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> One surprising side effect of having a .xyz domain is that the mere inclusion of .xyz inside of a text message will result in a silent delivery failure for ma
by humanistbot 5y ago
> One surprising side effect of having a .xyz domain is that the mere inclusion of .xyz inside of a text message will result in a silent delivery failure for many providers.
This is wild to me. Tested it out myself and I couldn't send an SMS with a spot.xyz link to/from Google Voice <-> T-Mobile. And no "failed delivery" notice either, just a silent failure. And yet I still get so many texts that are obviously spam or phishing attempts.
- mcny 5y agoOne of the places I worked as a contractor recently, I could not get to abc.xyz on the work network. I tried some more xyz websites and none worked.
- blendergeek 5y agoI have this same problem with "obscure" .net domains. My text messages are silently dropped. The only work around I found is to not include http:// http://, just use the bare domain. Personally, I find this behavior of my SMS provider reprehensible.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- idiotsecant 5y agoIs it reprehensible only when it impacts you or is it still reprehensible when it's blocking hundreds of spam messages a day you might otherwise be receiving?
- epse 5y agoSurely there are better ways to reduce spam than blocking entire TLDs? I also think it's the silent, unfixable nature that annoys most people. Email spam goes into your spam box, where you can still access it. You can mark email as not being spam. No such luck here
- pletsch 5y agoEmail providers absolutely block email, its the edge cases that make your spam folder.
- thaumasiotes 5y ago> its the edge cases that make your spam folder. Well, from their perspective. Not from any reasonable perspective; I have a few obviously-spam emails in my gmail spam folder right now, but I've had plenty of problems with gmail refusing to deliver completely legitimate email to me.
- pasc1878 5y agoIf there was no filtering how many spammessages would you receive? I suspect any more than you see
- d110af5ccf 5y agoThose aren't silently dropped though, are they? The sending server is notified I think.
- greenyoda 5y agoYeah, there's a lot of spam out there. My employer's spam filtering software used to send out weekly statistics telling us what percentage of incoming e-mails (across the entire company) were spam. The spam percentage was remarkably constant from week to week: about 90% of all incoming e-mail was spam!
- thaumasiotes 5y agoWho cares? The only things that make it into my spam folder are obvious spam. Meanwhile, messages from people I know personally aren't even delivered at all. There is no way to characterize this as reasonable or even acceptable. Google is using metrics that are not related to whether an email should be delivered. They need to tune whatever they're doing down to the point that legitimate personal communication at least shows up in the spam folder. If a lot more spam shows up in the spam folder too, so what? A spam folder that contains mostly spam and also some misclassified personal messages is significantly better than a spam folder that contains nothing but spam because it automatically dropped your misclassified personal messages.
- blendergeek 5y agoI should receive 100% of messages from numbers I message. If my carrier wants to helpfully filter my other messages, I should be able to opt out.
- techrat 5y agoI ran into this recently even on Facebook Messenger. A friend of mine was hunting for a short domain name and I had a list of some three character .net and .org domains I recently had found that were available. Cut and pasted the list and the message wouldn't send. Narrowed it down to one. Typed just the bare domain. Wouldn't go through. (It was something incredibly benign like n17.org) Couldn't find a history on that domain name for why it would have been filtered. At least messenger responded with 'couldn't send message' but still no clue as to why... and it took me sending each domain name individually until I found the one that was failing the entire message.
- Symbiote 5y agoIf it was N26, that's a European bank so I could see similar domains being used in phishing scms.
- aaaaaaaaaaab 5y ago>and it took me sending each domain name individually until I found the one that was failing the entire message. A true hacker would have used binary search ;)
- afurculita 5y agoOr a distributed ElasticSearch
- Thaxll 5y agoYou wonder why there is any filtering on sms ...
- Spivak 5y agoBecause spam really is that rampant. There aren't that many communication systems with a small search domain of user ids where anyone can send and receive messages from anyone by default.
- maxwell 5y agoWhy not impose costs instead of filtering?
- indymike 5y agoThey do.
- SilverRed 5y agoThe latest spam method right now is to get malware on to android phones and have the actual phones do the spamming. So if there is a cost, it gets applied to random people and not the spammers. Also if there was a cost per SMS on phones these days it would be the death of SMS because no other system charges.
- Thaxll 5y agoMakes sense, but then they just blacklist entire TLD, it's a bit weird.
