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MacBook Pro 14-inch and 16-inch review: Apple’s mighty Macs

35 points by BrentOzar 5y ago

greenwoman 5y ago
If I take away anything from the new MBPs it's that they are the product of groupthink. A notch and 120Hz only makes sense for phones that scroll and use faceid. That screen would've been a win if the camera had been pinhole, which it could've had, because there is no faceid. Dropping in a cheaper keyboard and cutting the touch bar is a mistake. As is including HDMI and a SD card reader and losing a thunderbolt port. Magsafe is nice. The SoC has been optimized for video editing. The space used for 32 graphics cores could've been used to add more regular cores. So it's faster than the M1 to be sure, especially for multi threaded apps but not enough for me as a developer. And the extended battery life is a great plus but as with the 17 inch MBP of 2011, it's heavy AF. Then there is the marketing, which is getting borderline offensive. Why is everything 'Pro'? What does pro even mean? and why is it carved into the metal of the base of the laptop. Wouldn't it have been nice to ditch the marketing at this point? Apple is the largest computing company, everyone knows what that is now. Perhaps I don't want nonsense calved into my product. As far as I can see Pro means OverPRiced. So to summarize an overpriced, heavy, video editing workstation, with legacy ports nobody has used since 2015. $5000 waste.
- y7 5y ago
  I think that for a lot of professionals, dropping the touch bar, including HDMI, more graphics processing power (which is especially useful for those in the graphics/video industry), and more battery life, at the cost of a higher weight and price, provide the right trade-offs.
  - greenwoman 5y ago
    So it's a graphics editing workstation for the laymen with too much money. And that's fine. But it's not a developer system.
    - comeonseriously 5y ago
      > But it's not a developer system. I think Apple's idea of a "pro" is not necessarily someone who spends time inside of a text editor all day.
      - slantyyz 5y ago
        > I think Apple's idea of a "pro" is not necessarily someone who spends time inside of a text editor all day. I think Apple's notion of "pro" includes people who spend time in front of a text editor all day. It just doesn't include ALL people who spend time in front of a text editor all day. Developer is a very broad term. I am no Apple fan, but I would be lying if these new Macs aren't more than satisfactory for a large number of developers. Maybe not for developers who have specific or advanced needs, but I think plenty of developers would be super happy with these new Macs.
        drcongo 5y ago
        I'm a developer and these laptops are exactly what I was hoping they were going to release. Perfect in every way.
    - matwood 5y ago
      > But it's not a developer system. Define developer system. I've exclusively used Macs for development for over a decade.
- heavymark 5y ago
  If they don't have the notch, then you get the same real estate as of the current macs. Instead with the notch they are able to cut out more space out of the top bezels that can now be used for the menu bar. So you are just getting more available space than you would have otherwise. The didn't add a notch that goes down further than existing MBP bezels go, so they didn't add it to add more things such as Face ID. They just simply removed the bezel from the left and right.
  - greenwoman 5y ago
    I get that, but what about aesthetics? I stare at that part of the screen every time I use the computer. Now I'm looking at a black square hole.
    - dylan604 5y ago
      You stare at the bezel all day long? Or you stare at the empty spot in the menu all day long? Either way makes no sense to me. What is it you are staring at all day long?
      - drcongo 5y ago
        99% sure this user is just trolling you.
        Jtsummers 5y ago
        Most of the hyperbolic Apple complainers seem to be trolls to me. "But the notch!" You mean, the option they chose which gives you more screen real estate (if you show your menu bar) and no loss of screen real estate (if you default hide it, like me)? "But USB-A!" You mean the port that doesn't support as much throughput (power or data) as USB-C? The one you can get a cheap adaptor for if you really need it? The one you haven't had on your MBP for 6 years anyways?
  - slantyyz 5y ago
    I think what's happening here is "if you're going to give me 75 cents, you may as well have given me the full dollar". For most people, that notch tradeoff is fine, but there will be a segment of people who care more about having those extra pixels.
- InternetPerson 5y ago
  "Dropping in a cheaper keyboard and cutting the touch bar is a mistake." Sometimes people state their opinions as facts. Sometimes people don't say anything to defend or explain their opinions. They just blurt them out. An it makes the internet so fun!!
  - greenwoman 5y ago
    Doesn't need more explanation. That touch bar was very useful.
    - slantyyz 5y ago
      > That touch bar was very useful. To some people, not all. There was probably just as large a contingent of people who hated it as there was who loved it. I think Apple should have made it an optional BYO feature, but they didn't so that's what we're stuck with.
