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Fucking Bitcoin. Is there any other “technology” that’s so wasteful as-well as it’s completely useless?

by literallyWTF 5y ago

axiolite 5y ago
> Is there any other “technology” that’s so wasteful as-well as it’s completely useless? Screen savers?
- xkeysc0re 5y ago
  Not if you still have older CRT monitors or plasma screens. Also login / lock screens are essentially just screen savers
  - axiolite 5y ago
    Screen blanking and DPMS power-off accomplish the same goals, with considerably less energy usage.
    - floatingatoll 5y ago
      Didn’t it used to be necessary to exercise the pixels to keep them from burning in, rather than just turning off the screen? Or is that a thing that started with plasma TVs.
soylentnewsorg 5y ago
define useless. toys are useless. playing cards are useless. what exactly is the purpose of sports - having a ball go in a round wire hole? oh, that's entertainment and people need that. well so is this. it's quite literally playing poker. now, as far as wasteful - cruise ships are worse. people using non-rechargeable AA batteries.
- pishpash 5y ago
  Most games are entertaining because they improve overall fitness so we're rewarded with a dopamine hit for positive reinforcement: toys - develops mental capacity of infants sports - improves health outcomes and/or teamwork playing poker - trains models of decision under uncertainty Now, Bitcoin mining - ?
  - BLKNSLVR 5y ago
    Bitcoin mining provides security for a global, decentralized currency / payment system. If we disagree on the value Bitcoin provides to society, then we'll disagree on the power usage. The value Bitcoin provides to society isn't, and shouldn't, be judged on any specific point in time or it's unsuitability at it's core function or whatever else, it should, and will eventually, be judged on the disruption and change it brings. For better or worse.
  - soylentnewsorg 5y ago
    lol this is literally all false. toys - no, the gi-joe does not improve anyone's mental capacity. sports - are mostly played because people all over the world spend billions per year watching them. the athletes who play them end up with a damaged body, permanent injuries, and lots of back problems after 30. playing poker - the old man losing his house in vegas is training. gotcha. now, bitcoin mining - people want to do it, people are paying money for the energy to do it, and that's all you need to know.
solotronics 5y ago
Christmas lights use way more electricity per year than Bitcoin mining. 6.6 billion kw/h for Christmas lights, 33 million Christmas trees grown and shipped around.
- Dylan16807 5y ago
  Huh, we should move more of those to LED. But bitcoin uses more than 80 billion.
- varajelle 5y ago
  kw/h?
  - soylentnewsorg 5y ago
    kwh is just as dumb a term though, although correct. you're taking joules per hour and then multiplying it by an hour. highway speed limit is 90kmkgWlboz/(hkgWlboz).
- lordnacho 5y ago
  Issue isn't that crypto users more than this or that other thing. Issue is that any other thing becomes more and more efficient with time. Crypto pow will eat literally any sized cake and waste it. We could invent fusion and crypto would eat that too.
nlitened 5y ago
The entire consumer economy?
- pishpash 5y ago
  You do not need to consume, and only invest?
  - nlitened 5y ago
    Sorry, my comment was tongue-in-cheek. In my opinion, it takes quite a bit of hypocrisy or doublethink for people who drive cars (but not bycicles), who live in apartments or houses (but not in dormitories), to type on their Macs and iPhones (but not the cheapest barely-working lagging knockoff dumbphone) about Bitcoin’s waste or pollution with plastic straws, all while having their free time, instead of working in Gulags. There’s a market price for electricity, anyone who pays can do whatever they want with it. Just stop the subsidies, include externalities in the price, and let things figure themselves out. Let people consume, and enjoy life, let them have hobbies, and do stupid things that they pay for.
  - imtringued 5y ago
    What does it mean to invest if nobody consumes? Why not just work less? Anyway, if every invests and nobody consumes, then investment itself becomes consumption because e.g. factories need maintenance even if they don't produce anything. Investments are usually self supporting, you intend to at least get your money back. Something obvious: If investments make losses then people stop investing. There is a problem though. Buying existing real estate in popular locations is more profitable so people spend their money on something that basically provides no benefit to society. Yes, invest your money by building more housing and renting the properties out, don't invest by speculating on appreciation. There is also another problematic "investment". Without inflation, holding onto money is never unprofitable so not only do businesses and their workers have to compete with real estate, they also have to compete with money during a recession! That is why we have some mild inflation, inflation is basically a maintenance fee on money and it makes sense because e.g. labor and food cannot be stored indefinitely.
noipv4 5y ago
Dunno, maybe gasoline powered leaf blowers? it moves a problem from one place to another without solving it, wastes valuable energy and makes a lot of noise
- panarky 5y ago
  And they're astoundingly dirty. There are more cars than leaf blowers, but all leaf blowers in aggregate pollute more than all the cars in aggregate.
  - BuyMyBitcoins 5y ago
    And, all the dust and crap they loft into the air. My biggest pet peeve with people using leaf blowers is how the users always seem to throttle them up and down rather than keep them at a steady speed. Up down up down up down, it’s maddening.
    - nitrogen 5y ago
      If they ran at constant speed they would be even more polluting though. I found myself responsible for a yard for the first time recently, because it was the only housing option that met my needs. Battery operated everything is the way to go these days.
panarky 5y ago
If you add up all the power wasted by power supplies plugged into the wall but not charging a device, that's more energy than bitcoin. Add to that all the devices plugged in but not in use, then you're at multiples of bitcoin's energy usage.
matheusmoreira 5y ago
Consumer products made in China. Advertising.
BLKNSLVR 5y ago
I hope I'm not just feeding a troll, but my appreciation for Bitcoin has only increased with the more I hear and read about the blatant corruption of worldwide banking and finance systems. The more time passes, the more value I find in the existence of Bitcoin, and therefore the value of the power usage that secures it's network.
me_me_me 5y ago
Cruse ships, keeping green lawns in desert areas, streaming music, probably 1/2 of the internet is serving people who are bored and are wasting time, designing suburbs to force people to drive to shop, design that forces out public transportation. Planned obsolescence combined with rabid consumptionism causing massive waste and pollution.

