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Maybe I need some convincing here. How is the "modular port" concept any different than a universal port with dongles (i.e., how Macs have been since 2016). To

Maybe I need some convincing here. How is the "modular port" concept any different than a universal port with dongles (i.e., how Macs have been since 2016). To me the fact that the port attachments are recessed is little more than a gimmick. Especially as all of my devices have transitioned to USB-C anyway, dongles/"modular ports" feel more like a stopgap measure than one requiring a permanent form factor change.

s0rce 5y ago
I think the proliferation of usb-c has finally solved the universal port issue, you can just buy a 3rd party dongle with HDMI/displayport, usb-c (with pass through charging), sd-card, usb, etc. and it works great. Meets my needs pretty well.
fossuser 5y ago
Yeah - I think Apple's approach is the right tradeoff, though I admit I think it's cool from a nerd that likes gadgets perspective. If there's enough of a market for that that they can survive that's cool, but I think there's a reason it's not the default design (that isn't some cynical one about planned obsolescence).
- Jotra7 5y ago
  Too bad reality disagrees. It's entirely about planned obsolescence because Apple knows the rubes will buy anything they are told.
etbusch 5y ago
Two things: They are replaceable when the external ports (USB-C or otherwise) wear out without the need for soldering or internal board replacement. The design of the modules is open source, meaning that anyone can design a module that fits their needs.
- olah_1 5y ago
  how does a port “wear out”? i’ve never heard of that
  - AlfeG 5y ago
    It when You need to adjust cable multiple times until connection happen, and then work very careful to not move anything. Ports sometimes are very fragile. My old laptop has only 2 of 4 USB ports working.
  - scohesc 5y ago
    This was something that was more prominent during the Micro-USB era. The little metal "tabs" on the male end of microUSB connectors would start to wear out after a thousand+ plug/unplugs resulting in a loose connection that wasn't reliable. With USB-C, the connector was designed consideration of a bunch of factors, one of which I would assume is lifespan of the end connectors - USB-c has thicker, more resilient plastic hooks built into the inside of the male plug and stronger mating latches in the female end of the connector. https://www.quora.com/How-do-USB-cables-particularly-USB-C-stay-connected-to-their-devices https://www.quora.com/How-do-USB-cables-particularly-USB-C-s...
  - magicalhippo 5y ago
    Connectors are rated for a given number of connect/disconnect cycles. For USB-A it's a minimum of 1500[1]. If your laptop has a cheap connector which isn't rated for more, and you do two cycles a day (start/end of day, start/end lunch), then you'll go through the rated number of cycles in less than two years. Doesn't mean the connector will fail right away but it might start to act up. Connectors are not forever. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_hardware#Durability https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_hardware#Durability
  - twistedpair 5y ago
    Plug it in when you get to work, plug it in when you get home, repeat for 5 years.
- ericpauley 5y ago
  Good point. For what it’s worth my last MacBook had a TB3 port physically wear out. Thankfully it was covered by warranty, but the connector saver concept is definitely compelling.
strix_varius 5y ago
I find it hilarious that we spend multiple thousands of dollars on sleek, elegant hardware and then hook up chunky plastic dongles to overcome their bad hardware interfaces. So I love the idea of these ports (agreed, they're basically "recessed dongles"). I couldn't lose them / forget them. They wouldn't take up space in my bag while I'm traveling. I could "set and forget" them to perfectly match whatever desktop / docking setup I'm using. In five years when my wireless VR system uses some as-yet-unknown hardware interface, I can swap a single component out to support it. Seems like brilliant design to me.
- EduardoBautista 5y ago
  I don't understand how this meme about "dongles" still exists. You know how I avoided using dongles? I just used USB-C cables. And for the very few things that don't have a detachable cable, I use a micro USB-C adapter. It's been several years since the release of the USB-C only MacBook Pros, this shouldn't be an issue if you put in a minimal amount of effort.
  - BiteCode_dev 5y ago
    HN bubble at work, right here. Some of my clients still have projectors with... vga ports. Then you need ethernet and hdmi of course, regularly in the corporate world or at your friends house. So yeah, dongle it is. USB-C dongle for sure, but still dongle.
    - EduardoBautista 5y ago
      There are cables for USB-C to VGA and HDMI, no dongle required. Ethernet, OK, I will give you that.
      - BiteCode_dev 5y ago
        I don't see how putting a cable in my backpack is going to be better than a dongle, and I'm certainly not going to a client for the first time then complain they don't have the right cable. Not to mention the dongle supports several ports. But you know what is better than either ? The framework laptop solution of letting me configure the port I want before going to my client.
