4 ms·

Being allergic doesn’t negate the lack of the second shot and what it means for viral spread and risk to others. These things aren’t being done for individuals

Being allergic doesn’t negate the lack of the second shot and what it means for viral spread and risk to others. These things aren’t being done for individuals as much as the collective. In such a group, a tiny percentage of people will lose out who want the vaccine but are unable to get it. Her inability to see the larger picture doesn’t make this “unfair” as she suggests, but rather, unlucky.

dfee 5y ago
At least we can call it what it is: utilitarianism. Now we don’t need to rehash every debate on the subject, but instead recognize the arguments for and against it.
alexmcc81 5y ago
I think you're the one missing the larger picture. One of the main selling points of mass vaccination is herd immunity to protect those that are unvaccinated - including babies and cancer patients.
- sjburt 5y ago
  When (or if) herd immunity is reached (measured by rate of community spread), they can drop the need for vaccine passports. The passports are just there in the meantime while infection rates are high.
- MisterBastahrd 5y ago
  When a third of the population is refusing to get the vaccine because they "self-educated" on Youtube and there's no mandate at all for kids to get it, then you can't ever have herd immunity.
  - mikem170 5y ago
    Yes you can. Most of those refusing the vaccine will eventually catch this and have natural immunity.
    - MisterBastahrd 5y ago
      No you can't. Not without vaccinating kids.
      - s1artibartfast 5y ago
        Kids can't acquire natural immunity? I haven't read that
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - azinman2 5y ago
      We’re seeing that people can get reinfected, so it’s unlikely natural immunity will protect you from Covid any more than the flu or a cold. I personally know of someone who got it last year, then got vaccinated, and then got it again and almost was hospitalized. This is a tricky one.
      - tzs 5y ago
        > We’re seeing that people can get reinfected, so it’s unlikely natural immunity will protect you from Covid any more than the flu or a cold. If COVID immunity ends up working like cold immunity that would be fine. About 20% of colds are caused by coronaviruses that caused deadly pandemics when they first appeared in humans. As with COVID these tended to cause much more serious illness in non-immune adults than in non-immune children. Now we all get them as non-immune children, and although that does not confer upon us immunity from reinfection it does confer protection against serious illness.
      - MisterBastahrd 5y ago
        I've had it twice, which is why I KNOW that the "natural immunity" argument from people who are too cowardly to spend 10 minutes in a drug store is nonsense.
        5y ago
- sapientiae3 5y ago
  It was a good selling point, only now it seems that vaccinations don’t prevent the spread as much as previously thought, especially the variants such as Delta variant. So it seem there won’t be any herd immunity anytime soon. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/picture-shifting-vaccines-transmission-re-shaping-learn-live/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-diseas...
- nradov 5y ago
  Unfortunately the Delta variant is sufficiently contagious that there will be no significant herd immunity effect to protect the unvaccinated. I encourage everyone to get vaccinated if they can, but vaccinated people can still spread the virus. Eventually almost everyone will be exposed. https://www.businessinsider.com/delta-variant-made-herd-immunity-not-possible-astrazeneca-developer-2021-8?r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/delta-variant-made-herd-immu...
TechBro8615 5y ago
This argument would make a lot more sense if the vaccinated weren’t spreading the virus.
- azinman2 5y ago
  But if you’re spreading it only to other vaccinated people, then they’re less likely to get it in the first place. So it still does slow the spread.
raxxorrax 5y ago
I am fully vaccinated and will not use any pass and forego business that demands it. I think the request for such a pass is unscientific and political hogwash to stay polite.

dfee 5y ago

At least we can call it what it is: utilitarianism. Now we don’t need to rehash every debate on the subject, but instead recognize the arguments for and against it.

alexmcc81 5y ago

I think you're the one missing the larger picture. One of the main selling points of mass vaccination is herd immunity to protect those that are unvaccinated - including babies and cancer patients.

sjburt 5y ago
When (or if) herd immunity is reached (measured by rate of community spread), they can drop the need for vaccine passports. The passports are just there in the meantime while infection rates are high.
MisterBastahrd 5y ago
When a third of the population is refusing to get the vaccine because they "self-educated" on Youtube and there's no mandate at all for kids to get it, then you can't ever have herd immunity.
- mikem170 5y ago
  Yes you can. Most of those refusing the vaccine will eventually catch this and have natural immunity.
  - MisterBastahrd 5y ago
    No you can't. Not without vaccinating kids.
    - s1artibartfast 5y ago
      Kids can't acquire natural immunity? I haven't read that
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
  - azinman2 5y ago
    We’re seeing that people can get reinfected, so it’s unlikely natural immunity will protect you from Covid any more than the flu or a cold. I personally know of someone who got it last year, then got vaccinated, and then got it again and almost was hospitalized. This is a tricky one.
    - tzs 5y ago
      > We’re seeing that people can get reinfected, so it’s unlikely natural immunity will protect you from Covid any more than the flu or a cold. If COVID immunity ends up working like cold immunity that would be fine. About 20% of colds are caused by coronaviruses that caused deadly pandemics when they first appeared in humans. As with COVID these tended to cause much more serious illness in non-immune adults than in non-immune children. Now we all get them as non-immune children, and although that does not confer upon us immunity from reinfection it does confer protection against serious illness.
    - MisterBastahrd 5y ago
      I've had it twice, which is why I KNOW that the "natural immunity" argument from people who are too cowardly to spend 10 minutes in a drug store is nonsense.
      - 5y ago
sapientiae3 5y ago
It was a good selling point, only now it seems that vaccinations don’t prevent the spread as much as previously thought, especially the variants such as Delta variant. So it seem there won’t be any herd immunity anytime soon. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/picture-shifting-vaccines-transmission-re-shaping-learn-live/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-diseas...
nradov 5y ago
Unfortunately the Delta variant is sufficiently contagious that there will be no significant herd immunity effect to protect the unvaccinated. I encourage everyone to get vaccinated if they can, but vaccinated people can still spread the virus. Eventually almost everyone will be exposed. https://www.businessinsider.com/delta-variant-made-herd-immunity-not-possible-astrazeneca-developer-2021-8?r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/delta-variant-made-herd-immu...

TechBro8615 5y ago

This argument would make a lot more sense if the vaccinated weren’t spreading the virus.

azinman2 5y ago
But if you’re spreading it only to other vaccinated people, then they’re less likely to get it in the first place. So it still does slow the spread.

raxxorrax 5y ago

I am fully vaccinated and will not use any pass and forego business that demands it. I think the request for such a pass is unscientific and political hogwash to stay polite.