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Bitcoin Addiction Hospital
- adminscoffee 5y agodo you have money issues? yeah, unchecked consumerism is an addiction as well. how many people take on more work than they should but don't even get to enjoy the things they are working for? that's extremely unhealthy
- headmelted 5y agoI mean, OK? What’s that got to do with a clinic for gambling addiction?
- DonHopkins 5y agoRationalization and excuse making and attempting to make false equivalencies and whataboutisms to divert the argument away from Bitcoin's problems is another sign of shilling and gambling addiction.
- mateuszf 5y agoThey're not healing bitcoin addiction but trading addiction. You can just buy bitcoin and hold it as store of value / investment. That's a significant difference. And a misleading title IMO.
- enlyth 5y agoThat is literally in the first sentence on the website: "Castle Craig Hospital provides treatment for people addicted to trading, spread betting and the trading of cryptocurrencies..."
- mateuszf 5y agoI'm talking about HN title. The real problem here is trading addiction, not bitcoin itself.
- DonHopkins 5y agoEasy there big fellow. Bitcoin itself is certainly and undenyably a huge problem in and of itself, as you well know. Its horrible environmental impact is a huge problem, as are its effects on the mental health of the people who go online and shill it and rationalize it while ignoring and denying and marginalizing its environmental impact.
- mlang23 5y agoThis finger pointing style of saving the planet feels so extremely juvenile, its no longer funny. Yes, bitcoin uses a lot of energy. But so does artificial snow. Or gaming for that matter. What would we see if we add up all gamers on the planet? All the VR and AR nonsense that is being developed and sold? We have chips, we have electricity. You will not regulate what people are going with these chips and that electricity. And wanting to do so makes you look pretty foolish.
- awrence 5y agoIt also demonstrates a basic lack of understanding of how the energy markets work and how as just about the only intermittent buyer of last resort, proof of work is about to positively impact the energy infrastructure in a pretty substantial way and will probably converge on tapping into exclusively stranded / wasted energy (about 30% of energy production vs less than 0.1% of global production used by pow today). If anyone is genuinely interesting in educating themselves on the topic I'd recommend the two fairly recent episodes of What Bitcoin Did with guest Harry Sudock.
- headmelted 5y agoYou mis-spelled speculative tokens.
- DonHopkins 5y agoThey're also treating Bitcoin Shilling and Hyping and Rationalization and Excuse Making Addiction.
- xiphias2 5y agoI agree, and I’m a long time HODLer, but most men friends of mine can’t handle the emotional roller coaster of just holding (I’m a guy as well). What’s interesting is that my female friends are perfectly capable of doing it…..they invested less money, but their patience easily makes up for investing less money originally.
- Chris2048 5y agoHow do you know it's higher patience rather than the lower stakes (wrt initial investment)? Also, I'm not sure I agree with the "HODL" philosophy. btc has fallen a lot too, and the assumption "it'll all work out in the end (long term)" is exactly what can't ever be demonstrated (tomorrow never comes) until it all crashes, after which it's too late.
- xiphias2 5y agoI’m talking to my friends. A male friend of mine started cocaine really hard when the BTC price crashed, another quarreling with his wife so much that their marriage failed. They are getting really depressed generally, as their self worth as the provider of their family is linked to their wealth. About the HODL philosophy: I don’t understand any other. I bought for long term (10+ years) as an investment with high risk and high possible reward at $150/BTC. The 10 years haven’t passed yet (only 8), so we can come back to this thread to see if HODL works out or not.
- pjc50 5y agoGambling addiction does seem to be a modern problem; not just unregulated forex and options trading, and not just in bitcoin, but also gatcha games and good old fashioned sports betting. Perhaps this is why Netflix Korean lethal gambling TV series Squid Game is so resonant in the West.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- Reason077 5y agoIt's always been a problem. Religions and governments have historically banned or heavily regulated gambling, going back at least as far as Ancient Rome, Ancient China, and Ancient Egypt. The modern problem, perhaps, is that now we have new forms of gambling (crypto! day trading! spread betting apps!) which are perhaps not as obvious, are not as visible in society, and fall outside of existing regulations?