mikenew 5y ago
I wouldn't think of them as recessed dongles. After installing them I haven't changed them out at all so far. It's more that you can configure things how you want. If you wanted 4 usb-c ports and that's all; just do that. I would love it if all my devices had transition to usb-c, but they haven't. I still occasionally need usb-a and sometimes I need an hdmi out. So... that's what I have. And if I stop needing usb-a I'll get rid of it and put in another usb-c. You could even do a single usb-c port and then 3 storage attachments if you wanted. Nobody is ever going to sell a laptop like that, but for someone who really needs storage and doesn't care about connectivity that might be perfect. If you're okay with dongles then you're probably fine. I'm not. They clutter up the workspace, occupy permanent space in my bag which is annoying, and often enough aren't around when I actually need them.
- andersonvom 5y ago
  It also goes a little bit beyond that: if one of your ports stops working (e.g. rust, water damage, etc), you can just buy a replacement port and you're back on track, as opposed to "welp, I guess I'll have to do without it..."
bo1024 5y ago
My devices aren't USB-C (e.g. headset, tablet) and I use HDMI cables a lot. So it's great for me. Turns out thanks to the modular port design it's also great for you!
BiteCode_dev 5y ago
Quite the opposite, it means you can start with plenty of usbA port, and when you don't need them anymore, switch them to usbc, without changing your laptop. It means when one port wears of, fixing it is easy, cheap, and doesn't immobilize your machine. It means you can change your port to fit an hdmi or ethernet as needed, without having the stuff coming out your laptop, all ugly and taking space on the desk.
matt_heimer 5y ago
The modular ports are my least favorite part as well. The fact that you have to buy one USB type c module just to be able to easily plug in your charger is crazy. Another just to have reachable USB port. Maybe 1 or 2 modular spots would be nice, but put in some standard type c ports and monitor connectors without having to pay an upcharge or include at least 2 type c modules free.
- CameronNemo 5y ago
  Is the "upcharge" actually significant for the USB C ports? It is like an extra $20 on a $1k computer.
  - matt_heimer 5y ago
    It has 4 type C ports, that's what the modules plug into. So the type C port module is basically a one inch extension cable. They do recommend you buy 4 so it's $80 and not $20. Having ANY upcharge to be able to have an expectedly reachable port to plug your laptop's power supply into seems like a design flaw. Unless they've done research that shows the type C port on the main board is a common point of failure and needs soldering to fix I don't see the point. I've had to clean lint out of ports but I've never broken a type C port on a computer.
    - CameronNemo 5y ago
      No the type C ports are $9 each, so it is less than $20 for two. You can reach the port without a module, but sure they could throw in one or two for free I guess. You should suggest that. I know users do not like to be nickel and dimed, and the two modules probably do not increase the BOM much. That said they may be planning for a situation where you bring your own modules or buy from a third party if you wish -- it is an open design after all. Consider the enterprise use case. An org could have a batch of USB-C modules for replacement that they source from a third party for a cheap price, and then order the laptops themselves on demand. Framework is all about reducing waste, so only giving users what they ask for is part of that.
xur17 5y ago
The main advantage is that the dongles are all built into your laptop. With dongles I have a pile of them in my bag (that takes up more room), I have to remember to carry them around with me if I'm in a conference room, etc.
paxys 5y ago
The modular port is a universal port with dongles. Except that (1) it doesn't take extra space outside of your computer, (2) it is cheaper than mainstream dongles (Apple sells USB-C to HDMI for $70 while the Framework HDMI expansion is $20), and (3) it is fully open source and you can actually print/sell your own.
- nomel 5y ago
  > Apple sells USB-C to HDMI for $70 Luckily, USB-C means you don't have to buy any accessory from Apple, and have the world of low cost peripherals at your disposal, like the $13 version on Amazon [1]. 1. https://www.amazon.com/gp/slredirect/picassoRedirect.html/ref=pa_sp_atf_aps_sr_pg1_1?ie=UTF8&adId=A00361433IK3OF4YHR41P&url=%2FAdapter-QGeeM-Thunderbolt-Compatible-Pixelbook%2Fdp%2FB07JW7GT7H%2Fref%3Dsr_1_2_sspa%3Fdchild%3D1%26keywords%3Dusb-c%2Bto%2Bhdmi%2Bmac%26qid%3D1632254361%26sr%3D8-2-spons%26psc%3D1%26smid%3DA13X8I731GDUWB&qualifier=1632254361&id=2864652438586679&widgetName=sp_atf https://www.amazon.com/gp/slredirect/picassoRedirect.html/re...
  - glandium 5y ago
    The main downside is that you don't know what you get on Amazon (and I say that as someone who bought DisplayPort cables on Amazon that turned out to have the pin 20 problem http://monitorinsider.com/displayport/dp_pin20_controversy.html http://monitorinsider.com/displayport/dp_pin20_controversy.h...).
    - chrischen 5y ago
      Usb c means i can just buy the framework one to use.
  - sbierwagen 5y ago
