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I have this theory that one of the contributing factors to the "I don't want to go to the office" trend in the US (which I'm part of), is that cities are also n

by baby 5y ago

I have this theory that one of the contributing factors to the "I don't want to go to the office" trend in the US (which I'm part of), is that cities are also not made for commuting. Coming from Europe, where public transport is really practical, and cities are built for density, your commute is often much less cumbersome AND you can enjoy some social life after work since you're in the city. Here (the bay) it was just the worst. Companies can't build in cities so they build large offices in suburbs. There's a lack of housing so no matter where you live you'll end up paying like crazy. And there's pretty much no practical public transport so you're just going to live through hell. I spent some time in LA and I can't even imagine how people deal with that there. I'm never going to commute ever again after that experience, unless I'm back to Europe.

felipellrocha 5y ago
Yeah, it’s an infrastructure problem. I love my commute because it allows me to disconnect from work after I’m done with it. I don’t think my American colleagues understand that, even though i get a lot of sympathy from my European colleagues. I had to, though, be intentional about setting up my commute so i had time to read a book to and fro, and I’m sure not everyone is willing to think about it in those terms. I foresee a movement in a few years of “commute forward” people trying to improve on their work-life balance, once they realize how much of life they’re going to be missing once they start commingling work and home life together.
- roguas 5y ago
  I hate the commute, I love the cache clearing it provided. It can be easily replaced by a hike in the afternoon or a book session in the garden.
- DoingIsLearning 5y ago
  > I foresee a movement in a few years of “commute forward” people trying to improve on their work-life balance, once they realize how much of life they’re going to be missing once they start commingling work and home life together. Could we just agree that people are different and that some of us do not feel the way you do? When I'm working I put on work clothes, I sit at my work desk and I take my work coffee cup. When I am done, I roll down my roll-top desk, and go pick up the kids on foot. Arguably I appreciate that work culture in North-America and Asia may not be conducive of this. But ultimately we can all have the separation we need. For me I built it around routines and work/leisure separation. For you it is your commute. Could we not let us both have what we want?
Steltek 5y ago
Boston is often compared to a European city. I also think I fit your observation pretty well, as I can't wait to be back in our downtown office. I'm looking forward to a 25 minute bike commute and being in a lively area packed with things to do. The routine gives me a little bit of everything (exercise, people, fresh air, and amenities) and it's conveniently built right into the work day.
- mgkimsal 5y ago
  I see the 'European' connection moreso than some other cities here in the US. I've visited Boston twice - once just a few weeks ago - and I could definitely see some attraction of living/working there. It seemed way too expensive to actually live in for my budget, but I may have just gotten too accustomed to a LCOL area. I enjoyed the breadth and depth of the city, and have some family living there at the moment, so I expect I'll get to enjoy a bit more of it next year.
sbrother 5y ago
This hits home. I've been working remotely ever since we moved away from LA, largely because the traffic situation there was just unbearable. I don't even know how people with kids do it, since it takes hours to drive a few miles on each side of the work day, how do you drop off/pick up kids from daycare? I realize it's incredibly privileged position to be in but I actually don't know how we'd fit office-based work into our lives again with two kids under 5 -- I guess you have to pay for a nanny and accept that you get to see your kids on the weekends.
- sjg007 5y ago
  In LA or California really you can put your kids in schools by your office.
refurb 5y ago