- vanderZwan 5y agoThe growing wealth inequality probably also produces more desperate people willing to risk it
- usrusr 5y agoIt's not just desperation, wealth disparity has also contributed to the erosion of any value that used to be given to where the money comes from. The spectrum from speculation to gambling used be be linked to a certain kind of stigma (more so for straight up honest gambling, but also for speculation), these days it's more like "hard-earned? you got no-one to blame but yourself!" And how could it not erode? It's difficult to take pride in your hard-earned cash when it's all coming from a stack of advertising media fueled by advertising media, as if all the way down.
- Consultant32452 5y agoDo you believe there’s more wealth inequality in America today compared to medieval Europe or ancient Egypt?
- greenail 5y agoIt strikes me that there is a link between mainstream popularity of crypto and the massive liquidity and artificially low interest rates. The smart players are using the transparency to do high frequency arbitrage. This is one of the rare instances where I think regulation is helpful.
- LightG 5y agoGood. Makes sense. Much of the speculative narrative around bitcoin has been pure gambling and it resembles a cultish sickness.
- shapefrog 5y agoCastle Craig Hospital provides treatment for people addicted to trading, spread betting and the trading of cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin, Ethereum, Ripple & Litecoin. We treat these as forms of gambling addiction. Quite right too.
- WJW 5y agoSeems reasonable. A lot of people involved in cryptocurrency seem to be trading way more often than is advisable when looking at the spreads (and thus exchange rake) involved. The exchange platforms certainly don't discourage extremely risky trading either, both by their interface design and by the level of leverage they offer. Finally, by providing it under the guise of "investing", which has a much better public image than "gambling", they provide it with a veneer of respectability. An ideal breeding ground for addicted behavior.
- anonymoushn 5y agoExchange fees are different from spreads (and, in US venues, much larger than spreads) Do people really place 100% taker orders?
- qeternity 5y agoYes, most people aren’t even aware of maker/taker structures or bid/offer spreads. Most people don’t really understand how markets work, especially in crypto which has self selected a lot of people who happily jump with both feet into something they don’t understand.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- headmelted 5y agoWhen people try to convert me to Bitcoinology now I just smile and in my head I replace [shill token of the day] with “the ponies” as it saves me debating with them and we both get to leave with a smile on our face. “[The ponies] keep making stellar returns year after year. It’s still early to make money on [the ponies]. [The ponies] are the future of wealth.” etc. “[The ponies] are going to the moon” is my personal favourite, because what a nice thought that is. Anyway, next time someone asks about cryptocurrency just tell them you already know it’s all about spacefaring horses and wish them well while you walk safely away.
- tromp 5y agoTheir cryptocurrency FAQ is comical at times: > How do cryptocurrencies work? All transactions are done on the internet. Each unit of cryptocurrency is made up of a unique computer codes that can be bought and sold. > Who runs cryptocurrencies? Instead of a central (or national) bank there are thousands of IT experts, known as ‘miners’, whose job is to verify transactions and release more crypto-coins into the market. The Bitcoin miners use a system called blockchain. They are sustained by their users, who believe the value of their digital currencies will increase (or at least remain the same).
- artfulhippo 5y agoSeems like a good ELI5 (or 75) to me.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- elliekelly 5y ago“IT experts” is a pretty generous description.
- qwerty456127 5y agoI once tried some binary options just for fun. Crypto were the worst tickers to bet on. At the same time crypto seems among the best assets for the classic "buy on lows, hold forever" strategy. Why does anybody bother betting/scalping on crypto?
- xiphias2 5y agoI did it as well, but it was really a bad decision…..they are calling me from UK number with an Indian accent with ,,great investment possibilities’’ all the time and I can’t unsubscribe from their list.
- qwerty456127 5y agoI just change my phone number every couple of years and never answer unexpected calls. I've also done some research before choosing the platform and chose what was supposed to be the best. They never called me, they just email me regularly begging me to withdraw the funds I have left (but I just hate KYC passionately and don't want to bother uploading the documents they require). I wish there were a simple buttons to donate everything to charities.
- qwerty456127 5y agoBy the way, didn't the UK come up with their analogue to the GDPR after leaving the EU?
