28 ms·

Windows 11 review: An unnecessary replacement for Windows 10

151 points by dantondwa 5y ago

theHIDninja 5y ago
The problem is that the money Microsoft makes from telemetry and shunting ads in the star menu FAR outweighs any financial pressure on them to make a decent OS. If that source of income was somehow shunted then they would actually go back to making something functional.
arepublicadoceu 5y ago
My plan is to stick to windows 10 until full nvidia support for wayland arrive. Hopefully, 5 years is enough as things started to get better lately.
- ginko 5y ago
  Or you could just buy an AMD GPU.
  - arepublicadoceu 5y ago
    Or I can just not generate e-waste by using my perfectly capable device until the end of its life.
    - tjoff 5y ago
      Selling is an option, or using it for passthrough.
      - arepublicadoceu 5y ago
        It’s a laptop. I’m not interested in selling it as it’s a great laptop and works fine for my needs. I’m a patient men and I can wait 5 years easily for proper wayland support. If it doesn’t come, then I think about selling it. I’ve tried gpu pass through it was more annoying then installing arch to set it up. And made me realize that my dGPU is wired to my HDMI so I can’t use my hdmi while my dGPU is on my virtual machine. Anyway, I’m not complaining about windows 10, I quite like it as everything works out of the box.
    - wtallis 5y ago
      It sounds like it's pretty far from "perfectly" capable according to your needs.
      - arepublicadoceu 5y ago
        How exactly do you know what my needs are? I don’t “need” to run Linux on it for the next 5 years as windows 10 will continue to be supported.
        wtallis 5y ago
        I was assuming that if you actually knew enough about Linux to know that your use cases require full Wayland support and cannot be satisfied by X11, then you are probably already using Linux to some extent. It didn't seem realistic that you could have come to such a conclusion about Wayland if using Linux at all is merely a distant hypothetical to you.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
  - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
    Buying a GPU in 2021 is tricky for most people.
- smoldesu 5y ago
  I've got a 1050ti that handles x11 and Wayland perfectly fine. I haven't put Wayland through it's paces with any games, but I've heard that the Nvidia 470.xx updates added in dramatically better xWayland support.
- chungy 5y ago
  You don't need to wait any longer. NVIDIA updated their driver for full Wayland support a few months ago.
  - zokier 5y ago
    Sounds pretty rough still https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NVIDIA-GBM-Works-With-Sway https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NVIDIA-G... Unless I'm misreading that completely its saying that Sway support is not yet even in beta.
- mshroyer 5y ago
  Even though my new Framework laptop supports Wayland, unfortunately I'll probably end up installing Windows on it. And largely because of the display manager. Wayland itself works great on Ubuntu 21.04. But the screen resolution means I must run at a fractional resolution for it to be usable. And many of my apps require special flags to work directly with Wayland (Chrome and Electron apps), some exhibit bugs when running under Wayland (VS Code), and some don't directly support Wayland at all yet (IntelliJ IDEA)—meaning they have to run under X11 compatibility and suffer from blurry text at fractional scales: https://intellij-support.jetbrains.com/hc/en-us/articles/4403794663570 https://intellij-support.jetbrains.com/hc/en-us/articles/440... I can still run Xorg of course, with the old requisite tweaks to prevent screen tearing on Intel graphics. But directly comparing the performance of Wayland and Xorg on the same machine seems night and day to me (in Wayland's favor, at least under fractional scaling), so I'll likely resort to Windows 10 until the app ecosystem catches up to Wayland. (And that makes me sad: I actually prefer Linux for several non-ideological reasons, ranging from ZFS to not relying on unstable registry hacks to invert my mouse's scroll wheel.)
Barrin92 5y ago
I find it pretty crazy that as far as hardware requirements go apparently the minimum is a 7th generation intel chip. Unsurprisingly only slightly more than 40% of enterprise machines meet that requirement[1], this pretty much excludes any machine pre 2018, no? Very weird. [1]https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-11-half-of-enterprise-workstations-dont-meet-the-new-system-requirements-says-survey/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-11-half-of-enterprise-...
- joconde 5y ago
  8th generation :) I started their "PC health app" today and got told my Core i7 7700HQ is too old.
  - noxer 5y ago
    It doesn't matter what it says. It only checks for OEM requirements and thus only lists new CPUs that are still being produced/shipped in new hardware. If you look at the same requirements for Windows 10 21H1 [1] it will not list old CPUs even if they where listed for older versions of win 10 and have no problem running 21H1. [1]https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/supported/windows-10-21h1-supported-intel-processors https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/min... Fact is the current version of win 11 runs on any 64-bit CPU you can find I tested it on a T7500 from the early 2006. Its maxed out for 30 seconds after booting but other than that no problem running the OS.
    - joconde 5y ago
      They did say that these older CPUs weren't entitled to Windows updates though (https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/28/22646035/microsoft-windows-11-iso-workaround-no-update-guarantee https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/28/22646035/microsoft-window...). This is probably worse than being denied the upgrade in the first place...
      - noxer 5y ago
        But its factually nonsense and in the end it does not matter what theverge say. What matters is the reality. The reality is you can run win11 on old CPUs. You can update win10 to win11. And you do receive updates. BUT if for some reason something is not compatible and it fails, MS like wont fix it if its related to old hardware. Also if new features are being added that do not work on old hardware then this may break the OS or certain parts and MS can point to the fact that you run unsupported hardware. That is how it always has been. You are on your own if you ignore recommendations but nothing is really denied. Skipping the CPU checks is one google search away for anyone who wants to.
marcooliv 5y ago
Seis são muito chato, jesus amado.
Animats 5y ago
“If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—forever.” - Orwell. That's Windows since Windows 7. Ads? "Telemetry"? A built-in browser? No.
- systemvoltage 5y ago
  What about Google insisting you sign in on their own browser with 80%+ market share?
  - tim333 5y ago
    You can at least uninstall that and use a different one.
  - DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
    Google has never, ever, required that I use Chrome to access any of their sites and services.
    - DaltonCoffee 5y ago
      Google Earth Studio is Chrome only
    - tomjen3 5y ago
      I can't use Google meet with Firefox.
      - anothernewdude 5y ago
        I can
        hiyer 5y ago
        Google meet works with Firefox, but the filters like blur background, etc don't.
sumthinprofound 5y ago
from the article > Local “offline” accounts require Windows 11 Pro. and still no tabbed Windows Explorer. zero interest in this I see no benefit.
- zepearl 5y ago
  Expanding: > The most significant change is the elimination of local or “offline” accounts within Windows 10 Home—a fact that we were told in July and appears still to be the case. At present, Windows 11 Home PCs must be set up and administered with a Microsoft account, though local accounts can also be added later for additional users. > To enable local accounts as part of the initial setup, you’ll need to install Windows 11 Pro, either via an in-place upgrade from Windows 10 or a clean installation. During the setup process, you’ll be prompted for your Microsoft account information. Simply click the “sign-in options” link instead. The next page will offer you the option to sign in with an offline account. Did I understand correctly: does this mean that I need to have a working Internet connection to install Win11 (non-"Pro"), hoping that my NIC works during the installation process?
  - kreeben 5y ago
    MS in 1995: wtf is "internet"? MS in 2021: wtf is "local"?
  - sumthinprofound 5y ago
    > Did I understand correctly: does this mean that I need to have a working Internet connection to install Win11 (non-"Pro"), hoping that my NIC works during the installation process? That is my read on it. The guidance to "click the sign in options...to sign in with an offline account" worked for me in Win10 Home, but apparently not for 11 Home version (without any yet to be revealed work arounds)
- moogly 5y ago
  For the tabbed file explorer, just use Directory Opus. It's way better in every way and you can customize it until the cows come home. Friends don't let friends use (File) Explorer. No offline accounts on the Home version is vile, however.
brink 5y ago
> Offline accounts are now a "pro" feature. > Switching default browsers is now more difficult. > Taskbar is now shoved to the center. Why? No reason other than to be aesthetically differentiable from Windows 10. Remember when things used to get better between versions? I do.
