11 ms·

Aren't permanent residents foreign workers as well? Permanent resident =/= citizen?

by rvba 5y ago

refurb 5y ago
Just the classification in Singapore. PRs are kind of an "in between".
guywhocodes 5y ago
"Foreign worker" means being on a work-visa, in Singapore this means you have very few rights and your stay is motivated only by your job. You get 30d to land a new job and pass the visa process, which takes minimum two weeks. Or get out. Long term visit passes are provided for spouses and children of citizens/PRs, they can apply to be allowed to work. Dependent passes are the same but for foreign workers, they may not apply work in Singapore. Permanent Resident is the only way for a foreigner to stay long term and work in Singapore out of their own merit. And the requirement are probably more like what you expect for citizenship. Currently it's essentially impossible to become citizen if you were not born to Singaporean citizens. However in the past citizenship has been offered to PR-holders.
dustintrex 5y ago
Singapore has a strict caste hierarchy, which looks like this: * Citizen. * Permanent resident (PR). Previously given out in boxes of cereal, particularly if of Chinese descent, now very difficult to attain. Military service required for male children. * Employment pass. Professional expats with high qualifying salaries (depends on age, educational qualifications etc, but generally $5000/mo minimum). Pass tied to job, 30 days to get out of the country/find new sponsor if job ends. No subsidies for education, health etc, but can bring in families, marry locals, eventually apply for PR. * S-pass. Semi-professional roles (eg. construction foreman), strict limits on how many can be employed. * Work pass. Disposable laborers in construction, factories, landscaping, etc. No path to become residents, cannot marry Singaporeans (edit: without explicit government approval), generally brutally exploited and for the past two years 100% confined to their dormitories and worksites. * Foreign domestic workers aka maids/helpers. Disposable laborers living and working in Singaporean households. Not covered by employment legislation, so can be legally forced to work 365/24/7 with no holidays whatsoever. Not uncommonly physically confined (locked in) to the employer's apartment, denied means of communicating with the outside world, and have both their passports and salaries confiscated for "safekeeping".
- dendriti 5y ago
  Work pass holders can absolutely marry Singaporeans. It just takes an extra step. I know you're trying to portray Singapore in the worst possible light, but false claims are not necessary to do so.
  - dustintrex 5y ago
    EP holders, being upper caste, can marry Singaporeans and I noted so above. WP holders require approval, which is granted or not on opaque grounds and frequently denied. https://www.mom.gov.sg/faq/foreign-worker/as-a-work-permit-holder-how-do-i-apply-for-approval-to-marry-a-singaporean-or-permanent-resident https://www.mom.gov.sg/faq/foreign-worker/as-a-work-permit-h... https://www.asiaone.com/print/News/Latest%2BNews/Singapore/Story/A1Story20121105-381617.html https://www.asiaone.com/print/News/Latest%2BNews/Singapore/S...
    - usaar333 5y ago
      What's the reason for this? I assume it's to combat marriage fraud, but is that not the case?
      - dustintrex 5y ago
        Lee Kuan Yew's theories of eugenics and fear of maids having anchor babies and breaking upstanding Singaporean nuclear families. https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2021/06/16/when-pregnancy-is-a-crime/ https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2021/06/16/when-pregnancy-is-...
  - EP_in_SG 5y ago
    Anybody with experience of Singapore knows that despite the shining-libertarian-city facade, certain things are deliberately opaque. There are no "extra steps" for the first caste, EPs get processed blindingly fast. But when "extra steps" are put in, they are circuit-breakers with the "intent to deny" and no explanation required. The "health measures" to protect Singapore during COVID were implemented by the Ministry of Manpower. The "optics" as Singaporeans would say, are bad on the face of it. The reality is worse. I, with my November 2007 account, feel the need to use a sock-puppet on HN!
irjustin 5y ago
mmmm yes, but this question is fundamentally trying to stick a person into 1 of 2 buckets. Singapore and many other countries recognize immigrants, which is what the PR/Green card/etc bucket is for - a merit path to citizenship. Doesn't have to be so black and white.