    - api 5y ago
      For what? I've never seen any use case. Were there specific apps for specific markets that made use of it?
      - orchee 5y ago
        My favorite one was MS Word/MS Office. It was always contextual, just quick tap on touchbar without reaching mouse and clicking option on ribbon menu. TBH I think that from apps that I used daily only MS and Apple tried to figure out how to make touch bar usable.
- tlholaday 5y ago
  > What does pro even mean? It means “the materials and manufacturing budget is increased to allow the designers to push the diminishing-returns boundary further.” For competitive use-cases, where an increase in capability makes the difference between winning and losing, paying the increased cost of the more capable tool is a sound tactic.
  - greenwoman 5y ago
    That's meaningless marketing nonsense.
    - dangus 5y ago
      And it's been called the MacBook Pro for 15 years, I think it's time to get over it.
      - ghaff 5y ago
        It was admittedly likely a more meaningful distinction when a plain (white) MacBook was clearly much more oriented towards students and casual users than professionals using it day to day for business purposes.
- dangus 5y ago
  Apple is expensive, they don't know what they're doing, it's not really Pro, etc, etc, etc. These unique and new complaints about Apple must keep their executives up at night as they execute mistake after mistake, only becoming the most valuable company in the world through continual Acts of God. Show me another laptop that does all these things: 1. Benchmarks >12000 in Cinebench R23 (i.e., very solid CPU performance) 2. GPU benchmarks at or above an RTX 3060 laptop 3. Over 10 hours battery life for typical light web browsing tasks 4. Under 40dB of noise at full fan speed 5. No loss of benchmarking performance after 30 minutes of load (i.e., no thermal throttling) (Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhqCC70ZfDM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhqCC70ZfDM) They don't exist. Apple is selling a literal unicorn and you're complaining that the unicorn should come with glitter.
  - cudgy 5y ago
    They are impressive machines, but you can’t run Windows on it … yet, which is a big deal for many. Very few games are optimized for it, which is a primary use case for most average users to require horsepower like this. Hopefully, these drawbacks will change if enough people buy these M1 machines, but there is no guarantee.
    - dangus 5y ago
      > which is a primary use case for most average users to require horsepower like this I think this is a big misunderstanding of Apple's customer base for these systems. These GPUs are optimized for rendering tasks, not for FPS count for gaming. > Very few games are optimized for it...Hopefully, these drawbacks will change if enough people buy these M1 machines, but there is no guarantee. There is a guarantee, and that guarantee is hardware-level compatibility with iOS and iPad platforms. There's a whole section of the Mac App Store called "Great iPhone and iPad Games for Mac with M1" iOS and iPad probably represent a larger gaming installed base and revenue than PC and consoles combined. Opinions may vary, but personally I think that being able to run Windows on your Mac is far, far down on the list on reasons to purchase a Mac. It was a very handy tool to have especially 15 years ago when the Mac didn't have as much commercial support, but in 2021 I don't think a lot of potential Mac customers really care about Windows compatibility.
- celsoazevedo 5y ago
  I don't like the notch, but the 120Hz is nice to have (we also scroll and have transitions on a computer). I don't use HDMI anymore, but it doesn't hurt to have it. SD Cards? That's what my camera uses, so it will be used. Touch bar? I have no use for it (in fact I use it with the old style layout). PR? Ignore it. My main "issue" with the new laptops is the price and the notch (I don't mind the lack of face ID). Different people have different needs. This laptop probably isn't for you.
kcb 5y ago
From the reviews I've seen so far, seems like Apples "Relative Perfomance Points" benchmarks were as misleading as expected for the GPU. The M1 Max is more like a 3060 in performance not a 3080.
- AnEro 5y ago
  I'm going to be honest, I didn't have the expectations that any custom hardware would perform like a companies benchmarks claim they do. Since they would be cherry picked to hell and back, especially apple. The fact it has a geekbench score that makes my gen2 threadripper look bad and can still have 3060 performance in a laptop is still very impressive to me.
  - atonse 5y ago
    As much as I give Apple crap for some of their marketing, their CPU and battery claims usually tend to be quite spot on and reproducible by reviewers. That's what I've noticed over the years.
- neogodless 5y ago