- em500 5y ago
  Sounds like Microsoft is turning Windows into ChromeOS. Now I actually like ChromeOS a lot. But I do wish we'd keep some actual choices, instead of the same thing with different skins.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
    I largely like ChromeOS as itself, but I wouldn't want it for a general purpose system; it works because it's a limited system
- kreeben 5y ago
  If you mean "every other version", then yes, I member. I think MS has shifted from that strategy into a new one, where we'll see improvements every fifth version or so. 20 years from now, we'll get "multiple displays works like a charm".
- nikanj 5y ago
  With Microsoft, they get better with every other version. Goes back at least to Windows 2000. Windows Me, Vista, 8 were monsters, 2000, XP, 7 and 10 were nice enough. Whatever comes after 11 should be good again
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- russli1993 5y ago
  plus so called team's "integration". Clearly a move to use the dominate position of windows in OS space, to push out competitors like Slack, Zoom, and all others in the communication space. > Offline account a pro feature: to sell Microsoft accounts, office 365 and onedrive > Switching default browsers more difficult: to sell Edge and Bing. > Taskbar is now in the center: to get people to click on icons such as Teams, Microsoft Search, and the new launcher which includes links to Microsoft services like office 365. All the changes above are not for the benefits of consumers or other business that rely on Windows OS, for example, app developers, partners etc. Microsoft would brand and market them for the benefits of consumers. But at their core, they are about serving Microsoft bottom line. To use the dominate of position of windows OS in the PC(desktop and laptop) market, to push other lines of business from Microsoft. Microsoft have to continue to grow their revenue to justify their market cap right? That is where Microsoft's core interest is and what fundamentally propel them to do. And it shows up in what consumers will end up with, and it's not surprising at all. All that marketing doesn't hide this fact. And Microsoft will do things slowly, like boiling frogs, slowly so people don't realize. Remember when Windows 10 was launching people expressed concerns about linking Microsoft account to windows and Microsoft replied offline account will always be here? Now they removed it from non-pro edition and calling it "improving our ability to deliver new features to consumers" or "bring consumers more value". Microsoft's strategy is get people to use Microsoft account, so people use other Microsoft services like onedrive and office, and have stronger ties with Microsoft. Now if you want a offline account, you have to fork more money, and a lot of laptop OEMs ship with non-pro version of windows because it's cheaper license. This will deter a lot of people, so people cave in and go with Microsoft's strategy. But in long run, Microsoft will make more money from people with Microsoft accounts than they lost from the cheaper windows non-pro license. The business executives and strategists have all this calculated.
RheingoldRiver 5y ago
All I'm hoping for at this point is that they switch course on this ridiculous taskbar thing. I want a vertical task bar on the left side of my rightmost monitor, and I can't actually imagine using a PC with anything else. Also, small taskbar buttons with text (my taskbar is about 250px wide so that I can read the names of all my multiple windows of each IDE/text editor/Firefox). This is such a huge impact on day-to-day usage of the OS by users, why would they constrain it?
- Pathogen-David 5y ago
  Yup, this is the main reason I won't be upgrading to Windows 11 anytime soon. I've never been a fan of the icons-only taskbar and have enabled text labels since Windows 7.
  - danielrpa 5y ago
    They got one of the worst things in ChromeOS and put it in Windows. I have to use ChromeOS for work and its poor taskbar slows me down every day. I won't be upgrading for this reason alone. This is not about being used to the old way and not wanting change, it's about not wanting to switch to something that is objectively worse and will make me less productive.
- thanatos519 5y ago
  I don't understand how it makes sense to bind the OS or GUI to desktop UI behaviour, but I've been a happy X11 user since 1994 so what do I know? I believe that they constrain it because they have no respect for their users.
  - qzw 5y ago
    My bold prediction: they’re making it worse so that they can fix it in a future update. Why? There are only so many ways to actually improve things all the time, and it gets harder the more mature the product is. But a sinusoidal pattern of regressions and then “improvements” can be sustained indefinitely. It’s like an AC current: the features are the oscillating electrons, and the bonuses/promotions are the load.
bserge 5y ago
"Windows 10 will be the last Windows, a continuously updated OS that you can rely on" "Uhh, turns out we can't make that much money off of it" "Windows 11 is the most exciting Windows OS yet!"
- donmcronald 5y ago
  Your Windows 11 PC will stop receiving security updates on XX date. For your safety and the safety of the global internet community, networking capabilities will be disabled on XX. Your PC will continue to operate normally. If you would like to continue to receive security updates, please buy a Windows 365 subscription before XX.
  - Jensson 5y ago
    I wonder when they do the "5 years of security patches" thing phones did. Not sure why people accept that for phones but not computers, maybe Microsoft and Apple will realise that this will work on computers too soon?
    - hello___world 5y ago
      I have a 2015 MacBook Pro which is going to be the oldest-supported model for macOS 12 Monterey, so Apple seems to be supporting computers for ~7 years.
      - shaoonb 5y ago
        macOS 11 still gets another two years of security updates though.
        howinteresting 5y ago
        Apple is famous for not patching every security vulnerability on older versions. https://twitter.com/grahamgilbert/status/1386862102942339073?s=19 https://twitter.com/grahamgilbert/status/1386862102942339073... is a public example, and I'm aware of non-public information regarding this as well.
kreeben 5y ago
"Windows 11 comes with tight Teams integration." Coooooooolsies
65 5y ago
I don't understand why Microsoft's developer products (like VS Code and Github) are really great, but their consumer products just suck.
- Yuioup 5y ago
  Microsoft bought GitHub. It was already tremendously successful.
  - flyinglizard 5y ago
    It keeps prospering under them. Imagine Oracle buying it or something like that.
    - DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
      “Oracle GitHub is being renamed to Oracle JavaZone(TM) to harmonise Oracle’s developer story under the Java(TM) brand.”
      - skeeter2020 5y ago
        "Your JavaZone(tm) account will remain free for individual, non-profit use; all other account owners will be contacted but not until some future date after we trick you into visiting the site and demand punative licensing fees under threat of legal action"
        DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
        "By uploading computer program code to Oracle's servers, you agree to grant Oracle an unlimited, irrevocable, transferrable license to..."
    - vbezhenar 5y ago
      Oracle bought Java and Java is pretty good under its patronage. Better than Sun, at least in last years. Oracle provides RHEL build and it's pretty good. No CentOS drama, it's free and just works. I think that Oracle can execute well.
sigzero 5y ago
"While Windows 11 tolerates local offline accounts, expect to see numerous little passive-aggressive nags here and there to “change to a Microsoft [or “online”] account.” I hate that with Windows 10. Give me a break M$.
- peakaboo 5y ago
  Tolerates? Tolerates?? That attitude is exactly why I'm on Linux since 8 years back. I don't accept Microsoft telling me what my computer will do.
peakaboo 5y ago
Windows users are quite slow to realize that their operating system is a weapon, and the users are the target.
fleddr 5y ago
Microsoft just doesn't get it. Windows is a fundamentally mediocre OS that is made great by means of its wide compatibility with software and hardware. It's not sexy but it kind of works. Then they figured we now live in a mobile/touch world and went in that direction. But hardly anybody has a mobile Windows device, so it misses the target. To this day, store apps look like they're made for phones. Windows used to be a system where you had the feeling its yours. General purpose computing. Do whatever you want. Increasingly, it feels like some hybrid cloud OS, where gradually you give up user control. Windows 8, a UI clusterfuck, introduced a new design language. That was 2012. Almost a decade later, and not even in Windows 11, is the UI consistent. It's a facade. Why does it take a decade to skin a OS? Windows 11 removes customization options whilst that is exactly what Windows is about. Too many developers were switching to Mac, so now Linux is integrated. Not in itself a bad thing, don't get me wrong. It seems they're running in every direction at once and just give up on each direction halfway through.
- vbezhenar 5y ago