    And how many different $13 cables and hundreds of fake reviews do you have to wade through before you find one that works? Efficient markets hypothesis. Apple's cable costs $70 because it's guaranteed to work.
charwalker 5y ago
The modularity means you can change your workflow or peripherals without needing to find a dock or dongles long term. You can travel with the HDMI dongle in for putting a movie on a hotel TV or use with an external monitor somewhere. Maybe you need that SD card reader for most of your photo work but only on weekends or trips when you go process images immediately or need to offload them from the SD card. Regardless, the port can be what you need it to be or just a useful USB-C, you aren't tied to whatever ports the OEM thinks you'll need forever even though it may only be valued by a small number of consumers. That small number is still enough to drive sales for FrameWork. I'm interested if I need a better laptop and I sit at a desk with desktop in use almost all the time. This appeals to those that interested in more control over their device in configuration, expansion or modifications, and the various ports and IO options. I can't say I'd buy many of the USB modules (rarely would use most anyway) but the mentality is there and I so far have trust in the product. It's not meant to appeal to GAMERS or Enterprise execs, just those that want more control over their devices.
Osiris 5y ago
My understanding is that all the module ports ARE USB-C. So the dongles are just made to fit inside the laptop instead of outside.
earthscienceman 5y ago
I'll give a reply not seen here yet. I haven't bought the framework laptop (yet) but I can see the module appeal. There's all sorts of hacker-ish ideas that I could imagine stuffing in there and the fact that I don't need a dongle means they're always attached and ready to be thrown in a bag. My first idea: Framework offers a 1Tb storage module for their ports! I backup my root OS via ZFS snapshot to USB every so often now. How great would it be to have a storage port that's all the recent snapshots of your important datasets. And, the possibilities are endless. The fact that they don't change the form factor of the laptop and that they're always attached is actually a big deal.
rhacker 5y ago
Absolutely agree. If I ever had to go back to a "docking station" which I'm sure many on here have used in the past I'd be ripping out my hair. A single multi-port dongle with Hdmi, extension USB-C and USB-A makes it so that I connect 1 thing to my laptop at my desk. And you don't have to press the whole laptop on some weird device that can scrape that back of your laptop. If more people had experienced docking stations of 10 years ago they would also be excited for these dongles.
lr1970 5y ago
> How is the "modular port" concept any different than a universal port with dongles ... At least the "modular port" adapters are not dangling from the side of a laptop as the dongles do. Dongles totally ruin the esthetics of otherwise slick MacBook for me.
whywhywhywhy 5y ago
Have you tried dongles? They barely work. I beg for an age where monitors and drives plugged into Macbooks worked again without flickering and random disconnects you get with dongles.
- Grustaf 5y ago
  These are literally USB-C to X dongles. You may prefer them to be integrated, but they won't solve any compatibility issues.
tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago
What upsets me about the solution is that the whole laptop is limited to 4 ports. They don't even offer the obvious "2 in 1" dongles where one dongle would contain e.g. two USB-A ports. Many other laptops aren't modular - but they offer more than enough ports to make up for it. You need at least 1 USB-C port for charging. If you want to be able to use an external mouse and keyboard without a hub, that's 2 USB-A ports that you need. That leaves you the choice between having one USB-C port OR HDMI for the last port. There isn't even an Ethernet option at all. And you still get the potential downsides of the ports being adapters from USB-C, if I understand correctly. If you grab a Lenovo P14s, you can't swap one of the two RAM sticks (limiting you to 48 GB), opening it takes a little bit more work, and replacing some of the more integrated components is going to be harder (SSD is trivial). In exchange, you get 2x USB-A, 2x USB-C, HDMI, MicroSD, and full-sized (not flip-out/break-off) Ethernet. Plus an optional built-in smartcard reader, plus some proprietary docking port extension around one of the USB-C ports. Looking at the Gen 2, you can get that at around 3/4 of the price with a similar or better config (including a somewhat serious GPU) as long as you order on the weekend (when Lenovo's non-ripoff pricing is in effect), and you can also add a fingerprint reader and NFC if you want. The Framework laptop has upgradeable RAM, but you will have to upgrade it yourself (discarding the RAM that comes with it) if you want more than 32 GB, and no matter what, it won't ever support more than 64 GB. Is supporting at most 64 GB really that much better than a laptop with 64 GB soldered in? By the time you want to upgrade the CPU, the mainboard won't be compatible, so what's really there to upgrade?
- theschmed 5y ago
