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If I take away anything from the new MBPs it's that they are the product of groupthink. A notch and 120Hz only makes sense for phones that scroll and use faceid

If I take away anything from the new MBPs it's that they are the product of groupthink. A notch and 120Hz only makes sense for phones that scroll and use faceid. That screen would've been a win if the camera had been pinhole, which it could've had, because there is no faceid. Dropping in a cheaper keyboard and cutting the touch bar is a mistake. As is including HDMI and a SD card reader and losing a thunderbolt port. Magsafe is nice. The SoC has been optimized for video editing. The space used for 32 graphics cores could've been used to add more regular cores. So it's faster than the M1 to be sure, especially for multi threaded apps but not enough for me as a developer. And the extended battery life is a great plus but as with the 17 inch MBP of 2011, it's heavy AF. Then there is the marketing, which is getting borderline offensive. Why is everything 'Pro'? What does pro even mean? and why is it carved into the metal of the base of the laptop. Wouldn't it have been nice to ditch the marketing at this point? Apple is the largest computing company, everyone knows what that is now. Perhaps I don't want nonsense calved into my product. As far as I can see Pro means OverPRiced. So to summarize an overpriced, heavy, video editing workstation, with legacy ports nobody has used since 2015. $5000 waste.

y7 5y ago
I think that for a lot of professionals, dropping the touch bar, including HDMI, more graphics processing power (which is especially useful for those in the graphics/video industry), and more battery life, at the cost of a higher weight and price, provide the right trade-offs.
- greenwoman 5y ago
  So it's a graphics editing workstation for the laymen with too much money. And that's fine. But it's not a developer system.
  - comeonseriously 5y ago
    > But it's not a developer system. I think Apple's idea of a "pro" is not necessarily someone who spends time inside of a text editor all day.
    - slantyyz 5y ago
      > I think Apple's idea of a "pro" is not necessarily someone who spends time inside of a text editor all day. I think Apple's notion of "pro" includes people who spend time in front of a text editor all day. It just doesn't include ALL people who spend time in front of a text editor all day. Developer is a very broad term. I am no Apple fan, but I would be lying if these new Macs aren't more than satisfactory for a large number of developers. Maybe not for developers who have specific or advanced needs, but I think plenty of developers would be super happy with these new Macs.
      - drcongo 5y ago
        I'm a developer and these laptops are exactly what I was hoping they were going to release. Perfect in every way.
  - matwood 5y ago
    > But it's not a developer system. Define developer system. I've exclusively used Macs for development for over a decade.
heavymark 5y ago
If they don't have the notch, then you get the same real estate as of the current macs. Instead with the notch they are able to cut out more space out of the top bezels that can now be used for the menu bar. So you are just getting more available space than you would have otherwise. The didn't add a notch that goes down further than existing MBP bezels go, so they didn't add it to add more things such as Face ID. They just simply removed the bezel from the left and right.
- greenwoman 5y ago
  I get that, but what about aesthetics? I stare at that part of the screen every time I use the computer. Now I'm looking at a black square hole.
  - dylan604 5y ago
    You stare at the bezel all day long? Or you stare at the empty spot in the menu all day long? Either way makes no sense to me. What is it you are staring at all day long?
    - drcongo 5y ago
      99% sure this user is just trolling you.
      - Jtsummers 5y ago
        Most of the hyperbolic Apple complainers seem to be trolls to me. "But the notch!" You mean, the option they chose which gives you more screen real estate (if you show your menu bar) and no loss of screen real estate (if you default hide it, like me)? "But USB-A!" You mean the port that doesn't support as much throughput (power or data) as USB-C? The one you can get a cheap adaptor for if you really need it? The one you haven't had on your MBP for 6 years anyways?
- slantyyz 5y ago
  I think what's happening here is "if you're going to give me 75 cents, you may as well have given me the full dollar". For most people, that notch tradeoff is fine, but there will be a segment of people who care more about having those extra pixels.
InternetPerson 5y ago
"Dropping in a cheaper keyboard and cutting the touch bar is a mistake." Sometimes people state their opinions as facts. Sometimes people don't say anything to defend or explain their opinions. They just blurt them out. An it makes the internet so fun!!
- greenwoman 5y ago
  Doesn't need more explanation. That touch bar was very useful.
  - slantyyz 5y ago
    > That touch bar was very useful. To some people, not all. There was probably just as large a contingent of people who hated it as there was who loved it. I think Apple should have made it an optional BYO feature, but they didn't so that's what we're stuck with.
  - api 5y ago
    For what? I've never seen any use case. Were there specific apps for specific markets that made use of it?
    - orchee 5y ago
      My favorite one was MS Word/MS Office. It was always contextual, just quick tap on touchbar without reaching mouse and clicking option on ribbon menu. TBH I think that from apps that I used daily only MS and Apple tried to figure out how to make touch bar usable.
tlholaday 5y ago
> What does pro even mean? It means “the materials and manufacturing budget is increased to allow the designers to push the diminishing-returns boundary further.” For competitive use-cases, where an increase in capability makes the difference between winning and losing, paying the increased cost of the more capable tool is a sound tactic.
- greenwoman 5y ago
  That's meaningless marketing nonsense.
  - dangus 5y ago
    And it's been called the MacBook Pro for 15 years, I think it's time to get over it.
    - ghaff 5y ago
      It was admittedly likely a more meaningful distinction when a plain (white) MacBook was clearly much more oriented towards students and casual users than professionals using it day to day for business purposes.
dangus 5y ago
Apple is expensive, they don't know what they're doing, it's not really Pro, etc, etc, etc. These unique and new complaints about Apple must keep their executives up at night as they execute mistake after mistake, only becoming the most valuable company in the world through continual Acts of God. Show me another laptop that does all these things: 1. Benchmarks >12000 in Cinebench R23 (i.e., very solid CPU performance) 2. GPU benchmarks at or above an RTX 3060 laptop 3. Over 10 hours battery life for typical light web browsing tasks 4. Under 40dB of noise at full fan speed 5. No loss of benchmarking performance after 30 minutes of load (i.e., no thermal throttling) (Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhqCC70ZfDM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhqCC70ZfDM) They don't exist. Apple is selling a literal unicorn and you're complaining that the unicorn should come with glitter.
- cudgy 5y ago
  They are impressive machines, but you can’t run Windows on it … yet, which is a big deal for many. Very few games are optimized for it, which is a primary use case for most average users to require horsepower like this. Hopefully, these drawbacks will change if enough people buy these M1 machines, but there is no guarantee.
  - dangus 5y ago
    > which is a primary use case for most average users to require horsepower like this I think this is a big misunderstanding of Apple's customer base for these systems. These GPUs are optimized for rendering tasks, not for FPS count for gaming. > Very few games are optimized for it...Hopefully, these drawbacks will change if enough people buy these M1 machines, but there is no guarantee. There is a guarantee, and that guarantee is hardware-level compatibility with iOS and iPad platforms. There's a whole section of the Mac App Store called "Great iPhone and iPad Games for Mac with M1" iOS and iPad probably represent a larger gaming installed base and revenue than PC and consoles combined. Opinions may vary, but personally I think that being able to run Windows on your Mac is far, far down on the list on reasons to purchase a Mac. It was a very handy tool to have especially 15 years ago when the Mac didn't have as much commercial support, but in 2021 I don't think a lot of potential Mac customers really care about Windows compatibility.
celsoazevedo 5y ago
I don't like the notch, but the 120Hz is nice to have (we also scroll and have transitions on a computer). I don't use HDMI anymore, but it doesn't hurt to have it. SD Cards? That's what my camera uses, so it will be used. Touch bar? I have no use for it (in fact I use it with the old style layout). PR? Ignore it. My main "issue" with the new laptops is the price and the notch (I don't mind the lack of face ID). Different people have different needs. This laptop probably isn't for you.