Obviously it's a personal preference, but most people I know who have easy commutes (<20 min, walk, bike or public transit) still don't want to go into the office. Neither do I. It might be nice for a change of pace of a specific purpose (i.e. planning meeting that is just easier in-person). If I want to go downtown and socialize with coworkers, I can do that after work (and have while WFH).
Ozzie_osman 5y ago
> cities are also not made for commuting. Coming from Europe... I moved from the Middle East to the US. Cairo was a shit city for commuting. But that didn't stop socializing, because the other big difference between the US and many other countries is how individualistic and work-based society is. Back home, I had relatives, child-hood friends, etc that I was not only able to see, but often EXPECTED to see (even when I didn't want to). In other countries, life was much more social, and work was just a tiny part of your social life. In the US, everything is individualistic (and nuclear family oriented) and people rely on the office for socialization.
mym1990 5y ago
As a counterpoint, I loved my commute to work in the Bay. After almost 16 years of not riding a bike, I took a chance on getting one and fell in love with riding around the city. For the first year I also rode BART pretty much every day. It had its downsides but honestly I just learned to have a more positive mindset about it. Obviously this isn't viable solution to many people, and cycling has lots of risks, but its just an anecdote I had. ALSO, the days I had to drive my car in the city were some of the most stressful ever(big car too).
- notyourwork 5y ago
  Bart is beyond a minor downside, it’s absolutely atrocious public transportation.
  - hellbannedguy 5y ago
    Bike & Bart. (Use a bike that you won't care if stolen)
  - erik_seaberg 5y ago
    BART is overcrowded, but thanks to grade separation, it’s the most reliable system I’ve used.
  - bryananderson 5y ago
    This mindset is mind-boggling to me. BART’s operational reliability is excellent. The new cars are really nice. Trains in the core come often. What exactly makes it “absolutely atrocious public transportation”? Of course it doesn’t serve all destinations, but that’s inevitable because the Bay is mostly suburban sprawl.
    - notyourwork 5y ago
      Dirty, noisy, unpleasant rider experience. The terminals are sketchy. Try public transportation in other places (europe) for example. Hands down a better experience all around.
vladvasiliu 5y ago
I've never lived in the US, so I can't comment on the commute situation there, but I live and work in Paris proper and one of the main reasons "I don't want to go to the office" is the commute. I need 30-45 minutes to get there, and our public transit system is supposedly good. But the metro's still too crowded, dirty, smelly, etc. And I even usually avoid rush hour and take an automated, hassle-free line. Commuting by personal motorized vehicle is hell, so you can forget that. I'm contemplating buying an electric bike, but only because I'm lucky I have a place to keep it secure both at the office and at home. The situation may be better in smaller cities, but I think that this consideration still affects a quite sizable bunch of people (20% of the country's population lives in the Paris region).
- sneak 5y ago
  > Commuting by personal motorized vehicle is hell, so you can forget that. This is the standard way of commuting in most of the US.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
    Hell is well-populated.
    - ProdigalFilio 5y ago
      Lmao, underrated comment
- aiisjustanif 5y ago
  I’d take a crowded train any day over driving, though I get why some people loathe it. I miss taking the train when I was in Europe compared to driving in the US. I had the option to read a book some days or play a game. Definitely more options to find joy when compared to driving when I can only choose from podcasts, music and audiobooks The main difference for me is the mode of transport provides different possibilities for joy or benefit. While the cons of biking or walking maybe be sweating and climate, there’s a lot of joy and health benefits to be had if the times are comparable (e.g., 20 minute walk, 20 minute bike ride)
ukyrgf 5y ago