  I don't agree with most of your points, but I do (at least on initial review) agree with this: > They don't even offer the obvious "2 in 1" dongles where one dongle would contain e.g. two USB-A ports. I would have thought that by making the expansion ports slightly wider, including 2 USB-A would be possible. At my side gig running livestreams, I often end up with more than 4 USB-A devices connected, unfortunately, so with USB-C charging and HDMI, I'd need a dongle to use this device even with such a 2x USB-A expansion. - USB-A dongle for wireless mouse - External USB-A sound card (to connect the mixer board) - External USB-A camera - External USB-A flash drive to load up PowerPoints etc provided by the presenter - ... and then maybe I need to plug in my USB-A Yubikey to authenticate. Or a 2nd flash drive. That said, using a USB-C hub/dongle for cases like mine isn't the end of the world.
NikolaNovak 5y ago
I assume if all your devices are usb c you realistically have no horse in this game - and that's great. For those who have different needs than vendor provides - permanent or temporary - recessed or not, or in other words part of computer or something I need to carry/lose/forget/misplace can be a huge huge difference.
bastardoperator 5y ago
I don't get it either. I dock my MacBook and my monitor supports USB-C which also provides power and a bunch of other standard USB connections. I don't even really need a dongle anymore.
dannyw 5y ago
Different users want different ports. For example, as a photographer, I need a SD card slot. No, my workflow hasn’t transitioned to 100% USB c. I doubt it will. I will always want to plug in a HDMI monitor sometime for example. No, I refuse to use products that require me to carry and lose shitty dongles and hubs. I refuse. That’s also why I’ve never purchased a phone without a headphone jack, because I love listening to music on my Moondrops or whatever IEMs I like.
necovek 5y ago
I would say it's quite similar to having a touch device with an integrated pen holder where pen disappears in the device (so it can't fall out) and not. It is a "gimmick", but if you are frequently shuffling your laptop around, having a bag clear of dongles and "floating" stuff is a world of difference. I mean, even thinness in laptops is a gimmick (it's actually the first thing I'd do away with to get maintainability, battery life and better cooling/performance/noise — fanless, anyone?), but it sells like hot cakes.
kevin_thibedeau 5y ago
When a port is damaged it can be easily and affordably replaced.
eecc 5y ago
Being recessed means you can leave them inserted while carrying the device. Dongles significantly spoil the portability experience.
_ph_ 5y ago
The thing is, that the dongles are integrated into the laptop body. For a portable machine, this is huge. I love my 16" MB pro and do think that 4x USB-C is great for connectivity, but having to carry up to 4 dongles with me any time I move between working at home and the office is pretty much a nightmare. The built-in dongle ports, if you might call them that, are a much more elegant solution - somthing Apple should have invented (and could have sold for a lot of money). On top of that, they seem to provide even more "dongles" than laptop ports out of the box. It is also probably mechanically much more robust, if you plug cables into your dongle box instead of into the (motherboard mounted) port directly. If one of the dongle boxes breaks, it should be cheap to exchange.
skohan 5y ago
The thing about dongles is you don't always have it with you. The biggest change I noticed when I got a USB-C based mac is that I couldn't just plug it into every projector through the HDMI, so I had to start planning ahead more. Same with getting photos off of an SSD card Abstracting the ports makes a ton of sense. I have some hardware laying around - headphones, e-reader - which is perfectly good, but part of me wants to replace it just because it would be much nicer to have USB-C everywhere instead of micro usb. I could see this as something which could significantly extend the lifetime of the hardware by removing those types of compatibility concerns.
samstave 5y ago
external dongles? Apple specifically did this to extend the revenue of their boxes. I cant stand apple any longer. Currently I prefer the HP Omen - (the support from the executive escalation support team is stellar). but the idea of needing a FN dongle whenever I want to do something is FN archaic. Plus they are over-priced, bulky and are much prone to ultimate failure of either the port (from flexing about when youre on a soft surface like a bed or something. I have Two AOC USB screens that I use - so I have one laptop, three screens and it all fits into my backpack. the external USB screens are the only "dongles" I want.
crossroadsguy 5y ago
I think this kind of thinking is what keeping Apple sailing high. Headphone jack gone? Get the AirPod. Oh BT drains the battery faster of already sub capacity battery? Why don’t you have a power bank yet? And yeah, keep it on you always. Isn’t that normal? Or Apple has a shiny battery pack. Maybe buy two. Glass back breaks? Well, you gotta lose something for wireless charging. But I don’t do wireless charging. Why not? Go buy another thing. There was this TV show and there was something like “happy to comply” in that.
shapefrog 5y ago
They are just recessed dongles.
mirekrusin 5y ago
It’s not only ports, you can have ssd there for example.