y7 5y ago

I think that for a lot of professionals, dropping the touch bar, including HDMI, more graphics processing power (which is especially useful for those in the graphics/video industry), and more battery life, at the cost of a higher weight and price, provide the right trade-offs.

greenwoman 5y ago
So it's a graphics editing workstation for the laymen with too much money. And that's fine. But it's not a developer system.
- comeonseriously 5y ago
  > But it's not a developer system. I think Apple's idea of a "pro" is not necessarily someone who spends time inside of a text editor all day.
  - slantyyz 5y ago
    > I think Apple's idea of a "pro" is not necessarily someone who spends time inside of a text editor all day. I think Apple's notion of "pro" includes people who spend time in front of a text editor all day. It just doesn't include ALL people who spend time in front of a text editor all day. Developer is a very broad term. I am no Apple fan, but I would be lying if these new Macs aren't more than satisfactory for a large number of developers. Maybe not for developers who have specific or advanced needs, but I think plenty of developers would be super happy with these new Macs.
    - drcongo 5y ago
      I'm a developer and these laptops are exactly what I was hoping they were going to release. Perfect in every way.
- matwood 5y ago
  > But it's not a developer system. Define developer system. I've exclusively used Macs for development for over a decade.

heavymark 5y ago

If they don't have the notch, then you get the same real estate as of the current macs. Instead with the notch they are able to cut out more space out of the top bezels that can now be used for the menu bar. So you are just getting more available space than you would have otherwise. The didn't add a notch that goes down further than existing MBP bezels go, so they didn't add it to add more things such as Face ID. They just simply removed the bezel from the left and right.