  Microsoft did not release anything worthy since Windows 2000. All their features were not needed. I'd easily pay $500/year for Windows 2000, just as it was, with support for modern hardware and other things needed to survive in modern Internet. Now I'm not talking about internals. I'm sure that kernel was progressing all those years, for example. I'm talking about user-visible stuff. Windows XP cartoon UI: terrible. Windows 10 UI: terrible. Good old Windows 2000 UI was just better in every way. Windows shell? It was good in Windows 2000. Start was good. May be fast search would be a worthy feature to add, but that's about it. They redesign it every year, but it's not getting better. Windows explorer? It was good in Windows 2000. They move buttons around, but that's not needed. Control panel is 100x better than this settings nightmare UI. They invent new UI frameworks every few years. That's not needed. WinAPI is good enough. It won't happen. But they actually built a perfect OS and lost it. Forever, as corporations can't admit their mistakes. They could have improved upon it all this time, instead of trying to replace it. With Nadella Microsoft is going downhill. Yes, they're doing things that looks interesting. Like integrating VM with Linux. That's cool. But they kind of gave up. Back in the time, they were actually pushing their own agenda. They had their own tech. Now they gave up and adapt old proven tech. Good for customers, but it's path to the end. If someone learned WSL, it's just one step to true Linux, why pay for Windows at all. Ditto about Edge. They built their own browser engine. How cool is that? Very few corporations were able to do so. And they gave up. Microsoft lost his teethes. May be they just don't care about desktop anymore. Well, I don't care about Microsoft anymore.
DavidVoid 5y ago
Overall I do really like the new UI, but the lack of taskbar customizability does indeed suck (I used to have it at the top, but now that I'm forced to have it at the bottom I've set it to auto-hide). The Settings menu on the other hand is leaps and bounds better than the absolute garbage that is the Windows 10 Settings menu (except for the default app mess but hopefully they'll improve that).
- DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
  I’m blocking the Windows 11 update via group policy[1] until the Taskbar and Start Menu are usable. I run software that is unusable without it being 1-taskbar-button-per-window. Forcing us to use 1-button-per-EXE with a slow-and-fiddly window sub-menu is so very user-hostile. I suspect the decision to force single large buttons was to prompt third-party developers to have single-window-apps just like smartphones and tablets - which is just so wrong on so many levels. Being dicks about MSAs in Home SKUs is also inexplicable. Do they really expect people will be okay with being stuck and unable to install Windows without a working internet connection? What if a computer has a modern NIC that Windows doesn’t have in-box drivers for? This. Is. Insane. [1] Yes, I run an AD domain for my house.
  - moogly 5y ago
    Same, though I don't run an AD domain (you can still use gpedit.msc on a local machine). I'm also considering turning off my TPM in case Microsoft screws up the roll-out, intentionally or not.
- ChickeNES 5y ago
  At least they seem to have fixed auto-hide on multiple monitors, but I still have to turn it back on half the time I wake my computer from sleep.
- prirai 5y ago
  Why suffer winblows 11 when you can do the same with plasma DE
everyone 5y ago
Every giant tech company seems to do this to some extent. I call it 'genetic drift' as it's akin to that phenomenon in nature. When a company gets so big that it will keep existing and being profitable no matter what decisions they make, then, they make random decisions, there's no selection pressure anymore.
dleslie 5y ago
For kicks I installed Works 9.0 yesterday; on my bleeding edge beast of a gaming machine. _Holy hell_ is it fast _and capable_. For comparison, I popped open the relevant Office 365 apps and every one of them was noticeably slower to load, and slower to function. Even text rendering of input seemed to have a bit of a delay. I can only imagine a world where Windows 2000 simply kept receiving security and driver updates. sigh
- huuuz 5y ago
  word and excel are slower when compared to the Google workspace counterparts. There's a very noticeable lag when typing. They should be ashamed of themselves.
- MrBuddyCasino 5y ago
  > I can only imagine a world where Windows 2000 simply kept receiving security and driver updates. sigh Everyone wants this, funny how Big Corp works. Its supposed to be giving the consumer what he wants. Economists can't comprehend.
  - hyperman1 5y ago
    There is something important hiding in your comment. In a fee market, someone would stand up and provide a modern fork of windows 2000. As this is not happening, the OS market is not free. I suppose it's an oligopoly or monopoly at this point. So what went wrong? Complicated question, I see multiple partial answers. * part of governement's job is safeguarding and restoring free markets. Clearly they failed here. * part of it is a natural monopoly. No source code means a lot harder support. * part of it is the copyright monopoly, making a free market basically illegal. There must be some mechanism for protecting creators, but the balance is lost if copyright forbids, e.g. duplication of goods no longer sold * part of it is a failure in standardisation. POSIX is hopelessly incomplete for a modern os, and microsoft ignored it in favor of its own API's (minus some subsystem lip qervice). * part of it is also the 'free' culture (beer, not speach). Someone has to pay for development, and gratis software, os delivered with PC, and piracy make it very hard to make money, especially for a consumer OS. Linux has a perpetual shoe string budget. BEOS had a good try with a better product but ultimately failed. OSX is an interesting case study, but it's not clear what to learn from it. There are probably more answers.
everyone 5y ago
Win 10 LTSB (the only good version of windows atm anyway) will be supported for a good few more years. Presumably by its EOL there will be a decent win 11 LTSB available to switch to. I have to use Windows for my job (game dev) . I dont understand how anyone can stomach non LTSB windows. Also, just go ahead and pirate it! MS have given us no other choice.
- prosody 5y ago
  I'm switching to 10 LTSC (nb they renamed LTSB) 1809 this weekend to get ahead of the curve. Supported until January 2029. 11 came out six years after 10, so decent odds this can tide me over until 12. Unfortunately they reduced their support commitment for the upcoming 10 LTSC 21H2 to five years from release, so the older version is the best you can do. Also FWIW, Microsoft does kind of give you a choice to obtain 10 LTSC legitimately, it's just a pain in the ass since it's very deliberately not intended for consumers. Described here: https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/2167558-explicit-instructions-for-purchasing-a-windows-10-ltsc-license https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/2167558-explicit-inst... I actually did it (using CDW, total cost US$319.15), in part because I'm a goody-goody I guess and in part because even if you can trust the ISO you got is good by verifying its checksum, god knows what the tool you use to bypass the copyright enforcement mechanism does. If anyone reading this comment is interested in buying it, you should probably also know that the Open License volume purchasing program that the linked units are being sold under is getting discontinued in January 2022, so might want to decide whether to bite the bullet soon.
  - everyone 5y ago
    I dont really consider giving money to MS a 'goody goody' thing to do. The crack is super simple, you install windows so it uses a key management server for its DRM. The crack just fakes a KMS server and tells windows "yep yer good, you have a license." You have to do it every 6 months or something. I think of pirate stuff like open source software. I'm not personally going to go through every download with a fine tooth comb looking for malware. But other members of the community will do that. I trust the pirate community way more than I'd trust any corp. In fact even if I buy something, I like to download and actually use the pirate version, cus often-times the cracker removes the spyware and shit that's included in the official release.
booleandilemma 5y ago
With all of these new features Microsoft continues to try to usher in the year of the Linux desktop.
arepublicadoceu 5y ago
I feel like local accounts on windows is just like local vaults on 1Password. They kind of support it but will keep annoying and bullying the hell out of you to move to the cloud for “your own benefit”. Until you either leave or submit to their will.
- zamadatix 5y ago
  Only reason I have my local account linked to my Microsoft account is I actually use Xbox Live on Windows. Other than that the only time I got asked about it was during install.
  - Scramblejams 5y ago
    You linked it, that’s why you’re not hearing about it. I never link the account and I keep hearing about it…
    - zamadatix 5y ago
      The only time you hear about it to link it is if you use cloud services like the one I described. Of course you're going to be bothered to log into cloud services if you keep opening them but don't sign in - stop trying to open them? As far as the local account itself it's still just a local account, I didn't migrate it to a cloud synced account only enabled my cloud account for cloud apps I use only.