  If you look at Anandtech[0], you can get a clearer picture. In synthetic, isolated benchmarks, the GPU could have similar hardware performance to an RTX 3080 mobile. However... once you throw in the lack of games compiled for ARM and designed to run on Metal, most of that potential is wasted. Having never owned an Apple product, these sound like excellent machines, but I still want to be able to play the games on my expensive, powerful hardware. So I'd like to see what they can do if they are targeted. The M1 from last year didn't seem to change anything. It'll be interesting to see if this does. Will increasing market share and consumer demand be enough to push some more development of games for these machines? At least in theory the hardware is there now for reasonable gaming performance. [0] https://www.anandtech.com/show/17024/apple-m1-max-performance-review/6 https://www.anandtech.com/show/17024/apple-m1-max-performanc...
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
bla3 5y ago
The review doesn't even mention continued absence of USB-A. Am I weird that I still need USB-A adapters all the time? Most of the new MBP is about solving problems people actually have instead of the ones Apple wishes they had.
- neogodless 5y ago
  Anecdotally, I barely use USB of any kind on my laptop (a gaming PC). Bluetooth mouse, headphones, built-in card reader. On my desktop... I have 4-6 USB-A devices plugged in at any given moment. If I was buying a Macbook Pro for work, it would absolutely be getting a Thunderbolt 4 compatible dock, full of all the port goodness I needed.
- williamstein 5y ago
  From TFA: “Sure, you’ll still need adapters to connect older USB Type-A devices…”
- jolux 5y ago
  If you have to connect to a lot of third-party stuff that uses USB-A then I would say it’s not weird. I migrated all my personal devices and cables to USB-C though and it’s much better overall.
  - 1-6 5y ago
    I’m not very happy with USB-C because it’s harder to plug in without looking. With USB-A, you can feel the port. With lightning, the tip of the connector is rounded so it’s easier as well.
    - orchee 5y ago
      After reading that USB-A is easier to plug in than USB-C for anyone I've just realized that we - as a species - will never agree 100% on anything.
    - greedo 5y ago
      Except that 50% of the time, you have the USB-A connector upside down.
varispeed 5y ago
It's a shame that manufacturers nor the reviewers no longer publish where tested equipment has been made. Why hiding such a fact? These days you really have to dig deep to find this seemingly basic information. Often you can only learn when you actually purchase the product and look at labelling. What would be the reason for that?
- josephpmay 5y ago
  All of Apple’s hardware devices sold in the US are manufactured in China, with the exception (I think?) of the Mac Pro. Their chips are fabbed in Taiwan. This has been the case the decades and is pretty much common knowledge. Nobody is hiding anything.
  - varispeed 5y ago
    I asked a few of my friends where they think Apple products are made and all of them but one said they make it in California or Silicon Valley. It's not a common knowledge.
    - NhanH 5y ago
      It said right there on the box: made in China, assembled in California, and has been that way for 10 year-ish If it is not common knowledge in your circle of friends, it is not Apple’s fault
      - pests 5y ago
        Maybe it's not common knowledge for you either? I don't own any iDevices but doesn't it say "Designed in California, Assembled in China"?
        NhanH 5y ago
        The link to China is common knowledge. I made no claim on the particular wording of the statement :-)
herodotus 5y ago
My impression is that the design team felt somewhat liberated from Jony Ive's design aesthetic, hence the elimination of the Touch Bar, the return of MagSafe, the SD slot, and (most jarringly to me) the curved under-body. Nevertheless, I welcome the changes (except for the curve).
- ActionHank 5y ago
  It's wild that he had that much control over their product designs. I have to believe there were people at Apple who would have opposed the changes. Were they overruled or too scared to speak up?
  - InitialLastName 5y ago
    In product design within a large (or even medium) organization it takes strong institutional restraint to avoid generating camels (horses designed by committee). The way that Apple appears to have consistently avoided that pitfall (for whatever other pitfalls they did fall into) is to heavily empower a single person to make the fundamental design decisions and to be the source of red light/green light for the rest of the designs. Both Jobs and Ives filled that role with varying degrees of success; it will be interesting to see what institutional structure arises with Ives mostly out of the picture. Remember, Apple is sustaining the one of the highest-cap businesses on Earth, with ~200k employees, on approximately 10 hardware products. That takes an immense amount of focus.
- toyg 5y ago
  But why do they then have to go and f##k things up with the damn notch...?
  - drclau 5y ago
    You get more screen estate with the notch, than without it, because they would have taken the entire horizontal space and make it a piano black bar. And because Apple controls the software too, I expect the integration will be good. I am more concerned about the risk of cracking the screen, because it is so close to the edge now. Does anyone know how important the width of the edge is for the safety of the screen?