Last week my car wouldn't start when I was heading home. I called AAA and waited. And waited. After 2 hours I went to the street and it's 5 miles of housing developments one way and 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 fast food restaurants the other. I got a $30 Lyft after 4 hours of sitting in the dark at my office. AAA called at 3AM asking if I still needed service... Why would I want to go to the office???
ekianjo 5y ago
Europe only has good public transport in very few selected cities and you have to ignore strikes in France to pretend its working well and is reliable. The city with the best public transport in the world is probably Tokyo in terms of frequency and service reliability but it is constantly over capacity and things are not getting better. Crowded trains are hell. so no commute is certainly better pretty much just anywhere.
- Aeolun 5y ago
  > but it is constantly over capacity and things are not getting better Well, you get used to it. I like reliably crowded trains much better than occasionally crowded trains.
- xyzzyz 5y ago
  I don’t know why this is downvoted. This is very much true. Outside of a handful of largest cities, Europeans are as car-dependent as Americans, and if they drive less, it’s mostly because they are poorer, while cars and gas are more expensive: instead of replacing what in the US would be car trips with public transit, they simply travel less and stay home more. As European nations get wealthier, car ownership rises, and people drive more kilometers. If you use public transit outside of a handful of major cities, you’ll find that it’s full of students and retirees, instead of commuters. Seems to me that many people here simply project their tourist experience while vacationing in London of Paris, as a result getting a wrong image of how people in Europe actually live their lives.
  - rsynnott 5y ago
    > As European nations get wealthier, car ownership rises, and people drive more kilometers I'm not sure this is true. Ireland went from one of the poorest nations in Western Europe to one of the richest from 1990 to now. In Dublin, commuting to work via car has been falling since at least the late 90s, driven by increased traffic, and greatly improved public transport and cycling infrastructure (though still quite bad by European standards); it hit 30% by 2018. The number of cars per capita is still, as far as I know, rising, but they're being used to commute to work less. Rural areas of the country are much more of a mixed bag, and prosperity did drive an increase in driving there (though it has started to fall off a bit during the recovery after the financial crisis). But in urban areas, prosperity does _not_ seem to drive increased car use.
FpUser 5y ago
>"your commute is often much less cumbersome AND you can enjoy some social life after work since you're in the city" Been "from home" for the last 20 years as I am an ISV and pretty much "enjoy some social life" without any commuting to work.
ramblerman 5y ago
This is a very romantic view of Europe. Some cities do it well, but try commuting into Paris, London, Brussels for a year.
- baby 5y ago
  Actually I lived in London and Paris and it was great compared to canada/US were I lived as well.
Johnny555 5y ago
I have this theory that one of the contributing factors to the "I don't want to go to the office" trend in the US (which I'm part of), is that cities are also not made for commuting I live (well lived) within easy biking distance of the office (and commuted by bike nearly every day) and after the first few months of COVID work from home, I didn't ever want to go back to the office. We have an open floor plan office that's loud and not conducive to concentrating on work, and we have a distributed workforce (3 USA locations and 3 international locations), so most meetings had at least one zoom participant. I took advantage of working from home to move farther from the office (now I'm within biking distance of a transit station that will take me to work, but the commute takes over twice as long as it used to), and will do my best to go to the office as little as possible. (we don't have a return to office date yet, but we reportedly won't be expected to be back 5 days a week)
- wiether 5y ago
  Same here. I actually love my commute since it allows me to do 30 minutes of free soft exercise a day. But I hate being at the office. There's nothing I like about it. Noise, disturbances, poor desktop setup, too hot in summer, too hot in winter, no place to take an actual break...