- kop316 5y ago...whoa, yeah same here. tried "test spot.xyz" then "test spot.com" T-mobile <-> T-Mobile. "test spot.xyz" did not send. Even weirder, I got a confirmmation that it was delivered. It looks like T-Mobile looks for ".xyz" within the SMS and will silent drop the SMS (though it will claim it is delivered). ".xxyz" works, "..xyz" or ".xyzz" does not. "xyz" works, so does ".xy".
- DaiPlusPlus 5y ago> though it will claim it is delivered I thought SMS didn’t have delivery receipts?
- kop316 5y agoThey certainly do. In Chatty: https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/chatty/-/merge_requests/786 https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/chatty/-/merge_requests/786 . Some carriers even charge for the service (!!): https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/chatty/-/issues/434 https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/chatty/-/issues/434 MMS has delivery reports too (I implimented support for it myself for mainline Linux Phones). It even has read reports, but no carrier seems to honor using it (which is why I didn't bother to impliment it). I'm not sure if Android/iOS gives the user an option for it (which may be the source of confusion).
- frosted-flakes 5y agoThere is an option to enable delivery receipts on Android (Google and Samsung). I believe it is disabled by default.
- kop316 5y agoRead reciepts or delivery reports? I'm not sure if SMS supports read reciepts, but I didn't think so. The MMS standard allows for read receipts ("MAY" not "SHALL"), I was unable to get it working, and I suspect it's due to no carrier support. I was unable to get read receipts working at all, and I suspect it's because the carrier doesn't impliment it.
- krono 5y agoBlocking of messages/emails and blanket email server/domain/extension blacklisting is the same as a postal service not delivering mail to or from a particular entity/street/town. Doing so silently and without a valid and case-specific reason should not be legally allowed. Edit: Added "street/town" to analogy, and "case-specific" before reason
- maxwell 5y agoThe FCC classified SMS/MMS as unregulated, filterable "information services" rather than regulated "telecommunications services". https://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/sms-mms-deemed-information-services-removing-them-from-heavier-regulation https://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/sms-mms-deemed-infor...
- krono 5y agoThey should really update the "Mission and strategy" chapter on their Wikipedia page [1]. In particular the part about "Protecting Consumers & Public Safety" seems horribly outdated! I will have to look up how this works in the EU and here in The Netherlands. Something to do for the weekend. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Communications_Commission#Mission_and_strategy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Communications_Commiss...
- wikidani 5y agoI really would like to see what was the legal reason behind that, I know the US has issues with gov't agencies using their opinions as law but I thought mail was constitutionally protected?
- maxwell 5y agoThe FCC just makes decisions, we're talking regulations here, not laws. They justified it with "preventing spam" and enabling competition with unregulated OTT apps. I'm glad that Twilio fought for Title II governance: https://ecfsapi.fcc.gov/file/60001324418.pdf https://ecfsapi.fcc.gov/file/60001324418.pdf Where was everyone else? As far as the sanctity of the U.S. Mail, it only applies to sealed envelopes/packages, and Congress can ban items from the mail (e.g. lottery pamphlets, spurious tokens, gasoline, etc.) https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/96/727/ https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/96/727/
- iconjack 5y agoIt was wild to me too. I have an .xyz domain, which seemed appropriate for a non-commercial math site. I'd try to send links of math experiments to friends and colleagues via SMS, so they could tell me if they worked right on their phones or not. Can't tell you how much confusion and frustration it caused that the links were simply not being delivered, though all the conversation around the links went through just fine. No error was reported on either end. A year or so ago, I did a lot of searching trying to find some explanation of this bizarre behavior, but found literally nothing. It's nice to know I'm not crazy, at least. Is there a published list of what domains are not allowed to go through?
- schleck8 5y ago> which seemed appropriate for a non-commercial math site They are used by large cooperations too. The Alphabet domain is abc.xyz. Science Corp's is science.xyz.
- mhh__ 5y agoI didn't know about abc.xyz, that's a really nice URL
- samspenc 5y agoQuite likely only investors in Google / Alphabet stock know that site and have it bookmarked because that's where Alphabet publishes its quarterly earnings. I also guess for the same reason, it only gets significant traffic once a quarter during earnings season.
- lrem 5y agoI like to think of it as Ruth's blog ;)
- GoblinSlayer 5y agoSMS has a delivery confirmation feature, my phone indicates delivered and undelivered messages, so you can tell what wasn't delivered.
