4 ms·

Any public examples?

by izietto 5y ago

iamflimflam1 5y ago
First issue I clicked on... https://github.com/OpenMW/openmw/pull/3176 https://github.com/OpenMW/openmw/pull/3176
- Deukhoofd 5y ago
  They did apologise for that to be fair. https://github.com/OpenMW/openmw/pull/3176#discussion_r728586532 https://github.com/OpenMW/openmw/pull/3176#discussion_r72858...
- izietto 5y ago
  I see a discussion but it's not too harsh to me. Do you come from a Western country? People coming from Western countries tend to be more demanding about discussion friendliness sometimes for my experience
  - circularfoyers 5y ago
    Contrary to both your comment and the parent's, one of the project's developers (not sure they are the main developer, but one of them) admitted in the referenced pull request that they were too harsh in their response to the contribution: > Now I am rereading my first comment an see that it is too rude. I am sorry for that. I was in a bad mood when wrote this.
    - izietto 5y ago
      Yep and he apologized as you noticed, so I can't see anything too frightening to me.
  - silicon2401 5y ago
    What countries would be less friendly in your experience?
    - izietto 5y ago
      Let me clarify that I'm not talking about countries and people, I'm talking about language. For example, English language puts "please" every time you are telling someone to do something, in my language (Italian here), you don't do that. If you are not a good English speaker (like me), you suddenly become someone who gives commands to other people in a rude way.
      - a1369209993 5y ago
        > English language puts "please" every time you are telling someone to do something As a native English speaker: no it doesn't. Whoever told you that was gaslighting you, a corporate-politically-correct shitheel, or both. (Or being sarcastic, or cargo-culting something they picked from one of the previous categories, or some other breakdown of communication.)
      - silicon2401 5y ago
        > People coming from Western countries tend to be more demanding about discussion friendliness sometimes > People I'm a bit confused, are you talking about people and countries or not? In your original comment you explicitly said "people" and "countries"
        bee_rider 5y ago
        They are talking about the way people from these countries typically phrase things as a result of their native language, rather than trying to characterize the actual personalities of the people from these countries. We just add more friendly sounding little filler phrases in our speech and often phrase instructions/commands as requests in English. This doesn't make us fundamentally nicer or more reasonable, it is just a social convention.
        izietto 5y ago
        Thank you for explaining that at my place :) I wasn't even referring to "Western" countries, I mean I come from Italy, which actually is a Western country, and when I read native English speakers I notice many differences that I'll never be able to reproduce
  - HolidayguyNOR 5y ago
    I agree. There are also huge individual differences. I have a military background and we generally don't "gift wrap" our feedback. "This bad because X" is constructive, helpful and to the point, and it doesn't mean that the person receiving the feedback is incompetent. Some people seem to take it that way. Accepting failure is integral to learning and growth, but a key part of that is identifying the weak points and learning from them. Edit: s/gift wrap/sugar coat
- bsagdiyev 5y ago
  I… don’t see anything wrong with that discussion?
  - tauin 5y ago
    not to mention petrmikheev isnt even the main developer, let alone the lead of openmw, psi29a is.
- Narann 5y ago
  Direct for sure, but not rude. Someone want a modification to be merged and push a lot of template code giving a 3 line PR explanation. This kind of situation comes often in OSS, specially in C++ project and I wouldn't be surprised if OMW had a lot of PR like this. With this kind of PR, the maintainer have to go into each line and try to understand what the point because the original author didn't explain that much + it's C++ template and not everyone like that. This is not a excuse to be arsh or anything, another option would have been to put a tag "need clarification" and let the PR in a hole and force the author to motivates its modifications.
  - hoseja 5y ago
    Not just a simple template, a template template, which is certainly quite obscure.
- mmastrac 5y ago
  I thought the parent comment up the thread was referring to the multiplayer fork rather than the main codebase but I could be wrong
  - krageon 5y ago
    I was referring to the multiplayer fork, yes
krageon 5y ago
No, I got yelled at (for asking which issues were not picked up yet and then saying I'd pick one up) in private. I'm definitely not the only one.
- phraseologist 5y ago
  This is incorrect. You decided you were going to do a unilateral implementation of a feature without discussing it at all. It was an anti-collaboration mindset from you.
  - imtringued 5y ago
    You're rejecting this person without giving them a chance. "You're wrong" "You did something bad" "You have the wrong mindset". There is no room to be correct. There is no room for a bilateral implementation of a feature. There is no room for a collaboration mindset.
    - phraseologist 5y ago
      I only rejected his out-of-the-blue implementation of something that already had very different plans around it. There is room for whoever doesn't disregard what the readme says: "For code contributions, it's best to start out with modestly sized fixes and features and work your way up. There are so many different possible implementations of more major features – many of which would cause undesirable code or vision conflicts with OpenMW – that those should be talked over in advance with the existing developers before effort is spent on them."
  - krageon 5y ago
    You were so rude to me and so unwilling to actually discuss things like an adult I eventually resorted to blocking you on Discord. I talk to an incredible amount of people on there and you are one of maybe two people I've ever had to block. I recognise that there was an avenue where I could have placated you, this is after all possible with every human being. That said, what you accused me of and what you apparently continue to accuse me of is just not reasonable and I'm afraid we will never see eye to eye on this. Edit: To actually respond to what you are saying: I came into your server and asked if someone had already picked up an issue. When it was clear this was not the case, I said I would give it a shot. Because you were the way you were to me, I never felt like I should contribute my patches upstream (which I did end up writing). That is a shame and a loss and all you had to do to avoid it was approach me with a positive and tolerant mindset, like I tried to do with you.