seanmcdirmid 5y ago
I lived in Lausanne and my commute was non trivial (EPFL is on the edge of Lausanne in the middle of a huge field, no housing nearby, even student housing was at least one stop away). I lived in LA and my commute was just two blocks, a 3 minute walk (got an apartment in Westwood next to UCLA). So I guess my experience is a bit different.
barrenko 5y ago
Again, this is a huge generalization. (Almost) no city in the world is built for commuting at current modern volume.
pjc50 5y ago
> Europe, where public transport is really practical, and cities are built for density Hmm, European cities weren't built for commuting or public transport, almost all of them were laid out in the medieval era for walking. They then acquired one or more railway stations in the 19th century, creating commuter ring #1 and becoming an order of magnitude larger, and may have been partially redesigned for cars in the 20th century, creating commuter ring #2. A popular conversion was demolishing the medieval-era city walls and replacing them with a ring road. Some were entirely flattened during the war, although generally rebuilt on the same plan. Now most American cities were by comparison entirely designed for commuting ... by car. The problem with car commuting is that once you're over capacity it slows down the experience for everyone. Public transport just jams you in physically, which was uncomfortable before the pandemic and now just a nightmare. An overcrowded train is not slower than an empty one. (Subway throughput can be embark/disembark limited, though) The difference to me seems to be the walkable core. That in turn depends on norms about use of public space and perceptions of public safety. I'm slightly biased, but I think the Edinburgh New Town design with a couple of modern adaptations could be the ideal even for the 21st century. Grid layout, four to six floors, high ceilings, decent size windows, wide streets, occasional shop on the corner or restaurant in the basement. ("New" here means 18th century https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Town,_Edinburgh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Town,_Edinburgh, not "new" as in postwar new town or medieval New Forest)
- stormgrab 5y ago
  The whole medieval cities designed for walking is not actually true. Not just bikes youtube channel(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnKIVX968PQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnKIVX968PQ) has a great video about this. Here he has taken Houston as an example.
- ben_w 5y ago
  > I'm slightly biased, but I think the Edinburgh New Town design with a couple of modern adaptations could be the ideal even for the 21st century. Grid layout, four to six floors, high ceilings, decent size windows, wide streets, occasional shop on the corner or restaurant in the basement. Likewise Berlin, though a bit taller: https://goo.gl/maps/HyMJsSFKQNErfWJZA https://goo.gl/maps/HyMJsSFKQNErfWJZA (New Town reminds me a lot of some parts of Cambridge; I think it’s the stone colour and some of the motifs).
nivenkos 5y ago
Europe is just as bad. House prices are obscene in/near big cities, and commuting still sucks (used to do 2 hours each way in London!).
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
DrJaws 5y ago
yeah no, tell that to someone living in for example paris, london or madrid, where even with decent public transport you are gonna lose on average a bare minimum of 2 hours daily commuting to work.
barnacled 5y ago
As somebody who works in London, you are right that infra is much better here than at least some places in the US (was shocked when I visited Austin) but the commute is brutal, overcrowded and often unreliable. For example the train line I used to rely on would fail 1-2 times a weeks such that I has to find another way into the office. Unless you're rich you will be living 40 mins - 1hr out, I am more like 1hr20 so I can own a home that isn't tiny or in a high crime area. The commute costs, if I pay a year in advance, ~£5k/yr, set to go up by 10-15% next yr. Generally speaking, and especially taking into account the climate crisis, it really doesn't make much sense to do all this even when there is more infra. It is time for more companies to accept that WFH is largely a win/win.