s0rce 5y ago

I think the proliferation of usb-c has finally solved the universal port issue, you can just buy a 3rd party dongle with HDMI/displayport, usb-c (with pass through charging), sd-card, usb, etc. and it works great. Meets my needs pretty well.

fossuser 5y ago

Yeah - I think Apple's approach is the right tradeoff, though I admit I think it's cool from a nerd that likes gadgets perspective. If there's enough of a market for that that they can survive that's cool, but I think there's a reason it's not the default design (that isn't some cynical one about planned obsolescence).

Jotra7 5y ago
Too bad reality disagrees. It's entirely about planned obsolescence because Apple knows the rubes will buy anything they are told.

etbusch 5y ago

Two things: They are replaceable when the external ports (USB-C or otherwise) wear out without the need for soldering or internal board replacement. The design of the modules is open source, meaning that anyone can design a module that fits their needs.

olah_1 5y ago
how does a port “wear out”? i’ve never heard of that
- AlfeG 5y ago
  It when You need to adjust cable multiple times until connection happen, and then work very careful to not move anything. Ports sometimes are very fragile. My old laptop has only 2 of 4 USB ports working.
- scohesc 5y ago
  This was something that was more prominent during the Micro-USB era. The little metal "tabs" on the male end of microUSB connectors would start to wear out after a thousand+ plug/unplugs resulting in a loose connection that wasn't reliable. With USB-C, the connector was designed consideration of a bunch of factors, one of which I would assume is lifespan of the end connectors - USB-c has thicker, more resilient plastic hooks built into the inside of the male plug and stronger mating latches in the female end of the connector. https://www.quora.com/How-do-USB-cables-particularly-USB-C-stay-connected-to-their-devices https://www.quora.com/How-do-USB-cables-particularly-USB-C-s...
- magicalhippo 5y ago
  Connectors are rated for a given number of connect/disconnect cycles. For USB-A it's a minimum of 1500[1]. If your laptop has a cheap connector which isn't rated for more, and you do two cycles a day (start/end of day, start/end lunch), then you'll go through the rated number of cycles in less than two years. Doesn't mean the connector will fail right away but it might start to act up. Connectors are not forever. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_hardware#Durability https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_hardware#Durability
- twistedpair 5y ago
  Plug it in when you get to work, plug it in when you get home, repeat for 5 years.
ericpauley 5y ago
Good point. For what it’s worth my last MacBook had a TB3 port physically wear out. Thankfully it was covered by warranty, but the connector saver concept is definitely compelling.

strix_varius 5y ago

I find it hilarious that we spend multiple thousands of dollars on sleek, elegant hardware and then hook up chunky plastic dongles to overcome their bad hardware interfaces. So I love the idea of these ports (agreed, they're basically "recessed dongles"). I couldn't lose them / forget them. They wouldn't take up space in my bag while I'm traveling. I could "set and forget" them to perfectly match whatever desktop / docking setup I'm using. In five years when my wireless VR system uses some as-yet-unknown hardware interface, I can swap a single component out to support it. Seems like brilliant design to me.

EduardoBautista 5y ago
I don't understand how this meme about "dongles" still exists. You know how I avoided using dongles? I just used USB-C cables. And for the very few things that don't have a detachable cable, I use a micro USB-C adapter. It's been several years since the release of the USB-C only MacBook Pros, this shouldn't be an issue if you put in a minimal amount of effort.
- BiteCode_dev 5y ago
  HN bubble at work, right here. Some of my clients still have projectors with... vga ports. Then you need ethernet and hdmi of course, regularly in the corporate world or at your friends house. So yeah, dongle it is. USB-C dongle for sure, but still dongle.
  - EduardoBautista 5y ago
    There are cables for USB-C to VGA and HDMI, no dongle required. Ethernet, OK, I will give you that.
    - BiteCode_dev 5y ago
      I don't see how putting a cable in my backpack is going to be better than a dongle, and I'm certainly not going to a client for the first time then complain they don't have the right cable. Not to mention the dongle supports several ports. But you know what is better than either ? The framework laptop solution of letting me configure the port I want before going to my client.