nkotov 5y ago
I can't be the only one who thinks this new design is ugly. Just something about it feels off.
- midoreigh 5y ago
  I feel the same. Although I appreciate all the cooling performance and ports, I kind of feel bad about the new design.
- hugocbp 5y ago
  You are not the only one. I bought one, really excited to replace my 2014 Macbook, but the design won't be what I like the most, I'm sure. For me, it somehow already feels dated. The black background on the keyboard and the "curved but just slightly" bottom are not to my taste. I wish they would have gone full square like some of the leaks for the M2 Macbook Air show. In the end, though, I'm still happy they didn't go with form over function for this one. I've been holding on my old 2014 one just because from 2016 onwards Apple decided to cripple Macbook function for style. I will take an ugly, powerful, useful Macbook anyday over a beautiful one full of limitations.
- wodenokoto 5y ago
  It is definitely an attempt to fill out the corners of the old design in order to make room for all the new stuff. It looks way thicker then the previous model. I do like the keyboard and the rounded screen, but the overall shape is not particularly elegant.
YPPH 5y ago
I really want to purchase this, but I'm still waiting for clarity on the Windows on ARM licensing situation. It's not going to be possible for me to use this at work in the Insiders build licensing grey area. It's regrettable that the only thing hindering Windows on Apple silicon is a silly business decision by Microsoft.
- vbezhenar 5y ago
  I guess that Parallels wouldn't spend engineering resources without some agreements from Microsoft. I, personally, need properly virtualized x86 Windows. Might be slow, whatever, even Windows XP is enough for me. Without x86 Windows I would need to rent a VM and that's a nuisance. Is it possible to just directly run qemu in some kind of emulation mode? I know that docker runs x86 containers, so there should be some way. Emulating x86 is one thing that stops me from ordering Macbook.
  - cassianoleal 5y ago
    Both Docker Desktop and Podman Machine run emulated x86 machines via QEMU. I never tried to run Windows on it but I imagine it's doable. I have no idea about performance though.
  - ghaff 5y ago
    If Windows on x86 were important to me, there's no way I would be using some unsupported emulation. Even if I wanted Apple Silicon for some other reason, I'd still just run a Windows x86 laptop (or server) for applications where it's needed.
cassianoleal 5y ago
> the MagSafe connection is less likely to cause accidental falls and you won't have to use a precious USB-C port just to stay powered up. This is not quite true IMO. The prior line of MacBook Pros (not the M1 as I see that as a glorified Air) had 4 USB-c ports vs 3 on the newer ones. I could also use one of the 4 (with a dongle) for both charging and pluggin in peripherals, so it's in essence one less USB-C port however I look at it.
- matwood 5y ago
  Agreed. I think adding back some legacy ports is a cover for not being able to add a 4th tb4 port to the M1. I would have preferred to stick with 4 tb4 ports and none of the legacy ports.
  - cassianoleal 5y ago
    I actually find more value in the current year's port setup but everybody's needs are different so some will gain, some will lose. I just found the statement in the article to be untrue. I've never used 4 USB-C/TB ports at the same time, even when charging. I have used the same port for charging and HDMI via a dongle though. I also like the SD card slot, even though I mostly use micro-SDs. Depending on how much an SD protrudes on the side, keeping an adapter in permanently might solve for that though.
    - Aaargh20318 5y ago
      I used all 4 ports and would have liked more. The ports were used for power, external monitor, ethernet, and an USB hub (audio interface, backup drive). I could have used at least 2 additional ports to connect and iPhone and Android phone (for development).
dang 5y ago
Ongoing related threads: 14-inch MacBook Pro review: A Mac Pro in your backpack - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28988524 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28988524 - Oct 2021 (126 comments) Apple's M1 Pro, M1 Max SoCs Investigated - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28987276 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28987276 - Oct 2021 (78 comments) Previously: New 16-inch MBP with M1 Max to feature High Power Mode for intensive workloads - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28950733 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28950733 - Oct 2021 (105 comments) Apple M1 Max Geekbench Score - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28933663 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28933663 - Oct 2021 (870 comments) MacBook Pro 14-inch and MacBook Pro 16-inch - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28908383 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28908383 - Oct 2021 (2056 comments) Apple’s new M1 Pro and M1 Max processors - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28908031 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28908031 - Oct 2021 (981 comments)

