5 ms·

I read it. Its at best unhelpful and misguided and at worst actively harmful to the stated goals. Ultimately he is advocating for a political solution for what

by djbebs 5y ago

I read it. Its at best unhelpful and misguided and at worst actively harmful to the stated goals. Ultimately he is advocating for a political solution for what he believes is an economic problem. The issue here is that the cause of the problems he wants to resolve is not an economic problem at all, but a political choice. The proposal of preventing companies from purchasing property, for example is a clear cut example. I want to be clear here, any shortage of housing anywhere in the developed world is the direct result of government policy intended to drive that shortage, not due to physical space limitations, or limitations driven by corporate greed (beyond where that intersects with politics)

istinetz 5y ago
>Ultimately he is advocating for a political solution for what he believes is an economic problem. >Three policy proposals: >A 500% tax on advertising. [...] >1% tax on the full amount of every trade. [...] How is that a "political solution to an economic problem"? What would a non political solution look like to you? Why is it bad that it's a political solution to an economic problem? If it works, it works.
- beepbooptheory 5y ago
  A non political solution would be the transition away from capitalism to a different kind of relation between labor and society. It should be clear at this point that capitalism can tolerate a pretty broad spectrum of political arrangements, from 'socialist' countries to dictatorships, and especially everything in between. You can change your frontend to be all kinds of ways, and that will create vastly different user experiences. But at the end of the day we are still tied to the backend, the infrastructure, the "business logic".
  - JKCalhoun 5y ago
    I'm not sure how you transition away from capitalism without government involvement? Some kind of "people's movement" to embrace, oh, I don't know, coops?
    - beepbooptheory 5y ago
      Well the actual implementation of it is totally separate from understanding the requirements. Its not clear, at this point, it will ever actually happen, but that doesn't itself speak to the main point, that there is a fundamental separation. and either way, you will find history is full of events where people act outside of their current political world in order to change it!
johmue 5y ago
tHe MaRkEt Is GoInG To SoLvE tHiS
bsenftner 5y ago
> any shortage of housing anywhere in the developed world is the direct result of government policy intended to drive that shortage ... or limitations driven by corporate greed And that government policy is a direct result of corporate lobbyists operating upon member of congress, while their advertising and news media partners spray the public mindset with some rational why whatever they are lobbying is good. It is either a political solution or violent revolution, because any economic solution is operating on a rigged playing field they Capitalists control 100%.
JKCalhoun 5y ago
> Ultimately he is advocating for a political solution for what he believes is an economic problem. I think the larger point he is making is that if someone doesn't do something about unbridled "Corporate Capitalism", there will be blood in the streets. Government might be the only actor capable of going toe to toe with such a behemoth.
- imtringued 5y ago
  There are a lot of people who got screwed over by the the 80s reformation of the economy away from government intervention and the strange part is that these people believe that this move is actually a form of government intervention and it was the government that is making their lives worse. So getting to an even "free-er market" will solve the problem so they keep voting that way. The free market is an empty ideology because there is no such thing in the real world. When the law and order of governments no longer applies, then we don't fall back to a fair and just utopian world free of governments, we fall back to the law of the jungle. [0] The law of the jungle involves a lot of pain and from the perspective of those living lives sheltered from pain through law and order of governments, the primary source of pain is the government. After all, governments have vast police and military forces. They have the monopoly of violence. Therefore people perceive governments = violence and no governments = no violence. If the amount of violence increases by decreasing the importance of the government then people will insist that it's the government that inflicted the violence and will want to keep decreasing the importance of the government. What they don't realize is that they will experience an even harsher reality. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_the_jungle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_the_jungle
  - fennecfoxen 5y ago
    > The free market is an empty ideology because there is no such thing in the real world Meh. If you can say that about "the free market" you could say that about just about anything. But in practice, people are able to recognize substantial free-market properties in markets that are substantially free, just as easily as they can recognize the properties of communism in systems which are substantially communist, even while Real Communism Has Never Been Tried™.

by djbebs 5y ago

istinetz 5y ago

>Ultimately he is advocating for a political solution for what he believes is an economic problem. >Three policy proposals: >A 500% tax on advertising. [...] >1% tax on the full amount of every trade. [...] How is that a "political solution to an economic problem"? What would a non political solution look like to you? Why is it bad that it's a political solution to an economic problem? If it works, it works.

beepbooptheory 5y ago
A non political solution would be the transition away from capitalism to a different kind of relation between labor and society. It should be clear at this point that capitalism can tolerate a pretty broad spectrum of political arrangements, from 'socialist' countries to dictatorships, and especially everything in between. You can change your frontend to be all kinds of ways, and that will create vastly different user experiences. But at the end of the day we are still tied to the backend, the infrastructure, the "business logic".
- JKCalhoun 5y ago
  I'm not sure how you transition away from capitalism without government involvement? Some kind of "people's movement" to embrace, oh, I don't know, coops?
  - beepbooptheory 5y ago
    Well the actual implementation of it is totally separate from understanding the requirements. Its not clear, at this point, it will ever actually happen, but that doesn't itself speak to the main point, that there is a fundamental separation. and either way, you will find history is full of events where people act outside of their current political world in order to change it!

johmue 5y ago

tHe MaRkEt Is GoInG To SoLvE tHiS

bsenftner 5y ago

> any shortage of housing anywhere in the developed world is the direct result of government policy intended to drive that shortage ... or limitations driven by corporate greed And that government policy is a direct result of corporate lobbyists operating upon member of congress, while their advertising and news media partners spray the public mindset with some rational why whatever they are lobbying is good. It is either a political solution or violent revolution, because any economic solution is operating on a rigged playing field they Capitalists control 100%.

JKCalhoun 5y ago

> Ultimately he is advocating for a political solution for what he believes is an economic problem. I think the larger point he is making is that if someone doesn't do something about unbridled "Corporate Capitalism", there will be blood in the streets. Government might be the only actor capable of going toe to toe with such a behemoth.

imtringued 5y ago
There are a lot of people who got screwed over by the the 80s reformation of the economy away from government intervention and the strange part is that these people believe that this move is actually a form of government intervention and it was the government that is making their lives worse. So getting to an even "free-er market" will solve the problem so they keep voting that way. The free market is an empty ideology because there is no such thing in the real world. When the law and order of governments no longer applies, then we don't fall back to a fair and just utopian world free of governments, we fall back to the law of the jungle. [0] The law of the jungle involves a lot of pain and from the perspective of those living lives sheltered from pain through law and order of governments, the primary source of pain is the government. After all, governments have vast police and military forces. They have the monopoly of violence. Therefore people perceive governments = violence and no governments = no violence. If the amount of violence increases by decreasing the importance of the government then people will insist that it's the government that inflicted the violence and will want to keep decreasing the importance of the government. What they don't realize is that they will experience an even harsher reality. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_the_jungle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_the_jungle
- fennecfoxen 5y ago
  > The free market is an empty ideology because there is no such thing in the real world Meh. If you can say that about "the free market" you could say that about just about anything. But in practice, people are able to recognize substantial free-market properties in markets that are substantially free, just as easily as they can recognize the properties of communism in systems which are substantially communist, even while Real Communism Has Never Been Tried™.