mikenew 5y ago

I wouldn't think of them as recessed dongles. After installing them I haven't changed them out at all so far. It's more that you can configure things how you want. If you wanted 4 usb-c ports and that's all; just do that. I would love it if all my devices had transition to usb-c, but they haven't. I still occasionally need usb-a and sometimes I need an hdmi out. So... that's what I have. And if I stop needing usb-a I'll get rid of it and put in another usb-c. You could even do a single usb-c port and then 3 storage attachments if you wanted. Nobody is ever going to sell a laptop like that, but for someone who really needs storage and doesn't care about connectivity that might be perfect. If you're okay with dongles then you're probably fine. I'm not. They clutter up the workspace, occupy permanent space in my bag which is annoying, and often enough aren't around when I actually need them.

andersonvom 5y ago
It also goes a little bit beyond that: if one of your ports stops working (e.g. rust, water damage, etc), you can just buy a replacement port and you're back on track, as opposed to "welp, I guess I'll have to do without it..."

bo1024 5y ago

My devices aren't USB-C (e.g. headset, tablet) and I use HDMI cables a lot. So it's great for me. Turns out thanks to the modular port design it's also great for you!

BiteCode_dev 5y ago

Quite the opposite, it means you can start with plenty of usbA port, and when you don't need them anymore, switch them to usbc, without changing your laptop. It means when one port wears of, fixing it is easy, cheap, and doesn't immobilize your machine. It means you can change your port to fit an hdmi or ethernet as needed, without having the stuff coming out your laptop, all ugly and taking space on the desk.

matt_heimer 5y ago

The modular ports are my least favorite part as well. The fact that you have to buy one USB type c module just to be able to easily plug in your charger is crazy. Another just to have reachable USB port. Maybe 1 or 2 modular spots would be nice, but put in some standard type c ports and monitor connectors without having to pay an upcharge or include at least 2 type c modules free.

CameronNemo 5y ago
Is the "upcharge" actually significant for the USB C ports? It is like an extra $20 on a $1k computer.
- matt_heimer 5y ago
  It has 4 type C ports, that's what the modules plug into. So the type C port module is basically a one inch extension cable. They do recommend you buy 4 so it's $80 and not $20. Having ANY upcharge to be able to have an expectedly reachable port to plug your laptop's power supply into seems like a design flaw. Unless they've done research that shows the type C port on the main board is a common point of failure and needs soldering to fix I don't see the point. I've had to clean lint out of ports but I've never broken a type C port on a computer.
  - CameronNemo 5y ago
    No the type C ports are $9 each, so it is less than $20 for two. You can reach the port without a module, but sure they could throw in one or two for free I guess. You should suggest that. I know users do not like to be nickel and dimed, and the two modules probably do not increase the BOM much. That said they may be planning for a situation where you bring your own modules or buy from a third party if you wish -- it is an open design after all. Consider the enterprise use case. An org could have a batch of USB-C modules for replacement that they source from a third party for a cheap price, and then order the laptops themselves on demand. Framework is all about reducing waste, so only giving users what they ask for is part of that.

xur17 5y ago

The main advantage is that the dongles are all built into your laptop. With dongles I have a pile of them in my bag (that takes up more room), I have to remember to carry them around with me if I'm in a conference room, etc.

paxys 5y ago

The modular port is a universal port with dongles. Except that (1) it doesn't take extra space outside of your computer, (2) it is cheaper than mainstream dongles (Apple sells USB-C to HDMI for $70 while the Framework HDMI expansion is $20), and (3) it is fully open source and you can actually print/sell your own.

nomel 5y ago
> Apple sells USB-C to HDMI for $70 Luckily, USB-C means you don't have to buy any accessory from Apple, and have the world of low cost peripherals at your disposal, like the $13 version on Amazon [1]. 1. https://www.amazon.com/gp/slredirect/picassoRedirect.html/ref=pa_sp_atf_aps_sr_pg1_1?ie=UTF8&adId=A00361433IK3OF4YHR41P&url=%2FAdapter-QGeeM-Thunderbolt-Compatible-Pixelbook%2Fdp%2FB07JW7GT7H%2Fref%3Dsr_1_2_sspa%3Fdchild%3D1%26keywords%3Dusb-c%2Bto%2Bhdmi%2Bmac%26qid%3D1632254361%26sr%3D8-2-spons%26psc%3D1%26smid%3DA13X8I731GDUWB&qualifier=1632254361&id=2864652438586679&widgetName=sp_atf https://www.amazon.com/gp/slredirect/picassoRedirect.html/re...
- glandium 5y ago
  The main downside is that you don't know what you get on Amazon (and I say that as someone who bought DisplayPort cables on Amazon that turned out to have the pin 20 problem http://monitorinsider.com/displayport/dp_pin20_controversy.html http://monitorinsider.com/displayport/dp_pin20_controversy.h...).
  - chrischen 5y ago
    Usb c means i can just buy the framework one to use.
- sbierwagen 5y ago
  And how many different $13 cables and hundreds of fake reviews do you have to wade through before you find one that works? Efficient markets hypothesis. Apple's cable costs $70 because it's guaranteed to work.