- detaro 5y agoI don't think they have touched it yet, so it should fall under their laws that they automatically took over into UK law (except the EU-level institutions of course)
- shimonabi 5y agoThis needs to be in every hospital. I know so many potential patients. Just last week a coworker told me he considers people who don't believe in the future of crypto dumb. It's almost unimaginable to him that a smart person would refuse to buy into crypto. It's the same type of people that would be hawking pyramid schemes two decades ago.
- pjc50 5y agoI do worry that the Great Filter for current Western society will be "too much of the country gets involved in pyramid-ish schemes" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_Civil_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_Civil_War (the 2008 mortgage crisis almost reached that level and has actually done long term damage to the political system!)
- palijer 5y agoYeah, the whole thing just has me thinking of the South Sea Bubble.
- Chris2048 5y agocrypto-currencies in general, or blockchain/PoW implementations specifically?
- shimonabi 5y agoThat week he was hawking the Helium blockchain. Supposedly his nephew buys some expensive LoRa nodes so he will reap future rewards when more people will have such hardware. Now that's a pyramid scheme if I ever heard of one.
- mihaic 5y agoI feel more strongly than ever that trading should be strictly regulated and not permitted to the general population. It's framed as an equalizer, but it ends up moving more money from the middle to the upper class. I don't think anybody wants to return to haggling for piece of fruit they buy from the supermarket, yet somehow many of my friends are regular office worker that feel they have an edge over the highest paying industry in the world.
- iSnow 5y agoVery true. People used to see working as a normal part of life, and used to invest part of their salary in solid funds to retire on those investments later. Those in well-paying jobs expected to retire on a bigger amount than those in less well paid jobs. Nowadays, people seem to view the idea of working as an insult and want to retire in their 30's on some insane gambling profits, both in the /r/wsb community, in the FI/RE community and the bitcoinists. I do wonder what caused this attitude change over the last 10y or so.
- BeFlatXIII 5y agoPeople have lost the optimism that working hard will get you ahead. The FI/RE community still has a modicum of that ethos, but they view hard work as a necessary nuisance that should be finished ASAP.
- mihaic 5y agoAgree, this shift in attitude might be a response to how poorly paid regular jobs are and how unfair the system is -- in practice and in perception. It's hard to keep focused when all you see on social media is superficiality being rewarded. For the system to be rigged in favor of the ultra-rich, you'll need a army of enforcers, the influencers, the lawyers, even the developers that are "just doing tech".
- throwdecro 5y agoIt's possible that gambling for profits or having a soul-crushing workaday job are both undesirable ways to live.
- padolsey 5y agoIt's been interesting to see bitcoin and blockchain migrate from tech infrastructure to the mainstream. I had a chat to an electrician recently who lost an apprentice because they wanted to go 'all in' on trading crypto. Electricians and other tradespeople are in short supply here in the UK and he just couldn't understand why someone would forgo a solid career for something so flakey. He felt he'd lost this apprentice to a cult. Just one anecdote but it's interesting how similar the furor of crypto is to that of religious dogma, with many people claiming prophetic foresight, and going all in on the dogma both to self-rationalize their risk-taking and for FOMO. There is, as well, a lot of economical turbulence in peoples' lives at the moment, meaning they're more likely to turn to gambling and risk-taking.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- chemmail 5y agoI think this shows how bad society is nowdays. Instead of looking at jobs as a career, it now feels like being a slave to the job. I am lucky enough to do what I love, and have a cache of coins so i don't really need to work anymore. But what would I do all day?
- samhw 5y ago> He felt he'd lost this apprentice to a cult. I think he was right. My criterion for whether someone's in a cult is that eerie feeling talking to them, where they get angry at any challenge, they can never quite seem to explain why they're as invested (metaphorically and literally) as they are, and so forth. It's that sense that they themselves don't know why they do it, and there's a lot of emotional pathology that goes into shutting off from the outside world and protecting their obsession from reality. That absolutely typifies Bitcoin/crypto obsessives I've met.