Fucking Bitcoin. Is there any other “technology” that’s so wasteful as-well as it’s completely useless?

axiolite 5y ago

> Is there any other “technology” that’s so wasteful as-well as it’s completely useless? Screen savers?

xkeysc0re 5y ago
Not if you still have older CRT monitors or plasma screens. Also login / lock screens are essentially just screen savers
- axiolite 5y ago
  Screen blanking and DPMS power-off accomplish the same goals, with considerably less energy usage.
  - floatingatoll 5y ago
    Didn’t it used to be necessary to exercise the pixels to keep them from burning in, rather than just turning off the screen? Or is that a thing that started with plasma TVs.

soylentnewsorg 5y ago

define useless. toys are useless. playing cards are useless. what exactly is the purpose of sports - having a ball go in a round wire hole? oh, that's entertainment and people need that. well so is this. it's quite literally playing poker. now, as far as wasteful - cruise ships are worse. people using non-rechargeable AA batteries.

pishpash 5y ago
Most games are entertaining because they improve overall fitness so we're rewarded with a dopamine hit for positive reinforcement: toys - develops mental capacity of infants sports - improves health outcomes and/or teamwork playing poker - trains models of decision under uncertainty Now, Bitcoin mining - ?
- BLKNSLVR 5y ago
  Bitcoin mining provides security for a global, decentralized currency / payment system. If we disagree on the value Bitcoin provides to society, then we'll disagree on the power usage. The value Bitcoin provides to society isn't, and shouldn't, be judged on any specific point in time or it's unsuitability at it's core function or whatever else, it should, and will eventually, be judged on the disruption and change it brings. For better or worse.
- soylentnewsorg 5y ago
  lol this is literally all false. toys - no, the gi-joe does not improve anyone's mental capacity. sports - are mostly played because people all over the world spend billions per year watching them. the athletes who play them end up with a damaged body, permanent injuries, and lots of back problems after 30. playing poker - the old man losing his house in vegas is training. gotcha. now, bitcoin mining - people want to do it, people are paying money for the energy to do it, and that's all you need to know.

solotronics 5y ago

Christmas lights use way more electricity per year than Bitcoin mining. 6.6 billion kw/h for Christmas lights, 33 million Christmas trees grown and shipped around.