35 points by BrentOzar 5y ago

If I take away anything from the new MBPs it's that they are the product of groupthink. A notch and 120Hz only makes sense for phones that scroll and use faceid. That screen would've been a win if the camera had been pinhole, which it could've had, because there is no faceid. Dropping in a cheaper keyboard and cutting the touch bar is a mistake. As is including HDMI and a SD card reader and losing a thunderbolt port. Magsafe is nice. The SoC has been optimized for video editing. The space used for 32 graphics cores could've been used to add more regular cores. So it's faster than the M1 to be sure, especially for multi threaded apps but not enough for me as a developer. And the extended battery life is a great plus but as with the 17 inch MBP of 2011, it's heavy AF. Then there is the marketing, which is getting borderline offensive. Why is everything 'Pro'? What does pro even mean? and why is it carved into the metal of the base of the laptop. Wouldn't it have been nice to ditch the marketing at this point? Apple is the largest computing company, everyone knows what that is now. Perhaps I don't want nonsense calved into my product. As far as I can see Pro means OverPRiced. So to summarize an overpriced, heavy, video editing workstation, with legacy ports nobody has used since 2015. $5000 waste.

y7 5y ago
I think that for a lot of professionals, dropping the touch bar, including HDMI, more graphics processing power (which is especially useful for those in the graphics/video industry), and more battery life, at the cost of a higher weight and price, provide the right trade-offs.
- greenwoman 5y ago
  So it's a graphics editing workstation for the laymen with too much money. And that's fine. But it's not a developer system.
  - comeonseriously 5y ago
    > But it's not a developer system. I think Apple's idea of a "pro" is not necessarily someone who spends time inside of a text editor all day.
    - slantyyz 5y ago
      > I think Apple's idea of a "pro" is not necessarily someone who spends time inside of a text editor all day. I think Apple's notion of "pro" includes people who spend time in front of a text editor all day. It just doesn't include ALL people who spend time in front of a text editor all day. Developer is a very broad term. I am no Apple fan, but I would be lying if these new Macs aren't more than satisfactory for a large number of developers. Maybe not for developers who have specific or advanced needs, but I think plenty of developers would be super happy with these new Macs.
      - drcongo 5y ago
        I'm a developer and these laptops are exactly what I was hoping they were going to release. Perfect in every way.
  - matwood 5y ago
    > But it's not a developer system. Define developer system. I've exclusively used Macs for development for over a decade.
heavymark 5y ago
If they don't have the notch, then you get the same real estate as of the current macs. Instead with the notch they are able to cut out more space out of the top bezels that can now be used for the menu bar. So you are just getting more available space than you would have otherwise. The didn't add a notch that goes down further than existing MBP bezels go, so they didn't add it to add more things such as Face ID. They just simply removed the bezel from the left and right.
- greenwoman 5y ago
  I get that, but what about aesthetics? I stare at that part of the screen every time I use the computer. Now I'm looking at a black square hole.
  - dylan604 5y ago
    You stare at the bezel all day long? Or you stare at the empty spot in the menu all day long? Either way makes no sense to me. What is it you are staring at all day long?
    - drcongo 5y ago
      99% sure this user is just trolling you.
      - Jtsummers 5y ago
        Most of the hyperbolic Apple complainers seem to be trolls to me. "But the notch!" You mean, the option they chose which gives you more screen real estate (if you show your menu bar) and no loss of screen real estate (if you default hide it, like me)? "But USB-A!" You mean the port that doesn't support as much throughput (power or data) as USB-C? The one you can get a cheap adaptor for if you really need it? The one you haven't had on your MBP for 6 years anyways?
- slantyyz 5y ago
  I think what's happening here is "if you're going to give me 75 cents, you may as well have given me the full dollar". For most people, that notch tradeoff is fine, but there will be a segment of people who care more about having those extra pixels.
InternetPerson 5y ago
"Dropping in a cheaper keyboard and cutting the touch bar is a mistake." Sometimes people state their opinions as facts. Sometimes people don't say anything to defend or explain their opinions. They just blurt them out. An it makes the internet so fun!!