charwalker 5y ago

The modularity means you can change your workflow or peripherals without needing to find a dock or dongles long term. You can travel with the HDMI dongle in for putting a movie on a hotel TV or use with an external monitor somewhere. Maybe you need that SD card reader for most of your photo work but only on weekends or trips when you go process images immediately or need to offload them from the SD card. Regardless, the port can be what you need it to be or just a useful USB-C, you aren't tied to whatever ports the OEM thinks you'll need forever even though it may only be valued by a small number of consumers. That small number is still enough to drive sales for FrameWork. I'm interested if I need a better laptop and I sit at a desk with desktop in use almost all the time. This appeals to those that interested in more control over their device in configuration, expansion or modifications, and the various ports and IO options. I can't say I'd buy many of the USB modules (rarely would use most anyway) but the mentality is there and I so far have trust in the product. It's not meant to appeal to GAMERS or Enterprise execs, just those that want more control over their devices.

Osiris 5y ago

My understanding is that all the module ports ARE USB-C. So the dongles are just made to fit inside the laptop instead of outside.

earthscienceman 5y ago

I'll give a reply not seen here yet. I haven't bought the framework laptop (yet) but I can see the module appeal. There's all sorts of hacker-ish ideas that I could imagine stuffing in there and the fact that I don't need a dongle means they're always attached and ready to be thrown in a bag. My first idea: Framework offers a 1Tb storage module for their ports! I backup my root OS via ZFS snapshot to USB every so often now. How great would it be to have a storage port that's all the recent snapshots of your important datasets. And, the possibilities are endless. The fact that they don't change the form factor of the laptop and that they're always attached is actually a big deal.

rhacker 5y ago

Absolutely agree. If I ever had to go back to a "docking station" which I'm sure many on here have used in the past I'd be ripping out my hair. A single multi-port dongle with Hdmi, extension USB-C and USB-A makes it so that I connect 1 thing to my laptop at my desk. And you don't have to press the whole laptop on some weird device that can scrape that back of your laptop. If more people had experienced docking stations of 10 years ago they would also be excited for these dongles.

lr1970 5y ago

> How is the "modular port" concept any different than a universal port with dongles ... At least the "modular port" adapters are not dangling from the side of a laptop as the dongles do. Dongles totally ruin the esthetics of otherwise slick MacBook for me.

whywhywhywhy 5y ago

Have you tried dongles? They barely work. I beg for an age where monitors and drives plugged into Macbooks worked again without flickering and random disconnects you get with dongles.

Grustaf 5y ago
These are literally USB-C to X dongles. You may prefer them to be integrated, but they won't solve any compatibility issues.

tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago

What upsets me about the solution is that the whole laptop is limited to 4 ports. They don't even offer the obvious "2 in 1" dongles where one dongle would contain e.g. two USB-A ports. Many other laptops aren't modular - but they offer more than enough ports to make up for it. You need at least 1 USB-C port for charging. If you want to be able to use an external mouse and keyboard without a hub, that's 2 USB-A ports that you need. That leaves you the choice between having one USB-C port OR HDMI for the last port. There isn't even an Ethernet option at all. And you still get the potential downsides of the ports being adapters from USB-C, if I understand correctly. If you grab a Lenovo P14s, you can't swap one of the two RAM sticks (limiting you to 48 GB), opening it takes a little bit more work, and replacing some of the more integrated components is going to be harder (SSD is trivial). In exchange, you get 2x USB-A, 2x USB-C, HDMI, MicroSD, and full-sized (not flip-out/break-off) Ethernet. Plus an optional built-in smartcard reader, plus some proprietary docking port extension around one of the USB-C ports. Looking at the Gen 2, you can get that at around 3/4 of the price with a similar or better config (including a somewhat serious GPU) as long as you order on the weekend (when Lenovo's non-ripoff pricing is in effect), and you can also add a fingerprint reader and NFC if you want. The Framework laptop has upgradeable RAM, but you will have to upgrade it yourself (discarding the RAM that comes with it) if you want more than 32 GB, and no matter what, it won't ever support more than 64 GB. Is supporting at most 64 GB really that much better than a laptop with 64 GB soldered in? By the time you want to upgrade the CPU, the mainboard won't be compatible, so what's really there to upgrade?