by baby 5y ago

felipellrocha 5y ago

Yeah, it’s an infrastructure problem. I love my commute because it allows me to disconnect from work after I’m done with it. I don’t think my American colleagues understand that, even though i get a lot of sympathy from my European colleagues. I had to, though, be intentional about setting up my commute so i had time to read a book to and fro, and I’m sure not everyone is willing to think about it in those terms. I foresee a movement in a few years of “commute forward” people trying to improve on their work-life balance, once they realize how much of life they’re going to be missing once they start commingling work and home life together.

roguas 5y ago
I hate the commute, I love the cache clearing it provided. It can be easily replaced by a hike in the afternoon or a book session in the garden.
DoingIsLearning 5y ago
> I foresee a movement in a few years of “commute forward” people trying to improve on their work-life balance, once they realize how much of life they’re going to be missing once they start commingling work and home life together. Could we just agree that people are different and that some of us do not feel the way you do? When I'm working I put on work clothes, I sit at my work desk and I take my work coffee cup. When I am done, I roll down my roll-top desk, and go pick up the kids on foot. Arguably I appreciate that work culture in North-America and Asia may not be conducive of this. But ultimately we can all have the separation we need. For me I built it around routines and work/leisure separation. For you it is your commute. Could we not let us both have what we want?

Steltek 5y ago

Boston is often compared to a European city. I also think I fit your observation pretty well, as I can't wait to be back in our downtown office. I'm looking forward to a 25 minute bike commute and being in a lively area packed with things to do. The routine gives me a little bit of everything (exercise, people, fresh air, and amenities) and it's conveniently built right into the work day.

mgkimsal 5y ago
I see the 'European' connection moreso than some other cities here in the US. I've visited Boston twice - once just a few weeks ago - and I could definitely see some attraction of living/working there. It seemed way too expensive to actually live in for my budget, but I may have just gotten too accustomed to a LCOL area. I enjoyed the breadth and depth of the city, and have some family living there at the moment, so I expect I'll get to enjoy a bit more of it next year.

sbrother 5y ago

This hits home. I've been working remotely ever since we moved away from LA, largely because the traffic situation there was just unbearable. I don't even know how people with kids do it, since it takes hours to drive a few miles on each side of the work day, how do you drop off/pick up kids from daycare? I realize it's incredibly privileged position to be in but I actually don't know how we'd fit office-based work into our lives again with two kids under 5 -- I guess you have to pay for a nanny and accept that you get to see your kids on the weekends.

sjg007 5y ago
In LA or California really you can put your kids in schools by your office.

refurb 5y ago

Obviously it's a personal preference, but most people I know who have easy commutes (<20 min, walk, bike or public transit) still don't want to go into the office. Neither do I. It might be nice for a change of pace of a specific purpose (i.e. planning meeting that is just easier in-person). If I want to go downtown and socialize with coworkers, I can do that after work (and have while WFH).

Ozzie_osman 5y ago

> cities are also not made for commuting. Coming from Europe... I moved from the Middle East to the US. Cairo was a shit city for commuting. But that didn't stop socializing, because the other big difference between the US and many other countries is how individualistic and work-based society is. Back home, I had relatives, child-hood friends, etc that I was not only able to see, but often EXPECTED to see (even when I didn't want to). In other countries, life was much more social, and work was just a tiny part of your social life. In the US, everything is individualistic (and nuclear family oriented) and people rely on the office for socialization.

mym1990 5y ago

As a counterpoint, I loved my commute to work in the Bay. After almost 16 years of not riding a bike, I took a chance on getting one and fell in love with riding around the city. For the first year I also rode BART pretty much every day. It had its downsides but honestly I just learned to have a more positive mindset about it. Obviously this isn't viable solution to many people, and cycling has lots of risks, but its just an anecdote I had. ALSO, the days I had to drive my car in the city were some of the most stressful ever(big car too).

notyourwork 5y ago
Bart is beyond a minor downside, it’s absolutely atrocious public transportation.
- hellbannedguy 5y ago
  Bike & Bart. (Use a bike that you won't care if stolen)
- erik_seaberg 5y ago
  BART is overcrowded, but thanks to grade separation, it’s the most reliable system I’ve used.
- bryananderson 5y ago
  This mindset is mind-boggling to me. BART’s operational reliability is excellent. The new cars are really nice. Trains in the core come often. What exactly makes it “absolutely atrocious public transportation”? Of course it doesn’t serve all destinations, but that’s inevitable because the Bay is mostly suburban sprawl.
  - notyourwork 5y ago
    Dirty, noisy, unpleasant rider experience. The terminals are sketchy. Try public transportation in other places (europe) for example. Hands down a better experience all around.

vladvasiliu 5y ago

I've never lived in the US, so I can't comment on the commute situation there, but I live and work in Paris proper and one of the main reasons "I don't want to go to the office" is the commute. I need 30-45 minutes to get there, and our public transit system is supposedly good. But the metro's still too crowded, dirty, smelly, etc. And I even usually avoid rush hour and take an automated, hassle-free line. Commuting by personal motorized vehicle is hell, so you can forget that. I'm contemplating buying an electric bike, but only because I'm lucky I have a place to keep it secure both at the office and at home. The situation may be better in smaller cities, but I think that this consideration still affects a quite sizable bunch of people (20% of the country's population lives in the Paris region).