- greenwoman 5y ago
  Doesn't need more explanation. That touch bar was very useful.
  - slantyyz 5y ago
    > That touch bar was very useful. To some people, not all. There was probably just as large a contingent of people who hated it as there was who loved it. I think Apple should have made it an optional BYO feature, but they didn't so that's what we're stuck with.
  - api 5y ago
    For what? I've never seen any use case. Were there specific apps for specific markets that made use of it?
    - orchee 5y ago
      My favorite one was MS Word/MS Office. It was always contextual, just quick tap on touchbar without reaching mouse and clicking option on ribbon menu. TBH I think that from apps that I used daily only MS and Apple tried to figure out how to make touch bar usable.
tlholaday 5y ago
> What does pro even mean? It means “the materials and manufacturing budget is increased to allow the designers to push the diminishing-returns boundary further.” For competitive use-cases, where an increase in capability makes the difference between winning and losing, paying the increased cost of the more capable tool is a sound tactic.
- greenwoman 5y ago
  That's meaningless marketing nonsense.
  - dangus 5y ago
    And it's been called the MacBook Pro for 15 years, I think it's time to get over it.
    - ghaff 5y ago
      It was admittedly likely a more meaningful distinction when a plain (white) MacBook was clearly much more oriented towards students and casual users than professionals using it day to day for business purposes.
dangus 5y ago
Apple is expensive, they don't know what they're doing, it's not really Pro, etc, etc, etc. These unique and new complaints about Apple must keep their executives up at night as they execute mistake after mistake, only becoming the most valuable company in the world through continual Acts of God. Show me another laptop that does all these things: 1. Benchmarks >12000 in Cinebench R23 (i.e., very solid CPU performance) 2. GPU benchmarks at or above an RTX 3060 laptop 3. Over 10 hours battery life for typical light web browsing tasks 4. Under 40dB of noise at full fan speed 5. No loss of benchmarking performance after 30 minutes of load (i.e., no thermal throttling) (Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhqCC70ZfDM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhqCC70ZfDM) They don't exist. Apple is selling a literal unicorn and you're complaining that the unicorn should come with glitter.
- cudgy 5y ago
  They are impressive machines, but you can’t run Windows on it … yet, which is a big deal for many. Very few games are optimized for it, which is a primary use case for most average users to require horsepower like this. Hopefully, these drawbacks will change if enough people buy these M1 machines, but there is no guarantee.
  - dangus 5y ago
    > which is a primary use case for most average users to require horsepower like this I think this is a big misunderstanding of Apple's customer base for these systems. These GPUs are optimized for rendering tasks, not for FPS count for gaming. > Very few games are optimized for it...Hopefully, these drawbacks will change if enough people buy these M1 machines, but there is no guarantee. There is a guarantee, and that guarantee is hardware-level compatibility with iOS and iPad platforms. There's a whole section of the Mac App Store called "Great iPhone and iPad Games for Mac with M1" iOS and iPad probably represent a larger gaming installed base and revenue than PC and consoles combined. Opinions may vary, but personally I think that being able to run Windows on your Mac is far, far down on the list on reasons to purchase a Mac. It was a very handy tool to have especially 15 years ago when the Mac didn't have as much commercial support, but in 2021 I don't think a lot of potential Mac customers really care about Windows compatibility.
celsoazevedo 5y ago
I don't like the notch, but the 120Hz is nice to have (we also scroll and have transitions on a computer). I don't use HDMI anymore, but it doesn't hurt to have it. SD Cards? That's what my camera uses, so it will be used. Touch bar? I have no use for it (in fact I use it with the old style layout). PR? Ignore it. My main "issue" with the new laptops is the price and the notch (I don't mind the lack of face ID). Different people have different needs. This laptop probably isn't for you.

kcb 5y ago

From the reviews I've seen so far, seems like Apples "Relative Perfomance Points" benchmarks were as misleading as expected for the GPU. The M1 Max is more like a 3060 in performance not a 3080.