anothernewdude 5y ago
The best OS and UI upgrade is the one you're already comfortable using.
- cyber_kinetist 5y ago
  Sucks that Windows 7 is out of support now (and some games don’t work) and am forced to use Windows 10. If I could go back I would do so in a heartbeat. On the Linux side I have i3 with XFCE on it and haven’t changed it for over a year. And it will probably stay that way (until Wayland supports Nvidia GPUs and becomes good enough, which will probably take a lot of time)
webwielder2 5y ago
Why is Microsoft so bad at software for microcomputers? They are truly a testament to the power of compatibility and enterprise sales.
ilaksh 5y ago
I have the Insider Beta or whatever enabled and the update I installed last night seemed to cause some kind of severe memory leak. Chrome kept freezing up and was generally unresponsive. Something related to the taskbar or OS kept restarting, which I assume was because of an out-of-memory issue. I am wondering if it's a bug or if somehow my Omen laptop doesn't meet the requirements and they just sent me the update anyway. But as it is I think I absolutely have to revert to a previous version.
_Understated_ 5y ago
I'm convinced that this is all a result of Microsoft being a rudderless ship. That and their unkillable telemetry telling them shit like "n% of people spend x% more time in Settings than Control Panel" so that means that Settings must be better. Right? Cool, let's take 5 years to slowly destroy the control panel. Many things I've read over the last few years about Microsoft is that it's utterly disfunctional. It's become so big that it's impossible to achieve any kind of coherence. As another comment pointed out: they've had 10 years to make the UI all look the same and still haven't achieved it! A single dev could have redesigned the whole thing in a couple of years at most so it can't be a technical issue: it points to them either having incompetent management or just being too damn big to actually manage! Now I've worked mainly for large corporates over the years and they're never a single entity: they're always made up of multiple internal entities whether officially or unofficially. And they all have their own goals so steering a company as a whole is not an easy task but Microsoft are a fucking mess and thanks to all this forced shit, Windows 10 will be the final version of Windows for me. So what does that mean? It means that Linux has 4 years to get its act together before I switch to it permanently, come hell or high water. Coz right now, Linux is not a replacement for Windows for a great many people. Myself included. Even though I've tried multiple times with Fedora, Pop_OS and Ubuntu, shit always goes wrong. Always: dodgy sound issues, Nvidia drivers issues, scaling issues etc... stuff I don't get with Windows! Ever.
- carlhjerpe 5y ago
  With open source software you have to select the right hardware. If you want things to keep working I would recommend NixOS (if you're comfortable writing code and learning a new language). If things break you'll roll back your entire system (except /home essentially). I was on manjaro, but my move to NixOS made me stay Linux (still have 2 gpus to GPU passthough to a Windows VM though)
- tdsamardzhiev 5y ago
  Trying (and failing miserably) to kill Control Panel blows my mind every time. There's not a single thing that Settings improves upon. Even its "touch-friendliness" is a direct result of omitting important features.
- 5y ago
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
satysin 5y ago
I have been running Windows 11 on a second machine since the preview came out. It is an old Dell Latitude from 2011 or so. A 3rd generation Intel i5 CPU, 8GB RAM and a Samsung 250GB SATA SSD. It runs Windows 11 very well. It ran Windows 10 very well just for reference. I have no complaints about the stability of Windows. Windows 10 had always been very stable and reliable and Windows 11 continues that. At least during the previews. There are some nice new features such as the new 'windows snapping' UI when you hover over the maximise button however this hardly seems worthwhile of revving Windows up from 10 to 11. There are also a lot of frustrating changes. Take for example the new context menus. For many years people have made fun of the inconsistencies in Windows context menus. It isn't a big deal in reality but it became a bit of a meme that Microsoft were incapable of solving it. So is this solved in Windows 11? No. If anything it is worse because rather than solving the inconsistencies they hide it behind yet another context menu design. For example if you right click on a zip file because you want to access 7-Zip or WinRAR's context menu options you no longer get them. You get this new context menu with a "show more options" item at the bottom. Select this and then you get the old context menu that contains the application extended options for 7-Zip, etc. On the surface it looks cleaned up but in reality they just made it worse by covering it up and adding another step to the users workflow. They did some work on a new Settings app which is nice but again many options just throw you back into old properties windows for advanced settings such as some keyboard and mouse options, etc. Sure not a big deal as you hardly ever need to go there but that is true of most settings so why bother at all. I hate this "let's improve 60% of things but leave that old 40% as it is because it's just too much work now" attitude Microsoft has had with regards to consistency since the release of Windows XP. By far the worst aspect is the removal of so many customisation options. The new taskbar is trash. As is the new Start Menu. Sure you can left justify the icons but you can't do much else with the taskbar/dock. Use multiple monitors? Sorry you can only see the date and time on your main monitor for some reason. Want to put the taskbar on the left side of your screen rather than along the bottom? No sorry that is no longer supported. Want to drag and drop a file onto an app icon? Hah! No sorry that 25+ year long UX doesn't work with the new taskbar. Overall Windows 11 certainly feels like a step backwards for Windows as a whole. It seems Microsoft just don't know what they want from Windows so just slap a new coat of paint on it and call it new while they struggle to see where it fits moving forward. To me it isn't backwards compatibility or native (Win32 eek!) applications that keep business on Windows but remote management. Windows may be kinda crappy from a UX perspective but it is stable and easier to manage on scale than anything else out there, in a business setting anyway. For education Chromebook's and iPad's work great due to the hub and spoke nature of schools and IT management, which is why we have seen those devices eat away at Microsoft's market there. I feel the fact that Windows 11 will release next week with little interest shows how it doesn't really matter anymore. I suspect Apple's October update to macOS with the release of Monterey will receive just as much, if not more, press and praise and that happens every year like clock work. Anyway I think I have written enough. I hadn't planned on this mini-essay when I opened this thread so I guess congratulations and thanks if you made it this far on a Saturday evening.
simonblack 5y ago
Windows has been on the wrong path since Win 7. I keep a 10-year-old ultrabook with Win 7 for the very rare occasions that I need to run some form of Windows app.
Havoc 5y ago
Netflix on Linux at 1080p really needs to happen ASAP so that I can ditch windows. Gaming is rapidly improving and browser run fine on nix…so literally just stupid drm left. Most people don’t really use much else these days.
- hammyhavoc 5y ago
  Don't tell us, tell Netflix.
iJohnDoe 5y ago
Microsoft, Apple, And Google are perfectly timed right now for a competitor take over. They have been for a couple years. Microsoft’s constant privacy violations with Windows 10 telemetry, their user hostile subscription pricing model on everything, horrible security vulnerabilities (and hostile bug bounty programs). Apple’s pricing, security holes, (and hostile bug bounties program), and anti-developer activities, alignment with China, running the company like a CFO owns it. Google’s complete corruption on account take downs, horrible search results (yes, I want that keyword I typed in to be included!), and privacy violations. Why hasn’t all the money being thrown around the last handful of years been used to unseat these companies?
ObamaBinSpying 5y ago
Windows 2000 was the best version of Windows ever. Windows XP and above only decreased value for the consumer... Windows-10 and 11 being exponentially worst.
aaron695 5y ago
> Cons - The TPM issue Wow, just wow, Microsoft is willing to put sales on the line for TPM, improving security. A shift for consumers to try and back down state based hacking. But now we only care if Windows looks pretty. And we are not going to upgrade a fine computer just for security. NSA, NSA, NSA, oorah. Next week Twitter will tell them Microsoft doesn't care about security and down that bandwagon we will go. People talk about Weaponized Autism, but really it's just Weaponized Bikeshedding
syspec 5y ago
A Windows 11 review without any comparison macOS?
alexeiz 5y ago
It's not possible to disable the antivirus on Windows 11. It always resurrects itself. It's annoying AF. I'm staying with Windows 10 because Windows 11 takes away user control over the OS.