Any public examples?

iamflimflam1 5y ago

First issue I clicked on... https://github.com/OpenMW/openmw/pull/3176 https://github.com/OpenMW/openmw/pull/3176

Deukhoofd 5y ago
They did apologise for that to be fair. https://github.com/OpenMW/openmw/pull/3176#discussion_r728586532 https://github.com/OpenMW/openmw/pull/3176#discussion_r72858...
izietto 5y ago
I see a discussion but it's not too harsh to me. Do you come from a Western country? People coming from Western countries tend to be more demanding about discussion friendliness sometimes for my experience
- circularfoyers 5y ago
  Contrary to both your comment and the parent's, one of the project's developers (not sure they are the main developer, but one of them) admitted in the referenced pull request that they were too harsh in their response to the contribution: > Now I am rereading my first comment an see that it is too rude. I am sorry for that. I was in a bad mood when wrote this.
  - izietto 5y ago
    Yep and he apologized as you noticed, so I can't see anything too frightening to me.
- silicon2401 5y ago
  What countries would be less friendly in your experience?
  - izietto 5y ago
    Let me clarify that I'm not talking about countries and people, I'm talking about language. For example, English language puts "please" every time you are telling someone to do something, in my language (Italian here), you don't do that. If you are not a good English speaker (like me), you suddenly become someone who gives commands to other people in a rude way.
    - a1369209993 5y ago
      > English language puts "please" every time you are telling someone to do something As a native English speaker: no it doesn't. Whoever told you that was gaslighting you, a corporate-politically-correct shitheel, or both. (Or being sarcastic, or cargo-culting something they picked from one of the previous categories, or some other breakdown of communication.)
    - silicon2401 5y ago
      > People coming from Western countries tend to be more demanding about discussion friendliness sometimes > People I'm a bit confused, are you talking about people and countries or not? In your original comment you explicitly said "people" and "countries"
      - bee_rider 5y ago
        They are talking about the way people from these countries typically phrase things as a result of their native language, rather than trying to characterize the actual personalities of the people from these countries. We just add more friendly sounding little filler phrases in our speech and often phrase instructions/commands as requests in English. This doesn't make us fundamentally nicer or more reasonable, it is just a social convention.
        izietto 5y ago
        Thank you for explaining that at my place :) I wasn't even referring to "Western" countries, I mean I come from Italy, which actually is a Western country, and when I read native English speakers I notice many differences that I'll never be able to reproduce
- HolidayguyNOR 5y ago
  I agree. There are also huge individual differences. I have a military background and we generally don't "gift wrap" our feedback. "This bad because X" is constructive, helpful and to the point, and it doesn't mean that the person receiving the feedback is incompetent. Some people seem to take it that way. Accepting failure is integral to learning and growth, but a key part of that is identifying the weak points and learning from them. Edit: s/gift wrap/sugar coat
bsagdiyev 5y ago
I… don’t see anything wrong with that discussion?
- tauin 5y ago
  not to mention petrmikheev isnt even the main developer, let alone the lead of openmw, psi29a is.
Narann 5y ago
Direct for sure, but not rude. Someone want a modification to be merged and push a lot of template code giving a 3 line PR explanation. This kind of situation comes often in OSS, specially in C++ project and I wouldn't be surprised if OMW had a lot of PR like this. With this kind of PR, the maintainer have to go into each line and try to understand what the point because the original author didn't explain that much + it's C++ template and not everyone like that. This is not a excuse to be arsh or anything, another option would have been to put a tag "need clarification" and let the PR in a hole and force the author to motivates its modifications.
- hoseja 5y ago
  Not just a simple template, a template template, which is certainly quite obscure.
mmastrac 5y ago
I thought the parent comment up the thread was referring to the multiplayer fork rather than the main codebase but I could be wrong
- krageon 5y ago
  I was referring to the multiplayer fork, yes

krageon 5y ago

No, I got yelled at (for asking which issues were not picked up yet and then saying I'd pick one up) in private. I'm definitely not the only one.

phraseologist 5y ago
This is incorrect. You decided you were going to do a unilateral implementation of a feature without discussing it at all. It was an anti-collaboration mindset from you.
- imtringued 5y ago
  You're rejecting this person without giving them a chance. "You're wrong" "You did something bad" "You have the wrong mindset". There is no room to be correct. There is no room for a bilateral implementation of a feature. There is no room for a collaboration mindset.
  - phraseologist 5y ago
    I only rejected his out-of-the-blue implementation of something that already had very different plans around it. There is room for whoever doesn't disregard what the readme says: "For code contributions, it's best to start out with modestly sized fixes and features and work your way up. There are so many different possible implementations of more major features – many of which would cause undesirable code or vision conflicts with OpenMW – that those should be talked over in advance with the existing developers before effort is spent on them."
- krageon 5y ago
  You were so rude to me and so unwilling to actually discuss things like an adult I eventually resorted to blocking you on Discord. I talk to an incredible amount of people on there and you are one of maybe two people I've ever had to block. I recognise that there was an avenue where I could have placated you, this is after all possible with every human being. That said, what you accused me of and what you apparently continue to accuse me of is just not reasonable and I'm afraid we will never see eye to eye on this. Edit: To actually respond to what you are saying: I came into your server and asked if someone had already picked up an issue. When it was clear this was not the case, I said I would give it a shot. Because you were the way you were to me, I never felt like I should contribute my patches upstream (which I did end up writing). That is a shame and a loss and all you had to do to avoid it was approach me with a positive and tolerant mindset, like I tried to do with you.