AnEro 5y ago
I'm going to be honest, I didn't have the expectations that any custom hardware would perform like a companies benchmarks claim they do. Since they would be cherry picked to hell and back, especially apple. The fact it has a geekbench score that makes my gen2 threadripper look bad and can still have 3060 performance in a laptop is still very impressive to me.
- atonse 5y ago
  As much as I give Apple crap for some of their marketing, their CPU and battery claims usually tend to be quite spot on and reproducible by reviewers. That's what I've noticed over the years.
neogodless 5y ago
If you look at Anandtech[0], you can get a clearer picture. In synthetic, isolated benchmarks, the GPU could have similar hardware performance to an RTX 3080 mobile. However... once you throw in the lack of games compiled for ARM and designed to run on Metal, most of that potential is wasted. Having never owned an Apple product, these sound like excellent machines, but I still want to be able to play the games on my expensive, powerful hardware. So I'd like to see what they can do if they are targeted. The M1 from last year didn't seem to change anything. It'll be interesting to see if this does. Will increasing market share and consumer demand be enough to push some more development of games for these machines? At least in theory the hardware is there now for reasonable gaming performance. [0] https://www.anandtech.com/show/17024/apple-m1-max-performance-review/6 https://www.anandtech.com/show/17024/apple-m1-max-performanc...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

bla3 5y ago

The review doesn't even mention continued absence of USB-A. Am I weird that I still need USB-A adapters all the time? Most of the new MBP is about solving problems people actually have instead of the ones Apple wishes they had.

neogodless 5y ago
Anecdotally, I barely use USB of any kind on my laptop (a gaming PC). Bluetooth mouse, headphones, built-in card reader. On my desktop... I have 4-6 USB-A devices plugged in at any given moment. If I was buying a Macbook Pro for work, it would absolutely be getting a Thunderbolt 4 compatible dock, full of all the port goodness I needed.
williamstein 5y ago
From TFA: “Sure, you’ll still need adapters to connect older USB Type-A devices…”
jolux 5y ago
If you have to connect to a lot of third-party stuff that uses USB-A then I would say it’s not weird. I migrated all my personal devices and cables to USB-C though and it’s much better overall.
- 1-6 5y ago
  I’m not very happy with USB-C because it’s harder to plug in without looking. With USB-A, you can feel the port. With lightning, the tip of the connector is rounded so it’s easier as well.
  - orchee 5y ago
    After reading that USB-A is easier to plug in than USB-C for anyone I've just realized that we - as a species - will never agree 100% on anything.
  - greedo 5y ago
    Except that 50% of the time, you have the USB-A connector upside down.

varispeed 5y ago

It's a shame that manufacturers nor the reviewers no longer publish where tested equipment has been made. Why hiding such a fact? These days you really have to dig deep to find this seemingly basic information. Often you can only learn when you actually purchase the product and look at labelling. What would be the reason for that?

josephpmay 5y ago
All of Apple’s hardware devices sold in the US are manufactured in China, with the exception (I think?) of the Mac Pro. Their chips are fabbed in Taiwan. This has been the case the decades and is pretty much common knowledge. Nobody is hiding anything.
- varispeed 5y ago
  I asked a few of my friends where they think Apple products are made and all of them but one said they make it in California or Silicon Valley. It's not a common knowledge.
  - NhanH 5y ago
    It said right there on the box: made in China, assembled in California, and has been that way for 10 year-ish If it is not common knowledge in your circle of friends, it is not Apple’s fault
    - pests 5y ago
      Maybe it's not common knowledge for you either? I don't own any iDevices but doesn't it say "Designed in California, Assembled in China"?
      - NhanH 5y ago
        The link to China is common knowledge. I made no claim on the particular wording of the statement :-)

herodotus 5y ago

My impression is that the design team felt somewhat liberated from Jony Ive's design aesthetic, hence the elimination of the Touch Bar, the return of MagSafe, the SD slot, and (most jarringly to me) the curved under-body. Nevertheless, I welcome the changes (except for the curve).