greenwoman 5y ago
I get that, but what about aesthetics? I stare at that part of the screen every time I use the computer. Now I'm looking at a black square hole.
- dylan604 5y ago
  You stare at the bezel all day long? Or you stare at the empty spot in the menu all day long? Either way makes no sense to me. What is it you are staring at all day long?
  - drcongo 5y ago
    99% sure this user is just trolling you.
    - Jtsummers 5y ago
      Most of the hyperbolic Apple complainers seem to be trolls to me. "But the notch!" You mean, the option they chose which gives you more screen real estate (if you show your menu bar) and no loss of screen real estate (if you default hide it, like me)? "But USB-A!" You mean the port that doesn't support as much throughput (power or data) as USB-C? The one you can get a cheap adaptor for if you really need it? The one you haven't had on your MBP for 6 years anyways?
slantyyz 5y ago
I think what's happening here is "if you're going to give me 75 cents, you may as well have given me the full dollar". For most people, that notch tradeoff is fine, but there will be a segment of people who care more about having those extra pixels.

InternetPerson 5y ago

"Dropping in a cheaper keyboard and cutting the touch bar is a mistake." Sometimes people state their opinions as facts. Sometimes people don't say anything to defend or explain their opinions. They just blurt them out. An it makes the internet so fun!!

greenwoman 5y ago
Doesn't need more explanation. That touch bar was very useful.
- slantyyz 5y ago
  > That touch bar was very useful. To some people, not all. There was probably just as large a contingent of people who hated it as there was who loved it. I think Apple should have made it an optional BYO feature, but they didn't so that's what we're stuck with.
- api 5y ago
  For what? I've never seen any use case. Were there specific apps for specific markets that made use of it?
  - orchee 5y ago
    My favorite one was MS Word/MS Office. It was always contextual, just quick tap on touchbar without reaching mouse and clicking option on ribbon menu. TBH I think that from apps that I used daily only MS and Apple tried to figure out how to make touch bar usable.

tlholaday 5y ago

> What does pro even mean? It means “the materials and manufacturing budget is increased to allow the designers to push the diminishing-returns boundary further.” For competitive use-cases, where an increase in capability makes the difference between winning and losing, paying the increased cost of the more capable tool is a sound tactic.

greenwoman 5y ago
That's meaningless marketing nonsense.
- dangus 5y ago
  And it's been called the MacBook Pro for 15 years, I think it's time to get over it.
  - ghaff 5y ago
    It was admittedly likely a more meaningful distinction when a plain (white) MacBook was clearly much more oriented towards students and casual users than professionals using it day to day for business purposes.

dangus 5y ago

Apple is expensive, they don't know what they're doing, it's not really Pro, etc, etc, etc. These unique and new complaints about Apple must keep their executives up at night as they execute mistake after mistake, only becoming the most valuable company in the world through continual Acts of God. Show me another laptop that does all these things: 1. Benchmarks >12000 in Cinebench R23 (i.e., very solid CPU performance) 2. GPU benchmarks at or above an RTX 3060 laptop 3. Over 10 hours battery life for typical light web browsing tasks 4. Under 40dB of noise at full fan speed 5. No loss of benchmarking performance after 30 minutes of load (i.e., no thermal throttling) (Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhqCC70ZfDM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhqCC70ZfDM) They don't exist. Apple is selling a literal unicorn and you're complaining that the unicorn should come with glitter.

cudgy 5y ago
They are impressive machines, but you can’t run Windows on it … yet, which is a big deal for many. Very few games are optimized for it, which is a primary use case for most average users to require horsepower like this. Hopefully, these drawbacks will change if enough people buy these M1 machines, but there is no guarantee.
- dangus 5y ago
  > which is a primary use case for most average users to require horsepower like this I think this is a big misunderstanding of Apple's customer base for these systems. These GPUs are optimized for rendering tasks, not for FPS count for gaming. > Very few games are optimized for it...Hopefully, these drawbacks will change if enough people buy these M1 machines, but there is no guarantee. There is a guarantee, and that guarantee is hardware-level compatibility with iOS and iPad platforms. There's a whole section of the Mac App Store called "Great iPhone and iPad Games for Mac with M1" iOS and iPad probably represent a larger gaming installed base and revenue than PC and consoles combined. Opinions may vary, but personally I think that being able to run Windows on your Mac is far, far down on the list on reasons to purchase a Mac. It was a very handy tool to have especially 15 years ago when the Mac didn't have as much commercial support, but in 2021 I don't think a lot of potential Mac customers really care about Windows compatibility.

celsoazevedo 5y ago

I don't like the notch, but the 120Hz is nice to have (we also scroll and have transitions on a computer). I don't use HDMI anymore, but it doesn't hurt to have it. SD Cards? That's what my camera uses, so it will be used. Touch bar? I have no use for it (in fact I use it with the old style layout). PR? Ignore it. My main "issue" with the new laptops is the price and the notch (I don't mind the lack of face ID). Different people have different needs. This laptop probably isn't for you.