sneak 5y ago
> Commuting by personal motorized vehicle is hell, so you can forget that. This is the standard way of commuting in most of the US.
- SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
  Hell is well-populated.
  - ProdigalFilio 5y ago
    Lmao, underrated comment
aiisjustanif 5y ago
I’d take a crowded train any day over driving, though I get why some people loathe it. I miss taking the train when I was in Europe compared to driving in the US. I had the option to read a book some days or play a game. Definitely more options to find joy when compared to driving when I can only choose from podcasts, music and audiobooks The main difference for me is the mode of transport provides different possibilities for joy or benefit. While the cons of biking or walking maybe be sweating and climate, there’s a lot of joy and health benefits to be had if the times are comparable (e.g., 20 minute walk, 20 minute bike ride)

ukyrgf 5y ago

Last week my car wouldn't start when I was heading home. I called AAA and waited. And waited. After 2 hours I went to the street and it's 5 miles of housing developments one way and 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 fast food restaurants the other. I got a $30 Lyft after 4 hours of sitting in the dark at my office. AAA called at 3AM asking if I still needed service... Why would I want to go to the office???

ekianjo 5y ago

Europe only has good public transport in very few selected cities and you have to ignore strikes in France to pretend its working well and is reliable. The city with the best public transport in the world is probably Tokyo in terms of frequency and service reliability but it is constantly over capacity and things are not getting better. Crowded trains are hell. so no commute is certainly better pretty much just anywhere.

Aeolun 5y ago
> but it is constantly over capacity and things are not getting better Well, you get used to it. I like reliably crowded trains much better than occasionally crowded trains.
xyzzyz 5y ago
I don’t know why this is downvoted. This is very much true. Outside of a handful of largest cities, Europeans are as car-dependent as Americans, and if they drive less, it’s mostly because they are poorer, while cars and gas are more expensive: instead of replacing what in the US would be car trips with public transit, they simply travel less and stay home more. As European nations get wealthier, car ownership rises, and people drive more kilometers. If you use public transit outside of a handful of major cities, you’ll find that it’s full of students and retirees, instead of commuters. Seems to me that many people here simply project their tourist experience while vacationing in London of Paris, as a result getting a wrong image of how people in Europe actually live their lives.
- rsynnott 5y ago
  > As European nations get wealthier, car ownership rises, and people drive more kilometers I'm not sure this is true. Ireland went from one of the poorest nations in Western Europe to one of the richest from 1990 to now. In Dublin, commuting to work via car has been falling since at least the late 90s, driven by increased traffic, and greatly improved public transport and cycling infrastructure (though still quite bad by European standards); it hit 30% by 2018. The number of cars per capita is still, as far as I know, rising, but they're being used to commute to work less. Rural areas of the country are much more of a mixed bag, and prosperity did drive an increase in driving there (though it has started to fall off a bit during the recovery after the financial crisis). But in urban areas, prosperity does _not_ seem to drive increased car use.

FpUser 5y ago

>"your commute is often much less cumbersome AND you can enjoy some social life after work since you're in the city" Been "from home" for the last 20 years as I am an ISV and pretty much "enjoy some social life" without any commuting to work.

ramblerman 5y ago

This is a very romantic view of Europe. Some cities do it well, but try commuting into Paris, London, Brussels for a year.

baby 5y ago
Actually I lived in London and Paris and it was great compared to canada/US were I lived as well.

Johnny555 5y ago

I have this theory that one of the contributing factors to the "I don't want to go to the office" trend in the US (which I'm part of), is that cities are also not made for commuting I live (well lived) within easy biking distance of the office (and commuted by bike nearly every day) and after the first few months of COVID work from home, I didn't ever want to go back to the office. We have an open floor plan office that's loud and not conducive to concentrating on work, and we have a distributed workforce (3 USA locations and 3 international locations), so most meetings had at least one zoom participant. I took advantage of working from home to move farther from the office (now I'm within biking distance of a transit station that will take me to work, but the commute takes over twice as long as it used to), and will do my best to go to the office as little as possible. (we don't have a return to office date yet, but we reportedly won't be expected to be back 5 days a week)

wiether 5y ago
Same here. I actually love my commute since it allows me to do 30 minutes of free soft exercise a day. But I hate being at the office. There's nothing I like about it. Noise, disturbances, poor desktop setup, too hot in summer, too hot in winter, no place to take an actual break...