151 points by dantondwa 5y ago

The problem is that the money Microsoft makes from telemetry and shunting ads in the star menu FAR outweighs any financial pressure on them to make a decent OS. If that source of income was somehow shunted then they would actually go back to making something functional.

arepublicadoceu 5y ago

My plan is to stick to windows 10 until full nvidia support for wayland arrive. Hopefully, 5 years is enough as things started to get better lately.

ginko 5y ago
Or you could just buy an AMD GPU.
- arepublicadoceu 5y ago
  Or I can just not generate e-waste by using my perfectly capable device until the end of its life.
  - tjoff 5y ago
    Selling is an option, or using it for passthrough.
    - arepublicadoceu 5y ago
      It’s a laptop. I’m not interested in selling it as it’s a great laptop and works fine for my needs. I’m a patient men and I can wait 5 years easily for proper wayland support. If it doesn’t come, then I think about selling it. I’ve tried gpu pass through it was more annoying then installing arch to set it up. And made me realize that my dGPU is wired to my HDMI so I can’t use my hdmi while my dGPU is on my virtual machine. Anyway, I’m not complaining about windows 10, I quite like it as everything works out of the box.
  - wtallis 5y ago
    It sounds like it's pretty far from "perfectly" capable according to your needs.
    - arepublicadoceu 5y ago
      How exactly do you know what my needs are? I don’t “need” to run Linux on it for the next 5 years as windows 10 will continue to be supported.
      - wtallis 5y ago
        I was assuming that if you actually knew enough about Linux to know that your use cases require full Wayland support and cannot be satisfied by X11, then you are probably already using Linux to some extent. It didn't seem realistic that you could have come to such a conclusion about Wayland if using Linux at all is merely a distant hypothetical to you.
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  Buying a GPU in 2021 is tricky for most people.
smoldesu 5y ago
I've got a 1050ti that handles x11 and Wayland perfectly fine. I haven't put Wayland through it's paces with any games, but I've heard that the Nvidia 470.xx updates added in dramatically better xWayland support.
chungy 5y ago
You don't need to wait any longer. NVIDIA updated their driver for full Wayland support a few months ago.
- zokier 5y ago
  Sounds pretty rough still https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NVIDIA-GBM-Works-With-Sway https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NVIDIA-G... Unless I'm misreading that completely its saying that Sway support is not yet even in beta.
mshroyer 5y ago
Even though my new Framework laptop supports Wayland, unfortunately I'll probably end up installing Windows on it. And largely because of the display manager. Wayland itself works great on Ubuntu 21.04. But the screen resolution means I must run at a fractional resolution for it to be usable. And many of my apps require special flags to work directly with Wayland (Chrome and Electron apps), some exhibit bugs when running under Wayland (VS Code), and some don't directly support Wayland at all yet (IntelliJ IDEA)—meaning they have to run under X11 compatibility and suffer from blurry text at fractional scales: https://intellij-support.jetbrains.com/hc/en-us/articles/4403794663570 https://intellij-support.jetbrains.com/hc/en-us/articles/440... I can still run Xorg of course, with the old requisite tweaks to prevent screen tearing on Intel graphics. But directly comparing the performance of Wayland and Xorg on the same machine seems night and day to me (in Wayland's favor, at least under fractional scaling), so I'll likely resort to Windows 10 until the app ecosystem catches up to Wayland. (And that makes me sad: I actually prefer Linux for several non-ideological reasons, ranging from ZFS to not relying on unstable registry hacks to invert my mouse's scroll wheel.)

Barrin92 5y ago

I find it pretty crazy that as far as hardware requirements go apparently the minimum is a 7th generation intel chip. Unsurprisingly only slightly more than 40% of enterprise machines meet that requirement[1], this pretty much excludes any machine pre 2018, no? Very weird. [1]https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-11-half-of-enterprise-workstations-dont-meet-the-new-system-requirements-says-survey/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-11-half-of-enterprise-...

joconde 5y ago
8th generation :) I started their "PC health app" today and got told my Core i7 7700HQ is too old.
- noxer 5y ago
  It doesn't matter what it says. It only checks for OEM requirements and thus only lists new CPUs that are still being produced/shipped in new hardware. If you look at the same requirements for Windows 10 21H1 [1] it will not list old CPUs even if they where listed for older versions of win 10 and have no problem running 21H1. [1]https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/minimum/supported/windows-10-21h1-supported-intel-processors https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/min... Fact is the current version of win 11 runs on any 64-bit CPU you can find I tested it on a T7500 from the early 2006. Its maxed out for 30 seconds after booting but other than that no problem running the OS.
  - joconde 5y ago
    They did say that these older CPUs weren't entitled to Windows updates though (https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/28/22646035/microsoft-windows-11-iso-workaround-no-update-guarantee https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/28/22646035/microsoft-window...). This is probably worse than being denied the upgrade in the first place...
    - noxer 5y ago
      But its factually nonsense and in the end it does not matter what theverge say. What matters is the reality. The reality is you can run win11 on old CPUs. You can update win10 to win11. And you do receive updates. BUT if for some reason something is not compatible and it fails, MS like wont fix it if its related to old hardware. Also if new features are being added that do not work on old hardware then this may break the OS or certain parts and MS can point to the fact that you run unsupported hardware. That is how it always has been. You are on your own if you ignore recommendations but nothing is really denied. Skipping the CPU checks is one google search away for anyone who wants to.

marcooliv 5y ago

Seis são muito chato, jesus amado.

Animats 5y ago

“If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—forever.” - Orwell. That's Windows since Windows 7. Ads? "Telemetry"? A built-in browser? No.

systemvoltage 5y ago
What about Google insisting you sign in on their own browser with 80%+ market share?
- tim333 5y ago
  You can at least uninstall that and use a different one.
- DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
  Google has never, ever, required that I use Chrome to access any of their sites and services.
  - DaltonCoffee 5y ago
    Google Earth Studio is Chrome only
  - tomjen3 5y ago
    I can't use Google meet with Firefox.
    - anothernewdude 5y ago
      I can
      - hiyer 5y ago
        Google meet works with Firefox, but the filters like blur background, etc don't.

sumthinprofound 5y ago

from the article > Local “offline” accounts require Windows 11 Pro. and still no tabbed Windows Explorer. zero interest in this I see no benefit.

zepearl 5y ago
Expanding: > The most significant change is the elimination of local or “offline” accounts within Windows 10 Home—a fact that we were told in July and appears still to be the case. At present, Windows 11 Home PCs must be set up and administered with a Microsoft account, though local accounts can also be added later for additional users. > To enable local accounts as part of the initial setup, you’ll need to install Windows 11 Pro, either via an in-place upgrade from Windows 10 or a clean installation. During the setup process, you’ll be prompted for your Microsoft account information. Simply click the “sign-in options” link instead. The next page will offer you the option to sign in with an offline account. Did I understand correctly: does this mean that I need to have a working Internet connection to install Win11 (non-"Pro"), hoping that my NIC works during the installation process?
- kreeben 5y ago
  MS in 1995: wtf is "internet"? MS in 2021: wtf is "local"?
- sumthinprofound 5y ago
  > Did I understand correctly: does this mean that I need to have a working Internet connection to install Win11 (non-"Pro"), hoping that my NIC works during the installation process? That is my read on it. The guidance to "click the sign in options...to sign in with an offline account" worked for me in Win10 Home, but apparently not for 11 Home version (without any yet to be revealed work arounds)
moogly 5y ago
For the tabbed file explorer, just use Directory Opus. It's way better in every way and you can customize it until the cows come home. Friends don't let friends use (File) Explorer. No offline accounts on the Home version is vile, however.

brink 5y ago

> Offline accounts are now a "pro" feature. > Switching default browsers is now more difficult. > Taskbar is now shoved to the center. Why? No reason other than to be aesthetically differentiable from Windows 10. Remember when things used to get better between versions? I do.