- 0x000000001 5y agoMy best friend was in a famous cult half his life. That's nothing like a cult. He had unlimited money ($25k a month was nothing) and freedom to do anything he wanted for 15 years. He was never harmed. The organization collapsed as the elders passed away partially due to the rule of no proselytizing so no new members. edit: they had about $50M split between 6 people near the end. I don't really know why more people don't do this: register a religious organization, require all members to assign all assets and money to the organization, work together for the rest of your life building your wealth tax free and watch how quick your wealth amplifies as you acquire properties and make investments.
- iSnow 5y agoDoes anyone else see those excessive "crypto dudes" around in their social circle? They seem to eat, breath and excrete Bitcoins day in, day out. I can't understand why otherwise intelligent people are sucked into some cult-like gambling, wasting their lives away and talking about the upcoming disruption of the financial system in much the same way as QAnon idiot talk about the "Great awakening". During my lifetime, some cultish obsessions made the round, but seems to me that "always on" social media has poured a lot of gas on the fire.
- sseagull 5y agoI do. Some anyway. I have seen some very smart acquaintances start talking about how bitcoin will replace the dollar or become the reserve currency of the world in just a few years. It really does feel like a cult or something. It’s so far removed from reality I don’t know where to even begin.
- brianwawok 5y ago* that's nice * Goes back to holding index funds for 30 years. Time will tell who was smart and who is crazy I suppose.
- GVIrish 5y agoWhen you think about it, the behavior isn't all that different from the way MLM converts act. MLM true believers would tell you it's the future of commerce or something and that it'll provide them financial independence or early retirement. Bitcoin and Ethereum are actually making people money so it's different than the average MLM experience, but that makes the fervor all the more intense. Then there's all the shitcoins out there that people have lost money on.
- OhSoHumble 5y agoI know a couple of dudes who are really into NFT. It really does come across as a cult-like culture with odd terminology and a half-baked understanding of the technology behind it.
- nathias 5y agoThere is a small percent of people susceptible to gambling and instead of helping them you 'solve' this problem by making the profits go to the government. Every engineer should feel embarassed by supporting this.
- betwixthewires 5y agoOne thing to keep in mind is that there's a fundamental difference between gambling and speculating on assets, cryptocurrency or otherwise. With gambling, the payout odds and real odds of a game are known, and you have to pay per play, which means a guaranteed loss rate. With speculation, no money is actually lost in the process, only when you've decided to end it, and "turns" do not have defined terms. This might sound like a trivial difference but it is not. You actually can make money speculating. Many of the behavioral patterns though are the same. People do get addicted to speculating and trading, and mostly with negative consequences, particularly if they do not learn as they go and rely on pseudo superstitious beliefs and truisms, which most traders do.
- hirvi74 5y agoI find it odd how so many of the comments here are attacking Bitcoin, other cryptocurrencies, day-trading, and other forms of gambling/speculation/investing. It reminds me of a quote from some comedian I heard many moons backs that went something like: > It's funny when you quit drinking -- people always ask you, "Why did you quit drinking?" or "How come you do not drink anymore?" But why does no one ever ask why you drank in the first place? That quote seems to lineup well with various discussions in this thread. What causing more and more people to go down this road? Personally, I think this is a subtle, yet massive, cry for help. It seems like this is the only way out for so many people(or so they think), and that is what breeds the cult-like mentality. I wouldn't care about investing as much as I currently do, if my future did not literally rely on it. I do not make enough money that I can throw my money into a savings account, and it will be enough to retire on. I only have one choice if I want to retire one day, and that is to invest. I am mainly an index fund investor, and I still fear that even that is not enough. When you are, more or less, forced to live in a rat-race, your only options are to traverse the maze and hope the cheese is still there if/when you make it to the end. And if that is case, I don't blame the other rats for trying to chew and naw their way attempting to escape/shortcut the maze. Do I invest in cryptocurrencies? Yes. Do I believe in any of them have true utility or provide solutions for real problems? No. I invest in them because I find it a fun little game. I am not going to get rich on them or anything, but it gives me something to do when Fantasy Hockey / NHL is in its offseason. I can see why people get high on the 'hopium' though -- there isn't much to be hopeful for anymore.