theschmed 5y ago
I don't agree with most of your points, but I do (at least on initial review) agree with this: > They don't even offer the obvious "2 in 1" dongles where one dongle would contain e.g. two USB-A ports. I would have thought that by making the expansion ports slightly wider, including 2 USB-A would be possible. At my side gig running livestreams, I often end up with more than 4 USB-A devices connected, unfortunately, so with USB-C charging and HDMI, I'd need a dongle to use this device even with such a 2x USB-A expansion. - USB-A dongle for wireless mouse - External USB-A sound card (to connect the mixer board) - External USB-A camera - External USB-A flash drive to load up PowerPoints etc provided by the presenter - ... and then maybe I need to plug in my USB-A Yubikey to authenticate. Or a 2nd flash drive. That said, using a USB-C hub/dongle for cases like mine isn't the end of the world.

NikolaNovak 5y ago

I assume if all your devices are usb c you realistically have no horse in this game - and that's great. For those who have different needs than vendor provides - permanent or temporary - recessed or not, or in other words part of computer or something I need to carry/lose/forget/misplace can be a huge huge difference.

bastardoperator 5y ago

I don't get it either. I dock my MacBook and my monitor supports USB-C which also provides power and a bunch of other standard USB connections. I don't even really need a dongle anymore.

dannyw 5y ago

Different users want different ports. For example, as a photographer, I need a SD card slot. No, my workflow hasn’t transitioned to 100% USB c. I doubt it will. I will always want to plug in a HDMI monitor sometime for example. No, I refuse to use products that require me to carry and lose shitty dongles and hubs. I refuse. That’s also why I’ve never purchased a phone without a headphone jack, because I love listening to music on my Moondrops or whatever IEMs I like.

necovek 5y ago

I would say it's quite similar to having a touch device with an integrated pen holder where pen disappears in the device (so it can't fall out) and not. It is a "gimmick", but if you are frequently shuffling your laptop around, having a bag clear of dongles and "floating" stuff is a world of difference. I mean, even thinness in laptops is a gimmick (it's actually the first thing I'd do away with to get maintainability, battery life and better cooling/performance/noise — fanless, anyone?), but it sells like hot cakes.

kevin_thibedeau 5y ago

When a port is damaged it can be easily and affordably replaced.

eecc 5y ago

Being recessed means you can leave them inserted while carrying the device. Dongles significantly spoil the portability experience.

_ph_ 5y ago

The thing is, that the dongles are integrated into the laptop body. For a portable machine, this is huge. I love my 16" MB pro and do think that 4x USB-C is great for connectivity, but having to carry up to 4 dongles with me any time I move between working at home and the office is pretty much a nightmare. The built-in dongle ports, if you might call them that, are a much more elegant solution - somthing Apple should have invented (and could have sold for a lot of money). On top of that, they seem to provide even more "dongles" than laptop ports out of the box. It is also probably mechanically much more robust, if you plug cables into your dongle box instead of into the (motherboard mounted) port directly. If one of the dongle boxes breaks, it should be cheap to exchange.

skohan 5y ago

The thing about dongles is you don't always have it with you. The biggest change I noticed when I got a USB-C based mac is that I couldn't just plug it into every projector through the HDMI, so I had to start planning ahead more. Same with getting photos off of an SSD card Abstracting the ports makes a ton of sense. I have some hardware laying around - headphones, e-reader - which is perfectly good, but part of me wants to replace it just because it would be much nicer to have USB-C everywhere instead of micro usb. I could see this as something which could significantly extend the lifetime of the hardware by removing those types of compatibility concerns.

samstave 5y ago

external dongles? Apple specifically did this to extend the revenue of their boxes. I cant stand apple any longer. Currently I prefer the HP Omen - (the support from the executive escalation support team is stellar). but the idea of needing a FN dongle whenever I want to do something is FN archaic. Plus they are over-priced, bulky and are much prone to ultimate failure of either the port (from flexing about when youre on a soft surface like a bed or something. I have Two AOC USB screens that I use - so I have one laptop, three screens and it all fits into my backpack. the external USB screens are the only "dongles" I want.

crossroadsguy 5y ago

I think this kind of thinking is what keeping Apple sailing high. Headphone jack gone? Get the AirPod. Oh BT drains the battery faster of already sub capacity battery? Why don’t you have a power bank yet? And yeah, keep it on you always. Isn’t that normal? Or Apple has a shiny battery pack. Maybe buy two. Glass back breaks? Well, you gotta lose something for wireless charging. But I don’t do wireless charging. Why not? Go buy another thing. There was this TV show and there was something like “happy to comply” in that.

shapefrog 5y ago

They are just recessed dongles.

mirekrusin 5y ago

It’s not only ports, you can have ssd there for example.