Dylan16807 5y ago
Huh, we should move more of those to LED. But bitcoin uses more than 80 billion.
varajelle 5y ago
kw/h?
- soylentnewsorg 5y ago
  kwh is just as dumb a term though, although correct. you're taking joules per hour and then multiplying it by an hour. highway speed limit is 90kmkgWlboz/(hkgWlboz).
lordnacho 5y ago
Issue isn't that crypto users more than this or that other thing. Issue is that any other thing becomes more and more efficient with time. Crypto pow will eat literally any sized cake and waste it. We could invent fusion and crypto would eat that too.

nlitened 5y ago

The entire consumer economy?

pishpash 5y ago
You do not need to consume, and only invest?
- nlitened 5y ago
  Sorry, my comment was tongue-in-cheek. In my opinion, it takes quite a bit of hypocrisy or doublethink for people who drive cars (but not bycicles), who live in apartments or houses (but not in dormitories), to type on their Macs and iPhones (but not the cheapest barely-working lagging knockoff dumbphone) about Bitcoin’s waste or pollution with plastic straws, all while having their free time, instead of working in Gulags. There’s a market price for electricity, anyone who pays can do whatever they want with it. Just stop the subsidies, include externalities in the price, and let things figure themselves out. Let people consume, and enjoy life, let them have hobbies, and do stupid things that they pay for.
- imtringued 5y ago
  What does it mean to invest if nobody consumes? Why not just work less? Anyway, if every invests and nobody consumes, then investment itself becomes consumption because e.g. factories need maintenance even if they don't produce anything. Investments are usually self supporting, you intend to at least get your money back. Something obvious: If investments make losses then people stop investing. There is a problem though. Buying existing real estate in popular locations is more profitable so people spend their money on something that basically provides no benefit to society. Yes, invest your money by building more housing and renting the properties out, don't invest by speculating on appreciation. There is also another problematic "investment". Without inflation, holding onto money is never unprofitable so not only do businesses and their workers have to compete with real estate, they also have to compete with money during a recession! That is why we have some mild inflation, inflation is basically a maintenance fee on money and it makes sense because e.g. labor and food cannot be stored indefinitely.

noipv4 5y ago

Dunno, maybe gasoline powered leaf blowers? it moves a problem from one place to another without solving it, wastes valuable energy and makes a lot of noise

panarky 5y ago
And they're astoundingly dirty. There are more cars than leaf blowers, but all leaf blowers in aggregate pollute more than all the cars in aggregate.
- BuyMyBitcoins 5y ago
  And, all the dust and crap they loft into the air. My biggest pet peeve with people using leaf blowers is how the users always seem to throttle them up and down rather than keep them at a steady speed. Up down up down up down, it’s maddening.
  - nitrogen 5y ago
    If they ran at constant speed they would be even more polluting though. I found myself responsible for a yard for the first time recently, because it was the only housing option that met my needs. Battery operated everything is the way to go these days.

panarky 5y ago

If you add up all the power wasted by power supplies plugged into the wall but not charging a device, that's more energy than bitcoin. Add to that all the devices plugged in but not in use, then you're at multiples of bitcoin's energy usage.

matheusmoreira 5y ago

Consumer products made in China. Advertising.

BLKNSLVR 5y ago

I hope I'm not just feeding a troll, but my appreciation for Bitcoin has only increased with the more I hear and read about the blatant corruption of worldwide banking and finance systems. The more time passes, the more value I find in the existence of Bitcoin, and therefore the value of the power usage that secures it's network.

me_me_me 5y ago

Cruse ships, keeping green lawns in desert areas, streaming music, probably 1/2 of the internet is serving people who are bored and are wasting time, designing suburbs to force people to drive to shop, design that forces out public transportation. Planned obsolescence combined with rabid consumptionism causing massive waste and pollution.