em500 5y ago
Sounds like Microsoft is turning Windows into ChromeOS. Now I actually like ChromeOS a lot. But I do wish we'd keep some actual choices, instead of the same thing with different skins.
- yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
  I largely like ChromeOS as itself, but I wouldn't want it for a general purpose system; it works because it's a limited system
kreeben 5y ago
If you mean "every other version", then yes, I member. I think MS has shifted from that strategy into a new one, where we'll see improvements every fifth version or so. 20 years from now, we'll get "multiple displays works like a charm".
nikanj 5y ago
With Microsoft, they get better with every other version. Goes back at least to Windows 2000. Windows Me, Vista, 8 were monsters, 2000, XP, 7 and 10 were nice enough. Whatever comes after 11 should be good again
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
russli1993 5y ago
plus so called team's "integration". Clearly a move to use the dominate position of windows in OS space, to push out competitors like Slack, Zoom, and all others in the communication space. > Offline account a pro feature: to sell Microsoft accounts, office 365 and onedrive > Switching default browsers more difficult: to sell Edge and Bing. > Taskbar is now in the center: to get people to click on icons such as Teams, Microsoft Search, and the new launcher which includes links to Microsoft services like office 365. All the changes above are not for the benefits of consumers or other business that rely on Windows OS, for example, app developers, partners etc. Microsoft would brand and market them for the benefits of consumers. But at their core, they are about serving Microsoft bottom line. To use the dominate of position of windows OS in the PC(desktop and laptop) market, to push other lines of business from Microsoft. Microsoft have to continue to grow their revenue to justify their market cap right? That is where Microsoft's core interest is and what fundamentally propel them to do. And it shows up in what consumers will end up with, and it's not surprising at all. All that marketing doesn't hide this fact. And Microsoft will do things slowly, like boiling frogs, slowly so people don't realize. Remember when Windows 10 was launching people expressed concerns about linking Microsoft account to windows and Microsoft replied offline account will always be here? Now they removed it from non-pro edition and calling it "improving our ability to deliver new features to consumers" or "bring consumers more value". Microsoft's strategy is get people to use Microsoft account, so people use other Microsoft services like onedrive and office, and have stronger ties with Microsoft. Now if you want a offline account, you have to fork more money, and a lot of laptop OEMs ship with non-pro version of windows because it's cheaper license. This will deter a lot of people, so people cave in and go with Microsoft's strategy. But in long run, Microsoft will make more money from people with Microsoft accounts than they lost from the cheaper windows non-pro license. The business executives and strategists have all this calculated.

RheingoldRiver 5y ago

All I'm hoping for at this point is that they switch course on this ridiculous taskbar thing. I want a vertical task bar on the left side of my rightmost monitor, and I can't actually imagine using a PC with anything else. Also, small taskbar buttons with text (my taskbar is about 250px wide so that I can read the names of all my multiple windows of each IDE/text editor/Firefox). This is such a huge impact on day-to-day usage of the OS by users, why would they constrain it?

Pathogen-David 5y ago
Yup, this is the main reason I won't be upgrading to Windows 11 anytime soon. I've never been a fan of the icons-only taskbar and have enabled text labels since Windows 7.
- danielrpa 5y ago
  They got one of the worst things in ChromeOS and put it in Windows. I have to use ChromeOS for work and its poor taskbar slows me down every day. I won't be upgrading for this reason alone. This is not about being used to the old way and not wanting change, it's about not wanting to switch to something that is objectively worse and will make me less productive.
thanatos519 5y ago
I don't understand how it makes sense to bind the OS or GUI to desktop UI behaviour, but I've been a happy X11 user since 1994 so what do I know? I believe that they constrain it because they have no respect for their users.
- qzw 5y ago
  My bold prediction: they’re making it worse so that they can fix it in a future update. Why? There are only so many ways to actually improve things all the time, and it gets harder the more mature the product is. But a sinusoidal pattern of regressions and then “improvements” can be sustained indefinitely. It’s like an AC current: the features are the oscillating electrons, and the bonuses/promotions are the load.

bserge 5y ago

"Windows 10 will be the last Windows, a continuously updated OS that you can rely on" "Uhh, turns out we can't make that much money off of it" "Windows 11 is the most exciting Windows OS yet!"

donmcronald 5y ago
Your Windows 11 PC will stop receiving security updates on XX date. For your safety and the safety of the global internet community, networking capabilities will be disabled on XX. Your PC will continue to operate normally. If you would like to continue to receive security updates, please buy a Windows 365 subscription before XX.
- Jensson 5y ago
  I wonder when they do the "5 years of security patches" thing phones did. Not sure why people accept that for phones but not computers, maybe Microsoft and Apple will realise that this will work on computers too soon?
  - hello___world 5y ago
    I have a 2015 MacBook Pro which is going to be the oldest-supported model for macOS 12 Monterey, so Apple seems to be supporting computers for ~7 years.
    - shaoonb 5y ago
      macOS 11 still gets another two years of security updates though.
      - howinteresting 5y ago
        Apple is famous for not patching every security vulnerability on older versions. https://twitter.com/grahamgilbert/status/1386862102942339073?s=19 https://twitter.com/grahamgilbert/status/1386862102942339073... is a public example, and I'm aware of non-public information regarding this as well.

kreeben 5y ago

"Windows 11 comes with tight Teams integration." Coooooooolsies

65 5y ago

I don't understand why Microsoft's developer products (like VS Code and Github) are really great, but their consumer products just suck.

Yuioup 5y ago
Microsoft bought GitHub. It was already tremendously successful.
- flyinglizard 5y ago
  It keeps prospering under them. Imagine Oracle buying it or something like that.
  - DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
    “Oracle GitHub is being renamed to Oracle JavaZone(TM) to harmonise Oracle’s developer story under the Java(TM) brand.”
    - skeeter2020 5y ago
      "Your JavaZone(tm) account will remain free for individual, non-profit use; all other account owners will be contacted but not until some future date after we trick you into visiting the site and demand punative licensing fees under threat of legal action"
      - DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
        "By uploading computer program code to Oracle's servers, you agree to grant Oracle an unlimited, irrevocable, transferrable license to..."
  - vbezhenar 5y ago
    Oracle bought Java and Java is pretty good under its patronage. Better than Sun, at least in last years. Oracle provides RHEL build and it's pretty good. No CentOS drama, it's free and just works. I think that Oracle can execute well.

sigzero 5y ago

"While Windows 11 tolerates local offline accounts, expect to see numerous little passive-aggressive nags here and there to “change to a Microsoft [or “online”] account.” I hate that with Windows 10. Give me a break M$.

peakaboo 5y ago
Tolerates? Tolerates?? That attitude is exactly why I'm on Linux since 8 years back. I don't accept Microsoft telling me what my computer will do.

peakaboo 5y ago

Windows users are quite slow to realize that their operating system is a weapon, and the users are the target.

fleddr 5y ago

Microsoft just doesn't get it. Windows is a fundamentally mediocre OS that is made great by means of its wide compatibility with software and hardware. It's not sexy but it kind of works. Then they figured we now live in a mobile/touch world and went in that direction. But hardly anybody has a mobile Windows device, so it misses the target. To this day, store apps look like they're made for phones. Windows used to be a system where you had the feeling its yours. General purpose computing. Do whatever you want. Increasingly, it feels like some hybrid cloud OS, where gradually you give up user control. Windows 8, a UI clusterfuck, introduced a new design language. That was 2012. Almost a decade later, and not even in Windows 11, is the UI consistent. It's a facade. Why does it take a decade to skin a OS? Windows 11 removes customization options whilst that is exactly what Windows is about. Too many developers were switching to Mac, so now Linux is integrated. Not in itself a bad thing, don't get me wrong. It seems they're running in every direction at once and just give up on each direction halfway through.