Aren't permanent residents foreign workers as well? Permanent resident =/= citizen?

by rvba 5y ago

Aren't permanent residents foreign workers as well? Permanent resident =/= citizen?

refurb 5y ago

Just the classification in Singapore. PRs are kind of an "in between".

guywhocodes 5y ago

"Foreign worker" means being on a work-visa, in Singapore this means you have very few rights and your stay is motivated only by your job. You get 30d to land a new job and pass the visa process, which takes minimum two weeks. Or get out. Long term visit passes are provided for spouses and children of citizens/PRs, they can apply to be allowed to work. Dependent passes are the same but for foreign workers, they may not apply work in Singapore. Permanent Resident is the only way for a foreigner to stay long term and work in Singapore out of their own merit. And the requirement are probably more like what you expect for citizenship. Currently it's essentially impossible to become citizen if you were not born to Singaporean citizens. However in the past citizenship has been offered to PR-holders.

dustintrex 5y ago

Singapore has a strict caste hierarchy, which looks like this: * Citizen. * Permanent resident (PR). Previously given out in boxes of cereal, particularly if of Chinese descent, now very difficult to attain. Military service required for male children. * Employment pass. Professional expats with high qualifying salaries (depends on age, educational qualifications etc, but generally $5000/mo minimum). Pass tied to job, 30 days to get out of the country/find new sponsor if job ends. No subsidies for education, health etc, but can bring in families, marry locals, eventually apply for PR. * S-pass. Semi-professional roles (eg. construction foreman), strict limits on how many can be employed. * Work pass. Disposable laborers in construction, factories, landscaping, etc. No path to become residents, cannot marry Singaporeans (edit: without explicit government approval), generally brutally exploited and for the past two years 100% confined to their dormitories and worksites. * Foreign domestic workers aka maids/helpers. Disposable laborers living and working in Singaporean households. Not covered by employment legislation, so can be legally forced to work 365/24/7 with no holidays whatsoever. Not uncommonly physically confined (locked in) to the employer's apartment, denied means of communicating with the outside world, and have both their passports and salaries confiscated for "safekeeping".

dendriti 5y ago
Work pass holders can absolutely marry Singaporeans. It just takes an extra step. I know you're trying to portray Singapore in the worst possible light, but false claims are not necessary to do so.
- dustintrex 5y ago
  EP holders, being upper caste, can marry Singaporeans and I noted so above. WP holders require approval, which is granted or not on opaque grounds and frequently denied. https://www.mom.gov.sg/faq/foreign-worker/as-a-work-permit-holder-how-do-i-apply-for-approval-to-marry-a-singaporean-or-permanent-resident https://www.mom.gov.sg/faq/foreign-worker/as-a-work-permit-h... https://www.asiaone.com/print/News/Latest%2BNews/Singapore/Story/A1Story20121105-381617.html https://www.asiaone.com/print/News/Latest%2BNews/Singapore/S...
  - usaar333 5y ago
    What's the reason for this? I assume it's to combat marriage fraud, but is that not the case?
    - dustintrex 5y ago
      Lee Kuan Yew's theories of eugenics and fear of maids having anchor babies and breaking upstanding Singaporean nuclear families. https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2021/06/16/when-pregnancy-is-a-crime/ https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2021/06/16/when-pregnancy-is-...
- EP_in_SG 5y ago
  Anybody with experience of Singapore knows that despite the shining-libertarian-city facade, certain things are deliberately opaque. There are no "extra steps" for the first caste, EPs get processed blindingly fast. But when "extra steps" are put in, they are circuit-breakers with the "intent to deny" and no explanation required. The "health measures" to protect Singapore during COVID were implemented by the Ministry of Manpower. The "optics" as Singaporeans would say, are bad on the face of it. The reality is worse. I, with my November 2007 account, feel the need to use a sock-puppet on HN!

irjustin 5y ago

mmmm yes, but this question is fundamentally trying to stick a person into 1 of 2 buckets. Singapore and many other countries recognize immigrants, which is what the PR/Green card/etc bucket is for - a merit path to citizenship. Doesn't have to be so black and white.