seanmcdirmid 5y ago

I lived in Lausanne and my commute was non trivial (EPFL is on the edge of Lausanne in the middle of a huge field, no housing nearby, even student housing was at least one stop away). I lived in LA and my commute was just two blocks, a 3 minute walk (got an apartment in Westwood next to UCLA). So I guess my experience is a bit different.

barrenko 5y ago

Again, this is a huge generalization. (Almost) no city in the world is built for commuting at current modern volume.

pjc50 5y ago

> Europe, where public transport is really practical, and cities are built for density Hmm, European cities weren't built for commuting or public transport, almost all of them were laid out in the medieval era for walking. They then acquired one or more railway stations in the 19th century, creating commuter ring #1 and becoming an order of magnitude larger, and may have been partially redesigned for cars in the 20th century, creating commuter ring #2. A popular conversion was demolishing the medieval-era city walls and replacing them with a ring road. Some were entirely flattened during the war, although generally rebuilt on the same plan. Now most American cities were by comparison entirely designed for commuting ... by car. The problem with car commuting is that once you're over capacity it slows down the experience for everyone. Public transport just jams you in physically, which was uncomfortable before the pandemic and now just a nightmare. An overcrowded train is not slower than an empty one. (Subway throughput can be embark/disembark limited, though) The difference to me seems to be the walkable core. That in turn depends on norms about use of public space and perceptions of public safety. I'm slightly biased, but I think the Edinburgh New Town design with a couple of modern adaptations could be the ideal even for the 21st century. Grid layout, four to six floors, high ceilings, decent size windows, wide streets, occasional shop on the corner or restaurant in the basement. ("New" here means 18th century https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Town,_Edinburgh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Town,_Edinburgh, not "new" as in postwar new town or medieval New Forest)

stormgrab 5y ago
The whole medieval cities designed for walking is not actually true. Not just bikes youtube channel(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnKIVX968PQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnKIVX968PQ) has a great video about this. Here he has taken Houston as an example.
ben_w 5y ago
> I'm slightly biased, but I think the Edinburgh New Town design with a couple of modern adaptations could be the ideal even for the 21st century. Grid layout, four to six floors, high ceilings, decent size windows, wide streets, occasional shop on the corner or restaurant in the basement. Likewise Berlin, though a bit taller: https://goo.gl/maps/HyMJsSFKQNErfWJZA https://goo.gl/maps/HyMJsSFKQNErfWJZA (New Town reminds me a lot of some parts of Cambridge; I think it’s the stone colour and some of the motifs).

nivenkos 5y ago

Europe is just as bad. House prices are obscene in/near big cities, and commuting still sucks (used to do 2 hours each way in London!).

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

DrJaws 5y ago

yeah no, tell that to someone living in for example paris, london or madrid, where even with decent public transport you are gonna lose on average a bare minimum of 2 hours daily commuting to work.

barnacled 5y ago

As somebody who works in London, you are right that infra is much better here than at least some places in the US (was shocked when I visited Austin) but the commute is brutal, overcrowded and often unreliable. For example the train line I used to rely on would fail 1-2 times a weeks such that I has to find another way into the office. Unless you're rich you will be living 40 mins - 1hr out, I am more like 1hr20 so I can own a home that isn't tiny or in a high crime area. The commute costs, if I pay a year in advance, ~£5k/yr, set to go up by 10-15% next yr. Generally speaking, and especially taking into account the climate crisis, it really doesn't make much sense to do all this even when there is more infra. It is time for more companies to accept that WFH is largely a win/win.