vbezhenar 5y ago
Microsoft did not release anything worthy since Windows 2000. All their features were not needed. I'd easily pay $500/year for Windows 2000, just as it was, with support for modern hardware and other things needed to survive in modern Internet. Now I'm not talking about internals. I'm sure that kernel was progressing all those years, for example. I'm talking about user-visible stuff. Windows XP cartoon UI: terrible. Windows 10 UI: terrible. Good old Windows 2000 UI was just better in every way. Windows shell? It was good in Windows 2000. Start was good. May be fast search would be a worthy feature to add, but that's about it. They redesign it every year, but it's not getting better. Windows explorer? It was good in Windows 2000. They move buttons around, but that's not needed. Control panel is 100x better than this settings nightmare UI. They invent new UI frameworks every few years. That's not needed. WinAPI is good enough. It won't happen. But they actually built a perfect OS and lost it. Forever, as corporations can't admit their mistakes. They could have improved upon it all this time, instead of trying to replace it. With Nadella Microsoft is going downhill. Yes, they're doing things that looks interesting. Like integrating VM with Linux. That's cool. But they kind of gave up. Back in the time, they were actually pushing their own agenda. They had their own tech. Now they gave up and adapt old proven tech. Good for customers, but it's path to the end. If someone learned WSL, it's just one step to true Linux, why pay for Windows at all. Ditto about Edge. They built their own browser engine. How cool is that? Very few corporations were able to do so. And they gave up. Microsoft lost his teethes. May be they just don't care about desktop anymore. Well, I don't care about Microsoft anymore.

DavidVoid 5y ago

Overall I do really like the new UI, but the lack of taskbar customizability does indeed suck (I used to have it at the top, but now that I'm forced to have it at the bottom I've set it to auto-hide). The Settings menu on the other hand is leaps and bounds better than the absolute garbage that is the Windows 10 Settings menu (except for the default app mess but hopefully they'll improve that).

DaiPlusPlus 5y ago
I’m blocking the Windows 11 update via group policy[1] until the Taskbar and Start Menu are usable. I run software that is unusable without it being 1-taskbar-button-per-window. Forcing us to use 1-button-per-EXE with a slow-and-fiddly window sub-menu is so very user-hostile. I suspect the decision to force single large buttons was to prompt third-party developers to have single-window-apps just like smartphones and tablets - which is just so wrong on so many levels. Being dicks about MSAs in Home SKUs is also inexplicable. Do they really expect people will be okay with being stuck and unable to install Windows without a working internet connection? What if a computer has a modern NIC that Windows doesn’t have in-box drivers for? This. Is. Insane. [1] Yes, I run an AD domain for my house.
- moogly 5y ago
  Same, though I don't run an AD domain (you can still use gpedit.msc on a local machine). I'm also considering turning off my TPM in case Microsoft screws up the roll-out, intentionally or not.
ChickeNES 5y ago
At least they seem to have fixed auto-hide on multiple monitors, but I still have to turn it back on half the time I wake my computer from sleep.
prirai 5y ago
Why suffer winblows 11 when you can do the same with plasma DE

everyone 5y ago

Every giant tech company seems to do this to some extent. I call it 'genetic drift' as it's akin to that phenomenon in nature. When a company gets so big that it will keep existing and being profitable no matter what decisions they make, then, they make random decisions, there's no selection pressure anymore.

dleslie 5y ago

For kicks I installed Works 9.0 yesterday; on my bleeding edge beast of a gaming machine. _Holy hell_ is it fast _and capable_. For comparison, I popped open the relevant Office 365 apps and every one of them was noticeably slower to load, and slower to function. Even text rendering of input seemed to have a bit of a delay. I can only imagine a world where Windows 2000 simply kept receiving security and driver updates. sigh

huuuz 5y ago
word and excel are slower when compared to the Google workspace counterparts. There's a very noticeable lag when typing. They should be ashamed of themselves.
MrBuddyCasino 5y ago
> I can only imagine a world where Windows 2000 simply kept receiving security and driver updates. sigh Everyone wants this, funny how Big Corp works. Its supposed to be giving the consumer what he wants. Economists can't comprehend.
- hyperman1 5y ago
  There is something important hiding in your comment. In a fee market, someone would stand up and provide a modern fork of windows 2000. As this is not happening, the OS market is not free. I suppose it's an oligopoly or monopoly at this point. So what went wrong? Complicated question, I see multiple partial answers. * part of governement's job is safeguarding and restoring free markets. Clearly they failed here. * part of it is a natural monopoly. No source code means a lot harder support. * part of it is the copyright monopoly, making a free market basically illegal. There must be some mechanism for protecting creators, but the balance is lost if copyright forbids, e.g. duplication of goods no longer sold * part of it is a failure in standardisation. POSIX is hopelessly incomplete for a modern os, and microsoft ignored it in favor of its own API's (minus some subsystem lip qervice). * part of it is also the 'free' culture (beer, not speach). Someone has to pay for development, and gratis software, os delivered with PC, and piracy make it very hard to make money, especially for a consumer OS. Linux has a perpetual shoe string budget. BEOS had a good try with a better product but ultimately failed. OSX is an interesting case study, but it's not clear what to learn from it. There are probably more answers.

everyone 5y ago

Win 10 LTSB (the only good version of windows atm anyway) will be supported for a good few more years. Presumably by its EOL there will be a decent win 11 LTSB available to switch to. I have to use Windows for my job (game dev) . I dont understand how anyone can stomach non LTSB windows. Also, just go ahead and pirate it! MS have given us no other choice.

prosody 5y ago
I'm switching to 10 LTSC (nb they renamed LTSB) 1809 this weekend to get ahead of the curve. Supported until January 2029. 11 came out six years after 10, so decent odds this can tide me over until 12. Unfortunately they reduced their support commitment for the upcoming 10 LTSC 21H2 to five years from release, so the older version is the best you can do. Also FWIW, Microsoft does kind of give you a choice to obtain 10 LTSC legitimately, it's just a pain in the ass since it's very deliberately not intended for consumers. Described here: https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/2167558-explicit-instructions-for-purchasing-a-windows-10-ltsc-license https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/2167558-explicit-inst... I actually did it (using CDW, total cost US$319.15), in part because I'm a goody-goody I guess and in part because even if you can trust the ISO you got is good by verifying its checksum, god knows what the tool you use to bypass the copyright enforcement mechanism does. If anyone reading this comment is interested in buying it, you should probably also know that the Open License volume purchasing program that the linked units are being sold under is getting discontinued in January 2022, so might want to decide whether to bite the bullet soon.
- everyone 5y ago
  I dont really consider giving money to MS a 'goody goody' thing to do. The crack is super simple, you install windows so it uses a key management server for its DRM. The crack just fakes a KMS server and tells windows "yep yer good, you have a license." You have to do it every 6 months or something. I think of pirate stuff like open source software. I'm not personally going to go through every download with a fine tooth comb looking for malware. But other members of the community will do that. I trust the pirate community way more than I'd trust any corp. In fact even if I buy something, I like to download and actually use the pirate version, cus often-times the cracker removes the spyware and shit that's included in the official release.

booleandilemma 5y ago

With all of these new features Microsoft continues to try to usher in the year of the Linux desktop.

arepublicadoceu 5y ago

I feel like local accounts on windows is just like local vaults on 1Password. They kind of support it but will keep annoying and bullying the hell out of you to move to the cloud for “your own benefit”. Until you either leave or submit to their will.

zamadatix 5y ago
Only reason I have my local account linked to my Microsoft account is I actually use Xbox Live on Windows. Other than that the only time I got asked about it was during install.
- Scramblejams 5y ago
  You linked it, that’s why you’re not hearing about it. I never link the account and I keep hearing about it…
  - zamadatix 5y ago
    The only time you hear about it to link it is if you use cloud services like the one I described. Of course you're going to be bothered to log into cloud services if you keep opening them but don't sign in - stop trying to open them? As far as the local account itself it's still just a local account, I didn't migrate it to a cloud synced account only enabled my cloud account for cloud apps I use only.

anothernewdude 5y ago

The best OS and UI upgrade is the one you're already comfortable using.

cyber_kinetist 5y ago
Sucks that Windows 7 is out of support now (and some games don’t work) and am forced to use Windows 10. If I could go back I would do so in a heartbeat. On the Linux side I have i3 with XFCE on it and haven’t changed it for over a year. And it will probably stay that way (until Wayland supports Nvidia GPUs and becomes good enough, which will probably take a lot of time)

webwielder2 5y ago

Why is Microsoft so bad at software for microcomputers? They are truly a testament to the power of compatibility and enterprise sales.

ilaksh 5y ago

I have the Insider Beta or whatever enabled and the update I installed last night seemed to cause some kind of severe memory leak. Chrome kept freezing up and was generally unresponsive. Something related to the taskbar or OS kept restarting, which I assume was because of an out-of-memory issue. I am wondering if it's a bug or if somehow my Omen laptop doesn't meet the requirements and they just sent me the update anyway. But as it is I think I absolutely have to revert to a previous version.