- Scoundreller 5y agoIf you’re in Canada, and send an SMS containing the string “special message” to or from a Telus customer (or one of their sub-brands), it will be silently dropped. Telus is one of the big3 telecoms here.
- drampelt 5y agoI just tried on Koodo which is part of Telus, no issues sending/receiving
- Scoundreller 5y agoMake sure it wasn’t iMessage
- drampelt 5y agoDefinitely wasn't iMessage, I tried it on my Android phone
- exikyut 5y ago> Ironically, Google Voice also has the same behavior with abc.xyz. This is my new mini-favorite thing. It feels a bit like a redux of "Shirt without stripes" (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22925087 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22925087)...
- tiffanyh 5y agoI wish the Telco's did MORE filtering given the huge amount of SMS spam I get since Twilio has turned this channel into a positive ROI for spammers. (1st biggest spam channel being email, which surprise/surprise - Twilio also dominates via SendGrid)
- aquark 5y agoI have no knowledge of the ROI involved here, but would love to understand this: Twilio is 0.75c to send a text. Is it possible for a spammer to generate >$75 per 10,000 people spammed? I've no idea were the SMS spams I've got link to (not about to find out) but they are so obviously spam. We use SMS for communicating with users and would be happy to more a lot more per text to escape the 'positive ROI for spammers' territory. I'd be happy to do that for important emails too!
- mmerlin 5y agoProbably decent ROI which is why it keeps on happening! They just need one person in each 10k spammed on average, to click the phishing url asking them to pay a fake bill and then charge them $328 instead of the $3.28 displayed o the page. I received (and reported to their scam Dept) a phishing SMS yesterday pretending to be from Australia Post asking for $3.28 to release a delivery package I'm waiting for, which is most people in Australia nowadays with the current slowdown in mail delivery speed. I am only guessing that the $3.28 phishing purchase would have attempted a $328 charge on my card... but that would be wildly profitable if the input costs per successful fraud were under $100...
- callalex 5y agoHow did you determine that these messages are through Twilio and not one of the dozens of cheap unscrupulous knockoffs? This is very easily identified, and you are are slinging serious accusations.
- petercooper 5y agoRelated thing from the past.. Gmail once had a bug(?) where if you sent any email containing a URL with the domain starting "0x", it would go straight to spam. I imagine it was a rule hard coded to block the use of hexadecimal long IP URLs, but it also picked regular domains starting 0x. It was fixed a few years ago.
- ArchOversight 5y agoI own a domain starting with 0x and I spent a lot of time talking to people I knew at Google to get that one fixed because my mail would not be delivered.
- petercooper 5y agoI'm glad to hear another first hand report of this as info was very thin on the ground at the time!
- foofoo4u 5y agoA lot of systems block anything by default that isn't standard. For example, if you happen to own a domain to serve as your email that doesn't end in .com, .edu, .gov, then many systems will instantly invalidate you saying you don't have a valid email when in reality you do. A lot of companies or programmers don't seem to realize that its 2021 where we have hundreds of domain extensions to choose from.
- devoutsalsa 5y agoI had a .ninja domain for a while, and I had to contact a certain DNS provide to add support for that TLD. They were very responsive, but I still had to ask.
- SilverRed 5y agoI think this mostly applies to TLDs with more than 3 letters. I have email on a .me and a .red and I have never had anything reject me.
- kayodelycaon 5y agoNo issues with my .co domain.
- sytelus 5y agoI am pretty sure this is not intentional. Somewhere some classifier in Google has overfitted onto .xyz. They will probably fix that some day so this will not be true forever either.
- tambeb 5y agoI just tested example.xyz and spot.xyz between my Google Fi and Voice numbers and both were fine.
- pacman2 5y agoPff. That is nothing. Try to run your own mailserver and deliver a mail to a t-online.de address (T Mobile Germany). They basically only accept pre-approved providers. If your have your own domain and infrastructure you have to petition them to whitelist you. Totally insane. If you can read German, this guy who runs a shop decided to block himself all of t-online emails since they basically run email out of specification. https://blog.rolandmoriz.de/2020/09/21/t-online-blockiert-mails-fuer-kunden/ https://blog.rolandmoriz.de/2020/09/21/t-online-blockiert-ma...