
  - Dylan16807 5y ago
    > How many times are you ok with putting your life at risk? That's not the right question to ask. If it was that black and white then you'd never get in a car.
    - marcosdumay 5y ago
      Ok, if you really want a cost-benefit analysis, please state what is the benefit, because out of not bothering to turn the electricity off or not buying some cheap protection gear, I'm out of ideas.
      - Dylan16807 5y ago
        Saving a chunk of time and effort. The same benefit you get from unimportant car trips. Most people go on unimportant car trips just to save a few minutes or for a minor convenience, despite the risk. It's not a huge benefit each time, but it's also not a huge risk each time. So don't round just one side to zero. Also who said they aren't using protective gear like insulated tools? That sentence was talking about electricians after all.
        marcosdumay 5y ago
        Getting a shock is much more dangerous than doing a random car trip. Orders of magnitude more. Switching the power off takes a minute or two (how large is the building?). Looks to me the OP's friend is just rounding the risk on his life to zero due to normalization of deviance alone and you are keen on defending it because "well, if a professional does it, there may be some good reason". Rest assured that plenty of professionals die because of the that kind of thing. (Normalization of deviance is the large cause of death on every dangerous profession, and mostly done by professionals.) By the way, the safety gear for working on life wires is more than insulated tools. Insulating yourself from the wire and the ground are just as important.
jrockway 5y ago
Interesting. I would be inclined to attach ground and neutral first, though. That seems to be the algorithm for all manner of connectors (UK plugs interfacing with outlets, USB, SATA, etc. -- they all make sure ground makes contact before power or data).
- kube-system 5y ago
  Devices connect ground first because if there's a fault when something else connects, they want to be able to send the power to ground. I think his plan was the opposite: to avoid having a path to ground, in the case his body was part of that path.
  - jrockway 5y ago
    Isn't your body the best path to ground when the outlet isn't grounded? I kind of see what he's up to, though. Basically, if you touch the hot wire, or one of the screws that it's attached to, you probably get shocked. That is unavoidable; turn off the power before starting work to minimize your risk. (The risk is, of course, never zero, so do be careful even if you're sure the power is off.) If you connect neutral first and then hot, you still get shocked if you touch the hot wire... but you also short out if the hot wire that you're screwing to the terminal touches the neutral (or ground) wire. That will cause the circuit breaker to open (or failing that, a fire), defeating the purpose of working on an energized system. So I guess this procedure is optimized for uptime, at an increased risk of death.
    - kube-system 5y ago
      I think that is also likely, but I was thinking along the lines of: yes, your body is the best path to ground when the outlet isn't grounded, but, [hot > body > your shoes > floor] is higher resistance than [hot > body > neutral/ground]

I've heard of electricians who will change a live receptical. I even found this video exhibition https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WERqtFfgcyo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WERqtFfgcyo

rpmisms 5y ago

Many electricians will do this if needed. My brother-in-law gets shocked with 110v on a regular basis, and doesn't really mind anymore. I don't think many would work on a hot 240v circuit, though.