_Understated_ 5y ago

I'm convinced that this is all a result of Microsoft being a rudderless ship. That and their unkillable telemetry telling them shit like "n% of people spend x% more time in Settings than Control Panel" so that means that Settings must be better. Right? Cool, let's take 5 years to slowly destroy the control panel. Many things I've read over the last few years about Microsoft is that it's utterly disfunctional. It's become so big that it's impossible to achieve any kind of coherence. As another comment pointed out: they've had 10 years to make the UI all look the same and still haven't achieved it! A single dev could have redesigned the whole thing in a couple of years at most so it can't be a technical issue: it points to them either having incompetent management or just being too damn big to actually manage! Now I've worked mainly for large corporates over the years and they're never a single entity: they're always made up of multiple internal entities whether officially or unofficially. And they all have their own goals so steering a company as a whole is not an easy task but Microsoft are a fucking mess and thanks to all this forced shit, Windows 10 will be the final version of Windows for me. So what does that mean? It means that Linux has 4 years to get its act together before I switch to it permanently, come hell or high water. Coz right now, Linux is not a replacement for Windows for a great many people. Myself included. Even though I've tried multiple times with Fedora, Pop_OS and Ubuntu, shit always goes wrong. Always: dodgy sound issues, Nvidia drivers issues, scaling issues etc... stuff I don't get with Windows! Ever.

carlhjerpe 5y ago
With open source software you have to select the right hardware. If you want things to keep working I would recommend NixOS (if you're comfortable writing code and learning a new language). If things break you'll roll back your entire system (except /home essentially). I was on manjaro, but my move to NixOS made me stay Linux (still have 2 gpus to GPU passthough to a Windows VM though)
tdsamardzhiev 5y ago
Trying (and failing miserably) to kill Control Panel blows my mind every time. There's not a single thing that Settings improves upon. Even its "touch-friendliness" is a direct result of omitting important features.
5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

satysin 5y ago

I have been running Windows 11 on a second machine since the preview came out. It is an old Dell Latitude from 2011 or so. A 3rd generation Intel i5 CPU, 8GB RAM and a Samsung 250GB SATA SSD. It runs Windows 11 very well. It ran Windows 10 very well just for reference. I have no complaints about the stability of Windows. Windows 10 had always been very stable and reliable and Windows 11 continues that. At least during the previews. There are some nice new features such as the new 'windows snapping' UI when you hover over the maximise button however this hardly seems worthwhile of revving Windows up from 10 to 11. There are also a lot of frustrating changes. Take for example the new context menus. For many years people have made fun of the inconsistencies in Windows context menus. It isn't a big deal in reality but it became a bit of a meme that Microsoft were incapable of solving it. So is this solved in Windows 11? No. If anything it is worse because rather than solving the inconsistencies they hide it behind yet another context menu design. For example if you right click on a zip file because you want to access 7-Zip or WinRAR's context menu options you no longer get them. You get this new context menu with a "show more options" item at the bottom. Select this and then you get the old context menu that contains the application extended options for 7-Zip, etc. On the surface it looks cleaned up but in reality they just made it worse by covering it up and adding another step to the users workflow. They did some work on a new Settings app which is nice but again many options just throw you back into old properties windows for advanced settings such as some keyboard and mouse options, etc. Sure not a big deal as you hardly ever need to go there but that is true of most settings so why bother at all. I hate this "let's improve 60% of things but leave that old 40% as it is because it's just too much work now" attitude Microsoft has had with regards to consistency since the release of Windows XP. By far the worst aspect is the removal of so many customisation options. The new taskbar is trash. As is the new Start Menu. Sure you can left justify the icons but you can't do much else with the taskbar/dock. Use multiple monitors? Sorry you can only see the date and time on your main monitor for some reason. Want to put the taskbar on the left side of your screen rather than along the bottom? No sorry that is no longer supported. Want to drag and drop a file onto an app icon? Hah! No sorry that 25+ year long UX doesn't work with the new taskbar. Overall Windows 11 certainly feels like a step backwards for Windows as a whole. It seems Microsoft just don't know what they want from Windows so just slap a new coat of paint on it and call it new while they struggle to see where it fits moving forward. To me it isn't backwards compatibility or native (Win32 eek!) applications that keep business on Windows but remote management. Windows may be kinda crappy from a UX perspective but it is stable and easier to manage on scale than anything else out there, in a business setting anyway. For education Chromebook's and iPad's work great due to the hub and spoke nature of schools and IT management, which is why we have seen those devices eat away at Microsoft's market there. I feel the fact that Windows 11 will release next week with little interest shows how it doesn't really matter anymore. I suspect Apple's October update to macOS with the release of Monterey will receive just as much, if not more, press and praise and that happens every year like clock work. Anyway I think I have written enough. I hadn't planned on this mini-essay when I opened this thread so I guess congratulations and thanks if you made it this far on a Saturday evening.

simonblack 5y ago

Windows has been on the wrong path since Win 7. I keep a 10-year-old ultrabook with Win 7 for the very rare occasions that I need to run some form of Windows app.

Havoc 5y ago

Netflix on Linux at 1080p really needs to happen ASAP so that I can ditch windows. Gaming is rapidly improving and browser run fine on nix…so literally just stupid drm left. Most people don’t really use much else these days.

hammyhavoc 5y ago
Don't tell us, tell Netflix.

iJohnDoe 5y ago

Microsoft, Apple, And Google are perfectly timed right now for a competitor take over. They have been for a couple years. Microsoft’s constant privacy violations with Windows 10 telemetry, their user hostile subscription pricing model on everything, horrible security vulnerabilities (and hostile bug bounty programs). Apple’s pricing, security holes, (and hostile bug bounties program), and anti-developer activities, alignment with China, running the company like a CFO owns it. Google’s complete corruption on account take downs, horrible search results (yes, I want that keyword I typed in to be included!), and privacy violations. Why hasn’t all the money being thrown around the last handful of years been used to unseat these companies?

ObamaBinSpying 5y ago

Windows 2000 was the best version of Windows ever. Windows XP and above only decreased value for the consumer... Windows-10 and 11 being exponentially worst.

aaron695 5y ago

> Cons - The TPM issue Wow, just wow, Microsoft is willing to put sales on the line for TPM, improving security. A shift for consumers to try and back down state based hacking. But now we only care if Windows looks pretty. And we are not going to upgrade a fine computer just for security. NSA, NSA, NSA, oorah. Next week Twitter will tell them Microsoft doesn't care about security and down that bandwagon we will go. People talk about Weaponized Autism, but really it's just Weaponized Bikeshedding

syspec 5y ago

A Windows 11 review without any comparison macOS?

alexeiz 5y ago

It's not possible to disable the antivirus on Windows 11. It always resurrects itself. It's annoying AF. I'm staying with Windows 10 because Windows 11 takes away user control over the OS.