ActionHank 5y ago
It's wild that he had that much control over their product designs. I have to believe there were people at Apple who would have opposed the changes. Were they overruled or too scared to speak up?
- InitialLastName 5y ago
  In product design within a large (or even medium) organization it takes strong institutional restraint to avoid generating camels (horses designed by committee). The way that Apple appears to have consistently avoided that pitfall (for whatever other pitfalls they did fall into) is to heavily empower a single person to make the fundamental design decisions and to be the source of red light/green light for the rest of the designs. Both Jobs and Ives filled that role with varying degrees of success; it will be interesting to see what institutional structure arises with Ives mostly out of the picture. Remember, Apple is sustaining the one of the highest-cap businesses on Earth, with ~200k employees, on approximately 10 hardware products. That takes an immense amount of focus.
toyg 5y ago
But why do they then have to go and f##k things up with the damn notch...?
- drclau 5y ago
  You get more screen estate with the notch, than without it, because they would have taken the entire horizontal space and make it a piano black bar. And because Apple controls the software too, I expect the integration will be good. I am more concerned about the risk of cracking the screen, because it is so close to the edge now. Does anyone know how important the width of the edge is for the safety of the screen?

nkotov 5y ago

I can't be the only one who thinks this new design is ugly. Just something about it feels off.

midoreigh 5y ago
I feel the same. Although I appreciate all the cooling performance and ports, I kind of feel bad about the new design.
hugocbp 5y ago
You are not the only one. I bought one, really excited to replace my 2014 Macbook, but the design won't be what I like the most, I'm sure. For me, it somehow already feels dated. The black background on the keyboard and the "curved but just slightly" bottom are not to my taste. I wish they would have gone full square like some of the leaks for the M2 Macbook Air show. In the end, though, I'm still happy they didn't go with form over function for this one. I've been holding on my old 2014 one just because from 2016 onwards Apple decided to cripple Macbook function for style. I will take an ugly, powerful, useful Macbook anyday over a beautiful one full of limitations.
wodenokoto 5y ago
It is definitely an attempt to fill out the corners of the old design in order to make room for all the new stuff. It looks way thicker then the previous model. I do like the keyboard and the rounded screen, but the overall shape is not particularly elegant.

YPPH 5y ago

I really want to purchase this, but I'm still waiting for clarity on the Windows on ARM licensing situation. It's not going to be possible for me to use this at work in the Insiders build licensing grey area. It's regrettable that the only thing hindering Windows on Apple silicon is a silly business decision by Microsoft.

vbezhenar 5y ago
I guess that Parallels wouldn't spend engineering resources without some agreements from Microsoft. I, personally, need properly virtualized x86 Windows. Might be slow, whatever, even Windows XP is enough for me. Without x86 Windows I would need to rent a VM and that's a nuisance. Is it possible to just directly run qemu in some kind of emulation mode? I know that docker runs x86 containers, so there should be some way. Emulating x86 is one thing that stops me from ordering Macbook.
- cassianoleal 5y ago
  Both Docker Desktop and Podman Machine run emulated x86 machines via QEMU. I never tried to run Windows on it but I imagine it's doable. I have no idea about performance though.
- ghaff 5y ago
  If Windows on x86 were important to me, there's no way I would be using some unsupported emulation. Even if I wanted Apple Silicon for some other reason, I'd still just run a Windows x86 laptop (or server) for applications where it's needed.

cassianoleal 5y ago

> the MagSafe connection is less likely to cause accidental falls and you won't have to use a precious USB-C port just to stay powered up. This is not quite true IMO. The prior line of MacBook Pros (not the M1 as I see that as a glorified Air) had 4 USB-c ports vs 3 on the newer ones. I could also use one of the 4 (with a dongle) for both charging and pluggin in peripherals, so it's in essence one less USB-C port however I look at it.

matwood 5y ago
Agreed. I think adding back some legacy ports is a cover for not being able to add a 4th tb4 port to the M1. I would have preferred to stick with 4 tb4 ports and none of the legacy ports.
- cassianoleal 5y ago
  I actually find more value in the current year's port setup but everybody's needs are different so some will gain, some will lose. I just found the statement in the article to be untrue. I've never used 4 USB-C/TB ports at the same time, even when charging. I have used the same port for charging and HDMI via a dongle though. I also like the SD card slot, even though I mostly use micro-SDs. Depending on how much an SD protrudes on the side, keeping an adapter in permanently might solve for that though.
  - Aaargh20318 5y ago
    I used all 4 ports and would have liked more. The ports were used for power, external monitor, ethernet, and an USB hub (audio interface, backup drive). I could have used at least 2 additional ports to connect and iPhone and Android phone (for development).

dang 5y ago

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