dilyevsky 5y ago
I’ve been accidentally zapped by 110 and 220 and former feels like a tickle compared to latter which was seriously painful
Spare_account 5y ago
UK (230V) here, I've observed electricians working on live circuits frequently. That's why tools like this exist, 'safe' for working up to 1000V: https://www.machinemart.co.uk/c/vde--insulated-tools/ https://www.machinemart.co.uk/c/vde--insulated-tools/ Despite being warned not to over and over again, I have replaced multiple electrical outlets and light switches in my home without flipping the breakers
- laurent92 5y ago
  At least please don’t be seen by kids. They might believe it’s nothing.
- sbierwagen 5y ago
  I did commercial lighting for a few years. Relamp/reballast or LED retrofits are almost always done during business hours, with the lights on. Big lighting systems usually run at 277V. (Phase-to-neural voltage of 480V three-phase) I would much rather work on a hot 277V lighting fixture than a 120V wall socket. Much more room to work, wire gauge is way thinner. The downside is that you're always on a ladder, so a big shock is comes with a ten foot fall as a free bonus. If I'm touching anything inside a wall, the breaker is getting flipped.
- ISL 5y ago
  > Despite being warned not to over and over again, I have replaced multiple electrical outlets and light switches in my home without flipping the breakers The consequences at hand make working with even house-voltage electricity a "wicked learning environment" [1]. The first time you get things wrong may be lethal, without the opportunity to learn from experience. Please consider turning the power off the next time you do electrical work. I don't know you, but I still care whether or not you get zapped :). [1] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/experience-studio/202007/experience-kind-vs-wicked https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/experience-studio/20...
- newaccount74 5y ago
  I've accidentally touched 230V a few times. It happened when I thought I turned off power but I didn't. (which is why you should short live and ground after turning off power to make sure it is actually turned off)
- IshKebab 5y ago
  "Despite being told I was doing something stupid over and over again, I continued to do that stupid thing."
  - Dylan16807 5y ago
    Yes? Do you have anything more to say? The egg safety standards in the US and EU come to mind. Each standard considers the other standard to be so unsafe it must be banned. But they're both fine.
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      They are both fine, but probably dangerous to have mixed.
    - IshKebab 5y ago
      I don't know anything about egg, but presumably they don't advocate working on live household electrics.
- OJFord 5y ago
  That's not 'why' they exist, (at least, that's not my understanding, or why I have a set) it's not easy to not touch anything with anything else, but it's a nice safeguard while poking about somewhere you think is made safe. What I haven't seen (and don't know why?) is a VDE screwdriver in the neon/LED voltage detection style. Personally I even isolate lighting circuits to change a bulb. It almost certainly wouldn't be a problem if I didn't, but it's so easy, why not.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
    Because [this] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spannungspr%C3%BCfer#/media/Datei:Kenden_Driver2.JPG https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spannungspr%C3%BCfer#/media/Da... is all that is needed to do it. Can you think of a way to do this safely with less commonly available electronics? Get rich quick! :-)
    - OJFord 5y ago
      Sure, but you could also say 'all that's needed' is an appropriately rated multimeter, no need for a 'Spannungsprüfer' (I don't speak German btw!). Those neon/LED drivers (non-(intended)-contact) are in basically every 'dad toolbox' and 'man drawer', a VDE 1000v rated one just seems appealing/like it'd sell well, even if sure, people who actually need that (or should be doing things that do) have better tools for it.
      - LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
        I posted that link because I didn't find any other one which illustrated the point I tried to make so well with one large picture. To put it in different words: this exists like pictured because it is the most simple and cheap method to safely implement with currently available parts.
hansel_der 5y ago
confirm from experience: 240V is no joking matter, but it's not _that_ dangerous either (otherwise it would be higher)
- rpmisms 5y ago
  As long as 110 doesn't go through your chest, it's probably fine. I've had 110 through my chest and I was fine. 240 through your chest is a lot scarier.
  - OJFord 5y ago
    Macbooks (since the 'unibody' aluminium design) infamously pass a little stray current through the chassis, even earthed in the UK. It's quite unpleasant if I rest my hand between laptop and desktop keyboard (laptop sometimes to the side) touching both, like a steadily warming burn. Hardly compares to the shock (pun intended) I got when I happened to touch the long-'tingly' light switch at the same time as another well-earthed one through the door though.
marcosdumay 5y ago
A residential voltage electric shock has a low probability of killing you, but each one has that probability, and some day you may be unlucky. Knowing how to move around the wire will further reduce the probability, so you can indeed learn to improve your odds. But still, each shock carries that probability (and it's much higher than the things we consider common, like driving a car in a high-speed road). How many times are you ok with putting your life at risk? One should better avoid working on live wires. If you can't avoid, there are gear and safety procedures that may save your life, uncomfortable as they are. There is no reason for getting shocked all the time.
- Dylan16807 5y ago
  > How many times are you ok with putting your life at risk? That's not the right question to ask. If it was that black and white then you'd never get in a car.
  - marcosdumay 5y ago
    Ok, if you really want a cost-benefit analysis, please state what is the benefit, because out of not bothering to turn the electricity off or not buying some cheap protection gear, I'm out of ideas.
    - Dylan16807 5y ago
      Saving a chunk of time and effort. The same benefit you get from unimportant car trips. Most people go on unimportant car trips just to save a few minutes or for a minor convenience, despite the risk. It's not a huge benefit each time, but it's also not a huge risk each time. So don't round just one side to zero. Also who said they aren't using protective gear like insulated tools? That sentence was talking about electricians after all.
      - marcosdumay 5y ago
        Getting a shock is much more dangerous than doing a random car trip. Orders of magnitude more. Switching the power off takes a minute or two (how large is the building?). Looks to me the OP's friend is just rounding the risk on his life to zero due to normalization of deviance alone and you are keen on defending it because "well, if a professional does it, there may be some good reason". Rest assured that plenty of professionals die because of the that kind of thing. (Normalization of deviance is the large cause of death on every dangerous profession, and mostly done by professionals.) By the way, the safety gear for working on life wires is more than insulated tools. Insulating yourself from the wire and the ground are just as important.

jrockway 5y ago

Interesting. I would be inclined to attach ground and neutral first, though. That seems to be the algorithm for all manner of connectors (UK plugs interfacing with outlets, USB, SATA, etc. -- they all make sure ground makes contact before power or data).

kube-system 5y ago
Devices connect ground first because if there's a fault when something else connects, they want to be able to send the power to ground. I think his plan was the opposite: to avoid having a path to ground, in the case his body was part of that path.
- jrockway 5y ago
  Isn't your body the best path to ground when the outlet isn't grounded? I kind of see what he's up to, though. Basically, if you touch the hot wire, or one of the screws that it's attached to, you probably get shocked. That is unavoidable; turn off the power before starting work to minimize your risk. (The risk is, of course, never zero, so do be careful even if you're sure the power is off.) If you connect neutral first and then hot, you still get shocked if you touch the hot wire... but you also short out if the hot wire that you're screwing to the terminal touches the neutral (or ground) wire. That will cause the circuit breaker to open (or failing that, a fire), defeating the purpose of working on an energized system. So I guess this procedure is optimized for uptime, at an increased risk of death.
  - kube-system 5y ago
    I think that is also likely, but I was thinking along the lines of: yes, your body is the best path to ground when the outlet isn't grounded, but, [hot > body > your shoes > floor] is higher resistance than [hot > body > neutral/ground]